F1 Winter Break
Brown: Liberty Media must persist with F1 fixes for “broken model”
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Posted By: Editor   |  04 Jan 2019   |  11:14 am GMT  |  221 comments

McLaren F1 CEO Zak Brown believes that Liberty Media should persevere with the resistance shown by some teams and continue to fix the “broken model” of Formula One.

A new-look Formula One is on the horizon with the current regulations coming to an end in 2020, and negotiations well underway for the next set of regulations for 2021 onward.

The main aims from Liberty Media are to bring in a radical new car concept, a fairer distribution of the revenue which goes to teams, and cost caps.

Whilst the finer details are yet to be ironed out, naturally there is resistance from some teams who fear losing out in the regulation changes.

McLaren’s Brown believes that it’s important for Liberty to not back down on what he thinks is in “the best interests of the sport”.

“We know change in F1 is difficult, and we also know F1 today is a broken model, both as a business and as an on track product, that is going to need to be changed,” said Brown.

“Those that are winning today will obviously feel the compromise about what is happening, and those are not winning today are going to like the plan.

“It was inevitable that Chase [Carey, F1 chairman] would bring forward a plan that some people like and some people don’t like. But he needs to move forward with what he thinks is in the best interest of the sport.

“At the end of the day, what is in the best interests of the sport in the long term is in the best interests of everyone, if people can get past the short-term compromises that they need to make. I think today’s F1, if it is stays as is, I think everyone eventually loses.

“They have been consistent since Bahrain in their vision and direction of the sport, the budget cap, and the revenue distribution.

“I know that not all the teams are aligned but I think a majority are. At McLaren we are very supportive of what was presented in Bahrain and I think the sooner we can get that on the road to implementation the better.”

New McLaren F1 car to launch on February 14th

Back to matters on the race track, McLaren have confirmed that their new car will be officially launched on the 14th February.

They are the fourth team to confirm their launch date, with the four teams due to unveil their cars the week prior to the start of pre-season testing, which begins on February 18th.

So far, Renault will be the first car to be seen, on February 12th, followed by Racing Point (who will possibly have had a name change by then), McLaren, then Ferrari.

Confirmed car release dates:

Renault – February 12th

Racing Point – February 13th

McLaren – February 14th

Ferrari – February 15th

Pre-season test dates:

First test – February 18th to 21st

Second test – February 26th to March 1st

By: Luke Murphy

All images: Motorsport Images

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1

A good informative article on subject with hard numbers and reasoning, 9th Nov 2018:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2018/11/09/f1-audience-crashes-5-on-switch-to-pay-tv/#83a18bd48172

2

CharlieW, it is a good article, not sure why you have decided to link to it though really. It’s always good to have my longstanding claim confirmed that F1 ratings have fallen because of the shift away from free to air to pay per view, rather than people switching off in droves because they hate Lewis/Mercedes/the PUs so much. This is my favourite quote from your article;

Although the total audience is down by 5%, Carey says that “excluding Italy our television viewership is up 1% year on year and our Saturday viewership for qualifying is up even more. We are especially pleased with our performance in our two key growth markets, the US and China where viewing figures are showing uplifts of 50% and 265% respectively.” It is turbocharged growth though it is understood that this is because both markets started from a small base.

3

to avoid bad race, maybe formula one can do something about hit and run, team order and back end grid overlapping.

4

Can someone please tell me how the wide cars / tyres and bigger rear wing can create a smaller “wake” behind an F1 car!!!!! The turbulent air being directed up by the wing and the fact that a proportion of it is being drawn along with the car in front creates a low pressure area which will not make downforce on the following car, so how can it follow closely through a corner and be in a position to pass down the straight?
PK.

5

The rear wing is going to be higher so it shouldn’t affect the front wing of following car too much. Most of the turbulence comes from the area around the wheels and the sides of the car.

I predict that with the mega DRS effect this year there will be so much overtaking that after a while you’re not even going to notice the overtaking anymore.

6

I’m still deeply uncomfortable about the heritage bonus system. It feels deeply unsporting for the sport to financially reward competitors over others, aside from prize money. If you look at teams like Williams or now McLaren, both have financial concerns that Ferrari simply do not have to worry about. That said, McLaren obviously are not on the bread line financially yet, but their current slump is going to continually drain resources.

Surely a fairer system can be brought in. How does it work in the Premier League? I can’t imagine Manchester United or Liverpool get a heritage payment, or do they have that structure there too?

Further, if heritage is so important, then maybe they should make moves to protect the heritage races with financial rewards.

7

Full details here:

https://talksport.com/football/376346/how-much-money-each-premier-league-club-earned-tv-and-their-final-position-180518283150/

In short, the higher up the league plus the more matches you have on TV, the more money you get. So Man Utd earned c. £150m (slightly more than Man City, who won the league), whereas West Brom earned £95m. So it’s not an uneven as F1, but it’s not some halcyon egalitarian paradise either.

Plus, the top 4 get access to Champions League money, which is why the top 4 places are so coveted – Liverpool earned an additional EUR 84m from reaching the final last year.

8

How does it work in the Premier League? I can’t imagine Manchester United or Liverpool get a heritage payment, or do they have that structure there too?

No heritage payments in the premier league, it is actually (and surprisingly) very fair. The smaller teams get around the same tv money as the big clubs, I think the figure is in the region of £120m per year. The big clubs like Man U and Liverpool will get a fraction more but only because they are likely to feature in more live games.

La liga in Spain is at the other end of the scale, Real Madrid and Barcelona pretty much have a monopoly on the league and command half of the tv money, the rest is divided between the other 18 teams.

9

For a start get rid of those complex front wings and you might see some overtaking.

10

They did. Plus they supercharged and turbocharged the DRs effect. Now the following cars will fly by the car in front.

11

get rid of drs also want the cars staying on the ground not flying

12

Hey Luke, This is the time of year when there is trouble filling up the news stream of F1. So people have there top ten drivers list, most improved, most potential, most controversial, etc. How about the top five blog posters to add to this trivia? My vote: Sebee

13

Sebees a consistent front runner each year but for me 2018 belonged to big Ken. A marmite character with the qualities of Alonso ha. Angry, tenacious, passionate, at times spiteful but also articulate and entertaining. Big Shout out to the Hamfosi too! Irritating and entertaining in equal measures!

The beef between BK and David does make me chuckle. Got to love the banter on here.

Oh and that James Allen fella used to be a pretty decent poster too!!

14

Love your work Spud. Thanks for the mention. If you cant have a bit of fun whats the point…….

15
Richard Mortimer

Actually surprised there is anyone still posting. Look at the dates over Christmas…. becoming like a ghost-town. Also, trolls not my thing…. LOL

16

@ Spud….I’ll read that again and inwardly digest hahaha.

17

Wow you guys. Thanks for the feel-good morning. Nice to be in the running. Pleasure to chat with you always, and exchange views, opinions, discuss.

I have to tell you, nothing changes my feelings about PUs, Halos, penalties – as fans are losing out in all of these topic. Nothing changes my mind about the deceptions that are fuel savings, the marketing spin, DRS…all the stuff we talk about. I feel the product suffers and fans pay for it. End of the day, if you think of Formula 1 as a magazine, all the manufacturers are doing and want to do is get the best advertising spots for themselves. And that’s unfortunate, because it then becomes a magazine not worth reading, with 17 pages of ads before you get to the index page!

opps… got off path.

What I’m saying is that none of the things that are here today in Formula 1 are truly and honestly an improvement. Maybe some can argue not worse, but I don’t see the show improving. BUT I’m going to embrace it. They’ve beaten me down with these PUs for 5 years. It’s really not that they won me over, or that I’ve submitted to like them – oh no, it sucks big time – it’s just that I don’t want to carry these negative feelings about it anymore, even if it’s just a thing.

So, I’m going to try to leave the large luggage in 2018, and just take a carry-on sized bag of feelings about this Formula 1 into 2019. I’m hopeful that we’ll have a good show. I’m under no illusion that it’s just a show anymore. I will forever remain thankful for having experienced that wonderful V10 era.

Oh, and one more think for 2019…for Schumi (Sekret Tag Buch!), and to live up to LukeC’s expectation of funniness, I’m going to aim to be 33.3% funnier in 2019 in my posts. But just not in this post.

18

I’m tempted to vote Sebee too, except recently this guy, aveli, surfaced with a whole string of the funniest posts I’ve read in a long, long time, so I don’t know. Maybe I’ll get back to you.

19

Luke

Recently ????

20

Let’s just say he turned it up to 11 with his posts recently. Before it was around 9 or 10.

21

If Liberty’s idea of a ‘fix’ is awarding Grand Prix to far flung countries with no motoring heritage, have very little interest from populations who can’t afford the exorbitant attendance prices then I fear these fixes will break F1.

I detest watching races like China where the grandstands are mostly empty, despite the best efforts of the tv director to only focus on the section where the people are. I would rather see more races given to countries where there is a hardcore support for F1, Holland instantly springs to mind.

Wether Liberty like it or not the vast majority of F1 fans are European. Just because you give a GP to some god awful far flung ‘developing’ country it doesn’t mean the F1 brand will grow in that region. Liberty must recognise that Europe is where F1’s heart is.

22

Has it been Liberty Media that has been “awarding Grand Prix to far flung countries with no motoring heritage, have very little interest from populations who can’t afford the exorbitant attendance prices” though ?

I do believe all of that happened in the latter years of the previous regime, did it not ?

23

Thing is, if you don’t go there and test the market, you will never know.

If LM are serious about new markets they need to put more effort in initially to encourage fans to try it out. Can’t fill the stands, then make it free, let people see the show, get hooked than fleece them..

24

fa cup match today between barnet and sheffield united was played in a stadium where only 10% of the seats were occupied. that didn’t stop fans from cheering to the max nor did it stop the match from being broadcast live on tv. goes to show that you are talking out of the wrong orifice about fan attendance in china.
if you don’t want to watch the chinese grand prix, it’s up to you.

25

You can’t compare a mediocre FA Cup game between Sheffield United and Barnet to a World Championship event, one of only 21 races per year.

You’re just handpicking statistics to suit your argument. Why stop there, how about a netball game that was on tv?

26

And you’ll be willing to pay a subscription to watch Barnet week in week out right?

Oh and it would be even better if Barnet were to predictably win every game against weak opponents over a 5 year period.

27

Yes, I couldn’t agree more.

Why can’t someone just admit the “Pivot to Asia” has been a disaster. And yet the likes of Imola, Brands Hatch, Estoril and Jerez just sit and rot. Madness!

28

…and add Kyalami to your list as well Gaz

29

Agree Gaz, mostly for the European aspect

Although we should’t disregard and rebut Asia altogether as a whole.

Japan and some other places have both a history (Japan and) future in F1 racing

And markets don’t watch F1, people do

Actually they are the market

30

f1 is a global sport. it has never been a european sport.

31

But the $$$ is elsewhere.

When Liberty talk of “fixing the sport”, lets be clear that their central concern is structuring it such that it generates more money for them, and that it doesn’t implode in the near term, so that the cashflows to pay off the acquisition are secure. Any improvement to the racing is incidental and consequent to these goals.

32

@ Redline…I somehow get the feeling that Zak Brown has been recruited as a stalking horse for Liberty. Liberty/Brawn have been outfoxed primarily by Mercedes and Ferrari and they know it. What is left for them other than recruit Zak Brown to put ‘out there’ the changes that Liberty purport to support to start an ‘in house’ grass fire and hoping that it’ll spread to other teams. I very much doubt if that will work as we all know how the customer teams ‘bow and scrape’ to their engine suppliers every whim…like moving over and giving them a free pass whenever they can.

33

formula one is best when driver can drive and team can fight on a one year length.

34

I don’t know as far as my memory is concern, in 2017 Mc’Laren have one of the best chassis in the business even better than Ferrari, and than they fall down to 6th even lower than Haas a customer team. They have the same engine as Red Bull have who are even Renault surpass them on their second year. They need to head down and work properly rather shouting for the changes. I disappointed how that Iconic team murdered 2 drivers (Alonso, Vandoorne) carrier.

35

Neo

A lot of people would say, that Alonso murdered his own career 🤔

36
Richard Mortimer

Yes, I think 2007 was very costly for him. Made the right move (to McLaren) but did not expect Lewis…. pity he did not take stock and think “OK, how can I make the most of this situation?” He tried to play mind-games and lost!

2 years at Renault were wasted….

Ferrari was the right move. (Only Red Bull would have been better). So close in 2010 and 12. Think 14 did it for him, as Ferrari were slow with getting the PU right.

Move to McLaren was a BIG mistake. Should have thought that one through (and not blasted Ferrari)!

37

Any car is going to look good in the corners when there is no stress on it.

Add in the extra power and torque and that supposedly great chassis would probably look more like this years car.

McLaren have been on a downward slide for a number of years. Remember 2014, they had the best engine by a mile and still could not do anything with it.

No, 2017 best chassis was just hype to fool fans/Sponsors.

38
Richard Mortimer

Jake, it is a good point. McLaren have said the car was better than this years, which might be correct!

But, I think they had a very draggy car. They upped the downforce but did not have efficiency….

Yes, it looks like they got tricked into following Ferrari’s 2012 car. It was radical, and was a dog to start with. Maybe, seeing the progress Ferrari made, they were fooled into thinking that was the way to go.

Truth is, they had the best engine in both 2013 and 2014. Looked where they ended up! Not the engine / PU, clearly.

Only just beat Force India in 2013: McLaren – 122; F India – 77

2014: Mercedes – 701; Williams – 320; McLaren – 181; Force India – 155

39

Great point,well said!

40

Finally some talk about something other than the drivers though.

We should be talking nonstop about this and other things that is vital for a credible F1.

Not to even mention fun again.

41

I fear F1 is on a path to extinction and I see only two ways to avoid that fate (and only one with the potential to retain its claim to being the pinnacle series). The first would be to go to a third party spec engine. This would no doubt lead to the departure of the big manufacturers but at least would produce a lower cost model where all teams would have a potential to win. The problem of course is that manufacturers like MB would then look to other race formulas and based on the money they would bring with them, eventually one of those series would supplant F1 as the pinnacle series, turning F1 into a European version of Indycar.

The other option would be to offer significant financial incentives to bring other manufacturers into the mix while also offering a radically new engine formula to eliminate the advantage MB, Ferrari have based on their years of experience. This might also lead those teams to drop out. But if you had entries from Audi, BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Honda etc. (all starting from the same developmental position) wouldn’t that produce much better racing? Right now there appears to be little interest from other manufacturers so Liberty and its shareholders would also have to see fit to extracting less profit from the series in order to offer up financial incentives. Sadly, I think nobody is prepared to take these steps and so the sports demise is only a matter of time.

42

f1 i getting more popular year on year.

43

for those who think that there will be a lot of changes in formula one, that is not going to happen. But, liberty media will probably add a couple of off track approach that the predecessor would not try.

44

Latest from Gazetta

NO ‘SIR’ FOR HAMILTON

Our royal correspondent explains it was not the tax dodging, nor the tall tales of slums, nor the lying to stewards in 2009.

The Queen:

“I’ll wait and see if he manages to achieve anything in a non-dominant car like the Ferrari first, then maybe I’ll think about it”

Or McLaren? “Even better,” she said.

Asked if there was anyone Hamilton should try to emulate if he wants a Sir, the Queen replied:

“Kimi, obviously”.

45
Richard Mortimer

You should not get a knighthood for succeeding in your own sport – end of story!

You should get it for true heroism (like fighting in the Battle of Britain) or outstanding service, such as Jackie Stewart’s crusade for safety.

We are getting hair-dressers et al getting honours for what? (not that I am comparing Lewis with a hair-dresser). The whole thing has been de-valued!

46

agree. Imagine giving a knighthood to the guy with the fastest car….

47

david, they can’t give either Seb or Kimi a knighthood, they aren’t British….

48

Phil

We are not amused😊

Your obviously having a “Annus horribilus”😂

49

James k
It’s P Glass the only samples he can produce are fixated with his almost fanatical obsession with LH.
It’s too the point where I reckon, he can’t function in the real world without propagating his synaptic neurological transmitters ‘Acetyl Co-enzyme A’ without having a picture of LH in his head.
Poor P G will be lost when LH retires. But I assume he’ll still be prattling on about some other driver that isn’t as white as his blond blue eyed Kimi. Steptoe Snr in the making I fear 😉

50

Phil you can add a McLaren that virtually crumbled into pieces under the speed it was subjected to by this driver who was just a little too fast

And then a Lotus built with a budget scaled down to build carting vehicles, resulting in a vehicle barely faster than one as well, still he won again against all odds.

Then the already poor Ferrari on a side-track development that Seb could not handle at all, Kimi prevailed again as always.

Against his, this and the future generation of drivers, they were all beaten in one blow

And a WDC in an inferior Ferrari

#stillthelastferrarichampion #sir

51

Try not to be too sad Phil – I should think there is a pretty good chance that Kimi will beat his team mate this season. Something to look forward too after 5 years of humiliation eh 🙂

52

Good one Phil, you really touched a nerve here. Spot on!

And so true as well, Sir Kimi it is!

53

@ChrisD

Say what you like about Hamilton, but he’s never been anyones lackey. That’s all Kimi has been these last 5 years – licking first Alonso’s boots then Vettel’s at each race. Then, miracle of miracles, Ferrari stuff up their qualifying tactics and lo and behold Kimi snags a pole for the first time since forever and all the Kimi fans are recharged and gushing about what a superstar he is. It’s weird don’t you think?

54

Didn’t Phil invite people out to a bar

@KRB

He did indeed. He also said he’d buy everyone Champagne if Rosberg won from pole in 2013 at Monaco….oops!

55

Didn’t Phil invite people out to a bar after Kimi’s win in Austin, and say he’d buy the first round? Nice things you can do when your driver only wins once every 5 years or so. If you did the same for every Hamilton win, it would start to bite pretty quickly.

56

Phil Glass – another completely random attack on Hamilton on a thread that is nothing to do with him. You’re a sad guy…

57

Nothing random here except you Paul.

You randomly appear and disappear, just like a really useless hunting dog.

A Retriever that just bolts and retrieves nothing, maybe more like a decamped Lurcher…

Although you can, stalk, follow hand, verbal, and whistle commands and scent your masters trail, you seldom find anything.

58

hamilton said he has never thought of being called sir. if he did, he would’ve trained as a teacher.

59

I believe we have to cut Lewis some slack as well.

Who doesn’t want to move to a nicer neighborhood?

Maybe just a few bocks away?

There are little boxes, with a pool and gate here and here as well,

And if you think big, Trump has now drained the swamp, so it’s ready for gentrification, and can house anyone with a little cash to spare.

60

Aveli,

That’s an excellent quote from Lewis.

But did he also say that Stevenage was so poor there were no schools and they had to walk 95 miles every day to Birmingham to find a teacher?….

61

🤣I suppose P Glass you’d be out there with your whip and running them cotton fields .
🐷You Flying Pig in Lingerie lover🐖😂😂a smear of Apple sauce P Glass?😂perhaps😂

62

Without shoes. Remember it was those winters, with snow, gloomy
and that smog making you loose sight.

Tough kids praying, the coat of your back, if you were lucky to have one. In this case just rags, but precious and dear. Knitted by the orphans frozen little fingers.

He had to stand before a street preacher and listen for hours, to get an education. It was wisdom though, street smart and life lessons that would bring him out of the horror.

To get to preach all the life lessons and wisdom he learnt along the way

63

Hahaha and the slums of Stevenage were far worse that the ‘favelas’ that litter the landscape of Rio de janeiro.

64

The slums, well not the slums.

65

The horror

66

A radical car concept means nothing without addressing the blight of Pirelli tyres, which F1 singularly refuses to do.

A more equitable split of income between the teams (including cancelling the special payments for Ferrari, Mercedes etc) is very welcome. I don’t think there’s a reasonable argument for any of them. I do think it’s funny that two of the most outspoken critics of the current F1 finances (McLaren and Williams) actually receive said payments, where would they be without them?

I’m not against a budget cap per se, but I’m against an unworkable budget cap, and I haven’t seen any serious proposals for how one would be policed better than the laughable RRA, which Red Bull and Ferrari (and possibly other teams less publicly) rode roughshod over. Also, budget caps aren’t the panacea that lots of people claim – they can entrench pre-existing advantage, and also depress wages and employment opportunities for F1 personnel, who shouldn’t have to suffer at all.

There are also also plenty of things on the back burner like classic races struggling to make ends meet, B-team proliferation, and the double whammy of F1 abandoning FTA TV along with F1’s own OTT service being abysmal.

67

It’s good to see more and more influential figures in f1 finally recognising that f1 is nowhere near as healthy as Avelli and TimW would have us believe.

However, we have to be realistic. I think if we end up with better looking noses in 2021 and nothing else gets worse, we should be grateful.

68

f1 is the 10th wealthiest global sport. it’ will soon into top 5 at it’s current growth rate.

69

I almost forgot: next year f1 cars will have two additional rain lights on the rear wing endplates.

That is the best thing to happen to f1 since Bernie reintroduced 2 meter wide cars, big fat tyres and those sexy lower and wider rear wings.

70

@ Luke C Wow….Some innovation there eh? If anyone needed proof of F1 being the pinnacle, then this is it.

71

Given that we had over a decade of one poor decision made after another I’ll take it. 😀

72

Well fans are used to living of the bread crumbs left on the floor by this sport (Read manufacturers)

Additional rain lights sounds really exiting, I bet we’ll forget all about the dominance of one team and…and…look I already forget

Happy days are coming our way

73
Richard Mortimer

Yes, Luke

I think they are going to find it difficult, though. Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. are big companies. Laying off people is not easy. In normal business, you do it when you are making a good profit (to minimise the risk). F1 does not work like that….

I still say, “Go for a split formula.” A and B – A teams have no budget cap, but have limited aero – simple. standard barge boards, front and rear wings, etc. B teams have £50M budget cap and more open aero.

You can ‘peg’ the 2 formulas depending who signs up for which. If we assume the big 4 are A teams (Merc, Ferrari, RB and Renault), then, peg the mid-field runners just ahead of Renault or even Red Bull!

Close that ‘gap’ we had last year. Pegging can be done in all sorts of ways. For example: ballast, air-restrictor, phased areo upgrades, etc, etc.

You want to see mid-field teams getting on the podium, regularly and getting the occasional win. Remember Torro Ross, Monza 2008? Force India, Spa 2009? Or, even, Arrows, Hungary 1997?

74

Some good ideas there! I’d like to see fixed aero for Tier 1 – make it as complex as you want, but you run the same configuration throughout the year, with only set-up changes and no upgrades or track specific parts. Tier 2 would be allowed in-season developments and track specific configurations. As always though, reaching a fair balance of performance through such constructs would be a huge challenge.

75
Richard Mortimer

Please see comment below about ‘frozen’ / ‘token’ systems. They made it ‘fair’ by freezing all the engines and giving the same number of tokens. Both times they got it wrong….

76

@ Richard Mortimer…So you have experience of racing to make a suggestion like that? Let me put it another way for you. When your system is adopted, after consideration by a plethora of fully cognizant F1 racing personnel ,i will retract my answer to your post ,via Redkine’s contribution.

77

@ Redline…Too messy to administer. Would never work.

78
Richard Mortimer

Kenneth

So, you have experience of racing to make a statement like that?

Where there is a will, there is a way!

It’s not difficult at all. Probably use a ‘token’ system which is reviewed every quarter (of races). So, Williams would get most tokens for this year. But, if they come back strongly (which is likely) then their tokens are reduced.

It’s actually pretty simple: a ‘frozen’ system for leading chassis / engine, ‘token’ system to close the field up.

The problem, in the past, was: the ‘frozen’ system froze all the engines = no good! You just protect the leaders that way. ‘Token’ system was given equally too! Same problem….

It needs to be a proper ‘frozen’ / ‘token’ system…

79

You mean like a budget cap or RRA? 😉

80

That’s the goal

Keep your fingers crossed

81

Luke, F1 is healthy, track attendance continues to rise, and the tv figures are as you would expect them to be given the push away from free to air. This doesn’t mean it can’t be improved of course, there are always things that could be done better. This has always been true.

82

Tim you have no idea how many viewers, what attendance figures we might have how many fans, how popular F1 would be if the “broken model” would have been fixed.

5 times? 10 times more? Everything is possible if you have visions, and I’m not talking the aveli kind, but a real goal for something really great, fun, and cedibile.

You can’t deny there is a lot of dissatisfaction among fans, not only on this site. And among teams.

Remember LM came in with an air of change. To change something for the better, since I can assure you, some were worried about the state of affairs, although you and aveli are happy with it.

But the two of you are not really enough support for a continuation of the same to just continue.

83

Chris, and you have no idea what those numbers would be if all the things you want were implemented, maybe they would be a total disaster, who knows? What we do know is, if you compare F1 with other sports, it is doing very well.

I have been watching F1 for over thirty years, and do you know how many of those years gave certain fans nothing to moan about? None. This is the reality that Liberty have to deal with, they will be lambasted by some, no matter what they do, there are always people who are happy with the product, (while recognising that it could be improved) and those who think it’s rubbish, and nothing like as good as it was in the ‘good old days’.

Give me an era and I will tell you what people were moaning about then.

84

Luke, still clinging onto the idea that engine modes give some sort of traction control effect? I get that you like finding negatives about F1, but you have simply made that one up.

In 2013 engines from three different manufacturers won races, just like this year. Williams scored five points Torro Rosso scored 33; and Sauber managed 57. Last year they scored 7, 33 and 48 respectively. Yet again Luke, your claims don’t withstand much scrutiny.

85

Tim,

None of those problems were fixed.

Traction control was replaced with engine modes.

The number of real overtakes has actually decreased because drivers now have to option of blowing past the car ahead with the DRS.

The gap between the haves and and have nots is greater than it has been for much of the modern era, and the performance gap between engines is currently significantly greater than it was in 2013 before the PUs were introduced.

I can’t a argue about the tyre war being eliminated. You’re definitely right about that, but that can sometimes work in the show’s favour like when an otherwise dominant team struggles on its tyres compared to the teams doing the chasing.

86

Luke, they used to moan about traction control and anti lock brakes making it too easy for the drivers, solved. They used to moan about having two tyre suppliers giving one team a big advantage, solved. They used to moan about a lack of overtaking, about the gap between the haves and have nots, about processional races and poor stewards decisions, a bit like now really.

87

Tim,

I’ve read your post and responded accordingly.

You’re the one who is trying to obfuscate things by saying that people were always moaning about things in f1. True, but it doesn’t change the fact that none of the problems they were moaning about have been solved, and lots of additional problems were introduced that didn’t need to be introduced.

88

Luke, you really are a tiresome person to have a discussion with, could you stick to criticising things I’ve actually said in future please? Maybe try actually reading my comments before you wade in?

89

ChrisD, the vital point is that fans always write things about how terrible F1 is. Always.

90

Tim,

Please refer me to an era were people were moaning about the engines being too loud and vicious sounding, and about not enough fuel being saved. Oh, and about how the cars were too light and too nimble, and how it would be be great if they weighed about 150 kg more.

Also refer me to an era where people were moaning about the grid girls.

91

And I’m not trying to prove it like you do.

I’m just reacting to what fans are writing and what I feel is wrong with the sport and show.

That’s the vital point here

92

So to figures are down but it’s expected so it doesn’t matter?

You really have a funny definition of health, because to me declining Tv figures, regardless of the reasons for the decline, do not indicate health. In fact, defining declining tv figures as success is indicative of a broken model.

93

@ Luke C…The fundamental economic outcomes of supply and demand are not always strictly applicable in every case. Apple is a prime example. There are variations. Those variations are basically linked with absolutes, like, a price increase can be positive however it is dependent on levels of increase. Small incremental increases can be acceptable if implemented is an intelligent manner. Increases can also be positive if the value of content is increased at the same time, the VFM effect. The reason why numbers have fallen are simple to understand in the case of F1…value of content is questionable and the price move from zero to substantial is a level too high.

94

Luke, a fundamental principle of business is that if you invrease your prices, then consumption will fall. An extreme example of this would be charging money for something that used to be free, as F1 has done. Those tv figures were ALWAYS going to fall, no matter what happened on track. If we had a grid with 40 snarling V10s, a different winner every week and 500 overtakes per event, then tv figures would still have gone down.

95

Again, Tim, it depends on the number of people remaining.

Obviously there is only so much that a fan is prepared to pay to watch, so if you’re left with a very small number the show becomes unsustainable.

96

Luke. Unless the people remaining are paying!

97

I know how it works, Tim. The problem is that when the number of people going, exceeds the number of people coming, the sport becomes unsustainable.

98

Luke. I don’t doubt that you are the only one, that’s kind of the point I’v Been making all along isn’t it? Lots of people used to watch Grand Prix when it was free, but now it’s expensive, only some of them do. People have always come and gone, and always will.

You go to other F1 forums? Which ones? Sounds like a lot of time and effort for someone who doesn’t like the sport and doesn’t watch any of the races.

99

Tim,

I’m far from being the only one not motivated enough to buy a subscription. I’ve spoken to countless people on other forums and in YouTube comment sections who have switched off shortly after 2014.

I have two cousins who started to watch every race religiously in about 2007, after I showed them some f1 footage, and they switched off completely in 2014. They tell me they don’t even bother with the 1 hour free-to-air highlights, or even the 7 minute highlights on YouTube. As far as they’re concerned, there is no more F1.

100

Luke. I doubt you would make that much difference to the figures. What if Lewis had won just as many races and championships, would you still be shelling out?

101

They wouldn’t have gone down by as much as they have, because I would be subscribing, instead of not.

102

They need to get the fuel and tyre ‘saving’ balance right, as yes it has always been a part of F1 but never to this extent. It is too much. Bottas’ comments says it all where he claims in some races they’re literally just cruising around.

103

NickH, I would go along with that, the balance needs adjustment, but the tyres have much more to do with it than fuel saving, which is what the original complaint was.

104

So what your saying is nothing will change?

I think technically, nothing will. But I hope they get the budget cap passed and manuka ERS deployment. There is also still a chance Liberty will shoehorn a non-PU engine spec in there, like WEC has. They managed to pass this 2019 aero change thing. Did you see the F1 video? Wider taller rear wing and 20mm increase in DRS opening.

105

No, I don’t see anything fundamentally changing. They painted themselves into a very tight corner in so many ways, and it’s going to be very painful and very difficult to extricate themselves from the resulting mess.

The super, improved DRS effect is not surprising given that the quality of races is now determined by the number of overtakes, rather than the quality of the battles and the quality of the competition.

106

Luke I bet they will take away the DRS, but not the way we’d expect or hope for.

Soon enough they will need a constant DRS, then have the whole rear wing flip at certain points. Let’s call it the blowhole, well we need a concept name.

Operation overtaking successfully accomplished.

This can be read and interpreted both literally and figuratively.

107

So the aim is basically to increase the number of overtakes. So with the new turbocharged DRS effect the number of overtakes will probably double and aveli will then cite this increase as evidence that f1 is now better than ever before.

The fact that those overtakes basically consisted of one car driving neatly and effortlessly past another, as if the car being overtaken blew an engine, will be conveniently omitted.

108

It’s no more surprising to hear Zak talk about wanting change than it is to hear Toto say things should stay the same. If Honda do finally ace the PU regs and Red Bull start winning again, then expect a complete 180 from Horner on the subject! This is how it is, and a good reason for Liberty to ignore what they all say, none of them think beyond their own teams, it just isn’t in the nature of hyper competitive people to do that.

I don’t think anyone believes that Ferrari will leave if the regs change, or that Red Bull will go if they don’t, Liberty have to do whatever is best for the sport, and if removing the mguh is the best thing, then that is what they should do.

109

I agree, no one will leave. Liberty should just get on with it but I doubt they will.

110

Nick, they aren’t idiots, but they have to look at every angle. The truth is the removal of the mguh was mooted as an aide to drawing more manufacturers to the sport, but none stepped up. This has left them in a spot, the existing teams will say there’s no point getting rid of something they spent a fortune on.

111

That’s a no-brainer. But that’s why we need to get some rational decisions done for the sport/show, not only ones promoting a few manufacturers Pr-campaigns

112

I actually agree with you for a change. The planets must have aligned in a most unusual way.

113
Clarks4WheelDrift

Fair point Zak, took a while to come out and say it though.

I’d like to know the opinions of all other team bosses, either agree or disagree.

I suspect the score will be 8-2 to agreeing with broken PU-F1.

That is assuming the customer team bosses are asked prior to being told how to vote by their works team PU supplier.

Also, fair point Sebee about “F1 media pool isn’t reporting on it as often as would be expected.”

114

Clarkes, maybe 7,3 if Sauber do as they’re told….

115

Seriously, like there was a meeting about “negative reporting” about Formula 1.

And I have little doubt this actually happened.

116

how is f1 described as a broken model when the number of fans are increasing at this rate? the idea of f1 is to get people to watch and more people are watching now than ever before.
all that being said, it is unfair to have a thousand people competing against 400.
Liberty media should therefore focus and ensuring 800 people compete against 800 others first. after that they may introduce their budget caps and equal financial distribution models. the main issues in f1 now is the differences in the number of employees in each team. it’d be fairer if the money was distributed equally nor matter where each team finishes and teams can keep all their sponsorship money. that way prior poor performances will not have such a drastic influence on future successes.

117

Fans are dropping off like crazy aveli. Were you being sarcastic when you said fans are increasing?

2019 is going to be brutal. Wait till you see what going behind pay wall does in the UK to world wide figures. I predict 9% decrease to WW F1 numbers and I’m basing this off of Italy going to pay wall in 2018 and taking WW F1 numbers down by 7%. Ha ha ha…WWF1!

118

Sebee. ‘Fans dropping off like crazy’, a source for that claim please.

“2019 is going to be brutal” every year you predict a collapse, and every year it doesn’t happen….

119

When you have several hundreds of millions of fans that have switched off and no longer following F1, then its completely fair to say that the fans are dropping off like crazy!
And that is what has happened to F1 over past 10 years and the trend continues to this day!
We have today less than half of the fans that F1 had 10 years ago.
I have repeatedly linked to official and recognized sources pointing this out with hard numbers. So will no longer debate any further your continued lies about this not being so. No matter if we now have several pay tv options which may discourage some fans to pay up. If the F1 was worth paying for, the fans would still be here.
I have repeatedly linked to media consumer research that clarify that the paywalls are max cause for half the drop-off of fans. The remaining is due to the predictable and boring ‘show’ that the F1 circus has become.

120

Little analysis below TimW.

I think 2019 is going to be really telling. Will fans come back to see this halo car? Will they have decided that sound, engine modes and now losing sight of drivers for more than 50% of the time is just not work the price of admission?

We’ll see. 2019 – no where to hide. 21 races, just like 2018, and of course now 4M fans have seen the halo car in 2018. What will they decide about the product? We’ll see I guess.

…then there is the whole UK going behind a paywall debacle. That’s going to hurt ratings TimW, no doubt about it.

Look, I don’t want it to be so, but the product is making this happen.

121

And the decline has just been confirmed to have continued through 2018.
@aveli, the tv viewer figures definitely count, as huge resources spent to make them accurate as they determine the price tags that Liberty Media can quote to the different bidders to show their content and advertisers to promote their stuff through the same. These statistics are produced using internal controls and very large populations as source for all the stakeholders to be comfortable and trust the numbers are correct. Also the F1 teams are paid dividends of the total numbers of these and the income they generate for Liberty and sponsors.

122

Oh my goodness TimW. Can you try not to be difficult for difficulty sake in 2019? You have it in you, I believe it. I am trying to be gentler here, hope you’ve noticed.

Italy going to pay TV caused a 7% impact to world wide TV figures in 2018.

Extra GP caused a significant drop to average GP attendance and resulted in negligible total increase at best.

Ahead of us in 2019, 4m fans saw the halo in person. Will they come back to see it again? I have a feeling many won’t. I wouldn’t.

UK is going to pay wall, that’s going to hit TV hard.

Big hits. Should not be happening. And that’s why it is crazy!

123

Sebee, so you have no source for the ‘fans dropping off like crazy’ claim? Doesn’t surprise me. It doesn’t surprise me that you have decided the fans won’t come back after seeing the halo either, you said the same thing about the engine noise, and they came back in record numbers! Do you really think the people packing out those grandstands last year hadn’t already seen the halo?!

124

here are the numbers of people who actually paid to attend.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-attendance-figures-hit-four-million-in-2017.A1haq5GkLe6SKsyya22Ia.html
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-race-weekends-attended-by-over-four-million-fans-in-2018.lILWTUMmCkWAAoGE4aYGo.html
tv figuures don’t count as they are a guess
f1 is the tenth richest global sport, it is at no risk of anything.

125

aveli,

Please, very important to have apples to apples.

I know memories are short, but 2017 was a 20 race season, and 2018 was a 21 race season, so right there you have 5% boots in available seats.

If you look at your link, 2017 reports 4,071,400 attended for the 20 races. That’s 203,570 per race weekend average.

If you look at your link, 2018 reports 4,093,305 attended for the 21 races. That’s 194,919 per race weekend average.

I don’t know how your math looks, but to me this looks like less fans attended by single digit percentages. And that 5% increase in races in 2018 resulted in only 21905 extra fans attending it. I mean, I could easily and logically spin it that way. The extra Grand Prix added in 2018 was attended by only 21905 people that weekend.

I could also lay this at the feet of the halo.

I’ll tell you what, 2019 is going to be INCREDIBLY telling aveli. I mean, those 4M fans in 2018 now have seen what the halo does to their enjoyment of Formula 1. Are they coming back? Hmmm…I guess we’ll see, right?

126

Agreed, aveli’s and TimW’s cherry picking of the numbers is despicable!

127

Sebee. Read the article again, and weep.

128

@sebee completely agree. 2018 was the first year as promised in 2017 on this forum that I will not watch a single F1 race. Having been through the withdrawal symptoms over the past 12 months, I am now thankfully cured. All subscriptions cancelled not a dollar invested and all the better off for it. This comes from someone that has spend a huge amount of time and a small fortune to consume the sport for 30 years.

I am not alone.

129

Why isn’t it the number one

You really aim low, don’t you.

I guess Lewis is the number 10 best athlete, sorry God in the world, by your numbers at the moment.

If you count the F1’s best days you should put a few, in F1, in front as well.

Back to the abacus again aveli

130

how is f1 described as a broken model when the number of fans are increasing at this rate?

Because they aren’t increasing. Track attendances, fine, but overall viewing is down.

131

NickH, down in Brazil since Felipe quit, and down in Italy since they switched from fta to ppv, but up in many territories.

132

Why do you keep posting those manipulating lies, when already proven wrong in numerous previous postings on same subject, where we have quoted reliable sources on data?
Total global viewership has declined – end of story !

133

TimW, the total global F1 viewership has continued to drop, incl again after 2018 season, so now for 10+ successive years. So why you try and make it sound any different? Your continued manipulation is shameful!

134

Comment addressed to Chrisd is intended for CharlieW, apologies.

135

Chrisd, because I haven’t been proven wrong at all, what normally happens is somebody will say something about tv ratings, and give their own made up version of why it happened, I prove them wrong at which point they go quiet, only to pop up a week later making the same claims!

Give me a claim that I have made, and I will back it up. Heres a link about tv ratings falling by 5%, it explains all about the switch from fta to ppv in Italy, and also talks about a 1% INCREASE in the rest of the world despite the inevitable fall in Brazil which is F1’s biggest tv market. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2018/11/09/f1-audience-crashes-5-on-switch-to-pay-tv/amp/

136

how much success have you had running any business?

137

Quite a lot, stay in school and you might own a few like me one day.

138

Haha thanks James and Kenneth. Surprisingly the recipient hasn’t responded.

139

@ NickH…I have awarded you the ‘ears’ for that riposte. Well done although i’m afraid it will go over the head of the intended recipient haha

140

NickH

I suppose ones got to say “touché “ to that reply😊👍

141

Aveli, you really need to do something about those visions of yours.

142

did you mean to say “visions”? or are you still looking to see?

144

Luke I believe he spent the Christmas in the looney bin, stories started to emerge from there just after the holidays.

The visions started to ramp up away from the keyboard it seems.

The best may be, just not to upset him, this might be his “happy place”.

145

What I want to know is, what value does a casual viewer have who is watching on free to air TV?

Sure it makes the numbers look good, but how much is that worth in money terms. OK so you can argue it encourages sponsors, and that’s a fair point, but most of the sponsor money goes to the teams directly. What doe LM get out of it, and is it worth more than selling the TV rights for a large wad of cash?

PS

I pay a subscription to watch my F1

146

what are you, ignorant? f1 is a business and liberty media have access to all the numbers. if the business was failing and at risk of going broke, they’ll do something about it. as it stands, business os booming so why should they want o ruin things by making any of those drastic changes you propose?

148

The Formula One Group’s revenue fell in the second quarter of 2018 compared to the previous year, meaning all 10 teams’ income will again drop as a result.

Overall revenue for the group fell 5% in April-June compared with the same period last year, from $616million to $588m.

The slice of the pie shared by the 10 teams fell 7% from $330m to $307m, meaning they earned $23m less between them during the quarter.

F1’s operating income was also down 69% from $45m to $14m.

aveli, these are not statements representing a booming business. They are however the tough reality and the statements made by Liberty Media themselves.
I wish for all of us fans of F1 that we will start to see a change to positive in 2019 compared to now these last 10+ years negative trends year over year for our sport.

149

Charlie, you really need to learn to read the articles you link to….

150

They are doing something about it. At least trying to.

By the time a business is failing and about to go broke its too late. The trick is to be able to read the early signs and forecast how they will affect the business a year, 5 years, 10 years down the track. And there are already signs that f1 could really feel some serious pain a few years from now, hence the attempts to affect changes.

151

Ross Brawn?

I really had put some faith in him being able to fix a few of the broken bits and bobs in the model.

Now I can see that it was more like wishful thinking on my part.
First of all he have no mandate to force anything, nor does LM, it seams. Maybe they could if they put up just a little fight to save their investments.

But Brawn on the other hand lead the most (after the now ongoing Mercedes domination) thus far in the history of F1. Together they his team and Merc have won almost every championship since 2000. Is it 13 out of 18, I’ve lost count.

Does he really understand the value of making a significant change to the whole broken model?

Well probably, but he’s one the the other guys really, isn’t he? Ferrari and Merc mostly. Whatever roll he has now, and Liberty are paper tigers as BK said in his post. Have to agree on that.

152

Ross and a few other chaps have achieved something very remarkable. They are trousering substantial salaries from Liberty for talking up a few ideas that for the most part; for the time being at least, have very little chance of making more than cosmetic changes. Now that I think is quite clever!

153

No doubt Ross is smart and understands the sport better than almost anyone. But don’t forget who is paying him and where his interests are. I’m not sure that there is a great alignment between what Liberty (and Ross) want, and what the the fans wish to see.

154

@ Redline….It appears to me that there are many underlying issues at play here but there is one that i alluded to in another thread a few weeks back. Brawn does not take being beaten lightly. He was outmanouvred when he led Mercedes, by Wolff and lauda. He has publically acknowledged that. he was forced out. Now, since he has re entered F1, he has a chance to rectify this slight on his professional status, by taking on the might of Mercedes, and to a lesser degree Ferrari, to stamp some authority on the future of F1,. To date that has had minimal success and Mercedes have hammered him. Now i might be totally wrong but after reading Brawn’s book, i am of the opinion that there will be more to come on this issue but we are not going to see the cheaper, faster, louder product that a helluva lot of us passionately wished for.

155

Agree on this reline.

The alignments go in many different ways. Way to many at times

To often against the fans though

156

Ross hasn’t done much so far. Although it was always about 2021 for him. Ross did get his good pall back into official F1 capacity. That’s right, one of Ross’s first moves was to give Pat Symonds a job writing official F1 regulations. That’s after Pat’s lead involvement in Crashgate. It is unbelievable that Pat is wearing an F1 shirt. That he’s involved in F1. Unbelievable. I mean, some things are unforgivable. Perhaps some quiet consultant job, but to dress Pat in an official F1 shirt?

157

Sebee, Brawn may not have wanted to engage Symonds at first, but maybe he found all other applicants had their hands deeper in the dirt one way or another…..

158

Defrauding the 2008 Championship is pretty deep. Not sure anything gets deeper as far as fans are concerned.

159

Says a lot doesn’t it?

160

Give Ferrari the heritage bonus only if they win the WCC. That could give some incentives for them to let both drivers fight it out.

Maybe they can afford loosing that money anyway though. Merc on the other hand can easily take both championships, thus far, and probably into the distant future.

Wait that could do the trick with all the teams, just tweak it a little bit for the non heritage teams.

161

At least now they can concentrate on their own business rather than worry about Alonso’s disintegrating one, and al that came with it. Destroying Indycar, destroying Stoffels career (Merc clearly sees his abilities though) and the rest of the b**l that came with it.

Make a decent car, then complain about the engine. Copy RB if you have to, or if you can.

One hint guys, high rake.

162

Zak Brown is still the point man for Motor sport Media, right? I think I finally understand what an advantageous position that could be to control that while being team principal.

Anyhow, what Zak Brown is saying, we know it to be true. What’s fascinating about it is, that even though it is true, the consolidated F1 media pool isn’t reporting on it as often as would be expected. Either that, or that type of reporting is only behind a paywall.

I have to say I did buy an F1 magazine in December, and beside being offended once again to see Pat Symonds with an F1 official shirt and having an official role, the articles were enjoyable and didn’t let me comment either, so there is that extra time saved.

163
Richard Mortimer

Sebee

What is that about Pat Symonds? You saying he should have such a role after ‘crashgate?’ If so, not so…. he’s paid the price.

In the west we have a hugely important principle: Innocent until proven guilty. Hand in had with that is: the punishment fits the crime.

Plus, I think PS redeemed himself with his 2014-15 Williams cars.

164

I hear your point about forgiveness and redemption. But he needs to redeem himself professionally elsewhere. At this level, the type of indiscretion he pulled off is simply not forgivable. I can and am willing to forgive him on a personal level, but he doesn’t get to play the F1 game anymore.

2014 and 2015 Williams was not his redemption either. That was Toto’s wife being the reserve driver at Williams and Toto giving Williams the engines. If memory serves me right, Toto also had ownership interest in Williams during this period.

165

Indeed Brown is still their chairman!

They fully control the following:
Motorsport.com
Autosport.com
Motorsport.tv
F1 Racing
Motor1.com
Motorstore.com
MotorsportImages.com
BookF1.com
InsideEVs.com
FerrariChat.com
Autoclassics.com
RideApart.com
MotorGT.com
Motorsportjobs.com
Motorsportstats.com

Regarding Pat Symonds, he was also given the job of writing the technical insights in the F1 magazine when he was banned from track/team employment. The nepotism is strong…

166

How can such an individual be trusted?

How can you operate with him around that doubt always in mind?

I don’t get it.

…there are tons if other peoperties motors port owns.

Pat had a column in Dec. Issue I bought. It repulsed me. Honestly.

167

Oh…there was a James Allen article in that issue too about Nam GP, so he’s writing somewhere! He’s alive! He’s been spotted!

168

Zak Brown certainly is an interesting character. He does come across sometimes – especially in Europe – as your typical fast talking, abrasive, hustling Los Angeles man prone to exaggeration and embellishment, but when he says he believes Fernando Alonso is the best racing driver he’s ever worked with, he’s being completely genuine.

Have to say, it’s good to see Jeremy Clarkson back on prime time British television. I know Jezza’s a Big Ape, but his enthusiasm and passion for all things automotive along with James and Richard is an inspiration to the rest of us – he’s never lost the simple thrill of driving a powerful machine to it’s limit.

169

and didn’t let me comment either

Where do I subscribe?

170

Check the website, they will gladly take your subscription money Andrew!

171

Liberty are a Bunch of Paper Tigers !
They will not mess with the F1 cash that keeps on giving !! Too afraid of the big 3.
Plus I wish they stop thinking it’s NASCAR or Indy !!
This is F1 a brand that is way way above some USA Razzmatazz Red Neck Moonshine bell jar burn out !!

172

BK, I point out again, there isn’t much freedom that Liberty has. They are trying to add value to the events with concerts and some sparkles. Not to everyone’s taste, but at least they are trying something.

173

No that honour goes to Mercedes and to a slightly lesser extent to Ferrari at the moment.

174

@ Sebee…’but at least they are trying something’. A sprinkle of fairy dust and you give them plaudits!! Name one thing that Liberty has done that is an ‘improvement’? Nada, nada, nada. Liberty are nothing more than a bunch of ‘carpet baggers’ that really have no in depth understanding of how to fix the broken wheel. Brawn has been viciously mauled by the manufacturers and Torn Britches is simply a joke with his marketing mumbo jumbo. What’s left….PJ Barnum and his ‘el grande moustache’?

175

Mr. El Grande Tash 😂🤣
Has a Joe Weider ring to it too.
I expect him to carry a few ‘old iron ball Dumbbells’ and a tattoo woman with a beard and a wolf child at the next FIA meeting Kenneth.

176

@ BKF…and i think that, collectively, we should all have a pretty good time in ’19.

177

Happy New Year Kenneth! Hope we have a good year of racing ahead of us…

FWONK’s under-performance compared to all three market indices since Jan-17 speaks volumes about Liberty’s performance at the wheel. Brawn, Bratches and Carey’s words are nothing but window dressing. If they don’t deliver anything substantive this year, the market will punish them, and heads will eventually roll.

#F1nowheretohide2019

178

@ Redline…and very same wishes back ‘at ya’ So how do you feel about the demise of Arrivabene? For a while there it seemed as the popular conception was that Binotto was out.!!! Interesting to note but i must admit i always thought that Arrivabene was a fish out of water in many respects. I very much doubt that he will be seen back anywhere in F1. Binotto is one very smart fellow and hopefully he will be more successful than his predecessor. Maybe there will be some decent racing in ’19…. for a change.

179

However the model is broken, in shatters!

For both parties.

180

Chris D
Good point 👍
But…
Have you recently been watching old episodes of 1970s KungFu series😉?
The one where Grasshopper walks on Rice Paper, while seeking wisdom from a Shaolin Elder? The elder said something similar.
I’m expecting the following in your next posting 😁
If tree falls in a forest….
Sound of one hand clapping….
A stream never flows upwards….
And
Orange Panda Trump is not from Chhinnnaaaahhh! 😁

181

BK Flamer, I must have missed that episode, or most probably I fast-forwarded the VHS tape.

But the episode I watched was the one where the Shaolin elder was blind, but thought that he could see

Was that something similar to what you’ve already posted, and can be expected to continue?

182

Yes the blind monk.
But it was the episode where he had a flash back, while drinking water from a horse trough in America, on run from the Emperors Royal Guard .
Flashback…He was a few months away from his 101 Shoalin attacks initiation, in the Monastery Labyrinth. He could walk on Rice Paper without leaving a foot print. The Blind Master had a flash back when Grasshopper was young. The first time he crept up on him … “however lightly you tread, even a grasshopper can hear you approaching young Caine … remember… however a mirror is broken it shatters…but first you hear is the sound !”
That episode .
But yes you nailed with the blind monk Chris D👍

183

It’s really nice that we can share such precious reference points like that BK👍

Keep it up, just don’t loose your way in the zen maze😀

184

One can see that Brown takes an interest in current affairs and is worried about how they appear right now.

McLaren is at the wrong end of the stick at the moment.

But will he be taking responsibility for the more McLaren related failures recently.

What will he say about Honda if they will be next years winning machine. They already had a decent one this season. Even if they are not the next wonder, they, McLaren, still closed the only door, that may lead to any prospect of winning, anything.

But of course, the fanboy he is, he let his ambassador, the self proclaimed Last Samurai make the talking.

Makes sense since he’s proclaimed samurai skills should entail the deepest knowledge about this honorable and ancient high culture.

But no. The skills reached as far as proclaiming something about an GP2 engine, though being a PU, it didn’t matter.

If this was actually in the ancient era of the proud and honorable Samurais. Harakiri would have been the only option, for the poor self proclaimed Samurai inquisitor, more reminiscent of the inquisition than a proud warrior.

Now it looks like the whole team needs to contemplate the same strategy. Harakiri.

185
Clarks4WheelDrift

“What will he say about Honda if they will be next years winning machine”

That’s the funniest joke I’ve heard in a good while.

186

Honda already facing issue with the (Better than Renault) Engine vibration at its Peak, Oh boy are we going to see Newey design car with Verstappen running behind Sainz Jr. 😀

187

Don’t we all need something to laugh about in F1 nowadays?

Except for McLaren and their fans though, as it stands.

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