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Hamilton has title lead in crosshairs with dominant British F1 GP Mercedes 1-2 win
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Posted By: Editor   |  16 Jul 2017   |  2:51 pm GMT  |  435 comments

Lewis Hamilton won the British Grand Prix from pole as Sebastian Vettel’s late tyre blowout cost him fourth place and put his drivers’ championship lead under threat from the Briton.

The Mercedes driver took victory at Silverstone for the fourth season running in a record-equalling fifth British GP win (now tied with Alain Prost) to put himself one point behind Vettel in the drivers’ standings, while team-mate Valtteri Bottas recovered from ninth to second place.

The Ferrari pair suffered an astonishing couple of tyre punctures in the final two laps, costing Vettel a fourth-place finish and a distraught Kimi Raikkonen second. Raikkonen’s front-left tyre burst with two laps remaining, forcing him to pit for super-softs and settle for third. Vettel’s tyre-failure took place less than a minute later and he was pushed down from fourth to seventh.

Hamilton led half the race on super-softs, to finish the remaining laps on the soft tyre ahead of Bottas, whose recovery drive was boosted by a start on the soft compound as he charged up the order from ninth. The five-place grid-penalty did little to affect the Finn and ending the race on super-softs puts him 23 points behind Vettel in the standings.

The formation lap was repeated as Jolyon Palmer’s Renault stopped on the first attempt to line up on the grid with a hydraulics issue. Once the race started, Hamilton pulled away though Raikkonen unsuccessfully tried to pull ahead through Turn 2.

Red Bull’s Max Verstappen pipped Vettel at the start but the Safety Car was pulled out on lap three as Daniil Kvyat cut off his team-mate Carlos Sainz Jr through Maggots and Becketts, retiring Sainz from the race. Kvyat’s drive-through penalty put him down in 15t.

Hamilton timed his restart to perfection and Raikkonen kept tabs on his rear wing, while Verstappen and Vettel duelled behind, slowing down the championship leader to Bottas’ advantage.

Within 10 laps, Bottas had overtaken the Force India pair in front and Nico Hulkenberg to charge up to fifth place as his soft tyres had the pace to challenge those in front.

The fireworks were lit between the Red Bull and the Ferrari and so Verstappen had to fend off haymakers from Vettel, the two running wide through Stowe on lap 15.

Ferrari responded by pitting Vettel for softs to give him some clean air, the undercut causing Verstappen to pit a lap later (lap 20); a slow stop for Verstappen and a fast out-lap for the German put Vettel in front. Ferrari’s first strategic gamble had seemingly paid off

Raikkonen pitted on lap 25 of 51, emerging ahead of Vettel, then Hamilton responded for a new set of soft tyres for a perfectly timed pit-stop a lap later, keeping him away from the backmarkers in front and putting him a car’s length in front of Bottas.

On lap 34, Bottas equipped super-softs, emerging behind Vettel but with the pace to overtake him. With eight laps to go, the two were within a second and the Finn completed the manoeuvre to take third place on lap 44 on the Hangar Straight. “Great job,” he was told by the team.

“Minimal talking,” replied Bottas as he closed in on Raikkonen by more than 0.5 seconds per lap, producing his fastest of the race on lap 46 with an effort of 1m30.905s. Hamilton took the fastest lap overall, clocking in at 1m30.621s

Vettel’s tyre failure cost the championship leader dearly, pushing him down to seventh in the race behind Nico Hulkenberg. Hulkenberg himself started fifth, but a loss of electrical power with three laps remaining meant he was overtaken by Daniel Ricciardo, who himself made a brilliant recovery drive.

Hulkenberg had, however, held off the Force Indias at the start and masterfully brought Renault within three points of Haas in the constructors’ standings.Vettel’s early pit-stop had hurt him and his front tyres began to drop off with six laps remaining – the podium was out of sight. His Ferrari team-mate had second in his sights but when the front-left tyre ripped open, Bottas was gifted second place and Raikkonen was under risk of losing his third podium of the season. However, Red Bull’s Verstappen was also pitted as a precaution and Raikkonen retained third as a consolation.

Ricciardo, having started last, managed 33 laps on super-softs and pitted later than the whole field from sixth place with a rapid change for soft tyres to emerge 10th just behind the Force Indias. He overtook them efficiently and pipped Kevin Magnussen swiftly, making it to seventh by lap 40. Hulkenberg was an easy overtake on slower tyres and insufficient power to defend, while Vettel’s relegation from fourth promoted Ricciardo to fifth behind Verstappen.

Behind Vettel (seventh) were the two Force Indias, led by Esteban Ocon. The team avoided another civil war, though eighth-place Sergio Perez expressed his frustration at Ocon in front, espeically when the two were being held up by Magnussen mid-race, the Haas driver eventually finishing 12th ahead of team-mate Romain Grosjean.

Williams’ Felipe Massa earned a point from 14th on the grid, finishing 10th ahead of McLaren’s Stoffel Vandoorne who was cost his first point of the season with a slow mid-race pit-stop. Team-mate Fernando Alonso continued McLaren’s season of malfunction, retiring on lap 34 with a fuel pressure problem.

Marcus Ericsson, having started on softs, finished 14th ahead of Kvyat, rookie Lance Stroll – who struggled with a bodywork issue on his Williams – and Pascal Wehrlein, whose gamble to start on medium tyres and switch to soft tyres on lap three did little to change Sauber’s fortunes.

Have your say on the British Grand Prix in the comment section below.

Results, 2017 Formula 1 British Grand Prix, Race: 

POSITION

DRIVER

CAR

GAP

1

Lewis Hamilton

Mercedes

1h21m27.430s

2

Valtteri Bottas

Mercedes

14.063s

3

Kimi Raikkonen

Ferrari

36.570s

4

Max Verstappen

Red Bull

52.125s

5

Daniel Ricciardo

Red Bull

1m05.955s

6

Nico Hulkenberg

Renault

1m08.109s

7

Sebastian Vettel

Ferrari

1m33.989s

8

Esteban Ocon

Force India

1 Lap

9

Sergio Perez

Force India

1 Lap

10

Felipe Massa

Williams

1 Lap

11

Stoffel Vandoorne

McLaren

1 Lap

12

Kevin Magnussen

Haas

1 Lap

13

Romain Grosjean

Haas

1 Lap

14

Marcus Ericsson

Sauber

1 Lap

15

Daniil Kvyat

Toro Rosso

1 Lap

16

Lance Stroll

Williams

1 Lap

17

Pascal Wehrlein

Sauber

1 Lap

Fernando Alonso

McLaren

Retirement

Carlos Sainz Jr

Toro Rosso

Collision

Jolyon Palmer

Renault

Did not start

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435 comments

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1

Racing gods had a plan and now things look how they were supposed to. Many congrats to Hamilton, it feels like he was destined to win this weekend no matter what. Great pole lap and flawless drive to victory. Kimi showed great pace for a laggard and Vettel's pace was befitting of his talents. Great drive from Bottas, he is growing stronger and stronger, he is now seriously in the WDC. Max's defending was great and showed Vettel unfair antics the fair treatment. You almost feel like Max in 2nd best car vs his competitors is going to be lot of fun to watch because he is still going to win and fans get to watch his race craft. Hamilton leads the championship now, it going to be very interesting to watch the atmosphere unfold at Ferrari now.

2

Amen !!!

3

Racing gods? Things look how they were supposed to? What are you babbling about? Bottas is just a regular diver in the fastest car. Nothing more.

4

Give Max a Mercedes to get a new champion, I agree. Was he holding back Lewis a few times? Antics? Austin comes to my mind.
Bottas on second from nine, so much for the 'second' car on the grid. Even better... 1-2.
Ferrari, two cars, two faulty tires. Strategy? In the end, good points.

5

+1 agree especially your last point on seeing how things start to boil over in Ferrari since Merc have clearly now passed them in the development race and have the fastest car.

I'd extend huge congratulations to the Mercedes team for their amazing effort to give the drivers the racing winning cars, must have been some heroic hours they put in this year.

Red Bull also looking very punchy now, hopefully just a few more improvements from Renault and the aero team and they will be there after the summer break!

It must be tough being a tifosi and seeing your team that promised so much fall away, despite some fantastic driving efforts, and some dodgy pitwall calls never help either i guess.

Brilliant drives from Bot and Ric to come through the field - both showing their class when given decent equipment and Ham ran a very clean and perfect race as far as the little coverage I saw of him.

6

🔨⏱

7

Vettel still leads, by 1 point. But it is just an illusion and a formality at this point. So you're right, Lewis may as well be leading it.

Now...does all this make it easier for Toto to sign Vettel? 🙂

8

I think much depends on Hamilton. Does he want to go to Ferrari. It will not be easy predicting what team will dominate in the near future. Off course Toto will have Seb in mind, but top drivers would want to wait right now before commit. I guess thats why Seb hasn't signed yet.

9

Teams can't afford two superstar drivers. Which means ALO, VET and HAM in separate teams. It's massively expensive, doesn't gain you many more points for the constructors and it actually risks your two drivers taking points off each other and letting someone from another team take the WDC.

10

Are you really saying Mercedes can't afford something?

They OWN F1...without doing what Liberty did and actually buying it.

11

I think if you've won 4 WDC/WCCs in a row it's gonna take quite something to convice your paymasters you need to fork out another £20m/year to get Vettel or Alonso. Most of the big money deals that have been done over the past 20 years or so (Schumi to Ferrari, Alonso to McLaren, Alonso to Ferrari, Hamilton to Mercedes, Vettel to Ferrari, Alonso to McLaren (again...) were a team who had gone without success for some years trying to build something up; Mercedes doesn't fit the profile. Arguably Montoya to McLaren bucked this trend, but even then McLaren hadn't won for seven years. Kimi to Ferrari also wouldn't count, but he was replacing Schumacher.

12

Ferrari own F1. That's why they still have Phillip Morris on their list of sponsors/partners after taking Tobacco money was banned, it's why they get the first $100M of revenue paid to the teams and why their drivers don't get punished for deliberately ramming other cars under the safety car.
When autosport put their articles together on where Teams' money comes from (a) Ferrari didn't co-operate (b) Mercedes got less money from Stuttgart and more from sponsorship compared with the split in other top teams

13

and why their drivers don't get punished for deliberately ramming other cars under the safety car.

He did get a penalty though didn't he.

And let's be honest, Bottas has hit Raikkonen twice at the start and not received any penalty. Both put down to that cop out excuse, 'it's the start so it must be a racing incident'.

14

afford is something, worth is different.

15

James, if there were only two of them, it might be worth having both, just to prevent your rivals getting either. Three top guys makes this strategy pointless however.

16

It might. But if you're Mercedes it makes more sense to spend an extra $30M on the car than to have two $30M drivers. If Ferrari might beat you with Seb, they might beat you with Kimi, Ferndando, Max, Daniel ...

17

James, I doubt there is anything more that car needs.

18

If there is a Toto's plan, this race changes nothing.

19

They mentioned in commentary that Vet is set to sign a 3 year extension at Ferrari but the sticking point is he wants Kimi as a team mate. Why would that be I wonder ?

20

C63, another three years for Kimi?! He had a goid race on Sunday, but he would be older than half the commentators if he stuck around for that long! I think we will see a compromise driver in that seat, possibly Perez or Grosjean, someone who wont be any trouble for Seb, but also wont need a stairlift in the motorhome...

21

If I recall what they mentioned in commentary correctly, I think it was only Kimi for next season. I don't know whether it's true of course, but I'm sure that's what they said - reported in the French papers I believe. It's not hard to see why he would want Kimi though - he's got him well covered.

22

I think he wanted Kimi at least for another year.

23

When was this? I missed it. I did read something about a 150m deal.

24

Crofty mentioned it to Paul D during the race. Something about it being reported in the French media - Vet on the verge of signing a 3 year deal but wants Kimi for next season as his team mate, and Ferrari are keen on the 3 years but not the conditions attached.

25

Ted mentioned it either in one of his paddock walks, either Thursday or post race (I think the former).

26

120 mil/3years, why bother about his team mate, that is Ferrari decision. But anyway, he is not gonna say he wouldn't share his data as one said.

27

AlanF1, Ha ha, what difference would sharing data make if your team maye is so old and slow?! Dont forget that Lewis didn't say he wouldn't share data, just that he didnt think it should be.

28

Because there is no teammate drama with Kimi?
Because he likes him and wants him to stay in F1?
Because he wants to keep a WDC in F1 and Kimi is marketable?
Because Kimi is a good team mate and knows his responsibility in the team?
Because with 1 WDC vs. Vettel's 4 the team hierarchy is established?
Because when Vettel wins a Ferrari WDC Ferrari will have 2 Ferrari WDC without Vettel ever having to lose a WDC to his teammate?

...a few guesses.

29

vettel is scared of being humiliated by hamilton...he will not join hamilton at mercedes..
bottas may just finish ahead of vettel by november..

30

Did you miss the part where Lewis said he could retire this year?

Since Lewis is born in January, has he ever invited Toto to his birthday party? 🙂

31

he also said he is taking over and no one can get rid of him. only he can decide to quit seabee.
it doesn't matter how many times wolff attends vettel' birthday parties, vettel will never be as good a driver for Wolff to want to swap him with hamilton.....never! i saw more of his dirty tricks racing verstappen and bottas.

32

...actually, since Lewis admires Senna so much would he consider being even with him on WDC or beating his WDC total as proper thing? Maybe Lewis is looking for only 4 to match Senna, not bet him...hence those retirement comments?

33

Senna only has 3 titles, so if that was the game he'd have retired at the end of 2015.

34

My mistake. 3 indeed.

35

Next thing you know, Sebee will be inviting us to join him for maths!

36

C63, Sebee's prediction that Lewis will retire at the end of the season surely means we get to enjoy his talents for at least another five years?

37

If he wants to start thay music carrier, it's now or never!

38

and Hamilton scared of a 36 year old beating him?

39

But you forgot, the average gap between them in qualifying was a mere 0.014 seconds.

40

You do know that really the only reason Lewis is winning is because he is driving a German car that is a few steps above all others thanks to the PU advantage, right? You have no idea how he does if his car fills the grid and all drivers have it. That's the flaw with F1. You never really know who the best driver is.

41

Obligatory "If-Bottas-was-Mercedes'-lead-driver-Vettel-would-still-have-a-comfortable-lead-right-now" post.

42

Bottas would finish higher 4 times as leader with Lewis out of the way, including 2 more wins. He'd be leading the WDC.

43

Flawed logic Sebee, because Vettel would finish higher as well, including two more wins. If you just strip Lewis out of the standings Vettel would have a 20 point lead over Bottas (196-176). Even if you assume that in all the situations where they've finished HAM-BOT-VET that the mythical second Mercedes driver would come between Vettel and Bottas that only nets Bottas an extra 4 points.

44

...but it seems to me like we're agreed on the fact that with Lewis out of the way this would be a Bottas-Vettel dance. And I'm quite certain that Mercedes have the needed pace to deliver it to Bottas in that scenario, proving that it is all Ze German Mercedes indeed. 🙂

You know, that story line that "it is all thanks to the car" is not changed. Another Lewis win may make it seem like it is all Lewis, but I'm not sure Mercedes likes that story line. Bottas winning the WDC this year would once again highlight the car a lot more, that it is the Mercedes car that is the champion maker. I still wonder if Mercedes will play that card. It is a possibility available to them, and we should not forget that Toto likes Bottas enough to have represented him until he no longer could due to conflict.

45

It's all thanks to the car except if the other driver in the car was their best driver they'd be losing by more? Fair enough.

46

What a rabbit hole this type of stuff is?

47
Ricciardo Aficionado

Yes you do. He's Australian, drinks from a shoe. And if he'd started where his teammate had started we'd have seen Hamilton awkwardly caught between an unappetising act of submission and his adoring fans baying for said submission. Now THAT I'd like to see.

48

Sebee: In fact we DO know, 2008-2013, nothing, leashing his dog...
That is very true, we do not know who is the best F1 driver.
The best CAR always win the championship.
And we get excited by that driver, it is soooo tragic-comic.

49

Except when Alonso is driving, then it's automatically the 6th best car at best.

50

How is it a German car when it's all made in Northamptonshire?

51

To be fair, the tyres are made in Milan.

52

A good number of Mercedes road cars are made in South Africa for the local market as well as exports. Its still a German car!!

53

How is Poland born Klose Polish when he wears a German kit? Who's kit are these Mercedes AMG EQ Power+ "players"wearing? What anthem is played when they win?

54

Sebee, they play the Austrian anyhem when Red Bull win. How Austrian are those cars? Klose is Polish, putting a German jumper on does'nt make him German, in the same way that painting a Mercedes badge on a car designed, developed and constructed in the UK, doesnt make it German.

55

Ask the drivers who the standouts are. They always know. And isn't there a season-end poll among team principals on which driver among them all did the best job?

56

Crick, yes there is, but as Lewis has won it on numerous occasions, its validity has been dismissed by many people on this site....

57

I take it that there's a lot of Ham critics among the skeptics.

Other drivers have their moments, but I can't think of any others who have had so many and had such consequential ones as he has.

58

The Mercedes PU advantage over Ferrari is now very small. The Mercedes W08 is as German as the Red Bull is Austrian or the Force India is Indian, car and engine are built in Britain by international (but mostly British) teams . You're quick to rubbish Hamilton, but Vettel only got his WDCs because Adrian Newey was better than anyone at defeating rules designed to stop blown diffusers. Good drivers end up in good cars.

59

The Mercedes PU advantage over Ferrari is now very small

Out of interest how do you know this?

We would need to see GPS data of the Mercedes and Ferrari when running in Q3 on their most aggressive engine modes. I think it is still the case the Mercedes Q3 engine mode is a cut above Ferrari's.

60

NickH, I dontvthink anyone doubts thr Merc Q3 mode is a cut above Ferrari's, but the clue as to how useful yhat is in the races, is in the name...

61

but the clue as to how useful yhat is in the races,

Well, when they use it pretty useful I imagine Tim.

62

NickH, you could have spared my blushes and not reprinted my typos! The use of the higher engine mode is extremely limited, I believe written permission has to be obtained! Its worth a couple of tenths, but Ferrari have one as well don't forget.

63

Haha apologies Tim.

64

OK, no one can be 100% certain. I've got some slightly out of date inside info, and I'll drop someone in it if I'm not careful. However not everyone who works for a team knows the exact power output of their own engine and similarly small numbers work out the acceleration using GPS and estimate the power of other teams engines.
We've all observed that Mercedes can do manage a little bit more in Q3 - the number of Joules of electrical energy you can put back per lap is fixed, so this suggests they are getting more out of the ICE ...
My information is that Ferrari and Renault are both closer to the Mercedes than they were, but Ferrari has closed up more.

Seeing the cars being roughly equal - and not Ferrari at handling circuits and Mercedes at power circuits says to me it is not a case of Ferrari having a much weaker engine and making up with a much better chassis - it's more plausible that both engines and both chassis are close to each other. But one can't be absolutely certain.

65

"Mercedes PU advantage over Ferrari is now very small."

You keep believing that James. Oh...have you ever heard of the tooth fairy?

Also, reminder once again, in the 77 GPS during Vettel's 4WDC run the RBs won 53% of races total with a 1/4 of that in final stretch of 2013 when teams gave up on V8 development, while Red Bull kept on it. Mercedes won 83% to date in PU era since 2014.

Knowng this, do you still wish to discuss car advantage and contribution James?

66

Compare the "now" from James's post to your "PU era since 2014".

From where am I it looks like a trivial case of "moving the goal posts to fit my story".
I _was_ used to quality comments from you, please don't let yourself down.

67

To put it another way for you, 83% Mercedes donination is 55% more dominant than 53% RB.

68

@JE, you are absolutely right, good drivers end up in good cars. Just look at Alonso!

69

@Cyber

To be fair, Alonso has driven for plenty of top teams - he just happens to have picked the wrong times to be there. He could still have been sitting in a Ferrari right now if he hadn't decided the grass was greener elsewhere and handed his notice in. No one to blame but himself.

70

All agreed C63, it was just a friendly punt. 😀 Through the years we have seen several painful cases where even WDCs have ended up in some truly miserable cars/teams. Villeneuve, Mansell, D Hill... most recently, Schumy, Button and still Alonso. Some self inflicted, some just bad timing.

71

Alonso would have won the 2007 and 2008 championships if he had not loused up his relationship with McLaren. He got within reach of 2010 and 2012 championships with Ferrari. He's past his best which is why Ferrari wanted Vettel and he took a huge cheque to go to McLaren whose Mercedes powered 2014 car was nowhere ... he wasn't the only person who thought Honda might be a magic bullet to be proved wrong

72

designed by british design team in britain, built by british engineers in britain, set up by british engineers and raced by a british driver albeit all paid for by german euros.

73

Yes mercedes don't employ any body but brits.... except for the italian guy named aldo Costa who is responsible for the whole car.

74

Ads. Nobody is responsible for the whole car.

75

Absolutely spot on James .

76

Ha ha ha.

Do you care to address that 53% RB win percentage over the 4 Vettel WDC yers, with near 1/4 of that 4 year stretch total of wins coming in the final GPS of V8 era vs. the 83% winning percentage for Mercedes PU cars in PU era?

Please, do enlighten us how those two are even remotely comparable. Vettel fought outside teams and drivers with a car that had about the same chance of winning a GP as a McLaren or Ferrari or something else, perhaps last 8 GPs of 2013 excluded of that 4 year stretch, after others voluntarily gave up on V8 development.

77

Sebee. Mercedes win percentage this year is 60%. What happened in previous years is irrelevant.

78

Sebee,
The answer is Webber, i always liked him and I don't want to run him down but the win rate differential largely lies there.

79

And that changes the fact that 47% of races during the period are won by non RBR cars (along with the points they got) how?

I understand your angle, but Webber's performance doesn't change the fact that other drivers hauled those points home and beat RBR 47% of the time, and WDCs came down to last race in a dramatic fashion twice and required ability to close the deal.

80

Sebee
How you ask?
Surely that's obvious,the other teams beat Vettel 47% of the time, maybe if you run Hamilton's figures alone (I can't be bothered) as the Redbull figures are virtually Vettel's alone they may be closer to that figure,Webber unfortunately didn't represent the same challenge, had a more capable driver partnered Seb during that period then races where Seb didn't fair so well or had issues then the other driver in the team would have picked up the win as was the case with Hamilton and Rosberg, imagine if someone such as Ricciardo,Alonso or Rosberg had been alongside Seb during the 4 years that the Redbull was the dominant car you know as well as anyone that they would have scored a lot more wins than Webber managed and the team would have scored many more 1-2 finishes, put Massa or Webber in the other Merc instead of Rosberg for those years and I think the figures would read differently. As I say this is in no way a dig at Webber who I like and I'm not suggesting Seb would or indeed wouldn't have still had the same success, the 3 drivers mentioned are only a few examples that have shown the tools to win, perhaps Alonso and Vettel for arguments sake would have been battling to the last race if both at Redbull and at many of the races the rest would have been fighting over 3rd more often than not, as a result the others may have accumulated less points and been further behind.

81

Ah, this old chestnut rears its head once more. It's always been like that Sebee. Vettel is a big past beneficiary of unequal car performance ... he's got 4 titles because of it!

I'm not sure the PU is the differentiator ... I think Merc have a really good car for these open flowing tracks. KMag was holding back the two Force India's for lap on lap today. Ricciardo passed Perez, Ocon and KMag all within a lap and a half today!

We could look back at how drivers did in spec series. Lewis won 15 of 20 in Euro F3 (2005), and won GP2 in his rookie season. Vettel finished 2nd to his teammate Di Resta in Euro F3 (2006) ... he didn't do GP2. Hulk won Euro F3 in 2008 and GP2 as a rookie in 2009. Bottas beat Ricciardo in Formula Renault (2008).

82

Another comparison between Merc and RBR cars
Mercedes 2013-2016 / RBR 2010-2013 - dominance of the worst year and the best year .... 168% and 132% respectively.

83

KRB: "... unequal car performance ... he's got 4 titles because of it..." WRONG!

-Vet and RBR - 5/11/5/13 and 9/12/7/13 respectively from 19 possible. RBR average 50/63/50/68 % dominance
-ham and Merc -11/10/10 and 16/16/19 respectively from 19 and 21(2016) possible. Merc average 84/84/90 % dominance. Surreal!

No brainer, RBR was a less dominant car, Vet won worthier championships with tougher competition

84

Vet won worthier championships with tougher competition

You reminded me of something with your comment.
I met people that save their small change only in brand new coins, as if it would be of greater value once they break the piggy bank.
A championship is as great as another championship, no matter if you won it as Keke Rosberg, Button or as Nigel Mansel or Senna.

85

AlanF1, none of that makes any sense.

86

KRB: "Vettel is a big past beneficiary of unequal car performance ... he's got 4 titles because of it!"

How many titles got Lewis due to the same unequal car performance ??? Yes, right, all 3 of them!!!

The only thing is that Vettel could win without a winning car, remember at Torro Rosso in 2008 ? And what car is needed for Lewis ? He just doesn't wont to drive any "slow" car, remember what he published during McLaren's time ? Button, probably still happy
about Lewis's telemetry tweet in 2012.

87

Still f1 fan. Look at the 2009 F1 season for an example of Lewis winning races in a "none winning car". Then look up the winner of the constructors title in 2008, then tell me who won the WCC in each of Vettel's WDC winning seasons.

88

When did a driver win a WDC without the car winning the WCC.....oh yes..... Lewis Hamilton in 2008. Vettel, Torro Rosso in 2008 people forget Sébastien Bourdain finished fourth in the sister car as well so although a great drive the conditions suited the car.
In the modern era its always the car......the teams pay the big bucks to the best drivers.

89

KRB, "I'm not sure the PU is the differentiator.." .....really?? How many times do we need to run the numbers??
The case in point is that you can drop a couple of mid-fielders in and they are at the same level (even ahead last year).
Lewis did his best driving at McLaren IMO.

90

Interestingly, the numbers say that Bottas, a non-GP winner before this year has beaten Hamilton 40% of the time this year so far as far as GP results go. Just in case you wish to know what this Mercedes can do for you. Bottas is just 22 points behind Lewis at this point, so absolutely not to be discounted. If Toto has a soft spot for Bottas, a little DNF her and there and another new WDC is minted by Mercedes. But that is only a possibility if Mercedes choose in the end to retain Bottas.

91

Agree with what you've said but isn't it possible the engine mapping isn't necessarily the same for the customer Merc teams compared to the works team.

92

Nice try KRB. Nice Try. Little bit of selective memory today?

Durring the 4 years of the Vettel Red Bull run, Red Bull won 41 out of 77 races if my counting is correct. 53% of the total.

During the 69 races ran so far in the PU era Mercedes has won 57 of them, or 83%. 8 fewer GPs run and Mercedes has won 16 more GPs already. 53% vs. 83%. Need I say more?

I think this illustrates to you once again, that F1 has NEVER seen this level of domination by one team and Vettel 4 championship run was against stiff opposition from other teams. It is only in 2013 when teams surrendered and went on to focus on 2014 that Red Bull went on a tear end of the season.

As nice as this little Mercedes self imposed handicap distraction may have been start of this season, some of us know what time it is around here. No, not Hammer Time at all.

93

...and before you try to throw Ferrari into this discussion KRB, Ferrari won 57 GPs interestingly, same as Mercedes, but over 85 GP 5 season stretch, with only 2 of those 5 seasons being the dominant 15 GP wins for Ferrari. Even this dominant era stretch is still "just" 67% domination by Ferrari and Mercedes is 25% more dominant a car.

Not in our lifetimes has F1 seen such sustained domination level, or to put it differently, such predictability.

94

You're making the mistake of using the results achieved to gauge car performance. But if Driver A is 90% as good as Driver B, then when A has the good car and B the bad car, the results will naturally be closer than when B has the good car, and A the bad one.

2011 & 2013 were both easy walkovers for RBR. 2010 should have been too, but driver errors and reliability kept others close.

2012 was the closest, but again it wasn't that close. RBR had a good race day car for the first half, such that they led the WCC from round 3 on. Then when their DDRS appeared, it was racing effortlessly from the front again. 205 consecutive laps led for Seb from SIN-KOR. Yeah, really close competition.

The basic facts are that Seb had the best car by a comfortable margin 2010-13, plus a teammate who, while not as good as him, was also not going to be allowed to challenge him after 2010.

95

Ooooooh. ... that hurt yesterday huh sebee! The old Sebee returns with a vengeance. For the last 18 months or so despite talking lots of nonsense you've actually been quite amiable....seems yesterday has hurt.... suck it up Sebee. Yesterday was the just the universe putting things right. VET will be back but by the end of this season he will no longer be the most successful driver on the grid.... You've got 3-4 to adapt 😂

96

Dean,

Vettel will be the most successful driver on the grid by the way. Simply Lewis will match him, finally, for WDCs.

Is it just me or did Vettel achieve those WDCs sooner and over fewer Grand Prix raced and without the benefit of the most dominant car in F1 history and at a younger age, and the only one ever to go from no WDCs to 4 WDCs in a row, with each and every season of those WDC runs fighting against multiple teams and drivers? Just checkin'. 🙂

97

Sebee...your maths has gone right out the window dear boy. When lewis wins this year it will put the 2 of them on 4 WDC a piece but lewis has many more wins and poles. That will make Lewis the most successful driver on the grid. Do keep up dear boy. Like I said previously.... the old sebee has returned... either Sunday was a big realisation for you and it hurt badly or you have some issues in your personal life that have bought this to the fore. If its the latter then you have my sympathies if it's the former...... hehehe

98

If you've happen to read any of my comments since pre-season you know well that I never bought this story line that Ferrari was a match for Mercedes and I fully expect Mercedes to take it at will. I always felt Mercedes turned it down for good of the show, this time blaming tires - of course, because at no time can there be anything possibly wrong with the actual Mercedes car itself - ever, nor can it ever be passed on track for P1 in a battle. I never believed Ferrari stood a chance, I always said Mercedes was going to play this dog and pony show and then steamroll the field after Monza. I am very clearly on record saying that this season would yield 4 non-Mercedes wins, and now admit that it may be 5 due to Baku headrest pin - which was not going to be a non-Mercedes win if not for that. Now Mercedes will throw Hungary - somehow, to keep the belief going that this is a competition over the summer break, before lighting it up, winning the WDC in spectacular fashion, and perhaps driver contract situation deciding who it is that gets the WDC - with Bottas WDC still a possibility if Mercedes choose to retain him. As I said, Mercedes clearly owns F1, and they had a plan orn their 50th anniversary here all along. That plan was to make it into a show so that people would watch how glorious they are. Any thought that they lost any pace in the widening of the cars is a misguided illusion.

99

Cuckoo....Cuckoo.

100

strictly speaking, hamilton's car is not a German car. the engine and chassiss are both designed and built in britain by british engineers, assembled, set up and raced by a team of british race engineers. it's only got a german name because all he hard work is paid for by germen euros.

101
Tornillo Amarillo

English genomes are a quarter German and 45 per cent French in origin.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3000998/Are-Welsh-truest-Brits-English-genomes-contain-German-French-DNA-Romans-left-no-trace.

It's more complicated...

102

And Canadian genomes are? Mostly British and French. Your use of a daily mail article discredits all your good work.

103

And Malaysian Ringgits.

104

😍😍

105

... and Sebee, add on the inherent schizophrenia inside every team with 2 mates fighting it out!
Ask Federer or Messi what they make of this "sport" 🙂 🙂 🙂

106

Yes, the sport will continue to be flawed until your favourite driver is winning again.

107

Shalan, hits nail squarely on head...

108

Sebee, fair point, but doesn't stop people from saying alonso is the best. People were so amazed with his p1 in q1, not realizing he got outqualified by Vandorne.

109

Sour grapes Sebee.
All eras you have top teams in development wars and the best drivers. Max and Lewis would make a great team tussle.
At Silverstone ,Vettel looked rubbish in the dogfight with Max (who was awesome).

110

You know at start Max won the position from Vettel but very soon Vettel had pipped Verstappen as well, but Max recovered soon. But he lost the position anyway - on the track and you need to remember that before anyone will tell you Vettel didn't win the position on the track, although on a very small time.

111

Vettel probably deserves to be a one-time world champion, but no more.

112

and Hamilton deserves none. Its all the car. He has never had to drive a back marker car or even a midfield one. In the same car, most drivers would blow him away, Oh no. I forgot - that would then be a conspiracy to sabotage him!

113

In the same car, most drivers would blow him away

I can hardly be bothered to reply to this but what the heck, I'll humour you - if your claim is correct then why haven't his teammates blown him away ? They were, after all, in the same car.

114

He did not have the best car in 2008, and won. Last time the WDC was won in a non-WCC car.

In terms of seasons won, he's beaten Alonso 1-0, Heikki 2-0, Button 2-1, and Rosberg 3-1. Three world champion teammates, all fought in their prime years. He was only out-performed by his teammate in one of those years (2011), and even then scored the same amount of wins. No Ricciardo-on-Vettel demolition job will happen to Lewis.

115

The V vs. V little tussle was quite tame. V. pushed V. wide, V. pushed V. wide right back. It wasn't very vindictive as some voiced vividly.

116

Really? At the top teams are pretty good judges of driver talent and of a driver's whole package. And in turn, the best driver's need to be very sharp judges of teams and cars. So in the long run, the best overall teams and the best overall drivers tend to find one another. You don't get to be a great team without great drivers, and you don't get to be a great driver without a great team.

By the way, when Ham arrives at a new team, championships are on the way. It's been that for his whole career. He's a heavy investment, but when you think you're ready, he's got the package that delivers. And he seems to deliver under pressure more often than most others.

117

RedBull grows their own drivers, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault place drivers in their customer teams. Some teams need money just to survive so they take on pay drivers. So it's a bit more complex these days than a simplistic claim that the best drivers end up in the best teams. They demonstrably don't for any number of reasons.

I also don't swallow the "Hamilton brings championship" claim. The numbers tell the true story, 6 years with McLaren Mercedes and only 1 championship and 4 years with Mercedes and 2 Championships. That's 3 out 10, with Mercedes engines being the common denominator. Maybe it's Mercedes that has the package that delivers?

118

Gary, I'm trying, but there's nothing that I can see in your description of "the system" that gets in the way of the best teams attracting the best drivers.

Hamilton's first year at McLaren was as close to a championship as you can get, and then he did get it in the next. Mercedes gathered itself during his first year, and then Bang, Bang. A near miss the third. A good chance this year. Before before F1 it was the same way: he shows up and within a year or two there's the top trophy.

You can't demand a championship every year from a driver, of course. But his record compares well to any other. Plus, he's won F1 races in every car he's driven. Alonso once pointed that out admiringly. He also said that Hamilton was the only driver on the grid who is faster than anything he sits in. Drivers know stuff about other drivers. Hamilton's car control long has been called the best in the business. He's flexible: he more handily than most changed his cut and thrust style to a more even cornering technique better suited to the hybrids, and is still the only current driver to have won champioships in two eras.

When McLaren went into its downward spiral after 2008, it took a few years, but he left what was no longer a top outfit. Best drivers to the best teams.

Mercedes make a great engine. The car is pretty good, the handling and road holding and drivability are right up there too. One of the reasons why the top teams are so covetous of drivers like Hamilton, one of the reasons why they are able to consistently come up with great cars and egines, is that a Hamilton will more consistently realize more of the car's potential in combat, practice and testing. Those demonstrations are instructive.

119

"there's nothing that I can see in your description of "the system" that gets in the way of the best teams attracting the best driver"

I wish it was that simple, firstly tying down a definition of "best teams". By an measure Ferrari were not a "best team" when Schumacher went there, they didn't win a championship for 21 years, not since the great Jody Scheckter in 1979. To many that championship was the "best driver" winning with far from the "best team", he was just that good. Sure some people will argued that Ferrari are always a "best team", but demonstrably not in that period of time. Similarly were Bennetton a "best team" in 1994 when the same driver won a Championship, hardly.

Conversely, RedBull would be considered a "best team" , but they don't attract the best drivers drivers, never have. They grow them through their development systems.

There are so many examples of the best drivers winning championships with not the best teams, Alonso with Renault being one. There were other teams, "best teams", but he went to Renault. The "best teams" didn't attract him. Vice versa, there a number, albeit smaller, of not the best drivers winning championship with the best teams. I'm sure plenty of examples come to mind.

There are also plenty of examples of the "best drivers" being attracted to not the "best teams" for all sorts of reasons. One stands out currently. The reasons as to why are irrelevant, the fact is one of the "best drivers" wasn't attracted to one of the "best teams". Or maybe the "best team" wasn't attracted to one of the "best drivers".

Look down the grid right now and try pointing out the "best drivers" that were attracted to the "best teams" or vice versa. The top 10 for example, only 2 of them I would consider "best drivers" attracted to the "best teams". Then look at the bottom 10, how many "best drivers" are not in "best teams", a third perhaps.

Lastly, how many teams only choose one "best driver" and deliberately don't choose the other "best drivers" that are available? I can think of a few right now.

120

Hello Gary,

It's fun to knock this question around. You've got me thinking.

The best team with the best drivers doesn't always win the trophy, but it's more likely to run up good stats over, say, 10 years. It's consistency over a given time period that's the real gage of ability and effort.

And somehow those teams that do prevail over the medium run tend to have attracted better people at critical positions, lots of sponsorship money, and an above average haul of very good drivers and young drivers in waiting. And they get it all to work in relative harmony.

Talent attracts talent. Potential attracts potential. Over time there's a sorting. It's fluid, not rigid, but it's there.

121

Good points well made crick. Plus 1

122

C, thanks. In racing - as in any other competitive profession - someone who's consistently productive at a high level has more than luck and personality at hand. To not think about all that does make up a very good driver is nearly an insult to the abilities and efforts of every driver.

123

Agreed Sebee, everyone can spend hours comparing stats etc. but at the end of they day they are car jockeys. If they've got a nag they dont stand a chance of beating the stats.
Alonso is a classic case of so much talent but terrible at picking teams (and possibly self destructive at it as well), whereas Ham, Schu and Vet are all pretty good at it and the stats reflect that.

124

Interesting choices;

"Ham" was brought to F1 by Ron Dennis and simply followed the Mercedes engine from McLaren to Mercedes.

"Vet" was brought up in the RedBull system and hasn't done as well since leaving it.

"Schu" is probably the best example (of the 3) to make your point, but even he went to Ferrari when they were no where and then built a team around him. Albeit with a lot of help from his friends from Benneton. So he arguably defeats your point as well.

125

To say Hamilton followed the Mercedes engine to the factory team is pretty reductive, when he left McLaren they still had the Mercedes engine and the faster car. Obviously he had an eye on 2014 but I doubt he or anyone realised the extent that they would be ahead of McLaren, let alone the rest of the field.

126

Common Sense Dave...i hope it's catching!

127

But that has always been the way in F1 since 1950. A really quick driver in the best car will nearly always win, there are exceptions to this, but it is generally the case. One make series iron out these anomaly's, but then it wouldn't be F1.

128

No, but you can make some pretty strong inferences. I think you can make an argument for any of Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo, Alonso and Verstappen being the best for various reasons, I'd rule anyone else out pretty much out of hand.

129

If a German team wants a German driver, they will make him a German Champion in a German car if they want to. I do believe that happened already once right in front of your eyes, did it not?

131

you must be desperate now seabee..

132

Vettel still leads by 1 point.
Which is a pity.
I think Max or Kimi deservedeserved 2nd.
Well done to the Brit on home turf 👍

133

Get in there Lewis! No trap from Ferrari would have prevented you from winning this one. Well done!

134

I find the whole "trap" thing nonsense. Bottas was in a similar situation in Austria and made little difference. Lewis is substantial faster than bottas so I didn't foresee a problem. Typical media hype trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

135

they couldn't see their own tyre trap..

136
Tornillo Amarillo

Lewis is on track for the WDC, Mercedes too for the WCC, Bottas too for his new contract, they would be to keep this team forever, including both drivers for years to come.
Huge achievement, just congrats!

137

Yep agree with you.
On the opposite end Toro Rosso
" The Torpedo Kyvat " . Tost needs to show him the exit door. As Webber said "he is not on a skill level for F1."
Hassan need a get rid of Grosjean too. He spends most of his time moaning ...maybe get him a vegetable patch to tend and sort his ZEN out. 😄
Toto said he is the last person to moaning after his career of crashes.

138

Yep. Spot on Tornillo and PK. RAI and MAS should retire after long and worthy careers. GRO, KYV and ERI best replaced...

139

Apologies. PAL too. Whilst I have nothing against any of these drivers, there are, IMO, better options out there for each of these teams.

140

Ouch!!! Painful race for a Ferrari Fan. Hamilton untouchable today and Bottas with a great race and DOTD for me. Mercedes surely are stretching their legs with much less of a doubt now.
Vettel is still leading, but that will be little comfort over the next couple of weeks. Raikkonen and his legendary luck again.
Verstappen & Ricciardo finally both finishing, the later having to work a bit for it and giving a good performance.
Good day for Hulkenberg, important points for Renault and hopefully the beginning of a good stretch.
Both Force India in the point anew and Ocon in front made this race somewhat less painful for me. Marc

141

Raikkonen and his legendary luck again

I've always felt that Vettel has a lot of luck - but that might be because I'm biased 🙂

142

Mercedes is back where they were last few years. Ferrari gave us a bit of hope at the beginning, which is now diminished. I am almost guaranteed now making $1.85 per $1 from the $1000 that I put on Mercedes winning both championships.

DOD Bottas for sure. Having said all of that, there is no excuse for Vettel's poor start again. I am also looking forward to hearing more about double tyre failure. James, was Bottas faster than the Ferraris on both tyres?

143

Wasn't Vettel's brakes supposedly on fire at the start of the race? It really doesn't matter it looks like Merc has the measure of Ferrari now. It's only a matter of time before Hamilton and Bottas pass Vettel!

144

they pitted too early fighting verstappen..

145

What thrill.
Congrats to LEW and Briton fans for the great party.
VET didn't use 8th gear when BOT overtook him, as per broadcast graphics.
Gearbox prawblems ???
What was smoking in SEB's car at the grid start ?
Gr8 have of BOT once again. Will Merc renew his contract ?
...
RAI should hv let SEB pass him on the second leg of the first lap, instead of chopping him.
I'm sure the race outcome would hv be much different... meh!

146

I wonder, why do you only congratulate Briton fans...

147

Here is the pic of BOT overtaking SEB.
SEB never used 8th gear, while BOT did.
Why?
Did he know his tires were shot and could not stand higher speeds?
Does his car has gearbox problems and demands another change with pelanty ?

148

Hardly any difference in top speed and Bottas had DRS and slipstream.
Also maybe Vettel chose to keep it in 7th gear and use the high revs/top end which at that time could have been a better choice then to make an extra upshift(and downshift) for just a couple of meters cause gear changes cost some time=distance besides other factors like car balance disturbance. Which is not a lot but a lot more when you defending on the inside line before taking a high speed corner. Logically you can't take that corner with the same speed as normal, another reason not to shift to 8th.

149

GET IN THERE LEWIS🏁🏁🏁
TOP DRAWER 🏁🏁🏁
Well done Bottas
Great battling from Max V who made Vettel look mediocre.
Unlucky Kimi he deserved 2nd.
Great Victory from Lewis.
Karma Police for Vettel shame he got a point lead still.
Mercedes have let loose the horse power once more 👍👍👍👍

150

What does lewis need to to for driver of the race?

151

Not be Lewis Hamilton?

There's a lot of people, especially colonials out there who loathe him and his success - jealousy I guess.

152

...and Jackie Stewart is on top of that list!

153
Tornillo Amarillo

Go to Live London.

154

No smart person with a lot of money would live in the UK! Jenson Button doesn't even live there!

155

Michael, neither did Jackie Stewart when he was driving...

156

RIC - Overtake 75% of the field, 1/3 of them twice. Run a tyre strategy that outlasted everyone else while running in traffic and then finish < 15 seconds shy of his team mate who started 15 places higher and ran in open air for 65% of the race.

As compared to running in open air in a car that is still significantly superior to the rest of the field, where his team mate, BOT, climbed from 9th to 2nd.

157

Cyclogogist. 15 seconds behind team mate who made one more pit stop....

158
Ricciardo Aficionado

Overtake someone?

159

Ra, did you vote for Lewis in Barcelona when he overtook Vettel?

160
Ricciardo Aficionado

yep

161

Ricciardo Afficionado, Really? I can find no trace of you doing that, I did find a comment on the race report where you say that Lewis' overtake on Seb wasn't as good as Seb's on Valterri, and that his victory was mainly down to luck and strategy.....

162
Ricciardo Aficionado

It was on one of the opinion pieces later in the week.
And what's so wrong with my stated opinion? You take my indifferent analysis of events and warp it into an attack on your hero. I wouldn't be surprised if this comment becomes some kind of assail upon Lewis in your mind.
Haven't you heard? Ricciardo I the new focus of F1 now.
Look forward TW. I think we're going to have the race of the season in Hungary this weekend. A battle Royale between three teams and five drivers.
Bookmark this page you can come back and check my quotes after it happens 🙂

163

Be in a less competitive car for starters...

164

Wesa, did you vote for Lewis in 2013?

165

"What does lewis need to to for driver of the race?"
Drive a car in the same category as the rest.

166

David, they are all in the same category, Mercedes have done nothing that Ferrari couldnt have.

167

When he did that he won 75% of the races (Euro F3 2005). You want that instead?

168

If you are on pole in a vast superiour car that brings you to victory while on std cruise control throughout the race its always a challenge to get the DOD award. Thats a fact not just for Hamilton but for all drivers being fortunate enough to have such experience.

169

Oblah. There are several people who come to this site who have never voted for Lewis as driver of the day, the fact is they never will no matter what he does.

170

Congrats to Ham, too quick today and Ferrari lost any strategic advantage once Vettel got stuck behind Max. I thought Raikkonen had got the better start initially but Ham just about had it covered. Desperate luck for Kimi but at least he got on the podium and a good performance all weekend especially after Marchione's laggard comment. Strange tyre failures on both cars and real costly for Vettel.

171

real costly for Vettel.

Real good though 😉

172

C63,

Ha, 'karma' working its magical mysterious ways in dropping Vettel down to 7th when the FIA couldn't or was unwilling to penalise him. His lead wiped out in the blinking of an eye. Bet you had a glass of (whatever) when you saw this happen.

173

I imagine champagne was popped in the C63 household!

174

There was indeed a celebratory mood that evening in chez C63 🙂

175

I feel like this is too early for Mercedes to pull out, as far as good of F1 goes. They know they got this with ease. To keep the illusion alive and story line of two team Championship battle going over summer break they need to throw Hungary away.

But how will they do that now?

Another tire issue angle? Certainly they won't take each other out or have mechanical failure - bad PR...although that would spice up the summer break chatter. I think the first thing to do is for Mercedes to turn down the PUs and give up the front row take it from there with some pits top errors. We haven't had that happen to Lewis yet this season, right?

176

Lewis will get food poisoning from a Mykonos deli just prior to the race, vomiting in the helmut etc,etc but just struggle home 4th. Bottas will endure an infection caught while minding Lewis' dog Roscoe, and struggle home 6th.

177

Another great race! Many congratulations to Lewis on his fourth consecutive British GP victory, serene and imperious out front today, nobody could touch him. In contrast Vettel had a seriously scruffy afternoon, we saw him off circuit a few times and locking that left front on more than one occasion, did this contribute to the failure? Kimi and Max having the same problem would suggest not, but it all spiced up the last few laps didnt it?
Championship closed up nicely, good racing from Max at the start, and a great drive from Hulkenberg.

178

good racing from Max at the start

Mighty impressive stuff - at first I thought Max was a bit cheeky in his defence but when they showed the overhead camera shot it looked tit for tat to me.

179

C63, yes Seb shoved him off, Max got him back! All as it should be, and without the hysterical reaction that occurs every time Lewis does it, very refreshing.

180

When Max returned the favour to Seb - did you see Seb waiving his hand at him? Do you think he really believes he didn't have that coming or is it more of a calculated thing trying to get a penalty by playing innocent?

181

C63,

Playing the "victim" as well as getting all shirty because he couldn't make the pass stick. A failed overtake, two guys pushing each other off the track, Seb waving his hand in the air and both complaining over their team radios. And some people thought this was the highlight of the race. And to top it off having to listen to Crofty go into volcanic raptures over it. Pretty much nothing to do about nothing. The more I see and hear of Vettel the less respect I have for him. Not that he gives a toss about that.

182

Four consecutive wins at Silverstone is a new record - for LH Silverstone is a beautiful English Rose.

Nice touch to see Nick Hamilton giving a hug to his Big Bro. It's well known Nick suffers from CP, but like his elder brother he's a very gritty and determined person who faces adversity with admirable resolve. Well done Nick!

183

Same front left tyre problem for both Ferraris at the end! Incredible.

I predicted an orderly drama-free procession, but a great track yielded a good race.
Max was the star for me, fair throughout the duel with Seb, he's given up his old illegal moving in the braking zone.

184

With regards to Kimi, Max and Vettel...............Silverstone is a front limited, understeer limited circuit, and with it being clockwise, it's the left front that takes all the abuse. Add on the fact that the track was still "green" after yesterday's rain washed all the rubber off the track, and the surface would have been very abrasive and gnarly................it's upto the driver to nurse and protect the front left from blistering/graining on a bumpy, abrasive track. Oh upto the constructor to take some camber out/soften the suspension in order so that the front left is not overloaded............

The combination of more downforce for 2017, softer compounds and a green track with all the rubber washed away results in the front left delaminations......

10/10 for Lewis Hamilton............pole, perfect start, led every lap, totally in control, fastest lap, victory. And that's the first time any driver has won 4 consecutive races at Silverstone - another record. Missing the London event? Who cares about that now?

185

The mini vaca appears to have done a world of good. As ham fans, we should start ignoring the hate, especially from the media. Its a shame really, because Alonso skipped out monaco, our crown jewelry for Indy and no one criticized him. Lewis takes a 2 day vacation and the media loses their collective minds. It was no different following the decision to leave mclaren for mercedes. And yet again, it's paid in spade.
👑 Lewis👑

186

Alonso is Spanish and lets face it McLaren isn't in contention to win anything!

187

they pitted to early fighting verstappen..

188

I am slowly starting to shift my belief in Bottas more than on Vettel now, to keep stuff interesting through the year.

Like James said, Mercedes were simply being held back due to tire setup issues earlier in the year, now it's solved. Ferrari need to do something Unbelievable and soon!

189

There is no way that Mercedes/Hamilton are going to allow Bottas to get anywhere near the WDC. We are doomed if that is only thing left to make this season 'interesting'.

190

The question is what can they really do? Merc has them covered now. This championship might come down to a battle between Hamilton and Bottas!

191
The Grape Unwashed

What a race! Hamilton had the perfect weekend. Bad luck Raikkonen, that was a very fine performance. Great recovery from Bottas.

Vettel got owned by Verstappen, never mind that Max was in a theoretically slower car. Stonking overtake at the start and then a brilliant fight later in the race -

"So he wants to play bumper cars!"

Brilliant quote from Verstappen, he absolutely trounced Vettel this race.

192

I hope Mercedes decide to hire Max from 2018 to pair him with Lewis, so Valtteri joins Ferrari.
It would make for an exciting year plus we might hear again Kimi's: "It can not be again the f***ng same guy!"

193

Whiner Vettel has had a pop now at Verstappen for not giving him the respect he believes he deserves and actually having the audacity to put up a fight and not just wave him through 😉

Verstappen's overtake of Vettel at the start, then the spirited fight he put up at Stowe and Vale were highlights of the race for me. He's certainly one of the more entertaining drivers to watch.

194

Don't think this is accidental. I think Max's people figure that Lewis is 2 1/2 years older than Seb, and Lewis is likely to retire sooner, the competition will then be Max vs Seb (and the chances are they will be in the top two teams). Max attacks Seb like no other driver. I doubt he would have tried the first lap overtake on anyone else or fought so hard against a faster car not driven by Seb. It's all to store up a mental advantage when Seb is in his last couple of seasons and Max is trying to win Championships.

195

With all respect but i think Max knew he had only one chance to a podium finish and that was to get in front of the ferrari's at the start. He managed one and held on to it as long as he could, trying to disrupt their strategy, what worked.

You could see when Seb did the undercut, that the Ferrari was way faster than the RBR. The half a second slower pitstop did not matter because Seb was way more ahead when Max came out.

Nice fight though, "if it had been for first spot" as Max said after the race and that, in a nutshell, defines the guy.

196

verstappen simply put vettel in his place..wanting to bump wheels at every opportunity..

197

Yes, Max got out of the race track with all 4 wheels to get the advantages over Vettel and pipped him - well done! Only that kind of trick helps Max! Bravo - you are the best!

198

Stillf1fan, how many times did Seb go four wheels off track?

199

You did see Max went off track because Vettel pushed him off track right?

200

did he not get a penalty for it then?
everybody pulling alongside vettel gets pushed off the track. the stewards don't penalise him because he's the only non mercedes driver capable of putting up a fight..he's as dirty as ricciardo's shoey.
vettel should watch hamilton and learn how to do it. when a driver is alongside, he's supposed to give them enough room into the corner. he's only allowed to take all of the track ahead of the challenger , so long as they haven't pulled up beside him..

201

Great race and drives by a few of the drivers. Shame for kimi.

The pace of the Mercs and Ferraris compared to the rest of field was outstanding

202

It looked like Vettels tyre broke next to pit entry? Wondering if he would have been allowed to cut through the gras into the pitlane...

203

Broke at Luffield.

204

It broke by the old pits entry.

205

Pole to the race win – majestic Lewis. Fantastic Bottas! Amazing drive from Daniel Ricciardo,. For a moment I thought I saw that JW whiskey advertisement displaying,
„Danni Walker – Keep Driving!„ DOT.

206

Great win for Lewis! 🏁🏆🏁🏆🏁🏆🏁🏆🏁🏆

Another Grand Chelem to boot, only Ascari, Clark and Mansell have had 3 in a season.

Some good fighting through the field. Except for Ricciardo and Bottas, not as much passing as expected.

Strange puncture/delaminations on the Ferrari's at the end. Thought Pirelli was past that this year, but maybe not.

207

So much for the Ferrari-Pirelli conspiracy!

208

Ted had some info regarding the "tire" issues. Ferrari ran them too hard, more than likely seb ran outta grib from the lock up and extended stint.

209

Not Pirelli's fault this time, both Ferrari's and Verstappen ran too long on that tyre following early pitstops. Left front gets hammered on this track!

210

Is that what it is called?

I really don't like it being called grand slam by commentators for 2 reasons. First, it's like F1 can't come up with an original and steals from baseball. Second, it makes me think of breakfast.

Surely there has to be an original F1 way or motorsports way to name this where we know what it means instead of commentators explaining, or rather redefining the meaning of a Grand Slam.

211

Grand Slam originally comes from "Bridge", and not baseball

212

If you go to the page on Wikipedia you'll see there are multiple sports that have a 'grand slam'. For me a grand slam is winning Wimbledon, Australian, French and US open Tennis championships in the same year.

213

The term 'Grand Slam' originated in the card-playing world in the early 19th century, specifically bridge. It was then borrowed and applied to golf, baseball and tennis in the early 20th century. In other words it's free game for commentators to use it for what ever they like,

214

Sebee, isnt "grand slam" a tennis term?

215

All I know is baseball uses it a lot! If nobody knows it's a base is loaded homerun!

216

Michael, a base is loaded home run you say? Thanks for clearing that up....

217

Yep just what I was about to add. Not so much golf, they're majors.

218

Since when has it been used in tennis? I see Wimbledon started to be called Grand Slam in 1924. The term goes back to late 1800s in baseball, and that's the sport that owns it. Unless you want to start borrowing and when Lewis wins the WDC this year we call it a touchdown.

219

Sebee, I wonder if anyone at Winbledon had heard of Baseball in 1924? I had certainly never heard the term "grand slam" used in connection with that sport before now. Hardly surprising though as baseball is a sport with zero global interest.

220

Apologies Sebee I know next to nothing about Baseball.

221
Tornillo Amarillo

Rookie Lance started P16 and early in his first stint was in P12, then was overtook by RIC. And that's it...
When Lance pitted in lap 23 I don't know why he joined in P18, he lost too much !
In lap 40 he was P14, but in lap 44 he pitted again!! Something wrong.
He drove very slow, 2 or 3 seconds slower than others, and he could just finish P16 ahead or Wehrlein. One of those days, but with some positives too.

Glad Massa from P15 finished P10 and got 1 point.

Williams had a lucky day because Toro Rosso scored 0 point, but with Force India very solid in P4 in the WCC, the team rather should push for keeping the P5 position for the rest of the year.

222

What is going on at Williams? They are nowhere. Are they trying to squeeze Stroll Sr. for some additional funds?

223

Rumours going round the paddock claim that Renault is trying to buy Sainz Jr out from his current contract.

224

I would love to see that! Sainz deserves to be in a more competitive car!

225
Tornillo Amarillo

In Germany they said it's already done, but they have to pay $8M.

I've already said it is because our succesfully campaign "FREE SAINZ!" 🙂

226

Congrats to Ham as he was flawless.! Well Merc did what they needed to do. Ham and Bottas got the great starts and they absolutely NAILED the pit stops as well. Amazing drive by Bottas as well as this looks like a 3 way battle now which means more pressure for Ham. I was astounded by the same tire issues for Kimi and Vettel in the last couple laps. Gutted for Kimi as he again did everything he should do and little to show for it. The playing field is leveled so looking forward to see how this unfolds. Max? - title imminent.

227
Tornillo Amarillo

This is the Lewis Hamilton I want to see!!
Is he keeping this attitude for the rest of the year ?
I hope so, this year he has to nail it! C'mon!! It's more about to avoid Vettel getting a 5-to-3 WDC. Hamilton should prevail in the record books !! He is doing it and it's now or never, a living legend.

Did you see how friendly Lewis was with Bottas? For now 🙂
Bottas is doing VERY VERY well, it is remarkable.

228

Why should Hamilton prevail in book records? Because you are a fan?

229

I think Hamilton really likes Valteri. His demeanor and attitude. No drama! But, things can change....one things for sure he's no Rosberg attitude wise!

230

Lewis generally gets on well with his teammate until they realize the extent of the speed he possesses. Judging from Bottas' post qually interview, the disparity is beginning to appear. He simply, couldn't understand where 7 tenths came from, considering they were neck and neck throughout the weekend. Unfortunately, as the car improves, and the thought of the wdc becomes apparent the relationship will turn frosty, unless bottas accepts 2nd driver role and capitalize when lewis underperforms.

I quite like bottas. The relationship seems positive but so was rosberg's in 2013...

231

There is more than enough evidence to suggest that it's exactly the reverse. Lewis gets on well with his teammate until he realises the extent of the speed they possess.

232

Care to provide your evidence? Hamilton has no problem with being beaten straight up. It's when anyone dips into the dark arts that he doesn't respect that. Rosberg knew he wasn't a match for Hamilton ability-wise, so he had to dabble in the more unsavoury side of the sport.

233

Mercedes cars are dominant again. Ferrari won't be able to win this development race IMO. Mercedes are just so strong technically in every area. They could start from the back and finish on the podium every race.

234

Curious comment, considering both ferraris outqualified bottas.. Maybe, just maybe it was a hamilton special..

235

Nothing curious about it at all. It's painfully evident to all of us who'd like to see some competition.

236

Some more competition, y'mean? In the races to date, it's been quite even over 10 races.

AUS, BHN, MCO - Ferrari were clearly better.

CHN, RUS, ESP, AUT - Very equal in performance. Russia was Bottas' super start and US 1st stint that won it. Austria same thing.

CAN, AZE, GBR - Mercedes were better. Significantly better in GBR.

237
Tornillo Amarillo

Hulk looked strong, the car is better, and is Red Bull surrendered to our campaign "FREE SAINZ" and let Carlitos go to Renault right away ?
Yeah, Renault making steps forward.

238

"Believe in Mclaren Honda"... apart from the obvious failure of an entirely new spec3 engine, I noticed on the start that both Mclarens were generally outdone by those around them. Alonso is known for being great off the line, and the Saubers were better. Is speed of the line also Honda's responsibility? Overall this is another joke of a race for them. I find myself consistently falling for their story of improvement and then inevitably let down. Honda should be slapped across the face, hard enough so the engine geniuses in Japan feel it. Maybe its time to go.. tuck your tails between your legs and leave like you did a few years ago. If we're close to the halfway point and you can only bring a 10hp upgrade that fails, and you thought the engine development was too easy at the start of the season, it just shows how inept you are on every level.

239

I believe it was a fuel pump failure.
Not sure who takes the rap for that.
I think the Honda problems are masking some McLaren reliability issues. It's easy just to say another HONDA failure. It would be interesting to know just how many DNF's were actually due to McLaren. Even when they had the Merc in the car their car reliability was not great. Ask any HAM supporter!!!

240

Alonso starts from the back with another new Honda unit and still doesn't make it to the finish.

It doesn't matter what it will cost for McLaren to divorce Honda, it's costing them more sticking with them at the moment. Even Sauber, as desperate as they are, look like steering well clear of a Honda (lack of) power unit.

241

My recollection is that Lewis did the fastest lap of the race with 1:30.6. Unless I am mistaken, he led every lap too. If that is correct - it is a total domination.

Such a good race. Lots of excellent performances. Ricciardo and Bottas both drove brilliantly. Verstappen won a lot of respect for his teammates defensive driving against Vettel. Hulkenburg did an amazing job too.

242

You're not gonna see many better Grand Slams than that, action all the way through the field. I think everyone in the points apart from Ferrari will have taken something positive from the race.

Hungary is a great Lewis track, but he's had some weirdly off races there too like in 2015. Having said that, I expect him to be leading the title going into the break.

Shame Hamilton got such a poor reception from the fans, clearly stilll holding the fact he missed the London event against him 🙄

243

Or maybe the fans just don't like him?

244

got such a poor reception

Lol - it was a bit embarrassing wasn't it. He's clearly burnt his bridges there 😂

245

The fans stayed for hours after the event finished, just to boo him some more. It was funny when he tried to enter the track and the fans kept throwing him back.

246

Jake, funniest comment of the week. Nicely done.

247

Poor lewis, he'll never be able to show his face in Great Britain again...

248

You think he cares?

249

Lewis got most lucky with it being Kimi behind at the early restart, instead of Seb. 😉

250

Krb, did you catch the cheeky radio message to Kimi at the restart? Something along the lines of "remember what Lewis normally does at the restart", obviously Ferrari still questioning the stewards descisions...

251

Did you hear the radio message to Kimi from Ferrari warning him to be careful at the restart with words to the effect 'you know what Ham does [at restarts]' . Cheek !

252

Or perhaps it was a way of telling Kimi don't run the risk of damiging your front wing by ramming Hamilton.

Besides it's not like other drivers wouldn't control the field the way Lewis does during a restart.

253

Didn't notice the poor reception from the fans! They cheered like mad for his pole position, on the first lap when he came round over a second in the lead and then went wild at the result and afterwards in the paddock.

254
The Grape Unwashed

MikeR, AndrewM suckered me with one of those comments last race -damn him! 😀

255

Sorry!

256

MikeR
We're being sarcastic.

257

''Twas sarcasm 🙃

258

crushing!

259

The Ferrari trap you spoke of yesterday, was it set by Mr Magoo ?

Yet again a race is decided by problems with Pirelli tyres. Not good enough is it.

260

Let's wait and see the reason for the failures. Though why did it seem to impact the Ferrari's more than the other teams?

261

Well done Lewis. Dominant display there and great celebrations, adding lots of value for the crowd. Liberty will like that!

Some great fighting and defending between Vettel and Verstappen. Hard racing, as it should be. Nothing wrong in my book with cars hanging others out to dry on corner exits. It's a classic tactic by Lewis (e.g against Rosberg, Canada) and a part of racing.

Bad luck for Ferrari at the end; Kimi deserved his 2nd. Ideally, we don't want punctures deciding results, but I'm not sure if Ferrari knew they were in danger.

Unsung hero of the race, Hulkenberg.

Would have been fun if all that rain after the race would have happened during it!

262
Tornillo Amarillo

Ocon started behind Perez, but he got ahead of him finishing in P8 at the end... first time ahead of his teamate?
Esteban is just speeding up his way up. is not "if" he would be a Champ, just "when"! I love he do everything on truck.

263

Not technically the first time Ocon was ahead, he beat him in Monaco when Perez pitted late in the race, and he was also ahead when Perez retired in Baku, but you could hardly call that a clean victory...

264

@tornillo
Agree! Ocon looks like the real deal. I really like him. Driver wise, the future of F1 looks good👍

265

Agree! I really like Ocon. The question is when will Renault come calling?

266
Tornillo Amarillo

JA has answered me that Ocon will go to Mercedes, so the question is.... "when?"
Not an easy one.

267

the best driver of all time best understands about race preparations than a media hang around...

268

aveli,

"The best driver of all time"? Now considering your bias no guessing who that is?

269
Ricciardo Aficionado

Alan Jones woulda won Silverstone 79 by half a minute if his car didn't break down.

270

"the best driver of all time"
The most ill informed comment of all time......

273

Senna? Schumi? Certainly not some clown in the fastest car...

274

We all know F1 is circus, your line about clown in fastest car is an ever enduring one. No need to repeat it each year :).

275

hamilton was on the podium on each of his first 9 races and has won at least one race in each season he has competed in. name a single driver who has achieved any of that..go on then, name one..p l e a s e!

276

A very lucky driver to have been in a competitive team all his career. Can you name one driver who has been more lucky in teams? Go on "name one...p l e a s e!". David Coulthard started at Williams and then moved to Mclaren, while those teams were competitive, he scored podiums every year for the first 9 years of his career, wins included. Oh does that make him the greatest driver of all time also? The only reason you are here squealing over Hamilton a hundred times a week is because he's had the fastest car for four years. Yawn.

277

Cheesypoof, groan, this whole lucky thing again? Really?! You give a great example in Coulthard of a driver with an even better run of team selection in his first nine years. How many titles did he win? Ferrari and Mercedes both have seats available next year, Fernando is also out of contract. If you are correct about Lewis being lucky and Fernando being unlucky, then we will see those two teams scrapping over his services. My prediction is he will stay where he deserves to be, and so will Lewis.

278

That's not how luck works is it Tim? You can look it up. I mean, many great sports people have detailed their beliefs on luck, but if I talk about it on here, I get jumped by several Hamilton only supporters. Doesn't change the facts that countless examples of chance and luck happen every day and that there are many examples of sports people speaking of it. Vettel speaks of it.

By the way, you consistently critique anything I say if I mention Hamilton, even on weekends when I don't mention Hamilton I get your criticism for not congratulating him, but someone like aveli with often false claims, ridiculous assertions, even on this very comment gets no words, because at the end of the day he's barking Hamilton's name. Its interesting how fairness works then in your selection....

279

Podiums don't make drivers great ... wins do. Coulthard was winless in '94, '96, & '04-'08. At Williams he scored 1 win ... during the same period Damon Hill - who not many would claim as an F1 great - scored 9 wins in the sister car. You're then trying to compare Hamilton to DC?!?

He's won every year, multiple wins each year bar one (2013, when the tire blowout at GBR handed the win to Rosberg). He's had 3+ wins in 9 of 11 seasons.

Let's compare:

HT = Hamilton’s teammate

1+ wins:
LH 11/11, DC 8/15, HT 10/11

2+ wins:
LH 10/11, DC 4/15, HT 9/11

3+ wins:
LH 9/11, DC 1/15, HT 6/11

4+ wins:
LH 7/11, DC 0/15, HT 4/11

This with 3 WDC's as teammates, all in their prime (2 as reigning champion), and without no. 1 status. One would think that such champion-calibre teammates could have won as many times as Lewis, in all the good cars he & they have had. Yet ...

280

I bring up DC for comparison because he like Hamilton debuted in a strong car. I brought up podiums in response to the original comment about podiums scored. Who on earth says "podiums don't make great drivers, wins do"? So we discount podiums and point scoring, but only look at wins, to serve your theory only then? Should we examine 100m winners by how well they do off the line, and strip Bolt of his medals then? This comment you're responding to based off someone proclaiming Hamilton as "the greatest driver of all time". I stated my facts that should matter if someone is proclaimed so highly, you've come in with your theory, but naturally, no comment regarding the biased and almost laughable claims the original commenter makes, because he's touting Hamilton. Mystery solved then.

In this era of F1 the entire lower half of a grid cannot win without some abnormal occurrence. The only realistic equal measure of a driver is his performance against a team-mate, and you're well aware Hamilton does not stack up as strongly against his team-mates, in comparison to the other drivers mentioned. You can look at the only true measurement that counts to a WDC or WCC, which is points scored, but who needs the actual quantifiable currency for championships when it makes Hamilton look outmatched by greats in the sport? By the way, claims of no. 1 status is just your belief. I count number 1 status in simple examples, when Rosberg was asked by the team to let Hamilton past last year, he did so. When Hamilton was asked, he didn't. That's a fact.

281

He beat Alonso as a rookie! He beat him in the standings but more importantly outperformed him. If Alonso thought he got lucky that year, he could have stayed and redressed it. He fled instead, comforting himself with excuses about the Bridgestone tires and purported favoritism.

When Button outperformed Lewis in 2011, Lewis stayed and redressed it, seriously outperforming Jenson in 2012 (though the points in the end didn't reflect that gap). I've asked before if anyone can name an instance of a driver lapping a champion teammate, when that teammate has had an incident-free race (as Hamilton did to Button at CAN12), and no one's been able to.

The simple fact is that Hamilton has had tougher teammates than most other greats. No old & past it teammates, none subjugated to the no. 2 role from the outset.

As for aveli, I guess you've missed all the times I've said he goes overboard with his praise. Why bother with anyone in the outlandish zone?

282

Easy to outperform anyone if you have the backing of your team while they are against your team-mate. Funny, he couldn't beat Nico or Button 'seriously' as you claim. Just look at the point tallies, the only thing that actually matters. The simple fact is, he has a weak point record against team-mates compared to the greats. But knowing you, you'll cling to the stats that suit your argument, don't worry, no one notices KRB. "None subjugated to the no. 2 role".. By the way Heikki said the minute the joined Mclaren he was a number 2 driver, and Bottas has been given team orders multiple times already within the first races, so that leaves Alonso , Button and Nico as team mates, and Alonso was the number 2 driver at Mclaren once the bridge was burned. That's a weak record on points against even team-mates, not worth mentioning in the same breath as 'other greats'.

283

LOL, again with the excuses for Alonso in 2007. They were treated equally then ... Alonso was mad that he wasn't given priority, not that Hamilton was being preferred!! If Hamilton was preferred, then Alonso would not have been anywhere close in the end.

Points tallies are not the only thing that actually matters ... it's performances that matter most of all. That's why RBR was only ever going to get rid of Kvyat first, out of the Ricciardo-Kvyat pairing, even though Kvyat outpointed Ricciardo in 2015.

Other F1 greats to be outpointed:

Senna was beaten on total points by Prost in both of their seasons together ('88-'89). It's only because Prost was beaten in 1988 by Senna - even though he scored more points - that we moved to the All Results Count points scoring system. The reason that most people regard Senna as the better driver, though, is that they could see that when it was between those two in the races, that Senna would come out on top more often. Senna outperformed Prost, no two ways about it.

Jackie Stewart was beaten by Graham Hill in both their seasons as teammates. I recall the Sky broadcast in Monaco this year, where they did a vignette on Graham Hill, and Jackie said that "he was a good, but not a great, driver" ... well he beat him both times that they raced as teammates! Jackie only beat his teammate Mike Spence 10-9 in the 1967 season. This despite Spence being his acknowledged no. 2.

Prost of course was beaten by Senna in '88 in the points scoring system in place then. He was also beaten by Lauda in 1984 as McLaren teammates.

Fangio was beaten by his teammate Farina in the first season of F1.

Even this year, we have Ricciardo with double the points of Verstappen, but still there are articles like this:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/opinion-ricciardo-verstappen-red-bull-926457/?v=2&s=1&q=max+verstappen

So no, points are not all that matters. Those in the know will always know that the vagaries of the points systems will sometimes not properly reward driving performances.

Hamilton seriously outperformed both Button and Rosberg. It was clear to anyone with two eyes who was the better driver in those partnerships. That it wasn't reflected by a big points discrepancy is neither here nor there ... there are many reasons for that. I believe JA did an article in 2012 about all of Hamilton's lost points, and it was something in the neighbourhood of 100 pts.

Even with all those lost points from that year, heading into Brazil in 2012, the points tally between Hamilton and Button read 657-647 for Lewis. Lewis was on course to win that race of course, before the Hulk took him out, and Button was there to pick up the scraps. That was a 35 pt swing between the two of them in the last race. That race was a microcosm of how their partnership went. Button's last win in F1 ... don't think many thought they were seeing that, that day.

I just watched the Track Parade portion of the British GP this morning for the first time ... interesting to hear from Brundle that Ferrari told him that their analysis put the qualifying gap there down "purely to Lewis Hamilton". Does Ferrari always throw out such praise to idiots driving around in the fastest car, I wonder? 😉

284

no luck involve cheesypoof...if it was luck hen at least one other driver would've found themselves in a similar position.

286

So Schumi was a clown in the fastest car from 2000-2004? Likewise Senna in 1990 and 1991?

287

I have to take their careers in totality, certain Schumacher in particular had the fastest car for a long time, Senna did for some time. The difference is both Schumacher and Senna on more than one season challenged for the title even when they didn't have the fastest car, but merely had a competitive one. Hamilton has never truly done that. What, 2010? He was already out of it before the final race, and if anything, Alonso was carrying that season in the slower Ferrari, to the last race. Apart from that Hamilton has never been able to demonstrate this truly over a season.

Even then, he's tied with Alonso on a season when Alonso was ousted from the team by mid-season, he's lost a season against Button and scored less while team-mates with Button, he's been beaten by Nico in a season, and Valtteri who isn't on the same level as Nico let alone Alonso or Vettel is able to come into the team as a newbie, follow team orders, and still outdo him on a weekend or two. Hardly what anyone would consider "the best driver of all time" which is the comment I responded to in the first place. I'm happy to let aveli bark in his delusion though, but that doesn't mean we all have to silently agree.

288

provide years schumacher and senna challenged for championships with cars incapable of doing so?
hamilton proved he was the best driver ever by destroying alonso, the then youngest ever back to back double world champion, in his rookie season. he proved that there wasn't luck involved when he scored 9 podiums in a row that season and won a race in 2011 with a car which battled midfield and backmarker cars all season. where does luck feature? he leads his team of engineers to build him the best car with which he wins afterall we all saw the great schumacher with the same team of engineers for 3 season regularly beaten by hamilton in a customer engined car, maclaren for 3 seasons. hamilton took over that same team of engineers turning them into championship winning car builders. what more evidence do you need..i know you struggle with prejudice but the evidence is profound!

289

The moment you say hamilton "destroying" Alonso, anyone with any common sense already knows you're opinion is virtually worthless. In 2011 Hamilton had a car which "battled midfield and backmarkers"?? In 2011 Hamilton was trashed by his team-mate Jenson Button. You're the one trying to prove Hamilton is the greatest, so you're the one who has to provide evidence. Instead of giving Schumacher and Senna as an example I'll use your example. Alonso challenged for the title in a car that was clearly slower than the fastest in 2010 and 2012, taking it to the final race both times. Hamilton couldn't even do that, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone rating Hamilton over Alonso in that time period. What was Hamilton doing in that time period? Getting outdone by Button.

Your earlier point of pride that Hamilton "won at least one race" in every season he competed shows how impotent these claims really are. Every team-mate of Hamiltons, in every season he has competed, has also won at least one race in those seasons, except for 2009. Every single season but one. Your theory actually backs my point, that Hamilton has been very lucky to have been in a competitive car every year in his career as his team-mates records show. So when you talk loud and proud about Hamilton leading winning car builders, guess what, all of his team-mates won races with them too. Hamilton's record against his team-mates on points scored over the years is nowhere near that of Alonso or Schumacher, and I'm sure Senna too despite having a 4 time world champion as a team-mate.

This would all be fine to debate on, if you weren't claiming Hamilton to be the greatest driver of all time. The greatest driver of all time got outscored by Jenson Button, a newbie to Mclaren joining Lewis' team, over 3 seasons, by 15 points. The first rule in F1 is beat your team-mate. So, the greatest driver of all time couldn't score more points than Button over 3 years then? Over 3 years allows for inaccuracies or a particularly unreliable season to be 'corrected', because after 3 years if you've scored less than your team-mate, you really can't truly claim to be that much better, can you? The greatest driver of all time can't stop Valtteri Bottas from winning races as a newbie to Mercedes? I'm not planning or hoping or wanting to convince you of anything, I'm just occasionally providing a counter-balance to your proclamations. There has to be a delusional person in every community. I think you might be it. Good luck with that.

290

I agree with you stating Hamilton is not the best driver ever.
However, there is no need to get personal. Everyone sees things in his/her own way, some are closer to the truth, some are way off.
Life is an illusion (news flash) - I guess that makes us all delusional.

292

you still haven't provided years schumacher and senna challenged for championships with cars incapable of doing so...

293

@aveli I'm not surprised your original response didn't make it past. I'd be hard-pressed to find a more incoherent ramble with little or no factual backing. I'll just let you talk more because honestly you undermine yourself.

294

cheesy,

"Incoherent ramble". Pretty much my experience as well.

295

The last driver to win the WDC for a team which did not win the WCC that year is Lewis Hamilton.

297

did senna and schumacher drive to slowest cars victory, winning in each of the seasons they competed in?
I feel sorry for you because there is a lot more to come...he ain't done yet!

298

aveli, are you talking about his world tour with Bieber?

299

Cheesypoof, obviously Ayrton and Michael never had the fastest car, did they?

300

Incapable.

301

Yeah, the best driver in the fastest car of all time fastest.

302

the best driver leads his engineers to build the best car he drives to record lap times poles and victories..that's all he needs to do to cause cardiac heamerage in prejudiced people like yourself.

303

except he wasn't there when they built it.

304

where was he when they built it?

305

aveli,

So since when do F1 drivers have qualifications in automotive engineering, aerodynamics, tyre manufacture, mathematics and physics to name just a few of the disciplines required to build an F1 car. Hilarious!

306

look at my post above and point out to me where i claimed drivers had any of those things you question.
hamilton simply led his team of engineers to design and build him winning cars...

307

aveli,

I certainly admire your unquestioned following of Lewis Hamilton who I myself regard as the most talented of the current crop of F1 drivers. But I do find your posts regarding him on occasions lack a certain amount of objectivity shall we say.

Firstly, that you are “sure” that Hamilton is the “best” F1 driver of “all time” is not a question that can be properly and adequately answered given its subjectivity. I mean how can you define “best” given the significant development of the machinery of F1 since its inception and the need for increasing driver knowledge and skills? It’s never wise to make absolute comparisons of drivers from different eras as it is with most sports.

However, the question that can be asked is who has been the most “successful” F1 driver of all time, to date at least. The answer to that is clearly Michael Schumacher with 7 WDCs, 91 Race Wins, 68, Pole Positions, 155 Podiums, 77 Fastest Laps and 1,566 Points. Now I don’t want to drag out Hamilton’s statistical achievements here, I’m sure you’re aware of them, but clearly even a cursory glance shows that Schumacher comes out on top by a significant margin.

Secondly, you said “the best driver (Hamilton) leads his engineers to build the best car he drives to record lap times poles and victories” Now how can Hamilton “lead” a team of design and engineering specialists to achieve record lap times poles and victories without having any qualifications and/or experience in these disciplines? What you’re basically telling me is that Mercedes’ success in building arguably the most formidable car in F1 history is due in some/large part to Lewis Hamilton.

Sorry aveli you’ve lost be completely. TimW, C63, KRB, Kenneth help me out, please!

308

@adrian..i find your post quite interesting.. why do you think there is anyone better qualified than hamilton to lead his team of engineers to build for him to drive to the record successes he has achieved over the years? there isn't anyone better qualified to do that. with all their oxford cambridge Andy harvard university qualifications, without hamilton's leadership they're lost. look at how poor those same maclaren engineers product was in 2013 soon after hamilton left them.
mercedes had schumacher for 3 seasons, beaten by rosberg each of those three seasons. felt they needed a better driver to take them to championship winning position and replaced schumacher with hamilton and hamilton delivered exactly what they wanted..

you like schumacher's statistics?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i8qLX8cVS3s

i can only tell you that there is no doubt in my mind that hamilton has done it all cleanly. look at how many pole positions he has scored relative to race wins and name another driver who has achieved them in a similar ration? none!

309

aveli,

You can hold whatever opinion you like about Lewis and you can say whatever you like about him on JA's Forum but the stats don't lie - Michael Schumacher is the most successful driver in the history of F1. And your attempt to paint him as a "cheat" to somehow prove that he is a greater driver than Hamilton is really just an attempt, a desperate one at that.

Michael has 7 WDCs whereas Lewis has 3. FACT!