F1 Winter Break
Horner: Ricciardo will get same opportunities as Vettel at Red Bull
Red Bull Racing
Posted By: James Allen  |  04 Sep 2013   |  3:25 pm GMT  |  208 comments

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner says Daniel Ricciardo will get the same equipment and opportunities as reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel when he joins the team next season.

The Australian, who currently drives for Red Bull’s junior team Toro Rosso, will graduate to the senior team next season as a replacement for Mark Webber who is leaving the sport to pursue a career with Porsche in sportscars.

Horner told BBC Radio 5 live: “We expect him to challenge Sebastian. He’s employed by team to do the best job that he can. He’ll get equal opportunity. He’ll get the same chance, the same equipment [as Sebastian] and it will be down to what he does on the circuit that counts at the end of the day.”

Lotus driver Kimi Raikkonen and even Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso have been linked with Red Bull, but it was Ricciardo, who won the British Formula Three championship in 2009, who got the nod.

The Australian made his F1 debut at the 2011 British Grand Prix with HRT and has since competed in 42 grands prix in total with a best finish of seventh in the Chinese Grand Prix earlier this year.

The 24-year-old then impressed when he tested for Red Bull at the young driver test at Silverstone in July.

“Daniel has really earned his place in the team,” added Horner. “We wanted to put together a strong pairing not just for next year but for future seasons.

“He tested really impressively with us earlier in the summer and obviously we have been keeping a close eye on his performances in Toro Rosso and therefore it was logical to give him a drive.

“He’s a really exciting prospect. He’s a young guy, he’s already won a championship in British Formula Three and he’s won a lot of races in junior categories.

“He’s got a good character and personality, he’s always got a smile on his face, but most importantly he’s seriously quick.”

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See everyone. That clears it up.


I don't doubt that he'll get equal equipment, but I do doubt he'll get the same level of emotional support and I can't see any borderline decisions between him and Vettel on track going his way internally either.

In many very important ways he will certianly be a number 2 driver, perhaps rightly so.

Of the top teams I belive that only McLaren are true to their word and offer nither driver any favouritism in any form what so ever. HAM certainly didn't get any, and iof they were going to favour anyone recently it would have been him. Having said that, Ferrari are also true to their word, they do not pretend that they have two equal drivers and I admire their honesty. Who knows how it will pan out at Mercedes, but I suspect that no 1 status will have to be earned.


Newsflash!!! Team Principal justifies decision by saying exactly what he was expected to say.

Experts wonder why anyone is surprised.

More news at 11...


Of course it's a false statement. That was the point of my OP.

But who cares. Why should Vettel not get preferential treatment? Team Alonso, or team Raikkonen get it. Ask Massa and Grosjean. TBH I don't think Rosberg is on equal footing either.

So what's the point? That F1 teams support the better, faster and more complete driver to enhance their chances?

Congratulations to all who have suspected Vettel pref. Treatment. You are a super sleuths.

This has been going on since Fangio, Senna, Lauda, Schumacher, Raikkonen and Alonso.

Big deal... Move on. They earn there place with results and speed than amplify their already dominant talents with extra team support.

Oh my...Shock and horror!


There is little doubt, in my mind, that having a #1 and #2 driver is the most efficient way to run a team. The problems come when there is a dominant team and they don't allow their drivers to race each other. For example, Ferrari with MSC and RB - it becomes boring for the viewers and ultimately that is a problem for the sport/teams.

But you are correct, a driver earns their #1 status - it is not gifted to them.


And so are the perils of a sport that allows team orders. Instead of 8 cars fighting it out at the front of the field, we get 4. Yaaaay


A quick Scan of his contract would really clear that up!


James who would you have put in the second red bull seat? Most people think kimi was made for that drive. I don't think Daniel is ready to be at the front. A bit like heikki in 2008-2009


I like Ricciardo, always have. Always thought he was better than Vergne, certainly faster. We won't know if he can cut it until he's thrown into it.


I think I'd have gone for Rosberg.

Nico is pretty much at the same level as Lewis, a quick driver often let down by the inadequacies of his machinery. By pitting him directly against Vettel in the same team it sets a standard in terms of performance necessary to beat the middle order, aspirational driver.

It's only Kimi and Fernando that persistently outperform this group. And, of course, Seb himself.


Rosberg's not bad and has beaten Hamilton a few times and has had real bad luck this season thats why he is so far back on points but he's not that great, even in alot of quali last year against a 43 year old Schumi he was often beaten and he was trounced by Webber in the same car hrle wouldn't stand a chance against Vettel he would be driven to retirement like Kovalainen was at Mclaren.


Nico is pretty much at the same level as Lewis...

Aside from being out qualified 8/3 and trailing by 40+ points, you are right. They are almost exactly at the same level!


And inherriting HAM's Silverstone win.


Rosberg?! He has to be the most overrated driver on the grid. I know he's pocketed a couple of wins, but he has come up far short of Hamilton.


Excuse me same level as hamilton, thats a cracker, and your next joke is


I'd put a lock on that front wing Daniel!


Isnt Rosberg locked untill 2015?


Ricciardo is as far better than Kovalainen, Heikki couldn't hold a candle to even someone like Massa or Perez.


I think that's a bit harsh on Heikki. He had a great rookie season, beating Fisichella, and a good start at McLaren, but after his big accident at the Spanish GP, he wasn't able to challenge Lewis later in the season anymore (and I'd argue one reason for that was that McLaren started to favor Lewis with their updates, though Heikki certainly should've coped better in any case). He has certainly shown more pace and better race craft than Perez.


Well he was often beaten by Fisi and barely beat him overall which is not that much of an achievement seen as Fisi was on a downward slope then anyway, at Mclaren he was never challenging Hamilton before the accident at Barcelona or after that, his racecraft was substandard and almost always beaten by slower cars that accident did nothing to slow him down or improve him, Perez was driving like that at the first few races of this season and Whitmarsh warned him it was unacceptable and he has turned it up mid season even though he's had a few incidents but the fact is Perez can respond calls for him to change Kovalainen couldn't do a thing in 2008 when he had the best overall car and was trounced by Massa, Kovalainen is an above average qualifier but to say his racecraft is anything but diabolical would be a lie.


I for one believe it. 🙂

Before you doubt and worry about Webber starts or alternators, look at how many times Vettel has retired from lead in recent years. Newey's cars can be fragile as Kimi knows all too well.


Equal equipment (bar one famous incident).

Unequal strategy

Unequal support

The number of times Webber has been given poor strategy choices by the team is ... well, many. Seb - very rarely.

And for support - just look to the Turkey collision.


Red Bull runs a policy of whoever is leading gets first call on pitstops if nothing else is a factor. In Malaysia this year Hamilton was a factor so Vettel was stopped first. Since Vettel is generally in front he got first call. When he wasn't he didn't.


But, in Monaco last year (or the year before), Webber was leading, but they tried to jump Vettel over Webber, by running Webber longer than needed. That wasn't his call!!


At the first stops Vettel stopped first when swapping the inters out for slicks. This was the wrong call as they were still good for a couple more laps, which let Webber out in front. This was part of what got my goat about Malaysia: Mark made the better driver's call and got track position, and Vettel's moaning and subsequent conduct showed how butthurt he was. RBR gave him the undercut to get ahead of the Mercs, but with the stop preference Mark would have been further down the road after driving to deltas and managing his tyres (something Mark actually did better than Vettel in Melbourne too). This is why they made the multi21 call: despite Seb's pace, Mark was technically ahead.


Most teams run that system.

But quite often in last few years Webber has needed to stop earlier than Vettel because his tyre had gone.


A lot of Webber's poor strategy choices have been enforced because of poor qualifying. He has frequently qualified further down the grid than Vettel and so had to take a gamble on different strategies.

And even when they have been running behind one another in the race, any team is going to give the first call on strategy to the driver that has the best chance of winning the race. That has usually been Vettel. I really like Mark, but a lot of his problems have been caused by the fact that his qualifying and starts have been consistently worse than Vettel's.


Given that the Red Bull derives it's performance from aero and being in clear air and lacks the straight line mumbo compared to its rivals, second place is too far down the grid...


It started from Webber's first win in Germany '09. The atmosphere in the RBR motorhome bar was apparently close to funereal.

All Daniel can do is be quick. If he's quicker, and consistent, then eventually RBR will be left with no option but to back him over Vettel. He is certainly the Happy Warrior type, which people naturally gravitate towards.


I felt horrible for Mark when I heard it was like a funeral in the pits after his first win at the Nurburgring. Then again, that weekend he pretty much left everyone else for dead!


Plus, the claim of 'equal equipment' doesn't specify who the equipment was built for, who's driving style it suits, etc.


This is true.

And reality is you would build it for your WDC. Perhaps this is what RBR were evaluating at the YDT between Vettel and Daniel...to see if their needs and styles align?


At the start of each year each driver starts with a clean slate. forget turkey even before turkey Vettel was beating Webber in 2009 in the same car and in 2007 in the sister car of torro rosso(they were technically very identical except for the engines and Monza 2008 was a wet race so engine performance was not of paramount importance. That means for 5 years in a row in the same machine he has been beaten by Vettel.

Strategy calls are always made by the team with full cooperation of the driver. If the driver doesnt like a strategy he can always change it his opinion always matters and nothing is forced upon a driver when it comes to strategy. Its ironic that Webber has had issues at the start for the last 3 years. It could be very possible that Webber is some way responsible for his own poor starts.

And as for the Turkey collision, one must remember that Vettel was a product of the young driver program which Helmut is in charge of so its natural he would support his protege. But one must not forget that Webber and Dietrich Mateschitz have a very close relationship closer than what Dietrich shares with Horner. As far i last checked Dietrich is still the boss and still has a lot of say on how is team is run so there is no way Webber will get any different treatment or equipment than what Vettel receives. And if there any truth about these rumors Webber would have definitely signed for Ferrari or some other team. He was approached by Ferrari before they reconfirmed Massa. If Redbull really supported only Vettel they would have forced Webber into retirement or out of the team and taken a more willing teammate to support Vettel's championship bids. Secondly Vettel is liked in the entire Redbull factory and garage because he is a likable character no matter what the media portrays him or the fans think of him. Those who know him really attest to the fact that he is more approachable as a person and genuinely a very nice person


There's nothing wrong with the way Vettel won his championships Webber had his crack it for years but just not good enough often beaten by slower cars, all the digs at Vettel is nothing but jealousy by the english speaking media and fans, Seb will win more titles and fight for many more and will probably be Ferrari's next champion just get use to it.


Hey, someone has to have a choice of strategy. Wouldn't you give it to the guy with the #1 sticker thrice on his car? As a team principal, I would.


He didn't always have the No.1 on his car but don't worry Helmet was always there to make sure Seb got preferential - whoops I mean equal treatment.


Yes the amount of times Vettel's car broke down from the lead in the last few years is shocking and Webber had his chance just wasn't good enough.


maybe you're on to something.

How many times?

And, can you compare to say, MS during his reign and perhaps Hakkinen from his start at McLaren?



"Turkey: On course for victory when he made that move on Webber but retired whilst Webber and Hamilton benefit big time"

How did Webber benefit big time?

Was leading the race and finished third due to crash caused by Vettel???


"Hungary: Cruising at the front easily the fastest car on the track would have been an easy win but for a petty drive through penalty because he was too far back from the safety car cost him another win."

It's not petty if its actually a rule.

Re-file this under rookie mistake too!!


How about to Kimi in the 05 Adrian McLaren?

I mentioned to someone else, a few days back that everyone is googoo over Kimi and credit him with incredible performances is his 05 McLaren year. But no one is saying today..."Oh, that genius Newey should take credit for 05 as he gave Kimi the car!". Yet what is all the talk aboit Vettel?

Kimi driving fast Newey 05 car - all credit to Kimi. Vettel driving Newey car - all credit to Newey? Does it make sense? You as a Kimi fan are well placed to give feedback.

As for DNF stats...goferet? 🙂


Ferrari reliability was much better than McLaren's. Schumi had the record for consecutive points finishes. Suzuka 2006 is the only race win losing failure while leading that I can remember in a Ferrari.

Hakkinen had more failures including many in 2007 while in position to win. Vettel's failure total while leading is probably similar to Hakkinen's. Schumacher's would be less and he won three times as many. Italian car reliability for you... (just don't put German electrics in them like my Alfa...).


Well lets have a look at Vettel's problems just in 2010,

Bahrain: Spark plug failure near the end whilst leading robbed a certain win and handed the win to Alonso.

Australia: Brake failure whilst leading in a race he probably would have won.

Spain and Monaco: Raced with a cracked chassis costing almost half a second a lap and wasn't able to challenge for victories.

Turkey: On course for victory when he made that move on Webber but retired whilst Webber and Hamilton benefit big time, regardless of whos fault Seb lost the most there and another win gone.

Sikverstone: A rare poor start from pole led to the incident where Hamilton's front wing cut the rear tyre and again no point when the win was there to be taken.

Hungary: Cruising at the front easily the fastest car on the track would have been an easy win but for a petty drive through penalty because he was too far back from the safety car cost him another win.

Spa: T-bone into Button was a rookie mistake but would have at least had 2nd but let Webber gain valuable points.

Monza: Slight glitch with engine mid race but fought back and beat Webber and the others that was around that group in the top 4.

Korea: Engine failure towards end of race whilst easily in the lead on course for another win, Webber was probably laughing his head off in the garage and Alonso certainly was couldn't hide his delight after the race.

To win the title after all those problems at the age of 22-23 is remarkable so when things do go wrong he seems untouchable so the only way to stop Seb is to actually not let him race.

Obviously other mechanical failures like Valencia 2012 and Silverstone 2013 would probably have derailed other title challengers its only a footnote for Seb.


races from 2010 onwards where Vettel lost the race due to car problems (either DNF or dropped places):

Bahrain 2010

Australia 2010

Korea 2010

Abu Dhabi 2011

Brazil 2011

Valencia 2012

Silverstone 2013

there are quite a few other races where he had car problems as well but as he wasn't leading those, I have not listed them.


Even with this "shocking" amount of dnf's, the guy won 04 WDC's (including 2013). Says everything, humm???


Really...Add up the mechanical failures RBR had in the last 3 years and they would not be as much as Mclaren had in 1 year in 2005. People seem to forget the technical regulations for teams to improve components reliability since 2006. Different times/ rules people !!- Kimi would be a triple a WC if his engine did not let go in the lead of 4 GPs in 2003 & 2005 and several other wing/ component failures in strong postions. He got as much exercise walking back to the pits / climbing fences as he did pre season !..Interestingly Kimi got pole postion at Monza 2005 & 2006 - But as his engine let go in FP in 2006 he started 11th.


Yeah says everything about his talent, if it was anyone else having a few problems they'd all lose the title and blame the retirements i.e. Hakkinen 2000, Schumacher 2006, Hamilton 2007, 2012, Kimi 2005...


Agreed... except for clutches acting up at the start, and KERS.

Aside from those performance killers, the actual attrition is pretty even between them.


Could Webber just be a poor standing starter? Didn't he start in F1 with launch control? Wasn't launch control present in F1 for many of his years and maybe it hid his weakness?

LeMans starts with a rolling start right? Maybe that's why he switched categories? 🙂


Don't they just have a two-stage clutch where you dump the first one for a certain amount of slip, and then dump the second one to fully engage?

Unless he's accidentally dumping the second one first, I fail to see how it's his fault.


I agree. Webber has pooched starts so consistently that it can't be all about the car.


I don't but I hope I'm wrong.


yes...sure....he will. I have seen enough:-)

Multi 21?


You know Multi21 was to make Webber win, right? It was a team order against Vettel.


Exactly K. This was an instance where the team dwcision favoured Webber, not Vettel. That he broke the team order is something completely different.


Next, they will have us believing that Webber really turned down his engine! 🙂


Baloney. Multi 21 was that cars 2 and 1 hold station in that order. Vettel defied team orders.


How is what K said baloney then? Vettel defied team order that was given against him, that is, a team order that was meant to make Webber winner of the race, exactly as K said.


Huh? Did you read correctly what I wrote?

I said Vettel got team orders to not overtake Webber and you said baloney to that and then said what I said.


Multi 21 was agreed before the race and statistically it was expected that Vettel will be ahead, so based on your logic, it was to ensure that Webber will not win


Are you for real - can you read what 2 followed by 1 Means ?

Get a grip and stop smoking what you are if you want to have any credibility in an argument.

Using the work "statistically" with no idea of what 2 and 1 is, is hilarious !


That is not correct. 2 is for car 2 (Webber) and 1 is for car 1 (Vettel). Multi21 meant that Vettel was not allowed to overtake Webber so it was a team order against Vettel.

So there goes your theory that Vettel gets special treatment.


Hmmm, let me get this straight... in your world, an example of RBR issuing "hold your stations" order against their triple champion (one he duly disobeyed) is a sign of future unfair treatment of Ricciardo. Some logic.


No, in my world...equal treatment imposed by management means making drivers respect the decision of the team and stick to commitments. Vettel knows it perfectly that when Daniel will be ahead of him in the race and Multi 21 message will come, it doesn't apply to him.


Hello multi 21 was there to help Webber so the team favoured Mark?????? Wow. The thing is when did Webber ever listen to team orders? He was open about ignoring team orders and yet he's done nothing wrong he even nearly cost Seb the title at Brazil last year, I'm for 1 glad Seb put the final nail in this 2nd rate driver's coffin at Malaysia, if Webber was faster he could have fought back but there's not enough talent there on track for Webber to get the job done and then he cries to the media, it was pathetic.


It dint apply to Webber too in Silverstone in 2011. If Webber cant follow orders why should Vettel??? I mean when the driver you expect to support your title bid at the last race almost squeezes you off the track on the first corner you know there's no respect


If that's your definition of equal treatment then you must have been very upset all those times Webber ignored team orders and RB failed to make him "respect the decision" and "stick to commitments".


At RBR all employees get 10K money reward for WDC/WCC.

Vettel gets one "walk on water" card.

Having used one in Malaysia, I think he may have 2 cards left. 🙂

Alexander Supertramp

Well this is hilarious.. RB are not looking for the next big thing, they just need solid points for the WCC.


I know where the comments will be going on this one. So lets see people, I want hard facts of where Webber was given less machinery than Vettel:

Silverstone 2010: Front wing iterative update - reason given, VET ahead in WDC.

Roll up, roll up...


Wow all the fuss about a nose cone that gave 1tenths, maybe Vettel has been given dodgy engines and altenators to help Webber yeah?


It doesn't matter anyway..SV is the quicker driver and always has been as 3 (soon 4) WDC prove.

As a biased MW fan, I'm just disappointed on the rare days when MW by luck or circumstance has been ahead of SV, the team has let him down. Turkey and Malaysia the best examples.

And had MW not crashed in Korea 2010, he might have got some of those calls his way. However, ifs and buts don't matter, and as I said SV is quicker full stop.

Back to another question I wrote somewhere..anyone know how much DR weighs?


I'd imagine the short answer is less than Mark, and even at 6ft tall Mark can hardly lose any more. At least this will give Ricciardo a chance to move some ballast around the car to refine the CoG and gain a couple of tenths


Turkey 2010...MW told to turn down his engine, SV not told to turn down his engine.

Malaysia 2013...MW told to turn down his engine, SV not told to turn down his engine.

Good enough for you?


No - Vettel was able to save fuel being in Webber's slipstream. Webber need to save fuel so when Rocky learnt of this he got his driver to attack. Some of the key team members chose to back Vettel in the crash though.

In Malaysia Vettel actively disobeyed team orders.


These are examples of unequal equipment?

For all you know Webber was carrying less fuel and had to turn down his engine to get to the finish line.


He was ahead by only 12 pts, with 10 races still to go in the season. It's not like they only had one of the new parts. They had two; Vettel wrecked his.

Was there any record of the opposite happening in 2010 with new parts when Webber was ahead in the standings (which was most of the season)? I don't recall any instance of that happening.


There is more to the story though. Webber didn't feel the benefit of the front wing, but Vettel did - theoretical 0.1 second advantage that suited one driver but made no change for the other. Webber saw a performance opportunity by denying Vettel a part that Webber wasn't going to use. Instead he turned it into a political advantage that has played out ever since.

Red Bull has always aimed, and as far I know succeeded in having parts for both cars at all races, unlike Ferrari. Webber has said that he's had equal access but implied the psychological support isn't there. He's said that on Australian TV a few times (I'm in Oz). Don't mistake Webber's straight talking for Raikkonen's apolitical nature.




Sounds plausible, and if so, I didn't know that. If Webber wasn't going to use it, then of course Vettel should've had a choice to use it or not. Waste not, want not.


Vettel did not wreck his wing. It failed.


Even then, it failed on his car. Tough luck for him. Shouldn't mean that the sister part gets taken off of Webber's car.

Unless of course it was a situation like that mentioned below by Martin, where Webber had no intention of ever using the part in the first place.


Well he may get the same equipment to start off with, but will he get to keep it if Vettel breaks his? Unlikely.

Red Bull just come across as the most unsporting team ever and they are going to have to work hard to shake that image. They even went as far as choosing to confirm the new driver on McLaren's 50th birthday to take the spotlight away from such a big achievement.


Most unsporting team ever? remember Ferrari with those decisions against Rubens even starting the championship or last year when they cut something in Massa's gearbox just to get Alonso one spot ahead on the grid. Red Bull hasn't done anything worse than other teams had done, remember the spygate of McLaren in 2007 or the Renault crashgate, and I can keep going with many other teams and situations, you are totally biased.


Ha! Just like Mark Webber did?


Yup, same contract template as Webber. 🙂


Barrichello mentioned recently that his contract said that he would get the same equipment. Problem was, Schumacher's didn't...


Ha ha, this is hilarious! Great thinking, I would expect no less from Herr Schumacher.


He'll get the same 'equal' treatment that Mark Webber got! Hold onto your front wing Daniel!


Interesting language, and in F1 language and nuance are everything. In this case, I note Horner did not say that he would get the same opportunities as Webber got.


I cant wait for someone to consistently beat Vettel and we all get to see the end of that single finger salute he is so fond of...

Sadly it wont be Kimi taking it to him that would have been a great scrap to behold.

Instead we get to see a number 1 with a compliant Ricciardo as number 2.

Well say goodbye to the constructors in 2014....

I want to see Williams and Ferrari back at the top again! Hell even Mercedes would be good.


No one on he grid at this time can consistently beat Vettel in the same car right now, just a shame Kimi didn't join and do worse than Webber or maybe even Ricciardo, Vettel will win at least 6 titles get use to seeing the finger and his 'yes!' voice for years to come.


no doubting Vettel claims on known data, i.e. beaten all teammates, but you're off colour with the Kimi comment, and as facts go, we're not likely to see hem in the same car. Concerning multiple championships, if you can tell, will you let me in on the details of the Vettel championship wins, now?


He will win until Newey is there. After that, it' s over.


Newey went a decade with no titles until he worked with Vettel.


I don't understand the negativity toward the #1 salute SV does. Have you ever watched pro sports? Celebrating when you are number 1 (which he is) is expected. In fact his is lower key than most.


Lower key than most. Really?

The squeeling down the radio after a straightforward lights to flag victory is low key?


Maybe you ought to turn up bass and lower trebble on your TV.. 🙂

Besides to each his own way of celebrating a win.


Why? It is unbearably crass and demonstrates his complete lack of humility when winning in vastly superior machinery. Clearly he has no awareness that his claim to be 'no.1' is very much open to debate, regardless of 3 x wdc.

I could go on but of course criticism of Vettel is tantamount to blasphemy these days.


Vastly superior machinery? Other than Hamilton and Alonso who keep baying that this is the reason Vettel wins, who says this?

Do you have numbers of downforce, accelration, drag..etc that proves that the RBR is vastly superior?


Blimey there goes that flying pig again 😉


And why wouldn't he ?

All because Webber and his fans could not accept him being beaten fair and square by Vettel, they hinted at, then fed rumours of his "No2" status to excuse him getting comprehensively spanked by Seb week in week out. Webber, like the classic No2 driver, can be fast at times, but ends up messing up half his qualis and frequently goes backwards in races, not forwards like Seb. There was a yawning gulf between them in quality, one that, [mod], I hope Ricci bridges.

How well he does this will be interesting to see, I hope the crass chat about team status soon ends up in the bin where it belongs.


FYI, i'm a Webber fan and don't buy into the conspiracy theories. Vettel has, without doubt, beaten Webber comprehensively for several years. The front wing thing cancelled out when Webber won the race anyway. I lose zero sleep whether Mark wins or not. I imagine he feels the same way about me. It's only sporting entertainment anyway.



Next time you need your car fixed bring it to me.

I have some clutch settings id like to set for you, trust me.


I'm surprised these insults and digs are allowed on here, if you want new house built to live in come to me, I have a few structure settings I like to install for you trust me...


Your original comment seems to me to be an insult and a dig but thats ok we are all entitled to an opinion. Mine was "tongue in cheek", so please dont be so precious.


"Despite his nationality"?

What the hell would that have to do with anything?


These sort of hiring do not excite me at all...

If it was someone like Kobi, that would be a different story...

This hiring was just to prevent any threat to Vettel.


I don't know. I think it is pretty hard to judge how great a driver is when they are driving a mid pack car.

Someone else posted on another article that RedBull and TR have a great deal more information on just how good Dan is, from testing and simulator time. This I think was a good point.

I don't think RedBull would put a poor driver in the best F1 car. I am sure RedBull want to show that it is the RedBull team and the car and not just Vettel that produces such fantastic results.

At this stage from my perspective it looks like Mark Webber is and has been performing woefully. Mark Webbber has the best car and has had the best car for years and is just hopeless. I won't go into my thoughts on Webbers attitude, but I suppose he is bitter and angry that he isn't good enough and his deficiencies are for all the world to see.

So I suppose we will soon be able to see how much is the car and how much is Vettel when Dan gets there and this is what I am looking forward to most of all. A chance to see another driver in the RedBull so that we can take a measure of Vettel. It is just a shame that it will be under the new regulations.


smart people play acc to their strenghts mate...their winning formula has borne fruits for them...but on the other hand they want their other driver to show it at track that he isnt number two...push eachother hard and harmonise when requered...


Mr Horner, we all know that!

Webber and Vettel also had equal status however, there were failures/issues predominantly on one car!

something along similar lines is expected if Ricciardo does manage to challenge Vettel! till then his car won't have much problems 🙂


I wonder just how many races Webber retired when leading. almost every single year Vettel has a retirement while leading. There has been one this year, one last year one in 2011(puncture) and 4 or 5 car issues in 2010(including retirements). Webbers start issues are more down to him being a lousy starter than to any car issues. Its unlikely that for 3 years he would suffer from similar issues. I think he just chokes at the start and the team is being to kind to him by not blaming him


"there were failures/issues predominantly on one car!"

There were not. The two Red Bull cars were equally reliable. Or equally unreliable, if you like.


Quite an undertaking to dedicate so much of your life towards defending Vettel's honour.


Well said.


I know Ricciardo has good relationship with Vettel and Helmut Marko. So his life won´t be misserable. But what this guy has shown? Only a couple of decent qually performances but nothing very impressive during a race. I mean he hasn´t won not even one podium yet. If he wants equal treatment he has to earn it. Lucky for him he has plenty of time to do it. Of course nobody in RB will say it. They have to be politically correct and they say Ricciardo will be given equal treatment.


Sorry, but a Toro Rosso isn't a podium-worthy car at the moment. It is a points scorer, but not podium.

Back in 2008, it was a giant killer, especially in the wet. Keep in mind that when Vettel got pole at Monza in the STR, Bourdais qualified fourth, not far off. Also keep in mind that Bourdais' car failed on the warm up lap, and he started from pitlane... but ended up setting fastest lap after fastest lap through the race.

Ricciardo has proven himself to be worthy of the seat. To be honest, Vergne has too. It will be interesting to see what happens with Vergne in a year or two.

If Webber decides to part with RBR early, it would be very interesting to see Ricciardo get a few races with RBR, and Vergne also get a few races with RBR. Get some real comparisons with Vettel... that won't happen with Vergne, because RBR won't want the world to see if it turns out they made the wrong choice! Would be interesting though...


Listen Buddy. I don't underestimate Ricardo. I think he is a good driver and even though I

feel Verne has a slight edge over Ricardo, Verne isn't as consistent as Ricardo. Why

should only the top guns get the best cars. Kimi, Hamilton Vettel all proved given a opportunity they could deliver too.

And yes although I am a fan of Vettel. But he isn't the only one I admire and support. I like Lewis but I would prefer he shut his mouth and let his driving do the talking.

I feel he lacks focus and lets his personal life get the better of his professional life. Although He still lacks the focus of Vettel, Kimi and Alonso, Moving to Mercedes will help him grow and mature both as a person and as a complete driver and hopefully next year Mercedes can give him a competitive car. I like Kimi too. I admire Alonso as a driver but I do not like his personality.

Ricardo deserved his opportunity but I would rather see Vettel teamed up with Lewis or Alonso rather than Kimi because he gets along very well with Kimi and I have a feeling he and Ricardo will get along well(maybe I am wrong) Plus with Kimi you will not get the same Drama and hostility like the others as they are very good friends(Remember Kimi had no issues playing second fiddle to Massa in 2008). And beating Kimi in the same car wouldn't do anything to Vettels reputation because some people still cant believe that Kimi was beaten by Massa but beating Lewis or Alonso in the same machine will silence his critics once and for all.

Here are all the races that were held in damp/wet/drying/raining condition

2009 Chinese GP Heavy Rains Vettel starts first Finish first(Redbulls first Victory)

2009 Malaysia GP Vettel spun off on lap 31 due to aquaplaning(not a driver error) Race called off on lap 32

2010 Australia GP was leading until lap 25 and seemed to be cruising for Victory when he had to retire due to mechanical Failure

2010 Belgian Gp Crashes into Button has to pit and then repit for penalty, Good recovery through the field before making contact with Liuzzi and suffering a slow puncture and having to limp to the pit effectively ending his race

2010 Chinese GP wrong call by the team to put on intermediate necessitated an extra pit stop that ruined his race Finished 6th

2010 Korea Gp Heavy rains Vettel heading for a easy Victory when his engine blows up on lap 46

2011 Hungary Finished 2nd

2011 German GP the only race he struggled with his car in the wet conditions yet finished 4th

2011 British GP Finished 2nd. Was leading but lost out because of the mistake made by his mechanics during his pit stop

2011 Canada GP, Finished 2nd. Made a mistake on the last lap to lose the lead to Button

2012 Malaysia was running 4th catching Hamilton near the end of the race before receiving a puncture while over taking Karthikeyan finished 11th

2012 Brazil crash on the first lap sends him to the back of the pack, Is the fastest guy rive in the wet to run reach upto 5th by the 16th lap. Hampered when the track is drying due to his car damage. An cautious over cautious extra pit stop by Redbull sends him out of the points but again fastest car when the track is wet towards the end to finish 6th and taking his 3rd WDC.

Now I get the gist of what you are trying to say. I dint imply Ricardo needs to win in a Torro Rosso to set him apart. what makes true champions is consistency and the ability to get noticed when driving for 2nd rung teams. For eg Nico Hulkenberg both last year and this year. I am sure he would have had a much better year in force India. When Redbull make the decision to Sign Ricardo they knew where he would stand comparted to Vettel after the tyre test. If they weren't impressed they would have opted for Kimi. Lets hope he gives Vettel a run for his money Cheers


Hmm as far as my knowledge no one has taken a bad car and walked away from everyone. If you watch the races last year Ferrari was a lot like this years Lotus. They dint use their tyres so much during the race and thus had less wear after a handful of laps. This enabled them to be faster in the race and they were able to overtake drivers who had qualified before them. Ferrari has a much stronger car this year where is Alonso now??? I mean he was raised to a Demi God status last year. How come he could be so competitive in a car that was 1.5 seconds off the pace last year and yet suffer in a car that is hardly 2/10th slower or in some races the fastest race car.

The car Vettel used in 2008 was not the fastest in Monza it was the Mclaren followed by Ferrari. His car was maybe the third or fouth fastest . Since you have pointed out that Redbull and Torro Rosso were similar cars and hence Webber, Coultard and Bourdais had the same machine under them. So how come Vettel was the only one able to extract that little bit extra out of the car? In fact he beat all 3 of them at the end of that year on points. One more thing he was actually selected for Redbull in July based partly on his performance in 2007 as the Italian Gp took place in September and the announcement came in July.

Don't underestimate Vettel in conditions in 2007 in Japan he was heading for a podium when he crashed into Webber because Hamilton was Weaving erratically behind the safety car. In China that same year he finished fourth on a wet circuit. In 2008 in Monaco again damp condition he started 18th and finished 5th Similarly in Brazil in 2008 he again finished 4th ahead of Hamilton while the next Redbull/Torro combination was in 10th. Last year in Brazil he had damaged his car and spun on the first lap. He was losing some down force due to his damaged diffuser yet on the damp track he was nearly 8/10th to a second faster than the race leaders. Remember this with car damage on a wet track where even Alonso ran off twice during the race. It was only when the tract dried that he began to suffer because he had to turn his engine down to prevent his cars diffuser from catching fire and his damaged diffuser was cause a loss of down force too which was even more important on a drying track. When it started raining again during the final stages he was again half a second faster than anyone else on the track. So your point about him not being able to extract the best of his car on a Wet track or otherwise is Invalid. There is a reason why Luca Di Montezemolo would stick his neck out and say that in the future he would rather have Vettel in Ferrari then Hamilton. Every one knows Hamilton can Match Alonso. So why replace a driver like Alonso when he retires with someone like Vettel, when Hamilton is around? Unless you been around long enough to know that Vettel could easy Match Hamilton and Alonso if not beat them. Personally I think he can match both of them and even beat them on consistency but hey what do I know or Luca Di Montezemolo. Have you noticed how Alonso and Hamilton have changed their tone this year from Vettel winning only because he has a fast car to Vettel driving so well. From where has this new found respect come? Perhaps they have come to a realization that there are two Redbulls and yet only one driver is consistently winning over the last 5 year. Or the deeper realization that their cars at some races were as good as the Redbull or even better but yet Vettel seems to maintaining his hold over the championship.


Look, Vettel is a good driver. I know that, and the world knows that. That's why he was quicker than a lot of other drivers in the same car.

HOWEVER, the STR in 2008 was better than the STR this year. It wasn't the best car in 2008, but it's comparatively better than the current one. That's all I am saying. In addition to that, the brakes ran hotter in the rain on that car which allowed for higher tire temps and thus better wet weather performance. Did you notice all of those stellar performances you listed were in the wet? Since Vettel has moved to RBR, he hasn't dominated a wet race in a similar fashion. He's great in the wet, but so are a few other drivers.

I know you're a big Vettel fan, and I am not slighting him in any way. He has definitely deserved his seat at RBR, and deserved all three championships. It's just that he had a car that was good in the rain in 2008, and used it flawlessly to score an excellent win. Ricciardo hasn't had that chance because his car isn't good in the wet or the dry. His seventh at Monza is surely justification of his hiring by RBR.


True or he could have finished fourth too he was nearly a second off Vettel during qualification even 7 hundreds of a second behind Heiki and a further 3 hundreds behind Webber. And yes you are right he did have the second fastest time because he had nothing to lose trying to set that time he was at the back even if he crashed it wouldn't have made any difference to him or the team so he went for him. While Vettel had to make sure he doent blow his lead by doing something stupid of trying of setting the fastest lap when he had a gap of 12 second and there was no one to challenge him. And he was no match for Vettel in qualification or during any of the practices so I doubt he would have made any impression in the race even if his engine hadn't stalled

Anyway your point is like me saying Vettel would have been on the podium in 2007 in the Japanese GP but crashed out behind the safety car due to Hamilton driving erratically behind it. Point is that Vettel retired and Luzzi finished last. My point is in the rain if Vettel is confident he is really confident. Last year in brazil after having body damage on a damp track Vettel was the fastest guy. When the track was drying he lost performance due to the fact that aerodynamic performance was lacking due to his cars damaged parts and because they needed to run the cars on lower revs to preserve the engine. But the moment it started raining he was supreme using more mechanical grip to set blistering laps


No, my point is that the Toro Rosso that year was a much better car than the Toro Rosso this year. Vettel did exceedingly well, but Bourdais also had some good performances. Bourdais didn't set the world on fire, but he showed that he had potential in that car. I'm not comparing drivers, I'm just pointing out that the car was good that year. He took a car that was good in the rain on low-drag circuits and drove a flawless race and won. He did NOT take a mediocre car and somehow walk away from everyone; he's already proven that while he's good in the rain, he's not head-and-shoulders above the likes of Hamilton and Alonso in the rain.

You got confused between my point and the evidence for my point. It's not a what-if scenario, it's that the car was very good, and Vettel made it work for him. It was basically the same car that Red Bull was using that year, when they used the loophole with "Red Bull Technologies" selling them the design to manufacture. Since they've had to use their own in-house design, as prescribed by the FIA, they haven't been as competitive as 2008.

So getting back to my original argument, you can't compare Vettel's performances in the latter half of 2008 with Ricciardo's performances in 2013. The STR3 was a very competitive car that was worthy of podiums, whereas the STR8 struggles for points on most circuits.


watch the 2008 Italian gp again, ask me i'll send you the link. The only one posting the fastest lap after fastest lap was Hamilton. Vettel was controlling the race from front and maintaining the gap as he is so found of doing at no time he needed to risk setting the fastest times. Hamilton was fastest as he should have been on the wets but wore his intermediates after his second pitstop to attack for victory. Kimi was the guy who posted the fastest lap. Get your facts right man and the Redbull werent the quickest cars, Vettel was only 6th fastest in 2nd practice and only qualified on poll because Hamilton and Kimi messed up their runs and were 15th and 14th. If Bourdais was setting the fastest lap after fastest lap he would have at least beaten one of the last runner. It wasnt only at Monza where he showed his class even in Monaco in very tricky conditions Vettel drove a stellar race to finish 5th from starting from 18th. FYI Vettel was already choosen to replace Coultard based on his performance even before he won in Monza. The news broke out in mid July around 17th or 18th and His win in Monza was on September 14th.


First, Bourdais was a lap down. Kind of hard to make up a whole lap on the entire field.

Yeah, Kimi had the fastest lap at the end, but I remember seeing Bourdais' name pop up several times near the end of the race as having turned fastest lap *at that point*. The fact is that while Vettel may have been controlling his pace, Bourdais was faster than everyone else on the track at that time. Also, Bourdais turned the second fastest lap of the race, behind Kimi. Had he started fourth, Toro Rosso may have ended up with a 1-2. It's not like Bourdais qualified 12th and slowly fell back to 18th by the end of the race due to a lack of pace.

That STR was a quick car, and killer in the rain (I heard it was partly due to them running higher brake temps, thus increasing tire temps).

Also, I remember Bourdais being fastest in Q1 or Q2 at Spa...

I wasn't saying that Vettel isn't talented, so you can calm down. I am merely saying that the STR was a damn good car that year, and they haven't has as good of a car since then.


Sorry but last year Perez won a couple of podiums with Sauber. And Sauber was a decent car but not the best. Also Hulkenber last year was impresive with Force India. Those cars were better than Toro Rosso but thre were not a big difference among them. And this season Toro Rosso is better car than last year. I was expecting more from both Ricciardo and Vergne


I have a hunch that last year's Sauber made Perez look better than he actually is. Just a hunch though. I doubt he carried the car.


Daniel will get the same chance and same equipment...when Vettel goes to Ferrari or Mercedes.


There's only one person this announcement can be for and that's Daniel Ricciardo (and his confidence). No one else can possibly believe it, and I doubt he does in his heart of hearts either. If it's supposed to be anything else, I would find my intelligence a little be insulted by Mr Horner.


This proves someone in the F1 paddock has a sense of humor.


RB certainly has the resources to provide equal cars to both the drivers.

It will be interesting to see the dynamics of the team and Vettel if he does start qualifying right up with Vettel.

I think it will be a few races for Daniel to get used to the car and things before he can start bothering the world champion. So the real question will come in 2015 most likely if Daniel is that good.


They're looking for a Webber not a Vettel. If they were looking at WCC surely Kimi is more proven than DR at bringing points home? I suspect Kimi's age and lack of commitment to 1 team over a reasonable period of time. I could see Ricciardo ending up feeling like Barrichello and Webber have done in the past. He may be friendly with SV for now but that could well change with time.


IMO it doesnt matter if Horner speaks the truth or not. Its ok either way as Vettel is as good as a 4 times WDC and if the likes of Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen get preferentual treatment (and they do) in their teams so should Vettel. In that case they have to support him more if they want the WDC title, otherwise he´d be disadvanteged against Alonso in particular.

On the other side Red Bull is, along with Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren, financially in the position to support both garages equally so there is no reason to give Ricciardo inferior parts or make him testdriver.

Anyway the big story next year will be the hounding of Hamilton by Vettel and Alonso in the second part of the season and if and who can overcome his points lead from the first 10 races.


It seems most believe that Mercedes will be the team to beat in 2014, or at least at first, from wenner's comments. Yeah, there was the 100hp advantage story, but really, it's just rumour mill stuff.

Will any engine manufacturer go harder on the fuel efficiency side of the equation, instead of power? Most would put Renault as the one most likely to go that route. Would anyone be able to complete a race with a lot less fuel than the 100kg limit?

I think it's fair to assume that RBR will still have the best aerodynamics package, but aero will be of less importance, relative to this season.

It will definitely give us all lots and lots of stuff to talk about next year.


I think you may be a bit off on your thinking.

First engines. Clearly there will be an ideal linear correlation between power and fuel use and how that weight savings impacts the lap time or cancels out lower power levels.

As for aero, drag reduction and optimizing down force will always play a role, and even the smallest aero efficiencies will reduce fuel use and oprimize further the available engine and "hybrid" power.

I think we are in for a big surprise in 2014 if we think it will be all engine and aero will play second fiddle. I think aero will be as important as ever, and perhaps even more so. These engines at 15K RPM aren't at all that high tech or that much different from each other. Did I mention I had a GSXR750 that red lined at 14k? Day in, day out, red light, green light, from goodmorning to goodnight for 23000km before I handed her off to the next abuser. All that is high tech about F1 now will be the energy recovery and secondary motors really...and of course aero. 😉


They're looking for a Webber not a Vettel. If they were looking at WCC surely Kimi is more proven than DR at bringing points home? I suspect Kimi's age and lack of commitment to 1 team over a reasonable period of time could be responsible for the outcome here. I could see Ricciardo ending up feeling like Barrichello and Webber have done in the past. He may be friendly with SV for now but that could well change with time.


Ricciardo signing for Red Bull = Advantage Mercedes and Ferrari(if they get rid of Felipe) in the 2014 WCC.


The same Mr Horner that recently denied Redbull had selected Ricciardo....to be trumped by Webber breaking the news the very same day....There's a pattern with everything Mr Horner says.


Its no surprise to me Ricciardo got the job. RB are a one man team and always have been - namely Adrian Newey. Vettel isn't in the same league as Hamilton,Alonso,Raikkonen,Rosberg - he is just marginally better than Webber. In order to protect their brand RB need to be seen more than a one man band and so have successfully( in part at least) promoted Vettel into the limelight. They were never going to risk Raikkonen on equal terms with Vettel but they had to be seen to consider it.


This is the rubbish I speak about!

Vettel is all Newey and Kimi isn't? Really?

I put to you that 1/2 of Kimi's success, and all you think he is, is down to Newey's McLaren - specifically MP4-20.


By your own admission Vettel is better than Rosberg. As far i remember Webber did beat Rosberg as team mates and Vettel has beaten Webber for 5 continious years. So if Vettel and Hamilton were to be teamed up they would be evenly matched with Vettel having the edge in races. Yes i agree with your point that he isnt in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso as 3 time WDC and maybe potentially 4 time WDC i think he is way above both of them. Btw last year Mclaren had the fastest car over most of the season at least 2/3 and even though Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton had their own share of bad lucks in the end it was only Alonso and Vettel that reached Brazil with a short at the WDC. And Ferrari might have not had single lap pace but it was like this years lotus, as the race progressed they dint suffer as much tyre degradation as the others. If you watch the races again you'll see that after a couple of laps Alonso can pick up the guys in front because they tend to struggle with grip


Webber beat Rosberg in his debut year and Luizzi beat Vettel in his debut year so it would come down to how you compare Webber and Luizzi. Vettel has beaten Webber but not totally convincingly - Webber has beaten vettel more than 25% of the time in qual and no one really doubts Vettel is shown favouritism within the team. As for WDC the car is far more important than the driver so the only true comparison has to one of teammates.


Luizzi outqualified him 4-3 and outfinished him 5-2


From where do you get your sources. No 1 and 69bhp said Vettel scored double points in less than half the races he compared and would have finished on the podium too if not for Hamiltons erratic Driving

This is a wiki summary of his season in 2007

"Vettel struggled for his first couple of races while cutting his teeth with his new team, but managed two impressive drives in his 5th and 6th drives for Toro Rosso, a team that was averaging a little worse than 14th place in the 2007 season before Vettel's arrival. In the rain-hit Japanese Grand Prix at Fuji, Vettel worked his way up to third, behind Lewis Hamilton and Red Bull Racing's Mark Webber, and seemed to be on course for not only his but also Toro Rosso's maiden podium finish. However, Vettel crashed into Webber under safety car conditions taking them both out of the race and prompting Webber to say to ITV reporter Louise Goodman "It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – you do a good job and then they fuck it all up." Webber also specifically criticized Lewis Hamilton's erratic behaviour in contributing to the accident, describing his antics behind the safety car as 'shit'."[22][23] Vettel was initially punished with a ten-place grid penalty for the following race, but this was lifted after a spectator video on YouTube showed the incident may have been caused by Hamilton's behaviour behind the safety car.[24] Vettel bounced back to finish a career-best fourth a week later at the Chinese Grand Prix having started 17th on the grid while in mixed conditions. He collected five championship points, making it both his and Toro Rosso's best race result."


He has beaten Webber convincingly over 5 years both in qualification and in the race more convincingly than Hamilton beating Button compare for yourself





in what way did Liuzzi beat Vettel in his debut year? Vettel scored twice the points of Liuzzi despite only driving for half the season.


Please enlighten me on how Rosberg, a guy who has won 3 races in 139 starts is better than a 3x WDC?


Riccardo is the new Massa.

Likeable character with a big smile.

Good personality.

If u gonna play in a crocodile pond, don´t throw in deers.

I miss Senna, Prost (hell, even Schumacher) and the old garde with the raw determination to win at any price. Not todays boy school parade.


Do you think the likes of Prost or Schumacher would have won their titles with out having the quickest car in the field? Im sure if Michael was in Vettels car he too could win a title. Thinking that its just Seb is nieve.


Yes I know that . However Rosberg doesn't have the skills to utilise a quick car . Vettel does.


It's clear. Read again.


If Rosberg was that good he'd have moved to better team earlier in his career. He's good but not that good.


Your only as good as what is underneath you. Vettel has only been better than Webber and Bourdais and worse than Luizzi in debut year. As JA has stated in his review Monza is a perculiar track and the fact Bourdais qualified 4th in 2008 and it rained means you can get strange results. At least Rosberg has proven himself against Schumacher and is a test for Hamilton regarded even by Alonso as the quickest qualifier on the grid.


I believer what Horner says. Webber was given equal opportunity and the same equipment. But Seb did a better job. It is up to Ricciardo to get the maximum from what is available to him.


Wow, a sensible post! Finally someone else gets it.

If I were a '+1' guy I'd give you a +1 😉


It will be interesting how close Ricky is to Vettel by midseason next year. Any consensus in the paddock on that James?


I'll give you my consensus - DR is the number 2 driver so Vettel will be streets ahead points wise . I can also predict that Daniel will have to retire from at least one race because of problems with his Energy Recovery System.


People seem to forget what Vetel managed when he drove for Toro Rosso. Does pole and win in Monza ring any bells? Like him or not (which I don't very much) he has proved time and again how good he is. Webber has had equal equipment but hasn't made it work for him as well as Vetel. I personaly believe Webbers bad starts is down to either an engineer or mechanic not doin a good enough job preparing the car , Conspiracy theorys make no sense. Its not the fairest sport but in a two car team one driver will always have the edge over the other.




Thanks Horner!

Howls,howls of derisive laughter.


Now that the pressure is off for Ricciardo let's see how he fares for the rest of 2013.

My guess is that he'll leave Toro Rosso as a beaten man.

42 grand prix and best place has been 7th.

Vergne has 31 grand prix under his belt with best place finished 6th.

I still have not seen enough to convince me that this guy is special apart from being quick over one lap..

Jarno Trulli was also fast over a single lap.


You do realise Ricciardo's extra races were for HRT so they have driven the exact same number or races for Torro Rosso. Ricciardo has finished in the top 10 on 10 occasions, JEV has finished in the top 10 on 6 occasions. You may not be convinced but given RBR have all his data at their disposal and have seen his pace and consistency at the silverstone test in the RBR then I am sure they have more of an idea of what they're getting than you do.


The timing of the announcement of Ricciardo's appointment was very odd, around 20:30 UK time when most of the F1 world were attending the premiere of Rush, and football transfers were getting all of the headlines.

It's the sort of timing a company or government uses when they are forced to release bad news and want to limit the damage.

Ricciardo's announcement has the hallmarks of a reluctant appointment.

I'm sure Ricciardo would get the same equipment in a normal season, but the changes for next year will mean Vettel will get priority if there are urgent updates required, including power plants.

I'm sure Webber will let Ricciardo know what to expect, if he doesn't know already.


Great point re timing.


Horner: "Ricciardo will get same opportunities as Vettel at Red Bull."

Sure he won't, Christian!

As we saw with Webber, there's "equal opportunities" for the other driver at Red Bull...until the other driver looks like he might actually beat Vettel over a season.

At which point Red Bull revert to a clear no.1/no.2 set-up. In Vettel's favour, of course.


Same as team Alonso, or team Raikkonen. Ask Massa and Grosjean. TBH I don't think Rosberg is on equal footing either.

So what's the point? That F1 teams support the better, faster and more complete driver to enhance their chances?

Congratulations, you are a super sleuth.

Why should Vettel be treated any differently from current and past champions. They build teams around them. This is not new. Fangio, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso... They all did it.

Move on.


just why anyone would believe a word of what horner says is beyond me. he has proved, over time, to be weak and ineffectual. this was born out in the sepang incident.

his lack of authority and spine showed when vettel literally gave him the finger. that was one of the lowest actions i have ever seen perpetrated on a team driver. intra team sanctions would have redressed the situation somewhat but it is my bet that they were never ever considered. horner is, IMO, not be trusted in any way.

the only persons in the RB team that i would consider worthy are, newey, and of course DM who showed a vast amount of loyalty to mark webber and that was, lest we forget, returned by webber.

it is obvious that some in the RB team are more equal than others. DR will have his time cut out just staying out of the politics. i am convinced that DR has the potential to become an excellent F1 driver in the future, the question remains though....will he be given the opportunity ?


I really fail to see the logic of Vettel being 2nd grade driver by many comments here. True is that he is probably in best car developed for him, but why would RBR do that if he is so poor? All the so claimed "best" drivers named Alo, Ham, Rai are lining up to drive for them. I doubt they ask more money and for sure someone like Alonso would bring equal sponsors as Vettel does. Even if he is Markos best friend a whole business would not be sacrificed for 2nd class driver to make it happen. I also don't understand why it seems that basically any team would welcome such a bad driver as Vettel into their teams. If they can't win with the first class ones then why would they damage themselves with lower grade driver. If Webber would have taken the upper hand in the early days of the pairing he would be the number one and get the luxury of getting best parts and development behind him. I am a Finn and would have love to see if Rai could have challenged Vettel.

But hey this is just my logic and maybe there is no logic in the F1 and I am totally wrong and Vettel indeed is not so good as his record shows.


I'm not saying Vettel is terrible - he is the best driver RB has produced and that is the point. They want a WC that has come through their ranks so not Webber,Raikkonen,Alonso,Hamilton etc.


Then why did they hang on to Webber so long? There were plenty RB academy drivers around which are sexier in the eyes of media than Webber who would not obey quietly. I would think money is always the key in F1. So you make sure you win because that gives you power to manipulate and brings back the investment. Luckily Mr. Mateschitz had patience, passion and big pockets to make RBR great. Now he rules with Ferrari with loudest voice on issues. So again Vettel is pawn in the puzzle and if he doesn't deliver someone else will come. So far he is doing better job than anyone else in the history of F1 and at the time the field is pretty close compared Schumacher domination years. His CV is awesome looking from almost any category he has done. I would say he was born with steering wheel in his hand. Yet again stats can lie and everyone just made it for him because he is so nice. No first class talent needed. Please give him credit. I do while I wish Kimi would have car in the same level and potentially stop the boredom of one man show.


+1. But fans will be fans 😉 I see it as 2009 was the season of reckoning, of which Webber lost out, but only slightly in realistic terms. I'm sure final results were used, but not exclusively. There were other indicators, such as consistency, that everyone would be able to see more clearly if they were isolated for all to observe... Anyway, the die was cast then for the pecking order, and Mark simply decided that (quite rightly) stuff that, I'll push to the nth degree to the very ounce of my capability. And ultimately, it's what the team needed him to do. I suspect there have been some shenanigans within the team from certain sources, but unless they out themselves and admit it, it's purely what we observe from the outside without all the info available. I'll even dare say some of it may have been fairly innocuous stuff to fire Mark up for performance, but that may be giving the likes of Christian and Helmut too much credit in the use of practical psychology 😀



What size is Dan in comparison to Vettel? I know Webber is a bit taller than the average driver and that's always given him "packaging" issues... Just hope DR doesn't have to make the same compromises.


Webber height = 1.85m mass = 72 to 75 kg

Ricciardo height = 1.78m mass = 66 to 71 kg

Vettel height = 1.76m mass = 58 to 62 kg

When Red Bull say the drivers have identical equipment that is plain wrong. Since I think 2009 the total weight of the car and driver is required to be 640 kg due to the addition of KERS. Then how can each car be identical. Vettel would always have more ballast to better distrubute within the car.

No figures have been forthcoming from the teams that I can find that could quantify the lap time difference of 12 to 15 kg of ballast compared to a heavier driver.


THIS! Finally someone gets it! Mark would also have been also had the metal in his legs in 2009 from his accident which would have made him weigh a little bit more, and when KERS was introduced it took more away from the ballast he could place on the car's floor.

I also suspect that the Pirelli's affected Mark too: his size and strength would mean he could be a more physical driver, which worked on Michelin and Bridgestone. When you have to mind your P's in the current format to stretch your stints it also killed part of Mark's advantage.


thanks James.. it's something I've been meaning to find out for a while.

Graham. That's exactly the point I have been thinking about... I was there for Webber's first GP in the Minardi at Albert Park. Viewing from the last corner that year. All the big teams had traction control etc. Mark was really on it in thru there. Would love to see telemetry or figures just to know if he really was good or if I imagined it!


Well, an interesting question at last ( sorry, just getting tired of all the biased arguments on this site)Yes, Webber has always had a height/weight disadvantage over other drivers. The value of the ability to move ballast around the car is often overlooked. Given that Webber has been consistantly about .03 sec a lap off Vettel, I wonder how much of this is down to his size. Interesting to see DR is about the same size as Vettel.


Similar height, maybe a tad taller, little bit more chunky


So, tougher workouts ahead! From chunky to slim in few months.


@James Allen, maybe you have a better idea given you see them around the paddock but according to Ricciardos official website he is 180cm (5cm shorter than mark) and 70kg (5kg lighter than mark)


Should have ended the above statement with - so it at least gives the team some room to play with in terms of ballast ect. in comparison to mark.


Chunky?! Lol.

He's probably running a 5-7% body fat ratio, meaning all his abs are easily showing.

Maybe calling someone chunky has different connotations in different countries.


Good luck to Daniel, i hope he really does well and does get 'equal tratment'. Of course he wont. Poor guy


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Horner is a very good comedian! LOL

Muitli 12, you copy Ricky? Multi 12...


I have a question about Vettel's 2008 Toro Rosso. The team was eventually sold because customer cars were outlawed. Does this mean that Vettel had a car comparable to the Red Bull when he won at Monza?


even if the Toro Rosso was comparable to the Red Bull in 2008, that's not saying much - the Red Bull that year wasn't much of a car. Just look at DC's and Webber's results.


Very similar from all reports, but different engine.


Yes and No - it was Adrian Newey designed. Obviously the STR ran a ferrari as opposed to a renault. So some comparable aspects and some completely different.


No one will ever get equal treatment at Team Vettel...


Or team Alonso, or team Raikkonen. Ask Massa and Grosjean. TBH I don't think Rosberg us on equal footing either.

So what's the point? That F1 teams support the better, faster and more complete driver to enhance their chances?

Congratulations, you are a super sleuth.


So I guess that MW should be in his ear telling him all the stunts that SV's side of the garage will try to pull. Hopefully Daniel can put his foot down to some of this stuff. For sure we will see this repeated like it was with MW.


Dan is fast enough to score points and cheap enough for more cash towards the cars. Thats all RB want. They have their No1.


Seems all standard copperplate information release from CH. Nothing new there. We've seen it/heard it all before. There are always compromises in the design of the car that will lean towards one driver or another, which is the achilles heel, if you like, of Webber's results without the 'blips' - a 'problem I've had all my racing life' or some words to near affect. Even Marko admitted the dynamic had worked well - a case of Mark being so self-motivated and aggressive and expectant, and Seb feeding of his own desire to beat Mark (or whomever his teammeate is for that matter - it's not Mark-specific) at every conceivable post he can. That's resulted in 3 WDC/WCC's. With Daniel coming in pretty much a similar role is expected - or in so much as he is to push Seb, thus getting performances out of Seb (and himself) that warrant a 5th (most likely adding to a 4th) WDC/WCC. Unless Dan pulls something seriously hot out the fire and starts thrashing Seb, his role is to be good at giving his engineers feedback towards development and occupy the podium more often than not. And smile a lot... And if/when Seb can't fight for a victory, then Dan is to be in position to take it from the opposition. Doing all that advertises his abilities to future employers should the #1 car not be his anytime soon... There a few 'ageing' seats out there right now...


James, put this to bed. What are your thoughts, really?

Surely Webber was given equal equipment in his time at Redbull (Silverstone '10 excepted) and from that point of view was treated equally. From a psychological viewpoint, he most certainly was not treated equally and no doubt there's no contract clause that covered that.

Is that about right?


trent, your post should have stopped after the first sentence. is that about right?


I really can't understand why RB couldn't announce Ric on the weekend in Monza. Seems to me like they were a touch embarrassed that in spite having a lot of "interesting" options, they had to settle on Dan.

James, I know you are happy that a young talented driver has been given the opportunity to drive for the champion team, but in all seriousness... wouldn't a Seb-Kimi partnership would have made a lot more sense for the monumental regulatory shakeup that's coming up in 2014 ? I mean, not only would they have had the best driver line-up, but also consistency and an enhanced fan base and possibly new sponsors (owing to Kimi's association)...


Possibly but there are internal pressures to see a driver progress from the development programme and that won out here


Everyone knows RIC is not someone who can challenge VET, it's disappointing for spectators that he got the drive, and the best thing Horner could have said would have been 'we don't know how bad Daniel will be, but we'll see'.


Everyone knows? Well, I didn't know that.

If I remember correctly, in 2010 Ricciardo set a faster time on Vettel's car at the young drivers test (or whatever they called it) in Abu Dhabi. I am sure there will be a few surprises next year.


I'm sure Horner meant to say he "will get the same equipment and opportunities as" Webber.


Can't help but feel Dan will have to consistently out qualify

Seb next season to have anywhere near the right for equal status.

It's going to make or break his career, I see 3 possibilities:

1)be the next big thing

2)another Rubens / DC / Webber

3)another kovalainen


Incredible amount of cynicism here on this subject.

RBR are smart operators, and a smart operator would realise drivers don't last forever and Sebastian will one day want to add to his titles in a Ferrari.(Eagerly awaiting that scoop James).

It beggars belief that RBR wouldn't want Ricciardo to be quicker than Vettel and give him every opportunuty to maximise his and their cars potential.

This is a completely different dynamic than the Seb/Web partnership.

I believe Marko's main objective was achieved in 2010, insofar as the RB young driver programme was vidicated when the graduate beat the ringer(Webber).

Vettel then consolidated his position in the team by on track humiliation of his team-mate the following season. Job done. Everything else is just cream.

2014 may be very different for Vettel, especially is Ricciardo can consistently match his speed.

Vettel's greatest strength is nailing arguably the two most important laps over the weekend..Pole and the first lap of the race.

If Daniel can match that, then the pendulum will swing his way pretty quickly.


How stupid does Horner actually think we are ?

He'd be better off showing some integrity and tell the truth.

"Dan has got good point scoring potential from the data available to us and is the least likely available candidate to threaten Vettel."

He's not a very good [mod], as also evidenced when he tried to rubbish Mark's claims that the second driver deal was sorted.

I can only imagine if Dan starts getting good his KERS will suddenly develop problems.

Dan's a good guy and I wish him well, but all they want is a point scorer to try and keep McLaren and Merc further back.

I only hope Dan is as straight as Mark when it comes to interviews and politics.


Ricciardo will be given same opportunity as Vettel at Red Bull.

Yep heard that one before!


Regarding equal equipment. If you had 2 condoms and one had a pin hole in it. Could you tell the difference? Not one person on this page knows what's under them engine covers. I honestly doubt they are the same due to physical packaging restraints.

One thing we all do know is that Dan will most likely end up with the condom with the hole in it...


I would have rather seen Kimi go to Redbull, only because Kimi's massive fan based really would have pressured the Vettel bias within the team.

Kimi certainly wouldn't have kept his mouth shut if he felt the team was favouring Vettel (Just as Webber has been quite vocal about).

I feel RedBull have picked Ricciardo purely to continue the Vettel bias.

If RIC can't keep pace with Vettel due to any team bias then they can easily blame his youth or inexperience, like I mentioned above that would not be possible with Kimi & the bias would gave been ultimately revealed or removed.

Wish Ricciardo all the best, hope RBR don't kill his F1 career.

Tornillo Amarillo

Yes, Ricciardo has the same opportunity to be a star like Vettel... If that doesn't occur from the first race, well, he will be number 2.


Seems to me Mr Horner has stated the obvious, which he would have cleared with Marko first, our Mr Horner has form, that being spineless, weak and easily intimidated. I agree Vettel is quicker,better, than Webber but when someone agrees to a deal then renegs well.... As an Aussie I was humiliated by Marks acceptance of the situation, personally I would have decked Vettel on the podium, then gone looking for Horner.

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