F1 Winter Break
Vettel cuts list of title rivals With Dominant Victory At Monza
Posted By:   |  08 Sep 2013   |  3:21 pm GMT  |  429 comments

Only his own gearbox offered a threat to Sebastian Vettel today, as he produced a faultless drive to take victory at the Italian Grand Prix, with Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber joining him on Monza’s iconic podium.

It is Vettel’s sixth win of 2013 and the 32nd of his career, putting him on a par with Championship rival Alonso at joint fourth in all-time victories.

But after today, the prospect of his Championship rivals other than Alonso has been extinguished and even Alonso’s chances are slim; Vettel extended his Championship lead to 53 points over the Spaniard, more than two race victories, with seven races to go. At this strike rate he could clinch his fourth consecutive world title in India or Abu Dhabi.

Lewis Hamilton, now 81 points behind, told the BBC that his challenge for the title was over while Kimi Raikkonen fell to 88 points behind after an uncompetitive showing.

The German had several problems to manage today; in addition to his tyre issue, he had to short shift as the gearbox again showed signs of frailty. Red Bull had been given permission to replace the 5th, 6th and 7th gear ratios before the race by the FIA, due to damage.

It had seemed prior to the race that only rain could disrupt Vettel’s rhythm and offer those behind a chance of a race win. But a small shower in the build-up to the Grand Prix quickly evaporated and allowed for all cars to begin the race on dry tyres.

From the start, Vettel looked to make a slower start than Webber alongside him. But as Webber’s path was closed by the polesitter, he came under pressure from a pair of fast starting Ferraris.

Felipe Massa made a brave move around the outside of the first turn and slotted in behind Vettel for second place. Alonso, from a fifth place start disposed of Nico Hulkenberg but could not make his way past Webber.

Once DRS was enabled, Alonso was able to close on Webber. With an excellent move around the outside of the Roggia chicane, Alonso took third place and set about chasing Massa for second.

He made the move with little resistance from Massa at turn one. Massa confirmed that he had been ordered to let his team mate through.

Throughout the opening stint Vettel opened up a lead of five seconds over the chasing Alonso, before the single stop that the race necessitated.

Vettel had to manage the front right tyre carefully, having flat spotted it with a rare mistake in the first corner; under pressure from Webber and Massa he locked up into the first chicane and he was told throughout the first stint to look after the right front tyre.

After pitting for fresh tyres on lap twenty-three, Vettel could unleash the pace of the Red Bull and began to stretch his lead over the longer-running Ferrari of Alonso. Alonso opted to remain on track until lap twenty-eight, losing time to Vettel in the process and almost losing second position to Webber. But his tactic was to have fresher tyres at the end.

The second half of the Grand Prix saw Webber close on Alonso but never offer a serious threat to his close friend. This was due partly to the Red Bull pair being told to short-shift and avoid putting unnecessary strain on their engines.

It was Webber’s best finish in the Italian GP at his final European race in Formula One.

Beyond the top three, Felipe Massa had a strong drive to fourth place. He handed second to Alonso before his stop and lost third through an under-cut by an early stopping Webber for third place.

Completing the top six was Hulkenberg and Nico Rosberg. Hulkenberg was a candidate for driver of the weekend; third on the grid and fifth at the finish in a mediocre Sauber provided the best possible job aplication to Ferrari ahead of their crucial decision on second driver this week.

He was able to match the pace of those around him for the duration and impressively kept Rosberg at bay in the closing laps. The Mercedes driver scored important points for team on a day which saw Ferrari leap-frog them for second place in the Constructors’ Championship.

Ferrari are now three points ahead of Mercedes, but sit 104 points adrift of leaders Red Bull.

It was a strong weekend for the Toro Rosso pairing of Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Eric Vergne; both were in the top ten until an engine issue saw the latter retire from the race. Ricciardo brought the car back in seventh place after keeping a charging Romain Grosjean at bay.

Grosjean, in eighth, in turn came under pressure from Lewis Hamilton in the closing laps. Hamilton started on the hard tyre but was forced in to an early pit-stop due to a slow puncture. From there he completed two stints on the medium tyre, showing impressive pace.

He managed to claw himself back in to the points with late moves on Raikkonen, Perez and Button.

ITALIAN GRAND PRIX, Monza, Race, 53 Laps

1. Vettel Red Bull 1h18m33.352
2. Alonso Ferrari + 5.4
3. Webber Red Bull + 6.3
4. Massa Ferrari + 9.3
5. Hulkenberg Sauber + 10.3
6. Rosberg Mercedes + 10.9
7. Ricciardo Toro Rosso + 32.3
8. Grosjean Lotus + 33.1
9. Hamilton Mercedes + 33.5
10. Button McLaren + 38.3
11. Raikkonen Lotus + 38.6
12. Perez McLaren + 39.7
13. Gutierrez Sauber + 40.8
14. Maldonado Williams + 49.0
15. Bottas Williams + 56.8
16. Sutil Force India + 1 lap
17. Perez McLaren + 1 lap
18. van der Garde Caterham + 1 lap
19. Bianchi Marussia + 1 lap
20. Chilton Marussia + 1 lap

Drivers’ Championship
1. Vettel 222 pts
2. Alonso 169
3. Hamilton 141
4. Raikkonen 134

Constructors’ Championship
1. Red Bull-Renault 352pts
2. Ferrari 248
3. Mercedes 245

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Last of the late breakers my backside. He couldn't outbreak Kimi into turn one again and again, could only do it with DRS and Kers and a better car.

When will the Brits and fanboys admit that although he is very good, fast and aggressive, he is in the shadow of someone faster, more ruthless and more talented.

You know both of whom I speak...


Well, I can't recall a race when Vettel overtook so many people so many times as Hamilton habitually does.

The rule changes can't come soon enough; then we'll see if Vettel can actually race. I'm not convinced he can.


He doesn't need to. That is why he is so good.


Brazil 2012 to win the Championship??

Abu Dhabi 2012 last to 3rd???

Sorry i must be watching a different Vettel...


Overtaking has alot to do with the top speed and traction of the car, and the trend for Redbull has been a slow car in a straight line and Mercedes powered cars has been usually the fastest hence why you see Hamilton overtaking, but when they geared the Mclaren wrong at Monza 2011 Hamilton couldn't overtake Schumi's Mercedes for ages doesn't matter what he did


Well, we will see next season won't we.

Danny boy will, once he gets used to the machinery, be quicker in qualifying than Webber. This is not to disrespect Webber but a realization that (a) as he says 'you don't get quicker with age' and (b) Vettel is at one with the best machine on the grid and has been for some time. Put Alonso or Hamilton in the Red Bull next to him and he'd struggle to take pole as consistently as he does.

Moreover, the evidence exists to show that Vettel makes mistakes when actually racing and when pressured - look back at the video examples you cite and others. If he proves me wrong then fine I'll change my view.

I guess my overall point is about quality not quantity. Had Schumacher not been in such a dominant car during his heyday he wouldn't have the number of titles he has. He could have an off day and still win.

If it was just about quantity then we'd all agree that Schumi was best of all time - but we don't.



That may have something to do with two facts:

1)Vettel is consistently at the point end of the field and rarely finds himself in the middle or end of the pack. Rarely has an off day in qualifying.

2)When he does have to come through the field its even more impressive given that his car (until last 2 races) was one of the slowest in straight line speed.

I would rather be a "fair weather" driver with 3, maybe 4 World titles than a fast driver that has one or no WDC's. Where has Webber finished in such a so called 'dominant" car???


Well, I think you make my point for me. I would suggest that Hamilton (and others including Webber) consistently 'charge', overtake and outdrive their car much more often than Vettel does.

Aside from the two examples you give for Vettel there's not a lot of other evidence for you to produce. He remains a fair-weather driver for now at least.


signed, its a british page, can you expect any less?

Kimi is doing great with the package he has, he needs to go in a bull or a Ferrari...


Why the bitterness? Lewis got the job done and went on to pass a few more.


I follow this circus very closely, but I do not know where your comment is going; could you enlighten?


All I have to say is Ringggg a ding ding ding wooohoooo....

Vettel is such a nice guy. They boo him, make nasty negative comments about him and he handles it like a gentleman. No wonder people are jealous of him.

Soooo very happy for the Hulk.

Stay Nice.


@Cos & @Fister(lol).

I ride Super bikes. I also follow bike racing.

Never ever ever ever would a team ask a rider not to race to the best of their ability. Never ever ever would a team ask one of their riders to take a fall for the other rider in their team/team mate.

In fact in bike racing and to me personally it is looked on as sickening that someone has to be so degraded having to play second fiddle to their team mate as happens in F1.

Motogp has two riders to a team and never would such orders as those in F1 be contemplated let alone actually given or followed.

Vettel is a racer and did nothing wrong in my opinion. The team should never have asked him to do such a lame thing.

ps your reasons for hating Vettel I think are more to do with him flogging your favourite drive than what happened at Malaysia. I mean Webber said he would never follow team orders and in fact disobeyed team orders but then was a hypocrite and complained when Vettel did it back to Webber. Embarrassing & Double Lame for Webber.


"Vettel is such a nice guy."

He is!?

It's as if blaming Webber for the crash he caused in Turkey 2010, sticking his finger up at Karthikeyan, calling him a cucumber/idiot, numerous angry hand gestures at other drivers/during drive-through penalties, Multi 21, telling bare-faced lies after the Multi 21 race, various sulky/angry radio messages some of which even earned a rebuke from Rocky, and tasteless comments about visiting Ayrton Senna's grave, never happened!


so the behaviour of a " Gentleman" is over taking your team mate at the last corner and taking the win, even though your team told you not to?

Trust me the only reason he is smiling is no matter how many people boo...he knows he's got the backing of the RedBull owners and with Adrian Newey and the team behind him he will just go on winning.


I disagree with you. I felt lewis was driver of the day and Kimi was also impressive. Them coming through the field was the best part of the race


pfffft, The driver of the day was either Hulkenberg or if you look at the obvious Vettel, Kimi did well too, Hamilton on a different strategy did he have to change a front wing on the first lap? did he pull away from the entire field with a heavily flat spotted tyre and a dodgy gear box? Was he able to fight with the top teams with a lower midfield car?


Yes as others have mentioned I was talkimg about Hulkenberg. Also Hamilton started on the hards, that itself was a different strategy was it not?


Again, it was Kimi's fault that he bumped out Perez in the first lap. He should he grateful that Eric din't diss Kimi in the press for his fault, unlike how Kimi disses at every other race when the team is caught napping.


Jeff, pretty sure with "lower midfield car" he was referring to Hulkenberg in the Sauber.


Er, Jeff, when Tealeaf talks about "Was he able to fight with the top teams with a lower midfield car?", he's referring to Hulkenberg in the Sauber, not Kimi in the Lotus.


No, he had to pit off strategy for a slow puncture, and had no communications with the pit wall. Both had their problems. Both battled through the field to provide the only highlights of an otherwise processional snoozefest.

Not sure I'd refer to the Lotus as a 'Lower Midfield' car. It's on a par with the Mercedes and usually Ferrari too, and ahead of the McLaren.


Not to mention much fresher tyres, yes the english speaking fans have got to the point they will look beyond anyhing to support him and go around the world and boo Vettel, but it won't change the results, however expect Merc to be really strong at Singapore.


Tealeaf, don't expose yourself here. The tifosis boos anyone other than a RED on the Monza top podium, get over it.

Agreed that booing is unprofessional. However, to blame the brits is not right.


Well I am a brit and I know what thw vibe and attitudes are like, Tifosi never boo'ed Seb in 2011, this current trend is a pathetic display of ignorance, petty hatred and jealousy, its just the same with all the comments about the 'Newey car', all designed to make Seb look bad, but because you lot are saying all the doing all these actions proves deep down you know Vettel is almost unbeatable even if he was driving the Ferrari or Mercedes this year, oh yeah how many Redbull 1-2's have we had when Seb went on to win the race? Not many.


"the same group of English speaking fans go around the world to belittle vettel" you really are in fantasy land.


Well its fact... its happening and it's just fuelling the whole tram's hunger for more success and be ruthless, the Australian crowd was booing Vettel on the Melbourne podium for doing his usual good job and it ignited a fire and at the very next race multi 21 happened, it's a shame the english speaking media/fans have this bitterness but if Seb joined Ferrari tomorrow within a year the tifosi would learn to cheer for him quite esasily as he would deliver the title again, but for the english speaking fans it'll take a decade for their jealousy and contempt to die down, what we are witnessing here is a more dominant champion than even Schumacher and its all happening in an era with so many top drivers, get use to it, the real F1 fans will.


Boo all you want because all the booing seems to fuel Vettel's spirits and fire him up for more wins!!! So keep it up Hahaha.... Keep booing!!!!! Vettel is on his way for his 4th championship win!!!!!


what a load of rubbish. I was at the british gp when he won in 2009 and he was cheered. he was booed this year because of multi21.

you really think it's just brits booing him at every gp around the world? get real


No actually what you and the english speaking media said is rubbish, in case you lot didn't realise Vettel was boo'ed on the podium at Australia as well, this was before multi 21 was it not? Also its the same group of english speaking fans going around the GP's trying to belittle Vettel out jealousy, but its all good it makes his 5th, 6th, 7th title even more sweet, yeah keep on saying its Newey this Newey that, everyone knows deep down Vettel would now wipe the floor with Hamilton in the same car.


in this case I think it's a combination of the whole Multi21 incident but more-so because this was Monza...and it's well known that in Monza the majority of fans are Ferrari lovers...and as FA was the Ferrari driver they cheered for him..hell anyone could have been number 1 and they still would have booed.


Agreed. When you have all the advantages of a Newey car, but still feel the need to cheat your teammate out of a win, you're going to garner a bit of dislike.

Much like his countryman, Michael, he's a fast driver, but a very poor sportsman.


1. Was on outside of corner of Kimi so had to be at least ahead a car length to make it stick against a top 4 driver on the grid

2. He got him eventually

3. Why bring up Hamilton and have a go when he provided (along with the Mclarens having a go at each other) the only meaningful entertainment on a dull as dishwater Grand Prix

4. I see your F1 career is doing well who are you again ....?

Try commenting about something positive instead of having a go at others!


Well Said. Sad to read such a sucker of a comment as the first comment.


Well said if not for Lewis id have rather watch paint dry, lewis had bout 70% of the tv feed cos he was out of position boring race


I thought exactly the same thing when he couldn't out break Kimi.. Haha


Hamilton couldn't out-brake Raikonnen because Lewis was on the outside and Kimi is a brilliant driver.

What I don't get is why you want to knock Lewis? Rubbishing Lewis doesn't help improve Kimi's performance, does it?


Same as booing and trying to belittle Vettel will not improve Hamilton's championship chances...


Or Alonso's for that matter.....





more ruthless-Alonso

more talented-Vettel

Which one?


Actually what I was implying is that Vettel is more talented, faster and now has show himself to be even more ruthless than Hamilton, although of course to his own detriment as seen and heard whilst he was on the podium


sorry Aj if you think Vettel is more talented than Hamilton as lets see what Vettel is like with a top driver next to him some one like Hamilton Raikkonen Button or Alonso? plus he has only ever won in a Adrian Newey car which we all know is the best and has been the best cars for 20 years plus I think Vettels a brat who throws his toys out his pram to much hes not a team player unlike Mark webber who Vettel sh@t on over the period they drove together in the same team

Alexander Supertramp

You can argue forever, I just want them in the same team..


I really enjoyed the Kimi Lewis Battle personally, very close and very fair.


The rest of the grid is lucky that:

1) Lewis screwed himself in qualifying; and

2) He had a tire puncture in the first stint.

Because if you were following his lap times, he was in a different stratosphere from the rest of the field in terms of pace. His pace on the hards was absolutely fine, and he clearly had no problem making the tires last. He easily would have been on the podium without the puncture, and he may have even given Vettel a serious run for the win. He easily gets my vote for Driver of the Day. No one was as quick as he was. What might have been...

Congrats to Vettel on WDC #4. He's earned it.


Hamilton wasn`t fast enough to make an impact in this race. As a matter in fact Raikkonen was having a much better race as his strategy was compromised to more than Hamiltons.

Hamilton ended the race 21-22 secons behind Rosberg, with one more stop. They were pretty much evenly matched during the race except Hamilton was passing baack-markers (easy) whereas Rosberg tried to pass drivers on equal pace. He was held up a little bit from time to time.

Hamilton wouldn`t have been anywhere near the front runners as he ended the race 33 seconds behind Vettel. Coming in at lap 13 he had the pace advantage in his two last stints of a two-stop-strategy.

Raikkonen on the other hand had a two-stop-race without the advantage pace-advantage of a two-stop strategy as he had to pit after lap 1. He was then pretty much on the same strategy as the others, but a pitstop behind.

As for fastest lap you will get that when you`re on fresh medium tyres at the end when all the other drivers are on old hard tyres. No contest really.

Furthermore I sucpect Vettel had a lot up his sleeve yesterday. He cruised for the second half of the race.



Lewis was turning fastest laps at the peak end of a medium tire run. This is the tire that was going off for everyone else- on which everyone was slowing down, including Kimi, that far into a run.

Lewis and Kimi were the two quickest today. To not acknowledge the job that either of those drivers did in terms of their pace is just sad. It's not a matter of "well, they were on a different strategy, so they COULD push." There is also such a thing as keeping enough life in the tire to get the kinds of times that they were getting that late into the run. Both of them would have been on the podium today without the respective troubles they had.


To be fair, if you ignored the first laps, Kimi would have lost only 1 sec to Vettel at the end of the Grand Prix. Lotus data shows. Eric Boulier confirmed.

Now that's driver of the day material here. But again, Vettel had this one in the bag. Kimi could have managed P2.


Sujith, do you know when Lewis re-joined the race after his slow puncture, he came 5.5 seconds behind Kimi? and ended up 2 places before him?


Not knowing how much Vettel pushed, if Kimi did give him a run for his money, Vettel may have pushed his gear box into failure. There are always a bunch of what ifs, and could have beens. The Lotus just doesn't qualify well. Kimi has always been fast on race day.

As Paige says below, Kimi and Hamilton could have been in the podium fight if they didn't have their issues. Hamilton screwed himself in qualifying. I expected another Vettel, Alonso & Hamilton podium.


Vettel was on cruise control for 1/2 the race, whereas rai was flat out.


How is that not proving my point? I said, Vettel could have gone faster. That proves your point. I said Kimi would have managed P2.


Again not to take anything away from Vettel, he was managing a few problems with the car as facts point out. So, he could have been a little faster too. But hindsight is a beautiful thing 😛


Who nos, but rosberg his teammate is such a boring conservative driver, when he puts ii on pole he can storm away with the best of them, but when hes not on the front row he go's no were, I cannot recall a fantastic rosberg overtake, his excuse for staying behind hulk was to save his tyres, for what for gods sake, singapore, the drive home from the circut, I know he has fans on here who rate him with the top guys, but sorry hes a number 2 at best, congratulations to vettal and the bulls, it maybe be boring, but the other teams really need to pull there finger out, its getting embarrassing for them..


Rosberg needs to up his pace..come on..if MS and Rosberg were the drivers in Merc, this season would have been a total failure as these guys can't do the magic Lewis is capable of.


Really with 2 wins by Rosberg even with mulltiple car failures? And also been told to stay behind a slow Hamilton at Malaysia? Yeah Lewis's 1 win due to RBR's lack of top speed and Vettel's broken front win was really magic, so was today's 9th position, I agree Rosberg is nothing but average and was even beaten often by a 43 year old Schumacher, imagine how much faster Schumacher would be if he was still in his 20's compared to Rosberg... keep on trying to make Hamilton seem like something he isn't, its magical...


Well what you said was completely incorrect, he was on a different strategy to the rest of the field running different tyres to the other cars, for example of course he will set the fastest laps towards the end of the race when he's on fresh option tyres whilst others are on older hard tyres, if you put a fresh set of the option tyres on Vettel's car in the last 10 laps of the race and he had a healthy gearbox he would have set laptimes in the low 1:24's and maybe a high 1:23's if he pushed to the limit but then he would have lost the race due to stopping twice, also that puncture was not severe for Hamilton as his laptimes didn't drop off and it was a good time to stop for a 2 stop strategy, in the end he could only finish 9th even with Kimi's front wing damage and the Mclaren's wrong gear ratio setting. Hamilton at best would have been behind Alonso and Webber if he had his normal qualifying, to say he was on a different stratosphere is laughable. In my opinion Raikkonen and Hulkenberg drove a better race and Vettel obviously yet again was was at his mind numbingly best, I doubt anyone can stop him in the forseable future.


+1 "to say he was on a different stratosphere is laughable"

Kimi Raikkonen wins driver of the day and Vettel had this GP win in the bag all along. Minus the first lap incident with Perez, Kimi was looking at P2.


Looks Like Perez is Kimi's bogeyman this season.


Well you forget Vettel's gearbox issues which cost him time. Hamilton was fast but still not as fast as Vettel would've been with a healthy car.


Ham. was on a different strategy, he could push and push all the way.. on newer tyres.


What a pity the tyres prevent 90% of the drivers at any given race doing the same thing.


I don't see any reason to be so impressed by Hamilton's race. He had a very fast car and started in an artificially low grid position, due as you say to him screwing himself in qualifying. If you feel the need to give Driver of the Day to somebody other than Vettel (because, obviously, it can NEVER be Vettel) then there are many more worthy candidates than Hamilton.


No surprise really. I'd bet nothing Hamilton's done has ever impressed you, not even 2007.


God, what is your obsession with Sebastian Vettel man. Are you like one of his groupies or something? It's getting tiresome.


And what about Kimi, Kimi made a great start until stupid Perez simply swirled across him and braked early for turn 1, damaging Kimi's front wing, forcing him into an early pit stop.

Kimi surely would have had a fighting chance for the podium....

Until after Hamilton made his first Pit stop, Kimi was the only person who was faster than Vettel Lap after Lap! It's a shame that he couldn't even get a point for his efforts.

Hamilton later in the race had advanatage of fresher tyres and still Kimi made it very hard for hamilton and it was great battle to watch. Hamilton got the job done, albeit on fresher tyres.

So, he definitely wasn't in different stratosphere and neither was rest of grid lucky!! 🙂


There was nothing wrong with what Perez did. There was a gap, he took it.

If the situation had been the other way around, you'd still be saying it was Perez's fault.


"Kimi made a great start until stupid Perez simply swirled across him and braked early for turn 1"

Agree he made a great start but do you really think that Perez should have jumped out of his way? He was perfectly entitled to move where he did. It was up to Kimi to make the allowance


Perez seemed to have braked early, far early than he should have, Kimi locked his tyres still couldn't avoid him!

Commentators commented the same that It was more of Perez's fault that he braked early, but will be deemed as racing incident....


Kimi also had done KERS issues


I am a die hard Alonso fan, but I did think Kimi most impressive today along with HAM. Kimi posted several FLs on fresh tyres, when he made a terrific [unseen] scythe through the back up to p7. Had to do it all again when he pitted. Remarkable thing was he didn't have kers to help him after the first few laps. Really impressed.

Alonso did the expected great job. But should we have relied on the old Massa tow for quali? He could have started p2 or p3 without that.

Alexander Supertramp

Well, it's difficult to judge. Lewis went on an aggressive option tyre strategy, he could afford to push really hard on the mediums. But his first stint, which was long and representantive, was pretty strong. I don't know if he could have made the podium today, but he had the pace this week-end. I reckon he was stronger than he knows yesterday. He was the only one close to Seb on the hard tyre in q1. Such a shame, lost opportunity.


Kimi 's kers failed during last couple of laps, otherwise Lewis wont had him so easily


Well, the odds say another season and yet another WDC for Vettel.

Driver of the day, that just has to be Lewis. What a guy! What a drive!

He couldn't hear his team pleading with him to "box, box, box!" No, the dude just went ahead to set faster lap after faster lap the more his ineffective radio uttered the word "box." Lol!

How about his overtakes? Supreme. When he is harrying others for an overtake, no one else can switch that car from right to left in the corners and mere inches away from the car in front. Sheer audacity and impeccable control.


lol. Actually his radio was not working.


He couldn't hear anything on the Radio. It was faulty. They had to revert to good old fashioned pit boards for communications.

Granted, Lewis had the advantage that he didn't need to 'drive to a target' in order to save those horrible Pirelli tyres, and that gave him extra pace, but he passed drivers all over the track in great style, and provided almost the only point of interest in a boring, processional GP. Driver of the day for me.

What a pity the championship is all over bar the shouting, and it's likely to be even worse next year. Come on guys - can't somebody else figure out the Aero as well as Newey. It's becoming a farce these days.


Sebee (JAonF1 fan media representative wannabe)

Q:  Sebastian, why was your rain light on the entire Grand Prix?

S. Vettel

A: Two reasons really.  Firstly, as we don't get much camera time up front, I want my fans to be able to spot me in the background of other camers shots.Secondly, F1 is a gentleman's sport, and I'd like to be sure that those behind have an accurate reference of the gap's rate of increase real time.  That's all.

P.S.  Alonso DOTD?  As they say in the California Valley...."Like whatevaaaaa!" 🙂


Funny you should mention the rain light, Hamilton at Hungary 2012 had his rain light on all race where was your complaint there I wonder...


He ain't complaining.


It's been a pleasure hearing from you today.

Good day.


I think you missed the joke!


At least some people got it.



Tealeaf calm down, your man won


Please chech it out all his comments above. Reckless!


Who's complaining?



The movie is 14A. I have to tell you, being a Certified Conspiracy Theorist, and a fan of the movie, Thank you for Smoking, I have some issues about the alternate purpose of this Rush movie.

I almost felt like Marlboro "donated" ah, let's say $50M or perhaps even more to the budget to have this made. Great story and thanks for the F1 movie - I don't mind when cigs I don't smoke pay for something I enjoy. It will be shown in theatres and on TV over the next few years, and today that's the only legit way the Marlboro branding can be shown in media. "James Hunt" is shown smoking all the time, nearly every time, with one scene feeling very artificial as if specifically designed to promote smoking as very cool and necessary.

As for the movie, F bomb dropped about 1/2 dozen times, Vettel likes the index finger but Niki loves the middle and uses it often. A few breasts shots. Graphic broken leg and burn shots along with Niki's treatment. But they spared showing us the eyelid challanges Niki apparently had. James doing cocaine, drinking, having drinks before getting into a race car, throwing up, that's about it. It's all on IMDB in great parental guidance detail as usual. Honestly, I don't think I would show this to a 9 or 11 year old impressionable mind. I'm sure they may come across this anyway, but no need to encourage seeing things in this movie at that age. It's definately a teenage movie and 14A is the correct rating.

Unless your kids play GTA, then by all means. 🙂


Guess TL's employing a carpet-bombing strategy ... no one's safe! 😀

Sebee, how was Rush? It's 14A, uh, eh? Think it'd be ok to take a 9 and 11-yr old to see? Like how graphic do they handle Hunt's "race preparations"?


You are...


I think Alonso didn't use DRS to overtake Webber, just pure skill.


He did hit the front wing of Webber in doing so, but well... :p


He overtook at a chicane. DRS is not available at that point. Seriously....


think so too....drs came one lap later


Considering that Lewis and Kimi were, by far, the fastest drivers of the race (they were practically exchanging fastest laps all through the race), I find it odd that Kimi's race is characterized here as "uncompetitive showing", especially considering that he practically drove with the same strategy as everyone else, only giving others a 40 seconds lead. He certainly would've challenged for the podium without the first corner incident with Perez.


They could both go faster b/c they were on a 2-stop, and spent more time overall on the option tires. Kimi b/c of his own mistake, Hamilton b/c of a slow puncture.

This race desperately needed the expected rain. Both this and Spa were for the most part borefests.


(I'll reply to this earlier comment of yours, since can't do it on your last one.)

You are right, if Kimi drove with the medium tires for the majority of the race, that certainly would've given him some speed advantage. I was only thinking about the stint lengths.


I'd pay just to see Bernie furiously operating a hand pump to get the lawn sprinklers going.


Kimi ran 52 of the 53 laps on one stop strategy (hence my "practically same strategy as others"), and the one remaining lap with a broken front wing. How much longer do you think Kimi was able to run on option tires because of that? The answer is: not at all.


Huh? Kimi started on primes (as did Lewis) and switched to options right away.


What else do you expect from a British journalist ?

Brundle has the most balanced view of all the commentators.


That first corner incident was pure chippolatta.

How is it legal for a driver to cut across the path of a much faster car so they have nowhere to go but slam into the back?

That is causing a collision surely. Why no protest I wonder?


No protest because there was nothing to protest. If Perez had moved over and forced (or tried to force) Raikkonen off the track that'd be another thing. Like for example, Alonso vs Raikkonen in Suzuka last year (although nothing was done about that). What Perez did was move over cleanly into a clear space front of Raikkonen.

Like with Grosjean, just because it involved Perez doesn't mean it was his fault. Believe it or not, Kimi is capable of occasionally making mistakes too.


Had Grosjean been driving it would have been his fault. Kimi screwed up, move on.


+1. Very strange analysis, some would say lazy

unF1nnished business

+1 ...with a KERS problem on top of it!


So, it's over. At least there's the Italian soap opera (Alonso/Montezemo/Raikkonen/Massa) to entertain us in the next few weeks.

Ah, Bernie should pay some extra bucks to Hamilton for the show. He saved us from a tedious sunday morning (here in Brazil!).

Here goes an advice: wants proper racing this year? Go to see MotoGP. Has been a cracking year...


+1 on the MotoGP comment. Effortlessly outclasses F1 in terms of racing spectacle.

But this is an F1 website - and have to agree that DOTD candidates were Kimi and Lewis.


Moto GP has its fair share of processions. Most of the excitement, if there is any, always comes in the last few laps.



That Marquez IS truly the last of the late breakers. I only wish Stoner was there to see how he'd (MM) have faired against the super sonic Australian.


I'm blown away by Marquez. First year in MotoGP and he's beating Lorenzo and Pedrosa, and leading the championship.

I guess Hamilton was the F1 equivalent in 2007.

Let's see if Marquez wins it in his first year. That'll be a first!


I think a lot of that's got to do with the injuries both Jorge and Dani sustained in Germany but the kid's still a brilliant rider anyway.


I will stop watching F1 if the crowd continues booing Vettel.


It's what happens in Monza when the winner isn't a Ferrari driver, and especially when it's the dominating driver who is beating their Alonso. Hell, I'd bet they'd boo Massa if he won.

Yes, it's a bit unsportsman like, but that's Monza for you. It sort of reminds me of the Stanly Cup award ceremony if the away team wins it. But that's more of a -thing- in hockey, the fans boo the away team, but stick around and cheer them on as well.


It's not sporting perhaps, but it's a combination of Vettel dominating the sport at the moment (no one likes to see the same winner all the time in any sport) and, I'm sure, Multi 21 (most consider that not to be fair play).

It's funny now to think that so many people said after Malaysia "if he wins the championship by those 7 points, everyone will forget Multi-21". More likely, it seems, it will prove that he didn't need to pull that move at all, and perhaps he deprived Webber of his last win. Not that he'll care about that, but as people reflect on the season it may make just a little less popular again.


SV moved over for Webber to win 2011 Brazil.

Looks like there'll be plenty of opportunity for SV to move over for Webber this year - if the WDC is wrapped up in 4 races with 3 to go.

But Ricciardo may be in the RB seat by then?


Hindsight is a funny thing. The Red Bull was far from dominant at the start do the season and Vettel had no idea in Malaysia that the balance would tip in his favor so much at that time.


sorry to say, but are you trying to scare people? You think people will stop booking so that you could continue watching? People just do not like the guy because he is full of himself, arrogant and only respects himself. Multi 21....it was his choice to win and be hated.


Well AlexD, I am as calm as one can be.

Senna was loved and rightly so.

My favourite driver of all time in many aspects.

But I seriously can't understand the hatred some people have against Vettel. There are very few to none moments where he acted full of himself or arrogant.

Maybe those people should calm down..it's just so overreacted.

If you know the real reason why he overtook Webber then you can't hold that against him.

And please if you have any more examples please tell me, and don't talk about things he says over the teamradio because in the heat of the moment many drivers say the wrong things.


Really dude! why dont you mention 2012 silverstone where webber disobeyed team orders and raced .why only malayasia 2013.Any why dont you mention 2013 title decider in brazil where webber squeezed sebs car ! why dont you mention that in the same race massa allowed alonso to pass him where as webber didnt and they whole media going gaga that in an inferior car our poster boy alonso lost by just 3 points..why dont you mention alonso blokcing hamilton in pitlane when they were both at mclaren.Why schumacher passing barichello in a ferrari using team order is a damaging to the sports .. vettel not obey team order to race.. yes race! is damging to the sports! (in the same race hamilton benifited from team order ) you know what this ANTI GERMAN BIAS of the british media is what is more damaging .Why do you sing paeans of the hamilton who crahsed massa 6 times ..no less 6 times !! in the same season ! and trying to escape playing the Racism card!

Vettel doesnt make contreversial comments (Unlike alonso or hamilton),races against team mates ( unlike alonso and hamilton who benifit from team orders ) wins fair and square in a team where he registered the first win for a team which hadnt won a race before compare that to Alonso and Hamilton who came from the so called BIG teams Ferrari and Mclaren and couldnt beat him.And yes this newey phenonmennon!! Vettel's Tororosso had beaten the newey designed Parent team REDBULL in 2008 .so what the bigfuss about! your Darling Webber was there a year before but couldnt register a single win! No body doubts KIMI's ability yet why didnt he win when he and newey were at Mclaren for 5 years .that should have been an unbeatbale combo! ..your darling Senna won 3 championship in the same team ..but he is your darling because he drove for mclaren and he is not a GERMAN.I used to support Biritish teams and drivers ever since the criticism of Vettel started i changed my stance.They are sore looooooooosers .Here is a man who has impeccable record both as a driver and as a person .

youngest to score points (In a BMW sauber )

Youngest to score pole (in a toro rosso)

youngest to score a win (in a toro rosso,yes in a back marker tororosso )

youngest world chapoin (in a red bull) three different teams you morons who cant digest his incredible talent

Youngest double and tripple champions and many more

yet that brundle asks is he a hype ! what a joker!For every one incident these buffons (so called expert commentrators like Brundle ) state there are many more incidents and of much larger in magnitude of they poster boys ALONSO and HAMILTON.Button to me is the best british drive who doesnt indulge in the bloody politics.Who thrashed hamilton and showed him his place.can write a book actaully but i have a lot of workload.

I love every thing british except its media.It's utterly biased!


Multi21 what a joke was that.

When you don't know the REAL reason why Vettel overtook Webber then stop talking about it. There was so much more to it then just a racewin.

I can't remember Senna being booed for crashing into Prost in the first corner.

Full of himself?? There are other (top)drivers that have that too, they don't get booed.

Quade is right about the situation of the sport, people (fans) are putting themselves above those that provide the show. They should go home and #^%#$%&#$%&^#%# because they are childish and pathetic.


I can’t remember Senna being booed for crashing into Prost in the first corner..

I was at Silverstone, way back when Senna and Mansell were competing. I think it was Sennas gearbox that seized, and he span off just in front of where I was sitting. The cheers and roaring from the crowd was immense.


Calm down, sir. Senna was loved and Vettel isn't. Now ask yourself why.


Some of those who boo might be reading and posting here. You never know.

Let them know that such behaviour is absolutely pathetic.


Yes it is not fair that people boo him.. but hey, why would you wanna stop watching? I can't even imagine not watching F1. Even if every race was just a procession. I like the way the sport is and I will keep on watching if it changes too 😛


Really??? Why would the crowd booing, stop you watching F1? The crowd neither knows, nor cares whether you like their booing or not.

I was going to say that anyone other than a Ferrari driver (winning) would get booed at Monza but they didn't boo Webber - so I guess Vettel just isn't popular. Hey hoe, them's the breaks 🙂


Vettel might not be popular, but its appalling to boo him for that reason. Its no different from a yob walking down the road and booing all the girls he finds unattractive.

If enough people raise their voices against the growing yobbery fad, then the crowds will surely know and care enough to stop it.

Anyway, I guess the fan quality is a direct result of how F1 is currently packaged as a "show." It is now very attractive to the open shirted, unshaven beer hoards.


You still think those words can't change a thing? Just see how many comments it has attracted.

Crowd booing is yobbery, it would be different only if it was done at the point a bad move was made during the race. Doing it after the race, when Vettel has won fairly is sour grapes, horrid and utterly despicable behaviour.


With respect I don't agree. A yob walking down the street and booing at girls he finds unattractive is not the same thing at all. An F1 driver spends a lot of time and effort to put themselves in the limelight and in return is richly rewarded. The same cannot be said of a young lady minding her own business walking down the street.

Having said that,to be clear, I am not approving the booing. I was just commenting that you no longer watching the races won't change a thing.


Yeah, I'm not exactly a Vettel fan but this is getting a little embarrassing.

(Also, the post-race waiting room chat was cringeworthy to watch as well, Alonso and Webber just chatting away naturally like old buddies with poor old Sebastian looking like a third wheel).


Well Alonso and Webber had a good battle during the race and were obviously talking about that.

Secondly they regularly 'hang out' together at F1 races.


Well, in spa it was Hamilton and Vettel chatting like best friends forever and Alonso awkwardly standing nearby. Kinda funny these situations.


It is a bit harsh on him. He is not a bad guy as such but I don't understand the booing unless people are a bit fade up with his continuos unchallanged success. I think had he head to head with a much better team mate who can make the competeion more interesting, we might not see this booing. For sure the booing is not for his terrible mistake in Malasia because there are many driver who did far worse than that this year notably Alonso.


If they only knew he feeds off it.


Do you really believe that? I would be very surprised if it were true. There are very few people who really aren't bothered what others think of them.


Yes, agreed. On personal/emotional level you're right, he looks surprised. But my point about it not being upset by the boos is on the professional performance level - as in, it's not impacting his business on track.

And really, it's ruining the Podium ceramony, which is a shame. So I hope people knock it off! Pay for a ticket to go to an event to boo because you didn't get what you want result wise? Is this our human "evolution"?


I am not so sure. I thought SV looked very uncomfortable when the crowd was booing. I certainly wouldn't say he was defiant, or feeding off it. Either way, it looks he will have to learn to live with it as I see no sign of the mob calming down just yet.


Look, I'm not saying it's like fuel to a fire, but it clearly isn't upsetting Vettel.

Faced with such a scenario what choices does one have? Either you curl up into a ball and cry that they are booing you, or you stick your chest out, put it on pole, win the race, win the WDC and poke your finger in their eye.

On a human level, sure it's inconsiderate and upsetting - we agree. But it also desensetizes a person and gives one thicker skin. And it is this regular training in ticker skin that Vettel is getting that in the long run will make him tougher. So if you connect the dots, my point is not far off. The Boos are not upsetting him, he carries on without missing a step, and in the process the Boos are making him less emotionally sensitive to outside factors. Basically, the opposite of the intended effect the Boo-ers wish for.

Alexander Supertramp

Just because Christian Horner said it, doesn't make necessarily true you know.. He is a pro and the booing doesn't affect him, but he didn't drive faster today because of the booings he got in Montreal or Belgium or whatever. Childish idolazation by Horner if you ask me.


Perhaps Vettel should have fun with this?

They should make a YouTube video where Vettel goes and Boos people at their job, to show how rediculous the behaviour is. Of course, the video should be a joke and Vettel not actually booing a Barista who gave him regular Latte instead of a No-Fat Milk Red Bull Latte.

1M hits, viral - guaranteed.


Winning 4 or 8 WDCs will not make any difference, MSC won 7 but people talk about Senna, Lauda, Prost. Credibility will only be gained when he drives a car that is on par with the rest of the field, I know I sound bitter, but I'm bored of Vettel already.


Yep, you sound sad and bitter. Someone should call you a Waaaaambulance.

You sound like a child when you complain because someone else is winning so much.

Should they hand wins to each driver on an equal basis. It is a competitive sport.


I'm bored of crying, moaning, petulant so-called "fans" who feel the need to clog up F1 forums with endless blather about how "bored" they are. I don't care even slightly if you're bored. Watch the cartoon channel instead then.


F1 is supposed to be entertaining. In its current format it is not. No one would mind if seb won the race as long as there was multiple battles and dicing for position, wheel to wheel battles fair but hard racing. Sadly this doesn't happen and even the overtakes have become mundane. I want to see drivers pushing on the ragged edge not pushing a magic button and going past ! Name one classic drs overtake ? There are none as there all the same ! Looking at hard fought overtakes i can think hakkinen v schu spa. Webber v alonso spa . Alonso v sch Japan just a few examples all where the driver made the difference not the car or rules. You will tell the difference between a good and great race driver not by the standard drs overtakes but the ones who do it where it shouldn't be possible only a few in my opinion command that ability


Yeah, DRS kills the pass for me. Viewers know it's an artificial mismatch, so no great significance is attached to a successful DRS pass.

There are passes that only some drivers could pull off. Hamilton on Kimi at Monza 2007 into turn 1 is one of the best ever. The Ferrari was slightly faster on the straight ... it was all tow and out-braking.


I wasnt knocking vettel for winning merely implying the race is less exciting with the run and hide method . I like seb and think he's an excellent driver but I would much prefer him battling to a win than escaping and cruising the remaining race kind of like having so much effort to earn it makes it much sweeter. That's not to say he doesn't work for his wins as he earns that position by gaining the gap to the others but if he had a epic battle defending and pulling the odd overtake fans all over would applaud a great race.


"Looking at hard fought overtakes i can think hakkinen v schu spa. Webber v alonso spa . Alonso v sch Japan just a few examples all where the driver made the difference not the car or rules."

If MW "made the difference" with a pass on Alonso coming out of the pitlane, then so did SV, around the outside of Rosberg at Blanchimont in the same race (and beat MW to the win), and at he following race when he got Alonso at Curva Grande, when MW crashed into the other Ferrari.


Its true that people rate Senna, Lauda and Prost at a much higher level than they do Schumacher.

Sadly, its a World of difference when the talk is about cheating and undue advantage.

If I were Vettel, I'd run with Red Bull in 2014, then switch to another top team to prove its not the car flattering dross.


Looks like we have a comedian here. Those three "much higher" than Schumacher, and Vettel "dross".


@Quade - When has a majority suggested that Vettel is "dross"? He's been voted as the best driver bythe team bosses twice and 2nd twice. The only year he wasn't as high was when he was 5th- when he was a 21 year old in a Toro Rosso. Is 8th last year in an all time list by the BBC what you would call "dross", when only aged 25 at the time?

When has a majority of people considered Lauda or Prost to be better than Schumacher? The common names ahead of him, are actually Senna and Clark, not Lauda and Prost- such as in last year's BBC all time ranking, and past all time lists like the one compiled by The Times.


It would seem the vast majority of F1 pundits and fans are comedians then, while you are a "majority" of one. Now, that's comedy.


Lauda better than Schumacher? Who's next? Damon Hill and Mansell better than Schumacher too yeah? This is comical.


"If you were asked to name 3 of the most revered F1 legends, would you mention Schumi?"

Well, yes, despite stats not meaning everything, Schumacher is regularly considered a top 3-4 of all time driver, along with Senna, Clark and Prost.

"Mansell was better than Shumacher...Hill was Shumachers equal if not for an unsupporting Frank Williams denying him the car to prove it."

Mansell and Hill? This is turning into a comedy club.


If you were asked to name 3 of the most revered F1 legends, would you mention Schumi?

Most people would mention:

1. Senna

2. Lauda

3. Prost

4. Fangio

5. etc

That's the plain truth and you know it.


Mansell was better than Shumacher - he also had bigger nuts than Senna - but never had the luck. Hill was Shumachers equal if not for an unsupporting Frank Williams denying him the car to prove it.

They could have had a wonderful rivalry- the Hill/William's- Schumacher/Benetton years were superb after the Mansall/Piquit years they really got me into F1.

Seems so long ago now:-)


Schumacher was obviously brilliant,

However......its not all about titles and statistics.

The F1 audience are more savvy than that, we want to be entertained.

I want to see Vettel pit his skills against a top driver in the same machinery, like Senna like Prost, not like Schumacher.


You do sound bitter, but you also sound clueless if you think that "people" don't rank Schumacher up there with Prost and Senna.


Uh Prost beat Senna on total points both years, in the same car. I realize that total points wasn't how the DWC worked those years, but still. Prost beat a number of champions, or would-be champions, in the same car: Lauda, Senna, Mansell, Hill.

Senna or Prost would've beaten Schumacher in the same car, quite confident of that.


This was in reply to Tealeaf's post above.

Alexander Supertramp

Pretty sure Senna is widely regarded as the best ever, even though he "only" won 3 championships.. Titles mean a lot, not everything, somebody should tell that to V4ttel.


No...people rank Senna #1 and Schumi #2


Prost ahead of Schumacher? Omg...

Maybe you can have the argument for Jim Clark but not Prost no way.


I'd rank Prost ahead of Schumacher any day! And Clark ahead too.


Na just talking about Vettel means there's nothing but hatred and jealousy, moan about the car all you like Hamilton couldn't get the job done in the fastest car last year or in 2007 and nearly blew it in 2008, get use to Vettel winning and Schumi is better than all them you mentioned apart from Senna on which he was nearly on par with, Vettel could surpass them all, 8 titles? pfft if he has the hunger and a bit of luck 10 titles is not out of reach.


Did McLaren win the constructors in 2012?

I must have missed that as looking at the stats it seems Red Bull cake walked that season as they did the other 2 and the second half of 2009! Don't give me fastest car baloney stats don't lie neither does championship winning teams. Ham faired well in a car capable of winning races but effectively unreliability, as well as team error cost points but fair dues to seb that year he drove well and won that on merit! Red bull was and still is a step above the others in term of raw pace


Red Bull as a team beat Mclaren last year. The Mclaren looked the quicker car, but Mclaren wasn't the better team over a season. Hamilton drove well, the team botched it for him. Button drove horrible the first half.


My point being on race day red bull are a decent chunk ahead of the field hence the points tally difference yes the drivers doing good jobs put into that points total but in race trim with fuel to end of the race the car is better. I was disputing his claim that the Mclaren was the fastest car in 2012 by stating facts that red bull won constructors hence his point is plain wrong also to add that the red bull / seb package was and still is the fastest out there


My point being on race day red bull are a decent chunk ahead of the field hence the points tally difference yes the drivers doing good jobs put into that points total but in race trim with fuel to end of the race the car is better. I was disputing his claim that the Mclaren was the fastest car in 2012 by stating facts that red bull won constructors hence his point is plain wrong


Actually it's nothing to do with "raw pace", as the speed trap proves at every race. It's about a driver/car handling combination that is faster around corners. Vettel has mastered the technique of driving Newey's design wizardry in a way that his teammate hasn't.


Again, no matter how many times you repeat it, the McLaren was not the best car to have last year. It was clearly the RB8. Vettel would never swap that car for Lewis' last year, while Lewis would in a NY-second!


That's "everyone" and Niki. Thanks auto correct, you're always there when youi are needed. Like shreds of carbon waiting for a tire.



I am not saying you are wrong, but how do you know what odds the bookmakers would give?


Oh yeah...I heard everywhere that Rush is out Sept 13th, but saw a poster today that said 27th! Wonder why the delay?


This is good. Vettel the has won 2012 beating another WDC in a better car. More credit to Vettel.

Just came out of the movie. Good, but I wonder if it has what it needs to be a massive commercial success? For sake of F1 future fans, I hope so. Everyone I talked to so far I've asked 2 questions. Do you watch F1? Did you like the movie? No and yes are the answers nearly always, which is good. We will see it anyway, buy key is for everyibe else to.

I just wonder how Ron Howard, 3 stars and Nick Lauda being in the theater along with James Hunt's family gets the audience more committed to like the film? In any case, second F1 movie in a short while. I hope people see it, enjoy it, make it commercially successful, so that we have a third movie soon.


Uh, fastest at points, and best, are not always the same. As for your second point, you do not know that, cannot know that. Don't pass off your opinion as fact. Throw a "probably" in there, and it won't sound as dumb.


Actually its widely acknowledged by most analysts that Mclaren had the fastest car for majority of the season last year, also if you put Vettel and Hamilton in the same car the bookmakers would make Vettel the favourites for the title.


Schumacher in 1995, 2000, 2003, Vettel in 2010 and 2012 (considering that in 2010, he was dragged back on par with reliability issues).


You do sound bitter. Senna, Prost and Lauda: they won championships driving terrible back-of-the-field cars, didn't they? Give Vettel some credit; as a small example, Hamilton could have been challenging for the win today, but he made a mistake in qualifying. Vettel didn't make mistakes. The driver does matter.


If anyone thinks Hamilton could've challenged Vettel for the win, given the pace of their cars, they're dreaming. What the low-downforce tracks (CAN, BEL, ITA) have shown is that the race pace order on them is RBR, Ferrari, Mercedes. Last year, McLaren won all of those three, this year it's RBR.


You are just bitter, Kimi and Lewis were beaten by their team mates today but its ok because they are providing more entertainment, doing overtaking on fresh, soft tires ? Its easy to overhype mediocrity with the help of the press and lots of excuses.


You mean they talk about them in the same sentence as the winningest driver in F1 history?


Sorry I don´t think Vettel had several problems. It didn´t look like that at all! Lewis and Kimi faced real problems. Lewis got a puncture and radio problems. Kimi had a crash, lost his front wing and also his KERS was a headache for him.

Alonso had a good race, fighting to keep P2. Anything better than that was just utopia. And despite any controversy the Tifosi showed a lot of suport for him


I think with team radio so prevalent these days any problems get amplified, like Vettel and Webber short-shifting, and on a day when the lead driver is so far ahead it gets a lot more notice to try and add an element of drama.

To be fair the short-shifting they did was costing them time, and probably cost Webber a decent shot at second, but it made no discernible difference to Sebastian.


Can someone please explain exactly what short shifting the gears actually is?


Changing up before the optimum moment at the top of the rev range


To german RTL, Horner told the short shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear cost Webber less than a tenth of a second a lap.

Furthermore no real problem with the gearbox of Vettel, just being cautious.


Well, given how long Webber was stuck behind Alonso (must have been about 10 laps), that could have cost him half a second or so, and a possible shot at Alonso given how close they were at the finish.


"but it made no discernible difference to Sebastian"

...you need to ask yourself why it made no difference to him, I'm sure you'll figure it out...


I meant in terms of race results, doing this made no discernible difference to the usual "turn the car down" instructions that would be given to anyone in that situation of leading a grand prix by such a comfortable margin.

Alexander Supertramp

Nice to have Kimi and Lewis in the backfield, they provided great entertainment. Battle for the top steps was pretty boring..

Can anyone argue that RB is by a mile the best car? This is supposed to be a track where the RB9 should struggle, yet it wins with great ease. Red Bull geared the cars very well, but really made the difference on far superior aerodynamics through parabolica and the lesmo curves. Those 3 turns are of major importance due to the fact that they provide the momentum to 2 important long straights. I'm sitting here thinking those cars just can't be completely legal, the difference they make through the bends is insane..


"Can anyone argue that RB is by a mile the best car?"

If the RB was in fact "by a mile the best car" then Webber should have finished second to Vettel. That is what "best cars" do.


The reason why Webber does not finish behind Vettel every time, is because Webber is not upto it, for whatever reason Webber's performances have dipped since mid 2010, Why? is it because he felt Redbull weren't worth giving his all for considering they treat him as a number 2 driver? or is he just past his prime? I think the answer is somewhere in the middle


Steve S,

100% Agree, the following facts prove your point:

-Red Bull has never finished 1st and 2nd in constructors championships

-Webber struggles to consistently match Vettel, remember Webber has beaten all previous team mates inc Rosberg, Coulthard and Heidfeld.

-Newey has never won 3 WDC's or WCC's in a row ever!

Vettel despite his success remains very underrated... This will change in time


Newey was chief designer or the 96/97 Williams and 98/99 Mclaren. That's 4 WDC's and 3 WCC's in a row, between 2 teams and 3 drivers! Haha


... and Williams won the WCC 3x in a row from 1992-94 in Newey cars.


Ahmed, a question ... why didn't Vettel win in 2009?


@ Steve S

Please watch the race again

Webber finished third and crossed the Flag only a second behind alonso. Webber drove very well in the race. Webber tried to overtake vettel and failed to do so. Yet he defended alonso very well. Until the Spanish matador pulled a excellent passing move on webber.

Webber would have finished second easily. Had the gearbox problems not hampered his race. Webber kept alonso in his sights through out the race.

RBR were miles quicker than any other car in the grid. Gear shift problems for the RBR drivers have reduced the margins of victory. Lewis and Kimi had enough pace to fight for the podium places yet poor Saturday have costed them maybe 2 or 3rd spot on the podium



Leaving aside the irony of your comment. If FA had the pace for a win, why couldn't he close the gap with SV?


@"RBR were miles quicker than any other car in the grid"

That's absurd. Which makes it rather typical for a remark on an F1 forum, unfortunately. If Alonso had not botched his qualifying (again!) and then been kept out too long after SV made his first pit stop, he could well have won this race.


No, Webber didn´t have the same front wing that Vettel had. That difference could be seen all weekend long not just today. I don´t blame RB. Webber is gone and Vettel is the one fighting for the championship


Well Webber's wing got altered further by Alonso.

Alexander Supertramp

We are talking about Webber, who even with a faulty gearbox ended the race right behind a healthy Ferrari, driven by Alonso. Your logic is too simplistic..


The 1993 Williams was dominant, yet they didn't finish 1-2 in the DWC, and only had one 1-2 during the season.

Same with the 1997 Williams (before Schumi's exclusion). No 1-2's during the year either.

1998 McLaren finished 1-3 in the DWC, with five 1-2's.

1999 McLaren finished 1-4 in the DWC, with three 1-2's.

In 2010 RBR finished 1-3 in the DWC, with four 1-2's.

In 2011 RBR finished 1-3 in the DWC, with three 1-2's.

In the Schumi 5-peat, Rubens finished 2nd in the DWC only twice.

In the dominant Renault years, Fisichella was 5th and 4th.

In the current regs era, RBR have had thirteen 1-2's. During McLaren's 4x WCC between 1988-91, including their all-conquering 1988 season, and with the two best drivers in their cars, they scored 17 1-2's (10 in 1988 alone). In Williams' 5 WCC seasons in the 90's (1992-94, 1996-97), they scored 14 1-2's. All very comparable numbers to RBR's haul.


I've seen plenty of genuinely great cars in my time watching F1. The Williams in the early 1990's, the McLaren's in the late 1990's, the Ferrari's of the early 2000's. And the Red Bull's of the last few years look nothing remotely like them. They have never once finished a season one-two. They virtually never even finish a race one-two. They are simply not anywhere near as good as certain rather desperate people want to believe/pretend they are.


His logic makes perfect sense to me, if the car was that much better he would be second.


Can anyone argue that RB is by a mile the best car?

Try having a chat with SteveS - he will argue the Red Bull isn't the best car all day if that is what you are looking for 😉


Vettel is making that Redbull look good, sure they were strong today but look at Spa Webber couldn't beat the Mercedes or Alonso, Vettel won like 11 races in 2011 was it? I can't remember but even that year Webber had to be gifted his win at Brazil, if Vettel joined Ferrari next season he'd be title favourites if Ferrari were half competitive, only a fool would say Vettel is not the best driver on the grid.


"Most would argue that the Red Bull is making Vettel look good."

Which is a poor arguement, seeing how it could just as easily be Vettel making the Red Bull look good.


Most would argue that the Red Bull is making Vettel look good.



First of all if it appeared that I was demanding then please accept my apologies. I was merely asking a simple question - if the Red Bull has not been the best overall car to have for the season so far, then which car would you say was better? I don't think it's hard question to answer at all. It appears its only a tricky question for anyone that maintains the Red Bull has not been the best car on the grid so far this season 🙂


@Omar - By that token, only the most foolish, biased hater would claim it is foolish to call a possblie 4x champion the best driver on the grid. You can have your opinion on who is the best, but it isn't a stretch to call SV the best current driver.


Only the most foolish rose tinted glass Vettel fan would say that he is the best driver on the grid. Can you not see that Vettel is very priviledged to be in a Redbull and unchallenged because Webber really is not upto it, Why do you think Redbull refused to hire Lewis last year or Kimi this year?


@Tim, I don't think he was trying to say that Red Bull are not the best, only that Vettel is making it look better than it really is.

Basically demanding you chose the best car over the whole season, for a season still in progress, where the best team has varied track to track, is a big ask.

Red Bull has been the best these last two races sure, but early season? I would have taken the Ferrari any day of the week (except Saturdays!). Now, it would be Red Bull of course. But come Singapore Mercedes could very well leap back to the top.


I asked SteveS this question and he couldn't/wouldn't answer it (which is why I answered the original post) - perhaps you would be kind enough to answer it instead.

If the Red Bull is not the best car on the grid then, logically, there must be another car which is better. So, if you had to choose another car instead of Red Bull for SV to be driving this season, which one would it be? One car/team for the season, not different ones for each race. BTW, I want to be clear, as I was with SteveS, I do not think Vettel is a poor driver, quite the opposite I think he is a superb driver. But, he wouldn't be looking so good were it not for the fact he is driving a Red Bull.


Guess I'm a fool then (and many others), 'cos I don't think Vettel's the best driver on the grid. Very good driver, in the top quartet of drivers on the current grid. If we rated out of 100, I think he's a 97, but there are others that are 98's. This will become apparent next year if Vettel's ride is as much a step behind the leader's, as it is in front currently.


RB Are not giving Webber the same machinary as Vettel. Ever since the not bad for a no.2 driver comment Webber as struggled for pace compared to Vettel.

Both in terms of reliability and race pace - now I'm not putting anything out there or anything like that but seriously even without crazy conspiracy talk you don't see an issue there?


Well sure but for me it would have been better to enjoy that battle with the two upfront together with Alonso and Webber.


Can somebody tell me what was with Perez swirling across the track and braking early for turn 1?

i.e Kimi locked his tyres but still couldn't avoid hitting Perez!

If these two continue like this they are going to have a history together 🙂

Lotus kindly do something to improve your qualifying pace. In the first stint Kimi was the only man matching and was in fact faster than Vettel, Sad how the race turned out for Kimi. and worst he couldn't even get a point for all his superb efforts to claw his way through the field finishing 5 second behind his teammate with an extra pit stop!

Race was great and frankly made interesting by Kimi and Lewis as they charged through the field and got involved in a superb battle themselves. It was great battle to watch.


All the drivers move left and right and all over to gain an advantage at the start, Perez didn't do anything that other drivers don't do. By the point Kimi locked his tyres Perez was clearly ahead. It's then up to Perez when he brakes and Kimi smashing into him from behind is Kimi's own fault.



F. Alonso: 40 podiums in 70 GPs with Ferrari

M. Schumacher: 40 podiums in 70 GPs with Ferrari


Only difference, that Alonso came in Ferrari when they were at the top, while it was quite a different story with ferrari when Schumacher joined them.

Although with a such big changes coming up next year, there would be no big surprise if a team like ferrari would switch positions with a Red Bull and start dominate in F1 again. But that would be too much of a coincidence 🙂


Interesting indeed, nobody remembers the early Schumacher/Ferrari years of struggle. They only remember the glory years.


I remember them fondly 😀


I meant 70 first GPs with Ferrari


Can you also mention the poles nd no of wins, i bet schumi will be well ahead 🙂


Schumi's first 70 GPs for Ferrari go from AUS'96 to HUN'00; Alonso's from BHN'10 to ITA'13.

Alonso: 4 poles, 11 wins, 7 fastest laps

Schumi: 18 poles, 21 wins, 18 fastest laps

Of course, Schumi was in a car that won the WCC in 1999, and a car that won both the WDC/WCC in 2000. Alonso's always had faster Red Bulls to compete against (and faster McLarens, from time to time), in his time at Ferrari.


Raikkonen finished within 0.3 sec of last point scoring position after dropping to 21st on first lap. No mention?( same story for sky and BBC summary)


they're busy eulogizing about Lewis.


Having dropped to 21st due to his own mistake, I'm afraid.


Having dropped to 21st due to his own mistake.


Perez cutting across track and then braking infront of him was his mistake. Great.


miss by an inch, you may as well miss by a mile;-)


I guess that's just it. No points. Like Kimi said after the race: "If you don't win, it doesn't matter if you're second or tenth."


+1, he pace was as good as vettels. James refers to this as 'an uncompetitive showing'


I think it's safe to say Kimi won't be going back to Ferrari now.


Welcome to Formula “One winner”. Please enjoy the magnificient cars and some racing in the lower ranks. Don’t expect thrill about the championship. We cancelled that some years ago (with an unfortunate fling in 2010 & 2012, when a driver in a slower car almost won, but happily accidents prevented that). It might have been a golden era of F1 with a lot of great drivers and more overtaking because of tires, DRS and the work of the overtaking group. However, it’s quite important to have absolutely no thrill about the championship – which means you’ll need quite a lot of energy drink to stay awake during the demonstration run “pole to flag”

Well, look at the bright side. We’ll get some more time off with the family on Sundays and save a lot of money not buying tickets for races car presentations. Maybe I should put up my ticket for Abu Dhabi for sale...

James Stringfellow

Red Bull this year will continue to spend their way to the front & develop til the WDC is in the bag. They know that next year they may be on the back foot. Shame on the FIA for not levelling the playing field more. One team's continued domination for 4 seasons through effectively having the biggest budget & fastest car is crazy - where's the sport? I understand it's a heavily monied 'team' sport but corporations can get too much control over governance. The much maligned Max Mosley tried to introduce budget caps which would have created a very different & I expect more closely matched series in 2013. There would have been more emphasis on privateer money too & probably less likely teams becoming an extension of a corporate marketing strategy ie Red Bull.


Double diffusers, blown diffusers, DRS, KERS, bans on Blown diffusers, bans on refuelling, restrictions on Engine Mapping, stricter regulations on front wings, skinnier rear wings, limited DRS during qualifying, stepped nose cones, less durable tyres and even exploding tyres this year...

Arguably all of the changes above have been designed to keep moving the goal posts, and some even soley aimed at hampering Red Bull. Yet Red Bull have handled the challenge and have developed a consistently fast car, and no doubt about it, have done a better job than Ferrari, Maclaren, Lotus and Mercedes!

One question to the anti Vettel brigade, would Red Bull be able to do the same without Vettel? i.e. With Webber as lead driver? Would Alonso/Hamilton have the consistency in qualifying and race speed to win 2 out of 3 championships by less than 5 points? 1 thing for sure is Vettel has, i would have doubts as to Alonso's speed in quali to get the best out of red bull, and i would have doubts as to Hamilton's consistency over a full year...

Congratulations to Red Bull and Vettel I say...

James Stringfellow

Yes Vettel is a great driver & a worthy champ, no doubt about it, but that Red Bull is FAST & has been for so long. . .


Your comment made me laugh to be honest... but would you say the same if your favorite driver would be so successful?


Honestly yes, I would say the same no matter who's too far ahead. I don't have a "one and only favorite driver" but like drivers, that has to fight for a top position. My respect for Vettel grows when he has to fight back (like Abu Dahbi and Brazil 2012) and not when he can simply cruise pole to flag (which is not his fault).


Maybe I should put up my ticket for Abu Dhabi for sale...

That would be a shame, the Hotel has really pretty lights on the roof!


Yes, I've got four Abu Dhabi tickets to give away to clients. Can't entice anyone to take them at the moment. Looks like noone wants to be there for the crowning of Vettel, once again?


I'll go.


Another boring race and another boring championship, when will any of the big teams grow a spine and challenge the dominance of Red Bull.

Dominance in any sport is bad for the sport. Vettel and Red Bull may like winning, but when your competitors arent even close, and challenging you, then I think the victories are hollow.

Since its already a foregone conclusion, no point in watching the rest of the championship.


I think the problem is that people seem to want action every lap of every race nowdays. It's not realistic, and it shouldn't be the aim. If it's like that, then it's artificial.

To be honest, it's a long way from some of the total domination we've seen in seasons like '88, '92 and '04 - it's been an entertaining season in my opinion.

Domination from time to time is important because that's what creates excitement from the upset results or when the tide finally turns.

I'd not like to see every race like this one, but things are pretty good in F1 really.

Valentino from montreal

It's like in all other sports !

Was heavyweight boxing boring when Iron Mike Tyson would KO his rivals in minutes during the mid 80's to early 90's ??

Was the NBA boring throughout the 80's when it was always Magic's Lakers or Larry Bird's Celtics who would win the title year after year ? Or Jordan's Bulls winning 6 titles in 8 years in the 90's ??

Is this a European way of thinking that healthy competition is boring and not good ?

It's not like Vettel has been winning all the races and gotten all of the poles since 2010 , has he ?

What I don't like in any kind of sport is the idea of a different winner every year .. That sucks IMO ..

All sports in every decade NEED a benchmark .. Somebody to beat ...Wether it's Vettel , Jordan , Tyson or Schumacher , without the benchmarks to measure oneself, nobody knows WHO's the BEST ...

Long live domination !


All the sports you mention didn't require machinery to be dominant, just pure human achievement competing on equal terms. I don't have a problem with this kind of domination.

Unfortunately F1 is an uneven sport in that you can have some really good drivers, but if they are in less competitive equipment, it becomes a one horse race where the other good drivers cannot influence the 'terribleness' of the equipment, whereas a boxer can train more etc.


Maybe for you...

I like to see racing, one race at a time...

I don't think they'll go any slower, or try less hard, just because of the championship...

Heck, sometimes they really just can think about winning the corner... and I like watching that, so, enjoy your WEs without F1, I will have mine with 🙂


There's someone on another forum with a quote from Prost as their signature that says something along the lines of "We can't drive slower just to make the races more entertaining."


Heard that just before the start of the race, VET hurt his right ankle.

Horner and Newey quickly figured out a solution: They got a chimp from a local zoo, gave him VET's suit and helmet and send it to the car. He (the chimp) had a puncture on his FRT right tyre between lap 10 and 15 but somehow managed to increase the gap. He (the chimp) even managed to do the finger thing at the end.

After the end of the race, VET reappeared to grab the trophy and join the press conference

(Horner and Newey thought that would be too much).

As far as I know, stewards are investigating the case.


-100, please show a little respect, your comment must be erased by JA.

With your comment you are showing your "chimp" being.


Bitter, much? I hope all the "fans" crying about Vettel's winning do what they keep threatening to do and go back to watching whatever sport they used to watch. Because they are a plague on F1 forums.


"...they keep threatening to do and go back to watching whatever sport they used to watch. Because they are a plague on F1 forums."

Sounds just like the type of Vettel "fan" who appeared online 2010 onwards, yet mysteriously disappeared for the first half of 2012. Only to reappear after the 2012 Singapore GP.

Such fans are genuinely a "plague" not just to forums, but to F1 in general. Indeed, courtesy of the internet, F1 has its first true batch of gloryhunters/fair-weather fans. Most of whom will be nowhere to be seen if Red Bull is no longer the class of the grid come 2014.


@F1ista - That's just ridiculous. Vettel, and those who were admirers or fans, didn't suddenly appear or become noticeable in 2010. Nor did they "disappear" in 2012. Troll posts, like yours, are the worst thing in F1 forums, or the net overall.


Well said.


Chimps in F1? was it really?


Are you saying Webber is worse than a chimp?


I know everyone's opinions count but if this sort of a wind up post gets published on JAonF1, perhaps this website is no longer the place for any semblance of debate. Tata

Alexander Supertramp

Cool your jets, he did it in a funny way, nothing disrespectfull or beyond good taste.. I think the moderators are doing a good job keeping the real troublemakers away.


Haha! But, yes the Red Bull is that far ahead of the field.



P.S.: And the engineer said (to the chimp): "This is more than we need.... save you tires".


It didn't look like the Red Bull of Webber was that far ahead of the field.


Front wing damage tends to slow a car down, especially when gear box issues are thrown into the mix. These gear box/kers things always seem to happen to Webber, its so predictable you don't even need to roll dice. His car is very strangely "engineered," don't you think? Lol!


I hear the chimp was worth about 6 seconds over the entire race. A 6 second penalty should do it nicely.


In a thousand years, with many keyboards and chimps to spare, they might reproduce the drivel one has to read on this board sometimes.

Perhaps said chimp will be avaliable to attend the trophy ceremony dressed in a well-pressed monkey suit.


I wonder what Ferrari boyz were thinking. Leaving Fernando out there on worn out set of rubber doughnuts they lost 5 seconds to Vettel after the pit stop. Instead od covering Vettel they were gambling yet again or sabotaging FA's effort. I think this season is more or less wrapped up already. Only two DNF-s for Vettel could revive this, otherwise, finished drivers Championship.


I don´t think Ferrari could have finished better with a different strategy. Vettel is in a league of his own


Indeed he is. You are probably right but he doesn't need their "help" either.


I see Perez finished twice, impressive 🙂


I think that should be Pic (JA?)


All people paying attention know the true magnitude of today's race results.

For all of us not insisting on self-deception, the championship is for all intents and purposes, over for 2013; the only thing that could jeopardize the outcome of the season would be something that keeps Sebastian Vettel from competing, for three or four races, otherwise, no one is going to beat him, this year.

The Newey-Red Bull-Vettel package has reigned supreme in the modern V8 era.

Congradulations Vettel-Red Bull!

With that (the 2013 championships) out of the way, we shall now follow the last really interesting variables, team driver line-ups for 2014.

And the big ticket item there, what will happen at Ferrari, with Alonso dead set against a teaming with Kimi (for obvious reasons), and Massa pretty well at the end of his nine lives at Ferrari.

I am not fully convinced that the Mercedes line up is completely settled for 2014, even though so many people have rebuked me on this supposition.

So the field will now wait with baited breath on the Ferrari moves, and since they really, at this stage, ought to be extensive, it may be a while. After all, would they really announce Alonso and Massa NOT driving for them next year, even though this season is pretty well in the books?

We shall see.

It doesn't look like Lotus will be a preferred team for Kimi, which sets an interesting back drop, for if he doesn't get a drive at Mercedes or Ferrari, will he stay in Formula One?

What of the possibility of a return to McLaren for Kimi?

I don't think either the Button seat nor the Perez seat is totally secure there, either. If McLaren truly NEED to keep Perez for the business side of things, then we have truly come to a crisis in F1, when a perennial champion team has to keep a driver for the financial angle.

I must say I've been quite a booster of Perez after his amazing 2012 Sauber drive, but he has clearly failed to gel at McLaren, and neither has Button demonstrated the kind of leadership through the technical challenges there, this 2013 season; lukewarm is just not good enough for McLaren.

If Kimi doesn't stay, it would be a lifeline to Fernando, who could move back to Renault (Lotus) with some measure of dignity, and still the possibility of lightening striking and a competitive car for 2014.

But McLaren really isn't a viable option for Fernando, after his antics there.

Could Red Bull still be sitting on a potential driver change?

I know I have written about my preference for a Kimi to Mercedes move, but could Mercedes consider an ALonso grab? Doubtful, for while Lewis may be willing to partner Alonso, he is the defacto No. 1 at Mercedes, and I don't think Alonso would make a move to that situation.

There has been a whole lot of talk about Hulkenberg to Ferrari: I think he is a decent driver; I rate him higher, for example, than Ricciardo; and if you are rebuilding, I think he may be as deserving as anybody for a chance, but he hasn't proven anything yet.


Hulkenberg, Di Resta or Kimi to Ferrari will surely nail Alonso's coffin. None of these drivers would play second fiddle like Massa and Ferrari wouldn't want to put themselves through a McLaren 2007/Lewis/Alonso type implosion.

My crystal ball see's either both Massa and Alonso kicked out of Ferrari or Massa retaining his seat as willing number two to a new numero uno.



No one seriously considers Di Resta as a serious option. Hulkenberg destroyed Di Resta in the same car last year, Sutil before that and he is having a tough time beating Sutil again this year, and you think he would even have a chance at being infront of Alonso?




Ferrari president, Luca di Montezemolo mentioned three names as possible signings; they were Di Resta, Hulkenberrg and Kimi. So you've got to take those as the drivers being seriously considered.

Also, the odds that Alonso would be there next season are not good at all. Its likely he'd either be sacked or walk.


what are the statistics on the Hulk destruction of Di Resta?


Buttons seat at McLaren is shaky. He doesn't yet have a 2014 contract and has been openly lusting after the Ferrari seat.

McLaren only took Perez for the money, because any top team would have known that he was flattered only by the tyres. You've got to give him excellent marks for spirit though.

In summary. McLaren has two dud drivers and no motivational force to drive them forwards on the track (witness Lewis 2009 Silverstone donuts for example).

As for Ferrari, the case is really interesting. Its unusual for an employee to call their employer an idiot, yet still retain employment - but that's just a reflection of the Ferrari environment where knives are given as gifts at corporate events. In that light, I expect Ferrari's 2014 driver pairing to be a surprise, maybe even a shock.

If Alonso leaves Ferrari, there will be nowhere else to go. Rosberg is strong enough at Mercedes, Lotus is not expected to competitive in the engine era that's beginning next season, Red Bulls driver line up is done and McLaren would rather hire Lucifer. So I see Alonso possibly retiring next year.

Now, lets go polish that crystal ball, the vision is still hazy.


Button is Whitmarsh's guy.. :).. He will see out his career with Mclaren.don't worry about that.


Why not Alonso and Räikkönen at Ferrari ?

It makes sense.

Ferrari will be less dependable of Alonso and this could very well be the thing di Motezemolo is after..... With Hamilton and Vettel fixed at MB and RB, if Räikkönen would sign a contract somewhere else, who could play the nr.1 driver if Ferrari and Alonso would split.

Furthermore, Räikkönen has proven to be fast and consistent, something which will show to be useful next year with a completely different F1 championship.


Excellent drives by throughout the grid, but hats off to Perez, who seems to have triumphed over the laws of physics by securing both 12th and 17th place!


Lol! Quantum Perez lives in a parallel universe and drives in warp time.


That depends in the Branche of physics you look at...


+1 Perez drove into a worm hole and reappeared at the back!

The McLaren Technology Centre's command station has given up on conventional F1 technology. It's beginning to experiment with its top secret space time technology. McLaren cars of 2049 will cross the finish line BEFORE the race begins.

That'll show the drinks company who is king of tech!


Umm... wouldn't it be better to travel forwards towards the front?

There are better points to be scored there.


Indeed - spooky interaction at a distance...


Vettel isn't the WDC; Adrian Newey is ...


did Alonso and Webber win when they were driving a Minardi? DId anyone win with a Torro Rosso since Vettel left the team? how many wins for Webber driving the best car vs. Vettel? how many pole positions for Webber with that best car vs. Vettel? seriously..


Yeah shame Kimi couldn't win the title when he was driving Newey cars eh... Vettel would be the world champ at Ferrari or McLaren in the next few years, you watch. Don't tell me you're another bitter Hamilton fan?


Not agreeing with the OP at all, Vettel's skill was of course a big part in his DWC wins. But it's equally silly to say Newey didn't have a big part in it either.

Re: your comment on Kimi at McLaren, b/c Newey designed the unreliable Mercedes engine of the time, right?

Newey could design the best chassis in the field next year, but if the Renault ERS keeps failing on their cars, there's little he could do about it, is there? Same deal. No ERS next year will be like telling a 100m sprinter to hop to the end from 50m on.

I'm a Hamilton fan ... perhaps I'm bitter, definitely frustrated. It's not much fun watching an uneven battle, is it? It's better being on the nicer end of that mismatch, but even then it's not as satisfying as when one wins against the odds.

Of course, if next year Hamilton's in the supercar, I won't be complaining! Well, maybe after 4 years of it, it might get old. But any RBR/Vettel fans couldn't really complain then either, could they? Seeing as they'd just benefitted from 4 straight seasons of having the best car throughout a season.


He was only able to negate the rookie mistakes (in his 4th season, mind) and mech. failures b/c his car was that much better than all the rest in 2010. Whenever the car finished AND he drove competently, he always finished in the top 4. Having that luxury makes it SO much easier to drive the car to its natural finish.

In 2009 he wasn't able to overcome the rookie mistakes, b/c there was a better car with a more consistent driver (that year) in the first half of the season.


Actually Seb had plenty of failures, rookie mistakes and bad luck in 2010 but in the end he negated those downfalls and still won, now that's the hallmarks of a true champion, Raikkonen is good but out him in the Redbull Alonso would still beat him to the title, Newey is important but without Vettel Redbull would struggle to win the title if Seb was driving for either Ferrari or Mclaren.


And Fry is the runner up!




Well, AN is not a driver...

Maybe you mean is TDWC (as in Technical Director...)


Actually, Adrian Newey is/was a driver - he raced at Le Mans almost a decade ago.


Then why hasn't webber secured 2nd in the championship in ANY years where Vettel became champ? Vettel makes the difference to a good car.


Keep telling yourself that


I seriously doubt Newey can even fit in the Red Bull car, let alone drive it as well as Vettel.

Vettel is in the seat driving the car, not Newey on the pit wall with a remote control.

An almnost perfect car still needs a good driver to cross the finish line to win the race.

Your sour grapes should mature in a few more years.

Time to bottle it.


The puncture probably cost Hamilton a couple more spots, I believe, as his pace was pretty good.

The most impressive driver through qualifying and the race was Hulkenberg. Big kudos to him.

Vettel has a 2 race advantage is his pocket, with the run of 4 races he won last year coming up, and Vettel in better form than then. He may even get into double figures for wins this year, like 2011.


You might actually be right...


Only Vettel and Hulkenberg can go to bed tonight knowing they have got the absolute optimum result out of the equipment over the weekend. Most other drivers could have done better, particuarly DiResta, Raikkonen and Hamilton.

If nothing else, such weekends highlight the superiority of Vettel and Alonso as the most consistent front runners over a 20 race season as the off weekends even for Kimi and Lewis keep piling up now.

I am not a Fernando fan, but if Kimi goes to Ferrari its obvious Fernando should remain the # 1 driver as long as he can keep his cool. But keeping his cool is probable his bigest weakness so lets wait and see what happens in the next days with the driver contracts at Ferrari. DiResta and Hamilton appear to be vulnerable to enter a familar downward spiral now the second part of the season is underway.

If he wants to win the title next year with Mercedes he cant allow himself such a weekend again after the summer holidays i am afraid.


Off weekends for Lewis? Really he's only had two 'off' weekends all year, which would be in Spain and then today. In Spain there was little he could do, it was a horrible day for Mercedes all 'round. But this weekend he made a mistake in Q2, and he paid bigtime for it. Of course, during the race he was compromised by a slow puncture, necessitating an early stop, screwing up his race. Without the puncture, he likely would've finished 7th. Without the mistake in Q2, he would've finished 5th, at best 4th (a 4th instead of 5th would've been a big ask, and would be solely down to the ability gap between Lewis and Massa).


Today, Vettel officially became the Usain Bolt of F1.

Yes, for just like Bolt, Vettel didn't get out of the blocks too well but once he was up to speed, he was able to deploy those long strides of his till about half way point when he was left with no option but to coast to the finish line.

Now, despite Vettel's dominant victory, I thought the race was fun for we had close battles all the way from P2 to the midfield and this race reminded me why DRS and KERS were introduced to the sport in the first place.

Thanks to DRS and KERS we saw cars going side by side and even though from the outside it may look easy, on the inside, the drivers are really working hard as they have to think of their feet.

I saw a lot of strong drives out there today from people I didn't expect such as Webber, Massa, Hulkenburg and Ricciardo so well done to them.

As for Ricciardo ~ unlike Perez last year ~ he's showing good signs after his promotion to the big time.

Shame about Lewis' puncture but as usual, he put on a good show for the fans and raced the wheels off his car.

Last but not least, a million thanks to all drivers for the respect shown e.g. Perez and Grosjean.

If the drivers continue this high level of performance we may have a situation were the safety car goes out of business.

Alexander Supertramp

Usain Bolt is very much and without any debate the greatest legend in sprinting history, I reckon Seb's got a long way to drive to achieve that level.


They should simply give Vettel the title right after the first race and have a championship for the 2nd place for rest of the season. Vettel+RBR+Newey - it'll take another Mosley to break that combination. The way they disrupted the "Ferrari Horsemen" domination in the 2000s was through tyre regulations. I think it'll take something similar to stop the Vettel steamroller.


"They should simply give Vettel the title right after the first race and have a championship for the 2nd place for rest of the season."

Exactly what I thought.

And you forgot to mention that this season was manipulated (by Pirelli and FIA) to favor the strongest team. As you can see, they are not moaning anymore.


Please do tell which team was leading PRIOR to this so-called 'manipulation'. I think you will find it was still Red Bull.