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Ferrari will not reprimand Massa for ignoring team orders in Japan
Scuderia Ferrari
Massa Alonso
Posted By: James Allen  |  14 Oct 2013   |  4:17 pm GMT  |  204 comments

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali says Felipe Massa will not be reprimanded by the team after he ignored team orders during the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

On lap eight, Massa, 32, was running ahead of Alonso when the Brazilian’s race engineer Rob Smedley gave him the instruction: “Multi-function strategy A. Multi-function strategy A now please,” over team radio.

Massa, who is racing for his career as he has yet to secure a seat on the grid next year, chose not to move over, however the Brazilian was later overtaken by the Spaniard on lap 20 in a legitimate pass after Massa made a mistake on the exit of the final chicane.

Domenicali said: “At the end of the day Fernando overtook him on the track. For sure Felipe is trying to be as quick as possible and I understand his feelings. He will find the team totally supporting him up until the end of the season with no problem.

“We brought home what was the maximum and there is no story to create around these things because there are other things we need to focus on, including how we are going to improve the car up to the end of the championship.”

Massa went on to finish 10th at Suzuka, after a drive-through penalty for speeding in the pit lane ruined his race, while Alonso finished fourth to keep the title race alive going into the next race in India.

Massa said he spoke to his team about the incident after the race. “It was an instruction,” he said. “I am never happy with an instruction. We already discussed it, but for sure it was an unfortunate race today because of the drive-through. It was not an instruction when he overtook me on the track. The instruction came much earlier.”

Alonso said that there was not issue between himself and Massa after the incident. “We cannot make a big thing about this,” he said. “We are racing and whatever we do today, we finished more or less in the same positions because we could not achieve anything more. I don’t know exactly what happened, but there are zero problems.

“It would be nice to go back to the old days of Ferrari, where we were fighting for first and second, and then decide who wins. Or do what Red Bull does, when one car does two stops and one car does three stops, and they finish first and second. This is a much easier life.

“In our position we are always trying to do our maximum. I am trying to do my maximum, Felipe is trying to do his maximum and the team is trying to do its maximum.”

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204 comments

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1

Despite being a fan of Alonso, I do feel he doesn't need Massa to move over for him. So thumbs up for Massa from me for disobeying team orders.

2

At least he had the chance to disobey orders, unlike Webber who was just yanked into the pits to make way for the golden boy!

3

Yanked into the pits because he couldn't look after the tyres, is more like it.

4
yinka olu-oguntokun

lol. only because 'golden boy' is so good. you forget they are driving the same car!!!

5
Yinka Olu-Oguntokun

The world is full of conspiracies. This is not one of them. Webber is not nearly as good as SB; however, if it makes anyone feel better to think otherwise, go right ahead. It's your prerogative.

6

Do YOU know it's the same car?

LOL

10

Yeah, next time Felipe should push Alonso out of the track. It will be fantastic to see Montezemolo's reaction.

11

What you are suggesting is an action that would potentially attract a black flag, or even disqualification from the rest of the season for Massa, which is quite absurd.

When I said Massa do not need to move over for Alonso, it is in no way whatsoever against the rules or the action being unsporting, it's just part of game in racing to overtake someone for a position, whether that be your teammate or a competitor from another team.

Should Ferrari or Alonso feel he should take the position (for WDC or WCC), he is good enough to make a move on Massa rather than having the position gifted by his teammate. By saying this I'm not suggesting Alonso cried to the team, it could well have been a team decision which Alonso wasn't aware of, the point is, Massa is as much of a competitor as any other on track. If Alonso can't take the position, then step up and make the move stick (by hindsight he did on Lap 20), which I personally feel he is fully capable of.

I'm a fan of Alonso, while I also like Massa, but I rank fair play above all else.

12

Webber took a long time to get past RG in a vastly quicker car, so Alo did pretty well to beat his team mate in an identical one. The point of the order was that someone felt it necessary to give it and FM should have immediately complied. I understand FM has his pride but he's not racing for his career. After a decade in the sport he's a well known quantity. It was just pointless him holding up Alo. A Vettel DNF or a safety car could have made a big difference to Ferrari's day, and FA wuld have found himself on burned out tyres, courtesy of his team mate.

13

Overtaking a driver with the same car is ridiculously difficult at Suzuka. What Alonso did is amazing, but from the point of view of the team (any team) highly unlikely. Actually he was able to overtake due to Massa following slower cars (Ricciardo blocking Hulkemberg), which allowed Alonso to close enough and take advantage of a slight mistake in the last chicane, by which Massa couldn't exit with good enough traction.

14

While Alonso is spending time and ruining tires Massa didn't prove anything. It was just lose, lose combination. Massa lost his mojo long ago and he is just a latent image of the former self.

15

A quick sacking and loosing any chance of an F1 drive me thinks.

16

If alonso was good as many claim, he should have qualified higher. This proves one thing, since hockenheim alonso has only "beaten" a disheartened 2nd class driver!

17

Is that why he is also second for the WDC and while driving a much slower machine than the Red Bulls? Which other driver, besides Vettel, has gotten so close to winning the WDC?

18

Sure max, FA is P2 in the WDC because all those former champions are 2nd rate. Pass that joint buddy.

19

Joe, if you really want to go by whats unfair and fair, lets go to interlagos 07 and the illegal fuel used by both bmw's, that would now make hamilton a double world champion! something you alonso fans would not take very well!

20

Do you feel the same about Kimi?

21

Spot on....it doesn't matter know when there is little to compete for with title and constructor's warpped up but the fireworks will start next year when Raikkonen does n't let Alonso get it all his own way. I hope McLaren don't repeat the mistakes of the past by re hiring him.

23

That's exactly what the majority of the other pilots, team principals and F1 experts think. They also think that Santa Claus comes to their house.

24

hello Joe, this isnt stock cars. goodbye

25

Hello Max, if this was stock cars, which I particularly do not like much, at least we would see:

The organizers not changing rules in the middle of the season.

Clear footage (all angles, slow motion, HD) of the last race of the season, especially in laps where a huge amount of fans believe there were yellow flags...

28

Hi James, 2 questions:

1. Why do you think Ferrari felt the need to issue the order, given that Alonso has no chance of winning the championship?

2. Do you think Massa was right to disobey?

Thank you for the blog!

29

They are still fighting for second in the constructors so if they felt Massa was holding up Alonso then maybe it was a fair request.

30

If Vettel for some reason does not finish the last four races, e.g. illness, then Alonso has to get maximum points to overtake him. Do not forget, this is F1.

31

Constructor's championship

32

No, the points would have remained the same.

I think they were covering a possible Vettel DNF or safety car which basically were the only slim hopes they had of beating RB and Renault.

33

Good lad Fillipe, let Fred have it as hard as the rest of them! He doesn't stand a chance of the title so driving to save ya career is far more important than helping the team who have turned you loose.

34

I guess that "Fillipe" is Felipe Massa, but... Who's "Fred"?

35

Fred is Alfonso

36

Yes yes my bad, lol.

Fred is what the guys on the pit wall called Fernando at Renault. Even seen radio transcripts where they call it him over the radio, even Flav used to call him Fred.

37

Flavio used to call him Fer, not Fred.

In spanish and Italian sounds very clear and not tricking him.

38

Who is Fred?

Why, Fredando Alonstone, silly!

Next years partner to Barni

Rublenonen.

(Trust me; the 'Flinstones'

cars are faster than this

year's Ferraris).

39

Great. Now I'm going to have that image stuck in my head all day 🙂

Only in Felipe's case it will be yabba-dabba-don't 😉

40

Galaps, you need to get out more!

41

Sorry, who's "Galaps"?

42

It's extremely unlikely to ever happen, but I wonder what Alonso's reaction would be if they asked him to move over for Kimi in the future?

43

Im so excited imaginig Brithis anti-Alonso´s behaviour if he eventually arrives at McLaren.

His performances are as solid as titanium, and it has always been like this.

Imagine the maximun stress he had to manage with in 2007 ("we were not racing Kimi, we were racing Fernando"), and finished that season only a point far from WDC.

He will always be there.

44

Pretty simple:) Remember Mclaren/Hamilton saga?

J/k but I am pretty sure he will start playing political games and create chaos to get it his way. Al tough I am not an Alonso fan, I do respect him and regard him as one of the bests. The only thing that drives me away from him is what he does when things are not going his way.

45

It was the other way around. McL gave full support to a rookie instead of supporting a 2 times WDC. DO you ever see that in any other sports? Football, basketball, MotoGP?

WHat had Hammy accomplice so far? How many 2nd places? Alonso has been driving a car that is slower than a truck for the last 5 yrs.

46

As Hamilton and Ron did when Fernando was in Mclaren.

47

Ron's way worked very well with Mika, who was his favorite instead of Coulthard.

48

He's already moving over to McLaren 😀

49

seems so.

they have mutual desire to each other.

51

In 2013, some drivers will not obey a team order that starts with "Multi". 😉

It probably did not affect the race result for Ferrari. The car was not quick enough to beat the Lotus of Romain.

52

It might get to the point we're drivers are so paranoid they even stop taking their vitamins for fear of being passed by their teammate.

53

Really see nothing in it. Did not see any reason why there should be any team orders at this stage. Let them race. Supporting Massa here and pleased that Alonso overtook him legitimately. No discussions will follow.

Ferrari needs to solve their core problems...lack of a winning car

54

If there had been a safety car FA could have passed RG at the end; maybe that's what they were hoping. They're still just ahead of Ren and Merc in the WCC

55

Exactly Hulk, sorry

56

You need to pay more attention then.

Massa had Rosberg in front of him, which is at Mercedes and Ferrari are battling with Mercedes for 2nd place in constructors.

Massa was clearly losing Rosberg and if they felt Alonso could catch him, then why not give Alonso the chance to get in front of Rosberg and bring more points home.

Is that a good enough reason to give the order?

57

In that moment of the race, De La Rosa commented in Spanish Antena 3 TV, that the risk was Rosberg to stop one or two laps before them.

Rosberg did and overtook them both.

And that was what Ferrari was trying to avoid with the instruction, protecting theirs P2 WCC, as you said.

58

Rosberg was infront. You mean Hulkemberg.

59

Why didn't they say "Let Alonso pass if you can't pass Rosberg" then?

60

Agree completely. Alonso hasn't a hope of winning the championship so really don't see why Ferrari persist with team orders. Nothing wrong with what Felipe did at all, he shouldn't have received the order in the first place

61

No reprimand for disobeying team orders.... as if! LdM (and Domenicali) definitely "tweaked Massa's ear" behind closed doors!

Btw, Fernando's comments sounded as if he's practically resigned to his situation, in terms of winning another championship with Ferrari. He's probably come to realise that team orders/team work doesn't count for anything when your team simply cannot build a competitive car.

62
Valentino from montreal

Massa-baby has been moving over for Alonso since 2010 , yet it's acceptable .. But when Rubens pulled over ONCE in Austria it was the end of the freakin world !

63

Sorry but Massa hasnt done much for Ferrari even before Alonso arrived there. Massa is and has always been a 2nd tier driver. He doesnt have the skill, mental toughness and aggressiveness of Alonso. When you are great it shows. When Massa starts 4th or 5th he always ends up much lower than that while ALonso must fight from 8th or 12th place to end close to the front. NUFF SAID!!

64

Rubens did the same hundreds of times for Sch.

65

maybe 2 or 3 times...

66

You are right. I over react.

20 or 30 times, not a hundred.

67

There are times Val that your revisionist history staggers me.

2002, MSc had won 4 races and finished 3rd in Malaysia. With the F2002 he was waltzing to the title and everyone knew that. In the sixth round Ferrari asked Rubens to move over for MSC. Thats why that cause outrage, it was the arrogance of Todt making a mockery of competition.

In 2010 and every season since, Massa has been thrashed by Alonso. Whether that is a direct result of his head injury or just Alonso is so much better I don't know but you can not perform 3 or 4 times a year and expect to get the team in your favour.

People will bring up Germany 2010 continuously as if they have a valid point, but get real.

Ferrari never should have employed Massa, that is so obviously a Todt and Schumacher choice and when LdM signed Kimi for 2007, any man with balls would have welcomed him and proven his ability. We didn't get that and I wonder if Alonso is going to prove he doesn't have any balls either.

If the 2014 Ferrari is run with Kimi and a.n.other, and respect I have for ALonso will go out of the window, still the best since Senna passed but a complete arsehole of a man.

68

Ferrari had to dump a driver when Fred

Alonstone came over. They dropped Kimi.

Why? Because of Todt. Ole' JT had financial

connections with Reubens Il Due.

69
Valentino from montreal

Your allowed to your opinions and have every right to think what you think about Alonso being the best since Senna ..

As for me , like I told u before I could'nt care less about F1 .. I know in-and-out Schumacher's history ... There's one book I recommend u reading and it's : Formula for success, published in 1996 ...

As for the balls part , It's pretty well documented Schumacher's batteries were running low in 2006 , according to him ... Him afraid of Kimi is just your made up fantasy HWS , the only driver Schumacher EVER FEARED was Mika Hakkinen ! Nobody else ... In fact Kimi was offered a drive at Ferrari in the early 2000's , along with Alonso , but both of them said : NO ... Schumacher in his absolute prime would have eaten them for breakfast ... You know it's true ...

In my mind , Schumacher won the 2006 title ...

Switch Alonso in Ferrari and Schumacher to Renault in 2006 , Michael would have wrapped up the title by end of the summer ...

70

"If the 2014 Ferrari is run with Kimi and a.n.other, and respect I have for ALonso will go out of the window, still the best since Senna passed but a complete arsehole of a man"

Stay calm man. Alonso is going nowhere, and he is not an "arsehole of a man". He is going to race against Kimi next year and prove two things: Massa is not a bad driver, and he still is the best of all them. He is going to do that quietly and relentlessly, beating Kimi fair and square on the track. People are expecting fireworks, but there will be none. I like Kimi, but I know he doesn't stand a chance.

71

Last corner of the last lap meant that even dummies could see what was going on with that one

72

By making it blatantly obvious, it meant Barrichello could keep the respect of being the undoubted true race winner. Everyone could see RB was the real winner but Ferrari got the points for the driver they wanted to have them. It could have been done in a very sly way like an 'issue' requiring a pitstop or have Barrichello pretend to make a mistake, but that would have been far more undignified for Barrichello.

Conversely, but for the same reasons, Schumacher seemingly made a 'foolish mistake' at Indianapolis later in 2002 giving the win to Barrichello. Schumacher didn't want to make it so obvious as to patronize Barrichello with the gift, so he made it look like an error while trying to cause a dead heat.

Appearances are everything. Something Vettel needs to learn.

73

Appearance mean nothing...

74

Didn't Brazilians lose faith in Felipe Baby after Germany 2010 though?

75

I liked the wry comment by Alonso about how Red Bull managed to rig the result through the pitstops.

76

+1 He is certainly a sharp observer.

77

+1. I was going to comment the same. Alonso and Webber are good friends

78

The fundamental thing apply :

He who pay the piper plays its tune.

Massa is fully awere of that .

79

Yaaawn.

1st. No one cares Felipe. Don't act tough now, we know you're a team player and it's all for show.

2nd. Why in world would Ferrari even bother issuing orders. It's all so pointless!

80

The funny thing is: Massa is not racing for Alonso anymore because he wants to so how fast he is...

...and he was fith at that stage of the race and finished 10th...

81

Thanks to drive-through, which we saw and which James reminds everyone about.

I'd be more interested where the speed infraction happened, if it was Massa's fault or if Ferrari calibrated his speed control incorrectly. 🙂

Seriously, conspiracy theories are so much fun, there should be at least one article a week dedicated to them. Also, time for F1 sites to have a little fun April 1st. Any why isn't there a user here yet who's name is Conspirator? Someone, step up!

82

Ummm, no... we do not need a bad case of conspiration... 😉

83

Not me, thank you.

But if is there one, supously you two could be good friends. "Ferrari calibrated his speed control incorrectly"???

jajaja

84

The order confirms that Ferrari has little confidence in Massa. The team expected Massa to hold Alonso for too long, only to eventually see him past, while allowing Rosberg to pull away. It was a perfectly sensible strategy from the constructor's championship perspective, and from the past record that Massa falls down the grid fast during the race.

85

Before Suzuka, Ferrari had 1 point advantage over Mercedes in WCC and with millions of $ in the game for 2nd place, I see a huge reason why to bother with team orders.

86

One more thing mister regarding being competitive is in their blood.

I bring you exhibit 17 (just a random number).

Ferrari are in it just to be in it. To be visible and to have the F1 program be a free marketing effort for Ferrari brand that costs them $0 or is even profitable. Sure, winning is nice, but it's not everything or in their blood. I remind you to look at Ferrari before Schumi...was that about 20 or 30 years of hurt?

Anyhow, between FOM money, Santander Money, Marlboro Money, Shell Money - how much out of pocket do you think Ferrari dedicates to the F1 program? Because I guarantee you that the goal is to have the F1 program fully financed outside, that's why a driver like Alonso can come in with Santander money and demand #1 status. WCC may be important to Lotus, but not to Ferrari. They may have to win WCC here or there to refresh, but they don't need to. They have the most WCC wins in F1, and can always hang their hat on that as a brand.

Shake and Bake! That just happened Mister! I pulled the covers off and you see the naked truth. 🙂

87

ALonso is the full package while Massa is a 2nd tier driver. ALonso can get sponsorship from ANYBODY and ANYTIME! We all know that he has been racing while driving a truck yet he ends 2nd to Vettel for the last few yrs? So what are the other drivers doing? When you are great it shows sadly Ferrari hasnt delivered the needed car to get the poles and the wins. Massa has been with Ferrari long before Alonso arrived there. What has Massa done there at all?

88

First of all, Alonso doesn't need a sponsor, but Santander wants to be associated with Alonso and Ferrari. It's a win win situation.

If Mark can get a top seat without funding, or JB, or Nico Rosberg, do you think Alonso needs one? Come on!

Secondly, you are so wrong thinking being #2 or #4 in WCC doesn't matter. You clearly don't know what's the thinking behind a manufacturer team and how much it hurts being beaten on a regular basis by a team which sells drinks.

How do you think it looks for Ferrari and Mercedes being beaten at their own game.

It would be like a Lawyer cooking better food than Gordon Ramsay, or the other way around, in a court, a famous lawyer to lose a case against a self-defending individual. Would you after that go and hire that famous and expensive lawyer to represent you?

You can reply to this, but I'm not gonna answer. I feel that whatever arguments I bring, you will not accept them and still think Ferrari should've left Massa to hold Alonso and by this, allowing Mercedes to finish ahead of them and beat them to 2nd place in WCC.

Have a good day!

89

Mister,

Ferrari's motto may be team comes first to you. But to me it's clearly Alonso comes first. Schumi comes first. Etc. Especially last 2 decades - clear #1 driver.

Ask what makes a team shift focus like that? Sure, you figure if you win WDC you probably win WCC. But WCC win is never that celebrated at Ferrari I feel vs. WDC. Look at when Schumi won the WCC before WDC, of 2008 when Massa was WDC for 15 seconds. Same lack of excitement in the media or by fans for that matter when it comes to Ferrari WCCs.

Let's step back. Get in the negotiation room, and be fly on the wall when Bernie and Luca talked agreements some time back. Sure we don't know the facts, and I agree that Ferrari would have asked for special Ferrari bonus plus WCC standings funds. And if you are trying to convince me that Bernie just said YES! and didn't come back with a counter offer you know you'd be trying to fool yourself and me. I can see right now Bernie coming back and saying, Luca, P1 WCC money each year plus X million guaranted (of course this sum being lower than Ferrari asked, but GUARANTEED each year!) And who wouldn't sign on for that? Awesome deal for Ferrari.

And that is why Ferrari for past 2 decades go #1 driver, all about WDC first and foremost, then WCC. If the WCC was so important to them for sake of changing their payout from FOM they would have been more focused on WCCs at all cost. They would not have had Alonso/Massa not winning WCCs for eons, instead Kimi would have haver been bought out and would have been driving along Alonso to win those WCCs for Ferrari.

Come on Mister, give it some thought and you see that Ferrari is guaranteed money and WCC standing makes no impact on their annual payout from FOM whatsoever. Each year that amount is money in the bank even if Ferrari score 0 points.

90

Yes Mister. Slapped wrist. Big deal...whoppty whoop. Please keep those Santander checks flowing Fernando, and you're #1 on this team...which is basically built around you.

Ferrari don't care as about what Mercedes have as much as they obviously care about what they have.

Anyhow, we obviously see it differently.

91

OMG. You didn't get it, did you?

Yes, Alonso is number 1, over Massa, but not over the team. That's why he got his wrist slapped when he said few months ago that he wants their competitor's car for his birthday.

Yes, Ferrari do get some extra cash for being the oldest team in the sport, but that doesn't matter. No person in their right mind would pass the possibility to get another $4-$5 mil for being 2nd in the WCC. That's the end of it! If you think they would let their drivers race...actually that was not racing. Massa was slowing Alonso down. Alonso was all over Massa's gearbox for ages. So, going back to my point, if you think they will not give team orders and let Mercedes have an extra 4-5 mil for next year, you are an idiot! Don't get this personally Sebee, it's just an expression.

For the past 2 decades, like you say, Ferrari and every other team went with a number 1 driver. It's the best strategy, if it wouldn't be, they would not use it.

McLaren with Lewis and Jenson looked to me to be more equal, but look at what they won. Nothing! Even in 2007, when Kimi won, why did Ron Dennis favoured Lewis? Because in his mind, Lewis was the number 1 driver. You can deny it as much as you want. When the team orders were finally allowed, EJ, DC and even Gary Anderson said these orders always existed. They existed in order for the teams to be able to control the finishing order of their cars and drivers.

92

That's what I am pointing to. That probably Ferrari don't get more money for WCC because they get top money anyway. Why would Bernie agree to pay premium each year and then WCC P1 on top of it to Ferrari? This is why Ferrari never focus on WCC. At least I get the impression it is about WDC for them. They build their entire strategy around that. You do that it if WCC money equal to or better than P1 is guaranteed to flow your way each year.

93

I think you overlooked Ferrari's motto, which is that the team comes first.

Why would they focus on WDC when, since Enzo until now, their whole philosophy was no driver interest is above the team interest?

You're so wrong on this one Sebee, and on top of it, you base your thinking on "probably".

Ok, think about it from a different point of view. Just ignore the prize money for 2nd, 3rd etc. As a team and manufacturer like Ferrari, with their top brand, which in fact is their highest asset, why would you don't care if you are 2nd or 3rd?

Being competitive is in their "blood", in their name, in their philosophy. Every point, every podium, every result needs to be better than their competitors. It's always about maximizing the potential.

94

Do points scored by Alonso count for more than those scored by Massa toward WCC?

Plus, I'm not convinced Ferrari care that much about WCC with their special bonus payout each year.

95

@ Me Reply:

"Per race?…"

PLEASE work on your math. WHat do you think more than twice means?

96

@MISTER

"You might not like Alonso, but the fact is that he brings twice the points, if not more than that, than Massa does."

Per race?...

97

Who in the right mind would not give team orders if they have a chance to get some extra $4-$5 mil in their bank account?

Excuse my language, but you need to be an idiot to say "oh, we have plenty of money, we don't need another $5mil, let Mercedes have it".

Alonso has 207 and Massa has 90 points. So please tell me, who is more likely to have overtaken Rosberg and get the better result?

Come on Sebbe, think a little bit. You might not like Alonso, but the fact is that he brings twice the points, if not more than that, than Massa does.

98

Massa was right to ignore the call, the only thing he did wrong was to heed that similar and now infamous instruction at Hockenheim in 2010.

However the fact that he was even asked speaks volumes about the structure and quality of the Ferrari management.

I really hope Felipe secures a good drive for next year where I think there is every chance he will thrive in the right environment.

As for Ferrari, until there is a complete technical and organisational restructuring I cannot see how such a dysfunctional unit can succeed in F1.

99

@Truth or lies

"I really hope Felipe secures a good drive for next year where I think there is every chance he will thrive in the right environment."

Dont be so NAIVE. Massa has been with the red horse long before ALonso got there. So why didnt he thrive then? Massa must be the only driver on the grid to start 3rd, 4th or 5th and ends up 10th or lower. When FA, with his SLOW MACHINE, starts 7th or 16th he ends up 2nd or 4th place.

100

Which is why James Allison and other have been employed. Why Rory Byrne has worked significant hours on next years car.

101

The Italian team is one of the most political and regimented on the grid. Sure, their engineering and design teams could use some help, but that doesn't make them disfunctional right?

For me Ferrari's issue is that Domenicaly while a lovely bloke has this problem of being a lovely bloke. Todt scared the Italians into working really hard, dare I say it I think Brawn was a bit wary of him too. That fear-factor is now gone and complacency has set in by the looks of it. Montezemolo is trying to instill fear in them again but Monty isn't around enough to be taken seriously by the worker bees. Domenicaly I'm sure is scared of him but the guy doing up the wheel nuts couldn't care less I bet. When Todt was arorund you can be sure that those nuts were tightened super-tight every time because he walked the garage, checked evrything, had a permanent presence.

Ron Dennis had the same effect on McLaren, look where they are now under nice man Whitmarsh.

102

I completely agree!!!.

And fear of, too.

Going from one lovely-bloke-directed-team to a nice-man-managed-one is a big risk for Alo.

I spect he (Alo) will involve someone else like Brawn to make that move.

It is his last chance in this sport.

104

Where are the outcries by the same ones whom attacked Vettel for ignoring teamorders which they pretended to be sacred?

105

The big difference is that Vettel's move was blatantly dishonest. Webber was told to switch the power down, as Vettel was, and that both drivers would nurse their cars home in the same order. The team believed that Webber would otherwise win the race, but the risks of seeing it off were not worth taking. Vettel exploited an unfair advantage.

Massa did not abuse an unfair advantage: he was in front on his own merit at qualification. His fault was to hold Alonso for too long, because, to be clear, the overtake was just a matter of a short time. In any case, at this stage of the championship, team orders like this one make perfect sense, and Massa is a bit desperate to show something. If this is his best try, then good luck at Nascar.

106

Webber had been confirmed by Horner to have used more fuel. If he used more fuel, all in order to be barely ahead, then it is not unfair that the driver who had more fuel, and an extra set of tyres (saved from qualifying) in reserve would use that to win a race.

107

"told to switch the power down".

Shades of two Ferrari chappies

in '82. 😉

108

Nah, wrong answer.

Those same people did not attack Webber for Silverstone 2011, when Vettel's car was wounded (KERS not working, which made the tyres go off sooner too, team screwed up Vettel's pitstop, favored Webber with first pitstop while Vettel had the right), yet Webber still attacked him until the finish while he was told to keep a distance.

He failed to pass even though Vettel had a wounded car and then Webber went on mic and his own blog proclaiming how he refused to accept the team order while Vettel was driving a wounded car. And the 'fans' (read British media and public) applauded him as a hero and said how teamorders are evil.

So the correct answer is: hypocrisy.

109

" If this is his best try, then good luck at Nascar"

Massa out qualified Alonso by almost three tenths. That's really impressive I think.

110

@ Yago

"Massa out qualified Alonso by almost three tenths. That’s really impressive I think."

Wow that is really impressive thanks for sharing that. Why does Massa always ends way below FA? Massa has been racing for Ferrari much longer than Alonso yet what can he show for that?

It doesnt matter how your put it, Massa isnt a top driver and never has been. FA on a similar car to Vettel would be winning quite easily while Massa doesnt have the guts and mentality to get close to that consistently.

111

Is that a rhetorical question? Surely you know the answer - no? Oh ok then. It's because Vettel is not particularly popular. Not just amongst the English speaking fans, either. I would imagine large parts of the Spanish speaking world don't exactly cheer him on. He is not even well supported in his home country, with only just over 50,000 turning up at the German GP on race day!

I don't really know why. I am not a fan but I find him quite personable when he is not speaking corporate.

Hey ho, them's the breaks I guess 🙂

112

But my question is: When is he not speaking corporate?.

They don´t even let him to open a twitter account!.

He always speaks Red Bullshit!!!

113

"Yes! What that guy said! What that guy right there just said!"

Will Ferrel (Semi-Pro) 🙂

114

He he he he

115

First, it is a double standard: People are generally more sympathetic to Massa than Vettel.

Second, Massa ignored team orders by not actually doing anything. Vettel ignored them by attacking his teammate.

Very slight difference I know, but it's there.

116

People were up in arms at the start of the season because Vettel ignored a team order.

Why is this different?

117

When the number 1 driver benefits from an order it's just annoying. But, when the secondary driver finally catches a break, it is good to see. Simple. And understandable, unless one is an equal opportunity elitist. The same type of person who thinks a billionaire and the average-Joe should pay the exact same tax rate.

118

@ Wade Parmino

"When the number 1 driver benefits from an order it’s just annoying. But, when the secondary driver finally catches a break, it is good to see."

Totally agree but Massa hasnt done ANYTHING for himself or the TEAM all these years for Ferrari. He was there long before FA arrived at the team. So why hasnt he dont much better? He is the ONLY driver who consistently starts 4th or 6th and ends up much further than that. He doesnt have the toughness or mentality to be a top tier champ.

119

In this case, the best thing for the team to do was for Massa to let Alonso through, as he was holding him up and potentially costing the team points. At Malaysia the race was over, there was no benefit to the team if Vettel won instead of Webber, it was all about Seb looking out for himself.

Also, as other people have said, there's a lot of difference between being asked to hold station behind a driver and being asked to move out of their way when you're ahead on merit.

120

There's a lot wrong with that. For starters, it made no difference to Ferrari in the end. Alonso and Massa finished where they were going to with or without team orders. It's not like Massa cost Alonso a podium spot.

And Webber was not ahead "on merit" in Malaysia, he was ahead because of team orders. For about 20 laps prior to his overtaking Webber, Vettel had been obeying team orders to stay behind him while complaining that Mark was going too slow.

121

@Andrew M

Webber did not get the jump on Vettel at the start of the race. He jumped ahead through the first pitstop phase when it was wet, despite Vettel having a 4 second lead going into that (Webber battled a front wing-less Alonso for 2nd on the first lap).

122

There's nothing wrong with it at all.

Firstly, Alonso was down in sixth when the team order was issued, with Massa behind Rosberg making no impression on him. The team clearly felt Alonso was faster and could challenge Rosberg later in the race. They didn't know that Rosberg would have his various problems and lose position. Therefore, there was a chance they could finish fourth and sixth as opposed to fifth and sixth if they held the status quo until the end of the race. In other words, there was a benefit to the team in terms of WCC points in issuing the team order, which wasn't the case in Malaysia.

Secondly, Webber was ahead on merit, he got the jump on Seb at the start and was comfortably ahead going into the final round of pit-stops. It's only because Red Bull gave Vettel the optimal strategy going into the final round of pit-stops to cover off Hamilton (and because they knew they were going to issue the Multi 21 order) that they gave Vettel this treatment. There were no team orders until the Multi 21 order was issued, which happened after the final pit stops.

123

Of course there was a benefit in Vettel winning. He's won the last three championships, Webber is the second driver and proven time and time again that he's not talented enough to beat Vettel over the course of the season.

124

There's no reason for either driver to be favoured in round 2 of a season.

And Webber hasn't been compliant with team orders in the past either, this ides of Vettel suddenly breaking a trust is ridiculous.

125

That's pretty spurious, even the Red Bull pitwall didn't agree with you that Vettel should be favoured so early in the season.

Also, in Malaysia Vettel betrayed a trust between himself and Webber, which Massa didn't do here.

126

You need to look at it from a team perspective.

In Malaysia, the RedBull cars were running 1 and 2, therefore 43 points. Whoever was in front was making no difference in terms of total points for RedBull. Agree right?

In Suzuka, Ferrari had 1 point advantage in Constructors championship over Mercedes and Rosberg was ahead of Massa and getting away. Massa was losing time, and Ferrari wanted to give Alonso the chance to catch Rosberg and get more points. Looking at the last 4 seasons or 2013 alone, Alonso ussually brings more than double the points that Massa does, so it would seem logical to give the chance to your faster driver to catch the Mercedes.

Hope I explained this clear enough 🙂

127

Hardly surprising. The Vet brigade clutching at straws to clean up their hero's image once again.

1. Multi 21 was a pre-race agreement willingly entered into by both drivers

2.In Malaysia, Vettel asked the team to move Mark over which shows a sense of entitlement

2. Vet and RB ambushed MW

3. After the race Vettel pretended he didn't know he was supposed to honour the agreement and apologized.

4. Vettel reversed himself two weeks later and said he would do it again because Mark never supported him anyway.

5 Compare this to Massa who, 3 or 4 weeks ago, more or less came out to say he wouldn't obey team orders

6. After the race Massa didn't pretend he didn't understand team orders

128

Massa is contractually obligated to follow team orders and move over for Alonso. He willfully ignored an order from management, you can't have a driver doing as they feel.

People were calling for Vettel to be suspended or stood down by the team, so Ferrari should treat Massa the same. The situation Massa has created at Ferrari is completely unacceptable. Just who is running the team?

129

@Tyemz - What "ambush"? If Webber couldn't see Vettel when he came out of the pits, or didn't anticipante that a race was going on, then he needs his eyes tested. And who cares if it could have been Webber's last win in F1? Why should he be getting gifts in race 2 of a 19 race season?

130

You're funny :))))

131

All you Vettel defenders have it wrong.

It would be a similar situation if:

* after the final pit stops, Massa was still leading.

* he was given a communication that he can "nurse" the car to the finish and he will keep his higher finishing position.

* he gets overtaken by Alonso who does not, nor is instructed to, hand the place back.

132

Still clutching straws much? This is a guy who is the very embodiment of a team player, who moved over for Kimi when it mattered most, who obeyed team orders even when they were outlawed, who took a gearbox penalty to ensure his teammate started on the clean side of the grid. He disobeys team orders just this once (and with good reason too) and you are desperate enough to compare him to a guy who shamelessly ambushed his teammate to take what would probably have been his last win in F1 and who acts like his teammate should be grateful for just being in the team? Let go of those straws they are very fragile

133

Frankly, there is no difference. Where are the calls to ban Massa for one race? I recommend we should ask John Watson and Jacques Villeneuve for their "expert" opinion on this matter.

I would be very interested to hear what they have to say.

134

Jacques Villeneuve is a raving lunatic when it comes to opinions about F1 today.

135

The reason is, they allow their bias to shape their opinion - [mod]
It's human nature, every single decision a human makes is based on emotion (there is no logic at all).

137

First of all, it should be shame to give any orders for this undermines FA capabilities..second, they need to get used to this for KR is not going to obey any in 2014..third what do ppl in paddock and fans have to say now when someone else disobeyed orders apart from Vettel??

138

Just like Kimi never moved for Massa? I think you will find that both Kimi and Alonso will do what is necessary and what the team asks should it ever get to that. I seriously doubt that Ferrari will ask either of them to move unless one is out of the WDC running and the other not. Always been like that and always will be.

139

Kimi did move over and helped Massa, so what makes you think he won't do it for Alonso?

As long as it's reasonable and his chances are over, why not?

140

@MISTER

Who said that was anything to with team orders?

141

yeah, but that happened when Kimi was Mathematically out of the WDC.

This year, Kimi is Mathematically out of championship after last race at Suzuka.

So certainly, don't expect anything like what happened in Germany 2010.

142

Re point number 2:My thoughts during the race as well.

Alonso needs to learn that he won't get help from the pitwall next year.

143

He should have done something like this a long time earlier.

In Germany 2010, there was only 30 points gap between the two, and it wasn't even half way stage. So Mathematically, Massa was still in the fight for WDC.

But then after that incident, may be should have sought a drive for other teams, & he may not have found himself in a position in which he finds himself now,unable to find a seat for next year.

144

It was the 11th race of a 19 race season..

145

But Mathematically he was still in the fight for WDC, so why move over when you still have a chance?

146

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the lack of outrage here... When VET did this people were calling for his head and saying the Horner was an ineffective leader, etc. The response is awfully muted in comparison.

Separately, I have to wonder what could have been with MAS. Sadly he has found his voice too late. I think Senna said it best: "You must take the compromise to win, or else nothing. That means: you race or you do not."

Unfortunately for the last few year MAS has not been racing. MAS was so completely and throughly marginalized by ALO for so long I think he lost the will to fight. Same could be said about WEB albeit for different reasons. I think he would have loved to take the fight to VET, but was gutted season after season eventually realizing that he didn't have it in him to beat VET. I also think ALO is starting to go through a similar period with RAI coming into the team and the vote of no confidence that Ferrari has made in him. The psychology of it is fasinating and would make a fantastic read.

147

Massa stopped racing after Germany 2010. Alonso's motivation must be pretty low now, since he's on the verge to change team yet again.

148

@ Fireman

" Alonso’s motivation must be pretty low now, since he’s on the verge to change team yet again."

You would too when your team keeps giving you a truck to race instead of a fast machine. Yet he keep sfinishing 2nd to Vettel. So how are the other drivers feeling?

FA is a champ till the end and he wants to WIN. Ferrari had let him down by not producing a competitive car.

149

Vettel has not been fired - work it our

150

Perhaps it's more simple than that: Fernando is better driver than Felipe. Regarding Kimi, well you speculate, I don't.

151

So, where are all the people who were incandescent with fury that Vettel ignored team orders? After that one glaring exception to the rule we seem to be back to the normal state of affairs, where the great majority of fans think that ignoring team orders is either no big deal or is even a *good* thing.

152

@SteveS

So, where are all the people who were incandescent with fury that Vettel ignored team orders?

Oh come on Steve, you know where they are. It's because (for whatever reason) Seb isn't popular, so posters take the opportunity to have a dig. That's why you have to spend so much of your time telling us all off 🙂

153

The same people are here, but they can open their eyes and analise the situation, unlike you, who thinks it's only black and white.

If you would open your eyes, you might see that Massa was holding up the proven fastest driver in a Ferrari, while Rosberg ahead was getting away. With only 1 point advantage over Mercedes, Ferrari needed to finish ahead of Rosberg and their best chance was Alonso.

Yes, Massa did not listen to the team, and I'm sure he is going to get an earfull, but Massa even said a few week ago that now he is driving for himself. He did not agree, like Vettel, to a "multi12" or "multi21" code and then break that agreement. I suggest you open your eyes a bit.

154

@MISTER - There is nothing to say Vettel actually agreed to anything. He broke team orders, but there's nothing in particular over Massa that he did wrong.

155

I have re-read my post and then read you reply and I am puzzled. Did you mean to reply to me? Most of your post refers to something completely different to my comment??

156

The situation was different in the vettel vs webber situation. Back then both vettel and webber received instructions to hold positions with webber even turning his engine down. At that point vettel took advantage of a defenseless webber. So you see it wasn't just one driver not heeding orders but a driver who knew of an imposed limitation on his team mate's car and stole the place.

157

Webber wasn't "defenceless". He seemed racey after the final pitstop, when Vettel was right next to him. He seemed fine when he actually used DRS to come back at Vettel on the following lap, but couldn't get past. The only manner Webber could have been considered "defenceless", is that he had used up more fuel than Vettel as confirmed by the team post-race. Vettel was just faster.

158

@SteveS

With me at least, believing that Red Bull has for three years supported Vettel over Webber, THE ONE TIME that they appear willing to give Mark a shot at a win without interference, and Sebastian apparently agrees to the arrangement before the race, that's why I could be more upset over the Vettel team order "scandal" than this one here.

Though, if it makes you feel any better, I am multiple-times more furious about Ferarri sabotaging their own drivers' gear box in Austin, than the Multi 21 thing.

159

It wasn't "a shot at a win". Webber has won 9 races, and had many, many other "shots". It was an attempt to gift him a win.

160

"believing that Red Bull has for three years supported Vettel over Webber"

People believe the oddest things. Why "three years" though? Vettel beat Webber in 2009 and 2010 as well, were those not due to "support" from Red Bull?

161

You're right, they did favour Vettel in 2010. Thanks for putting him right on that point.

162

For everyone blaming Alonso :

Was it Alonso asking for the team order or was it Ferrari themselves as they are still fighting Mercedes for 2nd place in the championship ..?

163

It was Ferrari. Alonso didn't know exactly what happened right after the race.

164

I'm sure if Alonso had requested any orders the audio or transcript would have surfaced by now.

165

Given the fact that team orders are now legal, why do teams persist in giving coded messages that are deciphered easily?

166

I assume they think it is bad PR to be seen to issue team orders.

167

It's so that all the fanatics don't get outraged about the moral implications of it all...

168

I suppose, but the "codes" don't fool anyone, this article is proof of that.

169

Andy-baby. Multi-function P/R.

Sponsormoney is behind you.

Sponsormoney is faster. Do you

understand?

170

hahaha, love it.

stay cool we are getting you the clear visor!

172

Nearly wet myself great comment

173

An honest 8/10 for this one! 🙂

174

That's what Ferrari engineers have been doing lately after upgrading the car to perfection; they're planning to print the new prancing horse code words and sell it to the other teams.

175

Really wish they would ban 2 way radio except when the driver is in the pitlane to discuss any changes or tyres etc (could be linked into the limiter button) or only if there is a dangerous thing on the car which they can you use a special override that's monitored by the FIA.

At least this way the driver makes his own call without some engineer miles away at base moaning about front brake temps or other nonsense.

The driver can radio in to the team if he decides he's pitting or has a problem though

176

so will Massa get booed if he ever wins another race?

177

Based on the opinions above no, somehow many people think this was too much different to the Multi21 and what Vettel did was the most horrible thing a driver have done in F1, on the opposite, this was just an innocent move by Massa.

178

"Vettel did was the most horrible thing a driver have done in F1"

Only if you pray at the altar of Alonso/Hamilton, nobody else cares really...

179

It was a sarcasm, but it seems that some people here actually has that altar you mentioned.

180

its easy to see why ferrari issued orders, they are trying to maximize their constructors points, with merc very close in points. Its logical to say both cars in consecutive positions yields same points, Its common sense to switch cars to see if other driver can have a crack at car in front, in which massa failed they can maximize the points. Also massa was holding up alonso, they lost a position to hulk already.

181

Well done Felipe

182

To me there's a big difference between being asked to hold station, as Seb was at Sepang, and being asked to move over to let your teammate by. Apples and oranges in my opinion.

183

Whoever signs Massa should give him a zero hours contract because he only performs well when his job is at risk.

184

I just can't understand why any other team would even want him. His glory day's are long gone and never to be repeated.

Massa said recently that he has alot to bring to another team. My question then is why hasn't he brought that to Ferrari in the past 4 years?

185

"I just can’t understand why any other team would even want him"

Well, I don't think there are many drivers capable of out qualifying Fernando Alonso. The guy is seriously quick when he is on it. And in my view lately he has been racing well too. With a good car Felipe could do pretty serious things.

186

@Denis

"..Alonso is probably the best racer on the grid, but qualifying is not his forte."

Is very difficult to do that when you have a very slow machine 🙁

Ferrari keeps letting him down yet he stills gets to be 2nd.

187

Anybody that follows F1 knows that Alonso is probably the best racer on the grid, but qualifying is not his forte.

188

lol - good one and fair point.

189

Should we all now start booing massa when hes on the .......... Never mind : (

In all seriousness why is it when SV obeys a ore determined team order its the end of the world and when FM and MW do it they are heros?

I'm not a huge fan of team orders unless a driver is going for the title but they have always been part of F1.

190

The answer is simple, because Vettel is not their favorite driver, their favorite driver is not winning and they get frustrated.

191

“It would be nice to go back to the old days of Ferrari, where we were fighting for first and second, and then decide who wins. Or do what Red Bull does, when one car does two stops and one car does three stops, and they finish first and second. This is a much easier life.”

Is this an actual quote from Alonso?, because it highlights two things.

RBR deliberately took the win from Webber,and Alonso expects to be handed a win.

Yeah, Kimi will be a piece of cake.

Good luck with that.

192

I couldn't see the point in team orders at that stage. Alonso didn't have the pace to make massive gains and wasn't dropping away from the pack he was at the back of.

Ferrari seem to have a knack of applying team orders at really bizarre or inappropriate times. Hopefully they will learn that their current weighted policy completely towards one driver doesn't work. Red Bull seem able to operate a much more effective system where both drivers are relatively free to race (conspiracy theorists aside).

193

I agree with you that Ferrari do seem to be quite 'flat footed' with tactical calls in general. However, their greatest success in recent times (probably all time) was with MSC and I guess that is why they continue to pursue their policy of favouring one driver. Looks like that will change next year - I can't imagine Kimi rolling over very easily.

194

I am wondering why Ferrari used the phrase "Multi-function strategy A", rather than "Felipe, you need to let Fernando passed."

Do they want to avoid bad PR? Unlikely, as everyone understood the coded message anyway.

So maybe they did it because they had a feeling that Massa would not obey the team order. Using a phrase as they did, both sides could save face, as Massa could always claim afterwards that he was not sure what they meant.

What do other people think?

195

"I am wondering why Ferrari used the phrase “Multi-function strategy A”, rather than “Felipe, you need to let Fernando passed.”

Because "passed" would blatantly be the

in-correct word to use. The Ferrari chaps

may be Italian, but they do wish to let their

grammar school teachers know that they learned

"past", when they "passed" their English

lessons. 😉

196

i hate team orders. But this is a team sport.

With Ferrari fighting for 2nd in the Constructors against Merc and a seemingly resurgent Lotus, they need all the points they can get. Thier main scorer has been Alonso, not Massa.

Therefore the team order to get Alonso up the road and onto Rosberg's gearbox to try and take points off Merc.

If Massa goes "rogue" now, Ferrari could lose out on 2nd place, and (in my books) he'll show he's not really a team player...Hockenheim 2010 (and Brazil 2007) notwithstanding.

I reckon he should be getting the same pasting as Vettel did for Malaysia...or is this a case are "all men are born equal, some are just more equal than others..."

At the end of the day, Ferrari need a competitive car. Point.

197

Hi James

Do you have any information about tensions inside Ferrari? between whom there is a dispute and what's the reason of that?

198

Everyone dis-likes everyone else.

199

after he was fired from Ferrari, Mass said : from now on, everyone works for himself.

200

Ferrari is structurally wrong. Domenicali is a problem.

"...If I ran Ferrari and was paying Alonso however many millions of euros a year he is getting, the last thing he would be doing would be sitting in the garage for half of the last session before qualifying when you know you are lacking pace. ..." by GA.

201

As team orders are now allowed, why do they have to use a stupid coded message? Perhaps it would have been too simple to say "move over Felipe and let our favourite driver through"! Well done Felipe for sticking to your principles, and good luck next year; I hope you have a car that can beat the Ferraris.

202

this is why domenacali has to go. not hard enough. toeing company line. how could that result be maximum? alonso at eight laps is a totally different ball game at 20.it gives the others a 12 lap window to power down and move away. ferrari deserve to lose. they are playing a different game now that alonso has shown their poor car up. redbull play favourites and are quite open about it. stupid stupid...

203

im getting quite tired of f1 in general. Been watching gp2 as its more about pure racecars and pure racing. Quite fast too. F1 has gone to the pits of late. politics and spoilt brats are killing the sport.

204

lets not forget that massa is first and foremost a ferrari employee. now, last time i checked, if i'm asked to do something by my boss, i am contractually obliged to do it...that's what i'm paid for. same goes for massa. i know he is out of contract at the end of the season, but, alas for him, not until then, and until then he should do as he is told. i wouldn't last long in my job if i did what i want, when i want, with only my own selfinterest at heart. and i don't even like massa. or ferrari.

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