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“Tough Luck!”: Vettel feels the pinch from Ricciardo as troubled streak continues
Red Bull Racing
Posted By:   |  20 Apr 2014   |  2:17 pm GMT  |  439 comments

After out-qualifying Sebastian Vettel for the third time this season and leaving his team-mate second best in consecutive races for first time since 2012, Daniel Ricciardo has had an impressive start to his career at Red Bull.

In Bahrain his pace led to the four-time World Champion moving aside, under orders from the team, as the Australian was on the faster tyre at the time.

Fast forward to Sunday afternoon and just after one third distance in the 56 lap race once again Red Bull management edict comes over the radio to Vettel: “Seb, let Ricciardo through he is faster than you.” This time the pair were on the same tyres, although Ricciardo’s were four laps fresher.

This time, Vettel was not so willing to give up his fourth place. Having asked what tyre Ricciardo was using, and learning the Australian was on the same tyres as himself, Vettel replied, “Tough luck”. The German decided initially to hold his ground and not succumb to the demands of senior management.

Two laps later Ricciardo was able to make the move, and although Vettel and the team said after the race that he had accepted the order to let the faster car through, Ricciardo was not certain that was the case at the time, “I am not sure if he ran deep or gave me a bit of room, but I managed to get by,” said the Australian.

But the story here is how Vettel was prepared to disobey Red Bull team orders for the second time (after Malaysia 2013), even though he did later relent.


Then there is also the ongoing question of how he will deal with being consistently outperformed by a team-mate; one who has full backing from Red Bull senior figures like Helmut Marko (something Mark Webber never enjoyed).

Many fans worldwide believe that Vettel has been handled with cotton wool and regarded as the Golden Boy at Red Bull, with the backing of Marko and gestures such as the front-wing swap from Mark Webber’s to Vettel’s car at the British Grand Prix in 2010, have served to strengthen those claims.

But now Vettel is up against it; with a car which is not the fastest and up against a team-mate who has made an immediate connection with the RB10 and who has important backers in the team.

The German’s gesture to move aside in Bahrain earned him plaudits. However, today he chose to not show faith in the decisions of the pit-wall, instead trying to race Ricciardo.

The Red Bull management was proved correct as Ricciardo romped away to eventually finish the Grand Prix twenty-two seconds ahead, whilst Vettel said that he let the fourth place finisher through.

“I think there was no point in holding him up any longer,” said Vettel. “He was quite a lot quicker and once I was told we were on different strategies I decided to let him go and also realised more towards the end that I couldn’t hold him back.

“At that point in time I was still on a three-stop, which we changed later on, also to a two-stop strategy. Towards the end of the race I also realized that I did not have the pace, which was not really clear to me at that earlier stage.”

Vettel was using up the tyres more quickly than Ricciardo and was struggling particularly with the medium compound tyre, having been competitive on the softs in the opening stint.


Team Principal Christian Horner said that Vettel’s problem is that he doesn’t have the feel from the current generation of cars that he enjoyed with the previous years’ cars.

Part of the reason is believed to be the lack of downforce and especially rear-end stability of these cars compared to the blown diffuser cars. Ricciardo is used to cars with less downforce and stability.

Horner confirmed that Vettel did let his team-mate past, which in-turn gave them the chance of a podium as Ricciardo closed in on Alonso, who might possibly have been beaten had Vettel yielded when first asked.

Horner’s version slightly contradicts Vettel’s; Vettel says he was on a three stop strategy (which normally involves running a faster pace and pushing the tyres harder; normally a three stopper is allowed to pass a two stopper) but was switched to a two-stop. Horner’s version was that Vettel was on a two stop, but Red Bull was thinking of putting Vettel onto a three stopper, “What he (Vettel) didn’t realise was that we were looking at a different strategy because Seb was going through the tyre phases quicker, to convert Sebastian onto a three-stop.

“As soon as he understood that he immediately let him through and he could
see he simply didn’t have the pace to hold him back.”

Vettel pitted on lap 13, which was consistent with a two-stop plan and Ricciardo on lap 17, a clear two stop plan. What hurts a driver is to switch from one to another mid race as what has gone before is not optimum for the new strategy.

“Seb’s done the right thing for the team today and as he said very honestly, he has let his team-mate through, he (Ricciardo) was quicker today,” said Horner. “That enabled us to get closer to Alonso in the final laps, with Daniel finishing twenty seconds ahead of Seb. More important for us is to understand what Seb is struggling with at the moment, because he’s obviously not getting as much out of the car as Daniel.”

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2
kenneth chapman

i hear all the comments and the rationale for supporting vettel and yes, he is a good driver and i am certain that he still is. i for one feel that once he gets the car set up and performing to his style then we will see some spirited racing between both of them.

actually though i have very little respect for vettel for all the very same reasons as a lot of others and that feeds my dislike of him overall. similar to shumacher and to a lesser degree senna. some of their actions were nothing short of despicable but that is another story.

what i like about ricciardo is that he is up front and no BS. he gets on with the job and he is relentless. i see a lot of the alonso style in ricciardo and that cannot be a bad thing.

vettel is being shown up by a ‘top team rookie’. as a four time WDC he should be a master at all things set up/control wise due to his vastly superior experience. that is what top drivers do. hamilton/alonso/rosberg are all coming to grips with the new complexities as one would expect at this level. don’t forget that these guys are very best in the world, broadly speaking that is.

we have now completed four races or 20% of the total. it is time now for some serious race/team definitions to emerge. if vettel hasn’t put a definitive hold on ricciardo then his cred will be hard to re establish. for me there is nothing i would like more than for ricciardo to continue in the same way as he has started. am i totally confident….not really.

3

I think post Barcelona test Vettel will be in top if his issues

Let’s check in on this discussion again then

4
kenneth chapman

@ james, …..yes, by all means. as i said, i would absolutely love to see ricci smash vettel for whole host of reasons but, as i also said, i do fear that vettel will come back at him with a vengeance.

ricci has laid down a marker so far and it is now up to vettel to re establish his credentials. given the support from his ‘cheer squad'[horner et al] he should, if he really is the real deal,easily overcome ricci. four years of total devotion and a great car should be more than enough for this to occur.

so long as ricci keeps his head down and chips away then i will be a very happy fellow. already, after only four races, ricci has given me an exceptional amount of pleasure. hopefully there will be more to come.

5

I’m a long way from being a Vettel fan, but a lot of people seem to be writing him off too quickly. Certainly he’s struggling at the moment, but there’s no reason yet to assume that he and the team won’t get on top of it.

I think sometimes we as fans forget how many different factors go into driving an F1 car on the limit. With the top guys it’s not as simple as “driver x is quicker than driver y”. It’s about optimally balancing a vast array of variables in real time. Vettel isn’t able to do that at the moment, and his own explanation seems plausible enough – he’s not as comfortable with a car that moves around as much as the current cars do.

As many have said, the great drivers adjust their driving style to deal with new cars/tyres/conditions, and it will be fascinating to see how Vettel goes over the next few races. It’s also worth bearing in mind that Red Bull will be working like mad to get some of the lost downforce back in other ways, and as the car gets better Vettel will likely find it easier.

As far as the team orders issue goes, I think people are tending to focus on the wrong aspect. Whether you think Vettel should have pulled over on this occasion or not (I tend toward not – 3rd was a long shot for Dan, so really the RB guys were racing each other for 4th), the interesting point is that Red Bull are still managing this very badly, despite all the problems they’ve had in the past.

As a team, if you want to use team orders then you should have all the possible situations plotted out, a clear outline of what the team expects, and buy-in from the drivers, otherwise there will be tears. The consistent impression from Red Bull is that there isn’t a plan and that the drivers aren’t on board (true for Vettel and Webber, at least – Ricciardo hasn’t had an opportunity to let Vettel by yet).

So far the worst that has happened has been bad publicity (and if you’re Red Bull, maybe any publicity is good publicity), but it’s not hard to imagine a scenario where it could cost them a championship if they don’t have this sorted.

6

Remember 2007 when Raikkonen and Alondo both had to adapt from Michelins to Bridgestone tyres it took them a few races , especially Raikkonen

…and he won the world title that year

7

Exactly!

8

I was going to mention that too about tyres, just forgot which year.

Took them half a year actually as far as I remember. It was a pain to watch their sufferings back then as I like them both. Glad they overcame that in the end.

Hope Raikkonen will overcome his current issues soon.

9

James, do you naively say Ricciardo is not quicker than vettel and it’s all down to vettel not being able to adapt to the new Formulae or cars?

I cannot understand why people cannot give enough credit to Dan Ricciardo. He looks like the real deal and i am clearly confident even if vettel improves Ricciardo will easily fend him off.

I am very sure when the chips are down and the car is difficult to drive vettel have always underperformed. I do think he does not deserve all his 4X WDC titles

10

I love it when an armchair pundit calls an expert naive.

11

Me too !

12

Let’s compare notes in the summer

13

Just wanted to comment on Vettel & his struggles so far in 2014.

Firstly I’ve seen a lot of comments about his struggles & Ricciardo been faster is showing him up as been overrated, His success was all about the car & was a fluke etc…

Well why is it not been considered by some of these people that maybe Ricciardo is actually just very good & much better than they believed him to be? Afterall I saw some comments when he was announced as Webber’s replacement talking about how he was only signed because they wanted a weak teammate to play the clear #2.

As to why Vettel is having a bit of a hard time, I think I share what Martin Brundle (And apparently others in the paddock) believe is the cause.

That been that Vettel is used to having a ton of downforce with a very efficient blown diffuser & all the various engine maps & whatever else that Red Bull/Renault were using to increase downforce. By all accounts getting the most out of that setup required a specific way of driving, Something Vettel adapted to very well & something he changed his driving style to maximize performance gain in that area.

With no meaningful testing Pre-season & the problems he had over the Melbourne weekend Vettel hasn’t had as much seat time to re-adapt his driving style to the new regulation & to start driving in a way to get the most out of the car under the new regulations.

Daniel Ricciardo on the other hand was in a HRT/STR that didn’t have as much downforce, He never had the sort of performance gain from the blown diffuser that RBR had, He didn’t have to change his driving style to get the most out of that & the Renault engine maps.

As such the banning of those things & effects the lower rear grip/downforce are having on this years car’s hasn’t affected him as much as it has Vettel & so he’s been able to jump in & just drive as he always has while Vettel is having to change his way of driving again to get used to the way things now are.

Vettel will figure things out I’ve no doubt in that & I expect it to be soon. He will win races this year & I fully expect him to end the season ahead of Ricciardo in the championship standings & he will win more championships in the future.

14

Specifically regarding comments about Vettel been shown up as been overrated, His success was all about the car & was a fluke etc…

Utter Nonsense!

Contrary to what many ‘fans’ believe the best car does not automatically give you success, You still need to have a great driver in that car to get the maximum out of it.

Great drivers will take ‘the best’ car & dominate with it, Good drivers will simply do OK & average drivers will be average in it.

Vettel certainly didn’t have the best car at Sauber yet he still scored points on his debut, Regularly ended practice session at the top & clearly stood out as been a big talent.

The STR he drove in 2007/08 wasn’t the best yet look what he did with that, A pole/Win at Monza & many other top performances where he was right up towards the front.

Even at Red Bull there have been times when its not been the best car or where other cars have been on equal terms with it yet he’s still won races/championships.

The people who still think Vettel to be ‘nothing special’ will think that regardless of what he does, They will ignore anything & everything which shows him to be one of the best & instead highlight the things which back up there opinion.

Go back to 2010, These same people were going on about how he couldn’t race/overtake. They ignored all examples of him racing/overtaking & just focused on the 2-3 examples where he made mistakes.

Through 2011/2012 he proved them all wrong by pulling off some brilliant overtakes yet you still hear people going on about how he can’t race.

Vettel could start beating Ricciardo, Finish ahead of him in the championship standings & the critics will still find a way to dis-credit it.

The people who just don’t like Vettel will never rate him, They will never give him credit, They will always have a reason as to why he wins & for them it will never be because he’s really good.

Was exactly the same thing with Schumacher & there were people out there who believed the same with regards to Senna.

15

If Ricciardo ended up passing Alonso on the last lap, it would have been invalidated due to the early checkered flag and he would have lost a second podium through no fault of his own again. So in the end maybe good that Vettel held him up??

16

It’s interesting to see people talking about Seb turning nasty. It’s easy to put on a nice face when you’re winning. When you’re competitive enough to get into F1, and then into a top team , and then when win championships not winning is pretty sucky. Hamilton is going round saying “I’ve never been this happy” and various others look utterly miserable. This isn’t a surprise – or at least it shouldn’t be. Some Hamilton fans haven’t forgiven Alonso for how he was at McLaren when he wasn’t strolling to victory, well … it comes with territory.

Some drivers (Seb, Jenson) like their cars really nailed down at the back and do better relative to the others when that’s what they’ve got; others do better relative to the others when they’re a bit loose. Seb hasn’t got on terms with this car; maybe he will maybe he won’t. And the advantage does appear to lie with Mercedes.

I’m still interested in what happens among RBR management, if a driver doesn’t do as he’s told to the they sanction the driver or the management quit, or are team orders seen as things you can stick to or not , like FIA directives and contracts of employment.

17

Seb and Jen are not racers… they need to have have a massive car advantage, so their lack of skill can be compensated…

Jenson relies entirely on luck and misfortune of others to hang onto F1.

18

Vettel has been exposed… hopefully this will put to bed the nonsense about comparing Vettel to past greats, who actually ‘raced’ to victory…

Driving to detlas is not a skill…

19

James

I am noticing a lot of irrational arguments here and not enough facts. Can you help to shed some light for us??

1) what other issues other than skill can be olding back Vettel? Is it the so called engine mapping?

2) Can you explain for those of us who are not experts – what that means “engine mapping”? and isn’t the engine mapping already fixed and therefore there is no room for improvement?

thank you very much from a non expert

20

I’m looking into it myself

It’s to do with modes for energy regeneration under braking, delivery of power

He’s not lacking skill, it’s getting comfortable with the way the car works. Raikkonen is also having problems

I suspect Vettel will be consistently ahead of Ricciardo in the next month of so and then onwards

21

DAN THE MAN!!!!!

22

If dan is that much better and vettel has been such an average driver… It shouldn’t be a problem for dan to simply overtake vettel… Right? Or m I missing something?

23
kenneth chapman

@ ahmed you are missing something. defensive moves can ruin a close run race insofar as passing on a ‘carpet’ of marbles can be problematic without taking into account the tyre degradation that also ensues.

ricci finally got vettel when he went too deep and daniel seized the moment ensuring a clean pass. if you believe that vettel ‘allowed’ ricciardo to pass then you are dreaming. vettel used that excuse for his own ends…not for the team.

24

I get that but my point is this, dan needs to make a statement by means other thn a radio call

25

Lol @achmed (phlegm)

We saw the merc boys go head to head in bahrain, another race tht comes to mind is hungary 2011 (or was it 2012) where jenson and lewis were attacking each other for the lead. dan is in th big league now… We expect him to let his driving do the talking, yes he ws much faster thn vettel in the last 2 races but he needs to complete it with an on track overtake.

26

There may be pre-race instructions to not pass the lead RB car, so Dan calls in to see if it is okay to pass.

Or, like I suspect happened with Bottas and Massa in the team orders they had, the following car catches up with the leading one, and checks in to make sure that passing it won’t compromise the strategy of the lead car.

27

In a perfect F1 world where driving directly behind another car doesn’t cause tyre degradation and unsettle the car’s aerodynamic efficiency, I fear you are correct. However, we currently don’t have this F1 world right now…

28
kenneth chapman

achmed, he did make a statement after the race in the paddock interviews.he was asked to comment on the fact that vettel supposedly moved over to let him pass eventually but ricci then said, diplomatically’ that i’m not so sure about that? i think he went too deep’.

ricciardo could easily have made a meal out of it all but he played it down. well done daniel.

29

I like the new vettel. his ‘tough luck’ comment was funny and i think he is often misunderstood. He obviously did move over so seems like he was just having some fun.

I wonder if the tragedy that happened to his mentor has given him cause to reflect on his approach to life and F1.

30
kenneth chapman

yes mem, he should take note and retire while his career is still intact.

31

I think he’s under so much pressure… And he doesn’t look particularly happy…

He’s body language after quali was pretty telling – he looked shocked that Ric had got him by 0.6s…Though i’m not sure whether SV made a mistake..

I dont think babies and MS have had an impact… They say that in bike racing that babies cost a second.. Thats only because of the danger, where these alpha males would probably fuel them more.. Certainly it’ll make him a man..

32

Seb’s results so far this underscore why, even when he was winning world championships, many rated Alonso the better driver. Without the dominant car, Seb looks to be uncompetitive. Proof? His near rookie teammate is smashing him.

33

Vettel sucess and his titles were simply down to RBR and webber not being good enough to challenge vettel except 2010. This season with a car which lacks a little bit of rear downforce and all of sudden vettel is no where near Dan Ricciardo.

Many see Dan ricciardo performances as suprise and vettel will come back at him later this season. However i am cert more than 100 % Ricciardo will not get overawed by vettel at all and he will continue to put vettel back in his old place

More of the same please Daniel, you beauty…

34

Lol comeback at the end of the season you said same in ’12.

35

Hello there.. i just want to share my thoughts on the “seb is a fraud” talk here because of his struggles this year for lack of ebd. Well, if someone mastered a technique for his entire career and suddenly it gets banned, so obviously the person who used it most to his advantage will inevitably be the one who is gonna struggle the most. I just think he needs time to master the new regs.

36

In 2007, the switch to Bridgestones and McLaren rendered Fernando Alonso’s infamous aggressive-understeer-inducing-turn-ins ineffective (which he enjoyed in Renault w/ the wider and squarer Michelins, and one of the many reasons why he could not so easily out-perform his then rookie team-mate [aside from the fact that Hamilton is very very good]). But then, he was still very very competitive through out the year. Point is, there will always be changes that will not be to a particular driver’s favour, but it is up to him to make the adjustments.

There is no doubt Vettel is a good driver – he has 4 world championships as proof to that, after all. Problem is, so-so performances like this when driving a less than ideal car (and when things aren’t heavily in his favour), only fuels detractors’ claims that he (Seb) is nothing special without the car advantage. I think, this was already somewhat proven in 2012: when Red-Bull didn’t have a clear-cut car advantage, Seb struggled to find his form which enabled a more consistent Alonso (in a slower, yet bulletproof, Ferrari) to run him very close for the title. It was only in the latter part of the season – when Red-Bull finally out-developed the rest the front runners – that Vettel was able to perform consistently by tying-up a string of wins and podium finishes. But even w/ the late charge, Seb might have even still lost that title had Fernando not have those run-ins w/ the Lotus drivers (partially the Spaniard’s fault)… All bec. he could not maintain a high level of consistency when his car was not the best out there.

37

Good point. But there is a difference between ALO-HAM 2007 and VET-RIC 2014. In 2007, HAM had already driven bridgestone tires, so he didn’t have to adapt any more. In 2014, both RIC and VET had to adapt, they both started from the same point.

Imagine what would be happening now if RIC had already experience driving these cars… Or imagine the ALO vs HAM if HAM would have had to adapt to the Bridgestone tires also, and not only Alonso.

Plus Hamilton is Hamilton, and Ricciardo is not Hamilton… 😉

Alonso’s talent is far greater than Vettel’s. It is evident by comparing the adaptability of each driver, which is a signature of talent.

38

“Alonso’s talent is far greater than Vettel’s. It is evident by comparing the adaptability of each driver, which is a signature of talent.”

I would rather have Vettel’s talent driving for me than Alonso it migjt take him time to find the optimal setup but when he gets there he his phenomenal.

Whereas Alonso drives same throughout the year and only Ferrari’s reliability keeps him in the game.

39

I think seb is still competitive, i mean he is not perfroming like kimi at the moment. Lol. Nownthat is what i call uncompetitive. He is still on pace but the problem is he is not performing like the way we are used to. I mean nobody said lewis was a fraud after being beaten by button 2011.

40

You’re not the only one thinking that, but the question is once he does start to get a handle on it will he start to beat Ricciardo or is Dan genuinely just faster?

41

A lot of people seem to be comparing this (and kimi and massa), to multi 21. In my view, they could not be any different. In M21, both drivers were told to turn down the dial. MW did, SB didn’t…it wasn’t a racing moment. It was a deception. And all the blah blah that went on afterward from SV took him down a few pegs, not as a racer, but as a sportsman and brought the sport into disrepute.

I agree they should all be allowed to race, in fact I think there should be penalties for “not racing”… For the good of the sport, we shouldn’t be discussing a drivers intent!

42

And as an Australian, and a MW fan, I wouldn’t have minded it one bit if SV had simply said ‘Tough Luck’ with a wry smile after taking the place in the Multi 21 incident. The other stuff he went on with and then changed over to something quite bizarre took him down the pegs that you mention. But I’m sure SV learnt from all of that also. The voice I heard on the radio transmission broadcast to TV here in Oz (the Sky feed) sounded like an overly frustrated SV being given one more problem. And sometimes frustration like this makes one work too hard to fix problems and simply get nowhere. I’m sure SV will learn that too.

43

Not bad for a No.2 driver, Seb

Will we hear this again at RBR?

44

As a proud Australian I am pleased to see Daniel doing so well. Personally I think this debate is all the doing of Red Bull Racing there should be no place for team orders in racing as a true team everyone should be aware of the team tactics prior to the race, so they would know if one driver will be quicker during a certain segment of the race and not to impede that driver, however once all tactics have played out and we are in a straight race for the line, then the racers should be allowed to race end of discussion. Granted if we are at the pointy end of the season and one driver has a chance of winning the title and the other does not, the team should instruct the second driver to assist his team mate any way possible to ensure he wins but this should be discussed prior to the race and everyone know their responsibility to the team. Here is a change to F1 regulations I would like to see, reduce the amount of communication between teams and drivers, and limit it to exclude team orders as such only allow clear instructions like box, change mapping position and time, laps remaining, and feedback from the driver regarding performance or damage, and leave the drivers to get on with it, if that then results in a driver not behaving in the best interest of the team, take him to one side after the race and adjust his attitude behind closed doors.

If the driver in front of Daniel was anyone other than his teammate this would not be a story at all.

45

Every time they ban team orders the teams find a way around it.

I don’t like them either, but it’s better to have them transparent.

46

It seems Vettel held Daniel up enough to deny him a podium finish, but what a disaster it would have been to get a podium and have it taken away because of the flag marshal waving the checkered flag early.

47

It’s strange – I’m kind of disappointed and relieved at the same time, and Dan would have been wondering when he could get a podium they’d let him keep.

It’s maybe better this way 🙂

48

Vettel lost between 2 and 3 seconds to Alonso during that time, according to the Race History charts

49

Interestingly, Adrian Newey didn’t go to China. He was back home with Mark Webber in the Porsche 919 pit at Silverstone!

RBR is doubtless working flat out right now with Renault to give the RB10 the additional engine grunt that they desperately need for the next race in Spain. Within the engine homologation rules, of course.

I suspect they weren’t expecting Dan’s vastly superior drive to Seb’s in Shanghai and they now urgently need to figure out how to best manage their 2 star drivers (and 1 giant ego!) After all, they achieved enough harmony between Seb and Mark to win 4 constructor’s championships…which is where the big money is in F1.

I think we could see RBR right up there again in 3 weeks’ time. And, probably, with Dan ahead of Seb again. If RBR can’t work their magic on the RB10 by Spain, they will probably have left their run too late to challenge Mercedes this year.

Cheers,

Ian

50

Hi James

I don’t really know anything about the makeup of the teams that come to the races, outside of the pit-stop engineers, and a couple on the pit walls.

Is there an actual team of “strategists”, 1-4 people, that become superfluous once the drivers decide they won’t listen to team instructions.

51

There is a chief strategist at each team and he has support from engineers in the Operations Room back at the factory (with the larger teams)

He works with the race engineers to define and execute the strategies. Remember he is working for both drivers in a team, so he has to have a split brain!

52

Okay. Thank you for that!

53

One doesn’t have to be very smart to understand what happened
Vettel first tought Ricciardo was on the same strategy, and righteously denied giving the position. When told Ricciardo was on a 2 stop, he gave the position away by not fighting it back
[mod]

54
Tornillo Amarillo

James, is Baby Vettel the reason of this unimpressed start of the season for VETTEL?

55
GP Back To Adelaide

Maybe it was a water birth and Seb has been spending too much time at the pool? 😉

56

i doubt it. That was in the days when the cars were dangerous and unsafe

57

Surely it could be a distraction though.

When he left the Jerez test early this year (admittedly the car wasn’t exactly going very far…) I remember that being different from the Vettel who was the only driver to visit the Pirelli factory in 2011 or bothered to do the mid season Silverstone test last year when all the other race drivers considered it not worthwhile.

58
kenneth chapman

@ random. like you i am an unashamed supporter of ricci. the point is this. if vettel is, as horner blatantly states, ‘a team player’ then his own [vettels] acknowledgment that dan was faster but that he held him up flys in the face of horner’s weak attempts to hose things down.

you can’t have your danish pastry and eat it at the same time.

59

Ahhh…now I see 🙂

Vettel was being honest when he said “tough luck”, so no pretending to misunderstand team orders there – at that time he had no intention of letting Ricciardo through.

Then the team spent a couple laps talking to him and explaining the strategy, at which point Vettel did let him through…by making a mistake 🙂

What you say about Malaysia is true and the way he handled that whole situation post-race was terrible, but I still think he learned a bit from it.

There was a bit of PR spin, but at least there was no false apologies this time 🙂

60

“you can’t have your danish pastry and eat it at the same time”

‘Course I can, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of ordering the Danish pastry in the first place.

Maybe I should clarify myself a bit:

I still think Vettel was justified (at the time) and I give him credit for his no apologies yes I ignored team orders approach (this time).

The problem as you say is Horner trying to suger-coat it, and clearly no-one is buying that line.

Vettel learned to be honest about his actions, Horner should do the same.

61
kenneth chapman

@ random79….maybe this is where we have a minor divergence of opinion. you see, i don’t think vettel is being honest at all. how was it that he took almost two laps to consider and make up his mind? then on top of that ‘he moved over, bang’.

if you watch and listen to the post race interview ricci, when questioned about that move and vettel’s supposed acquiesence to the team orders, ricci clearly but diplomatically does not really think so!

i think ricci observed vettel going too deep and he seized the moment then vettel tried to use that as foil to his intransigence, which horner lapped up.

vettel is dishonest. malaysia and the multi 21 fiasco proved that point conclusively when after the race he feigned an apology to webber then a week later said webber desrved it and he would it again if he got the chance! if that isn’t a dishonest approach then i don’t know what is.

the fact remains that ricci is making vettel look ordinary ATM. that may not last and i am sure that vettel will kick back, one way or another.

ricci is not bullet proof by any means but just so long as he continues to keep on keeping on then that is great for us followers/fans and F1.

62

We all knew that Vettel would struggle without being able to copy Webber’s car set ups. Throw in his inability to adapt to the technical changes as quickly as his team mate coupled with a team that is now actually prepared to fully back the second driver is showing Vettel up for what he actually is as a driver. Average.

63

I’m loving it at the moment Dans got the upper hand! but it s only going to get better when Vet comes to grips with the new car, what racing we are going to see between team mates. Can’t wait!!!!

64

Best bit: watching VET get done by a Caterham (tyre situation aside n’ all) – still satisfying…

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