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Lewis Hamilton wins in Austria after last lap collision with Nico Rosberg
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Austrian Grand Prix 2016
Posted By: Alex Kalinauckas  |  03 Jul 2016   |  3:12 pm GMT  |  703 comments

Lewis Hamilton took a dramatic victory in the Austrian Grand Prix after a last lap collision with his Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg.

The championship leader had led at the start of lap 71 at the Red Bull Ring, but Hamilton got much better drive out of Turn 1 and pulled alongside Rosberg as they approached the uphill Turn 2.

Nico Rosberg

Both Mercedes drivers braked extremely late, but Rosberg forced Hamilton wide and the pair made contact at the edge of the track.

As Hamilton went across the run off area, Rosberg held onto the lead until his front wing disintegrated on the run to Turn 3. Hamilton moved ahead and went on to collect his third win in four races and his 46th Grand Prix win, and in the process claimed the 250th victory for British drivers competing in F1.

Earlier in the day, Hamilton had led away from pole position as his fellow front row starter Nico Hulkenberg fell back to fifth and Jenson Button eased his McLaren into second at Turn 1, ahead of Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.

Lewis Hamilton Austria

Hamilton pulled away from Button, who held Raikkonen at bay until lap seven, while Rosberg made his way up to fourth from sixth on the grid.

The German driver passed Button for third with a sweeping move at Turn 5 on lap eight, two laps before he came in for a set of soft tyres.

Up front, the gap between Hamilton and Raikkonen ebbed and flowed as the British driver was able to make his ultrasoft tyres last much longer than expected, while the supersofts on the Ferrari and Red Bull cars did not prove to be as much of an advantage as has been expected before the race.

Hamilton eventually pitted on lap 21 for a set of soft tyres and emerged behind Rosberg in fourth after the German driver had used his fresher tyres to set a series of fastest laps.

Kimi Raikkonen

Ferrari called Raikkonen in one lap later for his own soft rubber, but the Finn re-joined well adrift of Hamilton and behind both Red Bull drivers, who had discarded their supersoft tyres several laps earlier.

On lap 27, Sebastian Vettel led the race having risen from ninth on the grid. But the four times world champion, who turned 29 today, had been left out a long time on his supersofts and, as Rosberg and Hamilton were rapidly catching him, his left-rear tyre failed spectacularly as he sped down the pit straight.

The explosion pitched him into the pit wall and then back across the track, where he was fortunate to avoid being hit by Manor’s Pascal Werhlein, and into retirement.

The safety car came out for five laps as Vettel’s car and tyre debris were cleared away before the race restarted on lap 32.

Sebastian Vettel

Rosberg held Hamilton at bay and for a time it looked as if the German driver would attempt to complete a one-stop strategy in a bid to win his third successive race at the Spielberg track.

But when Hamilton pitted on lap 54, Rosberg came in one lap later and emerged still in the lead after a slow pitstop and messy out lap cost Hamilton time.

The pair stayed close as they made their way through traffic before the final lap collision cost Mercedes an easy 1-2 finish.

Speaking after the race, Hamilton, who became the first driver to surpass 2,000 career F1 points, said: “He made a mistake into Turn 1 and so I had the opportunity to go down the outside into Turn 2. I left a lot of room on the inside and I guess he locked up and crashed into me. I think he had a problem with his brakes potentially. I’m here to win – that’s all.”

Austrian Grand Prix 2016 podium

Max Verstappen was the main driver to benefit from that crash as he held on to claim second from Raikkonen despite running on soft tyres that were 56 laps old by the finish. It was the Dutch driver’s second F1 podium after his win in the Spanish Grand Prix earlier this season.

Rosberg limped home fourth with his front wing wedged underneath his car, but he was comfortably clear of Daniel Ricciardo in fifth. The German’s lead at the top of the championship is now down to 11 points over Hamilton – had he finished first, Rosberg would have been 31 points in front of his teammate.

Button did well to record his best finish of 2016 in sixth, one place in front of Romain Grosjean, who returned to the points for Haas F1 after four non-scores since the Russian Grand Prix.

Carlos Sainz rose from fifteenth on the grid to claim eighth, ahead of Williams’ Valtteri Bottas.

Pascal Wehrlein

Werhlein, who qualified a sensational 12th for Manor, came home in tenth to score the British team’s first points since Jules Bianchi memorably finished ninth at the 2014 Monaco Grand Prix. The German driver’s day had started somewhat embarrassingly when he lined up in the wrong spot on the grid and had to reverse shortly before the lights went out, but no penalty was applied during the race.

Esteban Gutierrez ended up 11th for the third time this season for Haas F1, just ahead of Renault’s Jolyon Palmer and Sauber’s Felipe Nasr.

Kevin Magnussen finished 14th after a five-second penalty for weaving in his attempts to keep Wehrlein behind early in the race dropped him down the order.

Marcus Ericsson and Rio Haryanto brought up the rear of the field as a number of cars retired late on.

Sergio Perez

Force India’s Sergio Perez crashed into the barriers at Turn 3 on the final lap, seconds before the Mercedes scrap appeared on the scene, while Fernando Alonso, Hulkenberg and Felipe Massa all came into their garages in the closing stages.

Daniil Kvyat’s race never really got going after he started his Toro Rosso from the pitlane following his huge crash in qualifying, as he pulled off to retire at the exit of Turn 1 on lap three.

Austrian Grand Prix results:

1 Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes 1h27m38.107s
2 Max Verstappen, Red Bull +5.719s
3 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari +6.024s
4 Nico Rosberg, Mercedes +16.710s
5 Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull +30.981s
6 Jenson Button, McLaren +37.706s
7 Romain Grosjean, Haas +44.668s
8 Carlos Sainz, Toro Rosso +47.400s
9 Valtteri Bottas, Williams +1 Lap
10 Pascal Wehrlein, Manor +1 Lap
11 Esteban Gutierrez, Haas +1 Lap
12 Jolyon Palmer, Renault +1 Lap
13 Felipe Nasr, Sauber +1 Lap
14 Kevin Magnussen, Renault +1 Lap
15 Marcus Ericsson, Sauber +1 Lap
16 Rio Haryanto, Manor +1 Lap
17 Sergio Perez, Force India +2 Laps
Fernando Alonso, McLaren Retired
Nico Hulkenberg, Force India Retired
Felipe Massa, Williams Retired
Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari Retired
Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso Retired

What did you make of the Austrian Grand Prix? Leave your thoughts in the comment section below, or head over to the JAonF1 Facebook page for more discussion.

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703 comments

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1

100% Rosbergs fault on the last lap - ha hardy ha, say I. We see this every time when Rosberg try's to be aggressive - he just hasn't got the skills necessary for hard but fair wheel to wheel battles and invariably it ends with carbon fibre flying all of the place.
The only pity is that Rosberg still got 4th. I thought both Toto and Niki were more than a bit evasive in the post race interviews - didn't ring true what either of them were saying to me. Having said all of that, what were Mercedes thinking with their strategy, allowing Rosberg to gain track position in the first place - completely outrageous. I should think the Internet would have melted if Rosberg had gone on to take the win. Justice has been done and we got the right result - 11 points only now separating Hamilton and Rosberg . Get in there Lewis ??✌

2

Whil I totally agree on Nico's mistake and all, don't agree on poor strategy for Lewis. Lewis was on 1 stop whil Nico on 2, the safety car I fact took the 5 sec advantage for Nico off and made a second stint for Lewis easier. The problem was on 1. Post the safety car, Lewis tried staying with Nico there by not running his race and 2. Merc did give Lewis the advantage at the second round by pitting him first - but Lewis made a mistake in his out lap - also, on longer stop for Lewis, I'll like to know if Lewis did stop accurately - James - can you check?

So, don't blame the strategy!

3

Let's wait for the JA verdict in the strategy report tomorrow .

4

Agree completely. Rosberg needs to take lessons from young Verstappen in the art of defensive driving, instead of using his car like a battering ram. Very poor and amateurish driving, which tainted what was actually a solid performance up until that point. He was very lucky not to be punished more harshly.

5

You see I don't care for either driver and i hate Mercedes for the way they use the rules to obtain an advantage that wouldn't be there if we had a fair playing field. Yet we don't due to terrible engine regs.

So as I peace it together it was more hamitons fault than Rossbergs. Hammer time turned into Rossy, his front wheels turned almost 45 degrees to initiate the contact. As per the rules he should have backed off when fe saw he didn't have position. He stated that he knew Rossy had breaking problems that was why Rosebberg was slowing and his harvesting light was on. As to Roseberg I blame him for not putting Hamilton into the wall to let him know that as in Spain he wasn't going to let Hamilton bully him.

Hamilton want it both ways he and many of his fans want Rosberg to pull over and let him pass but when Hamilton cuts the chicane in Monaco and slmms the door on Ricciardo in the next corner like Rosberg did today it's great racing.

The true fault was on the team for not issuing team orders as soon as Rosberg lost his break by wire in passive mode. With Hamilton not being threatened they should have held in place.

As far as the track position earlier in the race without seeing all the data or being privy to all the conversations about strategy that's a tough call. Maybe you guys with better coverage than we get here in the states get more info but for me I felt like they were letting Hamilton run much like he did in Monaco as long as he wanted and this time it didn't work out.

6

" As per the rules he should have backed off when fe saw he didn't have position"

As they arrive to the corner, HAM was in front (as the stewards state in their decision), so he was entitled to have enough "race room". ROS choose to cut HAM and don't give him enough space to make the corner. Tough luck!

Another reason for ROS to be punished: he was aware of his braking issues so he should take the necessary actions to deal with it... specially avoid colisions with other contenders. Tough luck!

[Mod] Mercedes... I guess you can only like Ferrari as almost any other team is or has been linked to Mercedes. You [Mod] Mercedes and Hamilton, we got that. You should be able to put your feelings aside and give a fair opinion without ignoring the rules. Pathetic!

7

i hate Mercedes for the way they use the rules to obtain an advantage that wouldn't be there if we had a fair playing field

Are you new to F1? Because if you hate that about Mercedes I don't think there is a team on the grid that you can like, sorry it's the aim of the game all of the teams are doing it.
As for your analysis of the crash I think you are suffering from cognitative disodence. You don't like Hamilton therefore you are ignoring the facts and trying to find a way to blame the crash on him

8

I appreciate that you are in favor of the current engine regs because they help your guy. I don't like them because it stifles competition. I want to see the best drivers in the best machinery on the best circuits. Not a team so dominance due to artificial influence that they could through Pastor Maldano and Max Chilton in there cars and still win the WEC and WDC.

Lewis is obviously the most talented of the two drivers and has the killer instinct that Rosberg seems to lack. I think had the shoe been on the other foot Rosberg had turned into Hamiton Hamilton would have put Rosberg into the wall and rightfully so. Not necessarily legal but lots of things aren't always legal. Like heating up your axle and brakes yo give the FIA an artificially high reading on air pressures.

9

@mhilgtx
Watch the replays, he started to turn in to follow the outside of the track limits. Please check forst before posting.

10

I just watched it again and Hamilton again turned right into Rosberg. He could have and should have avoided contact. Rosberg should have turned earlier he had the the defense made as I think I said above I blame them both but the team the most. As far as the penalty the stewards handed out, it seems they didn't think much of it either since the penalty had no affect on the outcome of the race. At least that is what the bbc report I just read said.

Further more my point is that Hamiton fans tend to be a little one sided when crying fowl on Rosberg but excusing Hamilton in Monaco.

11

So why did Rosberg get slapped with a penalty? The thing about a turn is that uv got to turn, I suppose it's one of the reasons it's called turn

12

Thank you for replying - took the words (comments) right out of my mouth 🙂

13

This collision was the result of what JA wrote here about Nico finding the champion' ruthlessness. lol. I wish he had some finesse.
Mercedes have their hands on the scales for Nico to win this year's championship. Why on earth would Toto say today's incident it's a no fault accident and Lauda slamming Lewis after both shunted out out a few weeks back? I wish professional journalists would do due diligence here, but perhaps it's too much to ask.

14

Thing is Nico does not realize that all he needs is win "some" races not all of them. Had he played fair, he'd be second instead of 4th. He's lucky this all happened on the last lap. He can't play the long games, maybe that's because like I suspect Toto and Nikki clearly want him to win it this year, and Nico is doing all he can to keep Lewis behind even if that means colliding.

15

Personally I don't believe that Mercedes are attempting to manufacture a WDC for Rosberg - it's just been unlucky or lucky, depending on who your preferred driver is. As Mrs C63 pointed out to me, both Toto and Niki would have been aware that Rosberg had an appointment with the Stewards by the time they were interviewed and their replies were for the Stewards benefit as much as the TV crews - they can hardly stand in front of a camera and say 'yep, Nico 100% at fault there' and then an hour later try and defend him. On reflection I think she has a point and might be right 🙂

16

A good spot by mrs C63 there, Toto seemed a bit belligerent to me when Ted was questioning him about the incident, he also really didn't want to talk about Lewis' poor strategy. Did you notice that he said they couldn't tell Nico about his brake by wire issue? This sounded a bit unlikely to me, surely they can tell a driver his brakes aren't going to work when he presses the pedal?!

17

I was pretty certain that brake-related messages were absolutely allowed by the current radio restrictions.

18

I'd read that Mercedes were specifically told they could NOT tell Nico about the brakes issue. Apparently, Force India was also not allowed to tell Perez. Seems ridiculous to me. Some argument was made that if they change the rules to allow messages on brakes being low, because it's a safety thing, that people would start to abuse the "safety" label and provide other messages. I don't see how, though, if you just add a provision to alert the drivers if brakes are at say 10% or less.

19

I don't know for definite whether messages relating to brake issues are allowed - but I thought the teams could discuss/warn drivers if there was a reliability issue, e.g. they told Ham to be careful of the kerbs as the suspension loads were reaching a critical point. So I would have thought 'hey Nico your brakes are about to fail' would have been ok. As I said above, having reflected on the matter, I feel the slightly odd comments from both Toto and Niki were most likely because they were trying to tread a fine line between not blaming Rosberg and at the same time not apportioning blame on Hamilton (which clearly would have been unjustified). I'm quite sure that behind closed doors the team knows what's what and they are only too well aware of the respective strengths and weakness's of their two drivers. This is reflected in the salaries they pay and also the 1 year only deal which appears to be all that's on offer for Rosberg.

20

Well Lewis was to blame too from Toto and Nikki's point of view. Nico slowed down considerably alrdy after the 1st corner. If lewis showed some of his maturity by not attacking straight away at the next corner but the next few after that, the collision would have been avoided. That was why toto was gutted by both of the drivers.
Overall Lewis is still like the same rookie when he first came out with Mclaren. He could have waited to win both the race and the management.

21

@Kevin Shiel
He could have waited to win both the race and the management....

First of all, Rosberg didn't slow after turn 1 -he lost momentum as he made a mistake on corner entry which meant his exit was compromised. And secondly, if Hamilton had waited as you suggest - where exactly would he have overtaken Rosberg? Turn 3 was under yellows and that would have been his only other opportunity if he didn't get the job done at turn 2. The only reason he got away with overtaking Rosberg when/where he did was because Rosbergs car was damaged - if he had overtaken Rosberg into turn 3 and Rosberg's car was undamaged he would have been in bother (quite rightly) with the stewards. I know these rather unfortunate facts don't fit with the scenario which you have invented, but there you go - I guess you'll just have to suck it up.
With regard to your suggestion that Hamilton is still the same rookie - ROFLMAO.

22

C63, sad as I am I just watched the race again, listening to Niki and Toto speak after the race, Niki does actually say that he thought it was Nico's fault, but Toto's words are very interesting. Ted Kravitz asks Toto about the crash and gets nowhere so changes tack and asks about the strategy instead;
Ted, "you gave Lewis a chance to undercut on the second stops, but then you brought Nico in straightaway the lap after, so Lewis couldn't convert and use the undercut."
Toto, "No you are getting things wrong here Ted".(nods head and walks away)
Ted, "Alright we will look at it again."
A bit of a porky pie in there.....

23

C63, should Rosberg sign a one year deal? I'm guessing they want to give Pascal another year to gain experience and then put him in Nico's seat, but what's in it for Rosberg? Another drubbing at Lewis' hands? Doesn't sound very appealing to me.
P.S Young Wehrlein seriously impressive on Sunday, don't you think?

24

@timw
My thoughts exactly?

25

I suspect you are right that the idea is to promote Pascal at the end of next season. If my maths are correct that would still leave a year to run on Hamilton's contract. I wouldn't imagine they would want Hamilton and Rosberg both out of contract at the same time and I'm guessing that is the sticking point as Rosberg and his team can see the writing on the wall and are trying to skupper Merc's plans. Whether Rosberg would want another year being beaten by Hamilton - I guess he is pretty used to it by now as he has been trailing in Hamilton's wake since they were 14.
As for Wehrlein's performance - I thought he was impressive this weekend. Not just in the car but when he was interviewed afterwards - he was very self assured, not cocky, just self assured.

26
Phillip Harben

That's a very valid point, well raised Mrs C63! I hadn't thought of that and it makes all the sense in the world.

However, the conspiracy theorist in me likes to point out - what are the chances of Lewis having TWO slow pit stops when Nico was just behind him on both occasions? He hit his marks perfectly, no overrrun, just a wheel not going on cleanly.

If the pit stops had been timely and not 4.8 seconds each, compared with Nico's 2.8 seconds each (approx) the whole collision is moot and LH is four seconds down the road at that stage in the race.

*strokes chin*

27

@Phillip
Firstly Hams stops weren't both as slow as you state. There was a 1.07 second difference between Ham and Ros on the 2nd stop. Don't forget that Ham made a bad mistake on his outlap too so part of the issue was him which then added to that 1.07sec gap.
Secondly, its a team sport, there was a mechanic struggling with the tyre on Hams stop that caused the extra second. There are 1300 people who work at Merc, can you possibly imagine being "that guy who ***ed up" in the pits (because the boss told you to) and being able to show your face the next day???? Those pit crews take immense pride in what they do, what you suggest makes no sense.
Get real.

28

Phillip, I have been resisting the conspiracy theory all season, but sometimes Mercedes do make it difficult. I'm going with simple bad luck on the stops, and perhaps an over eagerness to help Nico with the strategy. I fully understand the reasoning for Nico's early stop, and why they left Lewis out so long, the only thing that still bothers me a bit was the single lap between the two drivers at the end. Nico only had superofts left which were marginal to get to the end, the tyres he was on seemed in reasonable shape, wouldn't it have been better for him to stay out for a few more laps? It would have meant he had no chance of winning, but really he shouldn't have had any chance anyway.

29

really he shouldn't have had any chance anyway....

My thoughts exactly. The only reason Rosberg was in front was because they left Hamilton out on ultras for ages, presumably because he was maintaining a fairly constant gap to Raikonnen - all the while, though, Rosberg was taking huge chunks out of Hamiltons lead. That's where the damage was done. They could easily have brought Hamilton in a couple of laps earlier and he would have retained track position. I'm not suggesting they did it on purpose as things sort of evolved but it would have been completely unjust if Rosberg had taken the win due to a superior strategy when he started the race behind Hamilton.

30

I do agree with th Mrs. That's why they quickly came out and said nico had a brake problem but from the footage we saw I tend to disagree. However, here's a question, how did nico manage to slow the car down enough without any lock up and still maintain the inside line at high speed?

31

how did nico manage to slow the car down ...,

Driving into the side of Hamilton must have helped ?

32

C63, but according to Nico not only was he in full control at all times, but actually the only reason he ran to the edge of the circuit and failed to leave any room for Lewis was because he was airborne after the collision. More porky pies, as you say the collision would have if anything kept him away from the extreme edge.

33

Airborne ???? Does he imagine that, either everyone is blind or that they don't have access to the numerous VT's of the incident. It's patently obvious what happened and I'd respect him more if he just admitted it. All this fluffing and shuffling of feet is doing is making him look ridiculous.

34

C63, the interview in the media pen is well worth finding. He looks about as uncomfortable as it's possible to be, and then says something along the lines of "it may look like I didn't leave him any room, but that is only because I was airborne after the collision". he is really squirming when he says it, very funny.....

35

I want to know why Toto said "Nico had a brake problem" and "Nico was attempting to brake late"-- those two statements to me seem to be contradictory.

36

Also, by Rosberg own admission... he was completely understand control going into the corner, which makes what he did either deliberate, or just plain clumsy.

37

Steward's verdict.
“Having taken note of the extensive evidence given by both drivers and the video and telemetry data, it was apparent that Car 44 (HAM) was in front of Car 6 (ROS) – i.e. more than fully alongside – and that the driver of Car 44 could have clearly made the turn (T2) on the track, if not for the resultant collision. Car 6 did not allow Car 44 “racing room” and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision.”

Should have been more than a 10 second penalty and 2 penalty points, though.

38

Should have been more....

Normally the stewards are reluctant to get involved in 'blue on blue' incidents. So the fact they felt the need to on this occasion shows how clearly Rosberg was to blame (and how totally out of order he was). Having said that I doubt they wanted to effect the WDC standings with their punishment - can you imagine if they had demoted Rosberg with a time penalty and later in the season he had lost by the same amount? What they have done is 'mark his card' and if he does something similar again then he will be properly in the mire - a bit like a player getting yellow carded.

39

C63, Brundle also made the point that the FIA notification only mentioned car6, unusual not to have both cars named in a collision investigation.

40

exactly right - they didn't even investigate Hamilton. He was asked for his version of events but he wasn't investigated. I can't believe Rosberg continues to protest his innocence !

41

C63, saying he respects the steward's decision, but then in the same breath saying "it sucks to be blamed" doesn't really go together does it? I feel a Massa like attitude that he has never done anything wrong will lead to Massa like crashes throughout his career.

42

Agree with you it was 100% Ros fault. Incredibly clumsy and a cheap riposte to other real or imagined slights, that rightly backfired on him.
I can't agree with your wish that Ros hadn't had any points for two reasons.
Ros was my dotd until the last lap idiocy
I want a very close championship so anything that keeps it close is good in my view.
All in all , well done Ham, kept his cool when it must have been very easy to lose your rag considering the position you found yourself in.

43

I can't agree with your wish that Ros hadn't had any points for two reasons....

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our views - I just felt (still do) that had Rosberg DNF'd following his ill advised and clumsy manoeuvre that it would have been poetic justice - he was after all attempting to take Hamilton out of the race - and he would have metaphorically been hoist with his own petard.

44

What do you mean "get in there Lewis?" He already won. What's he getting into? I've heard Steve Matchett say stuff like that, but that's during the race. What does your comment mean given the fact the race is already over? Just thinking out loud.

45

Franklin can you understand it's a British saying. "Get in There !!".
We say it a lot. Not just The Comedian "Stephen Merchant".
You are being too pedantic.
It's a well known statement like
"Go On My Son Get In There !"
"Well Done Mate Nice One !"

46

This has been expained in a previous comment in another article. Its a british saying! Meaning well done old chap, great win/goal/pass/try/wicket. Nobodies trying to annoy you... So let it go. Good lad. GET IN THERE LEWIS!!!!!

47

@Franklin.. after your message, I actually googled the phrase to understand what it means. Often we all pick up phrases and make our own assumptions about what they mean based on the context we first found them. Alas, that leads to mis- interpretation often!

I personally always had imagined "get in there..someone" implied.. "that WAS Awesome" 😀

48

You sound extremely sour. Is it because Lewis won??

49

@Franklin
I've already explained the meaning of that expression , in addition so did several other posters . If you still feel that you don't understand then try Google but please don't keep asking me ?

50

The Rosberg gaining track position might seem outrageous but it wasn't at the time as they were going for a one stop. This is what Vettel was doing (and what Verstappen pulled off).

It became an issue when they thought, or realised, it wasn't going to work and wanted to pit Hamilton again. Perhaps this was due to fears of a tyre failure like Vettel, or that Rosberg's two stop plan pace had been stronger than expected?

How far behind Hamilton was Verstappen before Lewis pitted? That's important because Rosberg was able to easily pass the one stopping Verstappen, so we need to see whether it was likely he would have caught Hamilton if Lewis had stuck to his one stopper. We know what the relative race pace was now so this can be analysed. If Rosberg wouldn't have caught Hamilton then the team should have kept Hamilton on his one stop, in which case the losing of track position early on was a non-issue and all part of their plan.

So to summarise, Hamilton losing track position early on was OK given the one stop plan. Now, you could say, why risk the one stop and not just mirror Rosberg's two stop to stay ahead of him? The reason is because one, the team were worried about Ferrari beating them on their one stop, and two, I believe they thought at the time that one stop was quicker (stay out front in clear air, etc). Remember also the teams had little data to go on due to all the changing weather conditions throughout the weekend.

51

A good, reasoned summary! I'm sure it's not deliberate but Mercedes' strategy calls all worked in Rosberg's favour today. However you have to also factor in that Nico had to start from P6 through no fault of his own, so it's swings and roundabouts. It gave us a damn good race at the end of the day!

52

start from P6 through no fault of his own...

I would take issue with that statement - the gearbox penalty came about because he broke his suspension driving over the kerbs. No one made him do that - my point being that it wasn't just some random failure. Additionally he was second in quali so either way up, it would be very unfair of Mercedes to favour Rosberg with a strategy which put him in front his pole sitter team-mate. I'm not saying they set out to do that on purpose and it was partially circumstances which led to Rosberg gaining track position. But whichever way you cut it, Hamilton's strategy was inferior to Rosberg's.

53

If they'd left him on his one stop it might not have been inferior. The real question is why they changed it. It appears like they panicked. I wonder if it perhaps it was related to Vettel's blow out.

I think it's a bit unfair to apportion too much blame on the gear box penalty. It happened to many drivers and was an unforeseen issue with the natural frequency of the carbon wishbones resonating with the input response from those kerbs. And we don't know the relative strengths, and current fatigue lives of each car's suspension. Manufacturing wise there is a variance in the material and production process, so things are not 100% equal across every car. Also, he didn't drive particularly aggressively over the kerb in practice just before the suspension broke. So it's very nitpicky to blame the drivers for those incidents, when they should never have happened in the first place.

54

I think it's a bit unfair to apportion too much blame...

To be fair to Rosberg I am not saying he was entirely responsible for the suspension failure. But his driving, and where he chose to put the wheels of his car, both contributed to the damage - can you imagine the uproar if it had been Hamilton's suspension which had broken? There would have been 500+ comments all holding the event up as proof positive that he is too hard on his equipment.

55

@ C63.. Absolutely correct on Mercedes giving track position to Nico.
They failed to bring Lewis into the pits when he had more than enough time to cover Nico. Then inexplicably had a slow stop with left rear tire change and the choice of tire for the sprint to the end.
Mercedes tried failed to manufacture a win for Nico but unwittingly unleashed the Tiger in Lewis.

56

Lewis probably would have stayed ahead after the 2nd stops (they gave him the chance to undercut) but he went wide (turn 2 I believe, might be wrong) which cost him.

57

Whoops, best comment. PERIOD.

58

I agree C63 100%
Rosberg cannot handle a dogfight .
He was not on the racing line he made his mistake and paid for it.
Pathetic booing from spectators but it's Silverstone next so British Fans and no booing.
Well Done Lewis fought and got the win.
Congrats to Button for 6th he'll be off to Williams for a last Hurrah.
Can't wait for Silverstone weekend and the weather looks great for next weekend. Come On The Brits ?

59

I have suddenly found myself thinking JB would fit well at Ferrari!!!
How about that? ;D

60

It does sometimes seem that way indeed. I think Rosberg is a very good and fast racer, but in clean air. It just seems too often that when he's mired in traffic, or racing wheel to wheel, he doesn't perform well. Now, I could be wrong, but the only time I remember putting up a good fight was in Bahrain 2014. Hamilton may not be as precise of a driver, and just muscles the car around, but he knows how to race closely. Now, even that statement is not completely true, regarding just throwing the car around with brute force, because we've seen him be ever so gentle on his tires compared to others.

However, your statement about booing is laughable. So now we can't boo at a driver we don't like? Now, I would never boo Hamilton, because I like him, but the same applies to other drivers. Why is cheering okay, but not booing? Should we just cheer or be quiet for everyone? Should we not have favorites and least favorites? Booing shows passion. Booing is okay, and as a sportsman, you deal with it. Do you think NBA or NFL players cry when they or their teams are booed in opponents stadiums? Here's what would not be okay for a driver you don't like: wishing they crashed or were injured. That would not be okay at all. But simply booing? [Mod]. All that booing says is "I didn't want you to win" or "I didn't like how you raced".

61

I do not like booing at all. I believe in good sportsmanship. I don't care what sport it is or who the culprit is I do not like booing and think it is a poor way to show your passion but I am British and believe in silly things like that, I'll watch snooker where the competitors call fouls on themselves and applied their opponents when they play a good shot.

62

Booing is just rude and low-life.

63

Booing and cheering are exact opposites and it is well understood. However Booing Lewis as if it is his mistake when the replays were very clearly showing Nicos fault says a lot about the intelligence of the Bowers.

64

Wouldn't that be Bauers? Or are you talking about the Max supporters?

65
Serrated Edge

If Jenson was in the Mercedes he would be doing a far better job than Rosberg.
Wolff and Lauda should give it serious consideration, two driver0 in JB and Hamilton fighting it out at the front without crashing into each other every few races!

66

Lol Button just cannot touch Lewis on Qualifying. The fact that Ros can, is the only reason Ros is still competing.

67

the collisions make it more exciting.
rosberg should keep it up..

68
Tornillo Amarillo

DRAMATIC! I'm 100% behind HAMILTON!

Toto mention "brainless", "stupid", on TV, but he did not mention "Nico" there... in what was he thinking?

69

Yep Rosberg deserves a huge penalty.
Let's get Button up to 5th and drop Rosberg for driving a damaged car around the circuit.

70

Nico had damaged/tangling bargeboard or sidepod deflector for half of the race.
If he gets a panalty for driving a damaged car around, it should be for this.

71

that 10s penalty will stop rosberg from repeating it..

72

rosberg got a 10s penalty!

73

As a Hamilton fan....
How was Rosberg driving that car around any worse than the numerous times drivers run almost a whole lap with their front wing detached and under the car without ever getting a penalty?

74

He left it strewn across the track.

75

I think it's the fact he drove past the pits. You are meant to try and get back to the pits safely.

But come on, no one can moan he kept going when it was the last lap. Some rules really are stupid.

76

@Franklin.. My wild guess would be.. Since Rosberg Claimed he bumped into Lewis because he had severe BRAKE ISSUES.. enough to bump off another car right off the road..

1.Dangerously bad brake condition
2. No front end aero working without wing
3. Chance that the WING could have actually gone UNDER FRONT AXLE (like Kimi's in monaco) meaning Nico would just have his fading puny sized REAR BRAKES ONLY to control the vehicle

The above three makes a convincing argument for pulling over on safety grounds. If the brakes were not an issue really, it wouldn't be expected bumping a competitor off the track in such amateur style in the first place!

77
Phillip Harben

"1. No front end aero working without wing"

His wing was fine until he ran into LH. 🙂

As DC said, there was no lock-up, no puff of smoke and his wheels rotated all the way into the accident. He wasn't on the brakes in a significant way. Nor steering wheel apparently!

I agree with you on the other points.

78

I agree, I certainly did not see the issue with Rosberg continuing, as you say many have done the same, I would have been surprised if he had been penalised for that and was glad he wasn't. If the complete wing had been trapped under the car then perhaps it would be different as that can be dangerous but it seemed that the broken parts quickly came away and just left him with a damaged front.

79

reprimand.

80
Tornillo Amarillo

Nico ROS, Nico HULK, VETTEL, Toto = zero

WHERLEIN = 1

81

Having watched the replay about 20 times in slow-mo, and seen the stewards decision, I have to conclude that if Jenson Button was my driver of the day, Nico Rosberg was wally of the weekend. The most inept piece of sporting activity since...............well Harry Kane's absolutely useless free kick against Iceland actually.

82

Right at 2 laps before finish I had a thought - "Well done, Nico, fair and square". 1.5 laps later he smashes into Lewis in a Senna\Prost style.
I have never thought anything good about Senna in these collisions and I do not think good of Nico. It was stupid and just not right.
If he is punished, he can only blame himself.
I also don't believe such collisions strengthen anyone's position at new contract negotiations.

Congratulations to Lewis!

83

I can't quite believe what I saw out there today, Hamilton was just totally thrown under the bus by his own team out there today compared to Rosberg. There was never a need to give Rosberg track position at any stage, and no advantage to Hamilton to do so. They could have stopped him 3-4 laps earlier at the start quite easily and maintained track position. The clash was unfortunate, you never like to see races won like that, but it was Nico's fault, and Mercedes brought it upon themselves by (in Ricciardo's terms) putting Lewis into a race he didn't need to be in. I'm glad Lewis won otherwise I would be amazingly salty.

Honourable mentions for Button and Wehrlein, shame we didn't see more of them.

84

What I don't understand is this
Rosberg stopped on lap 10, Hamilton on lap 21 (5 laps after Verstappen and 1 before Raikkonen who both went to the end without stopping again) Rosberg was pushing. It was pretty clear that he was two stopping
Hamilton looked like he was one stopping
Yet they pitted Hamilton a lap 54 and Rosberg on 55, so Nico did 45 harder laps and Lewis 33 gentler laps on those tyres. Why did they stop Lewis at all ?
Watching the race here, my daughter who's an unshakable Lewis fan said "Not sure how I feel about that", but then we saw the replay with Lewis going as wide as he can and Nico seems to make no attempt to turn in. As if he was watching Lewis and not the corner. The Stewards reviewed it and he got a penalty, which didn't change the result. I think since he lost two extra places as a result of the accident, and the injured party (HAM) got the win, I think justice is served.

Good news for Wehrlein. A moment to remember Jules Bianchi who scored the only previous point for that team too.

85

How the hell was Lewis thrown under the bus by his team? Are people's memories so foggy that they forget that Merc gave Lewis the undercut at the final stop. He didn't manage to gain track position over Nico because he botched his outlap, running wide at T2. The team then said on the radio, rather disheartened, "Ok, well we'll have to do it on track now Lewis." The team also gave Lewis the better tires to go to the end of the race. Final lap incident aside, Hamilton's tires were in much better shape In the closing laps.

You sound like a Tes Kravitz clone. Apparently Merc has to hand Lewis the win on a silver platter by asking Nico to kindly move aside, otherwise it's "throwing Lewis under the bus." C'mon man!

86

Twitch, Lewis lost track position to Nico because of the strategy, not because of any mistakes by Lewis, or any great driving from Nico. They gave Nico 16 laps in the first stint to undercut Lewis, and then returned the favour by giving Lewis ONE lap to undercut Nico in the final stint, all this after they botched both of Lewis' stops and aced both of Nico's. Lewis had the better tyres at the end of the race because he chose those tyres, and although they were better over the length of the stint, for undercutting Nico they were worse as they were harder than the ones Nico had fitted for that final stint. This tyre offset alone should have made Mercedes keep Nico out for a couple of laps after Lewis' final stop to ensure he didn't run out of tyres at the end. Like the man said, Mercedes threw Lewis under the bus, yes Lewis ran slightly wide on his out lap, but it wouldn't have made the difference between coming out ahead or behind. He should never have been behind in the first place.

87

In fact, let's look at some data shall we?

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=chart&gp=964&graf=3&dr1=Lewis%20Hamilton&dr2=Nico%20Rosberg

Around the second pit stops:

Hamilton

In lap: 1:12.496
Out lap: 1:27.968
Time stationary in pits: 3.5 (from TV feed)

Rosberg:
In lap: 1:13.459
Out lap: 1:26.456
Time stationary in pits: 2.3

Total Hamilton time (secs): 160.464
Total Rosberg time (secs): 159.915

Net gain to Rosberg: 0.549

Rosberg was over a second in front (1.028) before the pitstop sequence, and Hamilton closed right up before he pitted (his in lap was much faster than Rosberg) so he really couldn't have been any closer when he pitted. His out lap was much slower than Rosberg (1.462 second slower), but 1.2 seconds of that was due to him being stationary in the pit, not due to his error, which (although it got a lot of excited shouting) only seems to have cost him a few tenths. Given he had to make up a second through the whole process, it's clear that (i) even with a matching pitstop time and no lock-up from Hamilton it would have been very very close between the two of them, and (ii) the slow pitstop was much more of a contributing factor to him failing to undercut Rosberg than his mistake.

88

OK, let's assume that Hamilton lost out at the second round of pitstops 100% as a result of his error (it seems clear to me that even without his error he'd have come out second due to the pit stop differential to Rosberg and the lack of laps to make the undercut work, it's not like they were line astern coming out of the pits, but it's pretty irrelevant). The point is he should never have been in that situation in the first place, there was no need to give Nico track position under any circumstances. And as explained by James in the subsequent article, they didn't "[give] Lewis the better tyres", the tyres they had on for the final stint were the only tyres both drivers had available.

89

i watched the race.

90

After what happened today with Lewis, and the strategy calls made by the team today. He would have to really seriously doubt Mercedes commitment to him, regarding securing his fourth WDC.

+1 Honorable mention of Jenson and Pasqual.

91

I really believe Merc wants Rosberg to get this years title!

92

Can't exactly recall now, but I think I said earlier something in response to strategy choices of Hamilton not pitting earlier, why Ferrari didn't also cover off Rosberg undercutting Vettel. But of course Vettel was always behind Rosberg in the first stint so my remark is wrong haha!

But the general point was that they were doing one stop strategies. Whether that was wise or not is another matter, of course, but at least there's an understandable basis to why they did what they did.

93

Well not if they were planning a one stop race. It's like saying, why wasn't Vettel pitted earlier as he also lost track position to Rosberg? The fact they changed strategy mid race is what created the awkward situation. I'm sure James will analyse whether they needed to change plan! 🙂

After all Verstappen's one stopper beat Raikkonen's two stopper, and the Ferrari was the better car too. So one stopping wasn't a bad strategy.

I think some credit should be given to Rosberg's race pace that saw him in the lead (who was also actually disadvantaged by the Safety Car). But of course any credit one might have given to Rosberg gets totally thrown out the window by his crashing antics and failure to race wheel-to-wheel! Bad boy!

94

Rosberg was on a definite two stop and was using the tyre life on a shorter stint. Hamilton was still on a one stop and was saving the tyres to get to the end. Hamilton had better race pace when they swapped him to the two stop, better than Rosbergs pace on the super soft. Nothing special about Nicos race pace, and it certainly did not merit being gifted the win by the Merc stratagist.

95

But the 1 stop vs 2 stop argument doesn't really hold water either - if they were committing to a 1 stop then they should still have pitted to cover off Rosberg, there was no advantage in not doing so, as they could still then switch to a two stopper afterwards. What they did (and Ferrari did with Kimi) was neither betwixt or between - they weren't in clear ear, they gave Rosberg the chance to go to the end and maintain track position (and in Kimi's case Verstappen do the same, which they did). It was all totally avoidable if they didn't pit Rosberg, it's not like they were reacting to anyone. It was totally of their own making.

96

No, if you're on a 1 stop you have to stick to a certain pit window to ensure your second stint tyres will last to the end. Hamilton said he his first pit stop was on target so they were executing their one stop to plan at that point, and they still had a good advantage over Rosberg. It just happened that Rosberg had made more progress than perhaps they expected and he got ahead at that point. But it wasn't that big of a deal. He wasn't that far ahead. A two stopper would ideally be much further down the road at that stage. The problem is them switching to Hamilton to two stops. That's where the screwing up took place.

If someone is on a two stop vs a one, the two stopper is always likely to get ahead of the one stopper after the first round of stops. But the one stopper will regain the lead later. This is what would have happened if they hadn't switched Hamilton to a two stopper, which they clearly did late on. He'd have had a 24 second lead or so if they'd stuck to the original plan, which probably would have been sufficient.

It's true though that perhaps they could have pitted Hamilton earlier, like when Verstappen did and maybe covered Rosberg off while still aiming for the one stop, but I expect they didn't do so as didn't believe their tyres to last. So they didn't feel they could pit earlier to cover Rosberg. Instead they just focused on their one stop plan. The Red Bull is better on tyre life, remember.

The real issue is why they took Hamilton off the one stop late on. And regarding Raikkonen, he did comfortably beat Ricciardo on his two stopper (even though he lost track position earlier on). He lost out to Verstappen due to Red Bull doing a more aggressive one stopper. Again because the Red Bull could do so thanks to better tyre life (plus credit should be given to Verstappen for executing it as well).

97

Sorry to give such a negative reply to such a lengthy and well thought out post, but I still think it misses the point - even if they were still planning a one stop race at the point they brought Hamilton in first time around (which I still think is debatable), bringing him in behind Rosberg just didn't make sense no matter what way you look at it - it's not like they would have had to do an extra 10 laps on Hamilton's tyre, they only needed to bring him him 1-2 laps earlier (arguably 3 to be safe) - that doesn't change Hamilton's task materially at all, it meant he would have had to go from doing 49 laps on the softs to 52 laps, hardly enough to justify dropping him behind a race rival (whether on his team or not) - the time spent in Rosberg's dirty air alone would have reduced the tyre life.

Also, I don't particularly see any evidence that Red Bull has better tyre life, Hamilton made the ultra softs last longer than the Red Bulls made the super softs last.

And Kimi beat Ricciardo on pure pace, he overtook Ricciardo before his second pitstop, he would have beaten him whether he was on a one-or-two stop.

98

Well fair points, I accept that. Maybe Mercedes were simply happy for Rosberg to get ahead at that stage so as not to impede his two stop strategy and potentially having to ask Hamilton to move over so as not adversely affect the chance of a 1-2 (with the team still expecting Hamilton to win and regain track position with his one stop.

So maybe they didn't want the agro of having the two drivers fighting on different strategies (Hamilton looking after his tyres to get to the end and Rosberg wanting to get on with it, knowing he was to pit again. And that could be quite ironic considering how things turned out!

Of course this does rely on Mercedes acting as if Hamilton was one stopping, which for sure is debatable. It rings bells with Red Bull and Barcelona though and highlights how this 3 tyre set rule now has opened strategies and causes teams to fluff things. In hindsight Hamilton should have been put on a fast 2 stop and left to get on with it and win by 15 seconds or something!

99

thrown under the bus ....

It was mighty strange wasn't it. I guess if they were expecting to 2 stop Ros and Ham only once it made sense - with a late change of strategy to 2 stop them both . But it would have been terribly unfair if Ros had gone on to to take the win in that way. Ham was way in front of Ros when they pitted him and they just allowed Ros to eat into Hams lead before pitting him. The commentary team (apart from Ted) somewhat bizzarly tried to justify it .

100

Mighty strange?

How many times do I have to send you the memo?

101

Oh no - not another wild eyed conspiracy theory 😉

102

Yeah, wild eyed. Sure.

2 x Q3 issues for Lewis.
Car given to him in wrong mode.
Slow pitstops.
Weird strategies.
Was he given orders yet this year to hold back behind Nico?

Yeah...wild eyed, to you perhaps because your eyes are closed.

103

And conveniently... team orders are now on the table. Guess when they'll be implemented...

104

Sky commentary didn't really seem to pick up on how slow both of Hamiltons stops were either... Suspiciously slow, that is.

105

I didn't see the second stop, but they certainly did mention how long the first one took. It looked to me like Lewis hit his box at an odd angle

106

JC, Lewis was bang on his marks at both stops, they fumbled the tyre change both times.

107

Agreed. Merc the masters of their own undoing.

108

They did come out earlier for the pit stop for Hamilton but went back in. Maybe that one was a driver call or they were trying to force redbull to make a pitstop by selling them a dummy. Will wait to hear from others or James to answer that one

109

Yep Toto Wolf deserves a telling of by Mercedes he slamming the table was pathetic. Rosberg totally at fault. He tried to take out Lewis. Plus the dodgy pit stop the crew gave Lewis. They are trying hard to scupper his Championship. I'm glad he gave it the Last Grenade overtake and Won .
Well deserved victory for Lewis. Plus well done Button. Top Drawer ?
Vetted will be giving Pirelli the evil eye and hair dryer treatment for his tyre rapid deflation.

110

Don't agree about Toto. I expect the team boss to show some emotion when his two cars tangle like that. Whether he would have preferred Lewis to make a clean pass or Nico to hold on to the end, we can't know, but I'm as sure as I can be he'd have taken either to avoid contact. The team were heading for a 1-2 and they ended up with a 1-4.
I'm confused by the pit stop strategy, but it's been an article of faith for Mercedes that they get the maximum points for the team and whichever driver comes out ahead ... comes out ahead. They don't want anyone saying they're a British based team favouring a British driver or German owned team favouring a German driver.

111

I'm sure it's hyperbole, but if not, trust me, they are NOT "trying hard to scupper" his championship. It's a team. It doesn't matter which driver wins. A 1-2 is better than any other possible race result. That's what they go for. Just like you don't cost your team a victory because you only throw to one guy because you want him to get a touchdown. You throw to whoever is open. Mercedes is not going to purposefully worsen their position simply so one driver comes out ahead.

Also, similarly, the slamming of the table was NOT "pathetic". You know what it was? Emotion. Realizing that with less than 9 corners to go, they were set up for a 1-2 finish. And boom, just like that, that is taken away from you. You don't have the slightest inkling of how Formula 1 teams work if you think that they believe they're in an okay-enough position with a big lead in the champsionship that leaving points on the table is fine with them. Hint: it's never okay with them. You also likely don't have a competitive drive in you, and that's fine, not everyone does, if you think the team would be okay with a result other than 1-2. If you're a competitor, you're ALWAYS trying to win, or to get the maximum result possible. That's how you got to the top level. You didn't get there by saying "mehhh we totally could have done better, but it's okay, we'll try again next time".

112

So Mercedes want a 1-2, fine. Sort out the strategy (and reliability), so that desperate attempts are not encouraged by any of their drivers. It definitely seems that they would prefer a 1-2 with a particular driver having the '1' position...or maybe I'm looking too hard...

113

@franklin
Well said??
I thought Nico drove well up until that ridiculous move with Lewis.

114

Toto's explanation made no sense, they basically undercut Lewis with Rosberg, meaning he had to cover off both the Ferrari's and his teammate. As it was they did neither, they didn't cover off Ferrari AND they dropped him behind Rosberg. It's not like Hamilton was streets ahead of Rosberg to justify splitting the strategies like that.

115

Well Hell! Who didn't see that coming? Brake-by-wire failure?? Plausible enough, but those two Merc drivers are some of the clumsiest on the grid. Every time they get close to each other, usually for the lead, they collide.
Max on the other hand looking like a real racer. Showing DR a thing or two in race-craft lately.
Thrilling race, pity it ended that way...
Congrats to Wehrlein and Button!
Shame on those pesky Australians still booing HamMan, but he forgives them 🙂

116
Phillip Harben

Australians?

Or do you mean Austrians? 🙂

117

3 WDCs and 46 wins say your comment is WRONG. You dont build up stats like that by being "clumsy" dear boy! Ros had also drove a great race up to that point but he just lacks that little bit extra needed to take on Lewis wheel to wheel. Merc handed ROS that win, intentionally or not, and he blew it. I do rate ROS but he just lacks that little extra needed to be at lewis' level. If your comments about hamilton being clumsy are true then what does that say about the rest of the grid? If a clumsy driver can rack up the stats lewis has then the sport you are following is a shambles my friend. Another sport may be for you.

118

Put the rest of the grid in a Merc and they'd have half those stats too.
It's called Nemisal-Proximo Clumsiness. They both have it.
Ham isn't the cleanest racer out there by a long shot.

119

Exactly, they'd only have half the results. Lewis makes the difference. And although he isn't perfect, he's ruthless at times and very very quick.

120

Nico is in a merc and doesn't have those stats ?

121

Nemisal-Proximo Clumsiness....

Are you sure that you didn't just make that up?

122

I'm sure I did just make that up. Sometimes unusual happenings need a name. (Like Brexit)
What happened to your star rating C63?

123

My stars have gone 🙁 They are linked to the email address used when a comment is made and the usual address (the one I've been using for years) has, for reasons unknown, been rejected by JA's servers. The technical bod's have had a go at fixing it and it worked for about 2 hours and then it stopped again. It's a bit of a pain really as the email address I'm currently using is related to work and the replies are cluttering up my inbox. Very first world problems I know but still an irritation. As for your made up term - I like it, although I can't help feeling that describing Ros as Hams nemesis is stretching things a bit
🙂

124

Sir Tease: Austrians, the 'al' makes a big difference

125

I was wondering why the hills were so green!

126

Max - race-craft? He did a Stephen Bradbury here just like he did at Barcalona!

127

oh right, he got from P8 to P3 totally because of luck... /s

128

Australians booing? Must have been loud if they were audible in Austria.

129

@si
???

130

Australians??!!

Wrong Down under, mate!

131

pesky Australians ...

Did you mean Austrians?

132

Only right that they booed he turned in on a car alongside him. Max is the real deal glad people recognizing that. He stood up to hamilton about the safety issue and it got revealed how fake Hamilton really is. Says one thing in the driver briefings and another to the public and press. Then Grosjean of all people called him on unsafely rejoining the track and nearly causing a collision during free practice. Shows how good his track awareness is with regards to other drivers around him.

133

You must be kicking yourself now TG. The only two people on the planet who believe your story are you and Rosberg. [Mod]

134

And even Rosberg doesn't really believe it

135
MistressofSpeed

Rosberg mentions, in drivers meeting, that the views expressed by Hamilton during team debriefs differ from those he expresses in and among the other drivers.

Ummm. Vestappen takes it upon himself to state that Lewis is just trying to be cool - and the basis of his opinion is what Nico claims to be true; after all, it's not likely that Max was present at the Mercedes debrief.

Methinks Vestappen has a lot to learn about inter team politics - all he did, in my honest opinion was highlight the fact that, behind closed doors, Lewis finds it way too easy to scare the pants off Nico. Especially if Nico really did say: "that's not what you said....", as this comes across like a school kid annoyingly telling tales in order to talk himself up in his peers opinions'.

136
Phillip Harben

Max Verstappen should sit down and shut up. He is a [Mod] and when he has a fraction of the experience of the Mercedes drivers, then he might be entitled to an opinion.

137

The days when children should be seen and not heard are long gone my friend.
Why shouldn't he have his say? An opinion from anyone on the grid gives fascinating insight into who the drivers really are. Rose coloured twitter feeds are notoriously deceiving.

138

The same thing could be said about you then.

You just don't like the guy. That's fine, but to say you can't have an opinion because others are more experienced is ludicrous obviously.

139

Hahahaha... Wow... Just wow. Any credibility you might have had is gone... Just gone. Keep it up though.... Makes great light reading ?

140

@tg
Have you actually read what he said????? I doubt it!
He said it made his heart pump when driving in, not that it was a safety issue.
Could you please do some homework before post and find the facts. Something gets said then ends up like Chinese whispers and people like you jump on the band wagon of insults.

141

TG and facts are rarely in close proximity to one another.

142

Max looking like a real racer ....
pleaseee never laughed so loud.
The only one clumsy is Rosberg !!

143

Yes Rosberg Clumsy like Lewis has not collided with other drivers in the past including his previous team mates. He has a bad history and reputation. In germany he hit Kimi and Button in one race if that was not enough

144

Very good. I go back to my previous point..... Maybe f1 isnt for you.

145

Big Vern
Disagree with you, Max is a rising star. Reminds me of Lewis when he come to F1.
He will be multiple WDC I think.

146

James know
I was being reactionary just to get TG is on a crazy bender throwing his rattle out his pram.
Max is a up and coming driver. But he is still learning he will at dome stage beat his team mate in points tally. Yes future world champion. But the reactionary comments from TG are so comical that I thought he'd bite at that comment.
Didn't think you'd take it for an actual statement. Just to get TG climbing walls ?

147

@big Vern
Sorry mate, fell for that one? totally agree with your reply?
Roll on silverstone ??

148

So now its ok to turn in on your team mate when he's on the inside line when the roles where reversed all Lewis Ham fans were squealing. [mod]

149

Good, good.... Whats next? Its the way you tell em ?

150

I thought your comment above about turning in might have been sarcasm. HAM went round the corner on the very outside , ROS just kept driving straight on. That why he got a penalty from the stewards.

151

TG, I have to say when I saw the crash my first thought was " at least even the most hardnosed Hamilton basher could possibly blame Lewis for that" but yet here you are, desperately trying to pin the blame on The clearly immocent party!

152

TG....
U missed the point..Hamilton was going round the corner and on the extreme end of the corner and u can see on the footage that robbery wasn't turning to the inside..he was driving straight on..and didn't even turn..he clearly said he went there to cover off the outside yet he should defend the inside and hami left a lot of room..rosb self destructed greedy and got reward for greed a unfairness

153

@tg
Who's squealing,?????
Racing incedent or just racing, one of those things. There is a craft to real racing and close quarter racing. Something Rosberg hasn't mastered. I think Nico drove well to come in front, but once again, crumbled under pressure. He will only WDC if it is handed to him on a plate I'm afraid. Now I know all you [Mod] will come up with something ridiculous on the lines of " Hamilton has had his handed on a plate"
Think before you write this, think really well, because apart from sounding totally pathetic, it's all getting very boring.

154

you sound like a squealing nico fan, i'm not a fan of either but anyone with an ounce of racing knowledge would know it was nico's fault.

155

Rosbergs just been given a 10 second penalty plus 2 points on his licence by the stewards - do you still think you're right and everyone else is wrong?

156

Just who is "everybody"??
The thousands on the stands booing Hamilton are also a part of "everybody"?
When you turn your wheel you have to look both ways to see if it's safe. It wasn't safe to make the corner because Nico was there. Bla-bla-bla that's not ethic or it's against the rules or whatever?? I don't care! If there was a wall where Nico's car was standing [Mod] would have never turned the wheel to make the corner.
Hamilton had room. If he didn't have room he could have ducked and then go for Charlie.
The only painful truth is that Hamilton simply threw his car against Nico's and then he plead the "enough room". And then he overtook Nico under yellows. Yep, everybody saw that on the big screens.
That's why you're getting booed, [Mod]. Yep, even [Mod]

157

Apparently the PA announcer at the Spielberg circuit relayed the incident as "Hamilton rammed into Rosberg". Perhaps that might explain the booing? Lesson learned, never just go off hearsay.

158

10 second penalty is TOOTHLESS!! He still keeps 4th with it. Should have been a drive-through (like what Hamilton got for unintentionally understeering into Ricciardo last year in Hungary), that would been 25 seconds and would've put him down to 6th, and cost him 4 points.

The bigger story though remains Mercedes blatantly trying to hand the race win to Rosberg on a plate! Does he have some compromising pictures of Toto/Niki/Dr. Z, or what?!

Nico again shows he's prepared to go dirty to win. I find it inexplicable that the Mercedes heads are okay with being associated with such underhanded behaviour.

159

Thats so funny coming from you cause Lewis cut the white line exiting the pits and only got a 5 second penalty. He should have got a drive thru for that. But it proves the point he does not look where he drives.

160

Hmm, don't get why that's funny. 5 sec time penalty has been the usual penalty for the minor offenses (such as crossing the pit exit line, etc.), since the new 5 & 10 sec penalties came in.

The usual penalty for causing a collision has been a drive-through, or 20-25 secs added. Why it was 10 secs there I'm not sure, and hopefully no precedent.

But of course you knew that.

161

10 second penalty is TOOTHLESS!!

I know what you mean, but the fact the stewards involved themselves in a 'blue on blue' incident at all is something to be grateful for. Rosberg has now had his card marked and will have to think very carefully before trying something similar again.

162

You are right of course. Mercedes can't really apportion any blame to Lewis, if they were of the mind to appear "fair and balanced".

Nico moans to Wolff after every perceived injustice, when really for something like Canada '16 he should be flatly told "what the hell were you doing keeping your nose in there?"

Just hope squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease in this case.

163

Perhaps u need to revisit both incidents on replay. If it makes u feel better, hamilton isn't leading the championship yet

164

@TG
I realise you don't like Hamiton , and that's fair enough - it makes no difference to me. But seriously, do you honestly believe that wasn't Rosbergs fault ? You really should try and learn a bit about motor racing as your comments are just silly at times . There isn't a single pundit or ex racing driver that says anything other than it was Rosbergs fault yet you persist in your argument that it was down to Hamilton. It's bizarre !

165

Yes because they have always been consistent and fair in the past. this same incident happened in the past but who was given the penalty not Lewis but Pastor

decom_lewis pastor 2_577971cae6203.jpgdecom_lewis pastor 2_577971cae6203.jpg
166

The screenshot you've posted, TG, clearly shows Hamilton turning in correctly and hitting the apex correctly. Rosberg did not turn in correctly and did not get anywhere near the apex. Having said that, I'm going to support you - one could accuse Hamilton of not leaving Maldonado "racing room" at the exit phase of the corner...I remember Hamilton cheekily running Webber off the road a few years ago, and then basically excusing that as illustrative of his burning desire to win. Which I am comfortable with myself, but I can see it's a grey area. Rosberg on the other hand is motivated by a desire not to lose (remember his coming off badly when he shut the door on Ricciardo in Hungary last year?)

167

your link doesn't work on my Mac!

168

It's been a few years since that incident but wasn't the penalty given for rejoining the track in a dangerous manner?

169

@C63, It won't stop the relentless campaign against his favourite (and only) target. At least he's consistent I suppose, if a little misguided.
I'm sure like everyone else he knows that on this occasion that Rosberg was to blame but where is the fun in accepting the obvious when you can use an alternative version of reality to attack the chosen target.
"It's Bizarre! " That was kind of you?

170

Rosberg had no interest in the racing line, or going round that corner. He only had eyes for Hamilton.

decom_ros-ham-aus-2016_57792f6884272.jpgdecom_ros-ham-aus-2016_57792f6884272.jpg
171

Rosberg might be at fault or may b at fault bt if it is that than also Lewis isnt a saint in it.
https://youtu.be/q4LZK5Ko0OU

172

It was very plain to see! He knew if he didn't try that maneuver Hamilton would've passed him very easily! It was a desperation move! Like I said before Rosberg has no wheel to wheel skills!

173

Well in that photo you can quite clearly see the lines which are normally used to go around that corner.

174

Of course!
Now, you spared me a lot of work to get a picture like that.
Tell me: where on earth did Hamilton get without room to make the corner?? They still haven't touched but they're only 40-50cm apart from each other. Yet, Hamilton still has a car's length. In fact he has at least 2 cars' length of room to make the corner.
Why did he turn the wheel and slam into Nico's car??
Then afterwards, why did he overtake Nico under yellows?

175

Exactly John Ham fans go to the point of exaggerating that Rosberg T-Boned him. How can you T-Bone a car thats along side you and who really moves his car across to cause the collision. And i point out that Hamilton does not look where he drives or has poor track awareness last year at the same track he cut the white line exiting the pits and was surprised that he got a penalty.

176

Two things:

You cannot drive straight on at a corner to push the overtaking car off the track. there is being aggressive and then theres that. Correct move would have been to take the apex, get a better exit and close the door on the exit of the corner. At that point it would have been completely legal (assuming Nico was ahead) to run Hamilton out of room. This was a desperate attempt to force Hamilton off the track as he was ahead, better on the brakes and with better tyres. Desperate not to lose his lead, forced a collision in the process.

2. Nico slowed through the yellows due to car damage - therefore under the rules Hamilton was perfectly entitled to overtake under yellow flags in the circumstances.

177

Exactly right on both points. Unfortunately, all the people who are trying to pin this one on Hamilton don't (or at least don't want to) understand the subtleties of racing.

178
Ricki Sanguinetti

Oh man,this remains me of a great comedian who was caught by the wife cheating on her and tells her," who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?
That is what Rosberg is telling racing fans.

179

Yeah, because pushing someone wide on the corner exit wheel for wheel and t-boning into the side of them on the corner entry when you've barely turned the steering wheel are identical situations.

180

Define T-Boning AndrewM does the car not have to be perpendicular or at least close to that for that to be reality or does that come from the Hamilton definition of it.

181

The front of someone's car hitting the sidepod of another driver's car is good enough for me, if you don't like it feel free to use your own descriptor 🙂

182

I believe the stewards have answered you adequately by penalising Rosberg. It is not acceptable to ram a car in front of you, even if he is your team mate and is passing you during a championship battle. 10sec penalty for Mr Ramburg and 2 points off his licence. Have a nice day!

183

Bit of a nothing ruling from the stewards, Rosberg keeps all his points and basically gets off scott free unless he goes on a Maldonado-esque crashing spree over the next 12 months. Which is certainly possible at this rate...

184

Yes you call Rosberg Maldonado but the only one who has crashed into more drivers or drivers other than his team mate is Hamilton.

185

Hamilton has very few penalties for causing collisions outside his poor patch in 2011, most of them have been deemed the fault of the other driver or racing incidents.

186

Are you talking about the last lap at Austria or the first lap at Canada?

187

Pushing someone wide on the corner exit wheel-to-wheel when they're alongside you and t-boning into the side of them on the corner entry when they're ahead and you've barely turned the steering wheel are totally different situations.

188

Aaaah, and I thought I was the only one who was going to remember that one! 😀

190

The above screenshots shows maldonado trying to pass Hamilton.
It's nothing like what ROS and HAM had going on in Austria. Maldonado was never ahead of Hamilton and Hamilton took the regular line as was demonstrated by the stewards report in both instances.

191

He forced a driver that was on better tyres and faster than him off track and you know it.

192

TG, Hamilton in the pic was ahead at apex, on the inside. He wedged Pastor out at corner exit. All kosher. Pastor got penalized for re-entering the track in a dangerous fashion, when he speared into Hamilton. In the process Maldonado lost a likely 3rd. Just see how Kimi was closed out by Lewis the lap before, but then got by afterwards.

193

Pushing someone wide on the corner exit wheel-to-wheel when they're alongside you and t-boning into the side of them on the corner entry when they're ahead and you've barely turned the steering wheel are totally different situations.

I am going to copy/paste this comment to anyone even hinting this is the same as Canada/Austin/Suzuka/wherever.

194

hamilton had plenty of time to react he was the car overtaking. So it was ok when Hamilton ran Rosberg wide off the track in Japan last year? Whats gonna be the excuse for Hamilton trying to hit Rosberg when he rejoined the track that time he could see him in front.

195

Re: Hamilton rejoining ... Davidson showed Button the crash footage, and Button remarked that it was incredible that Nico didn't give him any room to rejoin.

You don't think the drivers know who's dirty, and who's not?

This was classic from Button at ABU14 press conference:

https://youtu.be/s372iZKMdAU

196

@TG

Does it not bother you, or at least make you pause for thought, that you are pretty much the only person who doesn't think Rosberg was to blame? You really ought to take the time to understand the subtleties of motor racing.

197

c63. I realise that you are the self appointed master of knowledge when it comes to F1 but Hamilton was in the wrong. When he does what Nico did you say that's racing. When Nico does it you whine like a lovesick puppy. So I guess that i am one of your
"you are pretty much the only person who doesn't think Rosberg was to blame?"

198

You're claiming that siding yourself with TG as a positive?!?

199

Thank you Dah i wish more people like you and john3voltas [Mod]. What i am trying to establish is a pattern that one driver always causes collisions, always cuts corners to benefits himself, always causes controversy. Did they ever stop to ask why is it every team mate Hamilton has had except Heiki who was basically hired to be number 2 has ended being portrayed as the bad guy. First it was Alonso, Button barely escaped but thats because he rolled over most of the time but he did get accused of unfollowing Hamilton when he did not even have him added or that famous telemetry tweet. Now Rosberg who did not have any problems with fans till Hamilton came along. That's his MO, to cause a split in the team so they have no choice but to get rid off or support one driver over the other.

200

I'm not the self appointed master of anything. However, unlike your good self (and TG) it would appear that I do understand the difference between what Hamilton did in Canada and what Rosberg did in Austria. Crucially, so did the stewards. I agree the differences are subtle, but they are differences nonetheless - you should take some time to understand them yourself and then you wouldn't get in such a lather over a matter in which you are plainly wrong.

201

So the physics and realities of the racing line don't come into it? I'm a little confused by your comments. I am not a fan of either party in this incident, but the facts are the facts, Nico didn't turn his wheel until the point where - had he not collided with Lewis - he would have left the track. This is clearly evidenced on the FOM coverage. Did you listen on the radio?

202

Look at the still erajad posted above, or watch the reply. There is taking the corner, following a wide line to push the guy on the outside up to the edge or even off the track.
Then there is making no effort to take the corner.

203

Pushing someone wide on the corner exit wheel-to-wheel when they're alongside you and t-boning into the side of them on the corner entry when they're ahead and you've barely turned the steering wheel are totally different situations.

I am going to copy/paste this comment to anyone even hinting this is the same as Canada/Austin/Suzuka/wherever.

204

ROS had the inside line at the corner. He chose to go wide but stay within the confines of the track. HAM either backs off or crashes into his teammate. He chose the latter...

205

Does the inside line 'rule' usurp the 'car in front rule? Was Lewis was in front as they entered the corner.......? And what happened to leaving a car's width? Lewis left two car's widths....

206

Hear hear!

207
Ricki Sanguinetti

Good,Lawyer!
And who got his car damaged?
And who got the win?
And who got the 10 sec penalty?
And who got -2 deduction on license?
Nico has no race craft, and above all, a noted [Mod].

208

Yet who has collided with more drivers this year

209

Take a look at the pic provided by erajad above. [
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/07/lewis-hamilton-wins-in-austria-after-last-lap-collision-with-nico-rosberg/#comment-3669124] Hamilton was in front on the corner and couldn't have left it much later to turn in or he'd have been off the track. Rosberg made no attempt to take the corner but, with failing brakes, he was pushing Hamilton off the circuit. This incident is on a par with Rosberg taking off Hamilton at Spa 2014. I suspect there will be some internal 'talking to' for ROS.

If I was running the team I'd be considering whether to replace Rosberg for next year.

210

Actually Hamilton chose to give Rosberg as much room as the track allowed, which was still not enough for Rosberg. Hamilton had no way of seeing where Rosberg was oncevhe was in front of him.

211

Thank you bedub. You didn't hear them complain when Lewis did the exact same thing in USA last year but did not get penalized

212

Exactly TG!!

213

Get over it TG
Rosberg fault 100 % & Kerb your swearing!! Rosberg fluffed it and cannot handle the pressure !!

214

I did not swear or use any swear words shows how bias the moderators are i dare them to publish my full post to prove it

215

@TG: It sounds like you are proposing a new addition to racing etiquette:

If a driver overtakes on the outside and is ahead of the car being overtaken and therefore unable to see that car, the overtaking driver must continue in a straight line, leaving the track completely, to give the driver being overtaken the choice of running to the outside of the corner.

Personally, I can't see it catching on. I think the drivers prefer to rely on the skill and professionalism of other drivers; two attributes that deserted Nico yesterday afternoon.

216

You ere abusive

That's not allowed

Read "About" section

217

Then that settles it: he didn't swear!

218

Thank you once again. I am glad someone can deduce the truth.

219

You must be blind.

Lewis was well ahead going into the braking zone on the outside. He gave Nico massive amounts of room on the inside for him to have the line going into the corner, and if anything, it was a lot more room than he should have given him. Nico did not even attempt to turn the wheel at the turn-in point, and every camera angle shows it. Lewis was right on the edge of the track on the outside, and if he doesn't turn at all, he might go straight on into the wall. Nico had plenty of room to attempt to turn in, and he was BEHIND on corner entry, so there is really no excuse at all for what he did.

220
Ricki Sanguinetti

Yes, and the Austrians claim it was brake-by- wire failure.
They could even have excuses why it rained in qualy!

221

Its fine if he was so behind and so slow how come he was over a half a car length alongside when lewis turned in on him. Hamilton has pulled the same move on Rosberg in Japan last year and Rosberg gave him enough room

222

Must you insist on banging the same drum over and over?

223

the fact is you can not turn into a car alongside you. Rosberg chose his line. The fact is Lewis hit Rosberg, turned in on him, Rosberg did not plough his car into Lewis. It is harder to overtake on the outside that's why drivers do the cut back. Think back to Japan when Lewis did the same thing to Rosberg, Rosberg backed off so they did not collide.

224

It might be which planet/universe/dimension? ?

225

@ TG

Please we have all had enough. once was plenty!

226

Hahaha... Are you still sticking to this? Good man... You stand by your convinctions..... No matter how deluded they are. It takes great strength and poise to stand by a statement despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.... Lets call it a moral victory for you... And a REAL victory to Lewis.

227

/you can not turn into a car alongside you/

You also cannot drive straight into car ahead of you when in turn. In turn, you turn.

228

In turn, if you see a car along side that's going like a bullet into the wall, let that car go by. Then, and only then, take the turn and go win the race.

229

And he wont back out anymore if he wants ti be WDC, legal manouver or not. in '14 and '15 Lewis pushed Nico a few times and Nico took it. He lost the psichological battle. This he decided to go all the way, no matter the consequenses. It might be is last shot at the WDC.

230

Glad you acknowledge that Lewis has a past History of doing this to other drivers.

231

TG Rosberg has just been given 2 points on his licence and a ten seconds penalty for ploughing into Lewis and an official reprimand gorgeous driving around in a damaged car. So if the stewards think he's at flat then you need to look at the slow mo and you'll see Rosberg tried up bully Lewis off the circuit and came off worse. Zero skill from Rosberg 100% his fault.
Think you are watching from an ivory tower TG

232

you the one whose is watching from Ivory tower Lewis has done the same thing before

decom_lewis pastor 2_577972bf794bc.jpgdecom_lewis pastor 2_577972bf794bc.jpg
233

Again TG, Maldonado got the penalty at EUR '12!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_European_Grand_Prix#ref_2

"Following his collision with Hamilton on the penultimate lap, Maldonado received a 20 second penalty for "rejoining the track in an unsafe manner". His penalty dropped him from 10th to 12th."

You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

234

@th
First things first, of the things I dislike the most, racism is on top of that list.
I was only interested in where you come from because I have travelled a lot and have seen the way different cultures and countries think and act.
Thankyou for your racist reply, I think I've Sussed you out. Your not English, but you live in Britain I believe.

235

This is absolutely not the same thing?

236

How many times are you going to post that same pic?

237

Oh my word. Bang goes your credibility. Planet F1 for you I think.

238

Aezy-doc
Planet F1 that is a horrendously bad website as is Yahoo Eurosport F1.
Yep TG will enjoy his stance there ?

239

No he didn't "choose his line", he didn't even try to make the corner. You can't just run someone out of road like that. If Rosberg made the corner and hung Hamilton out to dry on the outside I'd agree with you, but he didn't, so you're wrong.

240

Hamilton Texas last year = same
Corner exit, driver on the inside doesn't turn and forces driver on the outside of the track to take evasive action.

241

Thank you Gary. Why didn't Lewis take evasive action this time. Although in US he pushed Rosberg wide with contact why was he not penalized for causing a collision or leave enough room then

242

Gary, not really the same as USA incident, first Nico wasn't ahead of Lewis, only alongside, and second, in Austria Nico made no attempt to turn into the corner, at the COTA Lewis applied lock and under steered wide.

243

TimW by you explanation Lewis could not control his car, could not make that corner and caused a collision. You know he could slowed his car down right. You are making the exact point i am trying to make here. Nico has in the past lifted or taken evasive maneuvers to avoid collision something Lewis does not seem interested in doing with his team mate or other drivers.

244

TG, except there was no collision, and it was on the entry not exit. Not really the same thing at all is it? The fact remains that in Austria Nico made no attempt to turn into the corner and left his team mate no room at all, at some point you will just have to recognise that you are wrong to try and blame Lewis here, it was Nico's fault.

245

I respect variation in opinions because this site is awesome for that...

...but you've got to be having a laugh TG, take off your ROS-googles!

246

Swap the names and you're talking about two races ago...

247

Thank you Sir Tease

248

No, you're really not. Pushing someone wide on the corner exit wheel-to-wheel when they're alongside you and t-boning into the side of them on the corner entry when they're ahead and you've barely turned the steering wheel are totally different situations.

249

As I've said before, some just refuse to get a clue. It's easy (but lazy) to just group incidents under the same banner, and damn the specific circumstances of each.

250

hamilton knows he is the best racer in f1 and does not need to crash into others to win and rosberg know hamilton is the best and the only way to win is to crash into him, so he does, rosberg made clean passes on other cars today so he knows how to do that too but he chose......

251

Yep, that's my point!

252

Nope. Go back and watch the replay from Canada. The only similarity is that one person got pushed wide. If that's how simply you look at things, you have some problems. In Canada, Lewis actually turned in for the corner, and he did it in the usual and proper spot. Watch what happened; look at the replay. His car experienced understeer, which is why it went wide, consequently forcing Nico wide. But there never was an action like today in Austria. Nico didn't turn in at all until he was not only past the turn in point to hit the apex, he didn't even TURN his wheel at all until past the apex.

253

So Hamilton is more subtle when screwing someone through a corner. What's your point?

254
Tornillo Amarillo

Unfortunately HULK career seems to fade like he has faded from P2 to P19 and retirement...

...while raisings stars again VERSTAPPEN in P2 and SAINZ from the back to P8, Toro Rosso was doing a great job for F1 I have to recon.

If you cheer for midfielders too there is great fun there aswell.

255
Tornillo Amarillo

KIMI just brings the car home, not exciting really.

SAINZ!

256

Kimi did the maximum yesterday despite getting dropped behind both RB's, another Ferrari strategy error.. His pace in clean air was pretty strong, Vettel wasn't catching him when both in clean air. He then lost bags of time to Verstappen behind Ricciardo who was very slow. 1 more lap and Kimi would have passed Verstappen. Ferrari cost themselves 1 place to Red Bull.

@Gaz Boy. Kimi to Haas? Really? I think he'd rather have a few vodkas and go snowmobile racing. Plus, if anyone's noticed, Esteban has been out-qualifying Grosjean recently.

257

Did you watch the same race?
These lap times would help you, to actually know that Kimi did just fine, it was the poor strategy that cost him dearly....
here's the link,
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=chart&gp=964&graf=3&dr1=Kimi%20Raikkonen&dr2=Max%20Verstappen

just to put it in some perspective his best lap was on lap 66!! on 44 lap old tyres... & it was only 4tenths slower than fastest lap of the race......

258

Ferrari have to dispense with the strategy czar they appointed this year [ex Lotus ? I believe]. There hasn't been one decent call on strategy so far. As Brundle put it, getting Kimi out behind the two Bulls was just not clever.
Also I'd love to hear that Jock Clear is doing great things for the team ... or is he still gardening on the pitwall....

259

Strategy guy is Ex-Mercedes!! 😀
They really don't seem to have a clue of how long the tyres would last, what sort of performance (& for how long) we can get on those tyres in race conditions 🙂

260

Did Max pass Kimi on the track? I don't think I saw that. Was Kimi going to try passing Max on the last lap if there hadn't been a yellow flag? Probably.

Conclusion : once again Ferrari strategy seems to have failed. Clearly they left both drivers on the SuperSoft too long, but you have to wonder if the SuperSoft is actually any faster than the Soft? Doesn't look very much better to my eyes.

261

No he undercut him.

262

That question actually depends on a few things, including ambient temperature, tire temperature, track surface abrasiveness, grip levels, and tire pressures. In theory, you would think that the super soft would be better than the soft. But overall, on average, you have a delta of a half second a lap (again, this depends on the track, even less on shorter tracks like this one). There alone, you won't see much difference. Plus, you have to take into account that different cars on different tires are likely on different laps, and the tires do degrade at different rates.

Even the teams don't know for sure always, and they have access to gigabytes of data on the tires. For us to speculate is silly.

263

& No more durable than the Ultras it seems .

Yep Ferrari pit Kimi at the wrong time he lost out behind the bulls. He drove a great race & had Verstappen were it not for the last lap yellow flag!.

It will never change but Ferrari must devote more thought to both cars... Its cost them many points!

264

I guess what you're saying is that Kimi was lining up for a shot into the hairpin (where ROS and HAM collided). However was he really close enough? I don't think he was honestly (he was v close behind VES but not close enough to outbrake him even if there weren't any yellows). Was difficult to see on the telly though.

265

He's scored more podiums in the first 9 races of the year that he did in both 2014 and 2015 combined!

The French daily sports newspaper L'Equipe is strongly tipping Romain Grosjean and Kimi to possibly swap teams, or at least it was last week when I read it in Nice. They reckoned it was about 50/50 whether the Iceman is retained or "farmed out."

266

Kimi will never go to HAAS.
& by the looks of it, the way Ferrari are scoring own goals, it does look like Kimi might be replaced by Perez or Grosjean or Bottas, when we have no evidence that they would do any better than what Kimi is doing this year. That would be mother of Own goals 🙂 🙂

267

Of course they want to push for Grosjean to Ferrari but I think Perez is a better option. Either way I dont care whether Kimi stays or goes

I think Ferrari should hold off extending Vettels contract. This pipe dream of doing a Michael is going to blow up in his face. Fancy doing 30odd laps on SS and not even thinking of stopping. Whether he or the team decided on that- not very smart!.

268

That quip shows l'Equipe are ill equipped to make that call. Turrini has revealed the Iceman ain't going no place next year.

Here's hoping he is right!

269

Ferrari oh boy bad luck follwing them kimi was i think asked 5 laps early n vettel has been asked 3 laps more to go on super soft the wrong strategy made kimi race looks bellow avg where as he is driving nice IMHO

270

Nothing against Hamilton, but in Canada Hamilton "understeered" Rosberg in turn one, it was hard racing. Well done Lewis...Here Rosberg pushed wide Hamilton and he is at fault? Also, Hamilton was coming back from off-track the second time, he could have backed off and than there is no second collision.

271

In 2014 HAM tried to pass ROS around the outside into turn one in Canada, the move failed, you need a massive speed differential or you get squeezed over turn two. In 2016 ROS tried the identical move and got the identical result. ROS did nothing untoward in 14 (we went back to the discussion here and there was very little comment from pro-Hamilton folks). Oddly (or not, depending on your view) the anti-Hamilton brigade kicked up a fuss about something the stewards saw no reason to trouble themselves with this year.
If you look at the still posted further up by erajad you can see where Rosberg is relative to the racing line, and that he has passed the Apex of the corner without beginning to turn .
I'm pretty sure the replays showed there was nearly a second collision when Rosberg kept Hamilton from joining but actually Hamilton did enough to avoid a second collision.

272

Rosberg didn't push Hamilton wide.

Rosberg didn't turn his steering wheel.

See if you can spot the difference between the two.
Wolff himself admitted ROS didnt turn in .

273

Who cares if ROS turned his wheel?? As a matter of fact, he could have parked the car on that spot and it would always be the same: Hamiboy crashed into ROS' car. Simple.

274

Two completely different situations, Canada and Austria. In Canada, both Lewis and Nico already went into the corner. Yes, Lewis pushed Nico off track, but that is mid-corner when there is much less control and the one on the racing line has the advantage and the right to take the line. This Austria incident started before they went into the corner, because Nico didn't bother to turn into the said corner.

275

There was "no second collision".

276
Tornillo Amarillo

Exactly! Why Toto said that on TV???

He said the first clash could be (?) but not the second one... James please,

Jaaaamessss 🙂

It's not the drivers, the team needs team orders 🙂

277

Thank you for pointing that out Peter. Everytime Ham fans have criticized Rosberg for not being aggressive as Lewis although this time it was Hamilton who turned in on the guy on the inside. Its always harder to go around the outside especially when the guy being overtaken places the car correctly most other drivers would have used their heads and waited for the cut back coming out of the corner but not Lewis he's special and too talented for that

278

Im glad you understand how special and talented lewis is. It takes a big man to admit such a thing. Good lad.

279

[mod] I'm not sure on the rules of posting F1 video on youtube, but see if you can find a replay video of the first lap onboard of Hamilton. Hamilton WAS turning in to the corner, he WAS aiming for the apex, and he UNDERSTEERED. That is not at all similar to today's incident. In fact, the only similarities were a) 2 Mercedes cars, and b) one was on the inside and one was on the outside. Look at today's race. Rosberg didn't turn in. He didn't aim for the apex. He didn't even turn his steering wheel until after the apex. There was no intention to turn and race. It was simply a maneuver to push Hamilton off track. That's why the move was wrong, and he was 100% at fault. There's a difference between understeering (Canada) and choosing not to steer at all (Austria). Watch the onboards and try and tell me the intent was the same with both incidents.

280

Is understeer the new excuse for a someone who can't make the corner so takes his team mate off?

281

Who freaking cares if HAM understeered or not??
Go ask the thousands on Osterreichring's stands if they care if HAM oversteered on the 1st lap in Canada. And yet they justifiably booed him because they know he's been doing this for much too long now.

282

So it is not possible for thousands of Austrians to be wrong? - I will not make a reference to certain historical events, we are above that level of debate on this website - anyway I heard that on the tanoy the commentator said that Hamilton crashed into Rosberg which might have influenced their reaction.

[Mod]

283

No - if you were watching on Sky you'll have seen that those same fans told Ted Kravitz that the PA had announced that Ham had crashed into Ros. They hadn't actually seen that it was the other way around. THAT'S why they booed.

284

Oh, and yes, I had been watching the whole race on Sky but then came the first opinions on the last lap incident and I got so sick of it that I had to go get some fresh air.
Then came Anthony Davidson's comment on the incident and, although he still backed HAM all the way through, he still found some reasoning in his head and admitted that ROS might have done it because HAM has done it to ROS plenty of times.

285

Thank you John for getting what i was trying to point out to them. Hamilton has indeed done it plenty of times to Rosberg and other drivers. Rosberg gets penalized more. To me that seems unfair.

286

Hamilton has squeezed plenty of people plenty of times.

Rosberg didn't squeeze Hamilton, he punted him off the track. Show me one time Hamilton's done that.

287

And why on earth would the PA announce anything different than that HAM had run into ROS in the first place???
There's no reason for them not to boo HAM!

288

If you want to hear booing , make sure you tune into Silverstone this coming weekend . Not that I condone it, but I'm pretty sure Rosberg is going to get a tasty reception ?

289

Well, because as we know, Hamilton didn't run into Rosberg. It was the other way round. So the PA was incorrect. Clearly you have a different opinion, but your opinion is irrelevant compared to say, ooh, the stewards'.

There may be many reasons why people feel the need to boo Hamilton - but the collision between him and Rosberg is not one of them.

290

Look, there is no doubt that Rosberg caused the collision. Whether or not you come down harshly on him for it is up to you. But it's good that we just acknowledge facts, just as we should acknowledge when Hamilton is a little brain-dead.

In this case, though, Rosberg was just stupid. His brake-by-wire was gone and he had no real chance of defending aggressively with Hamilton having about 3/4 of a car length advantage going into the braking zone. On top of it, the camera angles show that, despite the fact Lewis gave him all of the room in the world on the inside despite he himself having the advantage on corner entry, Nico didn't even attempt to crank the wheel at corner entry.

Considering all of the circumstances, it was just really stupid driving by Nico. There is no way he was going to come out of that situation without taking himself out and possibly his teammate.

On top of it all, the idiot proceeds to drive around the track with a clearly unsafe car that is dragging and spewing bits all over the circuit and putting other drivers in danger. He deserves further penalizing in general for his stupid driving on the last lap.

291

or this as well for which pastor the crasher was unfairly penalized. Hamilton has aggressively defended in the past and not been penalized. I ask you why does this driver in particular escape punishment. Why is he allowed to make moves and others not.

decom_lewis kam_57794c493f8af.pngdecom_lewis kam_57794c493f8af.png
292

Thats not Pastor. It's Kobayashi

293

Isn't that Spa in someting like 2011 (with Kobyashi) not Pastor?

294

or this one @ spa

decom_lewis-hamilton_2980906b_57794a941982d.jpgdecom_lewis-hamilton_2980906b_57794a941982d.jpg
295

This wasn't Spa either. Looks a lot like Hockenheim

296

or this

decom_lewis button 2_5779467ea2802.jpgdecom_lewis button 2_5779467ea2802.jpg
297

\Ha ha, this is getting too funny! Let me guess this picture is Lewis and Bernoldi at Watkins Glen?!!

298

This would be fine if it was the first incident

decom_lewis button_57794595b1827.jpgdecom_lewis button_57794595b1827.jpg
299

Nice pic of Lewis and Hector Rabaque going through T3 at Rouen there.....

300

TG, you are wrong, I realise you desperately want that incident to be Lewis' fault, but it simply wasn't. Allow yourself to be guided by people who really understand motor racing, all the experts are unanimous in blaming Nico. There is a reason for that.

301

TG, enough with the facts and evidence. This discussion is supposed to be based purely on opinion supported by short and biased memory. Those pictures probably aren't even real, you probably doctored them in Photoshop 😉

302

sorry twitch_6 but am impatient.
if rosberg was ordered over so that hamilton just passed rosberg to win the race, i'd not like it one bit. in monaco 2016, rosberg was slow infront of hamilton for 11 laps too long before rosberg was asked to let him through and when he was let through, we all witnessed the magic he displayed. driving that beast of a car and making sublime strategy calls, beating all the mercedes strategists both at home and on site with all their supercomputers to boot....mm mm mm mm mm! what a race that was.
i don't class that as team orders. team orders are decisions taken by teams to fix race results..

303

Fact is Aveli, team orders put Lewis in a position to contend for the win.

Why wasn't lewis able to use all that magic he supposedly posses to pass Nico in a much slower and ailling car?

I don't want to seem like in going at you aggressively, but I see so much inconsistency in your posting.

Hamilton unable to pass Rosberg, team orders required. That you're ok with.

Hamilton defends his postion against Ricciardo, that's "magic". (Despite Lewis having previously been in the same position and needing team orders to make progress).

Max pulls a monster final stint in Spain holding Kimi off, but anyone could have done that and it was all team orders.

Max pulls a monster final stint in Austria holding off Kimi, and he's brilliant.

Honda's reliability issues are the fault of Button and Alonso's driving style. So by that logic, isn't all of Merc's problems on Lewis's side of the garage due to Lewis's driving style?

Going back to the team orders. Think about this. Should Lewis win the championship by less than the points differential that took of Rosberg in Monaco, one could argue that Lewis wins the championship because of a team order.

See this is my problem with team Lewis. To them, Lewis is either utterly brilliant, or 100% the victim - there's never any middle ground with you folk. Also, he never intentionally runs people off the road, he just suffers from understeer (also known as loss of control) at pivotal moments in various races.
[mod]

304

Twitch, Facts? Evidence? Where? TG has posted a series of photos (most of which he has incorrectly labeled) of incidents involving Lewis Hamilton from the last 9 years, in what way does this prove anything about Sunday's incident? You could do the same thing for any driver, yes Lewis has been involved in his share of scrapes over his 175 Grand Prix, but do you think - as TG clearly does that he was to blame for all of them? There is a reason that every ex driver, commentator, analyst and race steward thinks Nico was at fault on Sunday, it's because he was. It isn't enough to just want Lewis to be at fault, you have to come up with some facts and evidence to prove it, and neither of you have done this.

305

TimW, jumping out the window to defend your boy. Read the rest of the comments, I clearly say Sunday's events were mostly Nico's fault (I do believe that even though he was pushed wide, Lewis could have avoided contact by continuing straight, he had another two car widths before he would have run out of road)...still mostly Nico's fault though.

I was applauding TG for his use of photos, something not many people do.

What I do agree with TG about is that there is a double standard when it comes to contact.

First off, I don't give a damn what any British commentator has to say, they all dine on the [Mod], and are all biased beyond reason.

Lewis has time and time again used the same move against Nico, although I'll conceid that Lewis is more practiced and better at being subtle with it. Nico tried Lewis's patented move and botched it.

Doesn't change that Lewis has run Nico off the road several times - the key difference being that Lewis is slightly more subtle about it. Then he just puts on his [Mod] and says "really I don't know what happened, I just got crazy understear. [Mod]"

Then we have the Lewis fan club claiming "well Canada and Austin were different!" Of course they were different, but what is the same is that there was intent. Just like Nico deliberately tried to run Lewis off the road, Lewis purposely ran Nico off the road in Canada and Austin.

Read my comments lower down, I think they're both [Mod] who's complete lack of respect for one another on track and inability to race each other cleanly has made the last 3 years a farce. Entertaining in a laughing at them kind of way, but a face no less.

[Please stay respectful at all times - Mod]

306

i think you may need to watch a few more of the wheel to wheel racing to understand it. if a car pulls alongside, you have to leave them enough room to get by. if the car is not alongside, you don't have to give them any room.
this is why when hamilton does it, there is no contact.
as for the red bull ring incident, at the time hamilton turned, rosberg was in his blind spot. he couldnt see him but left more than enough space as he went right to the white line before turning.
rosberg should have left him enough space to turn but he chose not to.
if hr doesn't know how to do it, he should just watch hamilton's videos and he'll be learning from the best.

307

Twitch, we can all copy and paste photos, so what? None of the pics he has posted are of any relevance to Sunday's crash, so why bother? And why praise him for it? trying to pin any blame on Lewis for this incident is nonsense, the only way he could have avoided the crash would have been to drive straight off the track in avoidance, the rules state quite clearly that he does not have to do this and the other driver must leave racing room in that situation. This is why the stewards punished Nico and didn't even investigate Lewis.
You do not have to restrict yourself to British commentators to guide your view on this incident, any expert from any country will do.

308

Tim, you are so desperate to defend Lewis that you're arguing against something I haven't claimed.

How many times do I have to repeat myself, I AM OF THE OPPINION THAT THE CRASH ON THE FINAL LAP OF THE AUSTRIAN GRAND PRIX WAS THE FAULT IF ONE NICO ROSBERG. There, maybe the 5th or 6th time will be the charm.

Why you are wasting time trying to convince me that my opinion that Nico caused that crash is wrong, and that it was in fact Nico who caused the crash, is beyond me.

The other thing that I have said that I think you are misreading is that while yes, Lewis had every right to turn in when he did (you're correct, Rosberg was obliged to leave him space), Lewis did not HAVE to turn in. He still had road ahead of him, and paved runoff. All I have said is that there was more Lewis could have done to avoid contact - he had options available to him. From a driver's POV, Lewis did the right thing. From a Merc POV, Lewis could have done more to preserve a better team result. Certainly Nico had more to do with the team losing their 1-2, but Lewis is not 100% innocent.

Lastly, I said earlier that I don't agree with everything TG is saying, just that I agree with his opinion that there is a double standard amongst fans when it comes to Lewis and contact. When Lewis is the victim like he was in Austria, all hell breaks lose and people call for Nico's head. When Lewis intentionally runs Nico off the road (I've said that Lewis is more subtle and precise in how he does this), Lewis is applauded for being a hard nose racing driver's racing driver.

IN MY OPINION, that is rubbish. If a driver runs someone off the road intentionally, no matter how subtle, it's garbage. When one driver repeatedly runs his teamate off the road, it's garbage.

Like I said, I don't care how subtle it is, it is the intent I have issue with. To me, resorting to dirty tactics indicates an inability to win in a clean and fair manner. Ask almost any racing driver, and they'll tell you the most satisfying and difficult way to beat someone is to do it 100% clean.

Going all the way back to Button rolling his eyes in the press conference, Lewis has had a reputation as being a dirty racer (of course, that's not the way his loyal supporters see it). Nico was dirty in Austria, Lewis was dirty in Austin, Canada, and Japan (and, imo, vs Ricciardo in Monaco when he faught for position while rejoining the track...actually something he did again in Austria). The way Lewis drives, if we were back in the good'ole days, he'd have been punched in the nose by nearly every driver in the paddock for the way he drives.

The last thing I've said, repeatedly, is that I am disappointed in BOTH drivers for not being able to race each other cleanly. Us fans have been robbed of 3 years of a good title fight because these two can't race around each other without something happening (and the team knows it). When was the last time we saw these two have a good scrap...Bahrain 2014? Correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty much every other time they have been near each other, fighting for positron (not on different strategies), the result has been that one or both cars has their race compromised. Spa, Austin, Japan, even Hungaroring, Spain, Canada, and now this. They both drive like children, and imo, neither is deserving of having a seat in the most dominant car on the grid.

Maybe I wasn't clear before, so I hope this helps clear up where I stand on the issue. But you can definitely stop trying to convince me that Austria was Nico's fault - I don't need the oppinion of any journo, British or otherwise, to convince me of that. I watched the race with my own eyes lol.