Max Verstappen has “no regrets” on Austin F1 row as Fernando Alonso signs for 24 hour race
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Posted By: James Allen  |  26 Oct 2017   |  5:33 pm GMT  |  185 comments

[Updated] Max Verstappen has said that he does not regret what he did in Austin in passing Kimi Raikkonen the way he did, nor speaking out afterwards although he does feel that the words he used, criticising the FIA race stewards, were “not correct”.

He later apologised to the FIA for his choice of words and said that he had not meant to single out any one individual in his criticisms.

Verstappen was furious to be removed from the podium after fighting his way from 16th to 3rd, with a last gasp overtake on Kimi Raikkonen, but the stewards felt he gained an unfair advantage by cutting the inside of the corner.

“The thoughts are pretty similar; it was a great race. The pace of the car was great now three times in a row and I hope to continue here in Mexico,” said the 20 year old Dutchman.

He was critical of the Race Direction and stewards in Austin for not giving any guidance on the track limits throughout the weekend and for punishing only him for exceeding them, when he felt everyone had done so all weekend.

“They never told us anything, from practice one everyone was running wide and they didn’t say anything,” he said.

“He (Kimi) tried to close the door and the Austin track gives the chance to run inside. First I tried to avoid an accident and then to overtake him.”

“After a race emotions run high when you have been taken off a podium. The punishment was not correct because many people were going off the track if I was really gaining and advantage i would do it every single lap. Other people were cutting the corner and

“I could have used different words but I still think the punishment was not correct. I was angry at that time. You have to understand my point. I wasn’t trying to offend anyone but the words were not correct.

“But that’s the way I am; I’m not going to hold back.”

Sergio Perez supported Verstappen confirming that there was no guidance from the Race Director or Stewards during the weekend.

FIA Race Director Charlie Whiting spoke to the media on Thursday afternoon in Mexico.

“I think the accusations of inconsistency are pretty much without foundation – the only time that it was absolutely clear that the driver gained an advantage [in Austin], the driver was duly penalised and that is really where we are coming from, I believe,” he said. “We have to try to take a practical approach to this – there is an element of wanting to let the drivers race. It is only when it is absolutely clear that the stewards need to get involved.

“Leaving the track is not an offence in itself but if a driver does so he must rejoin the track safety and without gaining any lasting advantage. Those words are really important in this case.

“There were a number of occasions when drivers left the track during race and practice that were not formally looked at by stewards purely because no lasting advantage was gained.


Ricciardo in demand as a team mate

Asked why he had decided to commit to Red Bull Racing until the end of 2020, rather than see what possibilities may exist at Ferrari or Mercedes, Verstappen said, “I feel good at the team and the improvements we made this year are the most of the whole grid. We will start better next year and I believe in the team. What’s also important is to have people around you who support you. Why would I give that up? If we can improve the horsepower then we can be competitive.”

Verstappen added he would like Daniel Ricciardo to remain with the team ideally. Sebastian Vettel also said in the FIA press conference in Mexico that he would not mind racing alongside Ricciardo in 2019.

Alonso goes into 24 hour endurance racing
Fernando Alonso meanwhile will start his 24 hour racing career with an assault on the Daytona 24 hours next January with Zak Brown’s United Autosports team. He will partner McLaren junior driver Lando Norris, the reigning FIA F3 champion in what is sure to be a wonderful learning experience for the youngster from Bristol.

They will be joined by Phil Hanson, who is the reigning Asian Le Mans Series LMP3 Champion, who raced the Ligier sportscar they will campaign, having raced it in the European Le Mans Series and the Le Mans 24 Hours in 2017.

Testing at Daytona will be 5-7 January with the 24 hour race two weeks later on 26-27 January.

“My aim is to be a complete driver and this experience will help me in the preparation for any other endurance race I might take part in,” said Alonso, who has already hinted that he will be racing at the Le Mans 24 hours before too long. He hinted last month and time will tell whether he confirms his presence on the grid in the 2018 Le Mans, perhaps after getting a taster in Daytona and dependent on how competitive the 2018 McLaren Renault proves to be.

“Before I went to Indy, I had never driven on an oval, now I know what an oval is and how to deal with it. I am excited to go back and race in America.”

Alonso’s peers commented on the move, “It’s a good experience for Fernando. Probably he will think of Le Mans.It’s a race you would like to do. My brother did it last year (Daytona) it’s an amazing venue and a race I would like to do,” said Sergio Perez.

“If I like it I may do it, but I would only want to do it with my Dad,” said Verstappen. “But the priority is to stay in F1 as long as possible.”

“All the best !” said Vettel. “If you look back in the past drivers used to race a lot more in different cars which I find pretty cool. You had to be able to adapt. Now the sport is very professional but I quite like the idea to drive more in different cars.”

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1

Max needs to read the Sporting Regulations, specifically regulation 27.3:

"Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and
may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason. ... Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. "

He doesn't seem to understand the fact that he made up a place as a direct result of having left the track - even claiming in the press conference that he was trying to avoid an accident with Raikkonen. His attitude absolutely stinks, and betrays his immaturity. It's everyone's fault except his, apparently. Well, Max, you were driving the car and you broke the rules.

2

Its supposed to be racing. More often than not rules are for fools on the track.

Define reasonable to a racing driver - especially in that exact situation.

The rule book is not binary - the red sea did not actually parted....

3

Maybe interesting to add, I guess Alonso should have read these regulations as well, considering that he passed Sainz in the last lap of the 2016 US grand prix by fully locking up, going off track, and rejoining ahead of Sainz. He kept the 5th place by the way.

4

Did HAM make a reasonable effort staying on track at his pole-lap? Did VET with overtaking HAM? Did SAI at overtaking OCO? etc etc. You can boehoe at Max, but rules are not only for him. He understands very well be broke the rule, but he (and many with him) do not understand why the rule only applied to him. That he used big words afterwards is not good (and he admitted that) but i think the dissapointment at that time is understandable.

5

Absolutely agreed - It's not like this is his first race and I'm sure that he was already aware of that rule.

To put it another way, I know jay walking is illegal and I could get in trouble for it.

If some day I did get in trouble for it then it wouldn't matter that everyone does it, nor would it matter that Charlie and his friends didn't mention it to me that day, I would have done the wrong thing and that's that, and if I happened to be the only one that got in trouble for it that day then that's tough luck for me.

So, in short, suck it up Max.

6

I know jay walking is illegal

Fair point, but what if you and half a dozen finds were all jay walking at the same time and you were the only one that got picked out of your crowd and received a fine? Would you not feel slightly miffed and point out that there were six others right beside you in the middle of the road doing exactly the same thing? I don't know you, but I'd be surprised if you just stood there and said nothing about the injustice of the situation.

7

You're right C63 and I certainly would point out that the others were doing the same as me, but I would still take the fine on the chin and I certainly wouldn't call the authorities an idiot - That never ends well which is something that Max may discover for himself sooner rather than later 🙂

"Are you kidding? Another penalty?" 🙁
"Well, you know, we're idiots" 🙂

8

wouldn't call the authorities an idiot

You're not wrong there Random - butting heads with the authorities usually ends badly and if Max Mosely was still in charge I suspect that young Max would be sitting in the garage for Mexico. I just felt that there were an awful lot of drivers exceeding the track limits at Austin and, whilst that doesn't excuse Max's overtake, it does allow him a certain amount of wriggle room when it comes to challenging the decision. If they enforced track limits everywhere then the argument wouldn't exist.

9

@ Random [the real one] 79 How very true.

10

Just keep on clinging to this explanation, regardless of literally no one with a proper sense of justice agreeing with you.
Like Ross Brawn stated: A "technically" correct decision" which translates into : A "morally" wrong decision.

11

@ dave M...very well said.

12

Broke the rules that didn't apply to anyone else or at any time during the weekend, apparently.

13

James I am very disappointed to read Max's comments . He clearly committed an infringement and should accept full responsibility for it. This is Max's 3rd season of F1 he should be starting to be more mature on such incidents than this. I really want to like Max as a driver but his refusal to accept certain mistakes he makes makes me hesitant to do so. Not learning from his mistakes could harm his future prospects. Max is mega talented but sometimes he lacks discipline . I hope this improves as Max gets older.

14

Oh please, for the love of god, no. First of all, the point was not the rules, but applying the rules clearly and consistently. Second, he did apologize today for the language, but not for the opinion. This is fine, apologize for words, but don't waver under pressure.

But mostly, please let him not change character, this is one of the main things that make him as a driver. Do you rather have an always smiling Ricciardo, media-trained and never showing his true face, driving between al the lines, boring us all? I rather have someone who tells the truth even in the most emotional moments, even if some people don't like it. It's much more entertaining.

I like the racing character Verstappen, especially considering how young he was and still is. If it were up to people like you, all the complainers - all the Vettels and Massa's, would have convinced the young kind "how to behave" long ago, a lesser character would have changed. They try and try to bully this kid into submission, but you can't, and I think that is strong, especially since all those "conflicts" were not black&white, but he had strong, defensible points.

And the effect of all this? Hamilton called him "this guy" in the beginning. Now he respects Max. And the champion elect, the number one, neatly moved to the side when he saw Verstappen in his mirror in Malaysia. They know when he comes, and that he will make the move. They know when they come, he won't move aside just like Sainz and others. Please let him stay this character. It's racing at the very top, not a parade of agreeable characters.

15

Jan
Nice post and it's difficult not to agree with a lot of what you've said (although it's easy also to agree with a lot of what Stephan wrote). It's refreshing to see characters like this. Hamilton got into similar sorts of trouble in his first few year, and has gone on to be an excellent racer and champion. He still has moments and periods of weakness (though hardly in 2017) but that's what makes him an interesting and polarising character. F1 needs those.

I would take slight issue with one aspect of your post, though:

They know when he comes, and that he will make the move. They know when they come, he won't move aside just like Sainz and others.

That's fine, but his defence of positions and his move on Kimi aren't always within what the rules are, or how the majority of racers understand them (i.e. moving under braking). I'm personally not sure that that makes him great and fun to watch because he's a great drivers as much as we're all curious because he feels he has less to lose.

Thus far, he's not been competing for anything other than individual race wins and has never been in contention for anything. He's often racing against those that are fighting for driver or constructor championships, and so have something to lose. It'll be interesting to see how things are when he inevitably ends up in situation where he can contend for championships.

16

The problem I have with Max is every time he makes a mistake he does not see the error his ways even privately it would seem-he never believes he is wrong even when in some cases it's obvious he is. I don't agree with you about Daniel either, he does not bore me-I prefer him to Max personally . I'm not saying Max should lose his aggression in his driving but he should learn to control it more.

17

@ Jan van Diemen Why do you find it necessary to denigrate Ricciardo in your sycophantic rant bigging up Verstappen? It is pointless, if you want to be taken seriously. You and all the others need to deal with the specific issue. He cheated and he paid the penalty...why is that so hard to understand?

18

""sycophantic rant bigging up Verstappen?"" Come on. Let it go. Your loosing every perspective now.

19

Why can't I have an opinion about Ricciardo on a F1 discussion platform? If you disagree with my opinion, I advise you to give counter-arguments. And now it's not only about the rules and how they are applied, but Verstappen is a "cheater"? And people with another opinion about him are sycophantic? Now, now. It seems to me you have personal issues with Verstappen. Calm down, it's just racing, it's entertainment.

20

@ JVD...By all means you are entitled to your opinion but why do you feel the need to pour scorn on Daniel Ricciardo with a barrage of negatives and insults in order to give your driver a leg up? surely you're mature enough make your point without introducing such shallow and conceited remarks. Opinions go both ways or haven't you grasped that yet. The discussion was about Verstappen and his 'cheating' move and Ricciardo was not involved in the incident that i witnessed. I have absolutely no problem with Verstappen, he's fast and he's ultra competitive and if you have been following this site for long enough you'd know that this was my published POV before the season even started.

21

@kenneth I find your premise very particular. Why do you post a big rant against Verstappen, but feel I cannot make a side mark about Ricciardo, where you feel "I cannot be taken seriously" and "pour scorn"? Apparently only you may rant, in a much bigger way? If we go that way, you should be consistent and not take yourself seriously and ask yourself why you feel the need to pour scorn on Verstappen and on me. Opinions go both ways or haven't you grasped that yet?

22

I certainly agree to some extent, however we should not forget that he's still a 20 year old who is heavily influenced by important people around him - like Horner, Marko and his dad - whom share similar believes on this and many other incidents. I don't think it's very realistic to expect something completely different from him as long as they keep strengthening his opinions.

23

I fully agree with every word Max is saying. The decision was ridicilous.

24

Never mind the Verstappen farrago, he might be a gifted driver but behaves like an oik, just like daddy. The great news is Feranado and Lando doing the Daytona 24! I’ll devinitely tune in for that..

25

his behaviour is part of his giftedness..

26
Clarks4WheelDrift

Me too as Indy was fantastic and Le Mans as well. Never seen a Daytona without Nascars before...

Nando, Lando and Hanso.

Alonso better take first stint, incase the lad gets over excited and bins it in the first couple of hours 😉

27

@ Clarkes....I really like that Alonso is trying so many different forms of racing. Back in the late 60's early 70's we used to have the trans Tasman series whereby all the Grand Prix drivers would descend en masse to here in Australia and NZ for a non championship series after the season had finished. It was great fun and the drivers all seemed thrilled to be here plus we got to see them in all their glory. Drivers like Courage, Amon, Brabham, Graham Hill etc etc etc were all here and they provided us with some dynamic races. Would love to see something like that once more but i very much doubt it could be done.

28

Good to see Alonso in a good place and trying different things , wish him the best of luck !

29

You stand by your words and Max has every right to do so. (Unlike Vettel who snapped with a break test mirage of his own making).
Still think Max deserved the 3rd place unlike all the Antipodeans who seem to to snap whenever Max is mentioned and their beloved Ricci isn't mentioned in Red Bull despatches.
This is the new Vettel Webber cat fight.
I can hear the Home and Away theme tune kicking off already 💀😄
Alonso and Norris at Daytona that's top drawer. Future world champion Lando Norris and double World Champ Alonso that'll be one to watch. Assume it'll be on the BT ESPN channel. Another behind the 0ay wall channel.

30

Is a 'break test' a button on the wheel that they press to test what happens when the car fails? Why would Vettel want to test a broken car?

31

He deserved 3rd, but he was rightfully penalized.

All four wheels off the track, gained a distinct advantage from it. No questions about.

Also, this is nothing like the Vettel/Webber days. They actually have a respect for each other and can put up their hands when they make a mistake, and move on from it.

Danny Ric will leave Red Bull before it ever gets close to what Vet/Web was.

32

What don't you understand about cutting a corner and gaining a lasting advantage?

33

Reading French sports newspaper L'Equipe last weekend in France, Fernando Alonso scored a top marks rating for his full on performance in Texas - the editor still mightily impressed by the Spaniard's commitment and consistency despite his strained circumstances at McHonda, and his ability to stay motivated and focused when behind the wheel. Tsame sort of focus and determination will be needed at Le Mans, which is a physically and emotionally draining race even for fresh faced, fully fit youngsters, but if there's one driver who always tries his absolute hardest whatever he's driving, wherever he's driving - it's Fernando Alonso. It'll be tough up against the might of Porsche, who always seem to triumph at La Sarthe, but it's a better prospect than driving a Toyota! The bearded Spaniard will actually be glad to see a Japanese failure, for once..........

This year's Le Mans was an absolute sweatbox, with daytime air temperatures nudging an unbearable 35C, and track temps into the 50C range. In that unrelenting heat, even the fittest of human beings can tire and fatigue, and at Le Mans that usually means a conversation with Mr Armco barrier. And for turbo-hybrid cars the heatwave literally causes a melt down. Don't think the 24 Hours is an easy, anyone could win event - it's a real test of endurance of both man and machine that has all but vanished in other road racing/circuit racing.

34

Montoya said last week he's thinking of Le Mans more seriously

He could get the triple crown before Alonso

35

It would be great to see JPM around Le Mans. One step behind, in 2018 Hartley could be a Tripple Crown contender as well, seeing that Toro Rosso know how to win at Monaco and he was on the podium there before.

36

seeing that Toro Rosso know how to win at Monaco

I may have misunderstood your point (if I have I apologise) - but what do Toro Rosso know about winning at Monaco? They've only won one race and that was Italy 2008.

37

And I hope Montoya does.

38

That would just be Alonso’s luck!

39

lets hope so

40

To say Max was the only one who gained an advantage by ignoring track limits, is a little disingenuous.

One thing no one is mentioning is how much time Vettel gained on Lewis during the pitstops. The team looked back to figure it how Vettel had gained so much on Lewis and he did it by repeatedly ignoring track limits and found nearly 2 seconds in a couple of laps, and that was for the lead of the grandprix.

So max wasn't the only making the most of exceeding track limits, but was the only one punished.

41

This "Triple Crown" was barely even a thing until Alonso desperately dug it up. Nice that he wants to try different things, but imo may well only be setting himself up for more unfulfilled career destinations.

42

Alonso 'desperately' dug it up? More unfounded negatives.

43

Not true - Graham Hill did it in the days when F1 drivers were versatile and it's one of those things that fell out of fashion with professionalisation.

It's cool that Alonso has identified it. It also fits with Zak Brown ambitions for McLaren, which has won Le Mans and Indy in the past and he'd like to rekindle that

I still think Montoya will get there first though..

44
Clarks4WheelDrift

Would be interesting to see Montoya back, to see his racing style again. I imagine him finishing a Le Mans with bits hanging off a smoking car from all his incidents 😉

Paul di Resta had quote of the weekend on Montoya at Austin... something like...

"That's Montoya, catching up with old friends in the McLaren garage"
"Must be because Ron has gone."
😉

45

Yes , i liked that.

46

The thing about Montoya is that his track record shows he can win straight away in anything he drives - his adaptation period is very short

Le Mans is a race that chooses you, it's hard to go there and expect to win. Just ask Toyota..

47

That might be because JPM made better choices, sooner.

48

I think Alonso is counting his F1 championship, and not just Monaco.

But good luck to JPM, always fan.

49

Verstapen penalty was base in the rules, so if you see that point, looks correct.

But of course, stewards never apply rules as they are written down, they always use "criteria" by the moment, that's what is wrong and have always be wrong, because in this specific case the criteria should be Verstappen was racing Kimi, and if he wouldn't went out the limits they could be involve in an accident that might have them both out... So stewards should apply that criteria, not the one to favor Ferrari instead just because of course is Ferrari... that's what it looks like anyway....

So they either unify criteria for all drivers all cases, or stop using it and stick strictly to the written rules.

About Alonzo... lol.

50

If the reason Max went out the track was to avoid an accident, then he should give the position back to Kimi.

51

And Kimi should be penalized for blocking a car with most of the bodywork beside him?
Not sure if that;s the way you wanted for Kimi.

52

Wrong, Kimi had the racing line, that's why Verstappen cheated by cutting the corner. If you watched the Di Resta Skypad explanation during the quali session you'd see that the idea being promoted by some people that Raikonnen 'pushed' Vertstappen wide was nothing but 'smoke'.

53

Verstappen has done well with extending his contract at Red Bull. I currently don't see him at either Mercedes or Ferrrari, and he still has time on his side. What he will be able to achieve at Red Bull will depend a lot on the whole engine situation. Will Renault deliver the needed performance (and perhaps quali mode) from next season on? And if so will they continue to supply them as they become closer competitors on track?

If Ricciardo moves elsewhere it's gonna be Ferrari. They won't be taken serious anymore if they continue with Kimi past 2018, and I believe Mercedes already have a good replacement for Bottas in Ocon. He fits the Ferrari age(/experience) profile, generally gets along with about anybody and his Italian heritage might be a nice secondary "feature" for an Italian team.

54

@ jordanab Ocon is a French national and his parents are Spanish. He has no Italian heritage that i am aware of.

55

It's not easy to see but I believe jordanb was referring to Ricci - the sentence in the middle sort of confuses things.

56

Don't necessarily agree with the assertion on Ricciardo . I think Ferrari may gamble on Leclerc-Ricciardo can only go to Ferrari if he accepts the same terms as Kimi in my opinion which he won't Think he has more of a relationship with Mercedes which is why he will go there if he move there . His relationship with with Lewis is better than his one with Seb. The Italian heritage stuff is nonsense.

57

I think it’s greatZak is allowing Alonso to race in other disciplines. However it’s not without risk. Just look at Kubica

58

Is Zak paying Alonso 10m to drive for the team at Daytona?

He should get another driver and spend that money on the engine!

59

Honda proved that money is not the reason for producing a bad engine. When the F1 turbo era history is written, Honda will be known for spending a lot money that produced the worst engine on the grid.

And $10m for Alonso (if it is just $10m) is not much. He already had a huge in Indy rating last year, $10m would be peanut for Daytona. But I do understand where you are coming from. McLaren is in deep trouble right now. Until they can produce the results in F1, they deserve every criticism go their way.

60

The Vettel- Charlie Whiting Incident “With the radio around you it’s pretty dangerous. So, I think maybe you shouldn’t broadcast it. That’s another solution,” Verstappen suggested. “We are driving on the limit, in some good fights and then, you know the adrenaline is going really high. So maybe in the future, if it’s bad for the younger generation, just don’t broadcast it.”

The kid is consistent in his views, though i am surprised precious little was made of this incident. I remember even James had mentioned the heat-of-the-moment versus Post-race comments, [...breaching Article 12.1.1.f of the FIA’s International Sporting Code that warns of sanctions if drivers commit “any words, deeds or writings that have caused moral injury or loss to the FIA, its bodies, its members or its executive officers”. Had Vettel made such an outburst in a TV interview he’d certainly have a case to answer for, but speaking his mind at 200mph off the back of frustrating race and season and all the emotion that came with it was great TV and should not be discouraged. {Ref: https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/11/opinion-sebastian-vettels-swearing-may-be-pardoned-but-f1s-radio-moaning-has-got-to-stop/ }], the last time Vettel had used F*** off.

Calling a Steward an 'Idiot' in a post-race interview should have invited some sanction, no matter how aggrieved both Verstappen and Red Bull, felt themselves to be.

The FIA's inconsistency in enforcing rules is the the only consistent thing about F1.

61

Max should be fined for putting the sport into disrepute. Especially for that stunt telling F1 fans not to come next year.

Also, 10 hours of promotional work in US for F1.

62

Max already did the promotional work in the US by starting at the back and fighting his way to the front. They love a good comeback story there - just look at the Rocky movies, or Days of Thunder for example. Max did just that, and then he was (rightly so) punished by a rule they don't understand. They really ruined it for themselves.

And I think Max's talent, attitude and driving have brought more new fans to F1 than any of the other (current) drivers. Well, apart from Alonso maybe.

63

That's what upsets me the most. Telling people not to come next year is disgusting. The venue shouldn't suffer for his decisions.

64

Suspended more likely. Fines mean so little when you have lots of money. You would think he would just apologise!

65

"Also, 10 hours of promotional work in US for F1"

Served as five two hour stints on a Sunday afternoon? 🙂

What's that Max? You have other places to be? That's unfortunate 🙂

66
Clarks4WheelDrift

That's a bit harsh 😉 How about a couple of hours cleaning and polishing Dan Ric's car, inside and out, infront of the media between P3 and Qually 😉

67

Nah Clarks - Not that I don't trust Max, but there'd be too much opportunity for "Max did something to Dan's car just before quali" arguments.

Now, a couple of hours cleaning and polishing Dan Ric's car, inside and out, in front of the media after Dan just beat him in the race?

That could work 🙂

68

Max will never feel easy again in the cool down room. He'll keep an eye on the door expecting the FIA to burst in and hustle him out.

"And you can put that drink back where you got it thank you very much...."

69

F1 needs this kid to be WDC. But he's going to be hard to reign in once they let him get on that top step.

70

F1 needs drivers like him to fight on track.. not after the race with rulebooks and clerks..

71

@ Eric...how true, you nailed it. F1 needs drivers like him to fight ON track....not OFF track.

72

Then he needs to not punch below the belt and wonder why he lost a point.

73

Am recalling that during at least one GP in the last two years, the FIA has made a point of respecting the 'track limits' but it may have been a while back. Also believe the decision from the Stewards indicated it was gaining an advantage for position was the deciding factor. Not taking sides, only sharing a recollection.

Would seem that some clarification might be available from CW during the Mexico press conference, but ya never know. More to come, perhaps ?

Best of luck to FA in chasing his dream scenario and effort to demonstrate a wider skill set within the top levels of automobile competition.

74

I see a lot more penalties coming Max's way if he doesn't tone down his comments. He may not agree with the officials but berating and calling them idiots will only get him in all the bad books.

The only thing I don't agree is the penalty point. what was that for? Its not dangerous driving and didn't put anyones safety at risk. He just cut a corner trying to pass!!

75

Attaboy Max!

76

Max is a great plus for F1, but arrogance and budding youth make for un-attractive bedfellows.

I wonder if his dad is setting the wrong role model for him. He seems to be egging him on always. Someone has got to bring Jos, Max, and Gary Connelly together over a convivial drink [milk for Maxy of course]

77

verstappen is a person with a personality, not just avracing driver. like him or not that is his personality. he will not change for you to like him...why can’t you just sit back and enjoy his contributions?

78

This father nonsense is getting annoying. Lewis his father is crashing porsches and acting like a douche and Jenson his father was the paddock drunk. What do we make of that?

79

Putting Jos together with Gary Connelly? I don't see that ending well

80

Agreed, Jordanab. Jos has the sort of temper that would make Floyd Mayweather walk away.

81

Yes, it is good to have well rounded, well experienced racing drivers, not just F1 drivers. I hope Fernando sets a trend for other to follow.

As regards the track limits debate, the current rules will always lead to controversy. Natural instinct means attacking drivers will do whatever they can to get past another car, even if this means going off the tarmac. Similarly, defending drivers will do whatever they can to force another car off the tarmac. To me "track limits" should be defined not by the black stuff, but by the outer wall or barrier. If drivers want/need to go over the kerbs and onto the grass, then fine. It increases the spectacle. I thought current talk was about improving "the show". So what if they run wide? Good luck to them if they can find an advantage in doing so. If we really don't want them to use the grass, then use a surface that will cause then to slow down. And/or line the tarmac with armco barriers.

82

@ David Cooper...are you seriously advocating the removal of the white lines and that drivers can take whatever line that they choose including straight lining chicanes?

83

He was critical of the Race Direction and stewards in Austin for not giving any guidance on the track limits throughout the weekend

Very quick and a potential champion but really? He does not know what the white lines are for on the edge of the track? He complained before about the raised edge on the outside of the track. Again the same thing, that is the track limit mate you stop there.
Verstappen needs to stop worrying about what the others are doing and just concentrate on his driving. He will be respected, He will likely become champion and he just might be mentioned with the true greats in the future..maybe.

84

of course he knows what track limits are. it’s not his fault the stewards decide to ignore track limits some of the time is it?

85

but really? He does not know what the white lines are for on the edge of the track?

It seemed that he was not the only one having trouble keeping the car within the lines. Like Hamilton on his pole lap, Vettel in the first corner, Bottas while defending from both Ricciardo and Verstappen, Sainz while positioning himself to overtake the Force Indias. All of them "gained advantage" from it.

There was even a TV commenter -forgot who it was- saying that there "seemed to be no track limits this weekend". And this was *before* the Verstappen overtake.

86

In that same press conference Perez agreed with Max. I'm sure he is better informed than most of us here.

87
Tornillo Amarillo

FIA Race Director Charlie Whiting is due to speak to the media on Thursday afternoon in Mexico.

Please renounce!

88
Tornillo Amarillo

FIA Race Director Charlie Whiting is due to speak to the media on Thursday afternoon in Mexico.

He would explain he is adding speed bumps named "Bumpstappen"...

89

And Vettel will be the first to crash on them 😉

90

Bumpstappens, for Max err! 🙂

91
Clarks4WheelDrift

...like that would stop Max taking shortcuts 😉

92
Tornillo Amarillo

Verstappen added he would like Daniel Ricciardo to remain with the team ideally. Sebastian Vettel also said in the FIA press conference in Mexico that he would not mind racing alongside Ricciardo in 2019.

...but they were thinking "...as a nr 2 driver only."

93

I have every sympathy for Verstappen, but you cannot go around calling the stewards idiots. It has been explained by Whiting that when it comes to track limits all the cars are monitored by software as to if they gained a lasting advantage when going over the white lines.
The stewards did not pick on Verstappen the computers did, he needs to apologise or be reprimanded.

94

So VER was the only one to go outside tracklimits? It was not a computer who did this, if it was a computer more drivers would be punished. But let a computer do it, with a standard penalty of 5s, fine by me, that would be consistent.

95

Max needs to forget what happened at Austin and concentrate on his next race. This is the difference between old hands like Lewis and Fernando who just look forward, and a youngster who has yet to develop the ability to put disappointments behind him and just concentrate on preparing for what's ahead. He'll learn.

96

It's the media and Forums like these that keep on going. VER is already in attack mode for mexico ( as you could see by now;)

97

In all fairness, it's pretty hard to leave it behind you when the journalists keep asking these questions.

98

Max had all the rights to be disappointed. He kind of admitted that he was out of line with some of the comments. So it’s time to move on. As far the penalty was concerned, there’s no question about the penalty. The issue is that the stewards should’ve penalized everyone that exceeded the track limit without any reasons. I’d suggest to bring back gravel traps. That the drivers won’t abuse the track limit as much. Last thing about Max, I hope he is careful with his attitude. We have seen what happens to a great driver with terrible attitude (Alonso) in the past. At least Alonso won 2 WDCs. Max is yet to win any. Behavior and attitude counts.

Alonso, well he might be accepting the fact that he will never have a championship winning car again in F1, certainly not with McLaren (unless he races until he is 50). So, the next best thing for him to participate in other categories. Shame that F1 can’t give top drivers opportunities to fight for the win like Motogp can. We see in motogp top 8 drivers are at the front of the grid every weekend. I hope Liberty and FIA can replicate some of that in F1 in near future.

99

I think at one point he (Kimi) realised that I was trying to overtake him, so he tried to close the door, so you have avoid it. 

Where was this careful Max in Singapore, avoiding contact and not driving directly into Kimi, steering twice toward him to draw contact?

Oh Max only "avoids" contact when he gains positions not when he's about to lose it? Got it.

100

that careful verstappen was in your head..

101

Sebee, your version of the events in Singapore are seriously inaccurate. You tealised we all watched the replays right? Max did not drive into Kimi once, let alone twice!

102

The question is not "where was careful Max", the question is "where was sensible Seb". I'm pretty sure he was the one throwing away his chance on a fourth title, not Max. The moment Ferrari realised their next championship is still a couple of years away.

103

Stop talking about Singapore . Only you and a few Australians on here think that was Max's fault.

104

Funny how you can drive into a guy, put your wheel in front of his with 1m of space to Seb with clarify goal to draw contact, having gone there way earlier all along with clear purpose, and people look at you and say...look at that boy...he's an angel! Innocent.

105

Come on not again. You totally screwed the truth on Singapore and some misinformed readers are thinking this fake fact of you is a reality. Not good, stop with it!

106

You really should watch all angles video a few times again. Make sure to play it slo-mo with Max's onboard part. Note how he steers twice toward Kimi right after Kimi's front wheel passes his. Ask yourself what was he thinking? Does every action fit a motive of stopping Kimi passing? Did he position his hook on Kimi, then fine tune second time ahead of Kimi's rear tire rolling over with goal of lifting his rear and braking Kimi's suspension? Maybe it almost worked.

And by the way Max is driving left toward Kimi the whole time before those 2 left inputs, as of the start pretty much once he sees the stellar start Kimi got.

Just ask yourself, is it plausible? Do all his actions fit into a contact drawing on purpose scenario? Therefore, you can't dismiss it in the very least. I do admit that other scenario is also plausible, but I don't buy it now.

What makes me dismiss it? How early Max goes to shut the door on Kimi. He knew he couldn't win P1 off Vettel, but he knew he could stop losing P2 to Kimi. And that's what his goal was and his actions tried to do. Stop Kimi taking "his" P2.

107

Is this a serious or joke comment? There is no way those 2 situations can be drawn in parallel.

108

Both include Max and Kimi.

One he's about to lose a spot and puts his wheel in Kimi's rear wheel path to stop him deliberately and precisely with contact.

One he gains position going off track and claims it was all in the name of being careful and avoiding contact.

Where was this care in avoiding contact as he drove into Kimi in Singapore?

There was no way he was going to gain a position in any way with any move at that point....well, except stopping Kimi from passing him with the move he made, to draw contact.

109

He did not drove into Kimi in Singapore. You are creating a fake reality.

110

He actually did in fact.

111

Spot on!

112

I think what Max means is he would love Dan to be the teams number 2 driver. No way Dan accepts that. Seb may want another chance to beat Dan, but I doubt it. I don't think anyone wants to against Ricciardo on equal terms because he is such a consistent well rounded driver with no real weaknesses: Not sure you can beat that combination.

113

Unless you're daniil kvyat

114

... because he is such a consistent well rounded driver with no real weaknesses ...

Did you just describe Lewis Hamilton? Daniel's weakness when compared to both Lewis and Seb is his speed, especially in qualifying. He's not the quickest of the bunch. The other points you mentioned are valid.

Both Lewis and Seb were asked yesterday about their opinion on having Daniel as a team mate and both genuinely don't seem to mind. They most certainly see hem as a very strong competitor, but his positive personality of course makes him very likeable.

115
Clarks4WheelDrift

This could work well for Dan Ric. A bit of an impression that he is a "number 2" driver might mean he can get a fast car alongside Lewis or Seb. Then he'd destroy them on track in his usual fashion as the best overtaker in the game.

116

Except that Max has been beating him fairly all year around..
and this from a Dan fan.

117

That whole penalty thing was bad as we didn't even have a clear view of exactly where he was at but hey everyone went off. No big deal that some gravel and grass wouldn't solve or not. If KR had pushed a little further over then what?
I really don't like those death threats tho.

I was a referee of sorts once and so many people were mad at me I never tried that again.

As for Alonso going everywhere to race that may be much harder in this day and time but I hope he does. BTW Newgarden has enough points for a super license I think and I believe he is fast but may be large for an F1 driver but they shouldn't be jockeys anyhow.

118
Torchwood Mobile

@jdr

For the time that you were a referee, thank you for your service to whichever sport that was.

I've been a referee, and other officials, and some decisions were built up from what criteria were met, and some were slam dunks.

While we can be as caught up in the spectacle as the spectators, we will, hopefully, be conscious that one competitor is not unfairly disadvantaged.

If someone passed Max of the track, and did not return the position, that should have been looked at; but that doesn't mean that Kimi should lose his podium, three points, the dollar value to his team, through an illegal move.

Elsewhere, I am amazed that Vettel got away with swearing at Charlie Whiting.

119

Stewards/Referees are part of every sport, they make a call based on what they see. Fan forums will complain in every direction no matter the call. The stewards have the data, fans make their opinions in the absence of data, and generally will not accept outcomes they don't like in a partisan manner.

120

Verstappen and his fans are apparently dangerous.
Mika Salo is getting death threats on account of this penalty.
Verstappen refuses to apologise after opening insulting the race steward whereas Vettel was threatened with repercussions for his rant against Charlie last year.

FIA better introduce Halo soon in F1. If the likes of Verstappen persist in this sport, other drivers might need it for their protection.

121

That's the main purpose of "The Thong", to protect the driver's butts from each other's actions.

By the way, the word is that Halo is not cool sounding not gladiatorial enough. They want to rebrand it and call it something else. Any suggestions?

The pram ram?
The rage cage?

122

Those fans are the real idiots, but you can not blame them, 2 years ago they never heard of F1 and only watched soccer, so they don't know how to behave. It is a dutch disease for wich i am happy not to have and I can not apologize for, but ashamed for it i am.

123

Ps Vettel should have at least got a 1 race ban for his rant and a 1 race ban for his road rage on the Mercedes car.

124

So is Ocon so would you say the fans of Perez are dangerous too ?
Really silly to give any trawling dimwit a platform to reinforce their sad over exhibition of vile threats.
Mike Salo et al messed up. They should've penalised everyone going over the lines throughout the race. Instead they decided to stand on their soap boxes on the final lap of an exciting race.
These threats are just sad and people should calm down. Yes agree and disagree but also do not resort to violence. Feel sorry for Ocon as he is a future champion as is Norris and Max.
Can you imagine if the Senna Prost battle was happening in this era. The threats would be unimaginable. Whole of Brasil would be waging war against France 😄

125

I agree that the death threats on Mika Salo are totally unacceptable, but this sadly happens everywhere in sport today. I believe even Ocon received several death threats as of yesterday, and there wasn't any instigation on his part whatsoever. With all the openness and exposure through social media, this is an extremely hard thing to tackle.

126

too bad Max is not ready to apologize after calling steward an idiot. Mr cool is losing his cool attitude slowly.

127

Charlie Whiting has set out the procedure taken by the stewards and is 100% behind the decisions taken as expected. Verstappen has now made a 'qualified' apology but his claims that his comments directed towards one steward was incorrect!!! That is a joke. Both he and Horner had one steward in mind and that was very very very clear. Remember the exact words spoken, they were in the singular form and not plural. He also claims that 'other drivers were cutting the corner' so if so where is the evidence? The 'corner' we have been discussing is the only one which is relevant. If there is footage showing other drivers cutting/straight lining that same corner in pursuit of a pass on another car then i would love to see it. I just haven't been able to. Therefore until i see the evidence i will support the stewards interpretation. This entire incident seems to have spawned some ugly repercussions with serious death threats, in the Verstappen case eminating from some of his Dutch fans. That is, i would think, a watershed in vindictiveness fanned by Verstappens outburst. We now have reported instances of the same thing occurring in the Ocon/Perez tussle as well. This is a new low and something that needs to be stamped out....if at all possible. When a driver has to resort to armed guards for his safety is exceptional. As for Alonso, i will say one thing, go and enjoy your racing in other series as well as F1. He is a driver's driver and without fear when it come to tackling new challenges. Well done Fernando.

128

The 'corner' we have been discussing is the only one which is relevant

Let me start by saying I'm pretty much in agreement with your entire post here kenneth (shock) - what Max did was clearly a breach of the rules and his 3rd place was quite rightly taken away. The only part I would take issue with (and why I have some sympathy with Max and Horners position) is that there must have been 200+ instances of other drivers exceeding track limits in order to gain an advantage during that race. The most obvious was turn 19(?) where they all went off track on almost every lap as it allowed them to retain greater momentum and therefore speed onto the straight. What is the difference between gaining an advantage there or where Max did ? Personally I think they should enforce the track limits everywhere - not just where the FIA/Charlie think it matters. In sport the pitch is defined clearly and motor racing is no different imo - you simply cannot have players unilaterally deciding to move the goal posts as carnage would ensue.
One interesting thing though is that both Webber and Coulthard were very vocal in their criticism of the stewards in this instance. Webber said it was $h1t decision live on air.I don't understand where they are coming from to be honest - what do you make of it? I'm puzzled as I always tend to think of those two as being pretty smart and worth listening too.

129

@ C63....Thanks for your agreeable comment. I have no opinion relative to turn 19 as it is not germane to this debate. The reason for that approach is that Charlie Whiting has stated that they look at individual incidents and make decisions based on the visual and computer based data that pertains to same. That approach is vital as no two incidents are identical. That is for a broader discussion. As to your remarks vis a vis Webber and Coulthard, i never heard/saw them and I have no idea in what context they were made. I take your word for what they said and like you i would have no idea why they would take that approach.

130

it is not germane to this debate

With respect I disagree - it's because they ignore so many off track manoeuvres that this debate exists at all. If track limits were strictly enforced everywhere then no one would be arguing that Max's overtake was acceptable in the first place.

131

Wondering what your thoughts are about Dan cutting the corner earlier in the race to aid him catching (I think) Bottas? Inside of the corner cut. Clear advantage.

I can probably guess...

132

@ Exigency.....Did you read my post? Did you understand my post? My guess is that both those questions would be answered in the negative. If you saw DR cutting the exact same corner ,16/17/18, with all four wheels off the track and undercutting another car for a lasting advantage then fine..point me to a replay otherwise your point is without merit, as usual when addressed to me.

133
Clarks4WheelDrift

Agree, perhaps Max believes you can cut a corner round the outside.

or is it really round the outside...

Let me introduce the Verstappen Theory:

Say turn 1 is a left then turn 2 is a right then turn 3 is a left.

By going off track on the outside of turn 2, technically you are taking an inside shortcut between turns 1 and 3...

Hence everyone did it, hence innocence proven.
😉

134

@ james....are there problems with the site? I have been trying to post but repeatedly cannot get acceptance!!! This has been getting worse lately and it's frustrating to compose a comment only to see it vanish...to nowhere.

135

It has happened to me a few times, and seems browser specific. Just keep a copy of the comment, and if it fails go back and post again (Ctrl+C,Ctrl+V). The post typically gets accepted the second time.

136

Sorry we will look into that

You are the first to mention it

137

Kenneth is right. It is also very slow. It took about 14 hours before my last post showed up.

138

James
It is odd, but this does happen from time to time.
-Is it because there is huge traffic of posts at a specific article?
This might throw an individual out of the website?
-Also it seems to take ages nowadays for comments to show. Before it was quite rapid.
-Is this due the website going through/overseen by Motorsport TV ?
The Max story had zero posts
from 5.45pm... then this morning 36 appeared (uk time).

139

Strange, we haven't changed anything. It's a decomments thing, on the whole they've been more reliable than other platforms we have used in the past.

Moderation - No it has nothing to do with Motorsport. It's a time of day thing and some times of day are less frequently moderated than others

140

Understood
Cheers James, for the explanation and for a fantastic F1 platform 👍

141

Thanks james.

142

Sock it to them Max! Rules are rules, but it should have it been the same for everyone and that clearly wasn't the case, so no apologies there!

143

Good job Max - he's right, the fact there's a debate about it means something's not right. His choice of words was perhaps not very clever but we've seen worse (check replays from last year's Mexican GP :)). The way some fans reacted however was VERY wrong. OK, give someone a keyboard and the anonimity of the internet and they will vent and rage, but death threats @ Mika Salo's address, really F1 fans, is that what "we" have become? I distance myself far from that.

@Alonso: awesome, gives us something to watch in January (assuming we can find a stream somewhere. I wish him all the best and I think it's a great thing to do!

144

The Daytona 24 has been going on for a while now in January. Alonso being in it this year will be the only reason you now have some racing to watch in January? Shame. You missed Jeff Gordon winning last year, Pippo's magical drive the year before. Just giving you a hard time 😛

IMSA and Radio Le Mans always steam all the events on YouTube (unless you live in the US I think). NISMO TV might do a stream as well.

If you're in the US, I believe the coverage is usually on FS1.

145

@ Jeroen...the reason that there's so much ill defined debate can be sheeted home to Verstappen and Horner. Are you saying that Verstappen wasn't aware that he'd cut the corner ? Are you saying that Horner didn't know that Verstappen had cut the corner? If you believe that then you'd believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. They have single handedly inflamed the situation. IMO, the comments made by both these people post race were aimed at influencing the attention of the stewards or if not then at the very least deflecting the real issue concerning that particular corner and as a result the fans have gone berserk...that is a strong comment but this is no storm in a teacup. Death threats have been issued to Mika Salo when all along Red Bull and Verstappen have aimed their comments at Donnelly despite them not having the spine to say who it was by name. Even Ocon has received death threats and he wasn't in any way involved. How serious is it when Ocon/FI have to supply bodyguards for one of their drivers. It is a lamentable situation and the sooner it is addressed by all concerned and a resolution taken it will cloud future racing. This seems to me to be a step too far.

146

@kenneth no I'm not saying that and I respectfully disagree that Max and Horner 'caused' the debate. I listened to a podcast featuring karun chandhok and he went to mika salo post fp3 when Lewis set the fastest sector 3 time whilst going wide at 19. He asked what the stewards would do if this happened in quali and the answer was 'we turn a blind eye'. So there are lines but sometimes you can cross them and sometimes you can't. That's the issue. I also heard kimi admitted that Ferrari in their briefings spend time on discussing where you can and where you can't cross the white lines.

I play f1 2017 on the PS4. When in quali and you cross the line your time doesn't count. In the race you get 2 warnings, third time is a 3 second penalty. Very frustrating but at least it's clear and consistent!

Lastly, ocon received threats from Mexican perez fans as I understood it. Nothing to do with this particular issue (although just as despicable!)

147

Agreed - Right or wrong Mika doesn't deserve that crap.

148

Max deserved a penalty but the track limits rule needs applying consistently. Drivers only leave the track if they are pushed or to gain an advantage. The rule needs changing so that if a driver leaves the track he must be seen to have lost time or position, if not then a penalty should be applied.

149

Track limits and "gaining a lasting advantage" is like the being offside but "not interfering with play" football rule. Its all a bit smoke and mirrors and down to human judgement in the end and as such you will at times get inconsistencies and differing views. We have all seen the replays over and over again and yet people still can't agree if the penalty was correct or not. Like it or not the stewards made the decision which can't be appealed so that should be the end of it as far as I am concerned.

150

Success and media hype got to his head quite a bit.

151

Dem the rules Max boy. Somewhat unfortunately. Keep at it tho, we love to see you push forward - a real driver.

Jeez people talking about Ric, Ferrari - why? The real villian is our day and age. Boring ass tarmac run off and a bogus white line for a track limit. Too bad that wheel was put in motion years ago, and spent truckloads of money on it. Seems the focus is always on problems with the cars and how this affects the racing.....Grass, gravel and street circuit barriers really test the drivers and are superior as the track limit. Have your tarmac AFTER a grass edge to help with grip and slowing down a car that has left the circuit. Its annoyingly simple.

152

lasting advantage is gaining time / go faster (which makes one either: move in front of another, go further in front of another, stay in front of another while otherwise being overtaken, get closer to another who is driving in front of you, better position yourself for an overtake).

Verstappen had a lasting advantage, no doubt about it. But so had others and Charlie (having to protect the FIA/Stewards of the Race) knows it. It should be very simple: if you leave the track on purpose and there is no disadvantage, then a 5 second time penalty should be applied (in race and qualification). If there is a disadvantage, you can see it by either the trackposition and the sectortime and you have punished yourself enough.

The argument that some other drivers didn't cut the corner but took a longer distance when they were outside of the track limits and therefor didn't gain an advantage, doesn't hold: if Bottas would go outside of tracklimits and therefor extended the track by 275 meters, but could carry an extra speed of +12,5km an hour on average (later breaking, higher cornering speed, faster on the throttle) and he would do that every lap of the race, he would have won the race with Lewis about 39 seconds behind him...

153

@ McBosch...so, in effect what you are saying is that either Whiting is lying orr that he hasn't any idea about what he's been doing for a very very long time as as an F1 professional administrator...or both? To top that off you are proposing that you are a better judge of events without the benefit of seriously sophisticated technology upon which to base and verify decisions taken during an F1 race? Really...are you serious or just taking the 'urine'?

154

but took a longer distance when they were outside of the track limits and therefor didn't gain an advantage, doesn't hold

I agree - the drivers wouldn't keep doing it (turn 19) lap after lap if it didn't bring them an advantage. The simplest way to deal with this, and defuse the entire argument, would be to enforce track limits everywhere. For some reason the FIA don't appear to be up for that - not sure why.

155

@ C63....Horner has been mouthing off about an agreement in principal which he claims was made towards the end of last season that the stewards would not be interfering too much so as to allow harder racing. If the stewards didn't bother to penalise a driver each time he left the track then in fact that's what they did...they let them race. All that aside the assurances would not have allowed for leniency in the case of shortcutting corners and gaining a lasting advantage to the detriment of another driver. To do that would encourage chaos on a grand scale. I really don't find it all that hard to understand.

156

@ C63....Perhaps the FIA should consider this. The latest F1 cars are 2 metres wide. If a second set of say yellow lines were marked 1.8 metres from the white line and included beyond that there were high ripple strips that would damage a cars undertray then there would be no 'cheating'. To drive with all four wheels off the track could then be precisely monitored and it would be obvious to all concerned given the amount of wreckage. Monaco et al have natural built up impediments and this would be a halfway house to achieve the same result.

157

In principal I would support anything which discouraged drivers from exceeding the track limits in order to gain an advantage. Apparently they come down hard on drivers in other formulas (according to MB) and it works just fine. I'm not a big fan of committees (stewards) trying to decide when, or if, an advantage was gained. Simple black and white , in or out rules suit me better. All sporting contests have clearly defined boundaries which is where the game is played - the pitch if you will - not sure why F1 sees things any differently.

158

There are arguments to be made about appropriateness of the Verstappen penalty, and they should be made.

But Verstappen and his father (as manager) swearing both at the referee and calling him an idiot (and worse in Dutch apparently) is not acceptable and deserves a significant penalty as it does in any other well developed sport.

Imagine him doing this as a footballer, rugby player, tennis player .........

Or does talent trump proper sporting behaviour?

159

100% of those drivers who exceeded the track limits and gained a place were punished in Austin, and in every other race so far this year. If thats not consistant i don't know what is.

He knows this, and he's just spouting hot air. He needs to stop being the petulant child, he has gotten himself a reputation this season that will follow him for the rest of his career if he's not careful.

160

Neither the FIA, FOM, LIberty Media and any media outlet regrets the Austin row.
A lot of people do regret the decision, though.

161

So the penalty only applies when "gaining an advantage" means passing another car..in that case I understand what Max means when saying he should have cut that corner on every lap. Each passing lap perhaps saves about 0.1s, which adds up nicely after a while, and for free. So yes, I agree the stewards are inconsistent.
Anyhow, he should indeed be more apologizing towards the Stewards. His foul language is not good for the sport and sets a bad example for other youngsters. Nevertheless, I admire his passion and tenacity on track. He really sets F1 alight.

162

I like Zak Brown, I like his attitude, letting Alonso go racing will hopefully start a trend. I would be far more likely to watch other forms of racing if I knew the drivers, I watched Indy last year! Can’t see the big corporations letting it happen, I.e. Mercedes, Ferrari might if it was for a works entry.

163

Issue handled badly by max and his advisors but he is young and surrounded by yes men.
Due to older drivers disrespectful outbursts that have gone unpunished its understandable he has developed an attitude.
I dont know what the fear or correcting his behaviour is. Whats he going to do? run away and mess about on a skateboard instead of driving in F1?

164

Max should a) apologise b) be told by his team to apologise c) grow the **** up.

He's acting like a petulant child. He's damaging his reputation by not apologising. The FIA should have taken more action against him for his 'comments' made. Any other sport he would have been in serious trouble.

165

It has long been a bearbug of mine that modern F1 circuits do not punish you for exceeding the limits of the track. I say we bring back real curbs rather than just painting the tarmac a different colour. There's nothing wrong at all with curbs that risk car damage if you run over them too much - there absolutely should be real performance consequences to running off the track.

166

@ Vano....very well articulated. I fully agree with you.

167

The content of the comments aside, I appreciate the fact we have a driver who is prepared to speak out and not accept what pretty much everyone else in the sport takes for granted - that a much quicker car can be so easily kept behind a slower one.

As a spectator I find it frustrating that the nature of tracks and aerodynamics are such that cars can't be followed closely and it's fairly easy to defend a place. I'm sure a young chap like Max is similarly frustrated about having any attempts to 'do things differently' end up with criticism for breaking unwritten rules rather than praise for making races actually worth watching for a change.

My only fear is that he will get cowed in to not speaking out any more and become ingrained in to the ways of sitting behind a car for lap after lap hoping they make a mistake rather than creatively trying to force an overtake.

168
Torchwood Mobile

I dislike the way that some of the F1 media are framing the incident:

"The stewards deemed Max to have gone off the track" - Guano, he went off the track with all four wheels!

"Max had his podium taken from him." - Guano, it wasn't his God-given podium.

If you were allowed to take that line cutting the chicane (or whatever that peninsula of paint is called), I expect Kimi would have taken it.

If the driver defends against legal moves, you can't pass them illegally, then throw your dollies out of the pram when the majority of a steward panel calls you on it.

169

@ Torchwood M Agreed 100% What i find most disagreeable is the mantra that Verstappen lost something. He didn't. He attempted to take something that wasn't rightfully his, but belonged to another driver who had also driven a very good race.

170

If Red Bull can get the odd win with a Renault engine, why can't Alonso do the same next year? 2012 shows what miracles Alonso can deliver (I saw the replay of Brazil 2012 the other day, how did Vettel survive that opening lap... I think he used up all his luck early in his career!). P.S. What a year Verstappen has had to man him up, good preparation for a title challenge hopefully next season or two.

171

On an unrelated but important issue, once again,we are seeing the duplicity of Red Bull and Horner in their treatment of Ricciardo. They just conveniently forgot to tell Ricciardo that Verstappen's new engine had an upgrade!!! WOW what a revelation. Horner is now trying to play the issue down but actions speak louder then words. I have lost all faith in Red Bull as a team now although as i've said repeatedly, after Turkey with Mark Webber/Vettel Horner has proved to be a very weak person and Multi 21 was total confirmation of that. All i can say is that despite DR saying that all is well etc etc etc deep down he must know what the status quo is and with any luck he will be out of there in the not too distant future. Red Bull do not want Daniel to pull the plug on them as they don't want to see him driving for the competition, but they are prepared to 'stiff' him, when the opportunity arises.

172

Hahaha, it's always nice to come here to read a new and fresh batch of unfunded and blind Max h**e! Also, when I have some difficult moral decisions to make in my life, I'll be sure to check in here because everyone here knows exactly what is right and wrong, they even have all the applicable laws and passages at hand when needed! It's amazing! I'm so curious what it feels like to never swear, to always be morally just and to never get a parking ticket (or drive over the sidewalk =D)!

But seriously...you all need to get of your high horses! All holier than the pope on Sundays...very unlikely! Max feels wronged and according to a VERY high volume of people, he has every reason to feel like that. He may be right or wrong, doesnt really matter, he has every right to still feel that way and he apologized (twice) for the wording he used in the interview! Done! Also...idiot...you all really question someone's maturity because he used the word idiot a few times? Come on now...get real!

173

'All smoke and mirrors' .

174

Amen. Fully agree. The responses here make me wonder if F1 fans are perhaps all Amish or Quakers. Why do you think there are so many bleeps on team radio.

175

Track limits... drives me absolutely NUTS. If the stewards can't enforce their own rules properly then there needs to be another solution. It's the acres of tarmac run off that causes the problems.

Put two feet of grass either side of the circuit the whole way around and boom, no problem. Nothing to enforce. Immediate penalty for transgressions. Proper racing without steward intervention. Works for me. Can't see why this isn't already the case.

Unless of course the FIA like being able to apply their rules as an when it suits them / Ferrari.

As most people have said, the penalty was correct for Max, the problem is that it should have happened to others.

Alonso, that's GREAT news. Really looking forward to watching that. And it's a very good move by McLaren to have him mentoring Lando.

176

Put two feet of grass either side of the circuit the whole way around

Plus 1 - good post. I don't understand the reluctance of the authorities to deal with this issue. It is literally a black and white issue - the car is either in or out of bounds.

177

Media and pundits are very “understanding” about Max’s inappropriate comments. Yes, they write about it & report it. Compare that with strong opinions & reactions by “objective” pundits about LH not attending London event, for example, or LH’s snapchat episode, it is interesting to observe how subdued the reactions has been. Calling a steward an idiot, claiming erroneously that fans liked what he did (as though that justifies everything as long fans like it), wishing no one comes next year to his own sport’s event - all of these signal Max is rather simple - no? Lack of education? I guess Max is emboldened because oh he is mega talented and interesting to watch. Without Max, F1 is dead? Under such contexts, the steward and C. Whitting’s team have done a great job of at least attempting to preserve dignity of the sport - and not succumb to sycophantic tendencies.

178

A very good post Mia. I agree with you. I uphold freedom of speech by the individual but insults and vicious derogatory comments should be dealt with swiftly and effectively. At least the stewards took the dignified approach and didn't respond with anything but the facts. Calling someone a 'mongol' is below the belt at any time but especially in such a high profile encounter. If you do so then be prepared to suffer the consequences.

179

We are back to the old discussions about how to stop drivers going 'over the line' on corners. Some are suggesting a returning to grass - but I have also read some good cars have no problem with grass. I have a suggestion/question - how about a 'tray of water', maybe 5cm/2" deep. It would provide quite a resistance to a fast-moving car (reducing speed & advantage) and, I'd assume, not cause serious damage to any car. (The tray would have to be constantly 'refilled' to stop drivers trying to create a 'dry line' through it during practice/races!)

180

Fascinating interview with Bernie E today in the Italian newspaper Repubblica where he openly admits to helping Ferrari win races. Says Mercedes gained their dominance in part because Ross Brawn was involved in the creation of the 2014 engine rules while still a Ferrari man, then took the knowledge to Mercedes. Thinks Mercedes has probably helped out Ferrari so as to have a worthy rival to beat. And he sides with Verstappen on the Kimi question...

181

Jan?? F1 season hasn't started yet. And this '37 old man' choose to race. What a commitment. What a passion. What a Alonso!

182

Hi guys, long time reader, first time poster so be kind.

My initial thoughts were that Max left the track so case closed. However, after seeing different angles it is clear that he swerved to avoid Kimi. He had half a car alongside Kimi so had every right to be there. Kimi is a wily old fox so probably knew exactly what he was doing. Just a warning shot to force Max off track.

If that was somewhere like Monaco it would have caused a huge accident and Kimi would be considered a dangerous maniac. So on a track with plenty of run off, shouldn't we consider it in a similar way? Or do we put it down to clever defence by Kimi?

For me the correct outcome should have been to give Max the podium. But long term the FIA really need to look at banking kerbs on tracks like this. That way there is a genuine deterrent to leaving the track. I'm sure they can do it in a way that it doesn't become a'ramp' or hazard during crashes.

183

Thanks for your comment

184

I can't agree that "gaining a lasting advantage" should be measured purely judged by sector times. What if you make a complete balls up of one corner losing time and then leave the track cutting the very next corner in the same sector. Your overall sector time may then be slower but in fact you have actually gained an advantage by not losing as much overall time in cutting the corner. If drivers were penalised every time they left the track limits they wouldn't do it "deliberately". Nightmare to police though with claims of " I was forced off".

185

@no regrets

Referee is probably the wrong word. Judge would be a better word. It was a vocational CAD contest and nothing was clear cut back then as different schools used different software. What really turned me against it was the teachers tried and did sway certain judges. Another big problem was no one solved the test and out of the two that came close both were using different systems one of which is no longer being made. When I got done checking all the boxes off their scores were equal. Remember even Auto CAD was new at this point. They weren't allowed to use teachers. So they rounded up three of us that had experience. This was the mid 80s.

I dunno why they bothered to do that back then. I guess if I were asked again I would do it IF I had access to the computer files.

If it's clear cut it's easy. This was definitely not. It would be like figuring out the winner of the race when no one finished.

But yeah it has to be a hard job. 1 single point decided the winner but IMO we should have had a run off between the two that were close with the same equipment.

Back then if you knew just how to turn on a computer you would have instant job offers.

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