F1 Winter Break
Moving under braking: The net widens as Daniel Ricciardo accuses Sebastian Vettel
Vettel, Ricciardo
Posted By: James Allen  |  30 Oct 2016   |  10:20 pm GMT  |  694 comments

“We know Max’s moves to be a bit questionable and it was the same today with Seb.

“I love racing hard and even a bit of contact is fine. But this whole moving under braking; I mean if you are going to defend you move early, you make your bed you don’t do it once you have been outfoxed.

“I feel like that’s what happened today. Seb was there, I moved so I had won the chess match, if you like and then he was like ‘I’ve screwed up now I need to repair my mistake’ – and that’s not right.”

The words of Daniel Ricciardo after a controversial end to the Mexican Grand Prix, which saw a deepening of the scourge of F1 drivers moving under braking, despite some action on the topic by the FIA last week.

Vettel, Ricciardo

Sebastian Vettel in the eyes of his former team mate was guilty of the same unsporting move under braking which he and the other F1 drivers have accused Vertsappen of all season and on which an FIA clarification was issued in Austin, which spoke of penalising drivers if their rival has to take avoiding action.

The stewards agreed with Ricciardo and gave Vettel a 10 second penalty after the race, which promoted the Australian to the podium; but too late to enjoy it.

Article 27.8 now prohibits any manoeuvre “…liable to hinder other drivers.”

The problem is how to define racing, when the criteria used by the FIA stewards to judge whether Vettel had crossed a line were spelled out as:
1) Driving in a manner potentially dangerous 2) An abnormal change of direction
3) Another driver having to take evasive action.

The longer the definition fails to cover what is at issue, the more drivers will exploit the area.

Verstappen really put Vettel away in his comments after the race,

“At least I can do it in a good way,” said the 19 year old. “He doesn’t know how to do it. It’s ridiculous. Daniel is alongside him and he turns into him and they touch. He’s shouting on the radio and using very bad language in general, so I think he has to go back to school to get some language. I will speak to him because it’s ridiculous how he is handling it. He’s just a very frustrated guy at the moment.”

Charlie Whiting FIA

Ricciardo spoke to Vettel after the race and told him to look at the video,

“He told me to look at it again,” said Vettel. “I was fighting very hard I am supposed to give him just enough room, which I think he had. I know Daniel is sometimes in going for a gap. I knew he would go for it whatever the cost. I tried to defend. In the end we made contact so it is never ideal.

“So I want to look at it again. if there was something then I will talk to him.”

The matter is certain to drag on into the next race as team sporting directors seek further clarification from FIA race director Charlie Whiting and the Drivers’ Briefing will be heated.

Today’s development shows that the practice is spreading, drawing in a four times world champion.

Sebastian Vettel

To complicate the picture further Vettel used very strong language against Whiting for not forcing Verstappen to give the place back at the end of the race when he cut the chicane. Vettel was very frustrated and twice sent a clear message to Whiting to “*** off!”

He went to apologise to Whiting after the race.

There was plenty of emotion and drama, which many would argue has been sorely missing from F1 in the last few years. But the lack of action on moving under braking is a higher level of threat than other controversies of recent times, as many drivers feel that until it’s clarified it will act as a disincentive to try a move. Worse, many feel that the ultimate outcome will be a massive accident.

Jenson Button spoke about this last week: “When you make a move you are on the limit, on the edge of being out of control,” he said. ” If someone moves and takes the space you were going for, you’re screwed. In my 15 years of racing in F1 we have not really had a problem, just in the last two years. So yes I’m happy with it [the clarification].”

Max Verstappen

Verstappen was penalised because he made no attempt to come back onto the race track into the second part of the corner, when there was a tarmac apron on which he could do so. He just drove straight across the grass and cut the corner. His argument was that if Rosberg was not penalised for doing the same thing in Turn 1 at the start, then he should not be penalised at the end of the race.

He has a point, but the difference is that when Rosberg cut the corner it followed contact with Verstappen which pushed him outwards. Verstappen’s corner cutting was all down to worn tyres and being too late on the brakes.

“It’s not right what Max did, so as you can imagine there was some adrenaline when I was told that they were looking into it for three laps,” said Vettel.

What do you think? Leave your comment in the section below

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Sunshine from Daniels DRS at least his head is where it should be. Ricciardo was on fresh soft tyres lapping much faster than Vettle he was going to overtake.
If you had been watching the race Rupert you would have known that.
Vettle spat the dummy and got what he deserved. Perhaps he should get his lawyers on the phone to the FIA


What strikes me as sad is that all of this debate is because this racing series has become so boring on the track that we have to debate minimal defense moves and cut corners to keep ourselves entertained.


There was a time when men raced fantastic and dangerous machines knowing that that the consequences of mistakes or collisions meant a broken car, or worse.

Now little boys run off to tell Charlie about how so-and-so crossed a white line drawn on a car park.


Ricc had lost control of the car. Seb saved the both of them with his lightning reactions and intelligence.


Bring back gravel traps on some corners. Poor driving should be penalised on track instead of by stewards during or after races. With more track confines it will teach the over zealous some manners!


I don’t Verstappen made any new fans on Sunday. But I do think he lost a lot. For me, it’s less about the move and more for his extremely arrogant words afterwards.


Well maybe he is a bit young but his words are completely correct. Vettel should go back to school. And let’s look at what happened. VET trief to overtake VES, he failed and VES locked up and cut the grass. As did several other driver during the race with no penalty what so ever.
Nothing wrong there. VET did not even passed Ves car.


Vettel sent a letter of excuses to FIA as well. Hope it was inside a card from Never Stay Dead!


IF not for Ves, Vet and Ric inconsistent stewarding the race was a huge bore.
It’s about time time Vet gave Charlie the finger!
How many laps and how long did they feature Perez trying to overtake Massa.


never mind the penalty there ars thousands of young f1 fans around the world this outburst of foul language is not acceptable from someone who young fans look upto .It has been to regular recently come on ferrari stand up and be counted we cannot have children who are fans for life subjected to this abbuse come on sergio show respect to your young fans make an example sack this foul mouthed german if you dont you just condone what he says.


I don’t get Vettels penalty at all. Surely there was more than a car widths room during the entire overtaking manoeuvre. DC wasn’t forced off the track like Max’s overtake victims have to. Plus DC was struggling to control his cars direction. I thought it was just hard but fair racing.


the correct course of action here was to punish no one, it’s racing


There is an answer to all rhe arguments about leaving the track.

The technology already exists in which cars can be slowed down once they leave the track limits. Im surr the brains of F1 can come up with a solution which reducrs engine power once all 4 wheels leave the track. It would define the track, stop drivers gaining an advantage from cutting a corner all while not having them stuck in gravel traps and the need or safety cars


You shouldn’t be able to leave the track cut a corner and gain an advantage.
Lets not leave it up to drivers/teams/race director to issue a redress/ hand position back, its a flawed system that is no where near consistent. (As seen)

Place gravel traps in such positions, where if you run wide/off track you will be at a automatic disadvantage.

These are apparently the best drivers in the world, if you out brake yourself you will end up in a gravel trap.

If there were a gravel trap at that 1st corner the outcome would be massively different. HAM would of had to make the corner, which would have dropped him at least a few places, VES same, VET and RIC would have got past.
The drivers are not dumb, they know if they make a mistake, they can cut the corner, and play the penalty lotto.

The track designers, and FIA, (because they approve on where to race) are at fault for allowing these tracks with low/zero risk corner cutting situations.
It grinds my gears when a driver can make a mistake (miss a braking marker/lock up), run wide, outside track limits and all they have to do is ensure they are no further in front than they were before the corner.
YOU MADE A DRIVING ERROR AND LEFT COURSE LIMITS, why should you maintain your gap to the car behind?

Bring back the gravel trap!!!



Might make an interesting light-hearted article to discuss who holds the record for the most “re-awarded” podium in an F1 race.

DR being the 3rd driver to claim 3rd on the weekend must be getting up there!


What a joke of a ‘sport’ this has become. After this race and the following controversy I am almost done paying to enjoy this sport. Vettel showed no class, but neither would have I. The officiating in these races is such a joke with no consistency. I can see this sport coughing, spluttering, and dying within the next decade.


Had Max given the position to Vettel, the scenario with Daniel Ric.. might have never happened. I guess we need to look into that angle as well and taking that perspective, Vettel doesn’t deserve a penalty.


I’ve read a lot of the comments about who should and shouldn’t have received penalties, so to me it just goes to show that the stewarding process is broken. The FIA clarified a rule but didn’t give a punishment, it’s all discretionary and hence the comments.


A quick check of the results show L Hamilton as the winner and S Vettel was 5th. 500 gripes ain’t gonna change it.


My $0.02:

Right decision to penalise Verstappen, wrong decision to penalise Vettel.

Max gained a lasting advantage of several car lengths by cutting the course. This can’t really be argued against. The slight fly in the ointment is that Seb was never ahead or even alongside – why should Max have to give up the position when he never lost it in the first place? But had he attempted to make turn 2 rather than going straight across the grass (he probably could have made it), he would certainly have lost the place, and I think that’s the key point. He saved his position after his own mistake by cutting two corners.

It’s also not really comparable to either Hamilton or Rosberg’s trips across there; Hamilton because he was pegged back immediately by the safety car so there was no lasting advantage gained, and Rosberg because he didn’t end up there through a mistake of his own – rather he was barged out there (by Verstappen no less) and had no option. Making the corner would have meant slowing to a crawl and with the field bunched up behind that would have been suicidal.

As for Ricciardo on Vettel, baffled by that one. I’ve watched it again and again and I can’t see the supposed move under braking that Seb made. The head-on angle is the best I think – Seb clearly straightens up and continues down the centre of the track but if anything, Daniel seems to move outwards towards him under braking, rather than the other way round. There’s also about 3 car widths between Daniel and the inside edge of the circuit, so it’s not as if he’s being crowded off the track. Daniel also missed the apex by miles, so he was a little fortunate not to just smash into the side of the Ferrari – fortunately Seb’s spatial awareness didn’t let him down, even if his temperament did. Daniel’s judgement on those kinds of moves is usually top notch but he got it wrong there IMO.

Vettel’s comments on the radio crossed a line in my view. With the adrenaline flowing, it’s one thing to voice your displeasure with another driver, even in derogatory terms (remember Montoya and Raikkonen at Spa in 2002?) but it’s quite another to take aim at the race director. That could land him in hot water – I’d expect a reprimand at least. If nothing else I think it’s indicative of the amount of pressure he’s feeling – this season has been pretty disastrous given the pre-season hype.


Thinking about it again, Lewis actually did gain a lasting advantage didn’t he – he maintained track position. You could argue that he probably would’ve won the race anyway given his pace advantage, but should he have had to work a bit harder for it?

My “3 car widths” comment was a bit exaggerated too but there was definitely still plenty of space for Daniel.


Was n’t Hamilton doing the same in turn 1 as Verstappen did?


The short answer to your question Jan is No, he wasn’t


The short answer to your question Jan is no, he wasn’t


I just realized that Max Verstappen is the youngest ever driver to finish 3th, 5th and 4th in one race!!! That’s worth some kind of celebration, no?


Talent of the century!


Any sport which doesnt apply the rules n regs in an unbiased,clear and unambiguous manner is the sporting equivilant of a banana republic.
F1 has been a banana republic for so long I don’t bother too much anymore.
Max Verstappens moves at Spa are case in point
He takes out 2 cars,but because its his home GP,no one even looked.
Waste of time watching banana sports


From what I saw Verstappen penalty = yes and Seb’s = definitely no, and I recall DC (for me the best TV pundit) thinking the same in his commentary. But whatever your opinion the post-race shenanigans with the podium places is a mockery, a total embarrassment. Everything should be decided before the guys get to the podium, and if Charlie can’t think that quickly he should go and do what Vettel suggested…


Its not only Charlie that needs to be told to f**k off. The fia are now the utlimate nanny governing body


the poll isnt very fair. like max said, vettel cant do it as he does

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