Verstappen wins in Mexico, Hamilton becomes five-time F1 champion
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Posted By: Editor   |  28 Oct 2018   |  9:45 pm GMT  |  973 comments

Red Bull’s Max Verstappen took his fifth Formula One victory at the Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez ahead of Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen, whilst a fourth place for Lewis Hamilton was enough to confirm the Mercedes man as a five-time world champion.

Fired up from his qualifying defeat against team-mate Daniel Ricciardo, Verstappen got the jump on his colleague at the start and drove a measured race to take his second victory of the season, and his second at the Mexican Grand Prix.

This fact alone was enough to secure Hamilton his fifth world title – a feat only previously completed by Juan Manuel Fangio and Michael Schumacher – as Vettel’s only hope of continuing the contest was to win in Mexico.

Instead, the championship runner-up could only take second place as the Ferraris profited from much better tyre wear than their Mercedes rivals.

Ricciardo was on course for a podium after going against the grain and trying a one-stop race, but mechanical issues forced him into late race retirement from second place.

Kimi Raikkonen completed the podium, whilst Hamilton and team-mate Valtteri Bottas took a distant fourth and fifth after nursing their tyres in the later stages of the race.

“It’s a very strange feeling right now,” said Hamilton after the race.

“Firstly, I want to say thank you to all the fans here for really making Mexico a special Grand Prix. Secondly, I want to say a big thank you to my team.

“What I said on the radio was that it wasn’t won here, it was won through a lot of hard work throughout a lot of races. I’m so grateful for all the hard work back home, for all our partners, for everyone that’s been a part of it, and ultimately Mercedes.

“I’ve been with Mercedes since I was thirteen, so to complete this… it’s an incredible feeling. Very, very surreal at the moment.”

At lights out, Hamilton was the man to get a mighty start, passing the slow-starting Ricciardo straightaway and challenging Verstappen into turn one.

With the Red Bull on the inside line, Hamilton didn’t attack too hard and slotted into second place. Bottas initially gained a place on Vettel and was challenging Ricciardo for third, but fell back to fifth after losing out to Vettel on the exit of turn five.

Further back, Esteban Ocon made contact with one of the Renaults and damaged his front wing, with the dislodged piece finding it’s way onto Fernando Alonso’s car, which retired only five laps into the race, bringing out a virtual safety car.

With Hamilton reporting high tyre wear – and Ricciardo running close behind – he was the first of the front-runners to pit on lap eleven, discarding his ultrasofts for supersofts, with Mercedes choosing to double-pit and bring Bottas in on the same lap.

Red Bull responded by bringing Ricciardo and then Verstappen in for supersofts in the following laps, preventing any change in positions. The Ferraris stayed out for a few laps more in a bid to alter their strategy, with Vettel and Raikkonen temporarily running first and second. However, when their rear-gunner was passed by Verstappen, Hamilton and Ricciardo, the pair pitted (lap seventeen).

Verstappen had gradually extended his advantage to eleven seconds over Hamilton by lap thirty, who was again reporting that he was uncomfortable on his tyres and only three seconds ahead of Ricciardo and Vettel.

With Vettel on his fresher tyres now posing more of a threat, he was putting the pressure on Ricciardo. His progress was hampered by a virtual safety car, deployed for the stricken Carlos Sainz.

No front-runners felt the need to pit under the VSC, but both Force Indias did; Perez made his first stop (swapping supersofts for ultrasofts) under the VSC to return to the track in ninth behind Hulkenberg and Leclerc, who had already stopped after starting on the hypersofts.

After the VSC, Vettel resumed piling the pressure on Ricciardo, and the Australian encountered traffic on multiple laps at the stadium section, which eventually gave Vettel a chance to pass.

In the slipstream of the Red Bull, Vettel passed Ricciardo on the inside of turn one and assertively held his position into turn two to take third place.

Not finished there, Vettel’s attentions turned to championship leader Hamilton – who was struggling with the wear of his tyres – and began reeling in the Mercedes man.

He quickly started applying the pressure and, with his first attempt, he activated his DRS and powered past Hamilton down the start-finish straight for second place, with Hamilton choosing not to defend excessively.

With the race just past the halfway point, home favourite Perez was forced to retire from the race with mechanical problems, his first home DNF. He had only recently passed Leclerc for eighth place and was eyeing up Hulkenberg’s seventh place.

With Ricciardo looking to find a way past the Mercedes on the main straight, Hamilton locked up and ran across the grass at turn one, conceded the position to the Red Bull, and prompted Mercedes to bring the Briton in for fresh (albeit already used) ultrasoft tyres at the end of the same lap. Vettel and Verstappen also pitted for new ultrasofts and new supersofts respectively.

A carbon copy mistake for Bottas when defending from Raikkonen encouraged Mercedes to bring their second car in just one lap later, leaving just Ricciardo and Raikkonen as the drivers yet to make a second stop.

The running order at the end of lap 55 was; Verstappen, Ricciardo, Vettel, Raikkonen, Hamilton and Bottas.

If Vettel was to have any hope of winning the race and keeping the championship race alive, he needed to pass Ricciardo, but his former team-mate was doing a valiant job of eking out leftover performance from the very old supersofts.

However, Ricciardo’s hopes of playing his part in what could’ve been Red Bull’s last one-two before his departure to Renault were ended when his car met a smokey end. He pulled over at turn one, gifting second to Vettel, third to Raikkonen and fourth to Hamilton. Fifth-placed Valtteri Bottas pitted harmlessly for hypersoft tyres under the resulting VSC.

Despite Red Bull accepting Verstappen’s wishes to turn the car down, he was untroubled in the closing laps and cruised across the line to take the Mexico win.

Vettel took his first podium at the venue, ahead of Kimi Raikkonen and Hamilton, who was even further into cruise mode as he finished in fourth.

Bottas was one lap down in fifth, with Hulkenberg finishing in sixth to add eight valuable points to Renault’s fourth place in the constructors’ championship.

Charles Leclerc took seventh for Sauber, whilst Stoffel Vandoorne took his first points since the Azerbaijan Grand Prix in eighth, ahead of Sauber’s Marcus Ericsson and Toro Rosso’s Pierre Gasly

MEXICAN GRAND PRIX, 71 Laps
1 Max Verstappen Red Bull/Renault
2 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 17.316s
3 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 49.914s
4 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 78.738s
5 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1 Lap
6 Nico Hulkenberg Renault 2 Laps
7 Charles Leclerc Sauber/Ferrari 2 Laps
8 Stoffel Vandoorne McLaren/Renault 2 Laps
9 Marcus Ericsson Sauber/Ferrari 2 Laps
10 Pierre Gasly Toro Rosso/Honda 2 Laps
11 Esteban Ocon Force India/Mercedes 2 Laps
12 Lance Stroll Williams/Mercedes 2 Laps
13 Sergey Sirotkin Williams/Mercedes 2 Laps
14 Brendon Hartley Toro Rosso/Honda 2 Laps
15 Kevin Magnussen Haas/Ferrari 2 Laps
16 Romain Grosjean Haas/Ferrari 2 Laps
17 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull/Renault DNF
18 Sergio Perez Force India/Mercedes DNF
19 Carlos Sainz Renault DNF
20 Fernando Alonso McLaren/Renault DNF

By: Luke Murphy

All images: Motorsport Images

What are your thoughts on the Mexican Grand Prix? Who was your driver of the day? Leave your thoughts in the comments section below.

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1

i fully understand why you go all out to discredit hamilton. fact is, all involved in f1 know that hamilton leads his engineers into designing building and developing the car he drives. here are frederic vasseur words in support of the matter and he didn’t say that because i repeated it a million times. i only repeated it for you to learn.

““I think the driver has to be the leader of the concept. I always had the same view on this and one of the assets of the driver is to be able to bring the team with him and to push in a clear way, and it will be one step forward for us to have someone like Kimi with huge reference to the business. To know exactly what he wants to do, and to deliver.”

So what has the Iceman been like to deal with thus far? One presumes he is a warmer character within his team, than he is to the outside world…

“We didn’t work together so far,” Fred admits with a grin, “but a couple of times we had good discussions, I would say. And I have a very good feeling because he is straightforward and I’m straightforward and we have the same approach. It’s much easier to improve when you are like this.”

2

for all those who are slow to learn that hamilton leads his team of engineers to provide him with car he can fight with. here is some differentiated material to help with your learning.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sunday-conversation-frederic-vasseur-on-leclerc-raikkonen-and-the-pillars.1mq9mSK8FSG2ScEsU4UgmM.html

3

For all who don’t believe tomatoes are green… here an article on apples…

Where in the article does it say Hamilton guides his engineers??????????????????

4

vettel says he was stronger than hamilton on the straights and hamilton was stronger in sector two. now tell me which car has the better chassis. looks lik i am continuing to teach you, you’ve surely got to start paying.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kE0rBHn4qLc

5

i feel sorry for you andre..like it or not hamilton does all things about being an f1 driver better than everyone in the history of the sport, including guiding his engineers to provide him with the equipment to do damage with…

did you read the bit about hamilton restructuring mercedes f1 racing team’s line of communication to further enhance their efficiency?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGi3XWwS9c

6

Hi Andre

But,its easy to find this particular green tomato

Its the one with 5 WDC’s to nis name.

That green tomato needs zero explanation..

All the proof you need is in the pudding bro.

Beyond pointless opinions.Subject only to facts

Have a good day

7

Dear Terry, I am not talking bad about Hamilton anywhere.

Just responding to aveli’s nonsense.

Now let’s have some pudding, bro!

PS. are you a better driver when you have 5 or 3 titles? :))))

8

what bit of my post is nonsense? doesn’t make sense to you that hamilton is capable of guiding his engineers to provide him with equipment to do damage with? i feel sorry for you and wish you had one piece of evidence to back your claim.

9

och aveli, when did I say something bad about Hamilton?

He is one of the few drivers I follow on social media. I have no problem at all with him. Just some of his fans are way out there.

He is one of the greats, just like the other greats. But not better and not worse. Because you simply can’t compare. That’s just how (F1) racing is.

If you can’t make the connection between Mercedes PU dominance and his string of poles and victories these last four years, even when he is (maybe) the best on the grid, then I feel sorry for you.

10

i am aware of your agony each time anything positive is written about hamilton. that’s what drives you to post such nonsense.

11

i apologise but here is an extract from the article which will help you learn better.

“I think the driver has to be the leader of the concept. I always had the same view on this and one of the assets of the driver is to be able to bring the team with him and to push in a clear way, and it will be one step forward for us to have someone like Kimi with huge reference to the business. To know exactly what he wants to do, and to deliver.”

So what has the Iceman been like to deal with thus far? One presumes he is a warmer character within his team, than he is to the outside world…

“We didn’t work together so far,” Fred admits with a grin, “but a couple of times we had good discussions, I would say. And I have a very good feeling because he is straightforward and I’m straightforward and we have the same approach. It’s much easier to improve when you are like this.”

12

aveli, everybody knows about drivers input. Nobody is denying that. Like I said before, all drivers do that, not just Hamilton, like your extract points out. But you saying that Hamilton is better in it than all other drivers is just plain BS.

Plus Mercedes it’s strength is mostly PU based, having that extra straightline speed, but chassis wise it is not the best of the field. And on the PU side there is not a lot a driver can influence.

Alonso guided his Renault engineers also to building a winning car, but somehow couldn’t make his Ferrari engineers do the same? Strange isn’t ?! Did he forget how to do it??

Did Button only get it right that one time?

And no I have absolutely nothing against Hamilton. But your adoration has nothing to do with reality.

13

button won his championship with that double diffuser advantage and alonso enjoyed his mass dampers. hamilton on the other hand, not fully listened to at mclaren, left them to fall so fast that button and alonso couldn’t save them. mercedes, in the other hand, won nothing with schumacher and rosberg. it wasn’t until hamilton arrived that they started to win and have not stopped since. his engineers say he guides them well and andre says he doesn’t.

did you enjoy witnessing him destroy that pole record one more time?

14

pole record destroyed yet again.

15

i feel sorry for you andre….whether you accept it or not, hamilton has proved time and time again that he is the best f1 driver of all time. he has done everything about being an f1 driver better than everyone in the history of the sport and guiding his engineers to providing him with equipment to do damage with is simply part of his routine. a team principal of all, says the driver should lead the team. should!

hamilton is teaching the world more about being an f1 driver.

did you read the bit about him restricting the mercedes team’s lines of communication to further improve their operational efficiency?

he does it all so well..

16

fact? your ‘facts’ are only opinions. no matter how many records he breaks.

17

hamilton drives f1 cars between fashion shows and still beat the professionals, dedicated to driving and all preparations leading up to driving f1 cars.

18

you can try all you want but you cannot change the fact that hamilton does all things f1 drivers do better than anyone has ever done. including guiding his engineers to provide him with the equipment to do so. here are words from an engineer who has worked with a few champions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46131677

19

@aveli

you don’t need to teach me anything hahaha.

you just need to wake up, and you need to read better.

Maybe you will learn something..

I didn’t say Hamilton’s succes is PU based, I said Mercedes it’s strength is PU based.

Why didn’t he make McLaren better after 2008?

20

andre…i will start charging for teaching you all this. your post which says the articles doesn’t state that hamilton guides his engineers to provide him with equipment to do damage is still above for your reference. and you post admitting that all drivers guide their engineers to provide them with cars while denying that hamilton does it better than the rest is emmediately above. including your claim that hamilton’s success is power unit based.

please note that all the drivers you have referred to are not as consistent as hamilton in doing anything in f1. qualifying defending overtaking driving in the rain team choice team cohesion race victories championship wins sponsorship and marketing.

the other drivers are as inconsistent as you have described in you most resent post.

hamilton will get any team to improve in performance. any team!

21

all drivers set out in march to compete for the drivers’ championship while the teams compete for the constructors’ championship.

those are the greatest f1 victories. many race wins contribute towards these victories so race wins are relatively miniscule.

22

Anyone else watching the F1 livestream of the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix? 10 years ago today. Only about the 385,735th time I’ve watched that race…

23

@Andrew M

I’ve got it saved on my Skybox 🙂

24

Same here. This was the F1 that according to fans was in dire need of fixing.

So they did and now it’s much better.

26

i wonder if there is any f1 fan who doesn’t believe hamilton would catch and pass any driver who was quicker than hamilton in a dry race, if it starts raining.

27
Clarks4WheelDrift

Me.

I know this one, the any driver answer is Hulk…

28

we all know which driver occupies your mind.

29

@ahameli

I do.

30

In your own words sir…

8:05 amOctober 30, 2018

aveli

better to describe what happened than to describe what is yet to happen.

+3Reply Share

31

i am so sorry you failed to realise that i am describing what has happened and not what is yet to happen.
my description of fans’ already formed opinion has got you all confused. i apologise from the bottom of my heart. i hope you can find it in you to accept my apology spudtwoooo.

32

for all those who believe mercedes design build and develop their cars without hamilton.

“ My job is to try to extract the most from every single person there. So, how you debrief, how you understand personally, how you engage with everyone when you have a bad weekend, how you lift everyone up. How you nurture that and build upon it has been key this year.“

in his own words, he describes how he guides his engineers. any driver who doesn’t know how to guide their engineers to perform at their best should talk to russell to find out exactly how hamilton does it.

33
Clarks4WheelDrift

Me.

I believe they do. So does Fangio. Hamilton wasn’t born yet…

34

OH aveli, do you really think that? Is Russell’s (biased) opinion worth anything? What is his reference?

His words don’t suggest he ‘guides’ them (to make the car faster) at all. He only ‘tries’ to keep them motivated and pushing them to do their best. And if you think he is the only one on the grid who does that, you better think again.

Did he make them build the fastest engine through his guidance?

Party-mode is his invention?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/26946444

35

andre…..i believe everything i say and would like to point out to you that hamilton is not the only f1 driver on the grid. there are 19 others who also do what he does but not as well as he does it. there has never been a driver in the history of the sport who has done it as well as he does and there will not be another as good in our lifetime.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.opinion-why-2018-title-was-hamiltons-best.dKJeLgOGL6E4SKkIwIgsE.html

36

To repeat something a thousand times doesn’t make it true my dear aveli.

Your article says it was HIS best. Could be. Doesn’t say anything about all other world champions, does it.

Anyway, enjoy yourself. I won’t waste any more time with this nonsense.

37

@aveli, I don’t discredit Hamilton at all.

I would even say I am a fan.

I only say what your implying is nonsense.

All drivers do what Hamilton does. Some maybe not so good, some maybe even better.

You have no proof at all, none, to claim he has done it better than anyone in our lifetime.

38

i fully understand why you go all out to discredit hamilton. fact is, all involved in f1 know that hamilton leads his engineers into designing building and developing the car he drives. here are frederic vasseur words in support of the matter and he didn’t say that because i repeated it a million times. i only repeated it for you to learn.

““I think the driver has to be the leader of the concept. I always had the same view on this and one of the assets of the driver is to be able to bring the team with him and to push in a clear way, and it will be one step forward for us to have someone like Kimi with huge reference to the business. To know exactly what he wants to do, and to deliver.”

So what has the Iceman been like to deal with thus far? One presumes he is a warmer character within his team, than he is to the outside world…

“We didn’t work together so far,” Fred admits with a grin, “but a couple of times we had good discussions, I would say. And I have a very good feeling because he is straightforward and I’m straightforward and we have the same approach. It’s much easier to improve when you are like this.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sunday-conversation-frederic-vasseur-on-leclerc-raikkonen-and-the-pillars.1mq9mSK8FSG2ScEsU4UgmM.html

39

Dude he doesn’t mention guiding engineers once in that statement?? You might as well have said this statement is proof that Hamilton once ate an apple.

On the plus side your posts have somehow gone from irritating to entertaining.

Tell us the one about how he even proved his greatness 10 years ago with a superb win from the back (in gp2 I think). 🙂

40

here are words of frederic vasseur who knows one or two things about f1. you will soon learn that hamilton leads his team of engineers to provide him with the right car to do battle with..

““I think the driver has to be the leader of the concept. I always had the same view on this and one of the assets of the driver is to be able to bring the team with him and to push in a clear way, and it will be one step forward for us to have someone like Kimi with huge reference to the business. To know exactly what he wants to do, and to deliver.”

So what has the Iceman been like to deal with thus far? One presumes he is a warmer character within his team, than he is to the outside world…”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sunday-conversation-frederic-vasseur-on-leclerc-raikkonen-and-the-pillars.1mq9mSK8FSG2ScEsU4UgmM.html

41

Spud – He wasn’t in GP2 10 years ago.

Aveli is going full on fanboi but you need to appreciate that driver feedback is crucial for engineers to understand what exactly is going on and what they need to fix. If you get a Newey in charge then you expect a brilliant car out of the box. If the car starts as a dog and then improves dramatically do you think the designers and engineers just got smarter through the season?

42

So what do you think?

That it’s all driver after the season starts?

Of course drivers give input. But there is no proof Hamilton gives better input than all the other drivers is there?!!

Secondly the drivers can give the best input they have, the engineers still need to convert it into something that makes the car go faster. And even that depends on in what team these engineers operate. It’s easier for Mercedes to find that extra tenth than Haas for example. No matter how good the input of it’s drivers is.

43

chicken and egg aveli. chicken and egg.

The RB drivers (third best team on the grid) know allmost every race they will not fight for pole and victories. And you think it is because they didn’t guide their engineers as good as Hamilton??

VER his Q3 lap in Singapore was just as impressive as HAM his, but he lost out on all the straights due to lack of straightline speed.

But that’s ofcourse because HAM guided his engineers to make the Mercedes engine have more topspeed……

44

if you know that drivers guide their engineers to provide them with theirs cars then you should know that hamilton does it better than everyone because he drives his car to the most pole positions the most victories and the most championships. how much more evidence do you need to convince you of that fact?

45

i do not intend to convince you as i know that you believe mercedes harvest their cars from trees. you don’t believe mercedes were nowhere without hamilton’s guidance. you believe mclaren’s performance didn’t change after hamilton left the team.
why would i want to convince you?

46

For anybody interested in the technical/regulatory aspects of the Mercedes Wheel Rims situation then the FIA Stewards have now issued a written statement dated 25 October 2018:

https://www.fia.com/file/74421/download?token=hzOcoHFV

(I hope I got the hyperlink encoded for you all to get access? Not sure though, so bare with me please if it doesn’t work…)

Snippets from the statement:

“The FIA’s Technical Department provided advice to the team, which in part confirmed that in the opinion of the Technical Department, that the configuration of the part in question would be in compliance with the Technical Regulations.”

(and then at the same time, they don’t promise Mercedes that all is good, as the statement continues…)

As with all advice given to the teams by the FIA’s Technical Department, the teams are reminded in those documents that they are “Advisory in nature and do not constitute Technical Regulations. it is for the Stewards, and ultimately the FIA International Court of Appeal, to offer binding interpretations of the Technical Regulations.“

47

I thought the radio call from Will Smith was pretty funny

THAT’S HOW YOU DO IT BABY 😳

JUST LIKE I TAUGHT YOU! 🤔

THAT’S HOW YOU SUPPOSED TO DRIVE! 😂 78sec behind winner

It was like Will Smith didn’t want to cooperate with the F1 PR department and they secretly recorded his voice while he was on his hotel room busy with his girlfriend.

Lewis, wisely, did not respond.

48

Lewis is Will’s girlfriend?

Ah, it all starts to make so much more sense now!

49

Cyber, yet more standard raising.

50
Clarks4WheelDrift

Didn’t they just play a clip from Will Smith in Bad Boys?

Didn’t even see him on TV and you know how they like to cut away from the racing to show any old a-lister to z-lister nobody supping the corporate fizz whilst not watching the GP with their name underneath as if it brings popularity to F1…

51
Torchwood Mobile

I thought the Will Smith clip was great, but also noted a lack of the star being shown in the paddock or garage.

PlanetF1, I think, said they reviewed the full radio broadcast, and that was not part of it – Lewis didn’t even hear it!

It was purely played for the fans.

PF1 said (guessed, I thought) that it was actually for the Texas audience, but the title wasn’t clinched there.

52

Here’s a request for anyone out there. In the post-race segment on Sky, they had a montage of clips with Hamilton and Fangio, highlighting some of their seminal moments. There was one, no doubt from Silverstone 2008, where a total (and I mean total) pea soup setting is broken up by Hamilton bursting through in his McLaren, distinctive yellow helmet and all.

It just perfectly encapsulated what Hamilton is about … fearless, controlled aggression, at the limit, capable of feats others aren’t, and just a pure driving machine.

If someone can post a still, I’d appreciate it.

53
Clarks4WheelDrift

Nearly, fearless, controlled aggression, over the limit. 😉

54

only if you were as dedicated to at least one other f1 driver..

55

There there C4WD40
I know it’s difficult seeing a young buck like Max destroying the “fist chest pumping Aussie Chewbacca impressionist” into turn one at Mexico, followed by a 5 times World Champ. Sorry I’m mistaken he was just a mere 4 times World champ pre “lights out” and post lights out “5 times champ”. Or as the Aussie Chewbacca would put it….EeeeeoooooWwwwww!! …EeeeHaaaaaoooowwww!!

56

he also enjoys the largest collection of anti fans.

57

There have been some epic moments indeed!

Nearly, fearless, controlled aggression, over the limit. 😉

59

@Cyber

All drivers have moments like that.

Only three have one like this:

Five, baby. Five!

60

Indeed FanF1,
I am all with you baby! ;o)

61

is that the five time world champion?

62

no one has ever enjoyed such a large collection of anti fans.

63

With ludicrous fans like you, nobody wonders why.
You destroy our hero’s image and brand.

64

Canada ’11 eh? Can tell by those ‘L’ sidepods.

Everyone gets it wrong sometimes. If they were always perfect it’d be boring.

65

KRB let the poor fellas have their moments. They still getting over the the Max and Lewis start into turn one.

66

Hamilton is great, no doubt about it. But he is not the only great racing driver out there. There is a tremendous amount of talent on the grid today that is not being allowed full expression due to the the way f1 is at the moment.

Nor is HAM superhuman as the above photo attests to. Plus I still remember a very wet Korea (was it 2010?) where he was screaming on the radio for the safety car to be brought in because it was nearly intermediate conditions and not dangerous at all, only to be passed left, right and centre when the SC finally came in.

I just thought I’d mention it for the sake of balance and objectivity, but mainly for aveli.

67

if there was any driver as good as hamilton in f1, they would’ve achieved as much as hamilton.

68

LukeC, 2010 Korean GP was very wet, Lewis started fourth and finished second. You might like to watch this short highlight bid, Lewis, Fernando and Seb all say it’s too wet at the beginning, but then only Lewis says the track is fine the second time, he did get passed by Rosberg at the restart, but that didn’t last long as Nico was soon in the wall. So in short, there’s no ‘screaming’ he didn’t get passed ‘left right and centre’ and he drove an excellent race while numerous people spun off. Good job Luke!

https://vimeo.com/46870680

69

any great will get noticed along hamilton but so far, vettel is the closest and we all saw how they compare. a different class altogether.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.opinion-why-2018-title-was-hamiltons-best.dKJeLgOGL6E4SKkIwIgsE.html

we will not see another as good in our lifetime.

70

Hmm, not sure you remember right about Korea ’10. He got passed by Fernando at the restart, but finished 2nd.

71

AndrewM, a bad wet race where he started fourth and finished second!

72

“He had a bad wet race that I can’t remember 8 years ago, see, he’s rubbish”

73

It was a long time ago, but I remember he looked very ordinary in the early stages immediately after the SC released the field.

74

@ KRB…After reading your post it is apparent that you’ve succumed to a virus known as ‘streptavelicocchus’. I don’t wish to be the bearer of bad news but you do know that this is an incurable condition and there is no known treatment.

76

Like the humour made me smile 👍

77

Googled that word kenny, and it came back with nothing. I’m guessing you got this from one of your “special” sites.

I like excellence kenny. You’re seeing excellence. I’m not one for F1 socialism, which is equality of outcome for some on here. Equality of opportunity, all for it. They could all have the same car, and if Hamilton scored more poles you’d still be claiming favouritism. It’s a crutch, and you like your crutches. You like your crutches, and I like excellence. Different strokes for different folks.

78

Love the fact we now have to discount the last five years when discussing Hamilton, soon we’ll have to discount the last decade.

79

I take special offence to that, KRB.

My name is Kenny, and it means “handsome one” (as is patently obvious).

80

@KRB

kenneth always says someones response is weak when he’s on the back foot – it’s his ‘tell’.

81

@KRB…Very very weak response. I will in future abbreviate your affliction to a more manageable usage…Yopu have contracted SA. That should keep you happy. ‘They could all have the same car’ ? If they did your fascination would have more on his plate to contend with, then we may see the emergence of a true WDC, and not such a lopsided event as witnessed over the past 5 years.

82

it appears as though kenneth is the on with that mental heal condition, as.

we all witnessed a rookie hamilton driving the same cars a the then youngest ever reigning back to back world champion and saw this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qyYOJnMpK6U

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FsMoktU88GE

83

Again, no idea what that acronym means kenny. In the exact same car Hamilton would still beat them all. You know it, I know it. Hamilton would’ve won in the Merc or Ferrari in 2008/17/18. In 2008/18 the Ferrari was better, but he still beat them.

You will likely never again see a title victory like this year’s, in modern F1.

I get that you’re worried about Dan’s future prospects. I was too when Lewis joined Mercedes. Y’never know what can happen. However I still kept my wits about me on here, and didn’t become a snivelling schmuck like you have. It’s not that hard to do, honestly.

Schumacher, Fangio, Hamilton.

84

You know how I hate to correct you Kenneth but the last line of your comment contains an error, it should have course say ‘and not such a lopsided event as witnessed over the last 68 years’. Putting five years makes it look as though you think F1 was some sort of one make championship prior to 2013, which is of course nonsense.

85

sorry i couldn’t find the picture but you post incapsulates it perfectly.

they’ll all soon be left with no choice but to accept him as the best of all time.

i am yet to see anyone drive an f1 car as well.

86

i am yet to see anyone drive an f1 car as well

Anyone? Literally anyone?
Either you are a relatively new F1 fan, or you haven’t been paying close enough attention…

87

This photo is so evocative. It reminds me of the days when f1 was still great. How I miss those days.

88

Today i read another, [ 3rd hand ] strange claim, purported to be from AMUS, re Red Bull and Ricciardo’s DNF. It appears that Marko has said that ‘they’ were aware of the hydraulic problem as of lap 10. The report goes on to say that he said that the end of a hose broke off’. In my understanding if something that conveys extremely high pressure fluids breaks off the hose end that is it, kaput. If true then was this damage information conveyed to Ricciardo? Are the hydraulics a Renault supplied unit? Was it a structural fault ? How frequently are hydraulic lines pressure tested ? Many questions and apparently no answers….yet. If only we had some real ballsy investigative journalists to dig deep!!!

89

marko may have known about a problem from lap 10 from data showing some loss in hydraulic pressure only to identify it after the car returned to the garage. they do not have cameras on each component.

90

Geez kenneth, listen to yourself – investigative journalists, many questions etc. His car broke down, it happens, sad for Ricci and his fans, but it happens. Nothing to see here, move along.

91

kenneth and his friends laughed at hamilton’s dress sense, and now learn that hamilton’s own designed fashion launches in the major cities of the world have all been sold out. with tommy hilfigger profits sky rocketing.

92

It happens, nothing to see here, move along.

Because that’s the exact same attitude most folks around here took when Lewis’s PU went up in a cloud of smoke in Malaysia. FFS even Lewis himself was hinting that “someone or something doesn’t want me to win.”

93

Twitch, I never thought that Mercedes were trying to sabotage Lewis’ car, and neither did Lewis.

94

Because that’s the exact same attitude

@Twitch

FFS yourself – the exact same people who are crying into their cornflakes over Ricci and his woes were cockahoop over Hamilton’s issues. It’s the double standards Twitch , that’s what I am pointing out.

95

I remember certain prominent Ricciardo supporters saying that Hamilton fans were embarrassing themselves by indulging in conspiracy theories. And of course that there was no way the failures could be coincidence, they must be Hamilton’s fault.

96

Still spouting the same old same old C63. Time to get a life and move on. You’re becoming a seriously repetitive bore. You disagree with every post i make. Enjoy….

97

You won’t beat a smarty pants Ken.

Fighting this kind of egos is wasting your time. Ignore.

I bet you’re thrice his age. I may be wrong.

98

@ AlanF1 hahahah more like four times his age in reality. They are always recalling so many slurs but they never actually provide them to support their theories. I’ve no doubt that ovr time many things have been said that seen in todays c ontext appear to at odds…so what. I change my mind quite often…especially when the determining facts change. If anyone cared to seek out my posts of the Vettel Red Bull days they would see that i really didn’t like Vettel at all. I have since changed my mind and whilst he’s not on my list of dinner invitees i quite like his approach in the media and find him more acceptable as a driver guy.

99

Alan, C63 is right though, Kenneth and his pals could barely contain their glee when Lewis broke down in Malaysia, and they really did mock anyone who dared to suggest that Mercedes were sabotaging their own car. I guess none of this matters to you though.

100

Oh c’mon Alan F1 – that was funny. Lighten up, it’s just a bit of fun on this forum.

ps

You’re wrong about the age thing.

101

You disagree with every post i make

That’s a bit unfair , It’s hardly my fault that you are so disagreeable Kenneth 🤣

102

how many people have you advised to ‘move on’?

I’ve not kept an exact count, but so far as I recall – just you 🙂

103

@ C63…there you go again, making snide comments and posting a smiley afterwards in a childish attempt to make out that you’re all sweetness and light. Game over pal. You blotted your copybook some time back. You are just so patently transparent. On this thread alone how many people have you advised to ‘move on’? When someone pays you back with the same advice you get all humpy. Talk about hypocritical!!!!

104

Ha ha, yeah get a life C63, quit the repetitive posts and leave 25 on each article claiming that Red Bull are sabotaging their own car instead!!

105

C63, I’m surprised nobody has accused Dan the man of ‘over revving the engine’ that used to pop up in 2016….

106

Personally I reckon Ricci is over driving his car and causing the damage to himself – all in a vain attempt to try and keep up with Max 😉

107

A lot of Riciardo fans here who are in dire need of tin foiled hats. It takes a special mind to see the logic in Red Bull deliberately sabotaging Dan’s car, so that Max could outscore him.

It is far better for their image to have Dan win some more races this year. That way they can say it was all the car, when Dan is unable to reach the podium in the Renault. Because there’s no way they can come back from 2 laps down to winning. Especially since this will be the fourth new engine next year.

Besides, reliability is still an issue at Red Bull. Having your drivers in first andn second position doubles your odds of a win when either of them breaks down.

108

There is actually no marketing logic in your suggestion Robert that Red Bull would give a damn what RIC will be doing next year in a Renault. Next year is too far away and people will have moved on. Red Bull will be so concentrated on getting their Honda alliance right today’s stories will be stale for them.

Believing there can be some control of outcomes is necessary for the multi-millions that corporations invest in F1, control is power and make no mistake when they can use it they will. There is a smell in the air at Red Bull, and people should call it out. The current situation for Dan at Red Bull should be challenged by the fans, otherwise, we are pawns simply surrendering to the sell.

109

@ Lucia…that’s a very good post. IMO Ricciardo’s fate was sealed, well and truly, when he signed for Renault. Red Bull took it very badly and their approach has been none too subtle ever since. IMO they have systematically hammered home Ricciardo’s irrelevance. Horner has now come up with his latest mindgame saying that Ricciardo has this ‘dark cloud’ hanging over him. Once he’s established that as a viable situation he then goes on to say ‘only Ricciardo can say if he’s he’s made the wrong decision to join Renault’ which furthers their effort to destroy any confidence Ricciardo had in his own abilities. People will say ‘whoa there…you’re seeing conspiracies and they are anathema to all the non supporters’. IMO Red Bull will do all that they can to vent their displeasure with Ricciardo and that if they can erode his ongoing motivation then they are winners. Mind games are very effective as witnessed in F1 on many occasions. That game is well documented in the Mark Webber/Marko/Horner years.

110

hamilton’s clothe lines sell better than most established fashion lines.

111

you criticised hamilton’s dress sense a couple of years ago. now people queue to buy his designs. how foolish you you feel now?

112

You’re completely wrong for one obvious reason. If they wanted Ricciardo to look bad they’d make his car slow, not make it blow up.

113

may be you need to understand that the only person who stopped verstappen from being recognised as the youngest ever pole sitter was ricciardo and he hid it from the entire team all weekend until the final lap.

i doubt his engine failure was beliberate but the start looked dodgy enough to me.

114

The Game being played here is between Renault and Red Bull. Unfortunately, it is Daniel Ricciardo that is being used as a way of sticking it to each other. These issues have been a long and dirty tit for tat spectacle since RBR and Renault last won a championship together. Hardly surprising really. Profits, reputations, egos. Surprised. Not really…,

115

It’s not just a battle between Redbull and Renault, it’s bigger than that.

Redbull has teamed up with Honda.

Renault are a 40% share holder in Nissan, and Nissan own something like 25-30% shares in Renault.

Honda and Nissan have been intense rivals in the automotive and motorsport industry for years. Not necessarily bitter, but fiercely competitive.

So it’s actually Renault/Nissan vs Redbull/Honda, and Danny Ric is the pawn caught in the middle. There’s a ton of pride at stake with all this, and more than enough money to be thrown around to make things happen.

116

ricciardo his that pole lap from everybody until the final lap. nothing to do with renault or red bull. red bull were prevented from registering verstappen the youngest pole sitter into history. do you think they were upset by it?

117

I would surmise that Red Bull realised that it was in their best interest to keep a clean image and acted upon it with Christian Horner’s apology to Dan. More telling is the absence of the usual inflammatory comments form Helmut Marko.

118

Firstly, GET IN THERE LEWIS.

Sorry I’m a bit late to the party, I’m sure you all missed me, especially the bonza blokes in singlets and thongs. 🙂

My wife and I took the Lotus to the Lake District for the weekend. It was AMAZING. And what a way to cap it off! FIVE TIME CHAMPION. Oh that feels good.

Here’s to C63, KRB, BK Flamer, Oblah, and all the others in #teamlh. Hope you all enjoyed yourselves. I get a feeling you might have done!

I have to say, I’ve been watching F1 since 1980 and this was one of the very best demonstrations of a complete F1 driver I have ever seen. Lewis has produced an absolute masterclass of a season. I genuinely think he’s been in the form of his life. Some legendary drives and I’m struggling to think of any mistakes he’s made, although I’m sure there are some. Either way, he SO deserves it. Also LOVED that he didn’t just trundle home in 7th, he made as good a go of it as he could.

We all love a racer right?

I must say hats off to Seb for being so gracious in defeat. It can’t have been easy for him but he showed a level of class and maturity that was worthy of a four time champion.

Max v Dan. Oh how I laughed at all the comments post qualifying. Oh how I laughed even harder at the start of the race. Brilliant. Lots to say on that front but why bother, there’s more important things at hand…

FIVE TIME CHAMP!!! Happy as a pig in poo and a dag with two dicks.

#loveconquersall
#getintherelewis
#saveit
#stillherises

🙂 🙂 🙂

119

👍
A Lotus
A weekend jaunt,
through the Lake District.
It’s an amazing place, especially driving in the expanse of Autumnal colours and the sharp rays of a low setting Sun.
Heading to a quirky pub for a pint of Spitfire or a stronger Old Speckled Hen (just the one…powerful stuff so grab a bite to eat).
What can top that ?
Great Post The Exigency 👍

120

@BKF, thank you mate. It was indeed a glorious weekend of driving, fell walking and championship wins! VERY hard to beat!

I’m sure you made the most of it too!

🙂

121

The exigency

Great post!!👍👍

Enjoy the celebrations 😄😄

And yes, the Lake District is special, one of the most beautiful places in England🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

122

Thanks a lot James, you too. And yep, the Lakes are gorgeous. Some VERY good driving to be had too!

123

Good post. I’m a Ferrari – and therefore Vettel fan – but have no problem admitting LH was the better man this year.

Probably his most testing recent season, other than 2016, and he delivered impeccably – no question marks or grey areas. Chapeau!

124

Redline, gracious in defeat just like Seb was. Hats off to you.

I really thought Seb was going to do it this year. Just had one of those feelings. And I fully agree, although it came unstuck a bit at the end, I think Seb and Ferrari have given Lewis his strongest challenge this season. Hope you enjoyed the tussle and here’s to next year. Have a good one.

125

As usual Redline,

A great post and a true F1 fan.

A pleasure to read👍

I’m ecstatic that Lewis and Merc have sown the WDC up, but if Seb had driven all the year like he did in Mexico, I think things could have been a bit different now. Imo, Lewis would still be WDC, but it certainly wouldn’t have been wrapped up like now.

126

but if Seb had driven all the year

Therein lies the rub – it’s easy to drive well when it doesn’t matter, but the true greats can drive well when it does.

127

C63

Yes, agree with you there👍

Now, let’s go out and celebrate 🍻🍻🍻🍺🌮🤢😄

128

@JamesK

I hear you – I guess all I’m trying to say, is that by Mexico the pressure wasn’t really on Seb in the same way it had been earlier in the season – the title was all but done and dusted – and he appeared to drive much more freely. Was that a coincidence? I don’t think it was.

129

But did Mexico not matter C63??

If Lewis got a DNF, Seb”s job was to win.

130

well put the exigency…you deserve 3 more gold stars. the lakes aren’t a bad place to enjoy a championship winning race after all. some breathtaking views out there.

131

Thank you mate. It was indeed a beautiful place to be and also a great place to enjoy title number five!!!

132

@The Exigency. #HiFive buddy. 🙂 In time, even his most staunch critic will come to speak his name with the same reverence of a Senna, Moss, Fangio, Prost or MSC.

P.s You forgot Aveli, the craziest fanatic of us all 😀 😀

133

@Oblah, doesn’t it feel good?!

🙂

Definitely his best championship. He brought Mercedes their first title since Fangio. And now he’s equalled him. You’re right, even the haters will have to admit it. Or continue to look utterly ridiculous!

Great work this season from you mate. Looking forward to your input for next season already!

And my god you’re right, I totally forgot Aveli!!!

@Aveli, if you’re reading this, sorry mate, hope you enjoyed the celebrations!

134

we, the crazy lot, are considering compiling portraits of hamilton holding his winning trophy in celebration, from his 71 victories into a montage and make silk ties only for the crazy lot to wear to work with pride.

135

do you think i’m crazy?

in that case, you are yet to realise just how much better a driver hamilton is than the entire historical list of drivers.

i only tell the truth which may sound crazy to you because you haven’t yet realised. i realised this in 2007 and have said so ever since.

you will soon join us the crazy liot.

136

Well said !!!

137

@iman42

Thank you mate, hope you had a great weekend!

138

#stillirise

#alleyezonme

#meagainsttheworld

#lookinginmyrearview

#ambitionzasarider

#youcantcme

#betterdayz

#keepyourheadup

#myblock

#brenda’sgotababy

#whenwerideonourwnemies

#stillballin’

#californialove

#2ofamerikazmostwanted

#hailmarry

#hitemup

#thugmansion

#deathrow

#OutlawImortalz

#THUGLIFEBABY

Now let me get a massive cross tattooed on my back, put my diamond stud nose ring in and wear my black bandana with the knot to the front, like my fashion style is so original 😜 (for reference watch the practice sessions from Austin lmao).

139

@titch

I replied to this but it seems to have been lost during moderation.

I said something like “I think it’s better to have style than none. But someone without any style probably doesn’t see it in others. No biggie.”

#fivetimechamp
#getarealcar

140

The Exigency, don’t flatter yourself mate, you haven’t struck any nerve with me at all lol.

This is all jokes for me, it’s nothing serious at all. To me, it looks more like team LH who has the nerve that’s been struck 😜

Why would I go outside right now? It’s november, it’s rainy and miserable outside. This is perfect PS4 season. It’s too cold to go out on the lake, and there’s not enough snow on the mountains to hit the slopes yet.

141

@titch,

Ummm… ok. Erm, have fun.

142

Exige, not sure exactly what you mean? Are you implying I don’t have style, and therefore can’t understand lewis’s Style?

If that’s what you’re saying….LOL.

I understand lewis’s style 100%. I’m old enough to remember going down to the music store in ‘96 to pick up my copy of All Eyez On Me, with Tupac on the front cover with a diamon stud nose ring in the left side, with a black bandana with the knot tied in the front. Inside the CD jacket was a picture of Pac’s massive cross tattooed on his back. I also remember the first time I heard Still I Rise.

Now, I don’t have anything against someone being a Tupac fan. But if you’re not from North America, you might not be aware that the practice of actually dressing up like Tupac, emulating his style, is frowned upon/laughed at.

Like I said, if you watch the Austin practice sessions, you can see footage of Lewis dressed up almost exactly like Tupac (just missing the black leather vest) during his Death Row days, almost like he was wearing a Tupac Halloween costume 2 weeks early.

It’s hilarious, because the very people he is trying to connect with in North America, the crowd he loves to be around (Nikki Minaj, Ludacris, etc) are the same people who laugh their asses off at people who dress up like Tupac.

I’m being sarcastic when I say this, because I don’t actually believe this, but if I was an SJW, I’d say a guy from England who lives in Monaco trying to dress up like Tupac is cultural appropriation at its highest level 😛

144

@titch, not implying anything but your response seems like I may have hit a nerve, apologies. Nothing intended. But if how Lewis chooses to dress bothers you so much, maybe put the PS4 controller down for a sec and step outside. Maybe in a real car. It’s a big world out there. Have fun.

145

@Twitch

Well it looks like you’ve gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick and have been trying to fit Hamilton into your mistake ever since.

In the Hamilton context , Still I Rise is a line from a poem by Mary Angelou – nothing to do with Tupac.

You’re welcome 😊

146

It’s a free world, so go nuts!

147

@titch

For me, it’s better to have style than none. But I guess if someone doesn’t have style they can’t see it in others. Can’t be helped!

🙂

#fivetimechamp
#getarealcar

148

@The Exigency

Nice post, good comments 🙂

149

And it’s MAYA Angelou, not Mary lmao.

You’re welcome.

150

I’d already corrected my mis-type before you posted Twitch .

151

All good C63. Just to be clear, this is all friendly. I’m not trying to have a go at you, not having a go at Hamilton. I have no problem with Lewis being a Tupac fan (I’d be a hypocrite otherwise), but when he puts on the full costume, that’s a little much for me. And not in a way that I’m offended or anything, more in the vein of how you would tell a friend that “they’re taking something just a little too far.” I’m not claiming to be friends with Lewis, I’m just saying that if one of my friends started wearing a black bandana with the knot in the front, I’d be like, “lol my dude, you think you’re Tupac or something? We get it, you like Tupac, but take the bandana off, you’re taking it too far.” Not in a serious finger wagging way, just a friendly, “bro, knock it off, you look silly,” sort of way.

Think about it this way. Schumacher is a hero of Sebs right, no secret. That’s fine. Go back and watch some of Seb’s victory celebrations since he’s been at Ferrari, he has had to consciously restrain himself from acting like Michael on the podium. I can’t remember exactly which race it was, but during the part of the ceremony when the Italian anthem started playing, for a split second, Seb had his fingers out like a conductor. He quickly retracted them once he realized what he was doing. Imagine though Seb went through that entire anthem wagging his fingers like Michael used to….people would be all over him for that. “What, you think you’re Michael?? You’re not Michael, your just Seb!” That’s how I imagine the majority of the reaction would go. Or what if every time Seb won, he did the fruity little two legged jump that Michael used to do on the podiums? Come on, you know you’d laugh at him for that. For whatever reason, there are certain hero’s in life that many of us look up to, but in terms of imitating those hero’s, there’s a line that can be crossed in terms of what is too much immitation. Crossing the line is not a serious offence or anything, but it does make one look rather silly to those who know what they’re looking at.

So it’s kind of the same with Tupac and the bandana. Be a Tupac fan, sing his songs, tell us how much you love him…but leave the bandana at home for when you’re stuntin’ in the mirror.

152

@Twitch

ps

I forgot to say that I had taken my info from an article written by David Tremayne (a year or so back) and that was my research.Looks like your research was better than mine 🙂

153

@Twitch

I stand corrected – you are right. My bad.

154

“Starin’ at the world through my rear view. Just lookin back at the world, from another level, you know what I mean?”

“Now I know the answer to the question ‘Do dreams come true?’ Still starin’ at the world through my rear view. Go on baby, scream to God, he can hear you….starin’ at the world through my rear view.”

“Haha. Now you know what we mean by starin’ through the rear view. The world, the world is behind us. Once a muh’fucker get a understanding of the game, and what the rules and levels of the game is, then the world ain’t no trick no more, the world is a game to be played. So now we lookin at the world, behind us. Niggas know what we gotta do, we just gotta put our mind to it and do it. It’s all about the paper. Money rule the world, bitches make the world go round. Real niggas do what they wanna do, bitch niggas do what they can.”

– Tupac, Through My Rear View

The fact you think a kid who grew up in the 90s and early 2000s would be influenced more by Maya Angelou rather than Tupac is a yoke, C63.

Mod, apologies for the “foul language”, I’m just quoting the song. Please feel free to censor the individual words that are offensive, but I’d appreciate the full quote being posted.”

“…ballin’ in the fast lane.

Hustle ‘til the morning, never stopped until the cash came.

Live my life as a thug nigga, until the day I die

Live my life as a BOSS playa’, cause even getting high

These niggas got me tossin’ shit,

I put the top down, now it’s time to floss my shit.

Keep your head up nigga, make these mother fuckers suffer,

Up in the BENZ burnin’ rubber.”

-Tupac, All Eyez on Me.

So Lewis says Tupac was his favourite rapper, and now he’s sponsored by Hugo BOSS and drives for Mercedes BENZ. He’s living out the lyrics of Tupac’s songs, and I couldn’t be happier for him!!! But for you to say he wasn’t influenced by Tupac, bruh…puh-lease.

155

“While the tears is rollin’s down your cheeks

You steady hopin’ things don’t fall down this week.

‘Cause if they did, you couldn’t take it

And don’t blame me, I was given this world, I didn’t make it.

And now my son’s gettin’ older and older

And cold

From having the world on his shoulders.

While the rich kids is drivin’ Benz

I’m still tryin’ to hold on to my survivin’ friends.

And it’s crazy, it seems it’ll never let up

But please, keep your head up.”

– an excerpt from a poem entitled Keep Your Head Up, by the 20th century American poet Tupac Shakur. According to Mr Shakur, the inspiration for this poem came from another poem, one entitled Still I Rise, by Maya (not Mary) Angelou.

Your favourite driver’s favourite rapper

You’re welcome 😜😎

156

Your correction and my correction appeared at the same time because of the way the site posts messages

By the way, here’s an article where Lewis himself declares that his favourite rapper Tupac was the main influence behind his Still I Rise tattoo.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1319400-lewis-hamilton-explains-the-meanings-behind-his-tattoos%3famp

That literally took one google search of “Lewis Hamilton Tupac”, and it was the 3rs article down. 30 seconds of searching proved to me you have no idea what you’re talking about lol.

Again, only a British bloke who drives a Benz could look at someone with a Still I Rise tattoo, a giant cross tattoo, a diamond stud nose ring on the left side, and a black bandana with the knot tied to the front…and NOT think there’s Tupac influence there.

C63, stick to what you know, like quoting Mary Angelou.

157

C63? What are you talking about?? I’m having a laugh at Hamilton for dressing up like Tupac, including the nose ring, the bandana, and the cross tattoo.

Still I Rise is also the name of a Tupac album.

If Hamilton would only use the still I rise tag line, fine. But he uses the tag line AND the costume, and that’s what I find funny.

Not my fault you have no clue who Tupac was lol.

158

I can hear the moving of goal posts Twitch – you were clearly implying that Hamilton took inspiration from Tupac for ‘Still I Rise’ and you were wrong.

ps

I do know who Tupac is – cannot say I cared much for his music, but I know who he is/was.

159

Lol this just keeps getting better. It’s amazing what you can do with google and 5 minutes.

Here’s a video of Lewis explaining exactly where he got Still I Rise from.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bUjCJSmsM6o

Directly from the horses mouth, he says he got Still I Rise from Tupac, who was his favourite rapper.

And this is exactly what I mean by you have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re from an older generation who did not grow up with Tupac as the soundtrack to your youth. Regardless if a person liked Tupac’s music, if you grew up in the 90s like Lewis and I did, you learned about Maya Angelou and Still I Rise BECAUSE of Tupac.

Has Maya Angelou influenced Lewis? I don’t know, probably. She certainly indirectly influenced him via Tupac. But for you to say I am flat out wrong about Tupac being the primary influence for Still I Rise, never mind the physical costume Lewis wears sometimes, is itself flat out wrong.

Hip hop culture is not your lane C63, and that’s ok. Just admit you were wrong, lmao 😂

160

Furthermore, I haven’t moved any goal posts at all. My first post on this topic, the one with the hashtags, made specific reference to Lewis’s costume during the FP session in Austin. My first post was about Still I Rise AND the costume being from Tupac. I haven’t moved any goal posts, you just apparently have selective reading.

161

It’s fairly well known that Hamilton has a cross on his back with angel wings and the words ‘Still I Rise’ running across his shoulder blades.

The inspiration for the giant tattoo he credits to a certain deceased rapper and it wasn’t just a quick job either.

“I mean, the idea originally came from Tupac who was my favourite rapper,” he said.

I was wrong? LMFAO

Here, I’ll link it again

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1319400-lewis-hamilton-explains-the-meanings-behind-his-tattoos%3famp

Before you made your bold claim that Tupac had no influence on hamilton’s style, or his use of the phrase Still I Rise…did you even bother to do a quick check to see if you were right?

Like look at you. Flat out claiming I’m wrong, when google and Lewis himself clearly indicate that Tupac was in fact a major influence.

You’re just making stuff up as you go, just like your assurances that there are no conspiracies in F1.

You have zero clue what you are talking about.

162

@C63 Thanks mate. Always a pleasure to read your posts.

163

What an unexpected comment!!!!

164

all of hamilton’s fashion launches were sold out kenneth, are you still laughing at his fassion sense?

165

Ha haa, oh Kenny here we go again.

🙂

What’s a better look for this site do you think?

A big love in for a FIVE time champion, or a place for bogans to whine like a stuck pig because they’re so full of hate for Lewis and sadness at their golden boy’s failure?

Let the salt, tears and emo feelings out mate. I know it feels like someone has stood you in a barrel and told you to pee in the corner but just have a few VB and stick the barbie on. You’ll be ok. Maybe. At least, I hope one day you can get over it, but it’s not looking good is it?

🙂

xxx

#saveit

166

What an unexpected comment

Said the actress to the bishop 🙂

All joking aside, I must say that I am pleased to see that you have retained your dignity on this thread, and you haven’t allowed your disappointments from the weekend to spill over into any sort of bitter or mean spirited remarks.

167

😀 😀 😀

What an expected one! Oh Kenny, you do crack me up!

168

@kenneth

Hamilton has just won the WDC for the 5th time. Only the 3rd person in history to achieve this monumental feat. How should his fans behave in your opinion? I doubt you’ll answer, but if you do, please bear in mind how excited you were when Ricci one just one race earlier this year.

ps

Did you see redlines comment above where he praised Hamilton and acknowledged his achievement – despite not being a fan. Anything you feel you could learn from his example?

169

Kenneth. Surely you didn’t expect to read the comments of the race report where Lewis sealed his fifth world title, and NOT see nice things being said about him?! Are you sure your level of expectation is realistic?

170

If ever there was proof that this site has become nothing more that a ‘Hamilton Fan Club, the outpouring of self congratulatory and saccharine comments seals the deal. How very very sad.

171

Verstappen underdelivered in the first half of the season because he couldn’t keep his nose clean, but has overdelivered in the 2nd half. Despite what he may say himself, its clear that he is taking a more calculating approach to his racing. I think that he’s now matured enough to mount a genuine championship challenge next campaign. If Honda can stay on their current trajectory we could be in very a very good 3 way fight.

172

LH44 5x WDC – WHOOP DE DO….

173

Here’s the radio messages that were played on Sky TV during the closing stages, related to Max:

Lap 63 – “Umm yup, check my engine. If we need to turn it down, turn it down.”

Lap 64 – “I have massive brake pulling, I need to something something the lap.”

Lap 65 – “Again, if we need to turn it down, please do it.”

Christian Horner on Lap 67 “….and obviously concerned now that issue could be mirrored on Max’s car.”

Martin Brundle – “He’s just done a couple 1:19s, not exactly coasting along, perfect pace.”

CH – “uhh ya we’ve obviously turned everything down as best we can, but the problem is you don’t want things to get too cold, brakes and things like that, so he’s continuing to circle at a pace to close out the remaining laps now.”

3 Laps to go, Max’s Engineer – “And we have now turned the engine down Max, for reference. Bring it home.”

Max – “Ok”

Engineer “Thank you”

MB – “Can they do that from the pit wall???”

Crofty – “but muh-safety”

F1 is a yoke 😂. Step right up step right up, place your bets ladies and gents, place your bets 😎

174

Is it a joke? So we already knew there is software running the engine, and the engine is delivered with certain specs and max capabilities. If you’re Red Bull, will you tune the software aggressively or not? The more aggressive the less reliable. You could even tune it over the specs.

What I did not know is that the software supports different modes and can switch between them while racing. I don’t really care the activation method, by button in the car or by remote signal.

So the Red Bulls cars were in “party mode”, Ricciardo’s engine failed, and they switched to conservative mode. I’m not sure if I really dislike that they can start in aggressive mode, monitor everything closely, and can switch back if necessary. It puts them closer to Mercedes and Ferrari. You could argue that they try to get the maximum out of their engine, that’s all.

It does redeem Renault a bit. Yes their engine is slow, but the reliability issues might be Red Bull going over the specs. I wonder why Ricciardo is the main victim of the reliability risk they are taking. Maybe him and his team take too big a chance while tuning the aggressive mode, to stay up with Verstappen.

175

You may not care, but the pitwall controlling which mode the PU is in is supposed to be 100% against the rules

176

You missed the obvious answer….by default to your favored driver. That’s OK of course, just wanted you to know that there is peer review.

177

Twitch, as noted, if you really sit back and give this some thought there is absolutely no reason for that choice of language in these communications. If it is controlled from the cockpit, it should be a simple procedural ask by Max.

As in:

“What mode should I choose to preserve the car?”

“Am I in the best mode to turn down the car?”

“What is my gap to P2? 12-13seconds, with 6 laps to go? I’m going to turn down the car, OK?”

Or the wall should have just come on and said “Ricciardo had a PU failure. We’re 13s clear. Switch to THIS mode to preserve the car to the finish Max. Confirm.”

The only reason for the choice of words here is indiscretion and/or they started to choose these words a while back to seem like cover or to blur the understanding of these communications where Max is asking for outside of the car management. Either that, or the FIA know they can’t fight this point, so they let it slide, even though the regulations clearly state otherwise. Plus there are other indications of what is possible here with this. And really, how would any of us know if the cars receive a few bits of info? That device is so small, and binary, it is entirely possible to code that onto a wire and hide it in a car. In fact it would be easy.

We don’t have the full unbroken radio exchanges here, but the ones we have certainly don’t indicate that Max is changing settings inside the cockpit, as the rules indicate. They indicate changes outside of the cockpit.

178

Yes, and when you break the rules you better do it so obviously 😉
Tin foil now dictates the complete text for the drivers i see(bee)

179
Clarks4WheelDrift

Yeah, you’d think if Max could flick a switch or two to turn down the engine himself then he would have either done it or been told what settings to use to change it himself.

Surprised nobody has asked if they turned Dans up to keep Seb behind, if it blows it blows, job done 😉

180

There’s a soundcloud file with all the radio messages – Max was given a couple of instructions to change settings related to the engine and fuel flow. After that they said “we turned it down”

181

@ Jeroen…where’s the link?

182

Do you have a link to this file?

183

Yes there is: https://soundcloud.com/matt-betros

Full team radio from Max, Daniel and Lewis.

184

Max – if we need to turn the engine down, just do it

Max- if we need to turn the engine down, please do it

Pitwall- ok Max , we’ve turned the engine down

185

Thanks Rage. I’ll have a listen to that today after work.

186

@ Rage F1… many thanks for the link. The only problem i have is that i cannot decipher clearly what they are saying!! If only there was a printed transcript. Hopefully someone will post it. Thanks again. I didn’t know that this site even existed.

187

@ twith6…yes, i’d like to see that as well

188

You do know that there is treatment for your driver addiction affliction.? It consists mainly of a battery and a couple of leads……

@kenneth PS. did you REALLY just suggest to Aveli he should kill himself? REALLY???

If that’s true, you’re an utter embarrassment to your nation.

189

There you go Mr. Salt. Link above. I presume you’re going to listen through it all and come back and tell us what you found? Although maybe not huh? You’re always right.

190

What an unexpected comment !

191

For real. Look I know most of the crowd around here loves to read one sentence, read between the lines, draw their own conclusions about what people are getting at.

At no point have I fully said “Redbull Conspiracy!!” All I’ve said, in all my posts, is that the radio transmissions, in the context we heard them, seem funny or fishy.

If there is more evidence or data or whatever out there that can help provide context to the radio messages we heard, then I’m all for hearing/seeing that additional content.

So if there is a soundcloud file somewhere with more radio messages that could give more context for the ones we heard, show it to me!!

Additionally, this all begs the question…if these are simply out of context messages, who is the goofball in FOM who is deliberately airing out of context messages, and what would their motivation for doing so be? Could it, could it possibly be to “spice up the show,”?? MSNPC News, CNN, and the WWE all like to use out of context messages to spice up the show 😛

192

Congrats to LH for becoming one of the sports Greats.

Very disappointed in SV though. Wasn’t,t it Seb who got Danni Kyviat the boot. I will forever remember him going to pit wall and talking to Horner. Now its him making mistakes , only difference is that his incompetence has made him spin. I do wonder what would be being said if his mistakes had caused others to spin round??

193

Seb talks to Christian – that’s your evidence?

194
Clarks4WheelDrift

Bottas gave him a fair old biff at the start in Mexico and he didn’t spin, maybe he’s adapting 😉

To be fair, Lewis made a bit of a mixed attempt at the start of his pass on Kimi, nowhere near alongside put putting his front wing at serious risk.

Kimi could have easily turned in on the racing line, clashed his rear with the front of the Merc and Kimi would’ve been blameless, but Kimi has too much class for it.

Brundle even commented Kimi turned out of the corner.

Engine impact reduction at altitude aside, are the Mercs now the worst for tyre wear because of the blocked wheel slots that cooled their tyres?

What about Grosjean, lapped 3 times!

The gaps are a joke, Hulk needs a miracle and a 4 car pile up at the front to take his first podium!

Remember when a customer Merc Williams actually raced the works Mercs in Austria and Silverstone with Massa and Bottas. Heck Massa even dared to take a pole position. Is this what started the rot and big gaps to customers?

195

hamilton hasn’t just become one of the sports greats. he drove better than the entire f1 field before he raced in f1.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lseNan1ODY8

scored a record 9 podiums in his first 9 f1 race’s.

so he was already a great back in 2007. 11 years and 5 titles later and he’s only just being considered as one of the greats?

he is surely the undisputed greatest of all time!

197

its all the car

198

Not yet !!!

200

iman42……so all hamilton has to do is say that he believes he is the best of all time and all journalist will describe him as such?

201

FIRST, Hamilton does not believe it. Hamilton thinks and will always think Senna is the GOAT

SECOND, I believe that Hamilton needs to statically match Schumacher before the GOAT tag can legitimately be given to him.

THIRD, Just saying

202

I am getting how you got to the 5 stars, aveli…

Congrats anyways with the 5th title for your Hero.

203

am glad your admire those shiny golden 5 stars of mine and thanks for congratulating but i merely state the truth. i don’t think i am a fast learner but i learned this by witnessing hamilton’s on track performance. out of this world, never seen before in f1 but you guys still say “not yet”? when will you acknowledge it? what does it take? it’s over 11 years since.

senna was called the greatest of all time and he only won 3 championships.

those guys invented a new phrase “impossible to compare drivers of different eras” as soon as hamilton burst into the scene. that alone should confirm that he’s the greatest of all time! until hamilton, no one mentioned that it was impossible to compare drivers of different eras.

hamilton is so great he has caused mutation in brains.

204

@ Aveli….goodness me. two responses in one thread. You might like to address your comments back to that ‘big headed overblown goose ‘the Exigency’ yes, we can all call each other names now seeing as some posters are getting away with it. He doesn’t for one minute understand my throwaway line re ‘shock treatment/ aversion therapy’ like you have correctly interpreted it.

205

kenneth………is that is how you were treated?
i do not suffer from any mental health illness.

206

@ Aveli…I will break my pattern of not responding this one time. You do know that there is treatment for your driver addiction affliction.? It consists mainly of a battery and a couple of leads……

207

Good points re the reclassification since the arrival of Hamilton on the F1 scene.

208

You need the right car for that. Ham had.. others not.

209

hamilton guides his engineers to provide him with the right car. he is not responsible for providing other drivers with cars. he only helps his team of engineers. other drivers are free to do the same. unless you are claiming that they are not as good at doing that either.

210

*car = talent

211

Bottas picked up a trophy too. With his fastest lap in Mexico he’s now wrapped up the DHL Fastest Lap Award. He’s two up on Ricciardo, and has one 2nd fastest lap whereas Ricciardo has none.

212

Another data point to go on my “fastest laps are a pointless metric” chart…

213

Odd isn’t it, as he has seemed to struggle after the early part of the season, when he was very unlucky.

Great season by Lewis though and likely his best. Good to see an improved Max as well and even better that he now admits some of the change that was needed to allow him to further prosper.

214

It’s not really odd, it’s how F1 is these days with the tyres.

It’s normally drivers that are doing very well put on new tyres right at the end and of course, get fastest lap.

Fastest laps haven’t meant anything since around 2008.

215

i didn’t know you paid attention. so you know that these tyres were introduced in an attempt to slow hamilton down. we all saw how he abused them in the 2007 & 2008 season…

i wonder what they’ll do next to further slow him.

216

What did they mean before 2008?

217

there wasn’t as huge a tyre advantage at the time the fastest lap was set.

218

There goes the DNF/Fastest lap double that i was after for RIC…
I note that RIC did have the fastest lap not long before his “clutch issue”…which was kind of surprising at the time given his tyres were 40 laps old, but having Vettel on your tail and getting a double dose of DRS from backmarkers will do that for you….

Another one for the trivia buffs…
How often has the DHL fastest lap winner been a car that has also been lapped by the leaders?

219

For your info LKFE there was actually one other occasion this year where the DHL Fastest Lap award winner got lapped – K-Mag in Singapore who I should say was lapped twice finished in a dismal 18th place in that race.

220

Another way to illustrate that the tires are a joke is that all drivers during the race are really just coasting around in eco tire savings mode during the race. Best qualifying lap time is typically a full 4-5 seconds faster compared to the fastest lap time set during the race!

221
Clarks4WheelDrift

Is it bad that I read your ‘clutch issue’ as dutch issue 😉

222

They give participation trophies in F1 now?

224

Get in there Lewis! World champion…Again!
When I first saw lewis race in 2006 in GP2 I knew he had talent. I knew he’d make it to F1 and I was pretty sure he would win a WDC. Never in a million years did I think he would be here. The journey has has been one hell of a roller coaster…loads of fantastic highs, quite a few lows but boy…what a ride! and he ain’t done yet. Even if you don’t win another race Thank you for the memories. A true great.

225

he certainly isn’t done until he embarrasses them to admit that he is the undisputed greatest of all time.

226

aveli. you just post the same thing all the time. We get it. you worship him. you love him. you dream about him. Cant you see how you embarrass yourself?

227

f1 races are repeated 21 times per season. are you complaining?

228

at david….you can post what you want, any time.

229

I’m sure we all enjoy the wide variety of subjects you choose to comment on, such diverse topics as;

1, Is Lewis a terrible person?

2, Can Lewis win races without team orders?

3, Why none of Lewis’ wins count.

4, Why all of Lewis’ cars have been at least 5s faster than anyone elses.

5, Why nobody likes Lewis

6, Lewis.

230

Neither can you David.

231

interesting season…
with lesser number of parts available this season, top 2 teams still are performing at top level..i was expecting Championships to be decided based on reliability but that does not seem to be the case.
WCC was clearly in reach for Ferrari, if not WDC cause of Lewis in other car and also getting support from Bottas heavily.
“Season of ‘if only’ for Ferrari”

232

reliability has been eliminated into history. it no longer is part of f1.

233

want to tell that to Ricciardo?

234

ricciardo knows, why do you think he said his car was cursed?

235

Great ‘redemption’ victory for Max. Perfect execution but for one thing: he should have gently knocked over the 1st place sign. Sooo hoped he’d do that!! Look, I’m not petulant at all when I do this…

236

That’s funny Lem 🙂

237

Congrats to Lewis on his 5th WDC. 👏 👏 👏 That was good calculated race from him, staying out of trouble. One of his best seasons in recent memory. He was clearly the better one as Vettel admitted and it was nice to see Vettel congratulate his rival.

The race was a bit boring, I almost fell asleep through the race. Great start from Max and a good drive until the chequered flag. Next year could see Max and Leclerc joining the title fight. That would be really awesome to watch. 😁

Roll on next season!

238

honda extend their woes to red bull in 2019.

239

HAMILTON BECOMES FIVE-TIME F1 CHAMPION

Congrats to Hamilton for entering the realm of the very greatest. I think it is deserved, especially after being challenged by Ferrari this year and responding to that in emphatic fashion. The also correct and deserved headline which is missing though is: MERCEDES BECOME FIVE-TIME F1 CHAMPIONS. I don’t mean the constructor’s, I mean that for 5 years in a row now they came up with the world champion: Rosberg once, Hamilton 4 times. Not to take away from Lewis, a stretch of titles in a dominant car is usually needed to reach an impressive number of titles: Schumacher 2000-2004 Ferrari comes to mind. Only Fangio collected his titles switching factories every other year.

240

only fangio demanded the fastest car, taking over his teammates car to win a championship while his teammate had a chance of winning that championship. another driver not be challenged by a teammate.

241

and hamilton demands that his team-mater move over for him

242

you know very well that hamilton didn’t demand that bottas move over for him. wolff did. hamilton would still have won the championship without those points. so go enjoy yourself.

243

david, I thought we were all supposed to ‘move on’ and not talk about team orders anymore?! But seeing as you’re so insistent on talking about them, how about an explanation from you about how it was completely different for Ferrari to use team orders at Cota than Mercedes to use team orders at Cota?

244

“Fangio is on a level much higher than I see myself. What he did stands alone and what we have achieved is also unique. I have such respect for what he achieved. You can’t take a personality like Fangio and compare him with what has happened today. There is not even the slightest comparison.”
– Michael Schumacher upon winning his 6th WDC tittle.

“What he did in his time is something that was an example of professionalism, of courage, of style and as a man, a human being. Every year there is a winner of the championship, but not necessarily a world champion. I think Fangio is the example of a true world champion”
– Ayrton Senna

“You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are.”
– Juan Manuel Fangio

No matter how much and how frequent you try to downgrade Fangio’s achievements, his race results speaks for themselves, from first in 1940 and forward to his last in 1958. There is a reason why other WDC winners refer to him as El Maestro.

And you don’t get a race winning percentage in F1 above 46% just because you steal your teammate’s car. It was common back then to share the car material in the team upon mechanical problems with one of the cars. All teams/drivers did that. And the myth a you tell it about Fangio steeling his car away from a teammate who otherwise could have won it is more nuanced described by the Brit Pter Collins himself with integrity intact as: The 1956 Italian Grand Prix was a Formula One motor race held at Monza. It was the eighth and final race of the 1956 World Championship of Drivers. Coming into the race, Juan Manuel Fangio had an eight-point lead over Ferrari teammate Peter Collins and Jean Behra, driving for Maserati. Fangio retired with a broken steering arm, while Behra also had to pull out. Luigi Musso, also driving for Ferrari, was told to hand his car over to Fangio to ensure the Argentine’s third consecutive title but he refused. Brit Collins, with the opportunity for his first world championship, sportingly handed his car over to Fangio during a routine pit-stop. Fangio finished second, behind Stirling Moss, giving himself and Collins a share of the points for second place and ensuring his fourth title.

Fangio raced in a period with a much more diverse type of races, duration and cars to master and he was uniquely successful in them all. A true all time great. So why be so negative aveli? Why cant you celebrate other motorsport driver’s accomplishments?

245

you can try with all your might but i promise you, i admire fangio for his achievements. i admire all f1 drivers for their achievements too. i have never tried to downgrade anyone’s achievements. i stated facts. fangio did deman the fastest cars he did leave teams for the fastest cars. he did take over his teammates car to win a championship while his teammate had the chance of winning the same championship. he is “the godfather of f1” in hamilton’s words but hamilton still drives his car better than anyone has ever driven in the history of f1. he destroyed the then youngest ever reigning back to back world champion in 2007, as a rookie. he has achieved highest no one has ever done! i realised he is the best ever f1 driver over his 2007 performance alone. it’s taking a while for others to realise this but it will happen. that’s why i day every knee shal now and every tongue confess……..

i celebrated schumacher’s 2000 victory when i baught a brand new red car by painting the wheels white because ferrari has white wings at the time. i admired montoya when he challenged schumacher, admired alonso when he our performed schumacher over the 2005 & 2006 seasons. now i admire hamilton for our performing the entire f1 history of drivers.

nothing wrong with that my friend but simple truth.

i am confident that you will accept it in the end. just a matter of time.

246

That’s true. Another asset of the greatest drivers: being very greedy.

247

Daniel Ricciardo: extremely unlucky. Totally capable of driving a podium or better home, but apparently that’s asking too much? This is a pretty fascinating season, but just imagine Ricciardo finishing and spicing things up even more! You cannot even say he’s having a bad season. Apart from a couple of races he’s having a non-season. His streak of incredible bad luck just continued yesterday, as if it’s business as usual. Unfortunately Danny’s side of the coin is on the other side of Max’s coin coming up aces every time. What a joke of a car, nothing is possible this way. You feel Red Bull are just at a loss explaining the huge difference in reliability between the cars of their two drivers.

He’s not completely losing the plot, he’s not bad talking the team. If anything, his reaction to excruciating adversity has been measured and very mature.

[Literal transcript of two mid-2017 posts by me. I only switched the names of Max and Ric.]

248

Hi Daniel

Fair post from a fair minded poster. Vielen Dank! Am looking forward to winter testing and although it might be just a sneak preview it will be intetesting to see how the Honda and new Renault engine stack up against each other. Don’t forget Hanga Sieben in Salzburg. Never know your luck in a small city. You might run into Max there. Salzburg is pretty special at Christmas time. Bit cold though.

249

Its too convenient to make that comparison – consider this: Red Bull are in F1 for the marketing opportunities, speed = Energy drink. If they were in the position that Williams or Mclaren are in they would pull from the sport. Think about that.
The last thing a marketing director would currently want is RIC outscoring VER when he is about to depart the fold, it would actually come across as a failure of their brand. I read somewhere that Webber doesn’t trust Horner and Marco comes across as an aggressive ego. They will be quietly satisfied with RICS fall. But lets not use the word ‘conspiracy’ as that’s too hollywood. Let’s look at the often referred to term ‘out of a driver’s control’ and if we could be bothered, make a list. It would be extensively long and it would reveal endless opportunities for ‘control’. Those that think F1 is squeaky clean because of the massive amounts of money invested are delusional, its works quite the opposite (the history of professional sport!!!)
RIC seems to have a warm heart and wants to leave Red Bull with a warm and fuzzy farewell, it’s not going to happen, albeit other than on the masks of his Redbull colleagues and the media.
‘Control’ is an absolute desire of the powerful, and if you have the power you want to use it.

250

lets not use the word ‘conspiracy’

Now that’s too convenient, Lucia. Make your choice: believe in (a world with) fair racing, or don’t. If you don’t that IS your conspiracy for you. Sure, their is some bias in several teams: HAM at MB, VET at FER and VER at RBR. But if like RIC you are not the designated 2nd driver, you are not going to be foiled in all manner of tricks and ploys by your own team. Takes into account company missions like promoting your young guy. That’s what I believe. And frankly, even from a conspirator’s point of view it’s over the top now with Ricci isn’t it. Statistics can still easily handle this (far and low part of the Bell curve), whereas conspiracy theories have to resort to ever more outlandish scenarios: let Max shine, foil Daniel, rub it in, really rub it in now, OK keep rubbing it in, punish the bastard, cut him some slack, sh*t he stole Max’ pole that’s more than we bargained for, get the message across now in no uncertain terms, ouch our expert says it’s getting too much people are getting suspicious… what’ll we do next guys?

You wanna be part of that world? And if yes what’s the point of still posting here?

251

@ lemwil…Have you ever read a book entitled ‘True Grit’ written by Mark Webber, ? If you believe that there are no teams who are open to result manipulation then i;m surprised that you still post here.

252

@kenneth, The book’s called ‘Aussie Grit’. ‘True Grit’ is a western starring John Wayne. Another example of your confusing fiction and reality?

253

give some indication as to what it says about results manipulation?

@redline

Long story short – a driver gets beaten by his team mate and blames everyone else.

254

@ Redline…I won’t spoil it for you. It’s a good read and what it does is outline how systematic pressures can undermine confidences in drivers. The book is easy to find on the internet and you should read it.

255

@kenneth – haven’t read it, but will put it on my list. Can you give some indication as to what it says about results manipulation?

256

@kenneth, no I haven’t. Did come across Jensen Button’s book last week though.

257

Exactly…thankyou – kisses

258

that is such a good book kenneth. I am actually reading it at the moment

259

@Lemwil – your reaction is welcome. Keep the belief Lemwil, it’s what we all want…surely
You’d have to define what you consider to be ‘fair’ racing to make your argument. But that in itself becomes subjective. I’m aware of my conjecture, but try not to diminish my right to make a statement by suggesting I shouldn’t post here. Have you suggested that to anyone else here, i doubt not.

260

Reply to kenneth:

I always try to keep an open mind. Doesn’t mean I should feel compelled to read books by conspiracists describing how the rows of planted explosives on the 9/11 buildings were detonated or why it is we see no stars in the fake moonlanding pictures. As for Webber’s book, I just might read (parts of) it. Expect it to be quite convincing. He’s got a talent for reporting as you can tell by his present occupation. But without independent corroboration that still means very little. Unfortunately present-day competitive society will cause lots of people to get harmed. And even more to feel harmed. I know several people who apparently met with great adversity and lots of persons treating them badly, only to discover that when hearing the other side (the alleged perpretrators) an altogether different picture may emerge. In sports at the highest level this will happen even more frequently. So until further notice, in the case of Webber and Red Bull, I’d say that in order of decreasing plausibility we have the following:

 – ambitious driver who cannot handle things not going his way, gets vindictive

 – ambitious driver who alienates himself from management (human processes, liking/disliking, occurs everywhere) leading to some real disadvantages, but perceived blown way out of proportion

 – one-time ‘once in 10 years’ scandal I alluded to in one of my earlier posts

 – persistent year-in year-out scheming against Aussie drivers by RB as advocated by you.

Instead of you demanding I read Webber’s book I’d be interested whether you can supply any independent observations, like non-RB drivers at the time reporting “what’s happening to Webber at Red Bull now is a disgrace”. Also interesting what Horner and Marko have said about this, if anything. Unfortunately from just one side you cannot build a convincing case.

261

Good post Lemwil – I particularly liked your 3 JA onF1 options.

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@ Lemwil…What you have failed to do is mount a reasonable response to the so called ‘conspiracies’. Firstly you need to understand that there are ‘conspiracies’ and there are ‘conspiracies’ . They vary from the subtle to the Sherman Tank variation. All conspiracies start with a ‘kernel’ of truth or the possibility of truth’. That’s what leads to speculation. If you’v followed F1 for any great length of time you’d be well aware of what has transpired over time. You should read, if you already haven’t, Newey’s book. It espouses the credo ‘whatever it takes’ in the broadest sense. One current example i would illustrate for you is the current Toro Rosso imbroglio. According to Hartley he was initially given equal status to Gasly however he has become vocal in saying that he feels that he has not been given the ‘support’ that he felt was appropriate and that Gasly has been given preferential treatment. Now is this a conspiracy ? Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t but when more than one person engage inactivities to the detriment of another person that fits, broadly, into the definition. Keep an open mind.

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@Lucia, thanks for your reaction! My suggestion to you was in no way meant personal. And it was a question rather than a suggestion. It’s just so annoying and frustrating to see increasing numbers of people come up with sinister power schemes. Not just here but all over life. Maybe it’s a general ‘Existenz Angst’ brought about by our heading towards a society where all of us become interconnected and interdependent, losing part of our individuality, free choice and lots of control. There is also a widespread loss of trust in governments accompanied by fear of what those in power might do (to us). I guess if you see these trends all around you then for many it’s ‘natural’ to reason that extreme power control scenarios are taking place at every level – including F1 team decision making. But this should not be the case and I don’t think it is. Mind, I’m not naive. From time to time things grossly out of order will happen. But the ease conspiracy posters will invoke grand theories with for the most trivial adversity is mindboggling to me. And very suspect, because it’s always their drivers (actually maybe even read: they themselves) who are the victims which are out of control.

So why my question ‘why still post here’ which was in fact directed at all MMC and RMVP (RedBull Managed Verstappen Promotion) adherents? Well, I thought this forum is about racing; competition between drivers, teams and factories. Mostly however, competition between drivers. The point is: these theories completely destroy the notion that more or less overt competition between drivers and cars is taking place. If I thought the MMC was true I would not post here anymore. If all is arranged then what’s the point? Only thing left to do is try to convince everybody, which is more of a mission or a quest rather than just posting diverse comments. I would not be bothered, but IF I was, that would be my one and only message. Oddly however, conspiracy posters will just as easily slip back into writing very valid conventional technical and driver analyses as if nothing had happened – usually when their driver does fine. So often the conspiracy is a handy tool to pull out from time to time. They’re just not consistent as far as I’m concerned.

Same applies to the RMVP. If I really believed in it then all discussion regards Ric vs Max becomes pointless. There is no comparison possible because over a long period things are rigged. Everything is orchestrated by Marko & Co in grand manner. Out any fun posting how Ric is doing as compared to Max, etc. Likewise, I would probably leave for the time being, or start a one-issue campaign to try and convince everybody.

Lucia, my question was not personal and neither is this lamentation. In my ideal world jaonF1 would have no tiresome conspiracy posters. In my 2nd best ideal world jaonF1 would have 3 versions:

 – jaonF1(1): jaonF1 proper, the way a 20th century site would be visited. No conspiracies, maybe once every 10 years a scandal uncovered. Known in conspy circles as ‘ja for dummies’.

– jaonF1(2): jaonF1 for fans prone to various conspy scenarios with limited impact. A specific driver is targeted by a team. Still possible to discuss various matters. RMVP fans would feel at home here, nobody would ever argue their suspicions are probably nonsense.

– jaonF1(3): hardcore jaonF1 conspy territory. MMC is just a starting point. Everything is rigged, just a show to subdue and fool us all. Still avid discussion going on but less about drivers, they’re pretty inconsequential. Just companies trying to fool each other, and what are the dark organisations backing them? Or is it just one big government ploy? Or the CIA who clearly entered when the Americans took over?

I’m sure we all know where various posters would feel perfectly at home.

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@ Lucia…Keep up the good work. The sheer arrogance of some posters is over the top.

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I think RICs response has been perfectly warranted in the circumstances but if this had happened to VER or, God forbid, Lewis it would be over diving this, cracking that, can’t build a team around him blah blah blah. I’m all for letting drivers react as human beings but let’s have the same standards across all drivers.

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Medication time Deano…

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First of all: well deserved WDC for LEwis. Still the best on the grid . Classy reaction from Vettel, while obviously very disappointed after a year where he could/should have taken the WDC.

Masterclass from Max. Very disappointed and not classy on Saturday, but in a league of his own on Sunday.

I feel very sorry for DannyRic, really would have liked to see him on the podium, but somehow it is not happening. 8 DNF’s in 18 races, Max had 8 in 32 races, Bottas 8 in 116 races.

I am getting very annoyed with the RIC fans on this forum, the conspiracy theories and the anti Max vibe. Why would RBR want to throw away a 1-2 result? Why do that after allowing him to get pole position. Why does preferring Ricciardo mean hating Verstappen. I am a Verstappen fan, but have no problem in admitting that Ricciardo has beaten him last season on Sundays. Now the tables have turned, even though the difference in points is exaggerated due to DR’s DNF’s, but still, Max is the quicker guy, even if Daniël is perhaps the more likable guy. Let’s face that reality.

Last point: really do not understand why Mercedes continues with Bottas, preferring him over Ocon or Ricciardo. Useless second half of the season. Did not manage to win a single race.

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Last point: really do not understand why Mercedes continues with Bottas, preferring him over Ocon or Ricciardo. Useless second half of the season.

Agree Bottas has been very mediocre in the 2nd half of the season, since France really. He has his speciality track, Russia, in amongst many poor races.

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Clarks4WheelDrift

Bottas because Mercedes want total manipulation and control over their marketing.

They’d rather take the title have controlled boring wingman races to give their ideal image to market and sell road cars, than have great racing between two similarly matched racers that would take the title anyway.

They will never be able to do a Lewis and Max or Lewis and Alonso, they probably view the McLaren Senna Prost era as a marketing disaster rather than sheer brilliance.

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ricciardo beat the entire red bull team by hiding that pole lap from them over the entire weekend until the last lap of the qualifying session. if he had revealed that racing line to them, verstappen would’ve used it and gone even faster so they repaid him with a doggy start. we all know the start procedure is software controlled and we have never seen ricciardo bog down the way he did in mexico city on sunday.

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Daniel didn’t bog down he slipped his clutch too early creating too much wheelspin.

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Okay then… if you buy that explanation, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Dirt cheap price too. LOL !!!

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Have never hated Max, though he will never be a favorite and Daniel is my second driver behind long time Fernando. Charles will likely get my surplus cheers next season as his smoothness is my style of driver.

That said, apart from the occasional blip, I have been able to enjoy the post Monaco Max and even more so since he belatedly told the truth about changing his style, when it was quite obvious to anyone with open eyes. He made similar changes post the Singapore debacle last season as well, but never admitted to them, even though Marlo spoke of altering his style.

The pace was always there and don’t think many argued that, though he constantly put himself in positions where collision was inevitable. He is now avoiding such situations and the results are there for all to see.

That said, pretty sure that Daniel has been worse off car wise in each of their seasons together and much more so this year. That he has only had 2 collision related DNF’s during that time and that both involved Max is significant. Let us hope that silly and petulant Max is a thing of the past and we can all enjoy watching him race.

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i like verstappen and the way he drives, sometimes like hamilton. especially in the rain.

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Why would one be annoyed by a driver’s fans? Have fan mate, serious.

Well, Bottas is what Mercedes needs. Brings enough points for both championships, quiet, a wingman.

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Fans are good, but social media hooligans not..

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They prefer Bottas because he is the new Rubens B. of F1. Is never going to win a WDC and plays 2nd driver perfectly.

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Wasn’t Barrichello actually a more consistent well performing 2nd driver compared to Bottas? I still find Bottas a very mediocre driver when considering the car and team at his disposal. Mercedes have not realized that many front row lock outs with Bottas in 2nd and we haven’t seen many 1-2 race wins either with Bottas. He is simply not good enough.

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If you compare the qualifying gaps between Lewis and Valterri and Lewis and Nico, they are broadly similar. The only difference is the car advantage Mercedes held over the rest has gone, allowing competitors to slip into that gap.

You can see the same thing happening at Ferrari when they had Rubens and Michael, in the years when the car was significantly faster than the rest, Rubens would finish second in the championship, in the years when it was closer he would drop down the order.

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Bottas took over for Kimi in the Ruben’s role in 2018.

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