F1 Winter Break
Vettel says ignoring team orders was “indirectly” paying Webber back
Scuderia Ferrari
Posted By: James Allen  |  11 Apr 2013   |  12:09 pm GMT  |  427 comments

Reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel says Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber did not “deserve” to win the Malaysian Grand Prix and that his decision to ignore team orders was “indirectly” paying Webber back for a lack of support in the past.

Webber, 36, was leading Vettel, 25, last time out in Sepang when the team ordered both drivers to hold position after the final pit stops. However, Vettel chose to ignore the order and past his team-mate with 13 laps to go to take victory.

Vettel was quoted on Wednesday as saying he will never apologise for winning but it’s important to remember that the German did apologise to Webber several times in the post-race conferences in Sepang.

However, the German did suggest that he was motivated by a lack of support from his Australian team-mate in the past. He said: “I never had support from his side. I have a lot of support from the team and think they are supporting both of us the same way.

“I respect Mark as a racing driver but there was more than one occasion in the past when he could have helped the team and he didn’t.”

The German spent 20 minutes answering questions from the media and when asked if he was paying Webber back for not supporting him in the title-deciding race in Brazil last year: “Probably you could say indirectly so.”

When asked whether he would ignore team orders again, Vettel replied: “I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same.

“Had I understood [the coded Multi 21 message] and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second. I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing. He didn’t deserve it.

“There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

The Sepang incident has been dealt with internally with Vettel saying that he had not been punished.

He said: “I did speak up and apologise. Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen? We dealt with it internally. I did apologise to the team as soon as I could, the whole team, not just the people working here.”

There was speculation about Webber’s future in the sport after the incident in Malaysia, but the Australian, who is on a one-year rolling deal, said he will see out the season and even hinted at continuing on in 2014.

Webber said: “I am definitely keen to finish the season. Obviously a lot of people were questioning that, but that wasn’t something that was in my mind. I am keen to race this year and put forward a very strong campaign and challenge for more race wins.

“Come the summer, I will talk to [Red Bull team owner] Dietrich [Mateschitz] and go from there. If I am driving well and performances are good then we will make some decisions for the future.”

And on the situation in the team, Webber, who is sporting a new-look short haircut in China, said: “Procedularly within the team everything is fine.

“For me it’s not an unusual situation and I’m looking forward to racing here this weekend and getting on with it. When you’re at the front in Formula 1 there’s always stuff going down, so it just depends on how much is going down that you’ve got to manage.”

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Asked if he would do the same again, Vettel replied: "I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same.

"Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second... I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing.

"He didn't deserve it.

"There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time."


Obviously these types of situations have been discussed inside the team. Both of the drivers were given the order and Sebastian went ahead and broke the agreement. Now he is saying he is a racer and he deserved the win? What an embarrassing comment. As I said before, these things have a tendency of sorting themselves out in a very ugly way - think Senna and Prost or Gilles Villeneuve and Didier Pironi.

If the team had any self respect they would "stick it to" Sebastian by making an innocuous error resulting in a little DNF.


Seb is at the top and has brought home 3 WDCs in a row. It is not surprising that he thinks he created the sun, the earth and the moon. This incident and his contradictory behavior clearly show his inner drive and complete focus on himself. He has some reason to mention the indirect payback. Webber is not a complete innocent.

Seb's handlers clearly grabed him and are now pushing the line that, while deplorable from sportsmanship standpoint, these guys are in a big dollar war zone and he needs to stand up for himself rather than take endless heat. Bad PR strategy on his part to mix messages. His recent comments only throw salt on wounds and add to image of dysfunction at RB. instead of the index finger, Seb now flipping the bird and trying to show his one chest hair.

I despise him for this incident, but as others have said, it is too early to manage a race ten laps out. Forget about worsening relationship spin. It has always been chilly between them. Seb's needy, immature, but lightning fast. Mark is a man and doesn't match up to boy wonder.

It's Seb's team and the rest are begrudgingly happy to spin ithe PR machine as best as possible while depositing checks and stacking up trophies. Positioning yourself as hell bent on winning is not the worst team image even if it plays out in a way that makes everyone hold their nose. Winning is ugly sometimes.


Honestly why did he even bring this back up again?
Everyone had already picked a side - irrespective of his obviously half-arsed apology. Now he just goes and stirs the pot more? Is he trying to fire up his team? Marks team? highlight cracks for the others to exploit?
I know everyone wants good racing and champions but surly you be an aggressive driver without being a total '[mod]?
And to think i wanted him to win last year


We all know he appreciates British humour- it's clearly a topical Thatcher tribute!


This guy is a shocking hypocrite, I've gone from not supporting this guy to actively disliking him on a personal level. Here is a guy who has had all the breaks possible in F1, owes 90% of his world championship success to A Newey and basically has now admitted that he lied when he apologised after the last race.

This guy is a role model for no-one - I'd hate my kids to grow up to be anything like him - no amount of success excuses the arrogance and outright crappiness of this guys attitude!


I don't think Seb is morally perfect but the angst and exaggerated reactions towards him and this incident are really over the top


What Wayne said. At the time it was all a bit OTT but he's made himself sound like a right p***k here.


It might have been over the top when he did what he did in the race... But not now surely? The guy apologised, was told he was wrong by his employer and now he goes and says he might do it again? Anyone else would be unemployed in the morning. Celebs should not get away with acting like they are above the morals of other people mate.


Class and sportsmanship are things in short enough supply in today's world. When Stirling Moss objected to Mike Hawthorne's DQ for getting a push start during a GP and Hawthorne was subsequently allowed to keep the points he earned, Moss lost the WDC by ONE point that year as a result of being an up front guy.

The Germans in this sport would do well to understand and respect the rest of the world for a change. Vettle's chosen role model may have somthing to do with it. For example, running into Damon Hill in an attempt to "win" and parking the car on course during qualification at Monaco come to mind - at least the FIA dealt with both of those incidents even if the "teams" didn't. [mod]


The Germans in this sport would do well to understand and respect the rest of the world for a change.

How did this go thru moderation? and what was deletet?

I have a question Mr Allen you write here befor that senna ans schumachen never disobey teamorder. What is with silverstone 94. The team told him to come in.didn`t they? and he steyed out .


When did the FIA deal with Schumacher driving into/across Damon Hill???

Last time I looked he was still credited with the WDC from that year.


Germans like Nico Rosberg? Sure Schumacher and Vettel are morally questionable individuals, but lets not generalise..


Interesting comment...there is something in it...


This "role model for kids" has started sounding like a broken record now Wayne. Sports personalities are cut from a different mould and expecting them to fall-in-line and play the correct "moral" role model is just very naive.

And I will go out on a limb and say this - No one of us has always done the right thing and to expect this from others is double-standards.


With this behaviour you won't be able to sell anything. Thats where actual money of a celebrity lies. Roger Federer a classic example. Button, Rosberg in F1. Not may dislike them


Sorry Ravi, you're raving a bit!

If you're in the public eye you need to behave correctly, present yourself well and observe certain accepted standards otherwise the millions of critics around the world will develope a poor/bad opinion of you. Like many of us have of Vettel!



Ditto my friend...Mike Schumacher all over again.

Christopher Cave

Good point! I recall a public apology MS was forced to make shortly after joining Ferrari and he swore he would never do it again after the media had a field day with it.

It's all about public image and Vettel is trying to repair his after having been perceived as weak following his apologies in Malaysia.

Not good for his long term career interests in a dog-eat-dog sport like F1. His managers, etc. will know from Senna's continued popularity that F1 fans can forgive a driver who behaves poorly because their desire to win is so great.

Whether it is genuine in Vettel's case I'm not so sure. I believe we saw his true colours in Malaysia and there's no shame in that for mine.


My thoughts exactly Russ,bash ,crash, cheat, anyway to win.Selfish arrogance seems to be part of their make up.Oh for the days of Fangio, Moss and Brabham.


Well said Seb!

Why should Seb sacrifice the change of a victory to gift a win to a team mate that almost cost him the 2012 world championship? Mark in no way deserved such a gift.

Seb was right to do what he did. I applaud that decision and also the statement he made today.

It was good to see Seb be brutally honest for once. But unfortunately he'll get a lot of bashing in the media for it. The saddest thing is that Webber only gets praise for being brutally honest like this. Talk about double standards.



The only reason that Vettel was in a position to overtake Webber was because he was allowed to pit before Webber.

The driver who is ahead on the track is given priority in his choice of when to pit.

Vettel was allowed to pit ahead of Webber to keep him ahead of Hamilton not to give him the chance to overtake Webber.

If the team had known what he would do they would not have pitted him before Webber.

Why is it that the apologists for Vettel cannot see what he has done by such treachery.


Perhaps because.... the people to whom he owes his career asked him to? Because if Webber would've been as ruthless as Seb was, he would've run him off in that corner, as he was entitled to? That's what the team was trying to avoid, and they were clearly right in anticipating it. Vettel's lucky that Mark was a gentleman. Mark is unlucky that his team-mate was a douchebag.


You know what I am just wondering about now?

I wonder if RBR paid Webber the P1 $ bonus that surely goes with a win in his contract? If he followed Team orders...

Christopher Cave



That's a fine point you've made there. I would love to know!


I don't think he would. Webber isn't motivated by Money, if he was he wouldn't be living in England paying taxes, he would be in a Tax Haven along with every other driver on the grid.

Webber did ignore a team order at Silverstone in 2011 and then when Christain told him to back off he did.


that's a good point Sebee. Maybe they 'split the difference'???..maybe tossed a coin??...arm wrestle anyone?


Yes but this is TEAM sport. If your boss says to you, you must do this, you do it, not disobey it and then say, well i will do it again.


Anybody heard what was actually said over the radio? This is just excerpts, but it's not really RedBull telling Vettel not to pass Webber.



....so why did he apologise to Webber after the race?


His immaturity showed in the hours after the Malaysian Grand Prix. If he had stood up for himself and said, "Im here to race" at that moment, he would have seemed more legend like.

But he went ahead and apologised to Webber and told everyone that he though it was Webber's win and he misunderstood the instruction.

Now he has had some time to get instructions about how he should have reacted and he is now changing tack.

Id love to see Webber stick it to him this year though.

Christopher Cave

I believe Vettel is genuinely a decent person who took no joy from upsetting Webber and the remorse was genuine.

What we are seeing now is likely the result of many meetings with his Public Relations (PR) team to try to 'repair' his weak image after the apologies he gave in Malaysia.

Classic PR politics at play here.

Flying Scotsman

Was it because Newey told him he was currently the most hated man in the world and he should apologise?


How about top ten?


I think there's a fella in North Korea who is higher up the list of global bad boys than a racing driver..


for pr purposes.


Media pressure. It's different in this day and age.

But in my view, it was showing weakness. He shouldn't have done it.


And why did he apologise to the whole team and then say he'd do it again at the earliest opportunity?

The team have totally lost control of this ego. Horner said it was wrong - VET says he'll do it again?

Christopher Cave

At the end of the day Vettel will do what is in his best long term career interests and his Public Relations team have clearly decided showing weakness ie. apologising is not the course they want him to take so now we see Vettel on the offensive to repair his image.

Bring Back Murray

Horner firstly said Seb was wrong and has now has said that team orders no-longer exist. It seems like the team have lost control of their team manager!


It seems like he is a guy who can mold several diffent positions into a single sentence.

Many would call such, dishonesty, or disloyalty, or backstabbing.


Maybe a career in politics for him post f1!

Bring Back Murray

That's one almighty U-turn from 3 weeks ago!

Christopher Cave

Absolutely, the first reaction is generally the most accurate and what we saw was somebody who Ibelieve was genuinely ashamed of their actions.

What we are hearing now is what his public relations team have decided is the best course of action to repair his image after having been perceived as weak following his apologies to Webber and the Red Bull Racing team.




Fair enough. Although we can ask which is worse: To do something like that and apologize (like Vettel did), or do something like that and not apologize (like Webber)?

Not taking sides. Just asking.


There was no agreement before the race. Do you see the difference or not? Would do the same, as Vettel did?


So, Vettel has said he would do the same again - and I think this attitude will cost him dearly on many fronts such as prospective teams he may want to drive for[or should I say with ], sponsors, team personnel and last but not least the fans.

I for one have lost a great deal of respect for this boy, and would never buy anything associated with him.

Marko has said he never wanted to 'diss' Webber before the season - so why has he taken so long to say so?

I hope that , for whatever reason he does not win any more Championships.

Winning does not make you a Champion.


Marko never 'dissed' Mark at all. He stated opinions that I think even Mark would agree with:

"It seems to me that Webber has on average two races per year where he is unbeatable, but he can't maintain this form throughout the year, And as soon as his prospects start to look good in the world championship, he has a little trouble with the pressure that this creates. In comparison with Seb [Vettel's] rising form, it seems to me that Mark's form somehow flattens out. Then, if some technical mishap occurs, like with the alternator for example, he falls relatively easily into a downward spiral. No driver remains unaffected by this, because the tension is palpable. In 2010, it was particularly extreme. Webber headed into the final race with better chances than Vettel, and he probably carried the disappointment of his defeat into the 2011 season, which is so easy to understand."

Helmut is trying to explain, in his opinion, possible reasons why Mark hasn't come out on top vs Seb in the past 4 years. Nowhere does he say that Mark is awful, or can't win, or that he doesn't have what it takes. He mentions that he feels Mark struggles with pressure a bit, and that is as clear as day if you've followed his title campaigns. Mark was so close to a title in 2010, you wouldn't blame the guy for carrying a bit of that dissapointment into 2011.

It's the media and fans which jump on comments like this and twist them into the conclusion that "Marko is dissing Mark". I get the feeling that many fans don't read the actual comments, and only read the edited down versions that the media present in their articles. Not blaming the fans for that, but a little research can usually come up with the full extended quotes that provide vital context which the edited down stuff simply doesn't have.

Seb struggled to answer the "Would you do it all the same way again" question, btw. He didn't come right out and say "Yes" emphatically. He said it was very difficult to say. If you watch the video of the interview, you can see even more clearly how he's trying to put thought into his answer. He's stuggling because he didn't agree with the team's decision to invoke team orders AT THAT TIME. He's said repeatedly that he heard it, but didn't UNDERSTAND it. (an opinion I agree with...there's a time and place for team orders, and it certainly isn't in the 2nd race of the season, and it certainly isn't when you've told your driver through the entire race to 'just be patient'... giving him the impression that he'd have his chance to race at the end... I, for one, wouldn't understand that order either). Seb never says he will NEVER follow team orders. But the media twists & edits the quote down to make Seb out to be an evil, vindictive driver, rubbing his hands together & plotting his next chance to defy team orders.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the fact that we've finally got another set of teammates with some real conflict between them. But to make either of these guys out to be the 'bad guy' is wrong. You have got to understand fully their motivation and reasons for their actions, and not put them in these personality extremes.


Vettel has now said [ knowing what the team orders were ] that he would do the same again, and that Webber didn't deserve the win - so now he considers he's in charge of who wins !

I don't think he knows what he's talking about, much like Hamilton a few years ago with all his gangsta rap friends around him.

Maybe Vettel needs a period of not winning much to learn some humility and respect.

Then, maybe he will stop thinking everyone will believe the nonsense he comes out with.


If I were Webber, I would have a quiet word with Vettel to tell him if he tries it again he'll be run off the track or taken out of the race. Might make him think twice about it.


So sad this happened at a time when I was starting to warm-up towards him.


The boy just paves the ground for his Ferrari drive for 2016 onwards after Alonso retires. That's where all those drivers demanding no 1 status go. Simple as that.


Hello, we have a winner!

Hey, James should inquire with AW as to Scuderia's retirement plan....


Great post, totally agree with your sentiment. No more Redbull for me.


And I bet RB sales in Oz declines too!



Too funny!

Red-bull-n-tonic please.


I bet you it doesn't.


"I think this attitude will cost him dearly on many fronts such as prospective teams he may want to drive for"

I meanwhile think that every team manager on the grid would like to have Vettel, because he's further demonstrated he'll use all legal means avaliable to win. For me the only other guy who does that is Alonso. That's Alonso who blocked his teammate (in revenge) in Hungary 2007 qualifying, Alonso who was willing to 'take it' to McLaren over documents they had about the Ferrari, Alonso who is happy to overtake his team mate on the pitlane entry, Alonso who calls for his team mate to be moved out of his way, some would stick something in their about the Piquet crash too (I'll not as it's unproven)...

And that's why Alonso and Vettel are the two best on the grid. They're selfish, greedy and want to win at all costs, but those are the attributes that set them apart from other drivers in F1 and make them the best, and that is why Vettel would get a drive at any team in F1 in my opinion.


If I was a team manager I would rather have Adrian Newey.


Newey is no good without a top driver though. If Neweys cars were so good then Webber would always follow Vettel home, he doesn't. Heck, Mark Webber hasn't ever finished 2nd in the drivers championship, his best result is third.

Webber isn't a slouch, he's faster than 85% of the guys on the grid. So ask yourself why he's not right there. The team want him to be there, because it's worth $$s to them!



Vettel knows exactly how important it was to do this for his future career, smart boy, well played


I agree with your sentiments 100%. But I don't think that SV's attitude will hinder his Ferrari prospects. They favour the 'lead driver' system. Only the future will tell!!


You may be right - but at Ferrari you know you are driving for them, and team 'orders' are just that, and that really was the point I was trying to make as regarding prospective teams, and I also don't think he would get away so lightly if he did the same thing at Ferrari ?


Couldn't agree more, Ferrari would come down on him like a Ton of bricks. Any team that would see off Prost would show the door to anyone that didn't respect the team. I wasn't trying to contradict you, just mentioning that I think he'd fit in well there....as long as FA wasn't there!!!


Eh... Alonso stopping Hamilton in the pits 2007... I don't think it will be a major factor.

When you sign the best drivers you know they're in it to win it. You can only expect a true nr 2 driver to go for such a team order so early in the season. Rosberg is a huge exception, but he hasn't had a stellar record at Mercedes yet so I think he still feels he needs to play nice.

If the same order was given to Webber he would have been furious!


I think you'll find Alonso did that because Hamilton blocked Alonso and broke an agreement to let Alonso have a clear quali run. Hamilton was the guilty party, Alonso was just equaling the score.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers what happened in Hungary!


F1 is supposed to be a sport, so where does this win at all costs end ? maybe with the equivalent of diving in football ? I guess there are even people out there that condone Lance Armstrong for what he did.


No indeed, getting the most points in any given year does.


-3. This is F1. He's fast. He'll never be out of a drive. Simple.

This over the top dramatization of what he did by know-it-all people proclaiming him morally bankrupt is really getting tiresome. I'm not sure how any sane person can actually take these comments seriously.


Oh my God this is delicious...can't wait to see these two together on track during a race. There's magic in store I feel...


i feel the magic won't arrive because generally Seb is a little way up the track! 🙂


except for when he's behind mark..

Bring Back Murray

He can only get so far up the track by the first corner!


Yeh, but consider that the only way Mark could have worst starts is by starting in reverse and going backwards at lightsout.


Well Tim they'll have to meet on track at some point, if it takes a few races because Seb is ahead generally then the tension will just build nicely to the moment when they do. I thought it was 50/50 as to whether this would eventually be forgotten about and everything would calm down, that's certainly out the window now!


Yeah, this isn't "Prost vs Senna" or "Hamilton vs Alonso", Vettel has shown Mark a pretty clean pair of heels in their time together. They were only close in 2010 because of Vettel's car failures.


Hardly, they're just not comparable in magnitude.

In 2010 Vettel lost c. 65-70 points more than Webber through mechanical failures (mostly Australia, Bahrain and Korea) and still beat him home.

In 2012 Vettel beat Webber by 100 points. Are you seriously suggesting Webber's various maladies were worth 100 points more than Vettel's, especially considering Vettel lost a race win in Valencia through his alternator problem?

(Plus Webber's poor starts can hardly all be put down to car issues, he's never been a good starter for most of his career.)


So you manage to recall Vettel's mechanical failures of 2010, however, fail to acknowledge Webber's "bad luck" with KERS/race starts/mechanical failures of 2012?

Scuderia McLaren


Mark has used 1 of his 2 GP winning performances per year. We might see him at Silverstone again.

Bring Back Murray

LOL Poor Mark Webber...


Well done Seb, you've well and truely shot yourself in the foot now. Webber will now do all he can to upset the Redbull apple cart now.

I would not be at all surprised to see the 2 of them come together at least once this year, and if it comes down to a final race, I expect Webber to do everything he can to prevent Vettle winning.


Vettle should not expect any help from Webber, but that doesn't concern me because I think Vettle has proven that he doesn't not need Webber's help to win championships. Webber never supported him and I appauld him saying what we have all already known.


One thing is sure - Ron will never hire Vettel in McLaren.


Want to bet? No matter how much they hate him, If he were available all the Team Bosses would hire him. Guys Like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonzo are very much in demand. I can wager a 1000 pounds if you go ask Don this question that he will say he would still hire Vettel.


Vettel is EXACTLY the type of driver Ron would love to have driving for him right now.

A ruthless winning machine.

But don't worry Joel, Vettel will hand out hugs and kiss babies when he's 45. On weekends he will come over to Shumi's house to joke about how no one ever thought Schumi's 7 would be broken. James will do a lovely book about Vettel to go along with the one he did about Schumi. All will be right with the world once again.

But before that happens. There are WDCs to be won. Vettel is the man to win them.


Yeah, Ron loved it when Alonso challenged his authority. They've been best buds ever since.


I agree with most of what you say however other than current economical environmental and sociopolitical issues I really don't see much wrong with the world.


If Webber clearly does something melicious to stop Vettel on track he will not only get smacked by the FIA, but that will be the end of his F1 carrier. He better race clean for his team and his carrier. He's too old to rehabilitate if he ends up looking bitter and reckless with stunts like pushing Vettel into the wall.

Do you see anyone braking down his door trying to hire him? Ferrari? Not likely, unless it's a 3rd driver role.


He's got too much class to crash into Seb, and theres no sign of him looking bitter..did you see the Chinese press conference? Lotus have wanted Webber for years and the team principal is a big fan. He'd probably still get a drive there if he wanted it, but I doubt he would. I was hoping he would lat year as then I'd have my two favourite drivers in the same team, but don't think it will ever happen.


I would love to see Mark at Lotus. He is a very cerebral driver and has the car setup and feedback skills to really help them along with car development.

Covnersely, I would love to see Kimi at Red Bull as well. I think he would light a fire cracker underneath Vettel and would take no prisoners. It would be two "bullish" heads butting.

I can imagine the possible conversation:

Pit Wall: "Kimi, hold position, do not overtake Seb".

Kimi: "Shut up, do not talk to me, I know what I am doing".


Indeed Luke you've got a point there, Lotus makes sense for Webber and vice versa. It would be wise for Lotus to keep their options for next year.

I'm not sure Kimi wants to go elsewhere. But it wouldn't be out of the question for Kimi to go along with Vettel.

I think 2014 driver lineup changes are going to be quite interesting.


Well, alright then. Tell us how u really feel Seb. It's official he really is a spoilt brat.

Scuderia McLaren

So basically Webber will continue to act as he had done for the last few years. Made no difference then I suppose.


Hope you are right!


Vettel doesn't mention where he supported Webber in the past??

If Horner thought he was in charge this latest statement shows that in the eyes of Vettel he certainly is not.

Vettel may be a multiple world champion but he certainly cannot be someone who is seen as a shining example or mentor in his industry. With millions in the bank earned from this same industry I doubt whether Vettle cares a hoot.........Pity, I supported him in the past....time to find another favourite.


If you listen carefully, you can hear in the background the sound of Christian Horner's goolies rolling gently down pit road.


Cool, can i have your jacket?

I'm a 44


Vettel support Webber?

I think you need to check again to see what number is on each car.


Webber almost went through 2011

--without a win

--with a huge car advantage ...

-until the last race - where Seb pulled over and waved his number 2 through.


Oh its like that is it?


Darn skippy! 🙂



Seb is digging himself deeper and deeper.

"I do not apologise for winning."

"I was indirectly paying Webber back."

He'll lose a lot of fans. And probably gain some. One thing's for sure: he'll lose team support just when he'll need it the most considering he's above that sort of thing.



He'll only gain fans among those who believe that winning is everything in life and things like morals come a distant second - he's welcome to those fans.


Is it 'moral' to rob the fans of racing two-thirds into a race? Do other sports just 'settle' before full time, effectively wasting everybody who's watching's time? Team orders are the equivalent of going to a music concert and being played a CD for the last 20 minutes. It is disgusting. I cannot believe that everyone is talking about Vettel when clearly the whole of F1 is blatently disrespecting fans by allowing 'team orders' like these. I know that it is a team sport, but fans are who pay for every team in the end.


My point is that it make no difference to the team which driver is first and which is second - the Team get the same amount of points. Why keep a slow driver in front of a fast driver? The Team gets the same amount of points, regardless.

What is bad about the situation as it is is that the fans get a 'fake' result and no one is happy (Hamilton saying that Nico deserved it). I agree that team mates should not drive each other off the road, but if the driver behind is clearly faster what is the point? People watch races because they like racing - not risk management by teams.

You must also remember that those 100's of millions of dollars are only there because millions of people watch the races. If those people - the people commenting here - feel that the result is artificial, they will stop watching and F1 will no longer exist.

It is like watching a football match up to 15 minutes from the end and then the winning team decides to just pass the ball among themselves... very unsporting!


Good grief! You say that you understand that F1 is a team sport yet CLEARLY you do not! Let's swap it round shall we? You do not see strikers in Football tackling each other on the same team because they both want to be the one to score the goal. You do not see doubles partners in Tennis leaping into each others positions because they want to be the one who scores the point!

You cannot complain about team orders AND say that you understand that F1 is a team sport - it's a complete contradiction.

F1 is a team sport and team tactics apply to beat every other team on the grid to that whihc they value most: the 100's of millions of dollars on offer for the Constructors championship. This is the same as every sport the world over. You get to watch every driver racing every other driver on the grid (even including their team mate until the last pit-stop)!


Winning is everything Wayne. That is what all the drivers on the grid aim to achieve no matter the cost. In 5 years no one will remember this. They will only remember his records. And trust me it doent bother most people. He stood up and took what is rightfully his, 4 years 4 times fighting for the championship untill the very end 3 WDC, 26 wins, 48 podiums, 38 Poles vs Webber record of only one fight for WDC (that too because his team mate has 5 retirement in races he was comfortably leading head for victory)9 victories, 35 podiums 11 poles. In the same car Vettel seems to be achieving at least 3 times better results than webber just looking at the stats. I mean if in 4 years you cant beat your team mate even once over the course of the entire year why even pretend you are anything than a no 2 driver. Nice guys dont finish first. If that were the case Pedro de la rosa would be multiple World Champion. Look at Micheal, Alonzo, Hamilton, they all are ruthless that is what Champions are made up off. This is not about being liked or hated. Its purely based on performance. No matter how many fans hate him, I still bet his sponsors and his team will still support him 100% as long as he brings in the bacon


"people will remember this..."

"many people hate him...."

"people will..."

"people will not..."

When you said "people" you mean "english people", am I right?



What I have learned about Schumi after all these years is that the man on the track was not the man in real life.

I learned that he is one of is not the most balanced, humble, focused sports figures (who owns their respective sport records) on this planet.

So he run some British or Canadian guy of the track once or twice in a heat of battle. So what? In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Everyone lived, only egos were hurt.

I think many fans here are not able to detach on-track acts from the person. We act high and mighty as if we never ran a red light or drove a bit agressively on the motorway. Doesn't make us horrible human beings. Just a bit silly in that moment.

I don't see the world media run you Wayne through the grinder for 3 weeks over that red light you ran in the school zone 8 years ago.


Guys lot of drivers were ruthless in their era but the press coverage was not as intense as it is now. In our internet age every small detail gets over coverage. I mean you got facebook twitter, rss feeds and a million fan sites. Those days there was only a news paper and no place or forum for fans to actually express themselves like we have now. If there was an outlet i am sure you would have seem similar behavior from our older heroes. I had an uncle who used to hate senna because he was ruthless. In fact google the spats between Senna and Prost where they had to take one and other off to win world championships do you really think that has tarnished their image as all time greats? Or for that matter any other spats between race driver any racing or any sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_rivalries#Drivers.

Fyi most people harbored the same feelings towards some of the legends them as you have against Vettel, Its quite natural and its also good for the sport.Race Drivers dont get paid to come second they get paid to win. Its very ruthless at the top and once you stop being consistent you get dumped. Sometimes even good driver lose their seats. Only the best, aggressive and ruthless drivers survive, the nice guys well like Pedro de la Rosa will tell fade away or for that matter Webber, I mean seriously in 20 years no one will even remember Webber while Vettel, Alonzo and Hamilton will surely leave a mark in history. One bad move will not tarnish the other Victories against his name. Fyi most people harbored the same feelings towards some of the legends them as you have against Vettel, Its quite natural and its also good for the sport, and really great for the ratings.

Love him or hate him, you cant ignore him. And he has got at least 10 more years of racing in him obviously he wont win all the WDC and races in those 10 years but his speed and consistency has assured that any top team he want to drive for will accommodate him even if he is selfish or ruthless even a team like Mclaren if they knew he was available. So there will be at least a few more Championships and a lot of wins before he retires.

@Msta end of the day history will remember Vettel as a multiple champion and no matter of how much funs hate him, for every one fan that hates him there is another who adores him, at the end of the day he is equally part of the Red Bull Success as much as Adrian Newey is. Eventually He will drive for Ferrari just like they choose Alonso who too is very self centered they will chose him, I think they have made it very clear. And this really doesnt matter to them, what matters is a driver who is consistent and fast and winning. Racing isnt about dying and soul living on, its purely about winning. There is no "it doent matter if you win or lose what really matter is that you took part" attitude. There are only winners and the one who only take part exit eventually without anyone noticing. As long as he keeps winning his legacy will live on.


here watch this


They are fighting from the last pit stop to the conculsion of the overtake, i am very sure Webber dint turn his car down until he knew he had the lead and everything settled down. What he did say was that the team said turn the engines and maintain position. He dint say that he actually turned his engine down. After his pit stop they were neck and neck till the completion of the overtaking. The move itself was not conducted on the straight but 3 or 4 corner later because Vettel had better traction on his tyres. Vettel had smartly opted to use the faster tyres in the final stint. Webber knew Vettel was trying to overtake him and he tried to even defend it by pushing him nearly into the wall an offence for which Micheal Schumacher was given a penalty a few years back. Turning the engine revs is not complicated. its just a dail or a button that the driver needs to press. Watch the reply of the overtake, if indeed Webber engine was turned down dont you think Vettel would have been atleast a car lenght ahead before breaking for the first corner due to the double benefit of using DRS and the added speed and acceleration advantage of running higger revs. They were side by side by the first corner which means Webber was on full engine map. Vettel make the move after 3 corners because he had saved the faster tire for last stint while webber used them before his last pitstop. That proves two things one that when Webber was on the faster tyres before his last stop, intentionally backed Vettel into Hamilton for reason only he knows(no points for speculation and i am not alluding anything but this point was not lost on Vettel and you can hear him complaining). And secondly he did try to fight back after Vettel overtook him but his pace on those tyres were no match for Vettel on his tyres. So the only way i see it is that Vettel did ignore team orders but he also make a legitimate overtake move without Webber being handicapped by turning his car down as most of you assume.

Now for the third part Webber isnt the one to back off from a confrontation. But ever wonder why he came back quiet not because he has moved on or he is a greater man. I am sure after the race the team showed him that he is equally to blame for this situtation. He has ignored team order many times before, nearly cost Vettel the championship in Brazil. I think you need to read his own views on team order of which i very sure was also mentioned to him after the last race. And this is the actual reason he has kept his mouth shut and Vettel has opened his. This is his own article written for bbc.


I am pretty sure if it were he who was chasing Vettel, he too would have ignored the orders and then said the very same thing he said in his column all over again.

Btw I am not German. And among the current lot of drivers I adore Vettel and Hamilton and respect Alonzo although i do not like him so much.


It's simply NOT true that people only remember the stats, not at all, look at Schumacher - even people outside of F1 know more about him than the stats, they know about the things that he did whihc were wrong and sometime were plain cheating. He will always be known for it.


"He stood up and took what is rightfully his".

Please explain why the win was rightfully his.

In the race I saw, Webber beat him on the track fair and square. The Weasel struck after the team called race over.

Yes it bothers me and lots of other people who have posted here.


Yes but no amount of bacon, money, WDC's or morals will save his or anyone else's soul.

The bacon gets eaten, the money gets spent, the memory of WDC's fade away, and moral's get broken.

We all die but the soul lives on. It's not just about winning.


+1 Aaron.

Well said


Ah, records get broken too.

''He stood up and took what is rightfully his''.

There is that entitlement thing again.

Make no mistake, people will remember this just as they have with MSC unless of course, there is 'blind love' so nothing can change that.

This ruthless term is becoming a pain and misplaced. For the last time there are many many champions that don't need to be 'ruthless'....and they are respected more for it.


On second thought, anyone who seconds my nomination of Webber as 2 Times F1 Morals Champion, stand up and be counted.



Any two years you like! See the "no. 2" theme? 🙂


I'm sure you hold Webber ignoring team orders in the past in the same moral light


I don't recall Webber apologising to VET and his whole team and then saying 'I might just do it all again' meaning his apology was totally insincere.



First read this:


Second, remind me please what does the FIA Morals Champion's Trophy look like again? Does that driver get assigned a number for the following season? Does Guiness World Record book keep a list of top F1 Morals Champions?

What are we watching this weekend? Kindergarden coloring competition?



Grow up. Winning is not everything. Nor is going to your grave with the highest bank balance. These men like all professional sportsmen are paid to entertain, and as a result are watched by many millions of people every week. They, whether they like it or not are role models for future generations. Would you be pleased if you child came home and said "hey dad, today I really beat shit out of that kid because he didn't do what I said he should"?


Mike J,

Lucky for everyone there is enough drivers to favor, support and cheer for.

What I find a little funny in this whole thing is that someone people choose to see Webber as moral, yet clearly that is not the case in their run-ins. A solid argument could be made that Webber is a worse offender than Vettel trying to trip up his team mate on a number of occasions - yet fans are for him and ready to hang Vettel. Strangely misplaced and lapsided view I think.


do you know a bloke called Stirling Moss?.....ok how about Jack Brabham or Jackie Stewart? There are examples of both WDC and non WDC drivers.

It is galling that people put 'ruthless' as a pre requisite for a champion as in the case of Vettel. I have seen many, many champions who don't need this type of attitude. Focussed, hard, 'driven', single minded, self belief yes, ruthless seems to only to be a later day 'add-on'. Morals seem to be lost. I know which champion i will support.


So just to be clear, because there are no points for decency it doesn't matter? I'm guessing that you don't get any points in your job for decency or even a trophy but I bet you try and be decent right 😉


I've lost a lot of respect for him today. I wasn't that fussed with what he did in Malaysia, but he obviously felt that people had enough affection for him that he could just apologise and it would be forgotten.

Now he's realised that didn't work he's going on the offensive. If he really felt this way then why apologise after the race and say that he had 'robbed' Webber of victory?

He says he is sorry for putting himself above the team, but in coming out with all this rubbish straight after Horner and Marko had said the matter was resolved, that is exactly what he is doing.

I wonder if he's been taking PR lessons from a certain Mr Schumacher in the last three weeks?


Seb only apologised when he saw the teams reaction, they were angry and he feared what they could do to him. Now that there has been no punishment or repercussions its back to his same old attitude as usual. This event has only made that worse.


he will lose team support? dream on 😀


Whats more realistic nusratolla, is that he will have "full team support" as spruiked by the RBR PR team...whilst he has a few "unfortunate" pit stops, where gosh, darn, the mechanics drop a few guns or get the wrong tyres ready. And what a shame that would be 😉




to me, what's disappointing is that teams even pull this "hold station" business in the first place! i tune in to watch a race...not a tire-nursing, points-gathering, play-it-safe-as-milk drive down the highway. let them race for goodness sake! separate the wheat from the chaff! let the drivers stop being polite to one another...bring back BEN HUR!!!


Yes. I have never been a Vettel fan however prior to the Malaysia incident I did at least respect him. But now, especially with Vettel's attitude, I no longer do. He may well now achieve a record he never even thought of: most hated driver ever.


No Winning driver or for that matter successful man is loved. We all envy them because we wish we were half the men they are. So no matter how much you hate him or the other fans hate him, Look at Micheal, He was hated because he was winning the same with Seb and the same with any driver who performs consistently. I bet you everything will change when he changes those blue overalls for scarlet Red.


What a load of Red BULL.


I loved Fangio,and Moss,because they were exciting drivers to watch, and real sportsmen. Schumacher, And Maybe Vettel will never be in the same league,no matter what the statistics say at the end of their careers.

It's got nothing to do with jealousy or Hate Aaron,just sportsmanship and good character.


''No Winning driver or for that matter successful man is loved.''

Couldn't be further from the truth. I know of many champions that are loved and admired by fans.....and i certainly don't admire sports people, champions or not, that act like this.


He's not a man, he's a boy. His behaviour throughout this saga is proof of that.

Successful men can be liked, it is patently false to suggest that you need to be a jerk to be successful. Some people are just like that, young Vettel is a case in point, his idol was the same. Small wonder really.


'We all envy them because we wish we were half the men they are'

Speak for yourself.

Yes if we had a race he'd beat me: Big deal.

There's more to life than that.


Speak for yourself dude, I don't wish to be a 1/1000th of that arrogant, hypocritical, dishonest child, let alone half of him! I've got more 'man' in my little finger, and I reckon I could drive faster too. Same cars, any Scottish A-road of his choosing, he would be in my dust lol! (or should that be spray, its always too wet here for the roads to get dusty!)


So he's talking about how he apologised to the entire team as soon as he possibly could, yet insisting he'd do it again at the next possible opportunity. Well, what an empty apology.

I'm very surprised at how little Red Bull have been able to do to calm the situation down in the last three weeks. I'm surprised at how self-centered Vettel is being after surely being reminded that he works for the team.


I know F1 isn't a popularity contest, but someone really needs to hand Seb a copy of "How to win friends and influence people" or something - at this rate, he's going to destroy the image and support he's built up thus far pretty quickly. Can't imagine Red Bull will be too pleased to hear him say he'd wilfully disobey them again as well; does rather suggest he thinks himself more important than his paymasters.

I've been a fan of Vettel for a while, but I have to admit he's losing my respect doing things like this.


I think we need warriors like Kimi, Lewis and Vettel and should immediately discontinue the Schumacher era precedents where team mates are not allowed to race each other. But what astonishes me is that the level of inconsistencies here. When Schumacher pushes Rubens to the pitwall the world comes down on him, but when Mark does it Vettel it gets shoveled under team behavior. You know what? Vettel must create new precedents for F1 something in the lines of Kimi. "Just leave him alone... he knows what he's doing". For in the end of the year it won't be Mark that would be fighting the dangerous Ferrari of Alonso it would Vettel as proven in the past.

Happy Racing 🙂


I think there's a lot of potential for Red Bull to implode this year. I'd suggest one of the drivers will leave for 2014. This level of bad will cant be sustained without issues on track. Gonna make great racing/viewing!


Cooler heads will prevail.

They are going for two #4 Championships.

If Webber doesn't understand his role in this, he doesn't belong on that team. Anyone who wishes to claim high moral ground better deliver for the team.

I'm confident it is not Webber's mission to burn bridges behind him. He knows what he needs to do this year.

Owner of RBR would sure let him know the two goals for 2013. In case someone is not clear on what they are:

1. Help win #4 WCC for the Team.

2. Help Vettel win #4 WDC.

Anything that doesn't fit in above two goals is unacceptable.


All very good points and I have to agree that is more than likely the teams stance. I just think MW has nothing to loose and he clearly doesn't like SV. He didn't help him in the title decider and if he gets a sniff he will not get a contract for next year the he has no incentive not to try and take the title himself. Also with his mentality I think he'll be fuming at SV's comments. SV will want to put MW 'back in his box'. Horner clearly doesn't have the authority to curb them (nor do I think any other TP would). I just have a feeling (and it's just a feeling) that there'll be issues. You may well be right that cooler heads will prevail! Either way I'm looking forward to China and beyond!!!!



What you say is true. But honestly, Webber hasn't helped in the past and Vettel notched up 3. I think Webber is bitter about 2010, not being backed by the team. That was "supposed" to be his and that's where this all started. He still hasn't let that go perhaps.

But if Webber thinks he'll be given any room to sabotage the 2 goals for 2013, he's dead wrong.

Dietrich Mateschitz would sit Webber out in a blink before allowing him to became a liability in your scenario. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised he hasn't been sidelined after those boarderline moves in Brazil 2012. I think only the fact that RBR and Vettel won made punishment of Webber unnecesary.

There is only 1 way Webber can sabotage Vettel:

Webber is not renewed for 2014 like you say, and WDC comes down to last race where that hypothetical act is commited.

If given that scenario and opportunity, Webber wishes to sabotage Vettel and drag his name through mud and into the Hall of F1 Shame, and undo everything he has achieved in F1 and forever be remembered as a bitter looser who was reckless and endangered another driver tarnishing/fixing a WDC result with his action, it may be a possibilty. Do you think he would go that far? I certainly don't.


Why wouldn't vettel just stay quiet, I really dont understand what he thinks he is going to achieve by saying this. It doesn't exactly endear him to the team and the fans does it.

Is this a ego legacy building thing?

Does he want to be perceived as a ruthless schumacher or senna type?

I just dont get it.

I can appreciate his point of view and his reasoning but the whole 'mark screwed me over so I screwed him over back and will do it again' line is best kept in his thoughts.


He was asked the direct question. I don't want drivers to lie, I'd rather them be honest.

I think people take these quotes and put them in absolutes. There's no absolute in what Sebastian said if you read it fully:

“I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same. Had I understood [the coded Multi 21 message] and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second. I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing. He didn’t deserve it. There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

The great thing about Seb is that he bothers to take time to give the press an answer. He even directly says to them: "There is quite a conflict..." he's saying that the answer is not absolute. This is FAR different than the evil, devious, untrusting driver that people are making Seb out to be.

There are times where he would have yielded, but this was not one of those times, and he had his reasons (and I frankly agree with him). The pit strategy, the tire situation between Seb and Mark, the comments made on the radio to Seb about "This is a long race, be patient"... I mean, I've poured over countless lap times and tire choices and stint lengths myself... everything up to the last pit stop indicated that the race was Seb's to go after. The team orders frankly came out of nowhere and didn't make any sense this early in the season.... maybe in Ferrari it would have made sense, but Red Bull is a team that has always held the line that there is no No.1 driver, and that they are free to race. The team simply made a mistake invoking team orders. BTW, teams make mistakes ALL THE TIME... it's ok. Christian and Red Bull will learn from this. It appears they already have, as they've said that they'll not use team orders again. BUT... THEY WILL... because this is not absolute either. It will absolutely make sense to invoke team orders in certain situations... one driver is on a different strategy, one driver is mathmatically eliminated from the championship... etc. They're trying to tell everyone that they indeed made a mistake invoking team orders THIS time, and in similar circumstances, they wouldn't do it that way again.

Incidentally, I actually think that the odd decision to invoke team orders was spurred on by Alonso's elimination. The opportunity that Alonso's retirement gave was too big to ignore and maybe Christian felt he had to 'steal' these points from Ferrari... especially on a day when he was NOT expecting to be running 1-2 at the end. Maybe Sebastian felt he had to 'steal' these points away from Mark and Alonso...

The main thing that I learned in this whole situation is that Red Bull were ready and willing to support Mark Webber in 1st position and give him advantage over Sebastian. Everyone saying that they only favor Seb (another absolute!) should pay very close attention.


You never know maybe he is just trolling the press like he normally does and he will have the last laugh when this actually plays out over the course of the next few weeks. I am pretty sure an intelligent driver like him must have a very good reason to say such things. They are well thought of. I mean he had 3 weeks to think about all this. So in a few weeks things will get clearly. Unfortunately the suspense is killing us. Let the racing begin


What could be truly interesting is to see who gets first call on pit stop timing. Will it be whoever is in the lead, or will it be Vettel irrespective of track position ?

I can't see Webber acquiescing in surrendering the timing of his last pit stop as he apparently did in Malaysia.


...read the Thursday Press Conference in China and Webbers answer.

Quite enlightening.

Webber seems quite content in his 'world' at present. Vettel and Marko seem very contradictory


Gosh! Vettel seems to be self-destructing .

Fred from Sydney

I think if he were self-destructing he'd be apologising for winning again.


Stop moaning.. I'd like a bit of whatever Vettel has been smoking myself.


are you kidding?


so all is not well between the two drivers even tho rbr have been tryin to convince us otherwise. This strikes me that in the cold light of day after the emotional highs and lows of malaysia, Vettel still thinks he is bigger than team. Will it affect his relationship with Webber? More than likely. Will affect his relationship within the team? Doubtful, the management moght look weak for a few months, but by the time the lift the constructers and wdc that will be a distant memory. I personally started to dislike Vettel after the turkey incident. I do feel that he might have fell out of favour with some fans over the whole incident, although we only have to look at Schumacher to see you can still be disliked and be considered one of the greats.


I doubt they had much of a relationship after Turkey 2010. I did enjoy Mark's comments in his book "Up Front" where he explained they needed to be told to stand closer together for post incident PR shots.


“There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time."

You would when the majority of them are in your favour!!

SV got the better pit stop lap to prevent the Lewis undercut, which I completely understand and support. At this point the team obviously needed to point this out in more stronger terms. MWs tyres were ruined and SV put in a quali style outlap on fresh rubber to find himself next to him. Based on standard team practice, MW would normally have had the stop and driven off into the distance. Combine this with whatever engine mapping/KERS settings instructions that had been enacted/ignored which were all in SVs favor, PLUS the decision by MW to go to primes on the last stint under the mistaken impression there was no threat from behind and tyre longevity not performance was the key consideration and you have the circumstances that allowed SV to be

a) where he was on track in relation to MW as MW exited the pits
b) apparently faster than MW for pace 'at that stage of the race'
c) easily able to pass MW with only a modest and inevitable fight
d) convinced of his entitlement to the win

The greed and arrogance and hollow apologies are secondary to his inability to recognise how the situation arose.


Precisely - and this series of events, along with no specific instructions from the RBR pitwall for Vettel to either a) not pass, or b) give the position back does lead to the impression that this is the result Red Bull wanted.

I was amazed Webber re-signed after last year, and I think he's paying the price now even moreso than with the dodgy KERS and strategy calls of last season. More than anyone though it's the RBR management who come out of this looking like idiots.


Vettel +1, he should have said this immediately after the race!

I fully understand his decision!


Mark is a nice guy, but Vettel is right; Mark did make Vettel's life unnecessary difficult in some races..


But now that we do have small glimp of insight of how things will go in that team, I don't think this episode will be good for the RB Team.


I don't actually remember Vettel helping Webber much in the seasons when Webber was leading the WDC. Does anyone?


The only one I can recall is Turkey 2009. JB was easily leading, Webber was running 2nd, Vettel 3rd. Vettel was told to maintain position behind Webber for a 2-3 result. Actually they said "Mark is faster". He complied with the order. Prior to the start of the race, Vettel was on ~23 points and Webber ~ 21 points. JB ~56 points.



+ 1000000000000


Vettel said he would if the situation arose on a couple of occasions, something Mark has never said in return. Luckily Mark self destructed so Vettel's help wasn't required.


You seem to forget that in 2010 Vettel cause the accident in Turkey, then they didn't allow Webber to challenge Vettel in the next race, then they took his front wing and gave it to Vettel in Silverstone, they didn't support Webber in the last 3 races although it was the sensible thing to do to win the title, favouritism was so blatant in 2010. What did you expect Webber do in '11 and '12 then? The one time Vettel is asked to stay behind and he throws his toys out of the pram and doesn't care about anyone, not even the team that feeds him. RBR started everything in 2010 by favouring Vettel, they were the first.


Spot on!! Vettel fans seem to have a short memory. In Turkey 2010 Red Bull made it plain that Vettel was the favoured son, the sight of Horner giving Vettel a cuddle after he had caused the collision said it all.


What part of "multi-21" benefitted Red Bull's favored son?



I'd like to add that I don't believe teams orders existed pre-race at Silverstone 2011. The team order only came about when Vettel asked for it knowing Webber was going to catch him.

I also remember The team thanking Webber in Brazil 2012 for letting Vettel by later in the race.

Vettel needed bugger all points in Brazil to claim WDC, Webber was entitled to fight for first to gain as much as he could in the standings.


Please, for crying out loud stop using the wing story against Sebastian. It was one of the biggest media fueled false stories in F1 and mark used the media shamelessly to make him look like the Victim of Seb's success.

Here are the facts from that day, which can be found if you look at it without prior judging.

* RBR brought two new wings to the track

* each driver got one for practice

* Seb's broke his

* RBR had an internal conference before qualy, in which Marks engineering team said that:

* they didn't believe the new wing worked as it should (which they consequently proved in the race by winning)

* Seb's engineers weren't sure, as the wing broke before they could make a full conclusion

* Newey wanted both wings in the race

* So RBR decided to give the new wing to SEB

* When the new stuff obsessed media saw this, they went nuts

* Flavio called his boy mark and told him to use this outrage to make him look like RBR doesn't give equal treatment, (which obviously worked)

* Seb, Horner and RBR kept quiet about thinking that truth will come out anyway

Mark is not the victim, he is just not consistently fast enough to really challenge Vettel for the WDC, he is also getting older now and running out of time.

RBR thought getting a 1-2 in Malysia and having both drivers be 1-2 in the Championship standings would be cool PR, but Seb didn't get the Multi 21 message until mark told him in the prep room after the race. To this point Seb thought he only broke the pre-race agreement (which was supposed to protect him anyway) and may have risk the cars due to actual racing early in the season. He didn't have time to sort his thought and was pushed by RBR Pr to apologize.

Now three weeks after he knows how he feels about it, but he is on the media backfoot anyway. So all he can try is to show some truth. Nobody is perfect, but history will remember the winners.

Go Vettel.


LOL at no sense of reality

Scuderia McLaren


Scuderia McLaren

+1 Horno. Totally agree. This is the rhetoric that Vett should have said after the race. The truth. And he is right, he simply "Webbered" Webbo. Webber ain't no angel and his victim image makes him look more a hypocrite. Most of us watched Brazil 2012 and Britain 2011, among other moments.


*Most of us watched Brazil 2012 and Britain 2011, among other moments.*

In that case you will recall Mark moving over for Seb in Brazil'12 and the team saying thank you Mark over the radio. That's 1 more time than Seb has moved over for him.


Yes, you're right. He should have said this straight after the race. But he didn't. Instead he apologized. This says a lot about his character:

- he didn't have the courage to say this, choosing to lie (which I actually doubt)

- he has now given this incident a bit more thought, and tried to excuse himself of blame, preferring to turn it around on MW, i.e. this is actually his fault not mine (more likely scenario)

Either scenario shows Vettel not man enough to really own up to his mistake. Regardless if what he says/this, he has gone against team orders.

[mod] giving fake apologies, changing his story, etc. are only going to divide Red Bull further.

You could say SV is dumb for coming out and saying this, but now if he doesn't win the WC he can blame Webber.

SV - my estimation of you as a driver remains the same, but as a person, get a spine and become a man.


Why should Mark have to help this punk win endless championships?? Mark is racing too. Why should he be held up by team orders that give vettel an oppotunity to pass?


And why should Vettel be held up by team orders!?


Because Vettel brings home the winnings. In the last 4 years together Vettel has won 26 races to webbers 9, and vettel has 38 poles to webber 11, 3 WDC to webbers 0, get the point??? If you still dont, here is the fine print, If you are running a team you would naturally prefer the driver who brings in the most Victories and Championship. If you had to put all your money on a driver who would win the championship between just the two of them. Who would you bet on? I mean all your hard earned cash???


No real surprises, both Horner & Marko have mentioned Abu Dhabi & Brazil 12, and Briatore stated 'the only person to help Fernando in Brazil was Webber'.

FOM have definitely missed an opportunity in not licensing 'Shut up and drive' as the official F1 theme tune.


Hmm... maybe Vettel didn't get the full debrief, for how can Vettel believe Webber didn't deserve the victory when he had been told to turn down his car.

But anyway, two things this interview proves is not only does Vettel have the memory of an elephant but he also was quite hurt by Webber's lack of support in the past e.g. Abu-Dhabi 2012 when Webber didn't give way till the team pitted him.

Luckily for Vettel, he's usually at the front of a grand prix so coming out honestly to the media this way may not really hurt him in the future.

But one thing is for sure after today's interview, Vettel doesn't really mean it when he says sorry (maybe he always has two fingers crossed behind his back when apologizes)

Also confusing is the fact that it appears the team didn't discuss beforehand the prospect of team orders seeing as Vettel didn't know what Multi 21 meant.

Regards, I still think Vettel would have made the same decision even though he had given it more thought because honestly, there was so much to gain.

As for Webber, according to him, if he doesn't score good results this season (read wins), he would consider the prospect of retirement at the end of the season >>> Seems that way.


He was sorry that his decision hurt his team's feelings. He's not sorry for what he did. He didn't lie, he just explained it poorly by trying to do a PR exercise right after the race. Basically he's saying I'm sorry you feel bad that I didn't take your order, but I am sure I was right, and I'm not sorry about making my own decision to disregard your order.

I'm not saying he did the right thing in the race, but I don't actually think he's being duplicitous.

I actually thing more highly of him to come out and say, than on reflection he is happy with the decision he made, and that he would do it again. Everyone now knows where they stand.


Sebastian knew very well what it meant. It was evident in his facial expression when Mark said it to him after the race.


How to win friends and influence people by Seb

It seems that Seb thinks that team orders are there for him to pick and choose from. And he says in a pretty straight forward manner that he wouldnt follow team orders in the future.

Not alot of love lost between those two.

seb and marko are running the team. I dont know what Christians Job is?


Revange is best served cold.

Please let this go on! Oh the entertainment!


I agree. I'm not a fan of Vettel but I'm loving this. Things are much more interesting when there is personal animosity between drivers on the grid, let alone in the same team.


I know it's wrong what I'm about to say...but it has been a long long time since 2 drivers "worked it out" at a scene of a collision.

A fan can dream. I think these two will cool off. But just the chance of fireworks is fun. I actually hope that Vettel finds himiself behind Webber again one of these GPs. I'm sure FOM TV team have been given their instructions on what to focus on when/if that happens.



Only one winner.

Webber by KO



Wonder what the outcome would be of Webber vs. Vettel at the gravel trap ring, 1 round, no helmets?

I do believe that in this case, it may not work out too well for Seb. Unless he has been spending his winters in a secret Brazilian UFC training camp.


I think that's very astutely put Sebee - as soon as these 2 get near each other on track, guess where the local TV director is pointing his cameramen... Win, Win for RB media attention...

Scuderia McLaren


Sebee, it's going to be a great season!


I cannot believe what I just read... Unbelievable.

Bring Back Murray

As F1 fans this sets us up nicely for 2013.

But what the heck. He's just contradicted everything he said 3 weeks ago.


No he hasn't. He said he was sorry that the team felt hurt or bad. But he's not sorry for doing what he did. Whether it was the right decision (in the race) is not the same question.

He's clarified his position, and it should actually be lauded that he did so. He put his cards on the table.

On a side note. If I'm wrong in the above (quite possibly) and he has actually backflipped on what he said 3 weeks ago in the heat of the aftermath of battle, then is that not a mature thing to do? He's had the benefit of time and counsel to decide on his position, and he has come out with it. Or is everyone saying that you should always stick with first thing that comes out of your mouth, regardless of it's validity?


I'd rather have a season were the fairness rules. If I want drama, I'll sit and watch a soap opera.

Just a word of advise to Vettel. " Be careful of the toes you step on today, for they might me connected to the butt you have to kiss tomorrow."

Look at what happened to McLaren 2007.. It could have been an awesome racing season, but it was spoiled by drama of the race track.

I fear that this episode will spark to much controversy outside of the real racing, and that Vettel and his antics will take up the headlines to much of the time. I also want to read about Caterham, Marrussia, Force India, Sauber and their races, how their pit stops worked out, what problems they are facing with their cars, what technological problems they are facing. They are also part of F1, [mod]


These comments from Vettel are really inflammatory.

Christian Horner has been seriously undermined. The way he dealt with Turkey 2010 was terrible, and this situation is even worse. He has completely lost control - seems like Vettel and his biggest fan Helmut Marko run the team.

I'm sure Dietrich will not be too impressed. Makes you wonder if Vettel will indeed be moving to Ferrari in the very near future...


What a great way for a driver to side with the fans and let his team know that Team Orders are not acceptable!



Any 'possible' future move to Ferrari might just have been dashed with those comments.

Ferrari are a TEAM!!


Hate to burst your bubble but CH has just won 3 back-to-back double championships and has excelled in one of the toughest positions in business let alone motorsport. He's probably not too worried about the opinions of a few armchair fans!


Looks like it , what with Stefano praising Vettel recently.


Maybe RB want Kimi and Mark to race together - would make a good team I think.


I agree with this. The person coming out of this worst seems to be Horner. He clearly does not have much authority at that team.



He does an interview saying the matter had been resolved and then Vettel comes out with this. If he was in control of the situation then a lid should have been put on this as soon as they left Malaysia.

Vettel: 'Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen?'

Blantantly knows that he has commited the cardinal sin of ignoring orders from his team and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. I wouldn't be surprised if this incident changes his demeanour significantly as he now knows he is above punishment.


Are you listening Mark?

Vettel was not really sorry, despite all those apologys to the media after the race...so NOT genuine?

Let the Redbull battle commence!


Seb mate this is what you sshould have said on the Sepang podium!

Anyway,there is the real Seb for you,baby Schumi has come of age over the last three weeks,do any other Schumi fans feel some nostalgia?


I never heard schumi talk like that tho. but thats maybe the difference between them that Michael was a bit more human.



Now that's a backhanded compliment if ever I heard one 😀


Haha you know it:)


Let's hope this translates to an unforgettable on-track battle between the two in China.

I give Mark the edge this weekend due to the fresh haircut!

Worth at least a tenth or two ...

Bring Back Murray

Alonso must be sitting back and having a deep wry smile at all this!


This is what I wanted Vettel to say at the time.

Webber has ignored team orders a couple of times before. After ignoring team orders Webber has stated publicly that he will always ignore team orders and always fight for the win.

I feel that Webber would prefer another team and driver to win the WDC than Vettel. I mean watching Brazil last year I was dismayed at Webbers actions considering Vettels need to do well to win the WDC.

Webber has had the best car the same as Vettels for the last four years and still whines and bitches about his lot in life. Geeeez even Lewis Hamilton desperately wanted to drive a RBR.

Go Vettel....


Sure Mark said those things, before RedBull introduced (final pitstop-track position/multi 21) team orders during pre-race briefings which both drivers agree upon.

Scuderia McLaren

Couldn't have said it better bearforce1. Webber will go down in F1 history as a man having been given half a decade of GP winning and WDC challenging / winning machinery, designed by Newey, and is yet to get into double digit wins! I mean c'mon! What a waste. Not even a runner up WDC position. After all this RBR technical dominance, RBR have not even enjoyed a true 1-2 WDC overall result! Not even in 2011! 6th in last years WDC was appalling considering his equipment.


I do not respect Webber for anything, he is an "aussie grit" driver, a number 2 all the way. He deliberately tried to run Seb off the road in Interlagos and cheat his own teammate out of a very well deserved WDC, and from a deadly enemy, who has himself got away with cheating a number of times.

Hard to contain my contempt too, when people pointed out Webber's own mealy mouthed hipocracy when you look at his own words from before on exactly this subject. That time he also lost, after ignoring team orders himself... He is just a weak looser with an unpleasant line in lies and excuses to cover his own inferiority. To self style himself as "gritty" is laughable...

For his behaviour in Interlagos he should have been sacked, he was not just cheating his own team, us the fans, it was also a dangerous move.


As a racer, you obviously want to win.

It must suck to be on a WCC/WDC team and not be the WDC 3 years in a running. He sees this kid, beat a man. But such is the reality for Webber.

I think Webber has let his bitterness and "road rage" get the better of him on a number of occasions.

Many fans here have spoken here that Hamilton has become a man by going out on his own. I think that Vettel has done is equaly significant. Webber has been a bully on a number of occassions. Vettel has been to soft, almost a push over on those occasions. He has maned up and pushed Webber back. All fair in my view. This crap Webber has been pulling can't be a one way street. You want to dish it, you better be able to take it. Like a man.


I agree. Although I have been impressed with Seb's self control at not fighting back at Mark's bullying in the past, it's good to see him without the PR ties.

BTW James - 2nd paragraph, 3rd row should be passed not past.


Seebee what a load of tosh.!!

We can all agree the Vettel is generally faster but to say Webber has "Road Rage" is, to be frank, ridiculous.

Its has ridiculous as apologising to the team and factory for disobeying a team order and then 2 weeks later saying you would do it again anyway. Unbelievable.!!


You don't think there are moments of insanity and wrecklessness between these two? Why do you think Horner practices his yoga breathing when these two get close to each other?

Call it what you like, "road rage", "rush of blood to the head", some of the exchanges between these two have been absolutely in this category of thinking of the consequence after the incident.

And personally, I don't remember showing my middle finger to anyone while driving unless I'm raging. It was in my more youthful years where descretion and patience was limited.

Scuderia McLaren



I don't think i have read a more inaccurate comment driven by uncontrolled emotion for some time. Next!!!!


What he stated are facts. You are in denial if you think Webber did not igmore teamorders many times before and then boasted about it while being applauded by people like you.

Now he is served his own dish and suddenly he is the poor guy that needs sympathy?


''He deliberately tried to run Seb off the road in Interlagos'''.

That is not a fact.

I personally did not applaud Webber after Silverstone however you must know be better. However i can digest the fact taht Silverstone was a different scenario and one again, unfortunately, brought on my RB management themselves.

I am not sure how many times this must be said. In 2011, RB publicly stated that they have no team orders, they let their drivers race etc etc etc, they even spoke against Ferrari Germany incident. Then they impose an order 'mid-race'. That is why Webber was 'applauded', as you say, after that race by many


One wonders whether it's Vettel in charge at RB, certainly it's someone other then Horner.

One could question how Vettel has supported Webber to expect any 'quid pro quo' and for one who maintains he always respects team decisions... what went wrong on this occasion is it the exception that proves the lie.

What we now have are apologies to all and sundry that weren't worth the breath expended and an arrogance thats not particularly edifying. I'm coming to the belief that John Watson was right about making Vettel sit out this GP....


Sometimes I just think that this whole drama is a Red Bull PR dream - making it a talking point, giving it an 'edgy', controversial image. I wouldn't be surprised if the appropriate staff have briefed Vettel and Webber what to say after the incident and they now have their scripts. Let the show go on!


Meanwhile Vettel's overtake for the lead last time out was the first time (since 2010) that a driver other than Lewis had recorded the first on-track overtake for the lead in a season (this doesn't include first lap maneuvers)

Yes, so this means in 2010, 2011 and 201t, Lewis was always the first driver to overtake for the lead.


How about Webber on Alonso last year in Silverstone (I think)?


Sorry I didn't fully understand the post at first...


Finally a successor worthy of Senna. Win at all cost, period.

Go get them Vettel, I have changed from not caring for you to supporting you after these words.

The sour grapes from the usual suspects makes it even sweeter.


Well, as long as the team let Webber race him every lap of every race going forward. Rubbing my hands in glee. There would be no more cruising to the finish line for the RB boys. Let us see what that does to the engine and gearbox allocation and DNFs. Roll on Sunday. If it gets tough for the other drivers come race day, I can see them giving Webber a by to go after Vettel. Excellent. Bernie E. must be loving this.


Winning takes care of everything!~ Tiger Woods


oh dear. Something has very clearly shifted, either at RedBull, or in Seb's mind.

There doesn't appear to be any middle-ground left.

MW needs to play a straight bat for a couple of races


Vettel - F1s new bad boy! lol

I am not a Vettel fan but I love a good villain so his attitude gives the season added drama and enjoyment for me.


Maybe Bernie is paying Vettel to be a bastard and generate some drama. 😉


It's been a while since we've had a Senna Prost potboiler of a season. Sit back and enjoy the show.


It would indeed be a show if Webber had the speed of either Senna or Prost.


I predict very little drama between them this year unless mark learns how to complete L1 without giving up a few positions. maybe when it rains


The others might let him by to go after Vettel and break both cars in the process. No more cruising to the finish line for the RB boys.


Looks like Seb read all the news/blogs on how he should have came clean immediately, own up to it and not resort to " Oh I did bad, I'm the black sheep now......" idiocy and decided to play the game. I start to see two tiny pea sized attachments (thank you D. Hobbs) starting to grow.


Vettel has been honest.

His only mistake in Malaysia was not to express this sentiment from the beginning. He won a fan in me today.


Vettel has plummeted in my estimation after reading these. It's anyone but Vettel for me this year.


You know what they say....

"There is always next year!"


And a year after that 🙂


Sebee...LOL, your post have been very entertaining to read!!! Bloody brilliant, There's always next year!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!


should be all your posts with this article


at last some honesty!


Vettel may not have noticed but he probably should be careful using the words 'deserved' since half the other drivers think he has done nothing to 'deserve' his wins.

Someone in Red Bulls extensive PR outfit might want to point out that taking interview tips from the old Schumacher won't help his cause. Schumacher found a lot more support in his second career mostly because he'd ditched some of the 'I deserve to win at any cost' self righteousness.


"He didn't deserve it"

That says it all. Vettel is certainly a good driver, but he is also used to having his way. He feels entitled. I expect future crashes between these two.


Entitled? Just plain faster I would say.


Arrogant little so and so isn't he. However I'm unsure whether this is actually his fault or just the outcome you get with egomaniacs like Helmut running the show.

All that's really left now to really follow is his champion big brothers footsteps is to deliberately crash out competitors when it suits him.

Personally, I'd like to see Mark somehow find a way to wreck each race for him for the rest of the season.


Bitter at all!? Mark seems like a decent bloke (although he does play to the media & fans a bit) but unless he can uncover some hitherto hidden talent, the only way he could wreck Seb's race is by driving the wrong way round the circuit.


James, you rightly point out that Vettel apologised to Webber several times after the Malaysia race. So this contradicts his 'Webber didn't deserve it' comment now.

So it was either a false apology then or after three weeks thinking about it, Vettel (and Marko) have decided to come out 'swinging' ....on a form of damage control by diverting the heat.

Webber could easily say the same as Vettel “I never had support from his side......"

It seems that Vettels word is starting to become very similar to that of Marko. Can't really trust what they say cause weeks later, they come out and say something different or 'i didn't mean that'!!

But being a 3WDC champion at such a young age may have something to do with this too. Senna and MSC were older and that is the big difference between them.

If it wasn't messy before it certainly is now.

Stay tuned cause it 'ain't over yet.


"Webber, 36, was leading Vettel, 25, last time out in Sepang when the team ordered both drivers to hold position after the final pit stops"

What exactly was the order? Because I didn't hear it during the race. I thought it was a pre-agreed arrangement and not an order that was made during the race.

Also, Vettel says he didn't understand "the coded Multi 21 message" as James puts it. Why does it need to be coded?



Watch the race edit on F1.com. The radio message from Rocky (Vettels engineer) to Vettel is quite clear ''seb..multi 21''. It is played out on the edit in full.

It was not broadcast on TV. Listen and you can form your own opinion.


It needs to be coded, because otherwise it sounds bad.


Good question. Perhaps a hangover from when team orders were still illegal.

You're right, they could just say "Sebastian, please hold station behind Mark".

Bring Back Murray

Because Horner doesn't have the balls to say it directly?


Read this article:


and the above artice from James.

I watched a classic F1 race on SKY recently from Vettel's first win in Monza in the Torro Rosso.

That reminded me of how much I liked him at the start of his career.

It's amazing how things change and people can forget about where they came from. Not only that, he seems to have forgotten how much he owes Red Bull for starting his career in F1.

Total lack of respect or perspective for his Team and Team mate. Mark may not have helped him in the past but the team certainly have, especially in 2010 post Turkey incident. In many other teams Webber would have been helped to win that title......


Webber believed that he was not supported in 2010 for the title bid. So he believed that he did not need to support Vettel 2012. Favor returned.

Vettel believes that he was not supported at critical moments in 2012. So his pay back was the Malaysia GP 2013.

And so the grudge match continues...

OK, let's move on.


+1 How soon will Round 3 be though?!


Webber did everything he could to work against his own team and Vettel when it came to it. Way more than Vettel did against RBR or Webber. Why don't you talk about Webber should know where he comes from and how he owes RBR?

It all started in 2009 Brazil, Webber saying to the BBC: I would rather help Button win the title, than help Vettel.

He should have been sacked right there and then. The only mistake RBR did was offer him a contract after 2009.


Dietrich Mateschitz clearly doesn't think so.



I think your forgetting that along with DC he helped build the team from the old Jaguar rubbish.

Don't remember this 2009 Brazil incident but I think most people wanted Button to win that year? The sponorless underdeveloped car....

If Webber did make this mistake in saying that, and not supporting his team (mate) I think RBR still made the correct decision in remembering the work he did previous to this and not basing it on one incident. I also don't actually remember MW actually doing anything in the race to help Button win / effect Seb's race?

They both owe RBR - I think Webber showed respect to RBR in Malaysia by being the more mature person and not continuing the fight after the second corner (not running Seb off the track).


Webber should have been given priority in 2010 as early as Italy or Singapore. It made mathematical sense for the team to do this at the time. If the team had Vettel let Webber (running 2nd) through to win in Japan and Brazil, Webber would have won the 2010 championship comfortably. RBR would still have had the constructors championship as well.

As it turned out Vettel did end up winning the championship, but only just. Had Alonso managed to make up 3 places in Abu Dhabi and finish 4th, he would have been champion. Red Bull would have missed out on the drivers title. They were very fortunate here. Letting it play out like this was very reckless on the part of Horner.

From 2011 onwards it was all about Vettel, and Webber, who had been with them much longer and their best mathematical chance of the 2010 drivers championship was clearly labelled number 2.

Justin in Perth

I often have thought the same thing. The 1-2 finishes in Japan and Brazil should have been reversed, given Webbers lead over Vettel in the points. As it turned out, RB and SV were very fortunate the final race went their way, because it should have really been Alonso winning the Championship.


Webber didn´t lose 2010 due to lack of support.

In Korea Vettel had an engine failure, while Webber spinned out.

Without the engine failure Vettel would already been on top before Abu Dhabi.

In Abu Dhabi Webber just needed to win the race to secure the championship.

Vettel signaled he would move over in interviews before the race.

Vettel won the race.

It was the only race i remember, where Webber unintentional was a big help for Vettel.

After a bad qualiying he had to go for a dubious strategy to have any chances for winning the championchip.

Vettel was lucky, that Ferrari copied that desperation move.

On topic: I´m no fan of Vettels interviews after the race and now.

Regarding his history with Webber (Turkey, Silverstone, Brazil, ...) i understand that he doesn´t accept teamorders to stay behind Webber.

But unfortunatly he still does not speak the truth. Appologize for something he would do again, just makes no sence.

Webber on the other hand doesn´t appear to be any better.

If i remember it was him who demanded teamorder in 2010 and didn´t obey very important teamorders afterwards.

Just watch his interview before the Brazil Race for example.

Now he acts, like he was taken totaly off guard when Vettel disobeyed a teamorder.

When vettel leaved the pit in Malaysia, that was 2 rounds before he overtook Webber.

Just an idiot wouldn´t see that he tries to overtake.

If Mark had enough fuel i have no explanation why he didn´t switch the engine mod.

The move on the start finish line showed, he didn´t want to make it easy for Vettel.

Webber just likes to be the victim. He cries for teamorder in one moment, doesn´t obey teamorders in the next moment and cries again, if someone else doesn´t obey a teamorder


These comments can end one's career...

Under a different team principle these things wouldn't happen. I blame Horner entirely...


Some people always look for someone to blame. Others lead teams to unprecedented success.


It's kind of hard not to win with such a dominant car for 3 years and counting arguably... Thanks to Adrian not Christian...

Bring Back Murray

"These comments can end one’s career…"

Are you taking about Seb, Mark Webber, Horner, or all of them! 🙂


I'll go with Vettel 🙂


Perhaps Seb is now convinced Mark will be ousted from the team at the end of this year that he can say what he wants now, and no need to play happy families?

He's certainly come out fighting.

Scuderia McLaren

Perhaps he signed a Ferrari contract? New found courage as he now has nothing to lose?


Anyone else get the feeling that all RB driver-statements are now being carefully composed and orchestrated behind the scenes by their PR department in order to gain maximum publicity for the company?

Everyone loves a good story – the more controversial the better.

I think RB is playing a self-beneficial game.


Yes, I get that sense. If it is, they're doing a great job at it.


Its making Seb look like a fool. Would you be happy with that?


He made the management look like fools - maybe they wanted the last laugh.


Sounds a bit absurd. It might benefit them with publicity but it will do them no favors regarding harmonious team function which will affect what happens on the track. Points = money.


They haven't had harmonious 'driver function' for at least a year - hasn't stopped them getting the WDC/WCC consecutive triple.


True, but it has never been as toxic as it is now.


Interesting that Alonso felt the need to reiterate his commitment to Ferrari for the rest of his career around the same time as Vettel making these comments.


What odds on Webber suffering a "mechanical" or sudden "loss of power" this weekend?? No matter what RBR say in public, Vettel will always have their support.


Well well well, how prophetic were you?!


James, I'd love to hear Christian's take on this.. He tried to gloss over this rift with all sorts of PR speak in the last few weeks, now Vettel has clearly undermined him again and demonstrated that it's all a lie, nothing is well at all.

Corner him somewhere and give us the team's view on all this.


So his initial comments and apology after the race were insincere.

Good to know.


Already knew


This statement and the boldness vide which it was said is a clear indication of one thing and one thing only: Mark Webber's exit from Redbull is imminent.

Yeah, yeah there are many who thinks 'this and that' of Mark but what has he delivered? Vettel on the other hand has delivered three world titles with his first one being behind Alonso and Mark and winning it.

I think we need straight shooters like Kimi, Lewis and Vettel rather than politically motivated Webbers and Alonsos.

Ummmmmm' speaking on Kimi..... A Redbull in 2014 ?


Kimi, a straight shooter? What do you mean. If Kimi had been in Webber's position in this scenario, he probably would have emulated James Hunt and delivered a right hook to Vettel's chin.


True Webber has not won a world championship but I wonder how many SVettel would have won if Webber hadn't taken points away from SVettels championship contenders - that would be zero. I'd like to say "Words fail me" over Vettels comments but truely they don't and the ones I'd like to use can't be used here. As the saying goes "All press is good press". This tit of tat 'he did this v he did that' is starting to be a bit of a farce. The people whom I really feel for here are the team members that sit back at the factory and do all the hard work to put both drivers on the track. The disrespect from Vettel is just unbelievable.


May an era of heroes and not puppets dawn in F1. It leaves a bad taste the way Schumacher handled his teammates and the way Alonso handles Massa. May the dawn of the new F1 be of aggressive champions rather than corporate puppets.


Ummm no Webber has performed poorly. Vettel won 3 WDC. In the same car Webber has never even come second place in the WDC. Webber managed a pitiful sixth in one of those years in what people claim was a vastly faster/superior car.


Driver-10/10. Decent human 4/10 Team player 0/10.

He has already won the world "tool" title for 2013.


It is ridiculous for him to say Webber didn't deserve to win! How can anyone ever say that any driver doesn't deserve to win. Unless a driver literally cheats his way to victory, he deserves to win, no matter what the situation.


When he said he didnt deserve to win he meant his tyres and fuel were in poor condition in last stint of the race in comparison to Vettels and he would have had to do procession for 13 freaking laps!! That would had been a bigger joke.