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Abu Dhabi analysis: Three things on my mind as the 2017 F1 season comes to an end
Posted By: James Allen  |  26 Nov 2017   |  6:25 pm GMT  |  524 comments

The F1 racing season is over now and all thoughts turn to the 2018 championship and a clean slate for all the teams and drivers and for the sport as a whole.

There is so much going on in F1 at the moment and we will look in depth at all aspects of where the sport and teams are heading during the winter break, but here are three things which are top of mind as we leave Abu Dhabi for home.

Bottas classy, but Hamilton not at his best
I asked Hamilton after the race whether this was a case of ‘well done, Valtteri, enjoy the moment, but in Melbourne it will be business as usual from me’. He admitted in the press conference that he has been celebrating his fourth title and has let his focus slip a little as a result.

What’s interesting about this is that he made it clear he didn’t want a repeat of 2015 when he let Nico Rosberg get a grip in the final races of the season after Hamilton had wrapped up the title and then carried that momentum into 2018.

Bottas has rarely been the competitor for Hamilton that Rosberg was in 2016, but it was only his first season with the team. In general Bottas has struggled through his F1 career for consistency. It was consistency that won the title for Rosberg last year and for Hamilton this year and nothing less than perfect execution every week will do if Bottas is to step up next season to the next level.

I shall be fascinated to see whether he has another level in him. Likewise with this Ferrari team; they stepped up from 2016 to this year better than anyone else, but can they find the inspiration to do it again into 2018?

It also shows that for a driver, if you are not 100% on your A Game, even with a driver on Hamilton’s level, then you lose.

F1 needs more competition at the front
The TV director focused largely on the battles in midfield today, understandably, because there was plenty of close racing, such as Massa and Alonso, Grosjean and Stroll as well as Magnussen and Wehrlein, being some examples.

It highlighted that F1 can produce good racing even on a track like Yas Marina where overtaking is difficult, but the problem is that the gaps at the front are still too large and between the front three teams and the rest is a gulf.

The points table reflects it. Between Red Bull in third and Force India in fourth is 181 points, Red Bull has almost double Force India’s tally.

That is the focus of attention at Liberty Media with support from the FIA.

It will not be easy to achieve, but it is essential for the long term future of the sport because we have to get to the point where a team like Force India can aspire to win a race, just as a lowly Premier League football team can win against Chelsea or Manchester United.

F1 is entering a delicate moment
F1’s commercial boss Sean Bratches and Head of Marketing Ellie Norman revealed the new F1 logo today in a press conference before the race and it was rolled out to the world on the podium.

It was a strong visual statement of change from the old regime to the new.

Officially the reason given for the change was because the old logo doesn’t work on digital content and on screens due to the dead space between the F and the 1.

Of course it is a very visual reminder that F1 is changing its culture away from the Bernie Ecclestone regime and that needs to extend well beyond things like logos to the way it makes decisions and the quality of the decisions it makes.

Liberty have had a busy year, making lots of small changes and only a handful of big ones, but despite the generally more relaxed and upbeat atmosphere around the F1 paddock, the mood music from the teams is that there is ‘concern’.

Things like prize money reducing because Liberty have invested money in new staff, facilities and events like F1 Live, niggle the teams.

Teams don’t feel that their share – which comes from a percentage of net profits – should be affected because of these things.

More seriously the plans unveiled for the new engines post 2020 were badly received by Ferrari and Mercedes in particular and they seem generally to be spoiling for a fight.

We are heading for a showdown and the key to it will be to present the changes which are unpalatable to Ferrari in such a way that they don’t react emotionally.

Reading the tea leaves, I can imagine a set of circumstances in which Sergio Marchionne takes Ferrari out of F1. If it happens it will be like what happened in US open wheel racing in the 1990s when Tony George took the Indianapolis 500 out of ChampCar and both sides lost.

The series and the event have never recovered from the fall-out from that debacle. They are now incidental to the global motorsport story, where prior to the split they had the must-watch series with Mansell, Andretti, Fittipaldi, Unser, Villeneuve and the rest battling it out in high level, very close racing.

F1 would survive without the red cars, but would be diminished.

Time would tell what the effect on Ferrari would be, but they seem to be going more like Porsche and heading into larger volumes and a broader range of models, so they would probably back themselves to be able to maintain appeal to prospective and existing customers without F1.

We will go into more detail on all of the above and more over the winter.

What do you think? Leave your comments in the section below

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The logo leans backwards not forwards – F1 in reverse??

Gavin Pendergrast

The F1 world championship will always be the pinnacle for a single seater driver, whether Ferrari or Merc are involved or not. History doesn’t write a a byline in the records saying they weren’t there so all remaining teams/drivers will be gagging for a chance to compete when they are not around. There is enough money in their bonus payments alone to fully fund a couple of extra teams!

I am an F1 fan and have been for 20 years not because of Ferrari or Merc are there but because I love seeing humans do things that are extraordinary. Through those years I can pinpoint moments (passes/hotlaps/crashes) that stick with you not because of what colour the cars are, but because of the drivers taking risks and exploring what they are capable of. Its the same reason I watch any sport.

Its also the same reason why esport can never evoke the same emotion in a viewer, but that’s not saying it won’t be hugely successful.

I would suspect that Liberty will have a pretty accurate business model sitting in the wings if Ferrari/Merc do decide to exit. They probably had one done before they brought the sport, especially given they knew the contracts would be up in 2020.

Technology has already overtaken the sport of driving. Merc in particular are a tech driven company and they treat the driver as just another component of the device. They have a head of ‘human performance’ along side ‘head of aerodynamics’ or ‘head of engine department’ It just doesn’t excite me. I love racing and just because F1 has lacked that at the pointy end doesn’t mean it can’t have it in the future

Reduce the cost through introducing standard parts, make the cars look/sound spectacular and put the driver at front of everything. They are the heroes, they are the humans we are all drawn to watch.

Actually I feel the halo introduction will hurt the sport more than anything else happening at the moment. I know it’s a safety device but a single seater race car has never had something obscuring the drive like the halo does. It disconnects us with the hero. I’m sure if you gave the driver the choice they would all choose not to have it and take the risk of injury or death. They are not playing tiddlywinks after all!


Considering the points gap between Vet & Bot, it is likely Bot would have been ahead, if Ferrari would have allowed Rai to race Vet on equal terms.


They changed the logo for digital content? Because it clearly hasn’t worked online for the past 20 years… I mean, yes, the website itself has always been pretty crap for the past 20 years.
I thought they would opt for 7 different variations of the logo; the real logo, the more real logo, the slightly less than real logo, the hyperlogo….
Like everyone else has been saying, there are bigger issues at stake in the sport right now and people generally dislike change (I hate the new logo btw) but I’ll get over it. The halo? not so much.


A lot of people have been posting about the new logo and HT tracks having too much run off. I dunno the old F1 logo 20 years. Ferrari and Mercedes logos much longer. I dunno what to make of that yet.

It sure sounds like bigger problems are ahead.


When anything changes it takes a while to adjust and get used to it. But when I first saw it i’ll Admit I didn’t see F1 ! Or actually get what it was. So that says something in itself !


The logo is the least of Liberty’s problems – first they have to make the whole show more entertaining. It is only when you watch other types of racing that you realise how mild and predictable F1 has become.


James, I firmly believe the points gap is due to the current points system.
Every motor racing event should base their points on the MotoGP system.


How about a logo that incorporates the “Halo”?


I think real well of JA, but my reaction to a notion that Ferrari could leave was not so charitable. But… things change a lot. Maybe Formula E, road-car battery tech takes off and Ferrari makes a bold move, goes to Formula E. To read that back, it seems preposterous, but it wasn’t so long ago that it seemed even crazier to imagine bashing this out on a pocket-sized, $100 computer.


Mr. James,

Re: New regulations on PU for 2021. (just a bit off topic)

Will the new regulations affect the efficiency of further PUs? i.e. elimination of the MGU-H and other revisions that the FIA seeks to introduce.
In other words:

.. or maybe the FIA expects that by 2021 PU will be more efficient (compared to the current benchmark) even without MGU-H?


It seems rather ironic that F1 could lose the prancing horse to attract Porsche. I rather think a compromise will be found unless the three pointed star board decide that they have proved their point and quit.
I think it is more likely that Mercedes will quit at the end of the Concord agreement because F1 will be made so they can no longer win and Mercedes are in it to dominate. Those two are incompatible so Mercedes will quit while on top. It is difficult to predict how Ferrari will react to Nercedes withdrawing from F1


2 events happened last weekend. The final round of the F1 season, and the final round of the Aussie Supercars championship.

I challenge anyone who is a fan of actual RACING, and just an F1 clinger-on enthralled by the glitz and glam of the circus….I challenge anyone to watch both events and dare say that the F1 event was better.

It’s not even a comparison. It’s like comparing curling or lawn bowling to skydiving.

On another note, James, do you plan on writing a eulogy for open cockpit racecars?


In two minds regarding the new logo, halo, heavier cars, 3 engine limit etc….

On one hand, like many, I hate change – especially entering, the twilight of my thirties.

On the other hand, time marches eternal. Embracing change is part and parcel of growing up. Reminiscing about the good old days often blinds us to the now.

On a whole, this was a great season. A titanic battle between red and silver. Ferrari vs Mercedes. Lewis vs Vettel.

The coming of age of young max. The brilliance of Ocon and the revelation $troll has talent.

Looking ahead, I really really *curse word* hate halo. The logo pales in comparison.

Tornillo Amarillo

I liked your “$troll” spelling !

I hope next year the Lowe’s car suits him better, fingers crossed.
In Canada the promoter are already selling tribune number 24 for Lance’s supporters promising to deliver free-Canadian-red caps & t-shirts to them. Yeah, like mirroring Max supporters.


Digital image technical issues aside, my impression of the new logo boils down to “not needed, but not bad”. I like that the curves elicit visions of sweeping corners and don’t mind the font. But most of all, it really does signify “this isn’t Bernie’s F1 anymore” and that’s what makes it important.


Spot on


Well that may apply to Liberty but how many of the millions of fans would even know who BE was and that it was associated with him in either fact or fiction?


I happen to think that this is possibly the worst time ever for Ferrari to quit F1.
They will be leaving at a time when it will be perceived that they are the second best at producing the fastest cars in the world…..oh hang on they are.
I think if they are going to leave it should be when thay are at the top of their game. They are second, first to come last. Come on Ferrari. You are better than this constant winging about leaving, go out and win then tell eveyone you ar egunna quit at the top!!!


What about. Leave these engines as they are. If new manufacturers like cosworth want to join. They can come in with a 3.0l n/a engine. Similar power to the hybrids but would use slot more fuel. Let them refuel etc. Would certainly spice it up


Old logo: Negative-space blah blah. (I’m guessing someone felt resentful that they couldn’t see the extra “1” in the middle and this is their overreaction.) Puts a red blob as the new logo instead. It looks more like RRI, FI or a faucet. Completely unrecognizable on digital media.


I was late to the party with the ‘f1 is rubbish’ social media, I’ve since caught up and its almost impossible to ignore the constant ongoing wailing of fans and media alike.

Fundamentally racing can be dull, its cars going round in a circle and unless they are sliding at ten tenths then they need to be racing more closely. It was ever thus. The volume has gone up because of social media but I remember Murray Walker oft repeated phrase ‘catching is one thing, overtaking quite another’ and that was in the 1980s, an era people seem to yearn for.

We also suffered from terrible TV producers back then, following a Ligier for lap after lap trundling round in 24th, if it was the French GP. Ferrari in Italy etc. Battles weren’t shown, mistakes weren’t replayed and there were many many processional races.

Looking back from todays billiard table tracks and index finger gear changes, they look far more exciting because the cars were handfuls and the tracks bumpy and badly tarmacked. The oft replayed Senna clip at Monaco being a great example,

I’ll leave the last word to Adrian Newey..from memory…: ‘when you see Senna drive that qualifying lap at Monaco you think it would be impossible to do that, that they must be supermen. When you see todays drivers, you think you could probably do it. You would be wrong of course but it doesn’t seem impossible. f1 has lost its gladiatorial spirit’


Yup. As I have said many times, F1 has gotten to the point where there’s minimal obvious display of driver control; the engine regulations are for endurance racing; and the chassis and aero regulations mean the cars optimized for time trials, not racing against one another.

If a GP is going to remain roughly 200 miles or two hours long, then hybrid/endurance drivetrains are unnecessary and unimpressive. The races are short enough that it’s just ho-hum. Lengthen the distance to 500 miles w/o refueling and it becomes more interesting, and easier to market.

If absolute laptime is the measure of how good a car is, then inaugurate the World Time Trial Championship and let each car go out alone.

If you want RACING; a situation where you can see the effects of the driver’s efforts to control the car, then stop worshipping at the altar of laptime. Reduce or eliminate aerodynamic-dependent cornering power. What, for example, would a modern take on the Lotus 25 or BRM P261 do with modern materials, including brakes and tires? Slower laptime be damned. They would probably give us spectacular racing.


Excellent, excellent point. As MotoGP proves every week whilst circulating upto 30 seconds a lap slower than f1. I’d love to see a modern take on pre aero cars.. unfortanetly with Jean Todt in charge and the manufacturers wagging the dog I can’t see much improvement any time soon.


I think there is room “off the ladder” for just such a series. Note that FIA Appendix J Article 277’s “Free Formula” regs expressly permit races for cars outside of those otherwise listed by the FIA. Note also that FIA Historic racing has become extremely popular; I believe recent data shows more licenses granted for those categories than for any other FIA Championship. And among the most popular segments is for the pre-wing/1.5 liter GP cars of the 1960s, and their immediate predecessors, the front-engined 2.5 liter cars of the 1954 – 1960 Formula.

Also of note, as Motor Sport magazine has explored in depth over the last three issues, modern race preparation techniques- including suspension analysis and optimization – and improvements in tires, fuels, lubricants, and materials – have increased the performance of various historic racers well beyond how they did in-period; there is an obvious market for combining these elements.

A series that deliberately goes “retro modern” can fit successfully into the marketplace. It needn’t compete with F1 directly, nor should it even be part of the FIA “ladder” to F1. Let it operate in its own ecosystem. Let it use FIA Grade 2 (or lower) circuits, thereby avoiding the high costs that would come with using a modern GP palace. Brands Hatch and Watkins Glen (to name a couple of excellent examples) would do nicely for such a series.


Its got legs that idea. I mean it does go on, I’ve been watching VSCC since my dad took me as a wide eyed boy in the early 1980s and my favourite era was when they got ‘really loud’, the cigar shaped pre wing cars. The noise and speed after you’ve just been watching pre war 3 wheeled Morgan’s is quite something. But I know what you mean, not middle aged rich men doing it but bright young things seeking a career in driving or engineering. Probably just need to put a cost cap in from the get go and ask itv4 to show it.

Modern retro is massive, just ask Fiat about the 500. If Peugeot did a 205 update they’d not be able to make them fast enough.


Adrian Newey mirrored my exact thoughts in an article the other day. If you watch the footage of Senna going around Monaco in his McLaren it’s incredible, it looks massively hard work and totally committed not to mention life threatening. They were gladiators. That was F1 for me. Obviously safety had to be addressed but hybrids and halos seriously? It’s like watching paint dry compared to th 80’s but those days are gone and I can’t see the show getting any better sadly.

Tornillo Amarillo

Is the money problem for Ferrari exacerbated by the fact they are losing Santander as a sponsor?


It’s only less than 10% of there income.. about 40Million. Not nice, but not a real problem.

Tornillo Amarillo

Banco Santander abandona la Fórmula 1 al romper el patrocinio con Ferrari

La entidad financiera ha decidido no continuar como ‘sponsor’ principal de la escudería italiana tras una alianza de ocho años y una inversión directa de casi 300 millones

El Confidencial.


The new logo on F1’s Facebook page looks awful: so much for the old one not been suitable for the digital age. It looked good at a small size and in mono. New one is awful and starts to loose what little detail it had to start with.


There is certainly an argument that Ferrari might actually be better off not competing in f1. After all, in the most public forum possible, they are proving that they are no more than second best every season, aren’t they ?

I have a Ferrari 575M and the reason for buying it had nothing to do with F1 as I am a lifelong McLaren and Williams supporter.

I bought it because it was the best Grand Tourer available at the time and I use it as such. Maranello might acquire more conquest sales from other makes if they were dominating F1 but I doubt it.

For real enthusiasts, the road car division of Ferrari stands and falls by the beauty, the quality and the performance of the cars, nothing else. Their cars are better than those currently produced by McLaren, for example, and the Ferrari badge is the icing on the cake.

Of course there are lots of Ferrari owners who buy the car as another trophy to demonstrate their wealth because of the badge. A lot of these people by Californias! The Company competing in F1 has even less influence on the buying decision of those customers.

I would not like to see Ferrari pull out of F1 but I would like to see the new regulations create the conditions where my two favoured British teams, Mercedes, Ferrari and, perhaps even Red Bull all had the opportunity to win a race or two.


I couldn’t care less about the drivers. But what does interest me is the technology. It’s been 4yrs since the hybrid technology came in to f1. Surely in that time batteries size weight and performance has increased massively. Can the fia not bring the minimum weight of the pu down and increase the power of the hybrid.
Let’s start getting rid of the fat from these cars.


While I don’t mind the new logo as many have said there was nothing really wrong with the old one.

However has no one though of one of the most obvious reasons for the change of logo? How easy will it be to replace the ‘1’ with either a 2, 3 & 4??? I think there many be rebranding of F2 & GP3 on the cards soon especially as the FIA have already talked about making a more clear feeder series ladder to F1.


Liberty will have to sort the nonsense with Sky who will be the sole broadcaster in 2019. I refuse to pay Sky for the whole package just to get F1. Liberty need to sort out free to air channel or the number of people watching F1 will decline more rapidly than at present. The new Halo is a design made by a committee and does nothing for the aesthetics of the car. Nor I believe protects the driver. I expect it to be dumped in 2019 due to the difficulty for drivers to exit the car. As far as Ferrari are concerned if they want leave let them. They’ve leached if F1 for long enough. The money could be used more effectively to produce a new engine for the independent teams so they can be competitive without having to take drivers on engine manufacturers books. As far as drivers are concerned, Stroll is out of his depth. I’d love to Kubica back and I’d like to see Young British drivers get to experience F1 as well as being reserve drivers. They need to be able to test the cars during the season so they are ready to race.


Logo : not great in Orange, much better with a darker Red. but it looks more like FI than F1 so …not awesome……but a non issue

Ferrari is an asset to F1 but they should not have so much “threatening power”. A smaller financial compensation would be acceptable in exchange for F1 to be also able to use Ferrari’s image.
If we want closer competition, we should not accentuate budget difference by giving more to the richest teams.


The new logo….as they say on Dragon’s Den…”you’ve created a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.”

(I prefer the old logo)


The new F1 logo looks somewhat like the Halo. If I had any art skills I’d combine them.


“The points table reflects it. Between Red Bull in third and Force India in fourth is 181 points, Red Bull has almost double Force India’s tally.”

I admit, I haven’t done much analysis, but is this that unusual? I’m sure if you looked at 2005-2008 you’d see pretty immense gaps between to top 2/3 teams and the midfield as well.


Whenever there is change in F1 the F1 “fans” always start with negatives. They moan that F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport but at the same time should have OLD V8s.
F1 doesn’t like change. Liberty are going to have a big job on their hands selling the change that F1 needs!!


I work in advertising agency as a creative, if that counts for anything. In my opinion the new logo is not bad and it might work better in digital era and digital platforms, but it’s not as iconic as the old one, which actually had an idea. I think we will quickly get used to the new one, though.


The new logo is very meh, but I understand the wish to move away from the Ecclestone era, and rebranding is part of that.

As for the possibility of Ferrari leaving, I’m in two minds. Ferrari are a massive part of F1 history, and even if you’re not a supporter, you do follow their story. So to lose them would be a shame. But they’ve been given too much power because of that history, and I’d love to see Liberty stand up to them and make Ferrari (and also Mercedes) back down.

Unfortunately, I can see Liberty being the ones who back down, and I think it will be to the continued detriment of F1.


The new logo looks like something off a Scalectrix box from the 80’s. Since I’m nostalgic by nature, that’s fine by me.


Hi James. The new logo more Espn or Mclaren F1 roadcar badge? It’s pretty close to the Mclaren


New logo looks like crap. I can just imagine how much they paid the marketing consultants to come up with that turd. It resembles the graphics off my old Sega Mega Drive.

Time after time large companies keep screwing up re-brands, you’d start to think they might get the message. Pepsi, new coke, vegemite I-Snack 2.0. The problem is that most executives on the boards of these large companies are so far removed from their customers, and between them are hordes of middle managers/yes men who just want to move up the ladder, rather than rock the boat.

Rinse and repeat.


The old logo was definitely better. That one had a sense of motion, of speed.
Mainly because the letters were in cursive and pointed to the right.
Simple but very effective.
They tried to keep that with the upper part of the new logo and that part is still acceptable but the problem is the lower part. Every sense of motion that is generated by the upper part is completely destroyed by the lower part.
Seems like it’s not knowing in which direction it’s going.
Let’s hope this is not symptomatic for the direction F1 is going to in the future …


HAM may not have been on top form but he would still have passed BOT if his car’s aero allowed him to race within 1s of anything he was following (unless it had a Honda PU). This remains the biggest issue for Mr Brawn.


Although for me the old logo was better I don’t have a problem with the new one.
And after all it is just a logo. It won’t affect the racing one bit, so it’s the least of my concerns.

What concerns me more is:

The gap between the first three teams and the rest is too big. If they don’t have some kind of problem then usually P7 will finish +20 sec behind P6. I know F1 has been this way since it started and some will always do a better job than others, but bringing the field closer together must always have the highest priority.

Car Looks
This year the new car designs where introduced to make them look better, and bigger wheels to generate more grip, resulting in faster lap times. But already in testing the hideous shark fin understandably made it’s appearance, then shortly later T-wings etc. Of course as time goes by you get used to it, but it is still hideous. From sideways the cars look like minivans. I don’t think anyone will say that a F1 car looks better with a shark vin than without one, besides those who just see extra advertising space…

But then next year, on top of this, something more hideous and unnecessary will be planted on. No matter how ’safe‘ the halo might be, it doesn’t belong on an F1 car. It’s just a political ‘tool‘ of the FIA in it’s road safety campaign. And an overreaction after the bizarre Bianchi accident. I don’t see head protection in MotoGP! It’s racing there will always be danger.
It’s like the FIFA demanding all players to wear helmets because they might get brain damage when heading the ball…
So next year, one year after they decided F1 needed better looking cars, we get the ugliest F1 cars in almost the whole existence of F1.

Liberty Media

I hope they continue their efforts in making the fan experience better and F1 more accessible/cheaper. But I dearly hope they don’t start messing with the actual racing too much. We don’t need reversed grid‘s, two races in a weekend etc. But I fear they might…

F1’s ‘electric’ future

I absolutely adore F1, the races I didn’t see the last 30 years I can count on one hand. But with the world changing so quickly the last 15 years, I am concerned about the future. Oh man I sound like my old grandpa… But in all honesty, in the next 15–20 years electric engines will slowly replace the internal combustion engine. It’s inevitable that somewhere in time F1 will turn 100% electric to stay relevant. And this has me worried. What will F1 become.
Attending and F1 race for me is speed, action, atmosphere, sound. Speed and action will be sort of the same, but the sound….

Probably (and hopefully) electric F1 will be more entertaining to watch then FE but still…


Officially the reason given for the change was because the old logo doesn’t work on digital content and on screens due to the dead space between the F and the 1.

What!? The F and the 1 are literally touching! What dead space?


The idea that we need more competition at the front is a fascinating conundrum for F1. Niki Lauda recently said `The FIA, Chase Carey and Ross Brawn repeat that we need to level off the performance, but the DNA of F1 is the opposite. You are a fool if you think that to make grands prix more attractive you need to have a different winner every weekend.’ It is true that we all closely follow a sport which has always had dominant teams & drivers (Niki’s main point) but most of us would probably prefer more teams having a chance at winning. If only we could have our cake and eat it too. Who want’s to be in the shoes of the Liberty Media guys?


Looks like a safety sign for an electrical appliance.
Or wear you can recharge your razor ?
Or the “Formula Motels” in France 😄
The slopes/curves downwards looks more like an “n”.
Dire sign big sigh !!!!!!


Watching the interview with Sean Bratches yesterday and I know he’s commercial guy, but top of his lists of improvements was the bloody logo. There are far more important things this sport needs to be prioritising right now. I also question his claims that viewship is rising, maybe watching a 2 minute highlights video on line is classed as another viewer?

On that subject, are to assume that with Lauda leaving RTL that Germany has now also lost FTA F1?


“Maybe” a 2 minute highlight is counted as another ‘viewer’?

You can be 100% certain that it is.


Logo: Whatever your subjective view (personally, I find it dull and uninspired and agree it’s a missed marketing opportunity not to have held a competition), objectively the separation between the two lines is not enough to show clearly in small sizes. This morning I was horrified to see what it looks like in the Twitter app on my phone – a meaningless smear which fails to read F1 and looks hardly more distinctive than no logo at all. I actually reckon it was designed without testing it at small sizes.

Free-to-air: The 2019 Sky deal means I may be forced to give up being an F1 fan, despite the fact that I’ve been content to continue watching despite every other disappointment that has hit me – Clark’s death, Peterson’s death, Senna and Ratzenberger’s deaths, Damon’sacking from Williams, Schumacher’s domination (actually, I did waver for a while then) and Button’s retirement. Surely this is a huge own-goal with who knows what repercussions.


Let’s just go back to 1993 rules and regulations. The cars were light fast and with today’s technology would be amazing



“F1 would survive without the red cars, but would be diminished.”

F1 will decline with the current domination by two hybrid engine manufacturers. The entrenched status quo interests of Mercedes and Ferrari with the current hybrids need to be ignored. F1 will survive without Ferrari should they decide to leave so its time to call their bluff, “for sure”.


Liberty / FOM Head of Marketing, Ellie Norman, explained that the logo’s F was designed to look like the track and racing lines which two F1 cars had taken in a race to the “1” … which is the finish line. I definitely like and applaud that concept.
Unfortunately, the 1 looks too much like an I, which at first glance confused me a little. I guess the same could be said for the first time I saw the empty space which was the 1 on the old logo.
If this new design is to be a lot more self explanatory and shout F1 at first glance, “the finish line” would look a damn sight better if it was in a black and white chequered flag pattern. This would instantly distinguish the entire logo and make it look like it’s derived from motor racing.
After all, everyone knows what a chequered flag stands for!
It was also explained that the new design was aimed at being more modern, fast looking and sporty, to entice newcomers to the series by marketing it more as motor sport entertainment, not a derivative of the motor industry.
Hmmmm ….. interesting!
That subject leads me directly into the debate about Ferrari (and/or Merc) leaving the series.
If Liberty are hell bent on distancing F1 from the very boring road car manufacturers and the motor industry, (which I also applaud) they need to bite the bullet hard and make the new rules and regulations suit that path. NOW!
Stop fiddling around, make the hard decisions and implement the wholesale changes they believe will create a spine-tingling, spectacular RACING series.
If that means bye-bye to the stubborn, self serving likes of Ferrari, Merc and (please please pleeeeeeez) the uber safety conscious and extremely boring, economy focussed FIA… then just write the rules, draw up the contracts, invite all interested parties to “sign here, here and here” and lets go racing.

No matter what they do, at least half of the current teams will disagree. What’s the difference if they just do it their way and stop asking for input from 3rd parties who never agree on anything unless the gain a significant advantage from it? NONE!
The only way to make this work will be to do it by making wholesale changes which create shock and awe … build it and they will come!!!
My eyes widened, I smiled wryly and my head tilted in amazement when Ross Brawn intimated in his interview with Brundle on SKY on Sunday that in his view, F1 would live on without Ferrari . Coming from a beloved godfather of F1, that says a great deal about Liberty’s agenda!!!

As a 40 odd year fan and lover of the spectacular F1 of days gone by, I know that, no matter what they do, I will be anxiously anticipating the beginning of the new series for at least 12 months and making every effort to travel the 2000 kms down the East Coast of OZ from my home in outback Queensland to Melbourne to check it out for myself!
No doubt the same will happen for every F1 fan out there, because as much as we all like to b!tch and moan about the changes and what WE want it to be, we will always be F1 fans at heart!


With regards to the new logo i chose not sure but thats because there isnt an option for ‘i dont mind it but they could have done alot better’.
In terms of next season i really am dreading seeing the cars with the halo devices on them and wondering if,after over 30 years of being a diehard fan,will i still have the same enthusiasm as i have in the past?
I saw Martin Brundle post that Ferrari were bluffing when they threatened to leave as nothing else gives them the exposure/reach that F1 does so we will see…


James – respectfully I think you missed another big point: F1 cars are being increasingly castrated, and the racing is a far cry from the balls-out “maximum attack” of yesteryear. The drivers are the only ones how seem to be raising the issue.
– Kimi’s comments yesterday about the fuel saving not being proper racing.
– Lewis’s comments about adding weight to the cars
– The coming 3 engine limitation and associated penalties will result in engine saving strategies, to the detriment of performance.

All the while, LM media are wasting time messing around with logo’s, whilst the actual racing is dying a slow painful death….


Liberty says this new logo is “necessary for the digital age”, that the old logo’s negative-space “1” does not work with “modern digital media”.
The old logo was viewed primarily on TV screens and PC monitors, as well as print medium. I did not realize that the photons emanating from TV screens and PC monitors are different than the photons emanating from smart phones and tablets. My understanding is that it is all the same photons. I guess James Clerk Maxwell did not fully explain the wave theory of light after all.
It irks me when a company insult my intelligence with their PR nonsense.


@ Gary…very well said. See one photon and you’ve seen them all. Liberty were stretching to come up with any old excuse to base their decision on. Surely, if they’d said, ‘we are the new owners and we’re going to change the logo to enforce that point and stamp our authority on the sport’, it would’ve been better than to try and hedge all this talk of ‘energy’ which is simply so passe. F1 is an engineers paradise…ask them how to interpret ‘energy’ and you’ll get a truthful answer not some kitchy asinine touchy feely BS.


New logo why not, Mercedes change theirs every now and then, Oh wait no….. they do not.
In general I would worry about the dead space between 1st and 10th place .


OR even first and third ATM. Vettel 20secs behind and Raikonnen 45secs further back!!! All is not well in F1 when deficits only experienced in the GFC begin to appear on the lap charts.


Vettel 20secs behind

I don’t think that is necessarily representative of the true gap.I read that Ferrari had turned down the wick by quite a margin to ensure Vettel finished the race, and therefore scored sufficient points to finish 2nd in the WDC. There was no point in risking a higher power setting and obviously they couldn’t have Kimi on a higher setting showing up Vet, so he gets turned down as well.


If there was a world championship for JAonF1 comments – this would be the winner!!! Brilliant.


@ Axx1…If that was directed to me then i would say thank you.


I really hope they will keep the short F1 intro/outro (the one with the streaks of color that zoom across the screen). I find it hugely compelling and not in any way outdated.


I’ll be blunt. If you are angry about the logo change, calm down and realize it’s just a logo.


James, re: ferrari. Yes, the sport should retain them as best as possible HOWEVER, i think it is unnacceptable that they routinely threaten the sport. That is not a reasonable partner or stakeholder to have. I suppose Ferrari could go to WEC but how many of the tifosi will follow?


Where Ferrari go so do the tifosi. I for one do not want to see them leave F1 but if it means that the share of the pot is more evenly distributed then so be it. ATM they are the only team challenging the might of Mercedes and for that we should be grateful however given the massive deficits in lap speed they exhibited on sunday one has to ask some serious questions.


The new logo looks fine however, it seems like a busy, unnecessary development. Despite the claimed “issues” with the previous logo, why couldn’t the new owners make changes while keeping the “spirit” of the logo – ie the sensation of speed and “hidden” 1. Fedex seems to manage okay with its hidden arrow logo in the digital age.

Ah well, it’s NFL season here so I have my hands full.


Your three points of thought are pretty tame JA. Couldn’t care less about LH taking it easy in the last race, and the logo is fine. The engine for 2021 and beyond is definitely a big concern.

To that I’d add – TV and viewing options for F1 fans. Getting it accessible again in one way or another away from Pay TV options that come with too many add ons that people don’t want. Paid Live Stream races from F1 app would be good. Or even paid replays from the F1 app would make me a much happier fan. In Australia, only the best races are worth watching live anyway, even with FTA. If I could get up in the morning, see the race result and reports and decide I’ll watch that, it would be cool. $5-$10 per race seems reasonable.

And the Halo. It has all the markings of a complete disaster that F1 just can’t see. Drivers not happy, Engineers not happy, Fans not happy…its got Bernies stupid Qualifying Changes from 2015(?) written all over it. The only happy ones would have to be the workplace healthy and safety boffins who’d ban F1 completely if given the chance. Now they have the next best thing…make it a joke.


All marketing gimmicks aside, F1 is about engines and sport. The current trolley-engine era should not be continued beyond 2020. We should just walk away if it is not a V10 or V12 combined with our historical payments. 100M is spare change these days, we should ask atleast 200M+. We have spent a fortune on this trolley engine without any use.
Ferrari will continue to do well without F1. Millions of people like me dream of owning it one day, irrespective of F1 or not. Hopefully Sergio will introduce more models where we can buy one without selling our homes, lands and wives 😛


I did not see a problem with the original logo? I am far more concerned with the introduction of the Halo next which is extremely ugly and I believe potentially rather dangerous..
Abu Dhabi is a wonderful looking “gin palace” and just not good for Formula 1 it produces very boring racing so as the last race of the season it’s very anti-climatic …


welcome to, the frl – formula racing league


When was the idea of a new logo first made public? I only heard about it in the past week or so. Did I miss something?
For an organisation that is trying to “reach out” to their existing fans and create new fans, surely a heads up (for the oldies to adjust) and maybe a “Design the New F1 Logo competition” for newbies to get on board. Fly 3 finalists to Abu Dhabi for a presentation by the World champion on the podium.
If the new logo was designed by a 12yr old competition winner I’d think it was genius.
The old F1 logo is a classic and is ingrained like Ford or Coke. If anything it only needed a tweak.

(sometimes I feel silly writing about such frivolous things.)


To me F1 is about passion, the new logo looks as if it was designed by a committee not to offend anyone, it looks bland and boring, Ok the old logo could do with a line below or under to make the 1 more recognizable.
I suppose a new logo was required to symbolise the rebranding of F1 change for changes sake! Boring really!


I’m fairly sure we’ll have many debates regarding the 2021 engine rules and what they mean for the sport, but couldn’t we find ourselves exactly where we were in 2014 when oneengine supllier aces the rules and the others are playing catch up? Andas I understood the previous rules under the token system manufactures where free to develop as much as they wanted and the tokens only became spent when the new spec was submitted and approved by the FIA but that is the past. However issues around the engines are only one aspect of getting closer racing perhaps the aero side needs to be looked at as well, as we hear all the time drivers saying once they get withing 1-2 seconds of a car in front they start to have issues with turbulant air, so perhaps the FIA need to look at ways to reduce how much turbulant air cars generate intheir wake.


The new F1 logo reminds me of…. the shape of the halo?! There was nothing wrong with the old logo – there are bigger problems for Liberty to deal with…

Distributing prize money more equally for all the teams, making F1 cheaper for teams, fans and the circuits, redesigning the cars so they can follow each other, perhaps taking inspiration from the design concepts McLaren RedBull and Ferrari came up with for futuristic F1 cars…

If Ferrari leave F1 it would be stupid for all involved, but Ferrari cannot continue to hold F1 to ransom. If Ferrari left but we gained another few engine manacturers (who unlike Honda managed to be competitive) then F1 will be ok.

Liberty have their first major hurdle, but I’m not going to be too critical quite yet, let’s see what happens….?!


James can you do a thorough in depth article over the next few months on your thoughts and views as to how you see the future of the sport under the new ownership and whether you see F1 regaining the millions of fans its lost over the past decade through the misguided and shortsighted approach to both the way the sport is viewed but also the seeming lack of clarity with the technical regulations.
Do you see a bright future or will F1 as many have to come to know it become just another series?
I for one would love to hear your opinion on matters such as these.


The move to behind a pay wall in many countries hasn’t likely helped with viewership.


Totaaly agree Al. FTA is how you gather new fans whilst PPV is the way you get the money out of them. When you lose the paying viewers with a sub par product and have no way of reaching new ones then the decade of continued decline the sport is in the midst of is the result.
Ultimately it can be blamed on one thing and thats greed.


@ Sars…FTA F1was substandard product IMO now that i have seen what Foxtel can provide. 100% improvement. Yes, not everyone can afford it and i fully understand that..and sympathise. I would go bonkers knowing an F1 race was on and i couldn’t watch it. What needs to be introduced is a sensibly priced PPV digital product that would allow people access within most means. Will it happen? How does Liberty negotiate it without conflict with their current broadcast affiliates? They allow Foxtel to provide the service which would then be an add on provided that it does not totally destroy the ‘full fig’ product. I don’t think that it would. Two separate and discreet markets.


Will do


That’s it. I am really out. That new logo looks like a sideview shot of the cockpit with the halo. 😇 Ugly!

Ominous signs for 2018 with Mercedes’s dominant 1 – 2 in Abu Dhabi. Good fight today between the 2 Merc drivers. Reminds me of the Rosberg/Hamilton days. Two equally matched drivers in the same equipment and only a mistake will decide the outcome. Bottas was perfect this weekend and Hamilton was the one who made mistakes in both race and qualifying session. Grand Chelem for Bottas, as a result.

The 3 engine rule will now make engines more reliable as teams put more resources and studies that will make their engines last for 7 races. Engines blowing up were part and parcel of what made F1 exciting and we will now lose this until Brawn comes up with a solution. Hamilton’s engine blowout in Malaysia in 2016 was the most memorable moment last year because it was a game changer that ultimately decided the championship. It was dramatic, controversial and unpredictable. All part of what made me fell in love with the sport ages ago. Who could forget Mansell’s tire blowing up and losing him the championship or Schumacher’s campaign ending in 2006 with a DNF. Even Senna’s 1984 breakout drive in Monaco in Toleman teetered on disaster as his engineers later revealed that had the race not been stopped, some of them had doubts wheter Senna’s Toleman would have crossed the finish line ahed of Prost because of a cracked front rocker. How exciting was that?

They say that a team would rather have a fast car than a reliable one, which was what Ferrari has but Mercedes said, “Screw that! We’ll have both!”

A fast, reliable car with two fast drivers. Ominous. But don’t blame Mercedes. No one is stopping Ferrari, Renault or Honda doing the same thing. They had better step up their games because if Abu Dhabi was a precursor to what lies ahead in 2018, they are all doomed.


I always felt that the 2006 Japanese grand prix engine blow up was on purpose. Schumi would have won the 8th, but the sport could not have him walk away with a WDC on top of departure. He knew it was his. He knew he would win it. It never sat well that he was so accepting if the loss so quickly. He knew it was on the cards and had time to digest it.

3 engine rule will slow down F1 and will not save money. Big teams will still take their new PUs. Whole thing is silly.



Ever the conspiracy theorist. But I respect your opinion. But who blew the engine? FIA or Ferrari. You didn’t specify so I’m just asking.

I just can’t believe that Michael Schumacher would have known about it or agreed to it as you suggested when you said that “he was accepting of the loss so quickly”.

Schumacher is a win-at-all-cost driver. Even worse than Senna. He tried to punt off his rivals twice to win titles. One, with Hill, which he pulled off and the other with Villeneuve, on which he failed. He was also penalized for parking his car in Monaco to stop Alonso from taking pole. Schumacher is about winning races and titles. No way, he would allow this.

You cannot convince me that Schumacher would pass up on title number 8 or any title, for that matter.

You also cannot convince me that Ferrari didn’t want another driver’s title. In my opinion, Ferrari always cared more about the WDC than the WCC, especially since they get the same prize money regardless of where they finish in the standings. Ferrari would not have agreed to this or allowed it.

If the FIA did it then it scuppers Bernie’s suggestion that they helped Ferrari win titles. The same statement you supported just recently to suggest that conspiracies run rampant throughout the sport.

But again Sebee, you cannot have it both ways. The same reason you cannot say that Merc allowed Ferrari to win but do not call on Ferrari’s or Vettel’s incompetence for losing despite Merc letting them win. By the way, you’ve never answered my question on that one. “Is Vettel or Ferrari that incompetent that they could not even win despite Mercedes allowing them to?”

Sorry, but Schumacher would have love another title and so did Ferrari. I am not convinced unless you have proof or evidence to suggest otherwise.

I agree with you, 3 engine rule blows and I hope it blows up in their faces. There shouldn’t even be an engine rule. There should just be an engine fomula and let the teams figure out how to get there.


Ahhh..those were the days. When men drove with V10 backpacks that sounded like God of Thunder and glowed like fresh lava. And they could have a new one for each Grand Prix too. I never went to a Grand Prix thinking…the greatest driver ever, whom I’ve come to watch will be sent the back of the grid because he needed a new engine. High tech efficient PU my butt…strap a 20,000 RPM 95kg V10 to your back that glows red for 2 hours, I’ll be way more impressed than hearing about your MGU-H!

Look, you have to understand the dynamic of give and take, the circle of “friends”. 2005 FIA allowed those wider tires, and other things that ensured a non-Ferrari championship. 2006 Ferrari recovered, and Schumacher was doing OK until he was really clued in that he’s being pushed out. I could see the conversation mid season “OK, I’ll yield, but only if you get me this last WDC…like you say FanF1. At Monza we the fans finally found out what he knew for a while, that he was retiring. Pushed out really in his prime still for no real reason. Was he 100% wanting to go? Did he want to stay? Maybe James has the real answer as he wrote the book.

Bottom line: Formula 1 was going to lose the most successful driver in history during the most popular period. Whatever you may think of Schumi, he, Ferrari and V10s drove the most popular period of F1 viewership, ever.

Taking Schumi off the grid is like a flagship product transition for….well, let’s say Apple. You need to have a roadmap and a new model in the works ready to take over the spot in the roadmap. It should appear up to the task, or even better. What better way to have a new youngest WDC win…Alonso. Max for example is that model now too. He will win the WDC soon and rest the youngest clock as a legitimizing “feature” of his skill because F1 needs him to carry the sport forward without having 4 WDCs. Bernie knew this well, and who’s his close friend? Flavio. And who does Flavio manage? Alonso and long time F1 contributor Renault. Between the rules, how Alonso won with the FIA rules…well, it was always a little strange.

Bernie and Max were close, suddenly rules are allowed to run the wider Michelins, and the dampener is not a moving aero device…or it isn’t…or it is…regardless wins are piling up for Alonso. First a “soft” dethroning of Schumi via this tire advantage for Michelin, and then it continues on into 2006 as noted above. It’s actually possible as well that they knew Schumi was leaving in 2005 and started the transition then.

Now, I don’t know who does it. Does Bernie approach Schumi directly (likely, and my belief) or something with Todt…hard to tell. To me it seems best solution was to approach Schumi directly. I always like fewest people involved scenarios. The conversation would go something like this. “Michael, F1 has given you a lot. I need you to give something back. You can’t retire as the WDC. (That’s like the old product being better than note replacement ‘new’ product remember.) Can you find a way to surrender this? before you go?”

Of course as you note, Schumi was ultra competitive, so he would want to know for sure that he would have won it. That’s why the blow-up happens after the final pit stop, right? He knew he was going to win the GP and the WDC at that point. All he would have to do is over-rev the engine and….boom. Smoke, sorry, we tried. Gut wrenching, Alonso is the man. He knew 8th was his, but he had 7 already, and he was going to help the transition and not burn the bridge behind him in F1. Obviously he thought Bernie would outlive his grand children and didn’t think of this ownership change. F1 needed Schumi so much….just his face around the paddock helped after he was no longer driver. He go that weird Ferrari Advisor hang around gig.

I’m not saying that’s fact. I have no proof. Simply the pieces fit, and the motive is huge for the sport. Competitive or not, if the ring leader wants something for the product, he gets it. And it all comes down to the fact that Schumi could not retire a WDC. His retirement already left a huge void. That level of success as undefeated, we would look at that grid and consider it inferior and no longer worth our attention. We would endlessly say…no one on this grid is as good as Schumi, and we know it. If you look, already that’s when the viewership slide started, right?



First, Schumacher would never go for this. Never. Neither would Ferrari. Especially Ferrari. They would never do anything for the good of the sport because everyone knows that that the only thing keeping the sport afloat is their brand. Bernie had to pay them off and give them veto power just to keep them in the sport. They would never go for this.

Last, although suffering a DNF in Japan ended his title hopes in 2006, winning it would not have guaranteed him the WDC. Had he won in Suzuka with Alonso coming in 2nd, he would still lose the title in Brazil by 1 point to Alonso after what had transpired in that race. So your statement that Schumacher agreed to the engine failure in Japan for the sake of his ego because “He knew he was going to win the GP and the WDC at that point” does not make sense. The win in Suzuka only kept him in the fight but did not guarantee him the title. He still would have lost to Alonso and would still have retired as a non-champion.

If Bernie was manufacturing a championship for Alonso by way of FIA rules then Fisichella in the same car would be much closer to the two championship contenders because he was driving the same machinery as the Spaniard. He was not. The fact is, Alonso in that Renault was more than a match for Schumacher in that year’s Ferrari. Of course, it also helped that Kimi’s Mclaren was nowhere near contender status in 2006 after a stellar, though bittersweet 2005.

If it happened in Brazil, the last race, maybe…

So apologies, Sebee. I am still not convinced.


FanF1, please, no apologies needed. We’re just having a nice chat here with differing opinions. Honestly, I just re-read everything and this type of stuff is exemplary comment forum stuff. Fans with different views exchanging them. Fantastic.

During the Bernie era, do you think the Ferrari super team happened organically? Or maybe someone had something to do with it? A little nudge. A little plan? Who knows?

Ferrari…never going for it? Please remember a few things. Ferrari just came off a 5 WDC 6 WCC run. They’ve been given a barrel full. Ferrari are the ones who made the decision to push Schumi out as well, right? Now do you gracefully do that? And why wouldn’t they go along with it? Does it look good for Ferrari to have Schumi retire a WDC, whom they just nudged out? Guy they just pushed out, best ever and takes the #1 into retirement for a season and Ferrari dumped him? Plus Bernie is already treating Ferrari super nicely with extra money, preferences, etc. Do you believe Bernie would ever put himself in a disadvantageous position in a negotiation or a business relationship? Has he ever? Think about who we’re talking about here FanF1. Ferrari and Bernie are on even terms and understand they have shared interest here to not see Schumi take WDC into the pastures.

This alignment of FOM, Ferrari, the perception of the remaining product by the fans being better than Schumi by beating him, Flavio and his driver get looked after, so does Michelin and Renault for their ROI. Honestly, where is the down side?

Regarding your point Renault. Let us remember Flavio is managing the team, Alonso is already WDC from 2005. Fisichella? Look, let’s be serious about the #2 driver in that team. You’ve seen the leverage exerted on Piquet Jr. You’ve seen the lengths and depths the team would go to ensure priority and team order. If you think Fisichella was driving the same car, you can be sure it wasn’t the case after Malaysia and proper adjustments were made. Remember what happened to Renault when the whole Crashgate Singapore 2008 thing came out? Yeah…slap on the wrist, suspended sentence, secret probation. That after McLaren lost all points and 100M for a few photocopies.

Finally, the certainty of Schumi winning or not point you’ve made. Well, obviously we can never be certain because he didn’t win it. But just to ensure you have the clear picture about matters…

Schumacher and Alonso both arrived in Japan at 116 points a piece. Schumacher wins, he takes a 2 point advantage into Brazil. Obviously it is an entirely different Schumacher who drives a final race with a 2 point lead vs. a 10 point deficit and need to win and Alonso no points to win the WDC on total GP victories tie break.

I went to the Brazilian Grand Prix in 2006, and let me tell you, it was an awesome experience. A WDC decider. The boys and I were shooting the breeze that evening over some beers and…even then having felt that the Japan GP retirement was suspect I remember asking my buddies if they didn’t find it strange that Schumi was taken out of Q3, and there was all this talk about how a Brazilian didn’t win that race since Senna. And here was a nice feel good story about Brazilian taking the pole, then winning the race, Schumi doesn’t get the WDC.

Why doesn’t Schumi contest Q3? Some technical excuse on the rear wheel. Interestingly, that technical issue happens after Schumi posts a Q2 time that’s .3s faster than Massa’s pole times. So he’s essentially pulled out of qualifying and given that P10 starting spot. This is where likely more than just 2 people are involved, because of the Brazil events that follow the Japan events. It is entirely possible that Schumi was indeed completely not aware of the events that were working against him to ensure no 2006 WDC on the way out. Even if he doesn’t see the interest alignment and doesn’t agree to it, FOM and Ferrari clearly do. If he is unaware, his 2006 P2 WDC standing consolation prize? Few more years of Ferrari employment….a soft break up. Maybe you’re right FanF1…he didn’t have anything to do with it. But that 2006 WDC was Schumi’s…if not for forces working against that outcome. That’s my theory. 🙂


Final thing FanF1. As initially noted, and as you agree, Schumi was driven to win at all cost. You know what great sporting figures hate more than anything? Exactly…losing.

And here was Schumi, his last WDC chance apparently, and he’s all smiles about it? He goes back to the garage in Japan and he’s cool with what just happen. “Guys, it’s OK, Thank you all. Don’t worry about it.” In Brazil, after being pulled out of Q3 when pole is clearly his to take by .3s he’s not upset at all. I recall he joked about things after qualifying.

….do you think Schumi gets to acceptance that quickly under both those cases? Or he came to terms with it weeks maybe months…maybe even year earlier?


Sometimes I read your posts Sebee and find myself being convinced, almost against my will, that you have merit in your beliefs whilst other times im left with mouth agape as to how you could possibly come up with some of this stuff. Nearly all the time though I find your theories interesting to read so kudos for stucking firm #notafanexceptwhenIam


Well, I enjoy reading your posts as well Sarsippious. I just wrote Part 2 about Brazil. Spoiler: In Japan Schumi knew he was going to win when the engine blew. In Brazil he knew he was going to get pole (by .3s) when he was strangely removed from Q3 and relegated to P10 starting box. Ain’t that an unusual coinkydink? Do you think Schumi left the 2006 season doubting for a second that 2006 WDC was his beyond doubt?


To Win a race you must finish a race, so surely you want a reliable engine first. If everyone ahead of you has a fast but unreliable engine you might win due to relianility failures



I agree and you could indeed win that way. There is nothing wrong with that. It has always been this way and it provides unpredictable results and tons excitement.

As I’ve mentioned, races and championships have been won this way in the past. It’s part of F1 and there is nothing wrong with it.


“Ominous signs for 2018 with Mercedes’s dominant 1 – 2 in Abu Dhabi” … have you not seen the ominous signs at every race for the last 4 seasons?

The signs are ominous for 2019 but hopefully 2020 will bring some change in the order of things.


@ Axel Knutt

Sure, the last 4 years have been like this but I was pretty clear that I was talking about 2018 specifically as a response to James’s last thoughts on the season ending race in Abu Dhabi 2017. I’m sure others have said the same thing at the end of last year but it doesn’t mean that I can’t form a conclusion for next year. It’s the same reason people make preseason predictions regardless of how similar it is to the previous years.


I like the new F1 logo, racey, better than most of Tilke’s designs, infinitely better than the mess that is the Abu Dhabi track.

My three things from that race are:

1) Did something get removed from the Red Bull to make them slow since their recent wins and challenges, somebody complain to the FIA about an update, something in the suspension, Mercedes have destroyed them in the past two races.

2) Investigate the customer restrictions by the works suppliers, including the current shame of F1, the engine ‘modes’.
Why did Torro Rosso Renault team collapse to Sauber level conveniently for the works Renault team to take the points and millions in the constructors, why are the Merc customers so so far behind (1 lap per race distance) the works Merc and so far off in qually Q3 mode.

3) What was KMag’s start all about, simply amazing from his onboard, like someone’s first ever shot at an F1 Playstation game!!

Ross, do something about these engine modes for 2018, you desperately need a fight at the front, for everyone’s good, the fans, the drivers and the sport.


To 1), it was mentioned in the Sky broadcast that someone complained about something on Red Bull’s car after Max’s easy win in Mexico, and it subsequently had to be taken off. Something to do with the suspension.


Single fixed engine mode for entire GP, regardless of tires or fuel level is what is needed.


Sounds possible, equalise engine modes for 2018 – Ross??
A season of 50-50 poles between Ferrari and Merc would have made the race at the front a lot more enjoyable.


That is not f1. Give them 150 litres of fuel. Let them decide modes etc. Vary it. Get rid of fuel flow and let them get on with it. Get rid of stupid tyre stop to. So if Perez wants to go non stop on hard in a medium engine mode.but ocon decides to 3 stop any goes flat out with extreme engine mode. Much more variety.


What’s not F1? Drivers being in full control of the car and what it does at all times?


@ Clarkes…reading your post and your comment re ‘modes’ for the ’18 series led me to think why not introduce a rule that whatever mode was used by the winner in Q3 must be the race mode for the duration of the race. That would soon curb the massive variances we are seeing. It would mean that the Mercedes would risk ‘detonation’ as they couldn’t run the entire race at ‘full beanz’. Give Todt a quick call and bounce it off him and Charlie. Let me know the outcome. hahaha


Spot on lads, simple solution that could make a teeny difference in wheel to wheel action.


How simple and logical is that?

If you really want to save money, just make it locked in like gear box ratios for the season.

Also, manual ERS deployment and fixed recovery capture. You press the brakes, you get recovery. It doesn’t engage sometimes or partially by software.

Simplify and beautify. Put it back in the driver’s hands 100%!


1) I felt like Hamilton was basically held up by Bottas almost the entire race. To me, it was a perfect illustration of the over-emphasis on aero and its negative effect on racing. If the positions had been reversed (Ham 1, Bot 2), I doubt they would have finished close together.

2) The new logo…whatever. I personally feel it’s a bad idea to significantly revise a logo. Look at other sports ‘brands’ (or, whatever brand), they usually only make a minor change to a logo. It’s what people recognize. Of course, in the case of F1, it may not really matter. People know what F1 is and may not care. I think most people follow teams and/or drivers and don’t care as much about F1 branding.

3) The payout structure is in dire need of revision. The fact that Ferrari gets such a massive reward for just showing up is ridiculous. F1 needs Ferrari, but Ferrari needs F1 just as much, or more. The fact that they get such a huge competitive advantage in the form of massive payment is simply unsporting. If there’s a fight coming…so be it. It’s long overdue that the finances of the sport get sorted out to a more ‘sporting’ distribution.


Your point 3, Ferrari doesn’t need F1 anymore as much as it did once.
F1 needs Ferrari more, just look at what happened to WEC after Audi and Porsche left. Williams and McLaren are not the teams they once were. Without Ferrari F1 will only have one big brand left i.e. mercedes


All salient points. Firstly, it will be interesting to see how Bottas and Ferrari (and Red Bull) develop next season. With Valtteri, it’s difficult, because he is the junior member of the team. Therefore, it is sensible for him to learn from Lewis and work with him. But there may come a point where he’ll have to start making things awkward. Better on-track consistency is a must but I think it’ll also be about making sure car development goes in his direction, he gets the team members he wants, all that (recall how the change of mechanics at the end of 2015 irked Lewis). If it was a three year plan he could work his way there. As it is, though, it might be next season or bust.

Re the new F1 logo, I actually don’t think it’s that bad. I’m sure there are better options out there, and it does look a little too much like the Supercars Championship logo to me, but it’s not quite the calamity some people are making it out to be. I agree it’s not a big priority but you can see that Liberty are putting a statement down.

Finally, it’s an interesting time. It seems like Liberty are working hard, they’ve done the quick-easy wins and they are now working towards a programme of meaningful change from 2021 onwards. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays with different teams but also different fans. I think things could get awkward if, like Max Mosley in 2009, by alienating the teams they end up alienating the fans as well, even if the suggestions (budget caps) were sometimes sensible.


I think Ferrari hold all the aces here. F1 has shot itself in the foot by going behind pay walls so Ferrari can contemplated leaving and setting up a rival series which would instantly have more viewers by selling to all the worldwide tv channels that have lost F1.
I can see ferrari and its generous terms for participation continue.


… we have to get to the point where a team like Force India can aspire to win a race, just as a lowly Premier League football team can win against Chelsea or Manchester United.

We most certainly do. From a neutral perspective it can often still be fun to watch Chelsea or ManU trash a small team with 5 or 6 goals. In F1 however seeing Merc strolling to an easy 1-2 is like watching paint dry.


On the engine front.
I recall Martine brundle saying Ferrari were 2% off Mercedes and Renault 11%.
So if Mercedes are putting out 1000bhp.
Ferrari are at 980. Renault 940. Honda below 900!. That McLaren chassis must be amazing to compensate for that rubbish.
Ie Alfa Romeo powering sauber.
It’s nonsense. If will just be a rebadged Ferrari engine. No doubt liberty will celebrate as f1 will now have 5 engine suppliers etc. But we will all know it’s complete rubbish.
Can they not just keep these engine as they are for 2021. Raise the fuel flow and fuel quantity for race by 20%. Try and shed weight off these fat cars. Rant over


The F1 logo is change for the sake of change I think, it’s part of the elimination the Ecclestone years. I am not worried about the direction Liberty will take in the future at the moment. But there are things they should keep well clear of.
The use of safety cars to close up the field. Standardising certain engine, gearbox and suspension parts. For me that’s a step closer to badge engineered one make racing.

It will be interesting to see what’s going on with this rumour about Alfa Romeo coming back. Using a re-badged Ferrari engine and being a junior team to Ferrari…yuk.
I will worry if Liberty start sending the team management to Franklin Covey classes.


In order of importance:
1. Connect with and retain a younger fan base, as soon as they can watch television/ a screen, they are potential ‘customers’; of course the sport also needs demographics: 30-35, 25-30, 20-25…etc.
2. Get a formula aligned to the business ecosystem niche of F1 that can and will work.
3. Attract more constructors/engine manufacturers.

The order of these is in priority sequence; lower priorities are either subordinated to higher priorities, and/or dependent on them.
1. Connect with and retain a younger fan base
I’ve floated my idea of a virtual series in parallel, i.e. an advanced video game, with the competition between the actual ‘rubber and road’ races, determining competitors to earn the right to go ‘simultaneous live’, against the actual race in the virtual, realtime environment. Perhaps the top ‘virtual’ champions of the year get a test in a real car?!?
Totally agree that the technology to enable is a stretch, but let’s be honest, for the money at stake/available, and considering the context of the absolute survival necessity for Formula One as an viable ongoing concern to attract and retain a 20-40 age demographic…. it’s totally doable!

2. Get a formula aligned to the business ecosystem niche of F1 that can and will work.
I’ve also waxed (some would say ad nauseam) about the formula: totally open PU, subject to the one constraint of a total race fuel limit (no flow rate limitation), and a declining limit, year-over-year; the objective of the formula is to fit into the niche of leading automotive innovation and technology, for the time being, by advancing the capability to extract the maximum possible motive energy from hydrocarbon storage. While legislation in the F1 heartland suggests the transition to full electric by the 2030 timeframe, there will still be applications for power extraction from concentrated sources (i.e. hydrocarbon, i.e. you call it ‘petrol’, we call it ‘gasoline’). It will also result, almost certainly, in electrical energy capture and storage technology, which is much, much less mature, and therefore representing a wide open horizon for return on investment by sales outside of F1, in a much wider industrial sector beyond automotive (i.e. almost everything).
This further consolidates F1’s business niche in high-tech innovation, with an open apparent connection (at least in superficial perception) to leading edge mass-production automotive advancement.
It offers the possibility of convergence/merger with FE, which is clearly focused on where the European automotive sector WILL BE, already; what’s more, by keeping F1 as the top category, and such merger (inevitable for the ultimate survival of F1, in this posters humble opinion) as an alternative (call it ‘plan B’ for those of you shrinking back in horror), F1 could be the senior partner and still emerge on top!
3. Attract more constructors/engine manufacturers.
If above 1. and above 2. are achieved (maybe even only 1. above), additional manufacturers will sign up. But as it is, we’ll be lucky to have three for the 2021 season!

Again, thanks for all the chuckles, and even more kudos to the mods (praise be the Mods!)


I’ve floated my idea of a virtual series in parallel, i.e. an advanced video game, with the competition between the actual ‘rubber and road’ races, determining competitors to earn the right to go ‘simultaneous live’, against the actual race in the virtual, realtime environment.

I think this has been floated before and is being taken very seriously. The virtual reality tech to enable it is still fairly new but I believe it will happen.


The article in Creative Review is very interesting – thanks, Tim Crow, for mentioning it. But the logo still looks like a Scalextric track coming to a T-junction. Maybe that makes it even more appropriate – a 90 degree decision required that is totally undriveable in either direction.


I agree totally with c63 if overtaking was as normal bottas would have been toast

Its really wierd when hams not winning people like to stick the knife in….hes won the championship so who cares…..if this race was all to play for then ham would be on it….bottom line is when it matters hams on it….ive learnt that hams so good that a bad causes a omg…..

Vettle finished 20 seconds behind ham… one mensions that…ohhh i forgot thats the car.


@ P82…so let’s progress your proposition a bit further. Are you saying that if the title was up for grabs then he would have passed Bottas and taken the win? The fact that the title was already in his pocket then by driving at 99% was his way of diminishing Bottas’s win. In other words he could’ve won but chose not to?


Well after watching this a few times Bottas ran a little more downforce. His car was simply set up better.

Now as far as the gaps are Mercedes was 20 seconds ahead of Ferrari. The F2 race was much better. Lots of people get wins there.

The big problem with F1 is the teams make the rules and if Liberty changes that Ferrari could leave. If that happens things could really get bad. Indy IndyCar is faster and pretty good but no one watches that for reasons mentioned. Alonso just being at the 500 has made that 500 race more popular. He got a standing ovation.

These things have a way of working out but it might ruin things for years. If the rules are left alone parity will eventually come in normal times but Mercedes and Ferrari are way ahead on power and money.


On the logo , its a perfect example on the short comings of Liberty Media as a qualified entity to govern the commercial rights of F1. Concerned more with appearances – in a flimsy attempt to justify their arrival onto the scene. So far ,as I predicted , they have amounted to a net effect of zero compared to what Bernie accomplished for less – meaning he was cost effective.

If it ain’t broke then leave it alone – concentrate on the items that truly need fixing. Hiring Brawn was a step in the right direction.

On Ferrari leaving – Marchionne is not in a position of despotism even if he likes to think he is. Sergio will be thrown out of Ferrari long before he tries to force quit F1.

If the rumors are correct and Arrivabene gets arrivaderci ( aka promotion out of F1) then this is about as good as it gets in terms of Ferrari making a positive change for 2018.

only 118 days to Australia !!


Bernie gets lumps and resentment, but until he knew the mandate was to sell F1, he ran this baby extremely well, and did a lot for F1.


Been living in USA for 20 years, myvpassion from F1 cones from another coutry AND another 20yrs before coming here.
I understand what this company is trying to do but is not right. American sports fans are into the show, the abundance of everything, the all you can eat.
F1 and F1 fans are not about that.
You can not order a slice of pepperon and a peach Snapple at a 5 stars restaurant, same way a Pizza parlor won’t serve champagne and caviar.
Both are great menus, but for different establishments and patrons.


Doesn’t that make F1 snooty?

I always felt the “better then thou” thing in the best sections when I attended races or even in the sport itself. Plainly illustrated when often comparing for example F1 fans to NASCAR fans, or comparable belittling of others. F1 wants to be exclusive and grants access based on wealth. In the grand scheme of things, it is laughable how money makes people feel superior over others, of even driving a “premium” car. Something quite pathetic about it on a human level and seriously lacking humility and compassion. Putting F1 behind paywalls is but one glaring example.


@ Sebee….A bit of ‘snoot’ is never a bad thing. It sets the tone…..


H touched upon a valid point however I feel Sebee is confusing two traits. Monetary wealth and affluence.

We (the people) are not all equal no matter how many idiots proclaim fanciful statements that we are. We are, however, all of one race ( the human one) and that is our only equality – but we leave that for another time as many still have not accepted this one either.

That said, monetary wealth, which has little to do with proper affluence and good taste, is not a pre-requisite for understanding and adopting F1 as ones’ preferred motor sport event. The latter, however, is.

There was a time when NASCAR was a trip to watch – stock cars off the shelf with their HP numbers embossed on the hood, good old boys fender banging it at speed. The notion for the event was race on Sunday and buy on Monday. STOCK CAR races sold cars.

F1 is/was a sport based on time intervals – something Americans (for the most part) still to this day care little for or understand. Its the speed they measure is it not? Squeezing a tenth of a second per lap – forget it, and where the hell do you buy a McLaren or a Williams in 1985 anyway? Sure you could get a Ferrari but its not what the sport was all about.

Hence F1 is a specialized motor sport event – its supposed to be cutting edge, technologically advanced and driven, detailed, dangerous, hardcore, and yes elitist as it appeals to people of a certain affluence.

Its inevitable that all this affluence eventually attracts the designer labels that have little understanding of why they are there – it becomes ever more dangerous when these people have the monetary means to ruin the sport.

Liberty Media, and today’s car manufacturers are such nuisances to the sport. NASCAR ruined a good thing – lets not let the same happen here.


We do get time/intervals quite well, and speed: Drag racing distills these elements to the purest form.


there is a thought. Maybe Ferrari and Mercedes should pull out of F1 and build Hybrid funny cars. Maybe with a bit of R&D they could dominate that too!


They do already…it’s just that they look like an F1 car!!!!


I agree with Jame’s comments on Indy/CART series demise, but also a big factor was the spec chassis. I think F1 is headed in that direction with the basically spec engine.


The new logo really isn’t very good.

Just like the halo there’s nothing good about its design.


Looks like a logo for a computer game. Kiddo stuff


Where the “Logo” issue is concerned, it’s how a business identifies itself. Perhaps a change in any corporate’s signature image might be viewed like a new dog in the neighborhood marking the territory and serving notice there’s a new one in town.

While the vote provided was the ‘not sure yet’ category — another perspective might be the respected phrase: “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” — just sayin’ . . .

And that’s from the perspective that the “sport” has that identity in the existing signature logo and am inclined to think that it might have been considered in that context, because “owners” can come and go, as we have witnessed this year.


Given that, as of this writing, folks who have registered an approval “vote” on the new logo just below 33%, maybe this isn’t the right group, or just maybe this isn’t a “winner” as some sites seem to think after all. . .


I personally don’t like the Abu Dhabi circuit, actually everything there, the place has no soul. I think it’s wrong for the final GP to take place there. The final GP should take place in a very special and happy place like Mexico, Austin or Spa.


The new logo looks like a section of track heading into a brick wall! A hint at things to come?


10/10 comment!


Ferrari finishes the year 0,5 sec behind Merc and no James Allison. I think it will title number 5 for Ham and Red Bull in 2nd


Sorry it will be a Ferrari vs Mercedes fight for the next 3 years. The Renault engine is not good enough to compete with the big two and as you may have seen the Relationship between Renault and RBR is at an all time low. At the end of 2019 all engine manufacturers will have to prioritizing the 2021 engine or risk falling behind again! That means focus will switch to reliability over new developments.

The other hurdle is the three engine allotment for the next 3 years, so that puts more pressure of the Renault and Honda teams to be FAST and RELIABLE, something they have both failed to accomplish since the start of the hybrid era.


I’ve just seen the new logo.

Where’s Maggie Thatcher with a handkerchief when you need her…


I like the new logo. It’s not a big stretch from the old logo and is more contemporary. It’s sleek. Instead of saying New Logo, Liberty should be saying Updated Logo.

Changing a company logo is always fraught with danger – losing identity, etc. I think the designer did a very fair, and equitable design that has a distinct throw-back to the original. Nice work!


@ Colm…sorry but it is quite lame to say the least. It is just another waste of money when the original was fine…maybe needed some subtle tweaks but using a negative space identifier is, IMO, far superior to what is now just bland. Really unimaginative.


There are a few things I would like to see FOM do for the next three years:

DO NOT CHANGE TECHNICAL REGULATIONS. Let the chips fall where they may be for the next three years. If the races are reduced to a one or two team events so be it. Politically it will provide ammunition for leveling the playing field.

By the end of the 2018 season Ross Brawn should announce the new engine and aerodynamic technical regulations for 2021 seasons. Let each team decide if they want to stay or walk away. Do not waver from the plans. Remind all teams the regulations will be frozen for at least 5 years so they can risk capital without having to fear a sudden changes.

Between 2018 and 2020 Ross Brawn and the FOM team MUST recruit one new major European engine marquee (Porsche, VW, Audi, etc) to show there is new money and technical expertise waiting to join their cheaper, more democratic F1.

Finally, publicly reveal the cost cap parameters so the fans can understand what kind of money F1 is discussing. Since most of this discussion is secretive, most fans do not really comprehend how uneven the competitive field is in F1. Sometimes the fans need to see how bad things have became before they put pressure on the sport to change the status quo.


I hope no brand from VW group, Porsche and Audi included come into F1. Consumers shouldn’t be so foolish and quickly forgiving. Also when doing so means spending tens of thousands for the pleasure. There are other choices with much more ethical and reliable products.


I’m a customer (VW diesel) and I ain’t forgiving them! In a previous life I was also stuffed by BMW (a self terminating diesel) which leaves be looking towards the Orient Or horror or horrors France for the next car!


warley, that’s a good thing. We’re too easily bought back by these companies. Worse, they do the payouts for fines, then report losses and deduct future taxes paid for profits made against those loses on the books, lessening their punishment.

It is high time that this type of behaviour saw same consequences as cheating on a loving parter. After that happens – you’re done with them. No forgiveness. That’s VW group of companies for me.

Don’t be so terrified by the Orient. I absolutely hated Toyota cars. I found them bland and uninspiring. I bought one reluctantly because it was by far the best deal out there for that type of vehicle and options. At some point you can’t not buy the best value just to spite yourself. I’d have a hard time today not buying a Toyota. Darn things have never let me down, have always been up to the task, they are so easy to live with and they don’t stand out – stealth has been quite appreciated. My V6 delivers same acceleration and performance as a Cayenne, and when a friend of mine and I went to pick up a pair of B&W 802s, he could not believe they fit in my Toyota, hatch closed, while he had to make 2 runs with his brand new Grand Cherokee. Recent reliability rankings put Toyota at #2 among all brands with a score of 78/100 if I remember correctly. Which was #1? Lexus at a score of 85/100. As a point of curiosity, Mercedes was #17 on the rankings, up from #22 the year before. I think the Mercedes score was something like a 56/100.

I just googled and found that Toyota and Lexus have swapped places for 2018 ranking with Toyota now #1. Mercedes up to 14th but with a score of only 47/100.


VW sales in the US are up this year compared to last year. I would say the only reason Porsche or Audi is now reluctant to join is the engine formula (I am referring to the relationship between MGU-H to rest of the power unit) is proving to be too complicated for any team to play catch-up for such a short period of development.

MGU-H is one of the reasons I have a huge appreciation for the Mercedes engineering department. After yesterdays drubbing we saw that aerodynamics is the only thing holding the Mercedes back.


That makes me sad. But considering people get killed, shot, assaulted in front of shops to get a Black Friday deal, it hardly surprises me that VW with their aggressive discounts bought their way to volume with rebates.

All I can really hope is that all this growth is the result of the buyback of the TDIs and those customers being pushed to replace those TDIs with a new model. They shouldn’t maintain loyalty to that brand, but if it was made convenient, and offered additional incentives you can be sure people bought in.


VW in the US has always marketed itself to younger college kids and recently married families. In addition, VW Finance has one of the better deals for new car so I suspect the cheaper car finance option is a pretty good attraction. I really cannot blame them with ballooning college debt in the US right now, a cheap new car option is hard to resist.


James, congratulations on your reporting this season. I agree that we’re going to experience a pivotal 2018 season. The Sauber delayed announcement will, I believe, be a symptom of how things will move next year. Will we see a merge of adventure, finance and engineering, or the status quo of superficial visionless fund investments? I have started a petition for a return of Alfa Romeo to F1 and believe it would prove that the Formula 1 community is serious about the return of the sport to a noble and glorious DNA. I’m posting the link and humbly let you decide to edit it out or not. Thank You. G.M.


The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio already has an engine that is “Inspired by Ferrari” and James had said some time back that Sauber/Alfa seems almost a done deal.
It will be interesting how the B-Teams Haas and Sauber/Alfa compare in the years to come, and maybe we can get an article from James’ on that especially given the doubt over Ferrari’s long term F1 plans.

P.S. Have signed your petition.


Your petition may not be needed as I think Sauber will be “powered by Alfa Romeo” at the very least


JA – an irrelevant question for you.

Which one is worth more market value wise, Ferrari or Formula 1?


@ James…whilst i love the idea that Alfa Romeo even in name only may return i also think that ‘badge engineering’ is disingenious. Compare it to the ‘Tag Heuer’ name for what is in reality a Renault, a fact that fools no one.


a fact that fools no one.

I agree kenneth – it just feels false. A bit like Crofty getting over excited about gaps between team mates in Q2.


WEll at least it is a car and engine manufacturer


See? I published my Petition on the return of Alfa Romeo to F1 only three days ago on and that convinced Sergio to finally take his phone and tell his legal staff to finally do something.
No, No, come on, no standing ovation, please, Thank you, Thank you, you’re welcome. I’d like to thank all the good reporters and analysts who provided the business insight for my initiative and I’ll sign photographs and posters in a few minutes. You’re a great crowd…


You know James, it is a bit weird that Sergio is saying all these things about post 2021 and meanwhile, he’s bringing Alfa into F1. Seems quite contradictory.


@ James…Granted, although there is no Alfa Romeo car involved and the engine is in fact a Ferrari. But if it serves to inject some life into an almost dead entity then that will be a good outcome. At least the Alfa Romeo badging is colorful and well designed with great historic associations…rather than that apology for a design heralded by the ‘new’ F1 logo.


I had an Alfa (quite a few years back) and the electrics on the windows were a nightmare. I forget how many times it went back and they couldn’t sort it. Anyway, the day came to sell it and the buyer hopped in and started checking all the switches – sure enough the back windows refused to budge. He was completely unfazed and just said if you want an Alfa you have to expect things like that, shook my hand and away he went ! It did sound nice though 🙂


@ C63…everyone has an Alpha Romeo story and they are usually not pretty!!! hahaha


Re-badged Ferrari engine? I certainly would not call that Alfas return to F1. Or am I wrong, is Alfa developing an engine for the 2021 rule change?


At least we are accustomed to seeing an Alfa broken down by the side of the road. Seems F1 might be the perfect advert for them 🙂


Alfa is developing a high tech Formula 1 engine….cover.

It’s probably for the best, considering Alfa is living up to their reliability reputation.


@ Sebee…i think you missed the ‘big’ point there. AR are bringing the engineers responsible for two SEDANS…Wow, i bet that brought some excitement to the Sauber team. Way to go….


F1 without Ferrari would survive in the same way that CART survived after Roger and Chip skipped town.
James, you are the first F1 journalist I’ve read who understands Sergio Marchionne and Ferrari with respect to the companies strategy, the implications of it having gone public, and Sergio as an autocratic CEO. There are no sacred cows.


A new logo is just what we need………………………………………..

It’s like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!!!


So that the orchestra could sit down and play while the ship goes down.


Great to see Bottas stepping up his game and defeating competitors on merit and speed — even if some want to make excuses about being able to maintain focus,

Who do you suppose the Ferrari Chairman will throw under the bus during the winter ?



No wait, Kimi is the bus, he is that slow now…


Change for the change sake is nonsensical. I liked the previous logo. This one is not as good as the one before


If Marchionne dared to take Ferrari out of F1, the Tiffosi would hang effigies of him from lamp posts, Ferrari share value would plummet (until recently it was a very good investment) there would be demonstrations in the streets of Modena, if not Torino, Milano, Roma etc. The Northern League could sweep to power, the whole of Europe (well the Euro zone) could collapse!

Maybe Marchionne has enought on his plate with his Chinese partnerships with GAG and others and should appoint another non-Italian to run the team.


I suspect you are not in the market to buy a Ferrari F12 TDF, you’ll change your mind about Ferrari being affected, a car that came out of the factory at £338k if you get one at less than a £1m you will consider yourself very lucky.

Also considering most bums on seat at grandprix’s are wearing Ferrari merchandised.


” Ferrari share value would plummet” I definitely would challenge that as would most analysts I know of and if on the off chance it did drop from reactionary investors then personally I’d see that as a great buying signal.
Ferrari has so much history it doesn’t need any more credibility in F1 (really they have a larger risk of further failure leading to more invesment, more distraction and possible brand tarnish) and it only needs to look at Porsche who have been even more successful dipping in and out of championships as it suits them to build their legend.
F1 is a huge distraction of resource and strategy for Ferrari and if they stepped out for 10 years to focus 100% on their road car and custom cars, then I’d expect to see their PE only increasing in anticipation.

But yes Modena and the entire Emilia Romagna region would be the scene of some very very unhappy Tifosi


@Dave JC – Spot on. But the average Italian has other real-world concerns. and I the shock of a Ferrari pull-out would be quickly digested. There would of-course be the expected hand-wringing by the media and politicians, but Marchionne would care not a jot.


What a wonderful way to go down in history… The man who took Ferrari out of F1.


Unlike LdM and Todt, Marchionne shows no signs of being concerned about his popularity and legacy.


@ Redline…. Cardiman has nerves of steel and he will what he will do in his best interests.


Haha – cardiman – love it! Agree completely. The guy may not be likeable, but he has a reputation for getting his way.


Ferrari aren’t going anywhere, can you imagine the reaction in Italy if they did? There would be rioting in the streets! The sport would continue without them, frankly it wouldn’t mean anymore to me than any other well funded team quitting, but it isn’t going to happen anyway, so doesn’t matter.
The logo looks good, but is of minor importance, the new engines will be the real challenge. The manufacturers were led to believe that their massive investment in the current PUs would be recouped over a longer period than seven years, but they all voted through the current regs, and all had input on the type of engines to be introduced in 2014, and should have thought about the lack of noise and increased costs.


So you think Liberty will stand its ground and let Ferrari go? If so, how much you reckon it will cost them?

Ferrari not leaving may not mean much to you, it will mean a lot to a lot of F1 fans. It would be interesting to know the number of fans for each of the top teams, wouldn’t it? Have a guess which team has the most followers (regardless of who drives the car) across the world. Did you notice how many times RB openly threatened to leave F1? Did you see how many media reports there have been about Mercedes leaving the sport? I quote one Mercedes’ boss after they bought Brawn GP, “we have to win races and championships for us to stay in the sport”. Nick Fry told the media in an interview that the Mercedes board decided to inject the cash in F1 only if they win. After all that, did you notice how much hype there is every time Ferrari even indicates anything about quitting F1? Why do you think that is? I’m guessing you know the answer.


F zero, like I said Ferrari aren’t going anywhere, so it doesn’t matter. If they did leave however, then a lot of their fans would be upset, and no doubt acertain number of those people would stop watching, but the sport would continue.


I don’t know if Ferrari is going anywhere either. That’s irrelevant. The question is how much it will cost Liberty. $100m+ would be my guess, maybe 10 times that. Which brand do you think is worth more market value wise?


F zero. How much does it cost liberty to keep Ferrari? 100m a year? More? Who cares what the respective brand values are? Makes no difference to the 2021 engine regs, and still doesn’t matter as Ferrari still not leaving.


It should be pointed out that with LMP1 falling apart, Ferrari would be most welcome there, I’m sure. And it would have serious negotiating leverage for their team entry.


@ Sebeer…actually i’d love to see a Ferrari LMPI car. That would really be something. Today a 488 parked next to me and it was amazing. Not one person walking past did so without stopping, looking then departing with smiles and it’s not as though Ferraris are scarce around here.


Kenneth, this F1 car is nearly there, is it not? They would surely translate tons of the effort here into an LMP1 car. They could immediately offer customer efforts to Ferrari USA, Ferrari China, etc. There would be tons of takers and LMP1 would be filled with Ferraris. You think that draws attention and bumps the profile of WEC? Would WEC grant Ferrari % of WEC ownership in exchange for Ferrari entry? Do you doubt it?

If F1 ownership can change, and car PUs can change, and F1 logo can change to FI, why does Ferrari always have to be competing in FI? Can’t they also change and go elsewhere? Give us a new flavour? We’re going to get the Ferrari Utility Vehicle, FU-V for short, is Formula 1 the most beautiful racing thing out there? Is it such a snowflake that nothing else appeals?

I went to the IMSA race this year for some proper engine sounds and new flavours, and there was some lovely hardware there to enjoy. I have to say, the Mazda was actually one of my favourites appearance wise. It looked so clean. Cadillac was painted Ferrari red and looked sharp. Lambos looked quite good and I’m conflicted about their V10s and the fact that they are owned by the dieselgate unforgivables. The BMW M6 GT3 cars looked like they were ready to frikken eat anything ahead of them…honest a goddess evil looking! I mean…look at this thing. Imagine that pulling up into your rear view! There is more out there for us to enjoy. And the fan experience cost less and is much more involving and inclusive.


Sebee. The reason the manufacturers left LMP1 was it costs a fortune and nobody watches it.


Maybe if Ferrari were in it, more manufacturers would join, everyone wants to either beat Ferrari or join Ferrari, even Hamilton drives a Ferrari, it is a major boast for any car company to beat them.
Its not so much of a boast to beat Toyota or Audi, so its not worth the money.
If Ferrari left, Mercedes probably will too, no bragging rights to beat a drinks company or Renault who mostly deal in passenger cars.
Just my opinion, and i am not a Ferrari fan at all, i really dont understand how they became such a big brand.


Jimothy, I think manufacturers enter F1 to beat everybody, you may be focussed on Ferrari, but those of us who remember when they were also rans, stuck in the mid field with no titles for 21 years, probably find it much easier to imagine F1 without Ferrari.


I thought it was obvious they want to beat everybody, but why would it matter for road car street cred if they beat Williams or Haas etc?
Beating Ferrari is great for advertising.


Jimothy, asI said previously, for 21 years in F1, beating Ferrari was routine for half the grid!


If Ferrari pulls out the F1 as a sport is dead. I cant imagine watching the Renault and Honda trying to catch a detuned Mercedes.

Mercedes finished 20 seconds ahead of Ferrari who also finished 20 seconds ahead of Redbull.

Let’s not touch how much the value of F1 will drop, Lamborghini or Porsche don’t compete in F1 yet they are shifting cars in 000’s without advertising.


Rockie, you might stop watching, but many would continue.


…lack of noise, increased costs, and for Renault and Honda their complete lack of engineering skills to be able to even come close, even years down the line when things usually converge and become more reliable with stability 😉


Clarkes. Ferrari and Mercedes have converged. The same number of engine penalties, the same number of failures and 2% between them in horsepower. Renault could, and should have done a better job, and Honda have no excuses either.


Mercedes 15 poles, Ferrari 5 poles

Mercedes 12 victories, Ferrari 5 victories

Mercedes 26 podiums, Ferrari 20 podiums

Mercedes 7 fastest laps, Ferrari 5 fastest laps
(plus my personal favourite – McLaren 1!!!)

Fastest laps Mercedes 9 (usually cruising at race end low fuel), Ferrari 7 fastest laps

Laps completed Lewis 1st 1195, Bottas 3rd 1168, Seb 5th (first non Merc)1089, Kimi 10th 1011
(Alonso 830, Max 819 – 376 laps less than Lewis)

Points behind Lewis: Seb 46, Kimi only 158 behind.

Mercedes managing/parts preservation/sandbagging – every race,
Ferrari pushing as much as they could – every race

Merc Q3 engine mode – Goliath, Ferrari Q3 engine mode – david…

starting to go off track here (like Lewis on a hot lap) 😉

In summary, NO convergance really…

Prospects of 2018 convergance with less units per season – minimal.


The numbers speak for themselves Clarks!


Sars, especially if you make them up!


What stats that Clarks produced above are made up Tim as i even double checked the poles, podiums and victories and they are factually correct. Just because they go along way in proving the Merc was the most dominant car this season, contrary to what you want many to believe, doesn’t mean they are true at all.


Sars, such a stickler for accuracy all of a sudden! Clarks numbers are accurate, although he ignores any numbers that don’t point towards Mercedes donination, and isn’t interested in the reasons behind some of those numbers. The bit he made up was the whole sandbagging thing, utter nonsense. You and Clarks will have to come up with a lot more than that if you want me to ignore the real experts who say the Merc and Ferrari were very evenly matched this year.


Clarks. The reason Ferrari didn’t win in Baku and Singapore was nothing to do with a lack of performance. Are you suggesting that they didn’t have a car capable of winning at Spa and Barcelona?
The stuff about Merc sandbagging and Ferrari pushing every race comes urely from your imagination. The quali mode comparison would be interesting, if I get time I might compare the lap time gain between q1 and q3 for both teams, you might not like the result though.


Mercedes would have won Baku on pure performance without the freak head rest issue.


As they would have won Brazil if their star driver has his head in the game.


NickH, yes they would, and who should have been in a position to punish them for their mistake? Clue, the same guy who should have won in Singapore on pure performance.


They both made mistakes, that dosent mean that Ferrari was the better car, it just shows Clarkes post is correct, he was talking about Mercedes dominance, not who could have won the race.


Jimothy. The point I am making is that 12 wins out of 20 flatters Mercedes. It could easily have been less.


Could have been more if Hamilton was more consistent.
Would you like some proof that Hamilton is inconsistent?
I will give you some,
Hamilton is a much better driver than VB yes?
Why didnt he consistently beat him?
According to C63 Hamilton was a better driver in 2007 than Rosberg ever was.
Why didnt he consistently beat him?


Jimothy, define ‘consistent’, what is an acceptable number of times for a driver to beathis team mate over a season?


What does ‘dead space’ between the f and the 1 mean?


Perhaps people thought the red was the ‘1’?




man this logo was really cool!


The 1 is the gap?


Two notes from me.

Such a big deal was made at the end of 2015 of Rosberg winning the last four races after Lewis tied up the title, so I find it curious that this year someone is finally reporting that Lewis has NEVER won a race after getting the Championship.

Doesn’t sound like such a big deal, now. Just one of those things.

On the new F1 logo, the flat, white, two-dimensional version looks utter [mod] to be frank, but the red revolving 3D version that was shown after the podium didn’t look too bad.

Congrats to Bottas for the win, congrats to Lewis for the title.

I’m assuming Lewis’ new engine was powered down to match his team-mates, or he had an old engine. I certainly saw none of the dominance that the new engine had in Brazil compared to Valterri’s PU, soooooo…


because the old logo doesn’t work on digital content and on screens due to the dead space between the F and the 1

Err, the ‘dead space’ is the 1. It’s why it worked so well on digital content (worked well as an overlay) and on screen (both an overlay and simple branding logo).

What a Farce 1.


I don’t understand how the logo can be so bad and seemingly ill thought out.
It’s true that it could have been put to the fans but it’s a rather too important a sign of the new business to trust to the public.
As to the race……hopefully by next year a massive sand storm will have completely covered the entire area.


The Logo sucks big time !!!!!
It’s so average that it makes the London Olympics logo look exciting even with its epilepsy indusing shaking and shimmering.

F1 needs to sort out its race tracks . They need to keep Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka, COTA, Canada they are the only places where it’s exciting as overtaking is possible.
The other tracks are just a yawn fest.
Hopefully the German GP will be good and maybe the French GP next season.

I have no idea why Abu Dhabi should be the last race show stopper….it should be better race track. Or they should rejig the whole race track at Abu Dhabi or it’ll be a convoy conga ! After all its a rich country that seems to thrive on making money while paying it’s oversea workers from 3rd world countries peanuts.


I have no idea why Abu Dhabi should be the last race show stopper….

That’s easy – $$$$$

You’re right though – the track is awful. Quite how it can be so bad seeing as money was literally no object is a mystery .


Well, there were quite a few constraints – the circuit had to fit around a marina, several hotels, a golf club and a couple of theme parks…


Well maybe they should have put the circuit somewhere else then. Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you are saying – but these same people have ambitions (and the money) to build a skyscraper which is a kilometre tall. Surely they could have designed a circuit which allowed a reasonable prospect of two cars on similar pace overtaking one another. They did it at the CoTA for a fraction of the cost – why not at AnDab too?


@C63 – actually my comment was a bit tongue in cheek. They started with a blank canvas, so could have built the track any way they wanted. But (quite intelligently I think…) they knew that it was other “stuff” that would be revenue generating rather than the track, so there were necessarily compromises in an attempt to make the whole area development somewhat sustainable financially.


I love Suzuka but we get almost no passing there so I have to disagree with your justificaition “they are the only places where it’s exciting as overtaking is possible.”

You’ve also ignored that Bahrain and Malaysia (RIP) have given us some great recent races, surprising but true and Austria is nicely unpredictable.


Firstly, Liberty must address the inequality of the monies shared amongst teams. This is at the root of many of F1’s woes, and is just plain unfair.

Ferrari will obviously lose out a little but an even spread will help even up competition.

Without the co-operation of the Prancing Horse, Liberty could fall at the first hurdle…. 😬


Agreed the distribution is unfair. Ferrari of course stands out because they get the most. Don’t forget RB, Mercedes, McLaren and even Williams (despite finishing behind Force India) get a fair bit of the prize money. I don’t know if you have seen any of the press conferences where Horner and Wolff have been asked about the prize money distribution. I quote Wolff, “we need to discuss that in private” and Horner’s response, “I agree with Toto”. What do you think that tells you? There are more than one big fish in the sea. Media only point out the biggest one, Ferrari.


Media only point out the biggest one, Ferrari.

You sound a little bit defensive there…..


Lol keep dreaming.


So, if you weren’t defending Ferrari, who were you defending ?


Trust you interpreting the comment the way it suits you. If you must know, I wasn’t defending anyone. I was pointing out the hypocrisy. News for you, check out Mercedes’ latest reaction to 2021 proposed engine rule. Let’s see how many comments we see about that by the readers in this blog. Wait, let’s see what JA writes about it first.


“… check out Mercedes’ latest reaction to 2021 proposed engine rule. Let’s see how many comments we see about that by the readers in this blog.”

You’re talkin’ about Toto’s quasi-quit threat? My reaction is the same as it was to Ferrari’s … if you want to go, then go. You can’t have the patients running the asylum. Teams are welcome to make useful suggestions, and the FIA should of course collaborate with the teams on any new rules. But the final say on the rules should be the FIA’s alone, and should be done in the interests of all participants, instead of one or two big teams.

That is my (consistent) position.


@ KRB….The asylum is in fact a ‘collective’ and in this case the ‘patients’ do have a say, a very big one in fact. Post 2020 the teams still have intact tangible assets with which to go racing. The same cannot be said for the ‘asylum’ owners who have paid a huge sum for what? A racing organisation without any racers or races!!! The patients will do what they need to maintain their status quo or as close as they can do and failing that we’ll see the total disintegration of what was once a thriving business masquerading as a ‘sport’.


So you weren’t defending anyone – just pointing out that it’s unfair to single out Ferrari. Why didn’t you just say that then?


Emperor Sergio should look back at Italian history… Great Uncle Nero also thought that he was irreplaceable and did nothing while a Rome disintegrated around him.
Sergio needs to understand, that if you let the golden goose die, you don’t get any more golden eggs.


Regardless of the technical regulations going forward from 2021, something really does need tI change with Ferrari. It has a competitive advantage as a Engine manufacturer but more important is its F1 participation is fully funded by F1 through uncompetitive financial agreements. Even with these it can’t put a championship together.

If they level the playing field with financial fair play I can see them walking away as they will struggle to be competitive through their own funding.


I’m please that Force India has taken over the whole sport. That is an “I” right?

Did Liberty spend the obligatory $500,000 on research of the logo and hiring a cracking design firm to give us this 80s looking thing? Don’t get me wrong…nothing against the 80s.

No wonder Force India decided not to rename the team.

Oh…can we have that logo on pink for a race or two? For awareness of course.


Actually the new logo was designed by an ad agency that I used to work for. It no doubt cost an arm and a leg! Guess what other major clients that agency has – funnily enough the biggest two are Nike and Coca Cola…


The old logo could only be stiched on by expereinced teenage kids from the big country that does these things.
The new logo can be stiched on by anyone over eight,
…hence cheaper merch.

Trouble is, the counterfitters can slap that logo on their fake goods with two fat permanent marker pens taped together…


Cynical! But probably right!


That logo might have cost 60-100k. So what, it’s good and sleek. The logo WAS dated…


You think it was dated? I think it was quite timeless font wise, looked sharp and clear. In motion.

To me this new logo looks dated already with this font. Looks a lot like some sci-fi B-Movie font.

I understand the double stem F for a circuit turn, but I don’t like it for that same gimmick reason. And the 1 is not clear at all. It looks like an I to me. Force India logo looks more F1ish than this new logo.


I think it looks cheap and tacky. Add a solid chequered flag behind it and you’ve got something fit for a low end corporate karting event firm.
First small step in ‘Americanising’ F1. Bring on the plastic razzmatass next. Also…… I swear crofty has got louder and more dramatic with his commentary since the yanks have come in. NBA/NFL stylee!! F1, please remain or at least aspire to be genuine…… I didn’t expect a logo to make me so grumpy….sorry about that.


Def 80’s look. Bizarre


Relating to what Sebee says here, this might be why I heard, possibly on SKy F1, that Force India has been disallowed from switching to the “Force One” name.

Maybe a clash with Formula One’s new branding was considered a bit of a risk.


My understanding is that Cybersquatters had nabbed the Force One web URL and that they have now ‘come to an arrangement’ … not sure if they were told to hand over the URL or if FI bought it off them.


Yeah sebee
Liberty is just a bloated marketing firm…they think by bragging about it they will get more people to watch the content. When the actual sport is going downhill with engines lack of competition and the hideous rule changes.


The anti-climax. Not only we had a world champion crowned 3 ravea ago…we had to suffer za most boring race eva. Max was not able to save it.


The logo change is a big missed opportunity. They should have crowd sourced designs from fans and run it as a promotion through the teams’, media partners’ and sponsors’ platforms. Having an ad agency do it is very old school. But the interview with W&K in Creative Review is very instructive – no sports rights holder has ever taken sponsor integration into its visual identity system so seriously.


Crowd sourcing? Then we would have ended up with F1 McF1-face…


It’s not Blue Peter. ‘Crowd sourcing’ logos is the equavalent of going on People Per Hour and choosing some guy who can knock up a logo for twenty quid.


You might want to brush up on crowdsourcing techniques…moved on a bit.


With regard to the new logo – I have to say I think it looks better in the image above than it did on the screen above the podium just after the race. Overall though I’m not sure why they felt the need to change. I’ve noticed over the years how big business often seem to change their logo’s and I’ve never really understood why, or what difference those who made the decision thought it made. Coca Cola is a good example of a company which has never changed (at least not that i’ve noticed in the last 50 odd years) it’s logo and it doesn’t seem to have hurt them too badly.

On the matter of closer competition – I reckon that you need 3 or maybe 4 teams competing at the sharp end, maximum. But if the playing field is so level that on any given day their is just as much chance of a Manor winning as there is say a Ferrari or Mercedes then I think it will feel false. The public, in general, like to get behind winners and they like their superstars – if everyone is equal then how do we get our winners and superstars? You don’t get the likes of a Ronaldo playing for a team like Bournemouth (no offence) they play for the top teams like Man Utd (before anyone corrects me, I know he doesn’t currently play at Man U, but I am just trying to illustrate my point)

Finally, as for whether Bottas has what it takes to beat Hamilton – he’ll need a run of lopsided reliability like Rosberg had to do it. Otherwise no chance (imo).
If AbDab was a circuit where overtaking was possible without a 1+ second/lap advantage then Bottas would have been toast. Hamilton has completely dominated Bottas this season and a couple of races at the end of the season, when everything is done and dusted, are not the same as when it is all up for grabs and the pressure is on.


You don’t get the likes of a Ronaldo playing for a team like Bournemouth (no offence) they play for the top teams like Man Utd

That is because Football, just like F1, is a very European sport in the sense that it is dominated by a very limited number of entities. Sports in the US generally have a bit more parity between the competing teams, and you’ll find top players playing for teams that sometimes haven’t won a championship in ages. There are still teams that win more than others (Patriots, Yankees etc.), but at least outsider teams still have a shot at actually winning.


Football, just like F1, is a very European sport

Maybe we all just like our sports the way they are. It’s fair to say that the sports which are popular in the US are not exactly taking over the rest of the world and vice versa, soccer and F1 isn’t exactly front page news in the states. One mans meat as they say 🙂



Not sure by what you mean by American sports not exactly taking over the rest of the world but basketbal, which was invented in the USA, is now played in virtually every country on the planet and enjoys wide-spread support. It’s a key team sport in the summer Olympics and has a World Cup every 4 years. Only country where it hasn’t taken off, comparative to other countries, is the UK, from what I can see.


Perhaps I didn’t explain myself properly Adrian. I am not trying to claim that the sports which are popular in the US are unheard of in other countries, but maybe they don’t enjoy quite the same popularity elsewhere. Football (soccer) is like a religion in many countries throughout the world – not really so much in the US. Gridiron is hugely popular in the USA – not so much elsewhere.Sure they play it outside the states, but is it followed with the same passion by the masses? Also, I take your point about basketball (I had not really considered that) – but is that not more of an exception, an outlier as it where?


@C63….all i can add to that is that i desperately hope that we see no further ‘Americanisation’ of F1. That pathetic and cringeworthy intro at COTA was a fiasco and should never be repeated. They even have the temerity to call their baseball a ‘world series’, another joke.


Oh c’mon now kenneth – the intro at the COTA wasn’t so bad. On the strict understanding it is only done there I wouldn’t mind.
We have a football (primarily) commentator here in the UK called Jonathan Pearce. Try and see if you can hear some of his work – I don’t think you’ll like him! He’s quite excitable 🙂


@ C63…If he bears any resemblance whatsoever to Buffer then why would i bother? I am not into shallow gimmicks like this. They are not classy or even intelligent. To accord celebrity status to someone for an exaggerated and phony use of the language is symptomatic of the current trend of fake notoriety. I don’t like it….Give me Murray Walker anyday.


Interesting comment C63. Since when did you start seeing Bottas as unworthy in that car?

In regards to your equality theory (another one to the list), I’m not sure JA suggesting all drivers to be equal. The point I took is that the cars need to be much closer in terms of speed and power, not saying equal. Then the drivers can fight it out fairly. Like Porto winning the Champions League, Leicester winning the EPL, Greece winning the Euro, NZ winning the America’s Cup (with less than quarter of the American team’s budget) How often had that happened in F1, especially in the last decade! These two are also championship over multiple games (events) like F1. You get the point.


Since when did you start seeing Bottas as unworthy in that car?

I don’t believe I said that – are you seeing things that aren’t there like you did with the grass fed theory?


Oh you need more time to admit? No worries mate.


More time to admit what? Lest we should forget, you are the one who has been up and down like a yoyo. “Ferrari are going to win, oh no they never had a chance, oh wait they are going to win, no I was right all along they never had a chance etc etc etc” . You are just the same with Bottas – it was you who said he was great and then changed your mind and decided he was unworthy of his seat. Not me. I think he is a perfect fit at Mercedes alongside Hamilton – just look at the results; WCC with 4 races to spare and WDC with 2. It isn’t like the ‘formula’ isn’t working is it?


Here you go. That’s the usual C63 I know, “master of claiming fiction as fact”. I’m not surprised that you managed to make up everything in one thread. You didn’t need much time after all mate.


Specifically what am I claiming as fact which in reality is fiction? Perhaps you’d care to elaborate.


Plenty of people have plenty of times including me. No point watering a dead plant.


So you’ve got no examples then? Not even one?


C63, traditionally this is where conversations with F zero come to a close, he really doesn’t like being challenged to back up his claims does he?


Well he had some thinking time and you were right. He came up with zilch…..


like being challenged to back up his claims

It would appear not…..or maybe he just needs some thinking time 🙂


By lopsided reliability you mean one engine failure 😂 Still it burns lol.


You can keep Malaysia ’16 in the mix, and just take out China ’16. In China he started P22 (last), and got up to 7th. Even if he started P2, he would’ve easily ended up P2, as Rosberg finished 37 secs ahead of P2 man Vettel that day. That’s 12 extra points just there, enough to win.

Russia & Belgium, even in a worst case scenario, would net an extra 3 pts. Then of course Malaysia was a 28 pts swing.

A Best X of Y Results system would for the most part negate, or severely lessen, the role of chance and luck in a driving skills competition. This year, a two-thirds system (so this season would have been a best 14 results from 20 races) would have resulted in a final tally of:

HAM 309
VET 275
BOT 255

Vettel’s 3 races where he DNF’d or had reliability in qualifying are negated, while Hamilton’s Mexican result, where his race was ruined by Vettel’s clumsiness, are removed as factors in the final tally. The most deserving driver still wins out in the end, but through their driving.

I find it hilarious that Rosberg still tries to say that he won b/c he went all Zen with everything outside of the car. You got lucky Nico, so just enjoy it. Don’t make it into something it’s not, ‘cos everyone knows that with anything close to even reliability, you would lose. That’s why the team principals had him 3rd last year in the top driver poll, with Hamilton 1st. ‘Cos they all have two eyes with some grey stuff in behind.

It’s just the same as when he whooped it up in delight after getting pole at Monaco ’14. The top dogs, the ones with winning in their blood, wouldn’t be caught dead doing that … they know which wins are worth celebrating, and which you take but don’t then go overboard with.


Still bitter huh?


Forever salty…..


Forever salty…..

12:40 pmNovember 28, 2017
kenneth1 Star2 Star3 Star4 Star5 Star
….This seaon alone Ricciardo has had to take nine engines when they are only allowed four! Collectively, across all renault engined cars i dread to think what the total is. These sub standard engines have helped to destroy driver’s reputations by costing them valuable points. Not only does losing an engine lose the driver points in the race but they then suffer a further draconian penalty in the next race by having preposterous grid place drops as well!!….

Seriously (don’t try to score points) what’s the difference between what happened to Hamilton in 2016 and Ric in 2017? I see you are quite reasonably upset at Ric’s misfortunes – why is it unreasonable for Hamilton fans to be equally aggrieved ?


It’s not, but ust remind me though when Hamilton took three DNF’s out of four consecutive races in any one season?


Fair point kenneth – the Renault (Tag) PU’s have been poor (to say the least) and I am the first one to say that the grid penalties are unfair – they are just a kick in the teeth for a driver that’s already been disadvantaged. Personally I don’t like the whole idea of rationing parts – it’s just not very ‘F1″ imo. I used to like it best when they had quali engines and fitted a new engine and gearbox every weekend and had a spare car sitting in the garage ready to go – the extravagance appealed to me.


I used to like it best when they had quali engines and fitted a new engine and gearbox every weekend and had a spare car sitting in the garage ready to go – the extravagance appealed to me.

Couldn’t agree more.


@ C63…cool response. You’ll get no argument out of me when remembering the times when engines were [relatively] cheap and available so that we saw what real racing was. It’s only when you look back and then evaluate the ‘creep’ that has occurred over the years to arrive at this ‘vanilla’ recipe that we now have that you begin to relish the past, in concept, more. I have no wish to see the past replicated in a fully technical sense but those good elements in theory should be where we are going. Let’s simplify the motive elements and introduce some greater degree of freedom. Newey recently commented on this and he shares those self same opinions.


Here’s the thing though KRB, no matter how much you decry how you believe Rosberg lucked into his WDC the record books will simply state the obvious, NICO ROSBERG 2017 WDC.
Have at it although i must admit i read as much of your post as i would a letter from my ex mother in law ..


Sars, and however many salty man tears you shed, the wdc winner in 2008, 2014, 2015 and 2017 will remain the same……


Just because i rate the Merc as the real star of those years doesnt mean im salty at all. I mean, i certainly dont spend all my time here replying to evey single comment when guys like yourself gush over his every race, as you do to those that dont. As you know Tim, i actually rate Lewis however the fact i believe his performances are flattered by the car the vast majority of them have been in it whst seems to bring out the saltiness and thats from guys like yourself.
And honestly, i still cant believe a second rate driver like Rosberg beat him either .


Sarsipious, as part of your new found dedication to accuracy, perhaps you could give us some examples of the gushy post race comments that you seem to see everywhere? Perhaps you could also point to anyone trying to claim that the Mercedes wasn’t the best car in 14,15 and 16, and while your at it, as you rate Lewis so highly, maybe an example of a positive comment from you about him.


Its a shame Massa doesn’t have many passionate fan boys to point out the luck that went lewis’ way in 2008…. Bottom line is every world champion has had some form of good fortune on there way to a title!


Spud. Massa and Lewis drove for different teams in 2008.


2017 WDC?! Still on the opioids? 😉 Yes, Nico Rosberg is and will forevermore be the 2016 F1 Champion. Not every year can have an unquestionably deserving winner. F1 is a sport where that can happen, more than other sports.

Ex-mother-in-law … the picture fills in a little more. My mother-in-law can get on my nerves too sometimes, but on balance she’s great. She’s turning 70 on Friday actually, and we’re having a party for her on Sunday. She fled Hungary in ’56 with her family during the Revolution.

Did you read all that? ‘Course ya did. 😀


Did you read all that?

Too right he did. In fact, I bet he read it more than once 🙂


Sarsippious. One engine failure (while leading), two qualifying failures and a last place starting position thanks to penalties. But of course Lewis didn’t lose any points at all to those breakdowns, did he…..?


That engine failure was probably caused by excessive use of the secret engine mode which no customer team had, which would also explain why Rosberg backed off in the last 4 races.


Jimothy. Your opinions are always so imaginative! The engine that failed in Malaysia was brand new for that race and Lewis had a sizeable lead and was running unchallenged with everything turned down when it failed. Why was he unchallenged? Because Nico got involved in a first corner incident that damaged his car and dropped him down the order, which neatly disproves your second theory that Rosberg wasn’t trying for poles and wins in the last four races. If he could get clobbered by Vettel from second on the grid in Malaysia, how did he know the same thing wouldn’t happen again?