F1 Winter Break
2017
Here today, Lagonda tomorrow? Aston Martin adds F1 engine guru to 2021 concept design team
Red Bull Racing
Posted By: Jake Boxall-Legge  |  01 Dec 2017   |  2:00 pm GMT  |  134 comments

Aston Martin is increasingly worth watching in Formula 1 as it deepens its involvement in Red Bull Racing and appears to be ramping up as a potential engine supplier from 2021.

It has added powertrain engineer Joerg Ross to its roster.

Ross, formerly Ferrari’s engine chief, will join Aston Martin’s powertrain concept development program as it considers joining the Formula 1 grid as a full-blown engine supplier, having recently embarked on a technical and commercial partnership with Red Bull Racing.

After the FIA and FOM announced their plans for a brand new engine formula for the 2021 season, Aston Martin has been attracted by the promise of lower-cost power units, and has begun looking at concept designs for the new rules cycle.

Currently, Luca Marmorini – another former Ferrari recruit – leads the program, having initially been brought on as a consultant. Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer confirmed that Marmorini is now working with the sportscar marque full-time, and has started working on new concepts for a potential Aston Martin F1 power unit.

“I’ve engaged Luca full-time now to help us with developing the concept engine,” said Palmer to Autosport.

“He started his concept thoughts just last week so it’s fairly early days, but he’s a good guy to have onboard and lucid about who he thinks we should work with, who we could work with, from his experience what didn’t work, so that will save us time.

“I’ve got Joerg Ross, he’s already working for me on our internal engine development and is ex-Ferrari Formula 1. He will work on the F1 project.

“So I’ve got two good people now to start thinking about our concept.”

Should Aston Martin join the Formula 1 field, it would be a popular move with FOM and Liberty Media. Having just four manufacturers – Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda – supplying engines, Liberty Media backed the prospective new regulations to attract more automotive attention.

“There are several premium manufacturers that I would like in F1,” F1’s Managing Director of Motorsports Ross Brawn told Bild.

“Porsche is one of them, but also Aston Martin and Lamborghini. That’s why we need to create an environment that’s attractive to them.

“With today’s power unit, no manufacturer is interested in getting started. That’s why we have to make it cheaper and easier.”

Although the new regulations have been devised with bringing new manufacturers to F1 in mind, the specifications are largely rooted in the current power unit ruleset.

Although current manufacturers would need to design new V6 internal combustion engines for the new regulations, there would be the scope within the engineering departments to draw on knowledge gained from the previous cycle.

While the overall costs per unit would decrease, the engine formula’s announcement was met with disdain from Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari.

However, Palmer contests that the three were privy to prior discussions on the 2021 engine ruleset, and should not have been caught by surprise.

“I’m surprised they have been as vociferous as they have been because I think it was pretty well signalled within those meetings,” Palmer continued.

“I don’t know whether they feign surprise. I don’t think it was a huge surprise.”

“In those meetings, you had the incumbents and you had the challengers. The challengers are aligned and the incumbents are aligned.

Palmer hopes that an agreement between the manufacturers can be achieved, and recognises the need for a simplified engine format for F1’s long-term future.

Although road relevance is a key part of manufacturer interests in Formula 1, Palmer was aware that the minutiae involved in energy recovery was not necessarily something of interest to the spectator.

“Everyone around the room accepted that the sport is broken. And we need to bring back the entertainment.

“The entertainment is about drivers racing, it’s not about the heat recovery on an engine.”

Aston Martin’s ties to Red Bull have arguably strengthened of late, after announcing a tie-up between themselves and the Arden team – owned by Red Bull team principal Christian Horner’s father – to form R-Motorsport, which will run five Vantage V12s in the Blancpain GT Series.

Although this tie-up may indeed be a case of Horner – who was in attendance at R-Motorsport’s Thursday launch – using his influence to keep Aston Martin close, it may also represent an opportunity elsewhere should Red Bull ever decide to leave F1.

Creating an environment to attract new manufacturers into Formula 1 without upsetting the current entrants is certainly a problem for F1, Liberty Media and the FIA to solve.

How things develop between Formula 1 and the manufacturers will be of great intrigue over the coming months, especially given Formula E’s ability to attract the likes of Porsche and Audi – names that F1 has coveted for years.

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134 comments

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1

Aston actually competed in grand prix racing in the late 50s.................the less said about that the better (mind you, Porsche and Lambo in the early 90s when they supplied engines didn't exactly cover themselves in glory, and as for Peugeot in the mid to late 90s)...........tricky business, making mr piston and mr valve actually work in the world of competitive motoring.........

2

The entertainment is about drivers racing, it’s not about the heat recovery on an engine.

I disagree.

3

@ DB...I disagree.

4

So you think F1 is about heat recovery of an engine? Or you don’t think F1 is about driver racing?

5

F1 is about Engineering. Drivers are only necessary components.

6

@ DB all the 'heat recovery' in the world won't make for interesting racing. Neither will the best drivers in the world, without 'heat recovery', be the best in the world. It's the combination of the two that makes for the best driving in the world. However i do agree that in regards to input percentages by degree more drivers are capable of lifting the trophy at the end of the year.

7

It is about finding balance. It’s not a video game. What F1 is today and what it was once is because of too much engineering influence. The only way F1 to get back to it’s former glory is to reduce the engineering influences. Otherwise, instead of buying tickets for the races, people would buy a console once in every 5 years.

8

We should keep increasing the heat recovery on engines then, since entertainment is now somehow proportional to how much heat is recovered.

And I'll be able to take my children to the race and say "look kids, see how much heat they're recovering? Isn't that spectacular?"

9

Lol LukeC. Well all I can say is that people are entitled to their opinions. In my view too much engineering influence is the cause of the gap between the top and bottom teams, boring races and ugly cars to say the least.

10

I think you mean to be sarcastic, but I believe your example is exactly what you should tell kids.
Of course, there can be fun too. You can also tell them: "Look at how that dumb*** driver plunges that piece of wonderful technology into a wall!". ¦¬)

11

children nowadays are more impressed by technological advancement so f1 should aim to feed their desires..

12

The young online iPad generation already have their own F1 world carved out, and they don't need high-paid eccentric F1 drivers, costly PU development programs or inconsistent race steward decisions to go racing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I--xYlIQF0k

The real future of F1 may be a scary departure from what once was.

13

no one’s interested in once was. everyone who watches f1 is interested in what it is. what is actually happening. we have all already seen what’s happened. all those making f1 decisions are trying to make it better, not take it back to the past.
they called clay slates tablets in the past. everyone prefers ipads to the clay slates of the past. you can always close your eyes and imagine readingbfrom one of those clay slates rather than an ipad. your choice..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rhmGaCjpoBY

14

I have always suggested FIA should make their own decisions. Being dictated by the big teams is one of the many reasons for F1’s downfall.

15

all teams are in f1 to have fun making a profit so it’s in their best interest to ensure f1’s appealing.
don’t forget why manufacturers are in f1. the fia can therefore not afford to ignore interests. they’ll only remain in f1 to achieve their objectives..

16

I think it's a myth that children are impressed by technology. All the children I know seem to take technology for granted. They use their iphones and iPads to play games and for social media, but they seem to have no interest whatsoever in how that stuff actually works.

It seems to me that it's the thrills that the technology can facilitate that they're interested, not the technology itself.

Furthermore, I've had many discussions about cars with my students and they all seem to be into muscle cars or Japanese turbos and they keep telling me how the older cars had so much more character than the new cars. Even the girls seem prefer the older cars that make a bit of noise. And what's more quite a few of my students have told me that they want a simple car that they can work on and fix up themselves.

This is what the reality is. By that I mean the reality unfiltered by the political correctness police that we all are pressured into succumbing to as we get older.

17

here is more evidence that cara are often chosen based on technology.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/polo/100615/new-vw-polo-2017-review

18

Aveli, cars are seldom chosen based on technology unless that technology facilitates thrills and excitement. More often those thrills and excitement have something to do with other people and with relationships, which in itself is an emotional thing.

Technology cannot be the reason for choosing something since the part of the brain that deals with technology is a relatively new accretion, whereas the part that deals with people, relationships and emotions is much older and therefore much more intimately wired to the much older brain stem and the entire nervous system.

That means that when a teenager wants an iPhone, they might only be interested in the specs because the better and newer the specs the higher the status he or she will have among his or her friends. And the reason to have the phone in the first place is to be able to text people and access Facebook more efficiently.

Likewise with F1, the actual racing, the drama, and human interest aspects will always trump technology. And no amount of Technolgy will ever be able to make up for the absence of those elements. In fact, it would not be inaccurate to say that in the main, it is these elements that drive the sport, and the technology is only there to facilitate those elements.

I would be willing to bet that if you got rid of the PUs and replaced them with v10s or v12s, you would see no drop in viewership. In fact, you might see a rise.

But replace the cars with autonomous vehicles and I would be willing to bet that the great majority of fans would switch off, never to return.

19

all car manufacturers know why their customers buy their cars. because of this they all have research laboratories to find new tech to improve their products for their customers.
you are just being blinded by the fact that you don’t like the winner winning. get over it.
why are all engine manufacturers insistent on technological advancement in f1. all those new returnees, have made it clear why they returned and we’ve heard from them so where do you get your information from, pluto?

20

@ Luke C...An extremely well crafted post. I enjoyed reading that and i fully concur.

21

@ Luke C....that mirrors my discussion and observations with my grandson. Despite all my talk about the wonders of modern tech he is like all the other geeky gamers....excitement and thrills but the actual driving tech means zippedy doo dah.

22

isn’t it strange that all machines are purchased based on their specification? why have cars of late adopted traction control, air conditioning systems, antilock braking, more aerodynamics, more fuel efficient engines, halogen headlamps, bigger wheels, etc etc?
why are cars compared by their specifications? engine power, fuel afficiency and accessories?
you are only complaining because a certain driver is winning and you can’t cope with rupture going on in your head.
even murray walker was forced to say he is one of the greatest on camera, though he could hide the anger on his face and in his voice.
shame!.

23

@ Aveli...all those elements you mentioned were in the original ark!!!! You really must keep up if you want to post relevant opinions.

24

all said and done, f1 fans like f1 technology. drs mgu-k mgu-h, fastest pitstops, we all love it. every car is sold on the spec. every child who chooses a phone make their choice based on the technological spec. nothing else. i know for certain that all those not in favour of the current spec f1 cars is simply because the winning driver is not their favourite. they are calling for changing, hoping that it will bring a different result. how silly they are.

25

We all love it? Phew...it's really hard work isn't it? Dear oh Dear.

26

Please enlighten us as to how you know for certain that those in favour of change are only voicing it because their favourite driver isnt winning? I'll help, you can't!

27

you and your friends who have posted on here are find it excruciatingly agonising to accept the winner.

28
Torchwood Mobile

I agree with Aveli.

Other teams besides Merc have had multi-year successes, but the it is only the team employing a certain driver that gets accused of killing the sport.

29

What an ill informed and myopic viewpoint some people have.

30

you kenneth and lukec to be specific!

31

I don't particularly care who's winning. I just want F1 to be a sport where half the field have a realistic shot at winning, instead of just 3 or 4 drivers.

32

i know all those who have posted on here hoping for change, including yourself, are not happy about the winning driver winning and that’s enough for me to draw a conclusion..

33

@ Aveli....Given your precise ability to ascertain the real reason behind our opinions that support changes, specifically those that promote CFL engines, are just camouflage, then i have a question to put to you. If as you say, the real reason is that we are pathologically averse to Hamilton/Mercedes, then so must be Liberty and Ross Brawn, after all they are the ones making the proposal!!! Are you condemning them to the same degree?

34

Wait so your assumption is based upon three posters opinions on this site?. What about the millions that have turned off, hundreds of millions, since the hybrid era began. The era that has overseen both Redbull and Mercedes dominance. Based on you're logic then there must be 320 million people that werent fans of either Vettel or Hamilton. Kind of shatters the little myth you like to believe that Hamilton has done wonders for the sports popularity doesnt it.

35

You do?????

37

@aveli
Are you DB????
Because it was DB I posted to🤔

38

Who isnt he James....Not the first or last time time its happened. Now wait for it, we all know whsts going to happen next 😴

39

@sars
Its getting ridiculous! He’s not even good at hiding it.

40

Is Aveli DB, Inshah,JJJJJJJ and a host of others to numerous to mention hahahahah

41

@kenneth
Strange he answers to a post I sent to DB😏

42

I have voiced my suspicions to James as to who i believe is the true voice behind this individual however when i do its never made it onto the thread. Let's just say there is a wide 'spectrum' of reasons why i think its one person in particular.

43

@sars
Out of curiosity sars, who do you think aveli is, I’m starting to get suspicious🤔

44

Read between the lines of my comment you replied to James. The answer is in there👌

45

@sars
Hopefully James will get on top of it. Must be hard for him! But it seems like Aveli has got so many names in the hat that he’s losing count.

What is the saying again....

Oh the web that we weave
When we practice to deceive

46

@ sars...secret servers buried deep in the 'stans' no doubt. hahaha

47

No, you do not.

48

yes i do..

49

Eric replied to DB aswell!!!!!

50

What adds Liberty Media will not be in F1 beyond 2020 ? ,If they do , they would only be the puppets to Marchionne / Toto. I am bit surprise Mr Allen doing a rain dance he knows Marchionne and Toto will rule the roost .

51

Sebee, is that you?

52

Sebee you are lovely man, but at times you do shoot from the hip ,back of my parts of the woods means built hitting the target is very remote. When I said Mr Allen is doing a rain dance, lets put it in more simpler way, he's pushing the barrow for somebody.? saying goes ( there's a reason for everything we do. However in fair dinkum department the Ferrari and Mercedes have spent $ US in the Billions on their R & D and do you think Dieter Zetsche and S. Marchionne would simply wipe that investment of and start all over again ? I don't think that will happen anytime soon. Sebee, when I said you shoot from the hip when you said the imminent polarisation of electric cars . perhaps you have watched the Jetsons bit more then you should have, take for example Mr Musk of Tesla Motors, I detest the guy simply because he is spending a public monies not his own, since 2010 Tesla Motors has not made a profit, He latest Jewel in the Crown Tesla X a coupe , one car was sold in the last three months, where by General Motors over 5 million, for those who profess the electric & driverless cars the way , Sebee would you buy one and go to your place of work or what ever in one ? or you are admirer of American saying, lets go boys I am right behind you , but you go first.

53

Number 11 in the series, "Strange Aston Martin Facts": iconic owner David Brown on whose watch the company was sold off at a discount preferred a Jaguar for his own use.

54

And Mr. Enzo Ferrari himself said the Jaguar E-Type was then most beautiful car ever - this in the days of his GTO.

55

Am I the only one still unconvinced that the new engine formula will save money? It says above that “current manufacturers would need to design new V-6 ICEs for the new regulations”. That would cost money and in a free market would be passed on to PU customers, even if the MGU-H is abandoned. And with only 10 teams why aren’t 4 PU manufacturers enough? I think the only way to bring costs down in F1 is to disturb the technical regulations as little as possible.

56

@ Petrol Ted...'why aren't four manufacturers enough'? The answer is simple.Over the last five years only one of those four manufacturers got it right, one is slowly getting it right, another can't do the business in either power or reliabilty and the last one is a disaster! The manufacturers are allowed to choose who gets their engines therefore a super team like Red Bull are denied supply as they pose a threat to the supplier. Now that is tantamount to race outcome manipulation. So long as the cost of creating and racing and servicing of these overly complex engines is maintained then the same teams will control the same outcomes. Under the new engine design protocols Independent builders will be able to offer the same engines to anyone and everyone therefore taking the racing to a level where a top team with a top alternative/new specified engine can compete with the big four manufacturers. I believe that Liberty's new engine mantra, 'cheaper,faster, louder' is the way to go. I absolutely dislike the idea that great chassis builders driven by excellent drivers are denied the opportunity to win as a result of manufacturers choosing teams to supply that won't challenge...or can't challenge them in an open and transparent field.

57

liberty media need to put all their big brains aside and consult common sense. the engine manufacturers are in business to make a profit and work hard at increasing their profit margins so it is naive to think that they can change the rules to force them to reduce their profit margins. every change they introduce would be used as an excuse to raise their profit margins. the only way of reading prices is the introduction of an identical product of equal or superior quality at a competitive price.
they should be looking for an engine manufacturer who can recover more energy from the engine and brakes rather than cutting back mgu-h.

58

@ Aveli....You've made my day hahaha. Your latest is on a par with your 'waste gate' comments. Have you ever heard of the term 'IP' ? Obviously not otherwise you'd not have made such a comment. IP is subject to extremely stringent rights. The FIA would not dare broach those rights as the legal ramifications would be huge. Likewise Liberty. What you are suggesting is a joke surely......?

59

i thought you paid attention to f1 and saw photographers taking pictures of cars for the sole purpose of being able to copy what others are doing? ip has very little use in f1 because the guidelines are written by the fia..

60

You do know that it is impossible to see the 'secret' elements with a snappers gear from the outside....... You are straying even further afield now.....dreamtime.

61

@ Aveli...so over a period of five years not ONE independent engine builder has stepped up to the plate!! You know full well the reason why. The way forward is 'cheaper, faster, louder.

62

Kenneth. Only one indy stepped up in the preceding five years, and they failed miserably.

63

no, that not the way forward and you know it. it’s more like the way backwards.

64

Teams will spend all the money they have available. If the engine is less complicated, there will still be ways to gain an edge by spending money on development. You can lower the minimum cost of entry, but you can't stop teams spending, if they have the money and are allowed to spend it. The only way to reduce costs is to limit spending.

65
Clarks4WheelDrift

Fair point, for back in 2013, before they created monster gaps between teams, ruined the racing up front with these farcically expensive to develop, overly complex for F1 engineers to play catchup on, fake green manufacturer's marketing tools.

By all means look to future tech, but simplify and to quote Nico Rosberg, "for sure" the tech has to allow racing for victories and poles and to allow othe teams and engine devs to join and compete.

66

Clarks, are you sure it was so much closer in 2013? Seb won the Abu Dhabi Gp that year by 30seconds, the gap between fastest RB and fastest none RB was half a second in qualifying and Seb won the title with a handy 155 point advantage over Fernando having won the last nine races mon the bounce!

67

Interesting points you raise.
4 engine suppliers should be enough (i still maintain that there should be an Engine Championship) with 20 cars but I guess the hope is that Porsche, Lambo and AM will field their own teams... bring the total up to 24 or so cars on the grid.
The big money is in software development... making the driver responsible for deploying ERS will save squillions on writing the algorithms on when to use the energy in the batteries. Anyway that’s how i see they will save money... and it’s more about reducing the barriers to entering the sport for new manufacturers than looking after the costs of the incumbents... plus trying to make things more equitable between the haves and have nots.
Cheers

68

I ageee, especially about driver-only ERS deployment. And I don’t favor the incumbent PU makers; just can’t believe that they and others making PUs to a new spec is going to reduce costs for the customer teams.

69

Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini!

Now things are getting sexy❤️🤪😄

70

What we are witnessing is in fact a two pronged tussle between the new owners and the manufacturers. It is all about 'power' really. Power to control the series and 'power' to the rear wheels. Once the new engines were blueprinted back in 2012 [ ? } the manufacturers basically took control and that has grown to where we see it today.It is wrong and the reason for that is once power is entrenched it takes a massive effort to wrench it back. The new concepts proposed by Liberty are an excellent compromise re cost, power and noise. Of course it will take investment $$$ but so what ? The amounts expended will only be a fraction of what has already been spent and the current engines will have had a seven year shelf life anyway. If independent engine builders can be aligned then the hegemony exercised by the 'big three' can be slowly dissected until we get a better base platform. I support everything that Liberty has done here and i certainly hope that they are successful. We, fans, followers all will be better served with a more open and exciting series once more engine options are made available to the teams. Whether or not it is true but last weekend one of the interviewers on Sky [ ? } said, in regard to Williams, that if they needed to take a brand new PU it would cost around one million pounds!!! If true then that is absurd and just shows how ridiculous this has all become. The teams need liberty from engine supply tyranny!

71

So it’s about control, not saving money. In that case the advocates of the new PU formula would help their cause by saying that this change is good for the sport and they don’t know what it will cost or how much the customer teams will pay for new-spec PUs.

72

@ Petrol Ted...they have already! Cheaper, Faster, Louder. Reduce the manufacturers ability to choose which teams get what engines. On the cost front, i think that you'll find that the new designs,broadly speaking, will be considerable cheaper. Brawn is not going to say that if he is going to be made to look a fool when the MGU-H reduction actually either maintains or increases the costs. Why do you think that Audi/Lamborghini/Aston Martin/Cosworth/Illien group are all showing signs of interest if the new engines either cost the same or more? I personally think that their [Liberty ] cause is already in positive territory despite the Renault/Ferrari/Mercedes led revolt. New engines decrease their level of control and their competitiveness across the full field. CLF engines would also be attractive to new team entries. I'm all for at least two more teams on the grid providing more slots for great young drivers.

73
Tornillo Amarillo

While the overall costs per unit would decrease,

Taking my experience buying office supplies, I could say this 🙂

5 power units = $USD 8M EACH
4 power units= $USD 10M EACH
3 power units= $USD 13,33M EACH (they will say they are more expensive because they are technically developped for being more reliables...).

So where is the economy ?

I don't think manufacturers are going to lose any money.

74

i’n with you on this, after all they’re in it for a profit.
liberty should build their own engines to the mercedes standard, or more and offer it at a more competitive price, making it possible for the independent teams to compete at the front. the manufacturers would soon run with their tails between their legs..

75

@ aveli...that's just silly. No one has been able to build an equal engine to the Mercedes level after five years! What makes you think that 'liberty' could?

76

i am so sorry kenneth..i thought you’d learned to pay more attention to the sport? those who are trying to build engines to compete with mercedes aren’t able to because they don’t know what mercedes is doing. on the other hand, liberty, via the fia, have every detail on those mercedes engines so why wouldn’t they be able to build a competitive engine?

77

@ Aveli.....why do you think that McLaren were fined $100million ? For being in possession of IP protected information. You simply amaze me sometimes...

78

that mclaren fine was an fia political fine. i feel your pain.
if it was a legal matter ferrari would have taken the matter to court.

79

Pay more attention you say??? Um, in case you hadn't noticed Liberty Media Corporation is a mass media company not an engine manufacturer. I'm honestly unable to comprehend how you come up with this rubbish...

80

comprehension must be your major problem.
nobody is born an engineer or a journalist. if liberty media wants to build an engine to compete in f1 they can. we all know a famous soft drinks company which put together a race team and won 4 double f1 championships on the trot.
i wonder why you struggle to pay attention to the sport. is it the pain you suffer from realising who the winner is?
all they need to do is gather qualified personnel and build a suitably equiped facility for them to work in.
they have all the knowledge to do it. all it requires is the motivation to take that risk..

81

Did that soft drink company, as you put it, go out and build an engine did they? Actually, they brought a team formally known as Jaguar and used an engine supplier otherwise known as Renault to power them to the World Titles they won. Clearly you seem bereft of knowledge which is why your comments arent taken seriously. I'll miss you when Lewis retires 😥

82

liberty media can put together a team to build a facility in which they manufacture competitive engines. like it or not, it is possible.

83

@ Sars...sometimes i wonder. I usually don't bother too much with him but sometimes i find it irresistible to ignore. At least it helps to pass the time until next season.

84

@ Aveli...I refer you to my earlier post, regarding IP, which you should've read by now. This latest is just too silly for words...actually i am now questioning why i would bother to respond......

85

what up? not in f1. every team has a team of spies to find things for them to copy off other teams. why do you not understand that? mercedes had a combustion technology which all the others copied. what happened to ip then huh?
learn that the fia provide the specifications and teams design their cars around them.

86

@ Aveli hahahaha..... Renault/Ferrari and Honda's spies must be the worst in the business. Time to pension them off. Abject failures, all of them.

87

they don't have hamilton to show them how to do it.

88

Your infatuation with Lewis and the lengths you go to singing his every virtue are disturbing. Clearly you don't have all the oars in the water😕

89

how far does your hatred of hamilton go?

90

mclaren can show you how many race wins they’ve enjoyed since hamilton left them for mercedes. even eccleston can tell you more about him. i’m confident that even you don’t know more about f1 than eccleston..

91

why don't you just accept that you are only posting these because you don't like the fact that hamilton is winning?
all teams are copying off each other..
adrien newey said he used to walk into the park ferme, near the ferrari car and stand at a side of the car he's not interested in to draw the ferrari mechanics away from the part he's interested in so that his photographer could take pictures for him to have a better look at later. i honestly feel for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfUx1Dyqm3I

92

The more the merrier Aston Lamborgini Porsche ....
The one I would like to see make a comeback into any racing is the "Lancia" name.

93

Ah!! The D50, oh for that again!

94

@ PK the one team i wanted to see back is Audi [Auto Union] who raced the original 'silver arrows'. That would make me happy....

95

@kenneth
Who also dominated in the years they were in F1😉

96

@ james k....Yes, Auto Union and Mercedes were the cream of the crop. Weren't they stunning [rear engined] beauties? V12's and V16's that could hit in excess of 300kph back in '34to '39 and beyond although the second WW rather rudely interrupted. Those weree the days ...iron men and wooden ships!!!! A rather glorious era with so many legendary drivers taking part.

98

I think my favorite quote about these engines is, “ entertainment is about drivers racing, it’s not about heat recovery of an engine”.

That’s pretty much sums up what people like Sebee and some of us are talking about for a long time. I hope FIA and Liberty stand their ground and go ahead with the 2021 concept. It’s not because I think the 2021 concept is good (don’t know enough to judge), it’s because the sport is broken and these engines have a lot to do with that.

99

fia and liberty better ignore your comments and allow f1 to move forward into the future with natural progression rather than go backwards. mug-h is clever tech and recovery from the actual brakes would be amaising!

100

FIA doesn’t need to worry about my comment. They have to deal with people like Aston Martin CEO first before start listening to millions like me. iPad is also a clever tech where you can play a lots of video games, doesn’t mean we should all forget how play real games and rush to buy an iPad. These engines and too much of engineering influence is turning F1 into a video game. No one is suggesting going backwards, the suggestion is to get rid of gimmicks and making the drivers race without being controlled by the computer.

101

a funny comment indeed, are you sugesting the fia should ignore renault ferrari and mercedes and listen to the aston martin ceo instead? how can aston martin replace renault ferrari and mercedes?
you’re just digging deeper and deeper!

102

The longer this PU thing goes, the more I feel F1 is painted in a corner. I've concludes that new rules mean nothing. Higher review turbo is pointless, as turbo flattens the power curve and more ERS means likely double current levels. Silliness continues.

I honestly think they don't want the noisy engines back. They don't want to work around them. That takes priority over entertainment. Ethically it could be argued, it does. But it is clearly an indication that the crude rawness of F1 is long gone. It was going in V10 era already, but to look back on it...it was soo much better than that we have now.

103

good observation..f1 marches on, into the future..

104

HERE TODAY, LAGONDA TOMORROW?

groan.

105

Sound like something the Sun would say!

106

we aw williams at the back of the grid for many seasons. a place i never thought williams belong. never did i think mclaren would fall so low for so many seasons, with all their resouses in tow. now we are about to watch redbull fall, playing their game of valkyrie with aston martin. horner must be blinded by so many pound signs to be taking such decisions. bonkers!

107

@ Avedli...have you been on the 'sauce'?

108

i know you like the brown variety.
you of all should know that i use my keyboard as i please and don't pay attention to anyone who didn't pay towards my pc, trying to tell me how to use it.

109

Thank your parents for buying you a PC from all of us here as we are eternally grateful for the pleasure of your infinite wisdom....

110

do your parents buy you pcs?
no wonder!

111

Sounds like madness to me after what Honda have done to their image

112

Don't worry once another James Bond movie is released they'll be alright again!

113

Well, the car from Spectre was fantastic. I just wish they’d stop destroying them 20 minutes in to the movie

114

If giants like Renault and Honda, both with a huge experience and history in F1, already can't keep up with the difficuties and expenses of building a successful and reliable F1 powerunit, I can't see how a small player like AM can build a winning engine. Yes, under the new rules the pu's will probably be less complicated, but still.
For their latest roadcars they source their engines and electrics from AMG, now they want to build an engine all by themselves?

115

@ Bob Eager...I think that you'll find that Aston martin have said publically that they may take the lead builder option but it would be in partnership with either a Cosworth/Illien framework with some external funding. The MGU-H has been touted as ridiculously expensive and complicated therefore by taking it out of the equation the costs are substantially reduced. The people making those statements are leading technical experts so if they say so then i'll go with the flow. If they're lying then why would the likes of the big tree, Ferrari/Mercedes/Renault be threatening to leave. Road relevance is a very weak argument, almost totally without merit.

116

not true, mercedes and ferrari clarified that taking nguyen-h out would mean designing a new engine so costs would go up, not down..

117

I would like to see Ford in there but they have no plans.

118

Red Bull Ford has a nice ring to it!

120

More like a rather 'pedestrian' ring to it.

121

lol....how about "the interceptor" back in the day long before the fast n' furious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p08uxmigZmo

122

Redbull Porsche sounds better👍

123

Porsche or Audi sound very cool!

124

@ james K...Red Bull.... anything but Renault/Honda would sound infinitely better

125

It’s simple. We must think laterally. What we need is a balls to the wall single seat series that whilst not exactly competing with F1, gives a chance for aspiring drivers and engineers to make their mark before progressing into the top tier. We used to have totally bonkers F5000 which featured future F1 drivers with basic back yard racing tech. Cheap, noisy and exciting. That should satisfy everyone. Problem is, everyone is so toffee nosed about motor racing now you get a nosebleed just visiting an F1 paddock. Let’s bring it back to the people, people.

126

I just don't get this. AM has very little in the way of F1 pedigree and F1 is not something that many associate with AM.

Endurance racing, Le Mans, tours, yes. But F1, no. It'll end badly. Like Jaguar.

Vanity project.

127

And Red Bull's success?

128

Largely bought. Billionaire bought an extant Jaguar operation, which bought the best aero-designer, who built a car around a quick driver, and away they went.

129
Torchwood Mobile

Formula One has always insisted that it had elements of road relevance, throughout all my years of watching, however it is only this era of social media, where I have been able to see vocal fans act as if it is something new, and be vociferously against it.

Having been impressed by many years of Schumacher dominance; thrilled during the Red Bull dominance (at least while both drivers were being treated fairly); and enjoyed the Mercedes run, I find it reprehensible that the idea of the "sport being broken" only applies during Merc's multi-year successes, but nobody elses.

130

very well written, those who claim f1 is broken are those who don’t like the fact that a certain driver is winning. there is nothing else to it. long may they enjoy..

131

@ torchwood M....I am double dipping here but i meant add/qualify my final sentence with the explanation that the quote re 'F1 is broken' and agreed to by all at the meeting was taken from the very article that generated this thread. What you are saying is that those opinions of all the Team Principals 'is reprehensible'?.....

132

@ Torchwood M...I think you'll find that the Red Bull successes were not written into the rules. Their adaptation of the blown diffuser was there for all to see and copy if they so chose...that along with other creative elements that were either legal or not. In the latter case they were either removed or at the very least outlawed in amended R & R. The problem we have faced over the past four years of mercedes domination is that the problems have not been able to be surmounted due to the R & R being written in such a way as to curtail development in the early years. That and the lack of expertise of the other manufacturers such as Honda/Ferrari and Renault. Something is drastically wrong when after 5 years of development no one has been able to trump the mighty mercedes engine. That is why some think that F1 is broken. This same terminology was used in the report with Andy Palmer who stated that an entire room of F1 personnel gathered to discuss the new engine proposals voiced that same opinion.

133

you’re only saying f1 is broken because you don’t like who’s winning.
i love f1 as it is!

134

whatever happened to the redbull’s blown diffuser ip?

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