F1 Winter Break
Mosley : Let FOTA do their own series
Mosley : Let FOTA do their own series
Posted By:   |  03 Jun 2009   |  10:52 pm GMT  |  104 comments

FIA president Max Mosley has broken his silence on the conditional entry the nine FOTA teams made last Friday to the 2010 world championship.

Speaking to Swiss paper Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley made it quite clear that he is not going to entertain FOTA’s demands that the budget cap idea be abandoned, that the 2009 rules be carried over for next year and that the new Concorde Agreement be signed by June 12th, the date on which the successful entries will be announced.

“You cannot sign an agreement which was specified so late, before June 12th.” he said. Clearly not willing to back down on the central point of his plan, which is the budget cap.

“I say, if you want to make the rules, then go an organise your own championship. Formula 1 is ours, we make the rules. We’ve started 60 years ago and we will continue like that.”

Mosley wants new teams in F1 and believes that FOTA’s conditional entry is a tactic, “It’s quite clear that they want to slow down the process of application to the championship so that it will be too late for the new teams.”

The FIA believe they have the FOTA teams exactly where they want them. They believe that Ferrari is subject to the same legally binding agreement to compete that has compelled Williams to enter and for that reason, on June 12th I think they will name Ferrari as an entrant, despite the Italian teams’s desire to be part of the dissident group. After that it will be up to Ferrari to challenge for their right not to compete.

As for the rest, they may start to sweat a little as the 12th gets closer and they realise that this is a game of musical chairs and that when the music stops, they might well be left with no chair. Mosley may have felt compelled to say something after almost a week of silence but he is not blinking as things stand.

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Max is a rock! Never have I seen a man
So able and at ease with such situations.


Dear James,

All players are playing hard ball here, i don't expect an official press release from FOTA in the next few days, but probably Ferrari, Toyota and Renault will make some kind of declarations about the situation and they will point towards expecting an acceptance from the FIA or they won't go on 2010.

If Ferrari is contractually bind we will have a long summer of entertaining for attorneys because the Ferrari board will fight it until the end.

What a shame if in the worst case scenario all 9 teams walk away, and it will be a bigger shame if some of them just sign because they are pushed to. All 9 teams have invested billions of dollars to be in F1, they are the ones that risk every weekend losing the life of somebody in an accident, they carry the burden of the sudden lost of a sponsor and also they are responsible to put on a show and make FOM and the promoters make money.

As they carry a lot of responsabilities they have all the right in the world to make the sporting rules, specially about budget and spending, who is the FIA to say how much a team can spend?.

I realy hope this situation is resolved for the sake of the history of F1, but if FOTA wants to make a new champiomship, i will gladly jump the F1 boat and go wherever FOTA goes and i think many fans will do the same...


Wow. Looks to be a pretty thin grid out there next year then. I, for one, hope that they do break away if this is Mosley's stand. I am tired of all the politicking.


Looks to me Max or FIA in large is the only thing that needs replacing in this sport. The sensible thing for Bernie the Formula 1 rights holder to do would be to go with the teams and continue under the same name and the rules FOTA wants. And let FIA do their own series called Formula Budget Cap, or Formula GP3 as was already suggested. Does he want to save the sport or reinvent it?


This is going really bad, I think we should enjoy this season as much as we can, cause next season will probaly be the borest.

Mammalian Verisimilitude

Well, this all sounds nicely like F1 Armageddon...


what a sore loser is Max.....

He thinks FIA signing the new concorde agreement in few weeks is unrealistic but wants the FOTA teams to cut down their work force by 90% in 6 months.....
We as fans cannot let a dictator like him do whatever he wants.. Its high time FOTA boycotts couple of races to show how it will be without the manufacturing teams....
Seriously, has F1 become a joke?? looks like anybody can lodge an application... Isn't there a standard? Brabham, Lola, Litespeed, USF1, Epsilon Euskadi... These losers will stay for one or two seasons and withdraw when they run 2 or 3 seconds off the pace of the top car....
Max says "F1 will die without new teams".. Mr. Max if you are hearing us....What more do you want than a finale of 2007 & 2008? your rule changes this year has made f1 boring..... Not to take anything away from Jenson and Brawn... we are not seeing any fight.. this season is just becoming like 2004... Atleast last year we had 3 teams fighting....
Don't understand where this is all going to end???


Isnt it a bit tiresome continuingly hearing what max mosley wants?
I have been going to silverstone for a over a decade now, each year i look forward to seeing great cars and great drivers and hoping for sucess for my favourite drivers( damon then jenson). Last years rain effected race was one of the best ,with a brilliant drive from lewis.
I have never once gone to silverstone to see max mosley.
He is the referee not the main event.

F1 is not max mosley's . Its the teams and the fans! The teams generate and spend thier monies to bring their cars to the track and the fans spend lots of hard earned cash to enjoy watching them race.

What does max mosley bring to the racing?

On a race weekend the fans would miss their favourite team if it wasnt there. Mr Eclestone and the teams would miss the fans if they werent there but i dont think anyone would miss max if he wasnt there.


OK, It's official guys (and girls).

Mosley has lost it.

Max has many other championships to fall back on - WRC, Formula Two, WTCC, Karts, all the regional Rally championship (eg Asia Pacific Rally Championship) etc, so I don't think he cares to be honest. What does he gain from F1? A bit of publicity, unwanted recently because he has some extremely weird fantasties...

“I say, if you want to make the rules, then go an organise your own championship. Formula 1 is ours, we make the rules. We’ve started 60 years ago and we will continue like that.”

And I hope ALL the teams and manufacturers to just that. I have lost patience for Max and his over control of the sport. The way I see it, I haven't supported Formula 1 for long enough, I'm only 18, and I would love it to continue for many more years to come, innovating new ways for technology, saving lives with road car technology etc.

Countless lives have been saved by Traction Control and it's various derivatives, and their are many more innovations which have been provided by Formula 1 over the years which has improved everyones lives - a recent issue of F1 Magazine had an article on everything which had been developed by F1 teams.

Flywheel KERS is the next thing for the world to enjoy on cars and public transport, and I wish Williams all the success in developing that technology for the market.

Bottom line: Mosley is killing Formula 1. I wonder how much support he has within the FIA now...I hear it's still pretty strong...I guess the board at the FIA is made up of similarly power hungry minded people.

All the best from Western Australia


Darryl Williams

Wow. F1 is officially dead. I can't believe it. Oh, well, at least I will save money on my TV package next year - I will be dropping it as the sports channel that carries F1 is the only reason I pay a bracket up.

Mosely you are a fool, and I am no fan of your new series, which is missing the great names of F1 - Ferrari, McLaren, Tyrrell/Brawn, Stewart/Red Bull, Minardi/STR, Sauber/BMW, Jordan/Force India.

All this political BS is just a turn off. I am done if Measley Mosely doesn't back down and allow the current teams to continue.


This is pretty amazing - I've read elsewhere that N.Technology has also signed up, so we now have 10 teams - N.Technology, Prodrive, Lola, USF1, Team Superfund, Epsilon-Euskadi, Campos Meta 1, Litespeed, Williams, and Ferrari - confirmed for next year's grid. Well, maybe "confirmed" is a bit of an overstatement.

I think the FOTA teams really shot themselves in the foot here by following Ferrari. I don't think Max will budge. Ferrari has their contract, so they've got nothing to lose - they'll have an opportunity to race whether they like it or not! Everybody followed them and gambled everything away. In retrospect, that sure seems pretty dumb to me.

For fun, I'll speculate a bit here: I think Toyota, BMW and Renault will use this as an opportunity to get out altogether. They have two excuses - the rule changes and the economy. That would leave only Red Bull, Toro Rosso, McLaren-Mercedes, BrawnGP, and Force India. The remaining 5 FOTA teams wouldn't have enough resources combined and won't be able to attract anyone else to start a new series with no budget limitations. So, I am guessing Red Bull and Toro Rosso will bow out, and McLaren, Brawn and Force India will try to get those 3 remaining team openings, assuming they are still available. We'll end up with a 26 car grid powered by Cosworth, Mercedes, or Ferrari.


Mosley's arrogance in continuing to force the issue is astounding, but his actions are no longer even slightly surprising. To be honest, I've been fully expecting him to gleefully run head-on into continued confrontation. Every existing team - even Williams - has indicated disapproval with his planned rule changes. I think having been told that every current team would guarantee their participation through 2012, the majority of fans would agree with the rules staying as they are as well.

Mosley's suggestion that the Concorde agreement can't possibly be signed by June 12th very much conflicts with the fact that he feels it perfectly acceptable to change the championship rules so radically and expect the teams to just sign on with equally little notice.

First this was supposedly about reducing costs to "stop more teams quitting", now when we know nobody's quitting it is about "needing new blood". What it very clearly isn't is about what's best for F1 or motorsport in general - it's just about proving that Mosley's in charge and the team bosses are his personal puppet show.

It is high time the fans and teams spoke up through their FIA member organizations and insisted that Mosley leave his post as he previously promised to do, at the earliest opportunity. It is vital that F1's future not be decided by somebody's personal ego trip. We need an FIA President who understands that his role is not to play power games, but to further the interests of the sport and those participating in it.


I should add one point to my previous comment.

Max, you might bear something in mind. Should the FOTA teams start their own championship with rules similar to those F1 currently runs under, you can guarantee that I will be watching their series - and not F1.

F1 is about the teams, the drivers, technological competition, and a fair and sensible structure of rules for all to race under. The name of the sport and its locales are of little importance in the bigger picture. I'd sooner watch F1-like teams, cars and drivers racing on unfamiliar tracks, than I would watch GP2-like teams, cars and drivers racing at a mixture of revised historic tracks plus Tilke's latest efforts.

In fact, I doubt I'll bother watching the latter, even if FOTA doesn't offer up a rival series. I have an inkling I'm not alone in feeling that way.


Hi James, i might have missed something but if Ferrari have a legal aggreement to compete why could they not veto the rules, i thought there right to veto was part of the same agreement.



The teams would also be aware of a situation like this, & I am positive that FOTA has taken a stand, no matter the consequences...Lets see how things shape up!


I like Max.

For whatever reason, he's taking the sport back to the 70's with multiple odd teams dropping in and out, REAL design innovation taking place and maybe - gasp - cars which differ in looks and design philosophy.

I can quite understand why everyone fed on the 'we must have major manufacturers in the sport' is panicking. The poor souls can't envisage the sport without Renault, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, et al., cluttering up the grid with their corporate-speak and follow-what-everyone-else-does design 'innovation'

GO MAX!!!!


“I say, if you want to make the rules, then go an organise your own championship. Formula 1 is ours, we make the rules. " - the problem is they make rules CHANGE every time come up with silly rules and get fans, teams and everyone confused. Maybe they had done a great job for 55-58 years but not recently. Does he really want big teams to leave? I doubt it.


here's a man on a powertrip. how much is all this his way to secure his future with the FIA? how much is it "we" make the rules and how much is it "I"? is mosley the FIA? when shall the fans start a petition to stand by the sport and the FOTA?


IF all the new teams do actually turn up with two cars each, Mosley will have far too many cars even without the FOTA teams and pre-qualifying will have to be written back into the rules.
(The rules can now be re-written twice per month)

Leaving most of the grid in the pits DNQ, will rapidly cause withdrawals as the money disappears when sponsors opt out, making the entry a fruitless exercise. The only way around this is to raise the number of cars allowed on the track, but the restriction was for safety, so can it become safe to have twice the number of cars on track?

Max seems to disregard "his" own rules as he pleases.

It is unlikely that all the new entrants will make it to the start line anyway for many reasons, but mostly money.

If the FOTA teams do through some last minute miracle, stay in next yearn the 2010 rules as currently written (this week's version) allow a solution, however that will mean a two tier championship. Other race series have two tier championships, it just means more cups to buy. (they also have 55 cars on the grid)


Even if you don't like this guy, you surely have to respect and admire him, he's so strong in his position...


If I recall, the FIA didn't give the teams much warning of the budget cap plan either. This whole thing is an entirely irrational way to go about making rule changes, no wonder FOTA is questioning the governance of the sport.


Goodness me! Doesn't Max sound just like Jean Marie Balestre?


I'm getting sick and tired of Ferarri's constant hissy fit foot stamping, threats and bullying. Frankly they should leave if they don't like it. It will be sad but we'll all get over it and F1 will continue successfully without them. I for one have been thoroughly enjoying the racing between the other teams. I suspect the level of competition to be just as fierce if not more so without them...

Alistair Blevins

“It’s quite clear that they want to slow down the process of application to the championship so that it will be too late for the new teams.”

This could also be a FOTA statement regarding the FIA.

The FIA must have known that without an inclusive process the current batch of F1 teams would not accept a seemingly arbitrary set of rules.

I dearly hope FOTA hold their ground.

Question is, has Williams undermined the whole operation with their breaking ranks?

It's difficult to blame them - with an agreement to compete, a contract for F2 cars, and no other business but F1 racing they are now in the pocket of the FIA.

Philippe de Barsy

Max Mosley will be remembered as the grave-digger of motor sports.

The present situation is the result of years of the worse possible management!


I fervently hope that the core-business racing teams, those whose business is only to go racing, sign up for Formula One and desist from politicking. Brawn GP especially. But it doesn't look too hopeful.

As for the teams who are only there to sell family cars (and sugar water), let them decide for themselves one way or the other, I am getting to the stage where I couldn't care less. And Ferrari - their antics disgust me, away from the track at least. Toyota, well they are now little better than a poodle to Ferrari, but it does distract attention from their perennial incompetence on track.

If Ferrari really want to wreck F1 simply because they can't get their own (spoilt) way for once, they couldn't be doing a better job. At least they look like succeeding at something this year, even if it isn't winning championships.


I understand the FIA could contractually force Ferrari enter for the season, but can Ferrari just not turn up on race day, or will that incur more penalties?

Road of Bones

Good work James - first with the news, as usual!

So Max has called their bluff (pretty unexpected really!) - do you think FOTA will hold their nerve?

What will Bernie have to say about all this? Does he have any leverage left between FOTA & the FIA?

This isn't over yet, methinks...


It seems Max Mosley is not really interested in cost-cutting, just getting his own way.


So what happens if FOTA and Bernie suddenly show up with a signed Concorde agreement? Will Max eat his words and give in to the FOTA demands?

Dennis Dithmar

I wrote something similar at Joe's blog, but I really think that this is a vital point in all this.

Max Mosley is heading this campaign, because he wants to protect Formula One from teams disappearing from the grid. And yet while the finance crisis could send two or three teams out of Formula One, there is a much bigger threat right now.

Max Mosley's pride.

That pride could see nine teams disappear. Doesn't that sort of neutralize Mosley's own arguments as to why he is doing all this? Is there ever any room for the suggestion in his mind, that he might be wrong? That other people's proposals could actually work better than his proposals?

Thing is - there is no doubt in my mind that there isn't that room in Mosleys mind. I have no idea if it's an ego thing or pride or whatever. That's irrelevant, but we all know by now how he will react. I have seen no reports in the press, talking about Mosleys fantastic abillities to reach a good compromise, but a lot of reports talking about his stance. In this case as in all other cases.

So let me boil all this down to some sort of conclusive questioning:

- Would there be a crisis in F1 at the moment, if Max Mosley wasn't involved?

- Is it your impression that Max Mosley tends to make gaps bigger or smaller when he gets involved in cases in general?

- Who is most important to the sport, Ferrari or Mosley?

- Who is the biggest threat to the sport, the financial crisis or Max Mosley?


Look at this from the position of a outsider, someone from the corporate world thinking of investing in F1, and ask yourself, is the series well run ?

Does Max's "negotiating" with the teams make you confident that the sport is controlled by the best people possible ? ... .or is it a grotesque mess presided over by two bickering old men with egos larger than most galaxies ?

You could invest in Football of course, it is very well run in comparison and none of the people in charge have personal problems with any of the participants that they allow to affect their judgement, let alone inspire entire rule changes in order to knife an enemy in the back.

Max and Bernie are killing F1 with their own power struggles and vendettas.


I believe Max Mosley is now in the most powerful position. Reading the Autosport website there are eight new teams signed up (this does not include March). Williams have signed up and Ferrari legally have to compete. This makes a grid of 10 teams. Ultimately McLaren, Brawn and Force India will have to sign up as racing is their business and the teams are headed by people who have a passion for the sport. The big question mark lies over where Red Bull and Torro Rosso will end up. Ultimately BMW, Renault and Toyota could be the teams left out in the cold. On the track they have not delivered a great deal this season and I would never trust their intentions anyway. Just as with Honda whilst the team personnel such as Theissen, Briatore and Howett could be saying one thing the board could be thinking a completely different scenario.


do you believe that 12 June will see some kind of closure to this and that we will have a good idea of who's racing next season? Or will this just rumble on and on? I would say that there is no likelihood of a breakaway championship.

Thomas in Adelaide

Tell me, what's to stop Ferrari sticking Kimi in a wheelbarrow and saying "this is our 2010 entry"?


Follow the money...Just a question.
If all this ends up in crash and burn and the debt cannot be paid, who currently qwns that debt, because the banks have sold it on?

Could this be a master plan to deliver F1 VERY cheaply to the current Debt holder, remembering that Bernie seems to have very little equity in the current arrangement.

I dunno, it all seems odd and smoke and mirrors. All the players are masters of the 2nd and 3rd agendas and the off track competition is far fiercer and more brutal than on it, for remember that famous saying, it is not just about the money, to these guys it is ALL about the money, and there are billions involved.


F1 is nothing without the big teams, the Teams know it, the TV bosses know it and the FIA begrudgingly know it. If F1 is to continue to be the height of motorsport the FIA need to start doing a bit more consultation and a little less dictation otherwise they'll be left with A1 GP mk2....


How to ruin F1 and turn it into laughing stock all over the world. Well done to FIA and FOTA for achieveing this.


I am surprised to hear the tone of the language that Max Moseley is using.

“I say, if you want to make the rules, then go an organise your own championship. Formula 1 is ours, we make the rules. We’ve started 60 years ago and we will continue like that.”

I know that he is a tough negotiator, but that seems almost incendiary, as if he wants to cause controversy and force the teams to make a move.

James, is this how he always operates? I don't remember this level of antagonism in 2005 when the teams threatened to break away last time.

All in all I have to say that I agree with Max's stance if not his tactics.


Is this the same swiss magazine that broke the story about Brabham lodging an entry?. The March and Brabham entries have to be complete red hearings considering max and bernies history with these outfits.

This is all becoming a bit of a yawn now.


I dont think Ferrari can be held to their contract.

I think legally it would be declared unenforceable as the sport Max wants them to take part in no longer materially represents the sport to which they signed up. Similar to a contract of employment which would not be enforceable if your employer materially and detrimentally changed your working condtitions - even if those working conditions were not part of the original contract.

Also if the FIA/Bernie were to take Ferrari to court they would have to make a legal ruling on the Veto as well. Ferrari would argue that the FIA/Bernie have already broken the contract by denying them rights guaranteed within it.

You must remeber that the WMSC turned down Ferrari's attempt at an injunction but only on the basis that contractual maters are not in their jurisdiction - they must be decided in a court of law - exactly where they would end up if FIA/Bernie sued Ferrari for breach of contract.

I say FOTA go and set up your own championship with Silverstone, France, Rome, Indy, Canada, Australia (who would be happy not to have to have a night race), Austria. All of these circuits have lost their F1 race already so have nothing to lose by signing up with FOTA for significantly lower fees...


I think nobody can be forced to race if he doesn't want to - not a driver, but not a team either. The question is only how much it would cost Ferrari to break that contract and get out and if it would be worth for them.

Like some people before me, I am at the point where I hope that the FOTA breaks away from the FIA and makes its own series without Bernie, without Max.


What a lot of folks seem to forget is that the FIA don't only run F1

The FIA run many formula of racing - all of which have been subject to budget restrictions and loss of entries over the past years

Mosley and Co. whilst not being my favourite people - are trying in their own way to make the sport more affordable for teams and sponsors in a time of economic hardship

Myself - I cannot understand how manufacturer teams cannot see the benefits of running to a lower budget at ths moment in time

We see regularly - especially this year - many many empty seats in the stands - even at the materialistic paradise that is Monaco

Perhaps with the budget cuts and the all round cost cutting tickets will become affordable and folks may actually be in a position to go and watch a live race

I know F1 is supposedly the pinnacle of the sport - but the rules on track and the stewarding are the areas that need to be looked at more closely as they are the things that are spoiling real racing

GP2 and even Formula Renault produce real wheel to wheel racing that isn't decided some days later in the stewards office

Who cares what cars are on the grid - as long as they are competitive and allowed to race and I mean race - I for one will still watch the spectacle!


Problem with this logic is that you want to go back to the '70s. In the 2010s... That never works.


I'm with Max!Who do these manufacturers think they are telling the FIA how to run their championship?I'm fed up with the current lot-Toyota have done nothing in F1,Williams are washed up,Force India are a joke.Lets get the new boys in!USF1,Prodrive,Epsilon Euskadi and Campos all look credible to me and Nick Wirth's connections and manufacturing capabilities mean he's not a no-hoper.Roll on June 12th!!


For Daryl Williams to list the "great names of F1" including Brawn, Red Bull, Force India, STR, just serves to illustrate just how little F1 trades on it's own history, and how quickly it moves forward. The Manufacturer era has brought us a marketing led series, and produced many of the things which fans dislike about modern F1. Why do people think that so many races are now held at new tracks in new markets, with ticket prices far beyond the reach of ordinary folk? I for one will not miss the manufacturers when they go, they excercise far too much control over the sport, and are angling for more. Does anybody really miss Honda? Anybody who thinks that a breakaway series will be better is dreaming, as the manufacturers will never be able to agree a set of rules between them, never mind organise a meaningful championship and will end up mired in the same politicking as F1 finds itself. It seems extraordinary to me that the big teams are arguing for their right to keep spending ridiculous amounts of money, and that so many people here see this as a positive stand against the FIA. I hope that the rumours are true, that Renault, BMW and Toyota are simply using this as a way to exit without losing face, but I fear that Mosely is right, that they are going to string it out in order to make it unfeasible for new to teams to enter. That way, perhaps the value of their team and it's facilities stays high. We do know from recent experience that they will drop F1 like a stone when it suits them.



Let's just all step back for one moment and look at the situation.

If the teams leave to start their own championship - it won't work.

If the FIA accept all of the new teams and try and force Ferrari to compete F1 will be a shadow of what it is today.

More importantly is the human cost of a massive scale down in spending from the four/five big teams. If they instantly cut their teams by 200 members each there's going to be something in the order of 1,000 team personnel looking for work, could they be used by the new teams? Perhaps not if the timing of such changes isn't looked at a little closer.

F1, FOTA and the FIA are being very shortsighted if they don't try and find an answer to this very real issue.

Would it not be the preferred option to accept perhaps two new teams for next years championship with an interim budget cap and then followed in 2011 with the full budget cap and acceptance of the remaining teams? This way (Now I'm not a trade union member - I run my own business) the talent in F1 can be moved around and accommodated in the 14/16 teams for 2011.

In essence let's have some stability in F1 and let's go racing. the '06, '07 and '08 championships were great to watch. This year isn't in the same league... and I'm English and a fan of Button.


F1 needed a shake-up and now we have it. Who knows, something really good may come of it... maybe two series, with very different rules, and the spectators will decide. Single seater motor racing (i do not use the term F1 on purpose) does not belong to FIA, or FOTA, Bernie or Max, ultimately it belongs to us fans!

Let us walk away from what we do not like. Stop going to the races, end our pay-tv deals. Couple of years like that and believe you me someone will figure out a set of rules we like. Because the fan base is there, its huge and its the only factor that no-one -still- gives a toss about!

I for one am fed up after decades of pit-lane overtaking and photocopied cars.

F1 is just a part of society and our marketing/company driven society needs a re-write. Everything in our life being commercially driven, as opposed to following the rules of quality/user appeal.

Motor racing was legendary when people in it were not even paid, or paid very little. No advertising, little money, but loads of ingenuity and the stands were full and in Italy school lessons were held at night so the kids could see the passage of the Mille Miglia cars. The passion was there and it still is I think.

Let it all fall to pieces now and restart again. As in nature, an era might end, but a new one will begin with new protagonists and new heroes.

Personally, I would love a series with advertising BANNED on the cars (and even no ads on the track), a strict budget cap and all proceeds coming exclusively from tv rights/ticket sales . This way the tracks where people really love to watch F1 would quickly emerge (no more idiotic races in deserted deserts, or car parks with no overtaking) and a rebirth of great corners, great tracks made for great drivers (Spa, Spa, Spa!) would take place.

Added bonus, we could watch beautiful elegant machines instead of the horrid kansas city whores we have to look at now. (Gorgeous, clean looking Brawn GP excluded)


My advice to Max, would be Oliver Cromwells advice to the Scottish Kirk.
"From the bowel of Christ I beseech thee, think again, you might be mistaken"!.


It's not just the teams at stake it's the drivers too...the new teams can't afford them! The £40m cap excludes driver salaries so the big teams can still pay the likes of Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen the kind of money they expect to race. Will the drivers race for the lesser teams? what about thier contracts?

I don't want to see 22 no name numpties driving about who i've never heard of!! I want to see Lewis get back in the game and battle Alonso with Jenson fighting right alongside.

We've all built up an odd kind of relationship with these guys as we follow their F1 careers, we like some drivers and love to hate others, it's a big part of the sport. Are these guys going to drive for lola and prodrive? for peanuts? I sense a lot of spare seats for budding GP2 drivers to come through with personal sponsorship....i'm sure they can drive, but do we all want to spend the time to get to know them like we know the current crop of drivers?


knoxploration: I couldn't agree more with both your previous comments - you've summed up my thoughts and feelings on this situation, exactly.

Mosley really doesn't seem to care about the damage he is doing the sport. The teams are the sport, not him.

It really is becoming a farce, a laughing stock, a total embarrassment.


I don't think the "veto" is really what people believe it is.


James, do you think that many (if any) of the new entries are backed by existing teams who are covering themselves. For example Superfund states that they have close links with any existing F1 team. Do you think any of the FOTA teams will have gone down this route?


What can be said that hasnt already been mentioned in the previous comments.. Mosley is incredibly arrogant [mod]. Is F1 for the FIA - or is it for the fans? Well, the fans want Ferrari, McLaren and all the other big teams in F1. I cant believe how stubborn [mod] he is.

And to think I used to kinda like the guy. [mod] I supported him during the sex-scandal. Now I wish they would have made him leave. [mod]


Personally I would be more interested in a new break-away formula.

The FIA's rules this have been so successfull that we see so much more over taking and less money spent due to rule clarity.
What a load of rubbish, why follow rule makers who constantly show they do not understand the sport.


Well I for one find this all very exciting. I've never been so interested in F1 and i've been a huge fan all my life! At first I found the idea of a break away series demonstrable, but now i think it will be great to see to series competing for fans. I for one will watch both!!! It'll only last a few years and then both series will amalgamate and F1 will be as strong as ever.


History repeats... IRL/CART split all over again!

In the ends ChampCar/CART dies and IRL remains as interesting as watching a flower pot (mind you the flowers might win). Anyone watched (or cared to) the Indy 500? You get my point.

As mentioned in another post a few days ago, NASCAR can't start having some serious thoughts about introducing their series in Europe and Asia.

This is crazy. Max won't let go of his attitude (hasn't he learnt a thing or two after the sex scandal he was involved in?) and teams just won't be told to make most of their staff redundant.

Should a breakaway series happen, F1 will have lost all credibility. I can think of Ferrari running a team with the bare minimum to be on the grid with cars not painted in red as well as going racing in GP1 (the breakaway series name).

The issue with the new series is that it's appeal won't last and it will die eventually.

Sooooooooo... Thank you so much Max! You may have finally found a way to kill the sport. Well done.


FOTA doesn't have to start a new championship: they already have one - Ferrari own A1......


FOTA doesn't have to start a new championship: they already have one - Ferrari own A1.....


Totally agree.

And didn't BMW and toyota start at the back of the Monaco grid. So much for their investment and 'innovation'.


Hey ro,
The reason why people are passionate about Renault, Toyota and BMW being part of F1 is because they can identify with a team should they own one of their cars.


Funny how max says the FIA makes the rules, in circumstanecs where they privately gave ferrari the power of veto.


Don't the rules for 2010 say you're not allowed to enter a 2009 car?


Have to say Max is right on this one. DOn't like the championship? go and do your own one! Can't argue with that!


I think Max knows that the other eight teams won't feel that enthralled by the idea of racing in the Ferrari Formula Series!


With all the arguments for and against the cap most people are looking at this through the window of there tv's.
As somebody who has worked in the sport for a number of years and has worked from small teams through to a major manufacturer team if you were to see it from the inside you could see that the sport cannot be justified at the spending levels.

The amount of cash at these big teams is obscene compared to the smaller teams, we've all ready got a 2 tear system due to cash flow alone which people seem to be missing in all this.

Brawn are good this year but there car was developed by honda and the use of 4 wind tunnels across the globe and masses of development and cash. Not to take anything away from brawn, but if it it was down to there budget alone i am pretty certain it wouldn't be where it is today as the rate of development is down to how much cash and facilities you have to push your designs.

For the sport and the ability for all teams to compete on a level playing field the budget cap is the best thing for F1, look at all the new teams that are looking to get in? it stirs excitment in an industry which was looking down in the recession, small new teams with that personal touch not 800 staff 'factories' pushing out 5 cars a season. Who would have thought of all these new entries 2 months ago?

Perhaps i've talked myself out of a job when this is all done and wrapped up on June the 12th? whatever happens i'm sure common sense in a world which seems to have lost it will prevail!


A bit like Adelaide 2009 you mean?


It's nice to say we'll watch a new FOTA organised series instead of budget capped F1 with unknown teams; but in reality we'll watch what the TV networks broadcast.

We all like to put the hate on Bernie, but would be a huge task to organize and promote a new unknown race series.

It's more than just open governance and fair rules to race under. There will need to be promotion, extensive TV coverage, and world class race venues.

Does anyone think Monaco will follow FOTA and host an event under a breakaway series, or will it be like CART without the Indianapolis 500 in North America?

Does anyone think TV networks around the world will pay multi million dollar broadcast fees and set aside decent timeslots for the Formula Unlimited Budget World Championship?

There's a reason Ferrari threatened to go to LeMans.

I'm afraid that if Max doesn't blink, Formula One will have a completely different look next year - with a silly season unlike anything we've ever witnessed.


Max Mosley has good taste for neckties, and we have to admire his stand. He has a point of view and defends it.
This is a situation in wich everyone involved has a valid point of view.
All I can say is that I would like to see people racing on beautiful historic tracks.


Thank you for killing the only sport I love, Mr Mosley.


I'm in agreement with Travis R - If those big car manufactors feel the need to walk away, let them, it is they who have tipped the balance in recent years from sport to business...F1 is a SPORT. Shall we go racing, or do we need to run it by The Board first. Frank Williams has done everyone favour here - let it be known he is here to race cars and win a championship, not sell cars and polish a brand image. Ferrari; slightly complicated, they are a mixture of Car maker for very rich people and romantic racing heritage brand - they are always welcome, and really ought to stay. McLaren will be in the same boat as Ferrari I suppose.


Assume that FOTA 9 does breakaway and form it's own series, and that the top drivers like Alonso, Kimi, Massa all go with them (as you would expect them to) - what do you think would happen to the major CORPORATE sponsors currently involved in F1?

Would they prefer to have their names on the side of new/unknown/unexperienced teams like MTechnology, Epsilon and Litespeed? Or would they jump ship to the new FOTA series and have their names on a car run by proven teams, who they have dealt with before?

And I can see many people who have funded these new operations (they can't actually be called teams as many don't even have staff) thinking twice about being involved in a competition that doesn't have any household names except Williams...


Max,I have three words for you.GO TO H**L.Man you surely destroyed F1 on the whole.

I need to see your face if FOTA forms a separate League and start succeeding.(They'll surely will).

Is there someone to stop this stupidity James?Can Bernie do it?


Can anyone tell me who will fund this breakaway series that many here seem to think is the new holy grail? Because no sponsor, Television station, track or specatator is going to pay F1-like money for those teams / that championship.
It will be worse than a budget cap. Only Ferrari have their own funds to survive that for a few years. The other teams don't.

FOTA is going to loose whatever they choose to do.


All parties are playing a game, in the end I predict all the current teams will sign up with the exeption as James predicts of Toro Rosso,

The real "fun" this summer is going to be driver line ups, very few drivers have contracts for 2010, I think it will shape up like this:

Number Driver Team Engine
1 Button Brawn Mercedes / Cosworth
2 Räikkönen
3 Vettel Red Bull BMW / Renault / Mercedes
4 Senna
5 Alonso Ferrari Ferrari
6 Kubica
7 Hamilton Mclaren Mercedes
8 Glock
9 Massa Toyota Toyota
10 Kobayashi
11 Grosjean Renault Renault
12 Sato
14 Webber BMW Sauber BMW
15 Klien
16 Hulkenberg Williams Toyota / Cosworth
17 Sutil
18 Luizzi Force India Mercedes
19 Sato
20 Di Grassi March - N Tec (formally Toro Rosso) Ferrari / Cosworth
21 Hartley
22 Kovalainen Aston Martin - Prodrive Cosworth
23 Webber
24 Patrick (Danica) Lola USGPE Cosworth
25 Andretti
26 Trulli Brabham Campos Renault / Cosworth
27 Carrol


In my opinion FOTA and especially Ferrari are getting way too big for their boots. Ferrari reputedly already get 80 mil per year extra (JUST for being Ferrari) and have a right of technical veto that no other team gets. Then they laughably shoot down this optional budget cap idea under the guise as "same rules for all". I find it somewhat hypocritical.

Basically the big guns in FOTA didn't like the idea of a team with a smaller budget outsmarting them and their being unable to spend their way out of trouble. So they threw their toys out of the pram and tried to blackmail the FIA into changing the rules.

Now it seems that plan has backfired on them.

By my calculations we have at least 9 legal entries for the 2010 championship (counting Ferrari and Williams):
USGPE, Lola, Prodrive, Litespeed, Team Superfund, N.Technology, Brabham, Ferrari, Williams.

Acceptance is at the FIA's discretion ofc, but if they are all accepted the this means that with 13 slots available there will be only 4 slots left for the remaining 8 FOTA teams once they realise that their joint conditional entry is not binding and not legal.

And I hear rumours of a few more new teams with late entries.

My, June 12th will be very interesting - I am thinking of booking the day off work and buying some popcorn.... ;p


Bernie should do everything possible to keep the teams threatening to pull out of formula 1. Would be a loss of the great driving talent, the likes of Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso, 2 of the best drivers in the world, if they were not to be in f1 next year. I could not imagine them driving for any of the new teams entering formula 1 next season. With the new teams next year f1 will look like a joke.


I think that this is a very pertinent point. I've been saying this for some time. I'm very sympathetic to people who've been employed by teams as the numbers have swollen to 600+, but it's not necessary to go racing with that many people.


It's too early to say that. These are merely proposals at the moment. Wait until June 12th to say the things you are saying


If FOTA will loose this battle it wont be good for F1 as it is (was) great opportunity to change something in this sport. Mosley winning means it will continue, will be calm for a while, and then it will return in 2-3 years and will be even more destructive for the sport. And if FOTA teams will quit - it will be really Maxs Formula - there will be no force in F1 capable of saying no to this crazy man.
So. I am with FOTA.


F1 will be a better place without road car manufacturers screwing up the basic idea of what F1 is at it's best.

The sport has been badly corrupted and almost crippled by the manufacturers agenda which sees F1 simply as a vehicle ( literally ! ) for their marketing departments to exploit.

It's interesting how some posts ridicule new teams credentials....just shows how little F1 history they know.

I remember a young driver who set up his own team...his name was Bruce Mclaren, or was it Jack Brabham, or John Surtees, or Enzo Ferrari ?

Mosely is arrogant and confrontational. But he's also bloody clever, loves F1 and it's history and whatever else you can say about him he has b*lls !

He also happens to be right.


You can't have 60s or 70s back. Its XXI century and financial crisis - trying to "reset" F1 now is quite risky.
Both FIA and FOTA see the need to change, so they should sit and talk on F1 future, how to make it better, how to secure it and so on - instead "bloody clever" Mosley spotted danger to his powerful position and is on the way to eliminate the thread no matter what. That is how I see it from here, what is happening behind the curtain = cant know that.


Totally agree will Leo Allen on this.

Whats with all this brand idolatry?

How stupid are Mclaren, et al for siding with Ferrari? Ferrari's brand identity is "extravagance & luxury", they cannot identify with cutting costs.

F1 has become a vehicle, for mega corporations to advertise!

I watch F1, for the outstanding engineering, and the bravery and sheer determination of the drivers.

Go Max!



I may be wrong (and I may be making it sound like some kind of pot-boiler mystery novel), but, to me, what we're seeing is the manifestation of politicking gone awry. And it's all driven by the following:

1) I believe that Max secretly wants most of the manufacturers to go away. Why?
2) Because without BMW, Renault & Toyota, (and to a lesser extent Red Bull) Ferrari would be isolated.
3) And because he's effectively rid himself of Ron Dennis & broken McLaren's culture & spirit, Max now wants to do the same to Montezemolo & Ferrari
4) Which would make him lord and king of the F1 world.
5) But, more importantly, being lord & kind would feed his hungry ego and perhaps even satisfy his unending need for the revenge that he desperately seeks as a result of the sex scandal.

And the funny thing is that, I believe Mosley's rationale is correct. There needs to be a trimming of costs and there needs to be an influx of new teams. So, while I agree with his rationale, what I object to are his tactics.

It will make for an interesting few days, won't it?


I find it funny, max says a new Concorde Agreement cannot be signed by June 12. But is was he who wanted a secure future for the sport. Anything can be done. I have said this consistently the Show, the teams racing on sunday and the fans are getting screwed. The ones that make f1 popular are being ripped of at the race and the teams are being ripped of too regarding revenue. I pray a new series starts. All the revenue can go to the teams and teams only. Not to Bernie and companies that dont care about the sport.

Any individual who has a vested interest in a company will be cautious. The FIA owns the rights but the only dollars he see are with silly fines. The teams can start a championship very quickly, f1 loses half if not 3/4 of its viewers overnight and all of a sudden, this marketing monster falls in a heap. tv networks drop f1 super quick, I cannot see the BBC showing f1 without the likes of Mclaren, Ferrari, etc etc.

A new championship will be worth over 1 billion in the first year for the teams. The trick is the 9 teams stick together.


That is a well set out criteria of assessing to invest or not.

You're right. If you approach with this criteria in mind, you'd never invest in F1.


I don't think the rear wing on a wheel barrow conforms to the regulations.


Maybe it's because I fell in love with F1 as a boy in the 70s and 80s, but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to see most of the manufacturers leave.

And let's be realistic -- most of the FOTA teams will give in, knowing that they will never, ever launch a rival series. They lack the infrastructure, the TV deal, the suitable circuits to race on. Its a non-starter.

McLaren will cave in, because McLaren ceases to exist without F1. Same with Brawn and Force India. Red Bull will not quit just as they've finally become competitive (thought I suspect they'll be down to a single team).

That leaves Ferrari, Toyota, BMW, and Renault. Anyone really think that's the core of a successful breakaway series?

Toyota is awful. BMW brings nothing to the table. Renault has quit before, and has been expected to be quit again for 3 or 4 years now.

At some point Ferrari will have to give in and stick with the FIA, and Renault probably joins it. I'd just as soon see Toyota leave and be replaced by a competent privateer. And honestly, BMW could quit and it would take three races before anyone noticed.

So, you end up with something like:

Red Bull
Force India

And maybe it's just me... but I think that looks like a pretty cool lineup.


The one thing that never ceases to amaze me in F1 is how many people take anything that any of the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone or any of the teams say in public at face value.


It's OK that it isn't the teams who should set-up all the rules, but it shouldn't be run by one man either, as it is the case now. Mosley should listen to others's suggestions sometimes, not just bring rules that he personally likes. Or does he have the stone of wisdom so that only he can be right?


I am disgusted with both sides (or is it 3 sides?) to be honest.... The FIA appears to be pushing unrealistic "rules" and a just platform for an ego from where I sit. The manufacturers are just as bad.... and while I love the red cars and their past rep, the sport would be better off without them in a lot of ways.

I grew up with F1 in the 80's (and living memory of the late 70's).... and it's not the picnic that a lot seem to remember. I feel nostalgic for those times in some ways as well but I don't think you can go back...

God 40M in those days would have bought the entire sport, all the cars and a good chunk of the pit lane babes :-). Was is more fun: If you went to a race - yeah for sure but then it didn't cost your right... er... arm to go and you could actually get close enough to actually see the cars without a telescope. Watching on TV: Sucked big time.... Not that it's great now but it's vastly better.

If there is a split series with the larger team - I will watch IF I can and that depends on the TV contracts. Would I watch a glorified GP2... Meh, maybe (I don't really follow GP2 or Cart or IRL but watch the odd race) but I would not get up in the middle of the night to watch live and might record a few races but it would not hold the interest.


Manufacturers have the right to say NO on the 40M budget cap for next season.
- Implementation of that rule is ridiculous. How would you police such a rule? What will happen at the next year? Will FIA give the trophy to another team after they've audited all the teams (Re-posting the same question from the site)?
- Losing quality skilled, dedicated and loyal staff is not ideal. For the reason, the teams are together most of the year and is FAMILY.
- A 6 month time frame to dispose of the staff? Ridiculous.
- Are not most of the manufacturers keeping their budget at the minimum. What they are we do not know. However, just like on any organization in the world (family, small businesses, an enterprise, a corporation, the likes) have budgets that they need to work on for the day/week/month/year. So why is there a need to place a cap on the budget?
- Building new technology cost more than refining and fine tuning the existing. Why do you need to alter the rules and regulations frequently? If there is a loop hole/s from the year before, cover it for the next year. Not to revamp the whole thing and ditch the old car. It would be a much more waste (I heard a team boss say somewhere along those lines).

Now let us go to the side of the FIA. I do not want to. But I need to be fair and look at their perspective.
- In light of the current world economic situation, where everyone is gloomy and tightening their belts. As an organization, FIA needs to take action immediately. (SF_V_666 - However, if they made the tickets much cheaper and available on local TV channels around the world, they could profit more by sales and marketing).
- Other people are interested to take part in the F1 series as a competitor however the current set-up of technology and experience are too steep. Hence, the words from Max. By challenging FOTA to organize their own series.
- Independent engineering teams wants to showcase their abilities. (SF_V_666 - If the best engineers are already working in F1. Who are the others? What will the contribute to the sport aside from filing up the pit garages and the grid?)
- New teams on the grid would add creativity and new ideas. (SF_V_666 - Aren't the teams following the strict rules and regulation from FIA itself. They have limited parameters to work on. It showed who interpreted the rules correctly from the get go. Brawn GP had it on the tee. Again, looking through the news during the start of the season. Some of the teams already had this idea and consulted FIA on it which they said are not viable on the current rules. They opted to turn a blind eye and forget when Brawn won the 1st grand prix in Melbourne. For the reason they want to introduce a new grid line up for 2010.)
- It would benefit the Formula 1 sport series i the long run. Lower budget cost at difficult times would help the economy. (SF_V_666 - My question is how will it. Is it not why other lower "Formula Series" are there for. Is FIA making a merge for all the formula series to be on one stage at the same race to bring the other teams, sponsors, engineers to the "BIG STAGE" which is Formula 1.)

It is obvious where I stand from the side notes I've written above. I'll go where the pursuit of engineering breakthroughs are. If FOTA has a long term plan and builds a separate series, would be watching them 100% all the way. I have watched Formula 1 races on cable the past years like it was the World Cup (Football) on every other weekend. I route for Ferrari but am amazed on they kept themselves at that level, how good of a driver is Lewis Hamilton, Ross Brawn is really really good at his job, How Sato during his or the car's best dazzles me with his ability and speed, and the new technical race tracks which makes it safer to the driver and audience.

My concern is FIA kept changing the rules every so often. That it is so hard as a viewer/avid fan to keep track on. Which ones are the correct call and who is making a huge technical leap. How will FIA and FOM grab more audiences that way. Why can't they keep it like any other sport. You have these set of rules and regulations, these are your parameters. Update the R & R because of loop holes but not change the whole thing entirely because of financial crisis or pressure from other people. Aside from that, has anyone read the past R & R and the new one on FIA's formula 1 website? Teams can't even properly design anything cause everything is too detailed and precise. I understand the safety part of the R & R but as an organization you can't dictate the whole sport.

Reserving my comments on Max Mosley's character during through all of this. Can't judge a man because I personally do not know him.


with Spa, Canada, Silverstone etc forever being threatened with the axe I suspect there could be potential for a breakaway. TV companies would be interested and I doubt they care if it is the FIA's F1 on the title or some other FOTA inspired name. I'm sure Sky and ITV would be glad to get involved if there was the option to show a rival to the BBC F1 featuring Williams et al (JA could put me right on this). The sticking point is the infrastructure.

The near universal opinion seems to be that Max is totally out of touch with the wishes of the fans and the teams. Even though there is sense and logic behind the cap his approach is what sickens me. He just seems to love being in the news. Can he be ousted?


Formula 1 is about spending to find the edge of current technology without limitation - it is a radical and contained arena so that economised technologies can be born. Placing a budget cap will certainly limit human ability to reach this edge. As for the competition and those that can not afford, it would be better to allow their partake in the competition at their own budget and if they can not reach the speeds or develop the technology without the fancy wind tunnels and simulators, well then they should not be in F1. The sport is largely about the ability to spend to reach greater heights - removing this is certainly not F1 quality, rather, the "Formula" should then be called "Econo-Lets all play-play racing F1", do the sport a favour and let the men flex their budget muscles. The old saying goes "if you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen baby".
The rules set the required budget, so they may as well then limit the required technology through this.. and spoil the sport (For some wiz kid wanna-be to take part). These guys should however rather be supported through recruitment campaigns and provided support via the FIA by collaborating them with those who can afford and support.
Why is this the first time that budgets are a problem? All technical sports, to my knowledge, are controlled by the technical rules of the game. If you can adhere to these with a 40M budget, then surely those who have 10x that should not have such an advantage?...and if they do, then revise the technical rules or congratulate them. The sport has become very technical and requires very cutting edge technological development and tools but that is natural evolution and well done to those who can puch the boundaries to grow these arenas further, such that they become available to the commercial sectors.

Ciao caio

Joaquín Correa

I thought the same thing, anyway, that's why i call them the "Mafia Scuderia" 😉


I don't think FlyWheel KERS will ever make it.

THere are several problems.
1) FlyWheels have a habit of being exceedingly dangerous when they fail. They are effectively a kinetic bomb in that scenario.

For F1 racing, where cost is not the primary concern, I'm sure they can make these safe for the required distance (1 race, 2 races). But for road going vehicles where the flywheel will spin up many times each journey, the mechanism will wear, manufacturing defects over the lifetime of the car (10/15 years, 200,000 miles), this is a major engineering concern to ensure its going to be safe.

2) As an energy storage medium they are fine, but the fact it is spinning means that it also has an impact on performance that is above and beyond its stationary mass. See a working gyroscope for why. Simply put, compared to a static KERS solution of the same mass, handling will be inferior.

3) A static KERS solution (battery/something else) does not have problems 1 or 2.

If you doubt may concerns in (1), consider that when wheels used to regularly fly off trucks because the wheel bolts became lose (now fixed with those simple coloured indicators mandated by law), those wheels would run down the road, attached to nothing, and frequently killed people and/or smashed property they hit. And they have a fraction of the mass or spinning speed of a KERS flywheel.

FlyWheel KERS in a roadcars. I doubt it.

Battery KERS? Well, in the last 2 weeks there have been mentions of improvements to battery technology that increase storage capacity by 5 to 10 times, improve lifetime by a similar amount. All thanks to nanotech and thats just the beginning. Batteries are going to increase in performance A LOT in the coming years.


Reckon Anthony Davidson should be in your list.

Quick driver, F1 experience, still young, good communicator.


I think there's a chance we could see some doubling up, yes


It would depend a lot on the TV and media package that any other series might be able to get. But I still think it's unlikely that there will be a breakaway


Very eloquently put. I think you summed up most true F1 fan's feelings.
This really underlines why Democratic presidents need terms for their tenure. Max is nothing more than the motoring world's Hugo Chaves.


Peter, this might be what its all about.
In any case, whatever happens as the outcome, lets hope for some good racing on beautiful tracks.


So you're the FOTA teams could all lose their spot next year, except Ferrari who are contractually already obliged to race?

Seems like Ferrari are leading McLaren and all the others down a path that'll lead to their own exclusion. Isn't this just a genius Italian plan to rid Ferrari of its viable competition? 😉


Interesting analysis. I'd second that.


Respect and admire? I don't think so.


James Bond, I think you are confusing "strong" with "stupidity.

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