News
Haas F1 is likely to run a yellow Ferrari-inspired livery during its debut season in Formula 1 next year, but Gene Haas has denied his outfit will a “B-team” for the Scuderia.
Speculation in the Italian newspaper, Gazzetta dello Sport, suggests that Haas F1 will use a yellow colour scheme similar to the one in Ferrari’s famous “Prancing Horse” logo. The American squad will field Romain Grosjean and Ferrari’s 2015 reserve driver, Esteban Gutierrez as its race drivers next year.
Highly respected journalist, Pino Allievi, wrote that although Haas F1’s livery is a closely guarded secret, sources indicate it will be going with yellow in 2016.
He wrote: “The colour of the car is a military secret but voices are speaking about it being the yellow that is in the Ferrari logo. In any case it’s a fascinating road for the sport.”
Haas F1’s close technical relationship with Ferrari has led it being dubbed an “American Ferrari” but Gene Haas, the squad’s owner, explained that the new team would have its own distinct identity.
He said: “I keep getting asked, ‘are you going to be Ferrari’s B-team’ and my reply is a clear ‘no’. Haas has its own identity and will have its own way of doing things. Notwithstanding that, Ferrari is an important technical partner with whom we are very happy to be working with because it gives us a short cut.”
The relationship between Ferrari and Haas F1 has been under scrutiny in recent weeks after Mercedes asked the race stewards at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix to clarify what can be done within the regulations regarding new teams entering the sport.
Mercedes was particularly keen for movement of personnel between teams, work on aerodynamics and how the control the movement of intellectual property and knowledge between people was classified in the regulations, although it did not specifically name Haas F1 or Ferrari in its enquiry.
Guenther Steiner, Haas F1’s team principal, described his team as nothing more than a “customer” to Ferrari and that all the work was carried out within the regulations.
He said: “We have done what the regulations permit. Pushing in those permitted areas in which Ferrari is authorised to come and help us – obviously the engine, suspension and some other details.
“We’re customers – we order things and we pay for them. The chassis is the work of Gian Paolo Dallara and the aerodynamics we develop in the Ferrari wind tunnel.”
Steiner and Gene Haas were also keen to point out that the team’s expectations were low ahead of its debut year, but the outfit, which reportedly has a budget of around €100m, does want to move up the grid quickly.
Steiner said: “We want to run in the midfield, mid-grid, and then progressively close up in races to where the points are.”
Haas added: “We intend to grow by degrees. In the first five years in which we race in NASCAR, we were always behind and we know how that feels. But with hard work we began to win. In Formula 1 we are new, the 2016 goal is just to learn.”
Steiner also explained that Haas F1 was a marketing venture for the Haas brand as it seeks to take advantage of F1’s global commercial scope.
He said: “We’re racing to let the world get to know the Haas automation brand. It’s a marketing operation.”
What do you think Haas F1 will achieve in 2016? Are they more than just a Ferrari “B-team”? Leave your thoughts in the comment section below
Haas F1’s preparations for its F1 debut is one of the topics discussed in the JA on F1 Season Review published 10th December at £5-99. The 52 page Souvenir Collectible features JA’s Top 5 drivers of the year, analysis of Ferrari’s revival and comparison of Lewis Hamilton’s stats with the other three time world champions.
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Yellow is the right color choice. Missing on the grid for too long.
I couldn't agree with you more ! Too many cars just look dark / black / silver / ... particularly from the head-on-pit-straight camera angles.
Sebee
DHL yellow also famous on USA racing cars.
Also in Germany with their version of Auto Breakdown Association (the name anyone?)
Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club - ADAC
ADAC? Not to be mixed up with ACDC.
Wonder if Renault have plans of using more yellow..might confuse the hell out of Grosjean
Well Romain is certanily used to causing yellow.
Every car looks better in yellow ... Even Ferraris
Could have 4 yellow cars on the grid next year if Renault opt for it also over blue.
Surely Hass will go with a colour according to the title sponsor. Coincidentally, this may be yellow.
Renault may still go blue as, historically, that is the racing colour of France.
That concept looks a lot like a Jordan
Plural of Prius is Prii..oh my.
No way Phenom991. It needs to go solid yellow. That concept totally looks like the yellow Renault with red Total accents car we had last. Absolutely look alike.
dw22, F1 has a challenged future any way you slice it. Might as well differentiate now and define what it wants to be decade from now (when were driving mostly electrics); a loud petrol based motorsport spectacular. Instead of fake green hybrid or electric series - which are the other options.
If we were having a discussion and we didn't agree, do I pound you in the face with my fists and legs until you are knocked out like UFC? It's just not the way things are, right? That doesn't mean I don't want to watch that, and Dana knows it well. Even though UFC is not the way things are in real life, it exists and is extremely successful. F1 doesn't need to reflect automotive commuting realities. It should in fact be the exact opposite. If I want to see hybrids, I'll sit at starbucks and watch Priuses (plural? ) drive by. I don't want to see that. We don't want to see that. If we did, WEC would be more successful than F1 a decade ago. I want an automotive version of MMA fighters pounding the hell out of each other and pushing petrol extremes. I want the sound and "muscle" that goes with it. I'm not alone.
I quite like this concept, distinctive.
https://carloscastella.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ywevlc8.jpg
Sebee - why does engine noise matter? aren't there many more things that need fixing more than the noise? You are in danger of sounding like a dinosaur....
Renault's colors are black, yellow and white, but a title sponsor can change all of that/
Yup, quite possible.
For a long time there was no yellow, and now there will be too much yellow.
For a long time there was engine noise, and now there is no engine noise.
Just the way it is in F1, I guess.
The blue was only on past Renault cars due to Mild Seven sponsorship, since that's a non-factor now I'm hoping for traditional black and yellow bumblebee colours too.
When will HAAS introduce an American supercar?
Most of the deaths in Indy have to do with the nature of the circuits that they run on than the aero kits. If F1 ran on high-speed banked ovals there would be similar statistics.
Never. They will however, sell you the CNC systems to build the supercar.
What worries me the most about HAAS is that they went with Dallara to design and fabricate their chassis. Dallara has failed miserable on any every prior attempt at F1. Worse, just think IndyCar, especially the initial IndyCar chassis and how poorly it did in accidents. I wish they would've partnered with Panoz, some ALMS fabricators, or even Ferrari on this too (remember all the grief about Toro Rosso and RedBull sharing designs when they were starting out?).
I don't think it's a matter of "enough cash" when it comes to Dallara. They own IndyCar and CART before that (when CART was finally going to a Panoz chassis, that series tanked).
I don't want an argument, but simply put, "Which do you prefer? F1 or American IndyCar?"
I have an even better idea: let's take 4 or 5 of the best IndyCar and F1 teams/drivers, and have them race each other, on a road course and on an oval. I feel very confident in who would triumph, and not the least bit concerned the F1 teams could produce the parts for and trim out their cars to match or exceed the IndyCar speeds at an oval.
As I've commented before, the competition in each series is obvious, especially as an untested F1 rookie (Montoya) destroyed the field for years before finally getting his Williams ride back in F1. Then we talk Zanardi, Bourdais, Mansell, etc.
Look at all the trouble with this past year's "aero-kits"; if a F1 team had these sort of problems at a race (Indy500), they would've pulled their cars until the answer was found, but, in America, the show must go on!
The list of some of the best IndyCar drivers to die or be seriously injured in a Dallara is extensive enough.
To sum up my feelings, when I heard Dallara, I said, "Oh NO!" I'm surprised the FIA let HAAS "buy" their chassis. This wasn't so for the 'previous" USF1 team; they were designing their own car in-house.
I agree: now is not soon enough for HAAS to be building their own chassis.
Depends-- if Dalara just does the design and fabrication of the monocoque, it might be OK, assuming Haas is designing the aero components.
But is it that Dallara are incapable of designing a proper chassis, or is it more that customers like HRT didn't bring enough cash to the table? Not to mention, developing that chassis with proper aero, etc.. Will there be more collaboration between Haas and Dallara than HRT and Dallara? Will the aero guys and the powertrain team be more involved in creating the final product? Because if so, I could see how they could end up with a much better product than HRT got.
I just feel like even if Dallara built a good chassis, HRT still would have failed to get the most out of it.
But I do agree that eventually Haas should move towards producing their own chassis.
I had the same thoughts/doubts.
Agreed! Dallara have a record of designing truly awful F1 cars - remember the HRT? Wishing Haas F1 well - though they must make alternative arrangements for their 2017 chassis ASAP. Whatever spin they put on it I foresee them being at the back of the grid with Manor (whose future plans have gone very quiet).
Won't Renault be yellow?
Renault will most likely run black and gold since they bought Lotus.
I like the idea of HAAS livery being yellow, but not the same Ferrari yellow from the logo. That would tie HAAS to Ferrari for the rest of their days. If HAAS doesn't want to be Ferrari's team B, it wouldn't make sense to have livery touting Ferrari. Also, what happens years from now when HAAS wants a different power unit and it has Ferrari logo yellow colors? Bad idea on that shade.
I'm all for bright yellow.
...i don't think colour choice is permanent...
The black and gold thing is a harking back to the "original" Lotus team's JPS sponsorship from the 1970's and early 80's. Lotus also ran mostly yellow sponsorship with Camel (IIRC the change was when Senna was last driving for them)
Jordan looked good in yellow (actually they seemed to look good in each of the colour schemes). And the original Renaults which Prost et al drove in the early 80s were yellow with white and black. Forti were yellow and long forgotten.
I would expect the Enstone team to break with its "Lotus" look, but I also think 2016 is a transitional year and so a new look might not show up until 2017.
Haas have said they will get everything not on the "listed" parts list from Ferrari. I seem to remember that the yellow that the Horse appears on is the *team* colour and Red was originally the Italian *national* colour - although exact shade was changed to be closer to that of Marlboro in the 1990s. If anything I think Ferrari's house colour might be the one which Haas are asked NOT to use.
Lets hope they don't drive like a New York Taxi Cab.
Start the music 😀 "TAXI !!!"
Tricolour me thinks.
Not sure I understand why the livery will be yellow when the Haas logo/brand is red and white?? Unless Ferrari have insisted ...
In a previous interview, Hass said he would like to have an exciting livery because there are too much black and silver in the current ones, and he like yellow a lot to look different, now that Renault is back, maybe he change his mind and choose other non common colors.
Ok, first up, Im more pro Merc and Williams than Ferrari and Hass, but........
Why are Ferrari and Hass under scrutiny, but no one mentions the Williams and Merc connections? Wolf has a stake in both. Not to mention RBR and Torro Rosso.
Yeah, Im sure some will split hairs and bleat that somehow its different, but its not really. If motivated, we could criticise them all. Or not.
good point ACx. I've always thought it strange from an ethical point-of-view
that the Team Principal of one team owns part of one of it's competitors.
surely, just in principal, there's a conflict-of-interest! cheers.
Wolf's stake in Williams was known when the deal for him to take a stake in Mercedes GP was done, and he agreed to dispose of his Williams shares over time (not dump them in one go). I'm not sure if he still owns any. He left the Williams board when he took a job at Brackley. Williams buy engines from Mercedes High Performance engines which is a different company (100% Daimler owned), but make all the parts of the car themselves. Force India used to buy the gearboxes for their Merc engines from McLaren (when McLaren were the works Merc team) and now buy them from the Mercedes team. Williams are supplying their gearbox to Manor from next year (and some suspension bits I think).
The rules were tightened after the Torro Rosso was felt to be too close to the Red Bull.
Haas have said after seeing the problems of the last set of new entrants they would get as much as the rules allow from Ferrari. It is only to be expected that people suggest they are getting a little more than allowed and/or Ferrari gained an advantage via a loophole (legally, but not necessarily fairly).
Wolff USED to have a stake in WILLIAMS but he SOLD it. If you look on WILLIAMS Website you can download and read the company reports....
I thought Wolf sold his interest in Williams after being made team principal. The only thing left was his wife as a Williams reserve driver, but, with her retirement, that's over too.
According to NBCSN, they said he was "into" Williams for much more, and relinquished it when his position was "finalized" at Mercedes. If it's 5%, you'd know; you're the F1 insider.
Correct - he sold around 15 % to Brad Hollinger
He retains just under 5%
I attended the media briefing where both men explained the deal
Wolff retains just under 5% of Williams stock - the max allowable under the rules
sorry -- after he became full team principal at Merc.
It isn't splitting hairs, it is different.
Think it was to do with the fact that Haas has pretty much no restrictions being a new team which is a big enough factor.. although I'm sure other teams do get benefits from their partnerships as well.
“I keep getting asked, ‘are you going to be Ferrari’s B-team’ and my reply is a clear ‘no’. "
Alas, actions speak louder than words.
"Haas F1 will use a yellow colour scheme similar to the one in Ferrari’s famous 'Prancing Horse' logo."
"Haas F1’s close technical relationship with Ferrari has led it being dubbed an 'American Ferrari'."
Don't look at the words. Look at the actions.
Exactly. Add to that "designed in Ferrari's wind tunnel", "employing Gutierrez" and "Grosjean hinting at Ferrari drive in 2017"...
This will be another great case-study. How hubris causes supposedly highly intelligent males to attempt to do more than they actually can.
Hass will be defunct in three years time. The team assets will then be purchased for pennies on the dollar.
By the way, this is the most insufferable comments section extant on the Interweb. Horrible thing. The opposite of inviting.
I agree with you on the comments section here lol.
But, what hubris? That they view 2016 as a learning year? That they know it takes time based on their NASCAR experience?
Perhaps it's that Haas wants to start mid-pack then move themselves up? Why not? Unlike some of the other new teams who've come in, they have years of racing experience, they have a budget, and they have a solid partnership with Ferrari. Why will they be tooling around the back with Manor? Why wouldn't they be able to develop their car aggressively in season and out do a team like Sauber? They will also have a premium 2016 Ferrari engine which should be enough to push them past Renault?
So far they appear to be doing all the right things, including waiting a year to enter F1, doing massive testing outside the regulations, and getting the hang of things. They even have two very good drivers.
Of course, their chassis/aero could be a complete miss and they may not be able to develop in season, etc. But for now it's all to play for and they haven't been talking like they're the biggest, baddest kids on the block.
You seem an expert in hubris.
Perfect response.
If true, a very poor decision by Haas.
Just reiterating my prediction that Haas will beat Manor and that's pretty much it in 2016.
@ andrew m.....i wouldn't be so sure of that.
I'm sure enough to make a BOLD PREDICTION about it.
Manor of the season just gone? Certainly.
Manor with a Mercedes power plant and a 2016 spec car? Not so certain - That Manor might even beat McLaren
Agreed Mansell Mania, it's always interesting to see where the teams are during and after testing, but I just hope that isn't the only interest we'll find in the 2016 season
its going to be really interesting just to see where everybody is come Melbourne.
How much difference is the Merc engine going to make for Manor.
How quick will Haas be with all this Ferrari collaboration.
Can Honda make a really big step in the winter and McLaren are there all of a sudden.
Who knows Manor, Haas, Mclaren and Sauber could all be within a couple of tenths of each other.
Given the ingredients there's absolutely no doubt their entering pretty much straight into mid field
Kenneth, perhaps they will tell me that the engine is important, just as it always was, but it is not the be all and end all? Maybe they will mention that the aerodynamic package is still the biggest deciding factor in the comparitive performance of two Formula one cars? Obviously from your comment, I take it that they wouldn't be able to teach you anything, so do you think that would be an accurate version of likely events?
@ tim W...yes, you might learn something.
Kenneth, great idea! While I am chatting to those Red Bull engineers shall I ask them how they managed to beat Force India and Lotus in this "Engine Formula"?
Jim Unger. In the good old days, if you started the season with a duff engine, then you finished the season with the same duff engine.
@tim w...'.you don't understand why people keep saying that the PU is the most important issue....etc etc'? i suggest that you chat to any of the honda/ renault engined teams and they will help you to understand.
How nice of you TimW to aptly call it a PU, and that's what makes it such a difference. Otherwise, RedBull wouldn't have complained about Renault, and Lotus wouldn't have had an "increase" despite all their $$$ woes and lack of development. And don't forget what Verstappen said (If I had Merc power, I could have ___). I don't want to put everything down to PU, especially as hard work and Vettel have proved your point at Ferrari for 2015. But, you must remember and fully appreciate just how technologically advanced and complex these power units, along with the flow and economy restrictions, are (, and that's why many folks are complaining about the current severe testing restrictions, hoping the FIA would go "unlimited" while these PUs are, really, still being developed [poor Honda] -- in effect, Mercedes has done the best at sound engineering to get their PU the most "correct/right", while everyone else is saddled with having to wait a full year to implement major corrective PU changes). To make the point, despite the teams working on it, remember the good old days when a total engine change was 1/2 an hour? Now, if any one components fails, it's still 2 1/2 to 3 hours to change out, and the session is lost. There ARE times In Formula 1 when things such as PUs/engines (remember turbos in the 1980s), fuel consumption (1980s turbos), tires (when there were tire wars), ground effects & skirt design, raised nose/keel design (Alesi in the Tyrrell 018 in Phoenix) gave a distinct advantage and made the difference. Lest anyone doubt it, I'll simply end by saying, "BT-46B fan car (imagine if Bernie didn't cave to ALL the other teams; where would F1 and the automotive industry be today?)".
Andrew the reference was as in the season in general ie come the end be in midfield points they may or may not have teething issues but I certainly would not be surprised if they did or even not. this whole (and it is what it cuts down to) second/junior team is a complete farce and is one of the few core things that is destroying F1
I find that highly unlikely. Haas do not have a permanent design team, have the joint-lowest number of personnel with Manor, second lowest estimated budget only just ahead of Manor, and have no big-name personnel. They will be fighting with Manor next year, maybe Sauber at a push.
Jim Unger, I don't understand why people keep saying that the PU is the most important performance issue, or that we are in an "engine formula". The engine has always been vital in F1, but it is no more or less important now than it ever was.
"Absolutely no doubt"? That means they're going to be rubbing shoulders with established F1 teams from the get go with a smaller budget. Im willing to give the Haas name and the partnership with Ferrari some credit but you can't work miracles. If they were entering in 2017 with the proposed rule changes I'd give them more credit, but coming in now?
I think you're probably right (mid-field) as McLaren and RedBull have proved the biggest performance issue in F1 is the hybrid power unit(s). As Ferrari have made good progress on that, and HAAS will even be using Ferrari's gearbox, that should give them a Williams-Merc/Lotus-Merc performance gain. Their drivers are gifted and talented. Moreover, next year may have a real degree of "toss up" as McLaren, Williams, and Sauber are just the first teams to publicly say they'll have radically different designs for 2016, which may just be talk, but you never know; remember the FW26 tusk nose? So much promise, should've worked, but "fell flat on it's face". Also, since deferring a year to enter, HAAS has not had other team's restriction in regards to wind tunnel testing, but with Dallara doing the chassis, this could also make their car a total flop.
Smells even worse now that they'll be in Ferrari Banana Yellow.
Wind Tunnel Test & Hoylea War (get it Foyles War) all wrapped up in a tiny Red Bow.
Haas is a Ferrari B Team with Haas being given more help yhan Toro Rosso get from Red Bull. Haas will be Ferrari Test Bed for all extra aero work.
No wonder Mercedes is making Manor their B Team.
You seem to forget that the FIA let Toro Rosso and Redbull work together for those teams' first 1 or 2 years, making literally identical Adrian Newey cars for both teams. As far as RedBull now helping out Toro Rosso, I'm with Max Verstappan in feeling the 2015 Toro Rosso appeared overall superior to the RedBull on most tracks; like Max says, if the Toro Rossos had Merc power units, they probably would've been challenging Ferrari and even Merecedes!
Big Vern, I was talking only about the first 1 or 2 years when RedBull entered the sport with the Toro Rosso (2006); I'm not talking about 2015.
Don't know why you are being downvoted, GPS analysis rated the Toro Rosso as the second best chassis on the grid prior to Silverstone. By Spa that title had been retaken by Red Bull, but their chassis remained one of the best on the grid.
I thinl you'll find that the Toro Rosso car is not the design of Adrian Newey. To the layman they may look identical due to the sponsorship. Toro Rosso has more connection to Frank than Adrian. Besides Adrian has had less influence on Red Bull ever since he went Yacht designing gor the Americas Cup & got himself a younger model (younger wife) Mk2).
Red Bull will not make up much ground on Mercedes & Ferrari. Ferrari will use Haas as a strategic foil when the new seson starts. Mercedes will use Manor (hopefully they'll change the name too). As far as Toro Rosso the Ferrari engine alone will give them more power.
Expect more whining from Red Bull owners & team principal. As they'll be left at the rear once again.
"Haas F1 is likely to run a yellow Ferrari-inspired livery during its debut season in Formula 1 next year"
Complemented with Ferrari red Ferrari and Shell logos
Maybe Haas is denying being a Ferrari B-Team because he's secretly aiming to be the Ferrari A-Team - Yes yes I know: He has a snowball's chance in a very hot place, but after all it is F1 and the man can dream
I hope they are relatively quick. Another spoon in the pot will be good but they'll never win a championship that Ferrari are in.
i do detect a degree of negativity amongst some posters. why isn't it seen as another exciting project that could actually lead to a positive outcome? of all the new teams that we've seen come along in the past few years this one, haas, are actually a racing team, admittedly from a different category, but a racing team nonetheless. i certainly hope that they are successful and would give them every encouragement needed to help them on their way.
So were Marrussia/Manor! A very successful racing team in lower categories too. It doesn't mean you will succeed in F1. That said, I agree.... I hope they are successful.
@ dean....yes, i am fully aware of that but my point was that haas are a very successful team with a very successful business to back it all up. they have great wind tunnel experience with windshear and they are no minnow trying to be a whale. they are highly professional and i do hope that they are able to make the grade. it will be interesting to see how they proceed but i do feel that they are capable of pulling it off.
@kenneth
detect a degree of negativity amongst some posters....
sorry Kenneth, you'll need to SPEAK UP - the pot is screaming so loudly at the kettle that I can hardly hear you :-))
Heck, Kenneth, that C63 comment makes me want to summarize what happened to F1 under our nose.
They stuck some hybrid crap in there, started claiming greenness (no, not guinness), pressed MUTE on our collective remote controls, and as a cherry on top put GridBoys next to our favorite drivers! I think someone is taking a whiz on us F1 fans for real! Either F1 is whipped, or it's trying to capture that illusive female sport audience. Either way, if this HAAS turns out to be pink, I'm punching out.
I thought I could spell cranky C63, turns out I can't.
C63, we don't have a large displacement naturally aspirated V8 to soothe us like you. And they just hybridified our Formula 1 and pressed the damn MUTE button on the remote too! You're going to have to face the reality that we're gonna be cracky as a result.
@ C63.....you might like to share with me your analysis re 'haas'. this is the team we are talking about?
Most sensible comment on here... by a mile!
It amazes me how the anti-Ferrari brigade allow their judgement to be so easily clouded.
As fans of F1, we should be happy that another team is entering the sport at such a difficult moment of its history, irrespective of its colour scheme.
Here, Here! A mere 20 cars/10 teams on the grid doesn't 'cut it" for me; MORE IS BETTER. Also, the idea of 3-car teams scare me as, if the teams became astute with their radios, we could see some real "strategic blocking".(Clay Regazzoni in a "wide Ferrari", being a great "teammate" to Niki Lauda immediately comes to mind -- now imagine 2 Regazzonis and your driver must finish 3rd or better [... makes me feel like Mark Webber].)
Because it is a customer car, and that is bad.
+1
I'm all for having a joke, but negativity seems to be the norm now 😐
Any new team will draw criticism on the starting grid. What is going to be good is that Haas has joined and shown it wants to compete in F1. F1 is maybe not as popular as it used to be and needs an enema from wherever it can get it. F1 is in need of a big overhaul I personally would like to see F1 to go down the same road as Indy Cart with everything identical and drivers skills tested on a level playing field. To me the Haas cars could be rainbow coulor as long as they do what they say and inject pace into F1
@Joe: F1 needs an enema.....??
Obviously you're speaking figuratively, but what exactly are you trying to say?
New teams, new cars -- SURE.
But be like Indy or CART?
CART died, and for concrete reasons.
IndryCar? No F'N way!
Sure the testing restrictions are messing up F1 being the pinnacle of motorsport and motorsport technology, yet there are numerous examples of F1 drivers, not necessarily F1 champions, coming to America and DESTROYING the field/competition (Mansell, Montoya, Z)anardi, Villeneuve). How many Indy drivers have come to F1 and dominated? The reason is simple: in America, if you are rich and.or can secure the backers, as a dentist who went to some Skip Barber training and dabbles in SCCA events, you too can be entered in and drive in IndyCar. Heck in 2 or 3 years, you might actually become competent. The proof was in the 1970s and 1980s when experienced racers in the series complained to officials about novices gaining entry to, of all things, the Indy 500 itself, with one of them being a mere car magazine writer (who caused repeated accidents during his yearly "visits" and almost kill himself there one year).
And then we can talk about safety. Save for the HANS device, which was really independently developed for Indy/CART, what safety innovations have come from Indy to F1? Heck, after dealing with NASCAR for 8 years, Montoya nearly won the IndyCar championship in his 2nd year back!?
There is no comparison; compare the budgets, compare the technology, compare the talent (not just behind the wheel, but throughout the teams), compare the rules & regulations (Who first mandated carbon-fiber helmets, and why?).
Americans yearn for head-to-head, wheel-banging "racing" and [plenty of crashes (Watching a perfect lap at Monaco would be a bore); speed, skill/talent, technology, and lowest elapsed times aren't sexy enough -- hence, NASCAR multi-car pile-up finishes.
Ask Adrian Newey why he has no burning desire to go back to IndyCar, either full- or part-time!
I watch IndyCar on NBCSN whenever possible.
I could bad mouth IndyCar so much more, but mommy said ....
(When was the last time you attended a F1 race weekend?)
I'm guessing you haven't watched much IndyCar lately. The Alabama Grand prix this past season was one of the best motor races I watched all year.
I'd actually like to see Newgarden get a chance to drive an F1 car at some point.
@ joe...i'm rather intrigued by your opening statement. i have to ask you.....why?
@Joe - plenty of series already run spec cars, why do we need another?
Yellow is a historically BAD color in F1, save for Renault, with cars painted yellow doing very poorly (Lotus 99/100, Forti Ford, Minardi, Jordan, ATS, etc.). I'd be much better to see a candy metallic red like Ferrari used in 2007/2008 instead, maybe with some large or alternating white (like the Ferrari 92). That would even fit Haas colors (red, white). If they really wanted to be cute, they should do a B.A.R. half & half paint job, painting one side of the car red, white , & blue, and the other Italian Tricolor (Green White and Red). Regardless, I'm hoping for some major U.S. sponsorship, since that is what really typically dictates a F1 car's and team colors anyway.
James Unger has to be GazBoy ?
Jim Unger I mean has to be GazBoy ?
😉
Jordan did pretty good in Yellow.
You don't really believe the color matters do you? The fact Carl Haas seems clueless is likely to be a bigger deal I would of thought.
Haas seems clueless? You know, ignorance isn't bliss... it's just ignorance.
The guy has built up a quarter billion dollar company from nothing in a highly competitive industry, then built a successful racing team in NASCAR (which is also highly competitive-- whether you like NASCAR or not, there's a lot of competition, and a lot of money involved).
At no point in his business career has he ever seemed "clueless", and there's no reason to suspect he'll be any different in F1.
And his name is Gene Haas, not Carl.
Best Jordan year was 1999, and this was due to Frentzen joining the team and winning in France & Italy. Hill only scored a point or 3 here & there. Otherwise, they were mid-field at best through their time..
But your correct, other than Renault, their yellow cars would occasionally do well.
Go to: http://www.statsf1.com/en/2002/modeles.aspx , flip through the years, and see how many dominating cars were yellow, and how many "also-ran" were yellow.
Strange note, many "aspiring" Italian teams chose to use yellow (hmm, that Ferrari connection[???]).
It's be cute to "sort" that website above to see which colors do finish the best!
To me Haas isnt a US team. I am an American and it doesnt look all that "American". Sorry but a Ferrari Engine, Italian made chassis, French and Mexican driver, and team based in England. That is not a US team. All my friends and I that have followed F1 for over 20 years are not buying all the hype in the media. Until a US made engine sits behind the driver and the chassis is made by a US manufacturer to go with it Haas is a multimational just like Force India, Manor, or any other multinational. I know why the team is based in England because that is where the majority of the tech partners have been working for eons. I would be more comfortable calling it a multi national. Just my opinion and some friends though.. In regards to waiting the year and running a yellow car. They will stand out compared to the majority of the field. I hope they do shake up the mid field a little bit. If that helps to keep them from having the same issue as Mclaren Honda had this year. I have been a Williams supporter for many many years so I still pull for them but HAAS will be a welcome addition to the field. I would love to see 3 or 4 more teams on the grid one day.
Kevin Harvick and Kurt Busch drivers, Chevy V8 engine, Chaparral chassis, Hoosier tires, Sunoco gas...
Ferrari yellow? I thought it was going to be Ducati yellow… snicker… snicker…
Examples
Here’s a link to some of the Haas livery conceptions. A few are pretty ostentatious.
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=900&tbm=isch&q=haas+f1+car&revid=2066663422&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWu4KZ5dbJAhWLGB4KHYQoBrUQ1QIIHw&dpr=1
The F1 Technical Net “2016 Fantasy Liveries topic” highlights several nice Haas designs. I particularly like the red, white, and black with a blue highlight for the flag.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23592
An entertaining Video of the 2016 yellow Haas 2016 car racing at COTA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHABX8I831M
Lastly, Will Buxton’s January 30, 2015 blog post on “The Art of Being Boring” (about a third of the way down):
https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/page/3/
Hopefully Haas will do something a little different, but to my mind Red Bull were the biggest offenders when it came to liveries this season - After initially wetting our appetites with the camo test livery and then promising us an exciting new livery we got...that 😐
Yes, I agree. Red Bull along with McLaren were disappointing. Every year I try and watch the unveiling of each car, excited that liveries - and sponsors - will be more distinguishing only to be let down.
I think it will be intriguing to see what Haas comes up with. Yellow with M&M's scattered around!
Haas hired a very high-raking marketing head, Adam Jacobs. Seems like he might have more marketing experience than all of the other teams combined, certainly at a higher level. But in F1, and dealing with varied cultures, it's a different beast. Lets see.
Here's some info about him.
From http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/haas-f1-team-lures-anheuser-busch-executive-head-marketing-effort
Adam "Jacobs comes to Haas F1 Team from Anheuser-Busch, where he was the sports marketing manager for the company’s Budweiser brand in NASCAR and the Bud Light brand in the NFL and college sports. In that role, Jacobs oversaw programs that included Budweiser’s sponsorship of Kevin Harvick in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series and the Bud Light Hotel during Super Bowl XLVIII in New York City.
Prior to his role at Anheuser-Busch, Jacobs joined the NFL’s St. Louis Rams in 2006 as director of marketing before becoming the team’s vice president in 2009. He has also held positions at the Indy Racing League, General Motors R*Works, Washington Mutual Bank and the Miami Fusion of Major League Soccer."
Yep kenneth, as soon as I looked at it the next day I knew I'd screwed up
@ random....it's 'whetting' not 'wetting' but then again maybe just a mixed metaphor as in 'wetting our thirst'...or whatever hahaha
James, are there any famous engineers joining Haas now?
Allesandro Volta , Evangelista Torrecelli ,
Antonio Meuci & Guglielmo Marconi they just have to awaken them from their slumber.
The Guardian headline reads:
"Paris climate deal: nearly 200 nations sign in end of fossil fuel era"
Well, F1 is between a rock and a hard place, isn't it?
@ sebee...the paris 'climate change' gravy train is the biggest in history and it's about to leave the station with all seats fully booked.
Absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully it trickles down to the sheeple, in a form of some yellow liquid.
No Sebee, signed pieces of paper are famously meaningless if the will and money are not there.
No Sebee, if they still had the old gas guzzlers they would be.
I don't know TimW. It seems to me that Formula E is the one that's designed to suck up to politicians and get their city centers and money for hosting events already. F1 even with hybrid is having western governments pull backing for F1 anyway. Why do you think we're losing races like Germany, France, Imola,, US, etc. They want F1, there is just no money from government to pay for it. Is UFC government supported?
These hybrids may appease politicians and extend public money for F1 another few years, but any day now F1 will need to stand alone. Oh, and as petrol total world revenue pie starts to shrink, oil companies will fight for share. There will be good piles of oil companies marketing funding for F1 to grab. And oil money won't be outlawed by politicians like cigarette money.
Häagen-Haas Vanilla Bean
Yo Random, your boy is on my team! Go "Team V8!" Go "Team F1 noise!"
>
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns32707.html
Yep that's right Sebee - When you have a choice between Sebastian "crazy frog noise" Vettel and Dan "V8 scream" Ric the choice is clear
Don't fight it Sebee - You know you'll soon be a Ric supporter just like me.
Resistance is futile.
I fail to understand this big skepticisim towards Dallara. It is by far the world bigger manufacturer of race car chassis. What makes their reputation so miserable?
@JohnnyB - Their past F1 efforts, of course
Well what's in a colour? Identity perhaps, but a potential clash with the new Renault team. A plain yellow would be good perhaps. As for any perceived negativity, perhaps because Americans have been slow to adopt F1 preferring a rather lower tech Nascar, but I understand why. Americans enjoy the rather more intense spectacle this gives them, and I actually think F1 can learn something there because if they seriously want success in the States they must improve the spectacle. They could transform F1 if they significantly reduced wing aero, and increase mechanical grip by other means to reduce the dirty air issue.
i think haas will struggle at first. the budget looks a bit tight. it's all very well and good that haas use the ferrari windtunnel but it's the aero numbers that matter. dallara have no recent f1 aero experience and ferrari lag on aero development as well.
we haven't heard much about the technical personnel that haas have hired. that's a key determinant of performance.
i hope haas does well.
I have to say there is a lot of hubris around this new team. 100m a year is Force India type money and I don't see why they would be any further up the field than that. Gene says his chassis will be better than the Ferrari, but I doubt that! Just out of interest can anyone remember the last 5 teams to start from scratch? Buying an existing team has always been a more sensible choice.
@TimW - That is the problem, Haas are not starting from scratch.
@kenneth The Haas team's whole approach to F1.
@ dwdwdw...what problem are you talikg about?
whilst on the subject of colour what will the red bull cars look like? they could look super with a TAG HEUER combo of red and green although TH also use a monotone logo as well. i would really like to see a few changes as the current colours , whilst certainly distinctive, need to be revamped and brought up to date. as for haas, if they do go for yellow then a cross between a 'madras' and a 'cadmium yellow' would look rich. very very nice.
I like the blue/ purple. You don't like? It's unique and original. Not a me-too look.
I'd like to see a green car make a comeback myself.
I don't know Kenneth, looking at blond Lewis, it totally made me want to go for frosted tips for the winter.
@ sebee....it's not that i don't like the blue/purple but i like to see change from time to time to keep it all fresh. sometimes a change of livery inspires a change in perspective and outlook. take clothes as a perfect example. some people never change their colour combinations and sooner or later they look daggy and out of touch. colour is such a personal thing that no two people look the same in the same colour. take hamilton's hair...that blonde lady gaga dye job looked ridiculous so much so that he kept his hat on most of the time. hahaha.
For the last 4 decades or more, the primary color as been of the sponsor. I.e. since Marlboro and John Player. Prior to that, nationalistic colors were the basic car color. Therefore, since the yellow is not a sponsor color, why yellow? ( I do like the Fly Yellow at Ferrari, which is not the logo yellow.) How about Haas going back to the original 1950's national color for a U. S. car? . . White with blue stripe. That would be an ideal background for a variety of sponsor logos. And remember the Renault factory color is a deep yellow. My opinion.
CRC Business and F1 - Possible Livery Colors
Is F1 and his CRC business paying dividends? On the Haas Automation Twitter feed scroll down to Dec 1 and see the Tweet with a picture of Eseban G signing a CRC for a Haas customer in Mexico.
"Haas Automation, Inc @Haas_Automation Dec 1
One very lucky @HaasMX customer was recently delivered a UMC-750SS signed by @EstebanGtz during the #MexicanGP! #F1 " How many $millions is that worth?
https://twitter.com/Haas_Automation
Quite a machine but, sadly will not fit into most of our workshops! BTW, F1 teams already use his CRC equipment.
The work his company is doing shown on their Twitter feed is very impressive.
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Possibly this image of a Haas NASCAR shooting out of one of his CRC machines gives us some idea of the Haas F1 livery - red, white, black. The graphic is great, certainly more aggressive and exciting than what we typically see from F1. It's made as a computer wallpaper.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/haasautomation/22828701273/in/dateposted/
Ugh, kids these days and their horrendous coulours.
Ugh, kids these days and their horrible colour choices.
Ban all sponsorship in F1, make a real sport again. And make it louder. That's what I say.
Where am I? Nurse!
PS love you, Alex 😉