F1 Winter Break
Red Bull and Vettel’s rivals admit title is slipping away
Scuderia Ferrari
Posted By: James Allen  |  23 Sep 2013   |  1:51 pm GMT  |  261 comments

Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso and Mercedes’ motorsport director Toto Wolff have admitted that this year’s world championship is Sebastian Vettel’s to lose after another dominant drive from the Red Bull driver in the Singapore Grand Prix.

It was Vettel’s third successive win, seventh of the year and 33rd of his career and extended his championship lead over nearest rival Alonso to 60 points with six races – and 150 points – remaining.

The German has always performed well in the Asian flyaways, winning in Korea, Japan and India – which are the next three races – last season. If he continues this form, he could wrap up the title as early as in India, with three races still to go.

Alonso said: “We have to be realistic. With a few races to go, the gap is still increasing every weekend and now it’s 60 points. We need to be honest with ourselves and know we need a lot of luck, not just in the next race in Korea, but in Japan, in India, in Abu Dhabi…

Ferrari’s Alonso said: “We need to be lucky for the last six races if we want to win the championship because we are one second off the pace. On the other hand, we are a very uncomfortable opponent. If we get that luck, we will be there.”

Alonso pointed to Vettel’s Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber’s retirement on the final lap of the Singapore Grand Prix as evidence that anything can happen – and if it does, he and his Ferrari team have to be there to capitalise.

“If this happens to Sebastian one weekend we have to be there, in second place,” said the Spaniard. “If we cannot win the race we need to be right behind and try to take any opportunity, but being realistic, we know we need to be very, very lucky.”

But the Spaniard, who won last of his two world championships in 2006, admitted that Red Bull and Vettel are just doing a better job than anyone else.

“We are trying our maximum, trying to improve the car for every race – and we are doing it – but obviously not enough compared to our opponents,” said Alonso. “They [Red Bull] are doing a better job than us, they are fantastic every weekend. They are winning and they deserve those wins.”

Mercedes’ form has tailed off since Lewis Hamilton won the Hungarian Grand Prix, with Hamilton taking just 27 points from the last three races – compared to Vettel’s 75 – which leaves the 2008 world champion 96 adrift of the 26-year-old German in the standings.

When asked if feared Red Bull and Vettel could win all of the final six races, Wolff replied “Yes”, adding: “In Singapore, the kind of performance he showed by going two seconds per lap faster was absolutely stunning, and if they don’t have any DNFs…I don’t know if he will have a clean sweep, but if anybody deserves the world championship, then it’s him.”

But Wolff remained upbeat about the future following a much-improved season for Mercedes after three largely uncompetitive years.

“That dominance is something we are aiming to achieve over the next few years,” he said. “We are looking forward so there is no reason to be depressed because the step we have made in the last 12 months is something we should be proud of.

“If you look at the race, immediately afterwards we were disappointed to finish third and fourth, but then you return to your hotel and say ‘Well, that was fine’. Obviously, we are all here to win the world championship one day, and it’s good we have raised the bar. Equally it’s dangerous to do so because the level of satisfaction is much more difficult to achieve.”

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@Fiobserver- because Red Bull Racing is the lead team- use your brain - even if you clearly don't use your name.


So why aren't STR on Podium? Drivers?


Thats it!!!


Perhaps. Maybe he will win two in a row? Anyway, good analogy.


That I fear depends on what Newey does.


Go watch MotoGP then.


I complete agree with you about moto gp. Specially from now to the end of this other silly season... But very energetic!!!

of couse this is bad for F1, this domination


Moreover they have 4 sets of data from 2 very different designs and 4 drivers not 2 like everyone else. This level of data and analysis is what's causing the domination along with the huge budget to keep top people !.. Until every team is separate and on the same strict budgets- it's not a level playing field is it- it's not even close!


I'll do the next time I heard it if possible, most of his interviews I have listened/watched them in Fox Sports in spanish, there are no much of them available and are hard to find.


Sorry but Alonso has explicitly said that, not only now but always, even in 2005 he was hopping others to fail, I have heard him saying this in English and Spanish. To be fair maybe not in this interview but in the last couple of races he has said that.


It's not mine. It's Joe Walsh - Analog Man. Great tune!



Yes, that 2008 finish is the only time I ever jumped on the sofa during an F1 race. Lucky it was an afternoon race not some 2am gig.

But back to Lewis. He really is not thinking the way he should. The way his heros thought. I am starting to think he's gone soft. And again, 2010 and 2012 were close fought WDCs, so it's not all Vettel domination, unicorns and pixies. We're seeing some great stuff last 4 years.


You left an opening for one of my stand by lines.

....So he wants to win the WDC the way he won his first and only, battling a slowing Toyota for 5th? 🙂

I just don't see how that is a positive proper healthy way we want our F1 heros to think. It should be do everything to be best and beat the competition, and yes...dominate, if you can!

As a side note, Vettel is hardly dominating every year as we well know. He works on a pattern; close, dominate, close, dominate, close..etc.etc. 🙂


Schumacher beat Senna in the first two races because... he was using and illegal traction control in the car from 93, why did you think that Schumacher was ahead of Senna in one of his favorites races in interlagos, it was a miracle? Senna already suspected this before e died in the third race in Imola, the benetton wheels rarely spinned out of curves, even a driver like Damon Hill was going to beat Schumacher in that year (94) if Schumacher didn't ran into him in the final race. 🙂

Like i was saying before making comments you have to know all the facts.

I regard Schumacher very high but he also cheated plenty... like is bennetton's master Flavio Briatore... like they did in the first races of 94 with the illegal traction control... this is a fact...


I respect your opinion, as i too hold Senna in high regards, but, I don't believe that Schumacher benifited from senna's death as much as your claiming, for a start he won the first two races in 1994, beating Senna in both. Senna was an engaging and expresive personality, who to be far and large was mentaliy strong.. He had the strenghts to defeat others, be it mentaliy or in his race skills. Schumacher came from an era when he had to establish himself from the likes of Senna. He did that by closing himself to the outside world, thereby concentrating on his driving and profession. In which he excelled.. Yes when looking back to judge who was greatest, many categories and areas are assessed.

As I have posted before, his dedication, commitment and loyalty was and is the benchmark... He applied himself to that one task of bring a team from the gutter to the dominant position it held for almost a decade.. Putting everything on hold, his family most of all.

For this is his legacy..

Valentino from montreal

Sorry , there's at least 17 drivers who won races out of the 2002 driver line-up ... Not bad ...

Valentino from montreal

To Pedro , try comparing the F1 grid of 2002 to the one of today ...

2002 driver line-up :





Ralf S.












De La Rosa







... There's at least 11 drivers on this list that have won Grand Prix 's ... Go back 1 year earlier and you have also Mika Hakkinen on the grid !! Jesus- Murphy how can people claim today's grid is more competetive than years past ?? Mark Webber has said that the " quality " of drivers has gone WAY DOWN ...Golden era my rear !

Schumacher was already beating Senna before his fatal crash so 94 and 95 you cannot say Senna would of won ..


You didn't see the races, i rest my case. 🙂 Schumacher benefited from Sennna dead, because otherwise he wouldn't win the championships in 94 and 95 at least. In Monaco 84 (is first year in F1, Senna was driving a Toleman (one of the worst cars in the grid with less 100bhp than Prost) and was going to win the Grand Prix. In 85, 86 and 87 even in a Lotus Senna was almost in contention to win the title, because he didn't stop so many times to change tyres as is rivals in better cars. In pure handling and raw talent i think Senna was the best. You can see how he managed poles in Monaco even with an inferior car multiple times. But i agree that Schumacher was also a special driver although he didn't have so many competitors in the years he was in F1. Senna drove with Prost, Mansell, Piquet. And even Vettel said that Schumacher didn't have so many good adversaries in those days like he has nowdays.


Vettel won in a Toro Rosso in the rain. He got a mighty 4th ahead of Hamilton in the championship deciding race of 2008.

As someone stated above, Senna won all his titles in a superior McLaren, Jim Clark in a Chapman Lotus.

Schumacher is the anomaly. Not only winning titles for multiple teams but winning multiple titles in each of those teams. And unlike the Senna and Prost's of the world, he sacrificed championships in his prime to return a basket case team to greatness.


Lewis is just not that smart and likes to talk. Not a good combination. He'll be great statement dispenser once he quits racing.


Interesting diagnosis Scuderia McLaren! 🙂


To be fair I never heard something being said like that. If you could please let us have some of his statement of this kind. But please not in the written form as media often tend to pull things out of conetxt. Ruther to hear him saying that into the camera and mic. Thanks and ejoy


The other driver made less mistakes even at 24 & beat Michael Schumacher who was in a superior car. Unreliable cars ruined his chances at 2 certain titles. Some of his fastest lap records still stand. He once set 6 fastest laps in succession in a race.. Which stood since the 50"s.


Have to admit, the 2008 finale was the craziest there's been in F1 in a long while! So yeah, more of those please!

I love how it gave the crazies the whole "Glock gave it to him" angle, even though Trulli doing the exact same lap times is right there for anyone to see. Wilful, almost strident, ignorance is quite amusing to see. A particularly human failing (well, some more than others).


There was an interesting article James posted somewhere in Italian where they suggest Red Bull have found a new way to blow the diffuser and its has made significant gains since the summer break( this part is very obvious).

This is Michael Schumacher all over again..Some time down the track we might find what the silver bullet/s Red Bull and Newey have on that car..In the meantime everyone can keep kissing Sebs back side.Hes a good driver but hes not that good.

Seriously Red Bull effectively have 4 cars on the grid -Toro Rosso have a competitors Ferrari engine in it no less and a different design direction to compare data..They also have 3 times the budget as most teams (No wonder Bernie loves em) and people all sit here say how wonderful a driver is or isnt---Perspective please..Lotus deserve 3 times the accolades of Red Bull and Kimi.-He made Seb look like an amateur at Hungary that was funny..I couldnt stop laughing at the podium when Seb was bright red and apologetic..


I was thinking that also Sikhumbuzo!!

2 seconds per lap in this day an age is an eternity there has to be more to the red bull cars -SORRY I MEAN VETTELS CAR! Surely by now even Sebastian is wondering what on earth is going on.

I know Mark Webbers lost some motivation this season but theres no way Marks 2 seconds slower in supposedly equal machinery.

Adrian Newey I think has found a loophole in the regulations that other teams just havent seen or found on the Red Bull that in my opinion is the only explanation I can find. Im not a Vettel hater far from it I enjoy watching his superb talent on a Sunday but 2 seconds faster even in clean air - he aint that good.


Well either all other drivers forgot how to drive or you have an extraterrestrial who is driving the RBR. I still do not buy that any driver could contribute more then 1/2 sec. to a donkey cart lap times.


Thanks for the comprehensive reply Martin. Our opinions might differ, but we're at base both playing in the same sandbox named 'Reality'.


SkyTV bits replayed on HD.

1. Ross Brawn post qualifying in Germany to David and Martin: "we took a guess at the set up - went for something that we thougt would be good in qualifying but not so sure about the race.

2. Hamilton in Hungary after taking pole after everyone expected Vettel to be on pole after P3.

There are other pointers if you look for them (suppositions rather than direct facts).

The Mercedes drivers do seem to want different things, so while they share data, which will help evaluate new parts, setting up the FRIC suspension to their tastes on weight transfer could be quite different. Quite often this year one of Rosberg and Hamilton has been happier than the other.

Frank Dernie made a comment to the effect that he's yet to meet an F1 driver who'd immediately be a good race engineer. Clearly articulating what characteristic you want to change as a driver is the main thing a driver can do. Understanding relative performance benefits and being clear on priorities is about all a driver can do in terms of development - things that both Barichello and Vettel have occasionally been praised for.

As for Button and Alonso, I don't know, but Alonso was pretty experienced in 2007 and by 2010 Hamilton had time to learn a lot too. Button had a particular problem with some rear suspension device last year that led him up the garden path. Mark Hughes wrote about it in veiled terms. Button's main problem to me is a narrow window of driving talent.

I'm not trying to bash Hamilton. If I was team manager - and I don't have access to the data they do - I would take Vettel first. In the car they are close in my view. The way Hamilton races combined with cars he's been fortunate to race make him exciting to watch.

Your claim that Hamilton knows how to set up a car could be tested further. He has only driven for two teams, both of whom are very strong in terms on engineering. Hamilton is comfortable with a car that is relatively unstable while braking. He is happy cancelling turn in understeer. Inherent oversteer in qualifying might not be a speciality if GP2 qualifying is indicative (other factors unknown). The teams have all the data to know what a car is doing. If the driver is happy with any general characteristic then the team just has to make the car faster rather than more comfortable for the driver. How do we know that any driver these days is good at setting up a car? The reality is that we don't. If a driver is consistently saying he (or she) is not confident in/comfortable with the car then there is either a driver feedback problem (Button's problem in 2012 apparently) or a major design flaw. In the absence of those we are left with no way of knowing unless there is honest commentary from the teams. Rosberg's intelligence may have no performance benefit. What we do get is vibes from journalists. We can hope they are unbiased.


SteveS, it's more relevant to say that the Red Bull's were not front-running cars until the new regulations came into play.

Or are you really saying that if Vettel joined RBR in 2008, instead of 2009, that RBR would be finishing in the top two of the WCC in 2008? That would be quite the claim, but would seem to be what you're suggesting.


I had not realized, "Tomas", that pointing out historical facts constituted a "love affair". The claim that cars designed by Newey are automatically "dominant" is just false. That's cold hard reality.


Seriously, what is your love affair with Seb Vettel? Every single article you come on here and put down anyone who has a different opinion to yours. Yes he's good but the fact is, his Red Bull is far superior to all the other cars on track, as mentioned above, the Red Bull car is designed around Vettel with Webber as an after thought.


You really didn't try to sneak the Villeneuve-Frentzen 1-2 in there, did you? Frentzen was only 2nd b/c Schumi was DQ'd from the whole season (he finished a strong 2nd to Villeneuve, Frentzen was nowhere close).


"Most of Newey’s creations have favoured one driver over the other (Mansell>Patrese ..)"

You seem to have overlooked the fact that Patrese finished runner-up in 1992, beating out such drivers as Senna and Schumacher. And Villeneuve was runner-up to Hill in 1996, and Frentzen was runner-up to Villeneuve in 1997.


Now, now...this is not the time to lose hope & focus. 60 points is not that far away. All that is required is chip away 10 points every race. Together, we can do it!

I believe "gladiatore" Alonso will again show his magic. He started working on the psychological game long back, even before this season began.

By praising Hamilton and predicting that he will be his closest challenger in 2013, Alonso turned a former adversary (& his fans) into a friend. That would be important on track if Hamilton is ahead of Vettel.

By giving lift to Webber, Alonso further cemented his friendship (haven't seen any other Spanish & Australian with German surname hanging out together elsewhere!). Having a friend within RBR could psychologically destabilise the team.

And then fans like me would help Alonso by booing Vettel everytime we get a chance, which will unnerve him from trying to unleash the full potential of Newey's car again.

So I like Alonso's strategy: He is surrounding Vettel with friends, just like the US did to USSR during Cold War--missiles stationed in the East, in the West and in the Space (the last one was a gimmick, but the Soviets fell for it). And, as we all know, history repeats itself.

Go Alonso! Vettel is now vulnerable!! If you need us to increase our booing, let us know by tweeter.


The Ferrari domination of the early 2000s was due to having all the pieces in place, and having a car that had exploitable dimensions that favoured the differing driving styles of Schumacher and Barrichello.

The Red Bulls, not so much. Most of Newey's creations have favoured one driver over the other (Mansell>Patrese, Hakkinen>Coulthard, etc). Webber isn't likely to finish second to Vettel as the RBRs are highly aero dependent and struggle in dirty air. Mark also gives 15kg away to Sebastian, which would compromise the ultimate weight distribution. Not to mention Webber's starts, which constantly put him on the back foot.

I also thought the team's advice to Webber in Singapore was particularly poor: keep a 2-second gap to Alonso? How about helping him get past and into clear air, rather than falling away from the lead at the same rate as the Ferrari?


There are 300 people working in the design of the car which is used and set up by Vettel and his engineers


He is only 26, let's see how you see both drivers in ten years


Agree, even the Argentinian commentators say that Fangio drove in different teams because he always was looking for the best car. The point here is that great drivers will always end driving great cars.


Wow. Great comment.

Yes imagine the booing and internet haters/deniers if those legendary drivers were around today. "it the car, no driver is ten seconds a lap faster", "he won't prove himself till he wins with the slowest car on the track", "his consistent wining shows that he is not a great driver", "he is so arogant the way he wins al the time, just look at him" blah blah blah....


Ok Simon, I send my booo from here!

please, tell Alo in my name

Lets change the topic:


Who would bet on it?


You're joking, don't you?


Man, I have'nt laughed so much in a long while, dude, you are funny!!!!


Simon, really appreciate your motivation. Hope ALO & Team Ferrari can read this.

Dreaming that this should come true.


" shouldn’t happen ever"...

It should happen if the part in question is a danger to the drivers and other people at the race, and that is exactly what the case was with with respect to the initial 2013 tyre.


Changing such a crucial component in the mid season with probability that it would favor some teams shouldn't happen ever. Remember that cars were built around certain tire construction before the season started. If you look at the standings before tires were reverted there were other winners.


It's not slipping away..... It's a landslide! Thank god Mourinho is back in england... I can watch football.


Any post about Renault F1 power plant RB has full

support by Renault and Lotus,Caterham and Williams are not same for sure as engine mapping or so.Infinity by Nissan is main sponsor to RB and RB has Renault power plant for free meaning something not correct to other competitors with

same engine supplier?!Comparable Lotus!


I cannot wait for next season to get here. Im a new f1 fan and so far, is been extremely boring. Last year was great with 7 diff winners in the first 7 races.

Adrian Newey deserves all the credit. He has constructed and designed a winni.g car at every team hes been a part of. Vettel is just lucky enough to get the seat. I would argue that almost any driver on the grid cohld win in that car.

Then the "what about webber" arguement comes..... So? What about webber? Those cars are not identical, do.t care what you say.

I would like to see the same car, w the same specs, made by the same company and lets see who REALLY is the best driver. Gurantee you, it would not be Vettel.


Unless their rivals come up with more downforce it will be a rather predictable next 6 races, and everyone will be sweating on 2014.

On that note it has to be said if Red Bull and Newey can find things to make the cars so damn quick even after 7 years in these rules..I'm sure they are going to find something in next years rules.

Given the traction that RB9 has and the braking, I somehow dont think they will struggle on the mechanical side against their competitors.The only area is outright power , but as we've seen these last few years--this can be negated by other means. Lets just hope some of the others come up with some great innovations.


Finally winning combination RBPirelli just car and tyres as we know after canada all changed and RB push to Pirelli to change tyre compound result is what we have and compromised completely 2013.

Pirelli needs to be punished and next year to be new tyre supplier for 2014!

MotoGp is better to watch more thrill than F1.


Alonso only ended Schumi's reign after he won 5 titles in a row (2000-2004)

Simply put, after Vettel wins this year and next (2010-2014) will Alonso win a title again.


Why is it that so many people are sooo absolutely certain that Vettel is a rubbish driver and would do no good outside of a Newey car? Is there some data of facts that I haven't seen to support this claim? Please don't present any other category data for evidence either. It is irrelevant to F1 today. Some even go so far as to use the Top Gear test track/car time as solid evidence :)From where I sit, he works to a simple formula. Qualify on pole, nail the start, go like the clappers and drive out the race in clean air away from traffic, fighting and DRS. Dead simple tactic really. What makes him special is that he does this week in, week out are rarely falters. Yes he has a great car and team behind him but he still needs to make it all happen on paydays. A lot like Schumi during his reign at the top. The guy is disciplined and focused like no other driver in the current field. He strives for perfection every time he sits in the car. The team strive for perfection every time they roll the cars out. Isn't that what F1 is about? Even when he doesn't start from pole the guy gives it his all. Take Abu Dhabi 2012 for example. Starts like 24th and finishes where? On the podium! The team, in their quest for perfection gave him a car capable of racing from pitlane. Seb did the rest. Yes there was some luck involved but luck seems to come to those who work the hardest.

Please, give me some valid data to show that Vettel is rubbish and could do no good without Newey.


What all the commentators above seem to forget-paraphrasing SV now "when everyone else are already hanging their nuts into the pool, we are still working on improving and working on the smallest details the results of which accumulate over a weekend and a season".

It's this dedication by the Redbull Engineers and drivers that gives them the edge over the competition and the results.


I wish the FIA did not change the tire's construction mid season. That really hurt Ferrari and Lotus and gave the Championship to Red Bull. I knew it was going to turn this way and so did Red Bull that is why they campaigned so hard for the changes.

The next 6 races are meaningless and this year is a big bore unless you are a Redbull/Vettel fan.


From Anderson:

" It [Vettel + RB car] reminds me of Jenson Button's title-winning year with Brawn in 2009. Button had been in F1 for nine years before he got that car and had won only one race.

Suddenly, he found himself in the perfect car for him and he was away - winning six of the first seven races and subsequently the title. "


I have made this comment already in other news, but I consider it fits better here:

Steven Pritchard and JAMES, I must say sorry about the strong words I used in my last message (in “Alonso spells it out; No Mclaren move”, 47). This is not the best way to get understanding, I admit. And this is not the way I usually behave.

But there is something I really like to make you two, think about, especially JAMES:

This website is the best chat of F1 I have ever seen. Very well organized and with the ultimate news coming from a long career and well reputed reporter and I value all that, a lot.

I’m from Spain and we don´t have nothing similar to this, so I consider it very helpful for people that really enjoy F1, as sport.

And that is the point, I considerer that James Allen, the reporter, assumes a big responsibility of being equal and objective; an everyday as bigger responsibility as it webpage increases and gets more international. I only ask for a more objective info and not so subjective one. And you (JA) could recognize, too, that the way Alonso and all news about him (or where he must be involved and isn´t) are a bit against his image and everyday effort. At least, it minimizes his importance in F1 and the goals he scores in every race.

In Autosport –the newspaper- it is something the same, but this –here- is different than Autosport, because this is an open channel of communication, not like there.

I promise I will not repeat such a comment or leave the page; such a thing I would not like to.

But JA on F1 could do that effort. I give you an example, just to finalize this, in the news about this Sunday´s race the focus of Alonso’s race was in the strategy and don´t say a word about his race start, one of the best ones this year and I think aggressive –in the right way (courageous, brave)-, risky, which is good for the sport and spectacle.

In one word, this webpage must (I good like) focus every news from national readers to “international” ones, and from supporting Ham or Vet or any other specific racer, make fans –to each ones- to discuss it, about news with equal objectivity or impartiality.


It's a crying shame that Pirelli couldn't find a fix for the delamination issues without such a radical change to the new tyres that handed the championship to Red Bull.

Massive alterations mid-season after primarily Red Bull whinging (and Mercedes whinging) taint the championship. Delaminations needed dealt with but the new tyres should not have benifited Red Bull so much while penalising Lotus, Ferrari, Force India etc mid-season.

Upgrades from the master developer Newey no doubt helped but it's the tyres that are giving the monster 1s - 2s a lap advantage.

Barring mechanical issues, Vettel will easily win every race till he takes the championship, then if he keeps pushing as hard will win every race after this till the season ends.

What's left after pole, fastest lap, race win? Lap the entire field?

Monumental effort by Red Bull but still tainted due to such penalising changes half way through the championship.

Changes that I'm surprised that aren't being talked about more.


James, is it true that Kimi won't be racing in Korea? Back problem persists after Singapore?




2 seconds per lap? I disagree. Toto knows something we all don't.

Something else is goin on here. Why was there heat coating and I would like to know what caused the scrapping on the tyre wall James.

Please guys I think there is more to Sebs car.



Have you guys seen this? What happened to Lewis' competitive spirit and desire to win? What's with this defeatist attitude?



James - Off Topic

Vettel is undoubtedly one (that's the key word) of the current best F1 drivers along with Hamilton and Alonso though what is in no doubt whatsoever (not even a madman could argue otherwise) is the Newey designed Redbull is the supreme F1 car of today and if anyone ever deserved recognition it's Adrian Newey, James I'd like to start the call for him to become a 'Sir', is there anyone more deserving?


Why arent anyone mentioning when RB withdraw from RRA. From what i understood the rest of the teams still practise that agreement. What if RB can spend or are spending £50-100m more than the rest of the field? I dont say they are, but they might as well be doing that.

I dont like the way F1 are heading again.

I belive it was the same when Ferrari dominated with Shumacher.(Ferrari spend £100m more than Mclaren back then)

I cant really understand the people saying they dont mind anyone dominating the sport. Its not an sport anylonger then is it, where is the exitement?

And i would like an more balanced view about the drivers from both the media and people. There are to many talented drives in the field at the moment, and i dont think the drivingabilities for best ones can be seconds quicker than the next. The machinery plays an big part of success here.


While everyone's comments seem to focus on Newey, vettel, how other doing a bad job etc. what seems to be forgotten is that RedBull have spend far more money in the last 5 years than an other top team and in fact have broken agreed rules on spending caps overand over.

Formula 1 has always been won by those who spend the most (ok bar one or two years when genius design like brawn won) and it will always be that way. My money is firmly on Mercedes as you can clearly see they are determined to outspend anyone and have more financial muscle than anyone. As a Ferrari fan I look forward to the intra team battle but I have little if no hope of a WDC next year, again....


Season over, I hope I am wrong. It would take some stellar intervention for Seb and RBR not to finish reminder of the races in the points. Even if he scores no points in 3 races still doesn't mean he wouldn't win the championship. Alonso at best could finish on podium but I doubt on the top spot under current circumstances. It is clear that Ferrari is focusing on 2014 and they are not developing that F138 at desirable rate. Without qually pace Alonso stand no chance of Challenging Seb at all.


Your opinions please...

Do you think the defining moment of the season was the decision to change the Pirelli tyre specs? Surely the championship looked much more open back then...

OR would RBR have come to grips with the tyres anyway and thus would have been able to exploit their car's advantage anyway?


Twice, Alonso has been screwed by mid-season rule changes.

First, the mass-dampner, then the tyres.

Add to that, Ron going against his word and

Ferrari's poor race strategy, and we may have

had a six-time champion in our midsts.


This championship isn't over yet. In 2000 Schumacher had a run of 4 non finishes, right in the middle of the season. If memory servers me correct.


Andrian Newey is not the only reason redbull are dominant. Indeed, he is an intelligent guy but there are others within the aero team that redbull have that solidify the team


He understood it after Pirelli switched to 2012 tyres.


we may as well join alonso and co in admitting defeat. only another 6 races to go guys then its all reset to zero. it cant come quicker for me



oh look, the excuses have started already!


I think people ought to look at the big picture. Over the course of less than a handful of years we are seeing a pretty special run of success, for both team and driver. It won't last forever, these things never do. I admire the feat, even as a Ferrari fan, and know that somewhere down the road I will remember this period of dominance just like I have for Schumacher, Prost, Senna etc. I still cheer for Alonso, but I certainly don't boo someone else.


Vettel winning the Championship is a question of when, not if anymore.

I predict India.


"“If you look at the race, immediately afterwards we were disappointed to finish third and fourth," -- it should be fourth and fifth. Unless Wolff was counting only the best of the rest (no Vettel) as Vettel was in a different league.


What Seb did yesterday, reminded me of Schumi in France 04 and hungary 98 (i think it was 98) and Kimi in monaco 05 where they had to open up enough time for a pit stop. Qualy lap after qualy lap. It was stunning.


personally i think its pathetic alonso hoping for redbull reliability, when did we ever hear schumacher speak like that in 96 97 98 99?! he had patience which alonso has shown he has very little of!


I wonder how much changes at the front end we will have next year.

It could be that a team not in the cards now, comes up with a must have innovation that all others miss on ( a la Brawn).

It could be that it will be decided by the teams with the better engine. All Renault power teams ahead of all others per say.

It could be that 3, 4 or 5 teams are near equal overall, with each having an edge in this or that area.

It could be that it is so close performance wise between a few teams that, the actual differences come from the drivers. That would be the best.

I think that most likely, there won't be that much of a shuffle. I still see Ferrari & Red bull the most likely to fight for the titles by year end, with Mercedes coming 3rd and Lotus losing out to McLaren. Marc


I think commentators will try to do all they can to keep fans interested in the remainder of the season, but in all reality, this season is over already. Barring some major catastrophe by Red Bull, Vettel and RBR will win both titles. Vettel doesn't need to win, or even necessarily podium, he just needs to avoid DNFs and get points. Of course, he'll probably continue to dominate, which will put even more of a seal on it.

The remaining teams will pay lip service to trying to fight, etc., but they know it's not realistic. They basically have almost no chance now. Even if one team nails it right, they'd still have to keep Vettel off the podium to have any chance of overtaking him in points. It's just not very likely.

And, it's not worth wasting development time on this year's car any more. Move resources on to next year's car and hope RBR hasn't been able to devote as much time to the 2014 car as they've worked to stay on top this year.


Slipping away?! This year's title is gone. See ya! Just say it. Oh wait, they can't say it otherwise people won't tune-in to watch Vettel go 'round in circles with his finger in the air.

The more people talk the more I fear 2014 will be a complete repeat of 2013/12/11, with RB winning both championships 2-4 races before the end, and everyone else switching to 2015 after a few comments on how they didn't anticipate Newey to come out with gadget X...

Same old, same old...


We eagerly await developments re. the admission by (see heading) Red Bull that "title is slipping away".


Vettel is the GOAT

Schumacher, Fangio, Senna, Clark, Prost all bow to the greatest racer of all history.


I think all of F1 - fans, teams and sponsors alike - fear a continuation of the Red Bull dominance next year. I can't imagine putting aside afternoons and getting up early on weekends if it;s going to continue to be like this... and I would consider myself a medium-core fan.


I’m a relatively new fan of F1. But from my short time I’ve observed that to win in F1 you need three things 1) Driver; 2) Car/Technical Expertise; 3) Strategy. These are the three legs of the F1 stool. You can’t win with only 1 of the 3. You need at least 2 to win on any given weekend. If you have 3 you will dominate.

Applying this formula to Ferrari the season is slipping away from them as a result of their driver and their strategy. Is the car as strong as red bull? At this point in the season probably not, but it’s no slouch either. It is definitely the next best car on the grid. Arguably the Ferrari was stronger at the outset of the year, but they failed to capitalize. Also as ALO famously said you don’t need the fastest car to win championships. The driver and team strategy has disappointed. ALOs qualifying woes stand out along with several dubious strategy calls and driving errors made by ALO over the course of the season. VET is running away with it and it not because he has a dominant car or even because is a dominant driver. The other teams have not mounted a proper challenge. Rather than boo VET boo the team you support. There is no reason this WDC shouldn’t be separated by a handful of points at this stage of the season other than pure incompetence of Red bull challengers.

I personally hope the other teams get on with it and step up their game. I’m a fan of VET – I think he is head and shoulders above the field, but it would be nice to see someone pull all three pieces of the puzzle together and give him a proper challenge. I think he is up to it and will still emerge on top. I suspect that he is so good he makes it all just look easy.


James, can we please start a petition here to Magnetti Marelli:

"Don't quality check the next batch before delivery to RBR"

Seb will still be champ again, but not the next race please, not yet.


No excuses next year (actually no excuses this year imo with the enormous amount of resources devoted to Alonso). Rory Byrne, everyone starts from scratch. Newey is no excuse since everyone points to Rory Byrne when you bring up the fact Newey won zero championships in the 2000's.

Oh how far have Ferrari fallen. You'd almost think they have a budget the size of Lotus the way Alonso and co talk.


What is the news? We all knew this would happen if RBR don't run into reliability issues.

At the moment they aren't running into any serious reliability issues as such so I think its all over,bring on 2014 and just hope we have level playing field.


Fernando had a chance to sign Red Bull after McLaren weird season. He decided to sign Renault for two years and wait for Ferrari. That would be a gamble if he signed Red Bull than! It might be Briatore who poisoned wrong sign off:)

So what? Plenty of lost opportunities, but still good chances in 2014. It will be The Season everybody remembers... or crappy remake of Brown GP in another league because some team invented smth really outstanding. I wonder it will be Merc or RB. So, all hopes for rains for each Sunday!


“That dominance is something we are

aiming to achieve over the next few years,”


Am afraid, if Mercedes do not win the titles in 2014, they may be looking to at least two barren years before they can get a sniff of some major Silver-ware.

Looking at some stats, 2015 seems like a lost cause for the team as it appears we get totally new winners every 5 years since the sport's inception as shown below;













>>> 2015 >>>

(Red Bull???)


But I thought Ferrari would give up on the championship fight if Vettel finished ahead at Monza and Singapore.

Yes, it's really an amazing job that Vettel's doing as shown by the fact that Alonso hasn't finished ahead since Barcelona (with the exception of the DNF at Silverstone).

And yup, Vettel tends to be stronger in the Asian races due to the significant upgrades brought by the team around Belgium and as fate would have it always seem to work e.g. 2010, when the team got rid of the mechanical car failures from around Japan and we begun to see lights to flag victories.

Likewise, Mercedes can be proud of the job they done so far by turning the team into a top running outfit almost overnight.

And no, I don't think the team has necessarily fallen off the map since Hungary but rather Lewis has had a dip in form since then.

True, the wrong setup caught the team out at Spa but at Monza and Singapore, Lewis didn't qualify well but the evidence during the race indicates the car still has pace.

So yes looking forward to Mercedes emerging as the new dominant force in the sport however, I would rather see closely fought out battles.

Anyway, congratulations once again to V4ttel on successfully defending his world titles, now I understand what those tears were all about on the 2010 Abu-Dhabi podium.


This has nothing to do with the post but a question has come to my mind.

If the problems of Alonso and Ferrari made that they went to recruit the best avaliable pilot to have another reference, this means they would go for Hamilton if he saved his move for this year?

F1 is a lot of being in the right place on the right moment, coud it be possible?

Or there is another reason why they recruited Kimi?


I know a lot of fans complain when Vettel/Red Bull (Or other Team/Driver) dominates a race or indeed a season, However I personally have never seen anything wrong with anyone dominating as that is a part of what F1 is all about & I applaud it rather than sneer at it.

Right now the Red Bull is the best car because they have done the best job & Vettel is driving that car perfectly, He's not made mistakes, He's good at looking after its tyres, He good at pushing when he needs to & backing off when he's able to to save the car. He's mega in qualifying & just as good in the race.

With all that said the success that Red Bull & Vettel have achieved the past few years is fully deserved & they should be applauded for it.

If fans are unhappy with the 'dominance' then they should complain about the other teams's inability to do as good a job rather than complain about Red Bull for doing the best job & boo Vettel for driving brilliantly through a 2hr race.


It is a given by now that Vettel will take it. You know it is a done deal when people are hoping to beat him by a sudden streak of DNFs and forcing him to drive slower by sour grapes booing, lol.

Good to see that a majority of people are condemning the booing and making the boo-ers look silly.


Very good comments from Alonso. He makes himself and Ferrari look strong, whilst putting over the champions and the championship which in my opinion benefits everyone.

From here on out I can't see how it would make sense for Ferrari to divert any more resources to this year's car.


I have seen Seena race in Monaco, absolute genius, Shumacher brilliant.

But i am in aw of Vettel, that Singapore drive , street circuit with 30 second gap , after a SC is absolutely mindbogligly brilliant.

I think for his age 26 !!! He is too good, legend in the making.

Can you believe he has atleast 10 more years of F1 in him and he already has almost the 4th title.

That is just insane.

I am a huge fan of Shumey and Alonso ... I think Vettel is best driver today.

Valentino from montreal

Vettel cannot win the last 6 races because that would make him tie Schumacher's record of 13 wins in a single season ...

I'm all for Vettel but Schumacher's records need to stay intact forever ...

Tornillo Amarillo

Slipping away or Sleeping away?

Drivers have not to be very intelligent to realize it's impossible to catch up Vettel.


Well the bottom line is that Red Bull have a supremely efficient aero design producing the required downforce in a way whilst minimising drag. They are light years ahead of everyone else in that department, and what they have learnt so far will help them next year even though it's a big change. I have heard that the engines are more powerful than expected with figures around 800bhp quoted with a very high boost pressures from the turbo. I think it lightly that we will see rather less reliability from the engines with such high cylinder presssures which will add to the excitement. I think it lightly that Red Bull will still be ahead aerodynamically, but Mercedes may have a very powerful engine so we will have to see how it balances out. Mercedes and Ferrari really need an exceptional aerodynamicist to counter the work of Newey if they are to be properly competative in the long run.


The real depression will set in if Red Bull start next year, with the new regs, in dominant fashion. At the moment Alonso and co must be banking on the conclusion of this year ending the current established order.


Its not only about Seb & Newey...

Please, don´t foget the money involve:

If Toyota and Honda were expending great amounts of MONEY, NOTHING COMPARES TO RED BULL EXPENDITURES.

Toyota in 2004 had an annual budget of $ 397 millions:


Between Red Bull ($ 320 millions) and Toro Rosso ($ 110 millions) the annual budget in 2012 of Red Bull F1 Structure was more than $ 430 million per year:


Honda ($ 343 m, 2004) was expending a huge amount but less than Toyota ($ 397 m, 2004) as you can see in the first article.

Consider the years Red Bull has already been in F1 and the next at least othe 5 (which would be 13-15 years in total), and it is a ridicoluos expenditure compared to toyota (2002-2009: 7 years) or Honda (2006-2008: 3 years).

So, its not only about Seb & Newey...


Because Newey is the best aerodinamist engineer (proven from long time ago) and RBR is a car of the aerodinamic rules era.

Will see next year, when Newey would not be as strong determinant!!!


Ok, lets do it this way. I could accept his superiority within 1/2 sec.. The rest 1.5 sec. a lap it's a credit to the Newey car. Is this OK with you ?


"The whole world is living in a digital dream.

It’s not really there. It’s all on the screen.

Makes me forget who I am.

I’m an analog man".


Ha ha ha. Are you mad?

Thats ok!!


@ Oletros

Webber is not a top driver. Never was.

Top Drivers: ALO, LEW, VET, KIM


"Anyone of the top drivers would win consistently in that car. That is beyond doubt."

As it is proved by Webber


"Anyone of the top drivers would win consistently in that car"

Exactly my thoughts. Imagine Button (yes, BUTTON - no need for ALO, KIM, HAM)on that car. He would have the same points (if not more) as VET by now.


NExt year could be one off, like 2009 with Brown GP. Who better translates the rules.


McStder, you made me think of this.

The whole world is living in a digital dream.

It's not really there. It's all on the screen.

Makes me forget who I am.

I'm am analog man.

Perhaps Ferrari play it on the lunch room radio to motivate the F1 team.



no, he said he wanted just a car like (as fast as) the other's meaning he was not asking for a super car...

and he got... kimi

Only a miracle (or a 3er crown) would stop him from leaving Ferrari

McLaren Honda could be a super car

For me the question with Alo and Ferrari is that we are living the digital F1 era (with CFD, third virtual car during the race, supermaterials, aerodinamicist ...) and Ferrari is working in an analogical mode

And now we will go to a tecnological and fuel efective engines one and they start focusing in the aerodinamic area efford

bad time to be in Ferrari. V6 turbo charch is out of their business, that is the real thing


It was an amazing win, he was just 21 when he did it.

Though, what many people don't remember is that his teammate, Bourdais (who was fired a couple of weeks later) was just 0,1s and 0,3 slower in Q1 and Q2 respetively. Vettel was 0,9s faster in Q3 but he might have less fuel onboard (not sure as I don't remember).

Bourdais stalled his car onn the grid and had to start from the pits. The car worked really well that weekend.

It obviously doesn't take any credit off from Vettel


> Yes you are right if it wasn’t for the “H” factor within the team.

Conclusion, Vettel is a rubbish driver and Red Bull sabotages Mark Webber car.


Yes you are right if it wasn't for the "H" factor within the team. So called "equal treatment", my back side. That why they are booing them. Pls don't tell me that MW is sabotaging his own equipment.


Did you even bother to search out the story, instead of just slamming it sight unseen?

Gary gives huge credit to Vettel.

From reading it, it seems it would be totally up your alley ... lots of things to take out of context to fit to your particular viewpoint!!


I have loads of time for Gary Anderson, he tells it like it is. And the comparison to Button/Brawn is a good one. Anyone that thinks the RB car hasn't been the car to be in, since 2010, hasn't been watching.


It's not defeatist. Surely he's not saying he'd rather not win than win, so I'm sure he'd rather be dominating like Seb/RBR are instead of his current situation of fighting just to get on the podium each race. But he said he rather win the title in a season where there was a to-and-fro battle.

So ...

1. Win but not too easily

2. Win at a canter


Can't see what defeatist attitude your on about.

All Lewis is saying is that he would prefer to have a race with someone for the WDC rather than be a stats tart like Seb.:)


My take on it 😉 is that he doesn't wish to ever be as good a driver as Seb. He would much rather be just a smidgen better than the next guy rather than lightyears better. Fair enough, we all set our own personal goals, he sets his.

Alonso, on the other hand says that he prefers a car a few tenths down on the next guy and he will do the rest. Different people, different goals.


Sebee I don't see your point. I think he says he prefers to win fighting, not in a so dominant car, which looks rigth for me. but he says Vetel deserves all his wins and condems the boos.


I think the first paragraph especially is not representative of what Lewis really meant. He still wants to win every championship from now until he retires, but he doesn't want to finish every race 30 seconds ahead of the rest of the field having never been threatened, he wants to feel like he's really racing hard for it and not having an easy time.

At least, that's how I read it.


Lewis is bipolar. I like the guy but he says many things and often contradicts himself. Often in the same weekend race.

The latest is something like, "I don't care about any position other than first... Second is nothing to me" blah blah blah...

Then in the same weekend, "we are focusing on getting second."

Honestly, I think he either has a twin brother or needs to settle down a bit. Carry the company line... Leave it at that. Kimi knows this.


I see it as a competitive jealousy, nothing else.

LH is obviously among the top 4 drivers in the sport, any of whom would kill to be in Seb's position today. Last year, there were reports about LH lobbying Bernie to get the second red bull seat. But the owner's loyalty to Mark Webber put paid to the same and LH had to settle for Mercedes.


Simple, if you are driving for Silver Arrows and you are 2+ sec. of the pace what would you think ? Sour grapes.


Yeah I read it on Sky. I think Lewis means that although he wants to win as much as anyone he also enjoys chellenges and wheel to wheel fights.


"This year it has been a bit of the Mercedes race engineers taking educated guess to get the set up right after a poor Friday."

Said as though it was fact ... sources please. Sounds a bit made up, methinks.

I wouldn't say Hamilton's technical skills are near the top, but neither is he some fool just driving as fast as he can, and then saying "how was that?" to his team. He knows how to set up a car, and is better than Button in that respect. Part of the reason why he said he learned lots about set-up from Alonso, but next to nothing from Button.

As for Rosberg, he is likely the most technical driver on the grid. He scored the highest of any driver ever on Williams' engineering aptitude test, and was offered a place in the Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial College London in 2005 (he turned it down).

Seeing as the Mercedes' drivers are supposedly sharing all data/maps/set-up, any credit or blame for getting it right/wrong should be shared between them.


... And because ALO would never accept Hamilton in a team he drives for...Not the same with Kimi, who would make dead-time much more fun!!!!


Maybe that's where Vettel's "I might retire at 30" story comes in? Maybe at the same time as Newey goes?

Surely he's seen the damage Schumi did to his rep by coming back and not being in a front-running team.


The Red Bull's were not "dominant cars" until Vettel joined Red Bull and started driving them. And the Red Bull car driven by Webber has never looked in the slightest bit dominant. People saying its the car and not the driver are simply ignoring the facts.


Don'tcha know that Vettel designed the new diffuser whilst puttering away at home over the break? Yeah, just came to him one day. He then faxed over his drawing to the RBR engineers, by-passing that idiot Newey.

It's all Vettel's doing. 🙂


Martin I think you have misunderstood quite a lot of things. In any driver/car relationship it is about 80% car 20% driver. Design in a formula 1 car is almost everything. The Red Bull design team have concentrated on maximising downforce whilst minimising drag, but it is a balance, and they have produced a supremely agile and fast car. Speedtrap figures are of little consequence because what matters is how fast one can go around corners whilst not giving too much away along the straights. I suspect the Red Bull car being supremely aero efficient (as slippery as it can be for a given amount of downforce). Vettel is a great driver, but poor sportsman. He is fast, but any other top driver could do likewise given the car.


Remember Vettel isn't the quickest around the Top Gear track amongst F1 drivers, neither is he that exceptional in the annual ROC.


Oh come on, even the drivers admit it's 90% the car and 10% the driver. The driver get's paid big money for that extra 1 or 2 tenths. The 1 or 2 seconds we saw in Singapore was NOT Vettel, no driver in the world is capable of that level of superiortiy. There is probably half a second between the best and worst drivers on the grid.

Their top speed is the slowest because they carry so much more speed through the corners due to the aero that they are happy to make that trade off.

Anyone of the top drivers would win consistently in that car. That is beyond doubt.


Didn't Grosjean beat Vettel in the last ROC, head-to-head?


I suspect there is a significant difference in the tyres that Hamilton and Webber had over the earlier drivers. The car is 12 years old now and the origninal specification tyres would not be available, so new tyre types would be needed at different points over the years. Tyres have improved a lot with road cars.

ROC is a more level playing field, but being the best F1 driver does not make you the best driver in the world. None of the F1 drivers would win in NASCAR in the first couple of years of driving as the skills are different.

Pace over one lap and pace over a stint are different things in the current era as tyre management is so critical. Finding the speed without overheating the tyres is difficult.


Yeah, Newey's August/September surprise! Last year it was DDRS, this year the venturi-effect diffuser. The diffuser is particularly devastating ... increased downforce w/zero drag, letting them run less wing everywhere else.


Not sure it's all RB. Say what you like about Vettel (and who doesn't?) he's a VERY smart cookie, always looking to improve on perfection.


+1,000,000 ... that is the conundrum of the driver's championship, when it's not a spec series.

Too many drivers are bringing knives to a gunfight, or in the RB9's case, a tank battle!


2010 was the last year for Bridgestones.

All in the era of no refueling, however.


Yeah, unless other teams can get a hold of RBR's new diffuser, RBR will still be the top dog in terms of aero. Actually, with one exhaust next year exiting further back, the Belgium-spec diffuser shouldn't be possible. Keyword: shouldn't.

Newey's "September surprises" (August?) are almost becoming a tradition now.

RBR's development is the best on the grid (forget McLaren; theirs is only heightened b/c they're usually coming from far back).

It's only the Renault engine/ERS that could trip up RBR.


There cannot be certainty, but you can look at probabilities.

Red Bull appears to be very successful at bringing upgrades that work. Its design systems seem to work well, so provided it doesn't come down to the "big idea" such as the double diffuser, the team should do well.

With Mercedes, the obvious area area where it might have an edge is in battery technology, as it is believed to have had an edge with the 2009 and 2011 additions of KERS. I wouldn't assume too much about the engine being better or worse.


You cannot say greatest of all time..Because different cars, different aged drivers, different conditions. We couldnt even see the old days of racing !.

One thing I can tell you for certain even if he is definitely one of the very best- Seb will never be the best.There is a driver on todays grid who made/make less mistakes and was/is just as fast.


Obviously you’ve never watched the chariot race in Ben-Hur.

Vettel could never cut it against Charlton Heston.


With all due respect.. Vettel should be acknowledged for the way he has driven for the last few years... If Redbull was such a dominant car why isn't webber finishing infront or behind vettel in every race, putting aside his reliability woes... Boy has got skill... End of!!!

Been watching F1 for many years... But. I have not seen to date from the times of Senna and before, any driver in the history of the sport who put in as much dedication, commitment, loyalty into a team as Schumacher did. The bloke was a machine. Nothing compares to what he did! Yes many would argue about his arrogance or secretive lifestyle but that's what made him incredible. They gave him the old mans office to stay at when he was Maranello! He would of driven through the nights had there been enough lighting and useful data available in doing so..

It is this that defined Schumacher as the greatest...

Spa 2002, Schumacher does a lap near 4 secs faster than any none Ferrari and...... Wait for it 2 secs faster than Rubens... In the same car.!!!!


How about we wait until Vettel is done with F1 and look back retrospectively before claiming him as the GOAT?


Nope, not even close! Schumacher is the GOAT and always will be. He was truly the complete and utterly perfect racing driver.


By GOAT I take you mean 'The Greatest of All Time'.

I too appreciate the genius and hard work of Sebastian Vettel and thank him for his masterful performance at Singapore this past weekend. I do not rate him above the great Jim Clark, Juan Fangio, or Ayrton Senna however. Those men too were untouchable in their time.



Well, he delivers in a dominant car and certainly is faster than Webber. The rest ist all just in your head and remains to be seen.

Valentino from montreal

Now now , let's take a deep breath ..

Vettel is very good , best of this generation but Schumacher is a different story ..


Just a coincidence but that Toro Rosso was a Newey design..

Alexander Supertramp

That Toro Rosso had every right to win in the rain in 2008. Nobody, no-bo-dy wins in a car not capable of winning unless he gets very lucky. Vettel was not lucky, he won on pace.


Very good! Let's see them all in the rain.


He will beat it sooner or later..Remember theres more races now.


I agree with your sentiments. It seems almost inevitable that Vettel will eventually surpass Senna (41) and Prost (51) in wins but I am fairly confident, though obviously not certain that Schumacher's 91 wins will not be beaten.

Vettel might end up with a career total of 61 or 71. 😉


THAT is the only reason i have fun with vettels winning streak!

i want schummel schumis records get beaten as soon as possible.

that is the only fun at the moment, can somebody beat schumi. it will be another hard 2 years till vettel beat schumis successive WDCs, the maybe we will find him with ferrari ...


Schumacher said that records are there to be broken.

I think Schumi is safe, for VET hasn't done well in Brazil lately


If the "Newey car" (a term which is incredibly disrespectful to the hundreds of other people who work on the car) is really two seconds a lap faster than any other car, shouldn't Webber at least manage to get second place most of the time? The way Rubens did in the F2004?


Nope. This info does not make Vettel rubbish, nor does it show that Vettel would be nothing without Newey.

Yes, Newey does design a nice racecar.


a Rookie rosberg? you mean.

a old demotivated webber in a redbull that always breaks down? you mean.


Different stages of their careers


If you think the aero magic of RBR won't apply in 2014, you better brace yourself.


Didn't Alonso say he wanted the RB9?


Stats tart...well, someone has to win. Might as well be the best package. 🙂


So you mean he wants his team to give him a car as good as best and stop there? Not push for best car?

If the goal and spirit if F1 is not to make a car that's better than the rest than what's the point? Why not just make 1 car and paint it 22 different colors?


A completely ludicrous comparison by Anderson. When the press are coming out with that sort of nonsense it's no wonder some fans are booing Vettel. "Hey, Anderson says it's ALL THE CAR! Let's boo Vettel!"

Apparently Vettel keeps on fortuitously "finding himself in a perfect car", year after year. The possibility that Vettel has been adjusting himself to get the most out of whatever car he drives never seems to occur to Anderson.


Too early to say but who knows - if he has problems with payment, he may take a view

I think it's unlikely as he loves driving, but we will see


My information is that Ferrari has been asking questions in Technical Working Group meetings but it is about the fuel rules for next season and ways of boosting power with additives, as in the 1980s turbo days.


Haha. So Adrian and I have something in common afterall :)Thanks James, didn't know that.


Well if great grandfather to be Mick Jagger is a knight. Giving Newey a knighthood is the least he deserves. If I could I would make him a Duke.


Euskaltel Euskady is the name of the team and was sponsored 3,5 millions (of 9) by a Vasque brand called Euskaltel and 3,5 millions by the Vasque Goverment which retires from the proyect.

ALO wanted to own the team because it is one of the first cycling world league-with ProTour licence- apparently it was no easy for the team change the Vasque Country to Santander ( the place, ere ALO was born ) neither the sponsorship for Santander ( the bank ) of a team from Vasque Country. So aparently he is trying to start a new team from cero located in Santander ( the city) with Santander (the bank). FIAT was not sponsor, I have read.


Red Bull was winning before the tyre change, you can't say it affected the title race. And it was a change which simply had to be made. Indeed it was only "politics" which stopped it being made much earlier in the season.


"RedBull have spend far more money in the last 5 years than an other top team and in fact have broken agreed rules on spending caps overand over."

That's a lie, plain and simple. It's also libelous and the comment should be removed.


"Why arent anyone mentioning when RB withdraw from RRA. From what i understood the rest of the teams still practise that agreement"

A lot of F1 fans seem to know remarkably little about F1. Every team still adheres to the RRA. Red Bull, along with Ferrari, withdrew from FOTA.


There are some "rumore" in Itali that Ferrari is putting presure if the FIA to:

- Limit the number of engines in all 2014 season

- Extend the amount of petrol each engine can work with

and there are people thinking about this rumor:

- that it would be because Ferrari is not happy about theirs new V6 engines and

- that this is the reason ALO is fishing someteré else, just in case...


Don't forget they have an enormous speed advantage too so even if they would stop developing this years car I don't see Ferrari getting close.


Yes. I agree.

Newey is killing F1.





+ 🙂

Neither rubbing his nose in the dirt –

Lack of survival-cell and roll-over hoop would be deterrent enough!


Interesting comment to read, thanks. It nice to have new people commenting with fresh perspectives and their own ideas. Engaging with others is what makes F1 even more enjoyable for me.

As you say hopefully we will see Vettel battling away with the competition. Although I also like seeing how long a winning streak can go on. Like Kimmis recent run of races in points and no DNFs was great fun to see. Vettel's success and record breaking is something to marvel at and enjoy both now as it is happening and later.


I personally agree with the items youv'e listed. But dont forget a fourth ingredient. ... luck! Seb's engine did not fail But Weber's did. Look at the tire failures- LH was affected but Rosberg was lucky. and look at Seb's last race last year - he should have spun out when someone knocked him from behind. all luck


For sure ones success is the failure of the others. In certain aspects I may agree with you. SF had some very bad calls this year and RBR far less then ever. When talking about fastest car not needed to win the champion Alonso wasn't exactly saying. "Give me donkey and I'll beat the opposition". He ain't stupid but he never expected that his car would be degraded to the point that is unable to reach third row on the grid. By reverting to 2012 tire speck the battle was lost. It favored RBR big time and this is why bot Ferrari and Lotus/ Renault lost the edge over the drinks team. In my view that wasn't simply suppose to happen but it happen and everyone is trying to blame someone else and yet we have the culprit which we seem to forget. It is in the figure of the Trinity. BE/FIA/Pirelli. After the actions of the magic trinity all other aspects are just academic debate as we all witnessed in season moving of the goal posts. RBR capitalized on this note and that's what we have this year in the championship.


What F1 are you watching?, or give us some of What you are smoking.


I hate to say it, but I TOLD YOU SO!

Changing tires mid-season was always going to being this potential point that "Tires decided the Championship."

And while for purists, they should have just instructed teams on pressure, direction, camber limits and gone with same tires/construction for the season with the harder compund choices instead they decided to change tires mid season.

If I may Mr. Alonso remind you that whatever your views in this BBC piece about tires, you were well behind in the WDC before the tires changed. So please find another reason to blame for not being sucecssful 4th year running. You may have to fall victim to the marketing machine and drink some of the enemy's potion to "give you wings" perhaps?

Cheerio. 🙂


Vettel was already comfortably leading Alonso in the championship when the tyres were changed.

Alonso had the best car on balance up until the British Grand Prix yet Vettel still pulled away from him in the championship.


So a fundamental change that RB, Mercedes wanted due to tyres they couldn't manage where Lotus and Ferrari could isn't artificially changing the outcome of the season?

We'll never know if the outcome would have been the same if the tyres hadn't been changed due to safety reasons. So Alonso is correct in saying that he thinks the change of tyres was when Ferrari started to struggle.


Nothing new, a lot of people have thought the tyre change hurt Ferrari including me. Had to be done mind you.


Most professional journalist and team boss driver rankings last year put Hamilton ahead of Raikkonen, so on one level your proposition makes sense.

Part of stated argument for taking Kimi instead of Nico H was that with the new rules experience is important. Experience is only relevant if the drivers provide good feedback. James Allison apparently told Ferrari that Kimi was good. Hamilton does not have the same reputation - he is more known for driving around problems. This year it has been a bit of the Mercedes race engineers taking educated guess to get the set up right after a poor Friday. Rosberg is generally regarded as being much more technical that Hamilton. So on that scale, Hamilton may not have scored too well.

It is all guesswork as Hamilton was never in the market this year. I will say that anyone who points to Hamilton's technical skills on the basis of McLaren's and Mercedes' relative performance is better suited to marketing as he or she clearly has no idea about race car design and engineering.


Vaguely related: I read on the BBC that Alonso has backed out of the Basque cycling team. Doesn't say why. But it's sponsored, apparently, by Fiat, so it would be awkward if Alonso was no longer at Ferrari.

James, am I reading something into this that isn't there ?


Vettel had never won in Canada, the month of July, the German GP until this year. That stuff has no effect on him. Considering he won in 2010, would have won in 2011, was pretty fast in a damaged car last year. If there's a record he'll be interested in breaking it.


Not far enough IMO 🙂


those tyres were death traps


We will never know, however it is not fair to change the rules once the match has already started.


That's not really a fair comparison is it between a 100m springer and a f1 driver(I said a driver coz I believe it applies to all of them, before any of those childish my driver your driver comes in).

Whatever mr bolt achieve he achieved it himself, by running faster by himself. I never record anyone complaining his shoes are faster than those of his rivals wears. Where's in Motorsport, a driver does not win purely on their speed alone, they do not win a race by their won skill alone, especially in F1 as they never do have equal equipments to start with, not even among their teammates with different preference designed into the car.


Very good point. I believe the difference is Bolt has a likable personality - how he interacts with his fans comparatively.


Yes but Bolt doesn't throw his finger in everyone's face. (every time)


I actually think that the tyres has been more of an influence on Vettel's dominance than EBD. I'm sure people will correct me if I am wrong but I believe all of his WDC's have been on Perelle tyres


Maybe every second race could be a reverse grid determined by the current championship standings at the time backwards. A crazy and somewhat unfair idea, but it sure would mix everything up and give the lesser teams an opportunity while making the more competitive drivers work harder for their points.

This truly would show just who is the best, given such challenging circumstances.


Define normal, it's not like next years cars are street legal. In fact I would say with the new engines I would consider that next years cars will be the most different of any f1 car. All the haters saying it's all the car are getting proven wrong by good old mark webber so now you blame the type of car, clutching at straws think. Are front wings "trick air flow systems" meaning we can write off all drivers who won while they were used if we get rid of them. Seb won a GP before these set of rules in a torro Rosso, beating Lewis is the all dominant Mcclaren, he also skinned Lewis in the final race that year nearly costing him his WDC.


What are you talking about? Blown diffuser? Have you seen where the exhaust is positioned this year? Also the banning of off blown gas from the exhaust as well, just face it this year, last year, next year we'll see the same result, we'll also see Vettel go to Ferrari and clean up house yet again in probably 2015 or 2016 when Di Montazemolo gets fed up with Alonso's lack of qualifying pace, when Seb wins his 7th title with Ferrari I wonder where all the Hamilton and Alonso brigade will be hiding...


If only the other teams and drivers had access to that "blown diffuser/Coanda effect exhaust" ... wait, they do, don't they?


Of course. But those engineers in the aero department follow Newey´s leadership and his vision.


He wouldn't fancy rubbing in the baby oil!


That would be fun - expelled from an English public school, ends up being knighted!


Fox, the thing is, whatever people say of things equaling in the rain, car characteristics do still count. This Red Bull, with that amazing traction and it's easiness to warm up the tires is even more dominant in the rain than in dry conditions. It's true that drivers can make bigger differences in the rain, but the performance gap in those conditions is impossible to overcome even for a rain master like Alonso. Maybe Hamilton could do something, as the Mercedes is the second best car in the wet at present.


If someone thinks that Vettel is the GOAT, you have first to have a way to compare him to former drivers... For one e have seen the races in the 80's, see the races Ayrton Senna did in the rain... see Monaco 84, Estoril 85, the guy won nearly all the races he did in the rain, all the races he did in monaco... Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton admitted that problably Senna was the best driver ever, but if not Senna, Jim Clark, Fangio, but Vettel???


Same level of excitement but a much happier ending.


You're totally right. Thee only champkonship Seb won without worries was 2011, and maybe now in 2013. 2012 was a great season, very close outckme, as 2010 was. As a Ferrari fan I have to get over my frustation and accept that red bulls are just better cars. But I don't think that makes F1 boring at all. Actually, it's all Newey's fault.


And scary enough, neither Red Bull! They can switch ALL their attention to 2014 along with the rest of the field as no one is close enough to make a race of it. Yes, Vettel can dnf at 2 races, but he will still have a 10 point advantage and is point to win at least one or two of the remaining races.

In the bag.



But, I imagine that apart from the Olympics and World Championship -when viewers are watching 'the event'- I doubt as many viewers specifically switch on to watch Mr Bolt run as the result is a foregone conclusion. I am sure that viewing figures are tailing off for F1 at the moment. Although not a RB fan I appreciate the brilliance of the car, it is a shame that they aren't able to race each other.

When Mr Newey was designing for Williams at least both cars were competitive.


What Nico Rosberg, that guy that soundly beat the legend that is Michael Schumacher 3 years on the bounce (ok, the last year was touch in my eyes and go but still, never expected that did we)?

And of course Felipe Massa, you know, before his nasty career changing crash, the guy that beat the legend that is Kimi Raikkonen and was indeed world champion, if only for a few seconds back in 2008.

Get over yourself with the derogatory comments, this is F1 and these guys (well most of them) are the cream, thats why they are in F1. Vettel has done an amazing job this year no doubt but if you honestly think he alone is 2+ seconds faster than the rest of the field then I think you need to remember that F1 is about MAN and MACHINE before knocking the other drivers too much IMHO.


Of course the vast majority of people want to see a closer title battle. I don't understand your comment to be honest. No idea what you are talking about with ROS and MAS either.


I imagine that Seb would cringe thinking that you were a fan of his.

You don't do him any favours.


It was a combination of car, driver and bad rubber on the people behind Vettel. Vettel had to put the laps in, fast and consistent, to be able to do his pitstop and not get jumped by the guys who went in for new tyre during safety period. He did the job he was asked to do.


That's a good point! Reliability has never bren Neweys strong point, specially on new projects.


No, what are YOU smoking??!! Fan is right in every degree!


Now, now…this is not the time to lose hope & focus. 60 points is not that far away. All that is required is chip away 10 points every race. Together, we can do it!

I believe “gladiatore” Alonso will again show his magic. He started working on the psychological game long back, even before this season began.

By praising Hamilton and predicting that he will be his closest challenger in 2013, Alonso turned a former adversary (& his fans) into a friend. That would be important on track if Hamilton is ahead of Vettel.

By giving lift to Webber, Alonso further cemented his friendship (haven’t seen any other Spanish & Australian with German surname hanging out together elsewhere!). Having a friend within RBR could psychologically destabilise the team.

And then fans like me would help Alonso by booing Vettel everytime we get a chance, which will unnerve him from trying to unleash the full potential of Newey’s car again.

So I like Alonso’s strategy: He is surrounding Vettel with friends, just like the US did to USSR during Cold War–missiles stationed in the East, in the West and in the Space (the last one was a gimmick, but the Soviets fell for it). And, as we all know, history repeats itself.

Go Alonso! Vettel is now vulnerable!! If you need us to increase our booing, let us know by tweeter.


Why dose everybody complain of the MS years, don't get me wrong I love a bit of competition but it can also be great to see a hugely talented driver dominating, a 91 GP winner. Also a few of the MS years were close enough and SV won 2 of his 3 WDC titles in nail biting final races. If FA had won the title in Brazil last year would that have made the year more exciting?? The season was over anyway


It really isn't. Webber would have to finish runner-up to Vettel at least one year for that to be true, and that's not going to happen.


There are few concerns.

1. Byrne's involvement is still unknown. Is it full-time around the clock mission critical? Or consultative periodical with no responsibility for f%%k up?

2. Alonso is paid biggest salary because he deserved it (from Ferrari point of view). In any other team he would be paid a lot too. Everything else is similar to other rich teams.


Ferrari could only develop it's own car, hence may not stop other teams of developing theirs. On the other note if FIA/BE/Pirelli keep changing rubber specs in order to suit Red Bull only then what is the use of having Rory Byrne ? or anyone else for that matter. Ever since they reverted to the last year tire speck no one could touch "dze Finger boy".


'Resources devoted to Alonso' ??? Your talking about what every F1 team does to design and develop a racing car.......hire engineers. What extras has Alonso demanded that other drivers (ones that u don't dislike!) can do without? Would it be a wind tunnel that doesn't produce the estimated gains its supposed too?!

How far have they fallen? Runner up 2008, 2010 and 2012 and champs in 2007. Fair enough, alonso did play a HUGE role in propping them up but that's what all those resources give you! How far do you think McLaren fallen? Just as far as Ferrari? Twice as far or not as far? In your eyes It's probably fernando a fault anyway


I asked the question before:

How can everyone be so sure that Merc will have the best engine and Newey the best chassie, when there has been no testing, comparison etc.

Like Random79 said: almost anyone could succeed. Brawn a few years ago is a brilliant example.


I'm feeling the same way. Aerodynamically, the 2014 regs aren't as radical a departure from 2013 as 2009 was from 2008, but they are still a departure. And we've all seen what Newey can do with a clean sheet of paper. Vettel is already winning with the pokiest engine in the field. Unless Renault delivers a real pig next year, it might be business as usual for Red Bull. Are you listening Mr. Byrne?


What developments actually gave a car a boost? What changes made to a car involuntarily ment a set back compared to other designs?

I may be wrong, but my impression is that innovations like (arbitrarily picked) EBD, F-duct, coanda exhausts, double diffusor, double and passive DRS or further back active suspension were designs of creative engineers (may the designs have been finally declared legal or not) who tried to bring their ideas to life within the set of rules and possibilities. Sometimes the innovative team can capotalise on that, sometimes others do a copy that works even better.

On the other hand, voluntarily opening up new design lines (like Ferrari withthe front suspension change in 2012 or McLaren in 2013) is always insecure terrain and may result in a (temporary and sometimes anticipated) set back in performance.

But I can't believe that doing rule changes as it is the case for 2014 will lead to a complete mix-up, even only amongst the top teams only because they have to massively change their designs, because the lessons learned in the past should be applicable universally. You can get a Coanda wrong, but once you understand it, you won't get it wrong again. Of course the engines are a factor which can result in performance differences. But the scheme of developing a car over the season in a learned process should be similar to what we see now and that would mean that successful teams will prevail, lesser succesful teams will first have to get succesful, then they prevail.

The rule changes are not an arbitrary factor. They test how well teams can adapt and we know which ones were best at that up to now.


ERS is massively bigger and more important for next year than KERS is, and as we all know, Newey hates designing his cars around those batteries.

I think the RB next year will be combustible.


AN, Vettel & the team will do a great job, but will Renault? It'll only take a few engine failures to change things, won't it? Also, will turbo and Newey get along?


Lets mess up their gearboxes as they seem to be weak spot, hahahaha !!!


People you reading into something that he never said. He is simply saying that the season is at it's closing. That only if miracle happen he has to be there to collect extra points. He already admitted that he isn't able to contest the title, that's all that he said. Lets stop putting words in people mouth.


...including being taken off at the first corner twice. Now all we need is Grosjean to start qualifying better!


Isnt Webber the same guy who beat Rosberg in Williams the very same Rosberg who is giving Hamilton a run for his money?


Haha that is the funniest comment i have ever read on this forum, you saying Mark and Seb drive different cars, Seriously? What have you been smoking?


I'm a Mark Webber fan but have to agree with you. Vettel is a class act, although I think Alonso is right up there with him. These 2 drivers are just on another level.


Vettel best driver today? You must be kidding me?! Let's just see what he can do when he comes out of his Red Bull/Newey protective shell and goes to some other team that doesn't have a dominant car. Let's wait and see when and if that ever happens. Then his true skills will be put to the test.


30 second gap in a street circuit and after a SC - It can't be the car, it must be Vettel. Hahaha.


Interesting reading that in retrospect, ta for the link 🙂

'Form is temporary, class is permanent' is a great quote, but I'm kind of fond of 'they have a billionaire owner who can spends bonkers money on whatever he wants'.

Pretty much sums up RBR 🙂

I think they'll be fine in 2014, especially if they wrap up the WCC and WDC early (as it looks like they might) so Newey can really get cracking on next years car, but I don't think it will hurt anyone to see them have to fight a bit harder for it.


Wishful thinking, its easier for Redbull to stop development right now given their 60 points advantage.

If anyone can have the luxury of focusing on 2014 now or even from before the break, it was and is Redbull. This is not a close championship that they need to watch their backs.

So long as a reliable Redbull takes to the track, they have this championship in the bag. out of 150 points left, Vettel has a lead of 60 points.



@ All Revved up, I guess after both championships are clinched.

After that, interesting to see is if RB would let DR to drive MW's car (understood that SV will still be chasing the 91 win record so is unlikely for him to relinquish his ride) and DR's replacement to drive STR?


I very much doubt if RBR is so naive. Secondly the parts are tested on this year's car need not necessarily mean will work on the next year's car as that will be totally different. In testing scenarios (and I have testing experience in software), you cannot mix parts for two specs.


If there was internet and internet experts in the days of Fangio, people would be writing how Fangio or his teammates weren't that great because his cars were 5-10 seconds a lap faster in the race than the other cars. He also won about 90% of his races from the front row, lowest position was 3rd or 4th. In qualifying 5 seconds a lap faster than the rest with his teammate sometimes beating him and sometimes a couple of tenths behind him.

And Clark and Senna also won their championships in the best car. So following the arguments used against Vettel, never in the history of F1 there have been great drivers. Except Kimi maybe who won his title in the second best car because Hamilton and Alonso were busy being kids in the best car.


*Richard* I believe you're correct in your conclusion regarding Red Bull aerodynamics. Engine power is one thing, control of the car, and being able to put that power down to the road is quite another.

If I had to predict which teams will do well next year I'd have to say Red Bull will remain at the top, with Caterham, Williams and Merc being better, while Ferrari, Lotus, Force India and McLaren will be worse.


Still talking as if its all Newey, this is getting tiresome, and you're wrong the Redbull has historically been poor in the drag department its just recently that they have improved in the area, their top speed is usually the slowest out of any team and look at the historic results from Monza and Canada especially in 2009 and 2010, its just that the team has been transformed by Vettel, how comes Newey couldn't win anything from 2000-2009?


You're talking as if its the world against Vettel/Redbull, is it there fault when your driver are failing, I mean whats chances are there for the championships when team mates like Rosberg and Massa are too much of a handful???


I remember one of James' articles from that year, as Brawn and Newey beat the more established Ferrari and McLaren out of the traps with the new regs, his observation re their engineering prowess was was "form is temporary, class is permanent."

The chances of Red Bull starting next year on the back foot are very slim, I'd have thought.

It's just a shame Milton Keynes seems to be a suburb of Austria come the anthems.


VET is great in the rain. His first win in a car that had no right to win was in the rain. All his poles in the first half of the season was under wet conditions.


Red Bull switched to McLaren alternators this season after their problems with the MM unit over the years.


Also what a fresh change to hear his engineer asking him to push as hard as he can instead of asking him to slow down.


Have no fear, Baby-Schumi is here. He simply inherited the honourable duty of maintaining the natural order. Why settle for less?


Its amazing how strong RedBull has been coming after the August break each year. That has been the defining period of their success in the last 4 years. Why is it that the other teams can improve their cars as much?


It's the same realism facing world athletics 100m competition, there's no-one remotely capable of consistently beating Bolt - the only difference, they're not booing Bolt.

Like you, and I think the whole of F1, I'm praying for a more even competition next year, but something tells me Bolt isn't gonna be beaten anytime soon and nor is Red Bull next year either.


I could not agree more, everyone is banking on a reset next year, casual fans, hard-core fans, pundits, teams and drivers! If it does not happen it really will be depressing.

But the problem is not with RBR, it's with the likes of Ferrari and McLaren and, to a lesser extent, Mercedes. These are the teams that we have a right to expect to make a fight of the championship. The fact that they cannot with all their years of experience is shameful and embarrassing for everyone concerned. They are not just letting down their sponsors, they're letting us all down.


They just as well get full into work for next years car now


Vettel's dominance hopefully will come to an end. He is better than everyone using the blown diffuser/Coanda effect exhausts, a bit reminiscent of the Schumacher with special Bridgestone tires years... no one could get close to him. Hopefully next season with more "normal" cars the skills of HAM, ALO and RAI will shine and Vet is going to have to drive an F1 without a trick exhaust system for the first time. Hopefully it will take him some time to get used to it. VET is great and all, but it is beginning to get terribly boring.


I think the only game being played now is to make Red Bull think that Ferrari have not given up and will continue to develop their car.

In reality, while RB continues to develop their car to secure the 2013 titles, Ferrari have already diverted all resources towards 2014.

Mercedes have come out quite early to say that they were focused on 2014 car development.

Hence the RB car is so dominant because the rivals no longer develop their car.

The "new parts" brought by various teams are experiments for next year - hence the frequency of "new parts" that "don't work" and are taken off on race day. But if they also work well on this year's car, they stay on for race day.

Even McLaren shows some improvement despite obviously 100% focused on next year's car - since their 2013 championship aspirations are long gone.

It'll be interesting to see exactly when A.Newey stays back at the factory to work 100% on the 2014 car.


I very much doubt much will really change next year. Adrian Newey will be able to design a fast car around next years regs. It'll be the same as this year. But the only hope is Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes all manage to design something as quick and Red Bull don't have a distinct advantage! We can all hope I guess.....


The last big regulation change (08-09) turned things completely upside-down, so it's not out of the question that the same will happen again next year.

Anyone could be on top in 2014: Mercedes, Ferrari, Caterham (doubtful), or even *sigh* Red Bull 🙁 ...but on second thoughts that would give Ricciardo a shot at the title, so more RBR dominance is not all bad if you're an Aussie 🙂


Also, it really is reminiscent of the Schumacher Ferrari years 2000-2004.


As for the other set of 5 years (WDC winning teams include)


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