Scuderia Ferrari
There is an interesting line in Gazetta dello Sport today, noting that Sebastian Vettel has scored more points after six races for Ferrari than Fernando Alonso managed in the same period in any of his five seasons with the team.
Vettel, who has scored a win and four podiums, has 98 points which is comfortably more than Alonso managed even in his best start to a season with Ferrari. It’s also his second strongest start to a season, after his utterly dominant 2011 season with Red Bull.
Last year, the annus horribilis for Alonso’s relationship with the team, he had 61 points at this stage; 2013 he had 78; 2012 it was 76; 2011 just 69; and 2010 he had 75 points. So he was fairly consistent.
The 2012 season featured two early wins and another podium for Alonso, who led the championship after the first six rounds in a season when he took the title fight to the wire against Vettel, who was at Red Bull at the time.
His best start in points terms in 2013 was spoiled by a retirement.
Canada is the next round and, according to Gazetta, Ferrari will have a significant upgrade on the engine, which is believed to have used up half their remaining development ‘tokens’. Canada is a race which Ferrari has always traditionally targeted for upgrades over the years.
This will be the team’s third power unit this season, with the target to use a fourth for Monza and then rotate engines for the rest of the season. A fifth may be needed – or may be tactically employed – at a race where it is easy to overtake to compensate for the ten place grid penalty a completely new unit demands.
It’s something they would prefer to avoid; there were signs last season that they raced the engine at low regime in the final races, rather than face the shame of an engine penalty. This year the penalty is less severe, so it will be interesting to see their strategy there.
Mercedes is due to unveil its second Power unit of 2015 in Canada, again using up development tokens. They have been quite conservative in the opening events in how they use the power unit in races, but it’s worked as they are 1-2 in the drivers championship, dominant in the constructors’ and, so far, on target to get through the season without needing an engine penalty.
“It’s good to keep finishing on the podium but we are Ferrari and now we want more,” said Vettel after his second place in Monaco.
The German was able to stay in Nico Rosberg’s wheel tracks all race in Monaco, although some way behind Lewis Hamilton, who had a gap of up to 25 seconds at one point. Nevertheless it was significantly better than Spain, where the performance gap of 8/10ths of a second which Ferrari carries to Mercedes in qualifying pace, also carried through to the race.
However most of that was due to the performance on the hard tyres in Spain. Vettel was only 10 seconds behind the leading Mercedes through the first two phases of the Spanish race on the softer tyres.
Interestingly, although Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene has set a target of three wins for this season, he has also said recently that there are limits to what can be achieved with this year’s chassis.
It hints that the team will throw significant resource and time at the project for 2016, which will build on some of the lessons from this year but which sounds like it constitutes Ferrari really ‘going for it’ on a radical and aggressive design to try to unseat Mercedes from their world champion status.
Vettels been quite fortunate by moving from RBR into a revamped Ferrari.
I doubt he would have it easy if Ricciardo was at Ferrari instead of the aging Kimi.
Lets get Bottas or Dani in Kimi seat & see how many podiums Vettel steps on.
I doubt it would the same amount. Kimi runs hot & cold his quali sessions are mediocre these days though his race craft is brilliant when he's switched on. All in all Vettels had it easy at Ferrari with Kimi driving hot & cold dependent on his mopd.
Riccardo Who? The same driver who is beaten by Teenagers from Torro Rosso? And now the Cars are some three seconds faster than they were last year. Now, where is he? Ah yeah' the Renault power.... Right Right got it.... the same Renault Power that the Torro Rosso kids have and who are teaching Riccardo how to drive a car which is three seconds faster than the year he won when mercs failed.... Unlike Vettel who beat em' fair and square in Malaysia 😛
Grow up guys.... some drivers can't get the car right to their liking, just like Alonso who is not only being out qualified by Button and also out driven, but class may have a few dips but it is permanent
Consider one key difference of Alonso and Vettel at Ferrari, Red Bull never had the level of dominance that Mercedes is enjoying in 2014-2015. Even the biggest Hamilton/Rosberg fan would admit that any of the top 6-8, maybe 10 (Vet, Ric, Bot, Rai, Gro, Ros, Mas etc) drivers would win in these Mercs. It's only a matter of beating your team mate and the championship is yours.
Alonso had a fair shot at winning races and a 1st or 2nd finish was up for grabs on most circuits, especially 2010 & 2012. Case in point if Red Bull was so dominant why did they not have an almost guaranteed 1st and 2nd finish in most races (over 4 seasons)? Vettel in 2015 is beating his team mate, & his most realistic finish is 3rd, unless Merc have a stuff up like Monaco etc (Malaysia was an extreme case).
James, can you please do a piece on the dominance of Merc, compared to the dominance of Red Bull. I know what the results would be in quali and race pace advantages, but it would be great to have the stats and amazing analysis that your team provides.
@James Allen.
This is the reason why this site is the best in F1 by far. Unbiased detailed analysis, an in depth behind the scenes look at the F1 world & still has time to reply and take on feedback from readers! Love your work James...
OK we are on it!
Pkara- Riccardo is not in the same league as Vettel. When you look at what he accomplished last year, it is not that impressive. He was handed 3 wins because the Mercedes cars were out of the race or struggling somehow. If he continues the kind of crap he did in Monaco, he is not going to be well liked among the drivers. As for Vettel having it easy, I guess he has and it has been fun watching him lap Riccardo in the first 5 races.
Timing is so important and Vettel made the right choice, but Ferrari still not really that close to Merc in a threatening way. Did you hear what Lewis said after the race, he could have doubled the lead and make it 40 secs if he wanted, that's how dominant the car is and with Lewis's pace he could afford to slow down in case his brakes get cooked.
Wasnt Hamilton lucky to make his debut in a very competitive car capable of winning championship?
Wasnt he lucky again when he joined Merc when they were in ascendancy?
F1 has always been about being at right place on right time. I am sure most seasoned F1 enthusiasts would agree. Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton do not have to prove anything to anyone. All are multiple champions and they deserve every bit of it.
Winners usually make it seem easy and perceived as being lucky.
Put it this way, Massa had always been Alonso's wingman meaning the whole Ferrari was behind him including Massa's side of the garage.
Yet, on Vettel's rookie year, he already scored more points than Alonso's best.
Seems to me, Alonso has been seriously overrated.
Please god will the Ricciardo cult worship ever stop at this forum? I'm not suckered for one moment by any of it. Hamilton would not have had it so easy if Vettel was driving the other Merc that's for sure, Vettel would be doing most of the winning.
Most people including the Seb [mod] knows Vettel is a better driver than Rosberg, if Seb was at Merc from last year onwards would probably see Seb winning his 6th championship this year, Seb and Hamilton needs to be team mates whilst both still in their prime, it'd probably be the fastest pairing in history in terms of 1 lap pace.
Maybe that's to do with having won 4 championships and winning races on merit.
And you put last years RB head to head down to.......?
Vettel has a rather large cult following as well, it seems!
Daniel is a flower of a day kind of driver, pretty much a Webber or a Button style. He will never become a number one.
Where's your evidence behind that statement? In his only season in a reasonably consistent car, he was at or near the front every time, and more often than not in front of Vettel. It's not like he only did this occasionally...
I don't know if Bottas would really do any better than Raikkonen, his performance against Massa is about as good as Raikkonen's was.
Alonso must be kicking himself. I know he says he would rather risk it at McLaren than be permanently finishing second with Ferrari, but this years Ferrari is genuinely quick enough to challenge for the title in Alonso's hands. He could have probably won in Bahrain, which would put him only 6 points behind Hamilton at this stage of the season assuming he matched Vettel's results so far in every other race. He might have been able to nab second from Rosberg in China too, maybe even the win at a push.
Somewhat amazingly Alonso had more points at this stage last season (61) than Raikkonen does now (60) despite last years car being absolutely awful by comparison.
Alonso is struggling against Button, getting beaten by Jenson last time I checked, with this kind of form do you really think Alonso could out qualify and outscore Vettel of this year? Vettel and Hamilton are one lap speed kings (apart from last year) Seb would bury Alonso before the races even started just like whats happening to Raikkonen, Kimi is a lot more comfortable with this year's car and probably alot closer to Alonso than last year.
let alonso and vettel drive as teammates and your questions would be answered
The argument that Alonso would have Vettel's results and giving him that win in Bahrain rests entirely upon Alonso qualifying as well as Vettel. Vettel is soundly beating Raikkonen in qualifying in a car that Kimi is actually happy with. That being said you deserve credit as your comments are pretty good for being so one sided in analysis.
Where is the 6/10 this year that Alonso allegedly brings to a car??? Or for that matter last year??? Dream On dude
@Rohind
It would be unlikely but not impossible. I don't see the issue in acknowledging the possibility.
Why not say Alonso might be leading the WDC in this year's Ferrari?
Dream on!! 😀
And perhaps Hamilton wouldn't have so much poles if Vettel would have been his team mate. But this is the same woulda, coulda, shoulda as talking about what Ricciardo or Bottas would have done.
Ifs are useless, the facts are what they are
Not sure what the reason behind is, but you don't miss any opportunities to get yourself worked up over Vettel. I have my favorites yes, yet can't seem to be able to dislike any person I don't actually know to that extent, . F1 seem to be a big thing for you? Marc
Kimi just can't switch these tyres on in quali becasue he isn't aggressive enough with the front end, so he is always on the backfoot on Sundays.
Only race he has qualified where he should in Bahrain he beat 1 Ferrari and 1 Mercedes.
His race pace is right with Vettel, he only needed 1 lap to dispatch Ricciardo in Monaco during the stops and set the quickest middle sector of anyone including Hamilton at that point of the race.
The faster tracks and higher temperatures over summer should help his qualifying struggles which are very frustrating.
Ricciardo was lucky to jump into a car that suited him down to the ground last year and one that was totally not suited to Vettel.
Remember Vettel's reliability was also diabolical in quali last year and yet it was only 11-8 to Dan, in this years SF15-T or the 2013 Redbull Seb's race pace is/was completely different to his races last year, something wasn't right with him and the way he handled last year but if he whitewashes Kimi in quali this year even though Kimi enjoys driving this car then the real Vettel is back, it'd be great to see Rosberg join Ferrari and see how Vettel does against him, I see Nico getting destroyed like Kimi is right now, after all Webber was clearly faster than Rosberg at Williams, shame Hamilton won't be joining Ferrari though, I believe the Vettel/Hamilton super team in the potentially 2nd fastest car would be a spectacle alright, one of them could win the championship if Alonso or Button is driving the Merc.
also my opinon ...
ricciardo came from a low downforce car to RBR and was surprised, how much grip he had ..
vettel came from a realy high downforce car to 2014 RB an was surprised, how much grip he lost .. - maybe also lost some fun with F1 at all during that time ..
greetings..
Quite Fortunate? You clearly are blind. Vettel new exactly that he couldn't drive in Red Bull anymore. Chosing the best car is part of the Driver's skills, just like Hamilton lefting McLaren for Mercedes. On the other hand, Alonso is the opposite. He chose poorly Renault the second time and now is pathetic in McLaren. Your Bottas and Ricciardo's statement is insubstancias. What happen to Vettel last year is similar to Hamilton in 2011.
Vettel is the only driver to overtake Nico & Lewis both on track in Malaysia this year since Australia 2014 without the Mercs having any technical issue. I'm not sure if the luck has anything to do with that performance. And he has been consistently fast & much closer to the Mercs than anybody in the rest of the races apart from Bahrain. So, his performance is all about luck doesn't support the evidence so far in 1st 6 races.
Talking about luck, F1 is an interesting world when it comes to luck. It's more about timing than luck. 2/3 years ago nobody would put their house Mercedes becoming such dominant force. I remember watching Martin Brundle's interview with Mr E. Mr E is the one who suggested Hamilton to move to Mercedes which Hamilton was surprised about at first & Brawn had his vision set for Mercedes' success which convinced Hamilton to sign up with the team. So, if you think about luck, no driver in the history of F1 was lucky enough to start their career with one of the fastest cars like Mclaren 07. Then change from Mclaren to Mercedes at the right time too. Even Vettel was BMW's reserve driver for a while & had to drive for STR before getting a drive with a strong Red Bull team. Schumacher had to drive for Jordan before Benneton, had to wait 5 years before winning with Ferrari. Nico was unlucky that he didn't have someone like Massa as team mate last year, where he probably would've won the championship quite easily & the theory of German tea, backing the German driver was all utter rubbish, which many pundit including Eccleston suggested. I'm not saying Hamilton's success is based on luck either. He certainly joined the right team at the right time & he managed to get the best out of the package he has been given. Success is the combination of right timing, team work & skills. I'm an Australian & would love nothing more than seeing Ricciardo win the championship. But, it's hypothetical to assume that Vettel would be blown away in the same car if he had Ricciardo or Bottas as team mate. This car might just suit Vettel better than Ricciardo or Bottas or Hamilton, we will never know.
To aveil
I don't know if you can see Jer's reply to your comment or not. I don't want to repeat Jer. But he summed it up well
i thought vettel's 2015 victory was because merced s changed theirs too quickly in the first stint.
i also think hamilton beating alonso in 2007 proved that he gets t the drive on merit rather than luck. was he lucky to lead the championship right up to the last race or was he incredibly brilliant as a racing driver?
his switch to mercedes was condemned by all reporters until his first race with them.
hamilton has asked vettel when can they be teammates and vettel shied away. i hope they answer you soon.
I agree you are stressing on the word "both" when citing overtaking Mercedes cars by Vettel. Kimi overtook Nico too in Bahrain. Others pointed some other 1-case instances.
Interesting...given how much Bernie Ecclestone loves Hamilton's marketability for the image of Formula 1, you'd think Bernie has been instrumental in making sure Hamilton has the best chance of winning titles and hence improving both the image of Formula 1 and Hamilton. But let's not start another conspiracy on this forum 😉
Ricciardo also overtook HAM in Hungary. To my displeasure
Incorrect. Germany, HAM was overtaken by Bottas
+1
add alonso to that list .. (not really faster than aging button...)
greetings
Why don't u apply the same for Alonso who only had to content with Massa and 'ageing Kimi' and now Button? But no, if Alonso wins, it must be due to his legendary ' six tenths' that drags even dog of a car to the finish line.
Nobody will apply that logic. But they sure do in casting Webber as a rubbish "journey-man" driver because he was beat by Vettel year in and year out.
Here here!
That's a very strong lineup of team mates you just listed.
I agree that this year's Ferrari is better than any that Alonso had, through the first six races, apart from 2013 possibly. That 2013 Ferrari started off well in AUS, won in CHN and ESP, but then Alonso had the bad DNF in MAL, and then the malfunctioning DRS flap in BHN. He also ran a very ordinary race in Monaco that year.
As for Kimi, yeah he's not doing so hot. Great race in Bahrain, but he needs to be at that level all the time. Vettel does well against the senior members of the grid.
KRB, so you say best car Alonso had is the one he had no input/influence on? Should we conclude something from this?
I see your point about the first 6 races. I guess I'm just looking at it on a seasonal basis, and I'm quite tired of hearing how it was all Alonso getting to P2 in WDC table with a Ferrari dog. My foot! If he got it to P2 in WDC, my belief is, Ferrari gave him a car capable of P2, or even P1 - as it did come down to last races, did it not?
2010 Ferrari won the first race on merit. The gap to Merc with this car is much bigger
@Sebee I am totally serious. I did say his cars AFTER 6 races. The best car Alonso had was in 2010, but that year despite getting a 1-2 in the first race (inherited b/c of a faulty spark plug on Vettel's car), that car really only came good from Germany on. In 2012 it was a mini-miracle (partly good drives, partly good fortune) that he was leading after Monaco that year (and just by 3 pts). 2013 was Ferrari's best out-of-the-gate car during the Alonso era, but even if he had maximized his points over the first 6 races, it wouldn't have been anywhere near enough to hold back the tsunami that was the RB9 from Belgium on.
As for winning in the hands of Vettel, we'll disagree. In both 2010 and 2012, I doubt very much that Vettel would've had the Ferrari near the point totals that Alonso had them at, in each respective year. Vettel was mistake-prone in both 2009 and 2010, but the strength of the car covered up for it in 2010. If in these scenarios Alonso was in the Red Bull, then neither season goes down to the last race. That's my opinion, I know you think the opposite. Everyone makes "adjustments" in their head for how a driver's relative ability impacts on a car's ultimate performance. You will think the Ferrari's base performance is lower than I would peg it at, while judging the Mercedes' base performance to be higher than where I'd place it. There are a multitude of reasons, gathered over many seasons, behind our internal assessments. That's what makes F1 such fun.
The Iceman cannot nail that ultimate lap on a Saturday, which - with these silly low front wing regulatons making following another car very difficult - harms his prospects on a Sunday.
Are you serious? Come on KRB, Alonso had a Ferrari capable of winning a WDC! Twice! That Ferrari probably would have won at the hands of Vettel.
Does this Ferrari right now look like a WDC winner? Exactly.
In 2010 the Ferrari was much closer to Redbull then Ferrari is to Mercedes this year.
As I always suspected . . .
Last year’s downturn for Vettel was a mere blip due to lack of motivation.
When objective history finally gets to be written his achievements will put Alonso’s in the shade.
I'm a Hamilton fan(boy), but I believe that Vettel is possibly the best driver. Hamilton might be his equal, but Alonso certainly isn't. History may well write Alonso as being the best, but in reality he's just one of the best of the rest.
Excellent point.
You know in Spain, the AMC, "Alonso Media Corporation" has been working extremely hard since Seb turned up. Vettel was first considered with sympathy as he was seen as a rival of Lewis Hamilton, the man who had dared to prove that Alonso is not the best of the grid.
The AMC even invented a pun, "Verdettel", which is a mix between "verde" (green in Spanish) and Seb's surname. It did sell pretty well among the unsophisticated majority of Alonso's followers.
However, after 4 World Championships, many on the Spanish media and too many would be experts on the Internet, have the man from Heppenheim under permanent attack. Either his wins are Newey's, or he cannot bear pressure, which is preposterous as one recalls Brazil 2012.
The propaganda campaign to sell that Alonso is the victim of a conspiracy from the evil powers in F1 is completely pathetic, however it is still successful among the less articulated newcomers to the sport.
Of course, one cannot help thinking that a few have become wealthier as all this has been taking place.
It is with enormous delight that I see Sebastian infuriate these lads time and again.
Cheers!
That last line gave me a hearty chuckle
I concur completely!
Bravo!
Fixed that line for you:
"Last year’s downturn for Vettel was a mere blip due to performance related get out clause"
Huh. I doubt it. He would have looked a right muppet had Red Bull turned their performance around...
@Layercake, a source for the comment that Vettel said he was going to Ferrari around Spain of last year, please.
Not sticking your head in the sand about last year, lol good one!
This is true, Vettel actually had the best drive of 2014, by continuing to ask for new chassis he legally covered his @$$ because nobody trying activate their early termination clause would actively ask for 3 new chassis during the season would they? Nobody knows what's really happening inside a team but Marko publicly stated last year red bull wasn't designed for vettel, ask yourself why wouldn't red bull design their car around their 4x champ? It's because red bull burns bridges. They have no shame. And first let me tell you as a cut throat competitor, I support red bull when they behave this way and like them as a team. I'm not sticking my head in the sand about what really was happening last year. Vettel said he knew he was going to ferrari before Spain last year, this was say before any Alonso announcement, so who really was controlling the drives market last year? If you ask Alonso he says himself, well he wouldn't wouldn't he? But I think most people can figure out the easiest way to manage Alonso is to let him think he's in control.
+1 my thought exactly
I must agree –
One for the ‘conspiracy-ranters’ to chew on.
Wish more of them had a sense of humour.
Alonso is already in the shadow of Vettel and Hamilton.
Alonso will never win another race, he should retire
Perhaps if you look at statistics alone. Hamilton and Vettel have yet to endure seasons in cars that were not capable of winning GPs. Alonso has had a couple of these already (2009, 2014). Their win totals have been point-farmed in dominant cars.
Hahaha, hilarious)))
Alonso better? Maybe at testing!
C'mon you can't be serious. Im so hurt being an Alonso fan, it's painful you know, lol.
Absolutely!
‘Where in god’s name did that wall get to . . ?
Oh, there it is –
Take aim – Fire!’
Discounting Vettel's bad year last year due to "lack of motivation" is a more damning assessment of a sportsperson than him just not adapting to the car properly (as bad as that is itself). Maybe sportspeople at the end of their careers don't have the drive to succeed, but for a sportsperson that you imply should be spoken about as an all time great, substandard results - in his prime - from "lack of motivation" casts significant doubt on his status. Alonso obviously wasn't happy at Ferrari the last couple of years, yet he STILL destroyed his team mates and out drove his car.
So its due to lack of motivation for Button to be beating Alonso this year yeah?
Vettel was saddled with a POS car and the team had already decided Riccardo was the new golden boy. The car was developed for Riccardo and not for Vettel. Also, the team knew or suspected he was leaving a lot earlier than they say.
As for Alonso, he is more urban myth than he is a great driver. He had an opportunity for a WDC with Ferrari on at least two occasions. The only problem is he lost to Vettel.
Fine, don't call it "lack of motivation". Call it being "ruthless" and doing "whatever needs to be done" to trigger certain performance clauses in his contract to allow him to leave 1 year early.
Hi James,
Do you know how many power units the Mercedes pair have used so far? I've read recently that they used 1 PU for the first 5 races...did they use a new one in Monaco?
Canada could be very good for Ferrari, especially with the brake problems that Mercedes seem to have. They had issues last year at Canada and again this year at Bahrain, which is another track heavy on braking. Could Vettel or Kimi surprise the Mercs?
My final point is on Kimi...I REALLY want him to do well but at this point I think it's clear he's a shadow of his former self, particularly on Saturdays. 2007 seems like yesterday but in reality it was 8 years ago..hopefully he'll find some form and soon. Until then, I just hope he keeps giving us great radio messages!
Oops I meant to reply to Miha.
Well spotted, I read the Artcile you are referring to. They might not use all the tokens. As you know there are different number of tokens available for different areas of the engine. However, Ted Kravtiz in Barcelona did a piece on engine tokens with Martin Brundle. That report suggests that the teams can change anything they want in the engine if they can prove to FIA that it is to improve safety. Ted also mentioned that the tokens that are available for pistons are the key to performance gain which Ferrari had all the tokens available for compare to Mercedes' none. Time will tell.
One for the first six races
This is a statistic that should be shouted from the hilltops:
"F1 has engines that use less fuel, create more power, and last longer than ever before."
It is a huge achievement. And you would think if the sport cared about itself, it would be more proud of them.
Very impressive.
That is astonishing!
When I started to watch F1 in the late 90's teams would often use 2-3 engines per weekend. Incredible.
Hi James,
there is a piece on motorsport website, which has Arrivabene personally saying they will not use tokens for Canada and he won't say when they will. Which probably means Ferrari staying with engine #2 for Canada.
It's exactly the opposite of what this post is saying. Different sources?
p.s.: I would like to see Ferrari upgrade as soon as possible.
Saw the same thing in many of the Italian papers, who are saying the step 1 will now debut @ Spa and step 2 remains as before @ Monza.
I'm hoping its gamesmanship by Arrivabene to wrong-foot the Merecedes steamroller...
They didn't do anything on Sunday and it fooled the Mercs into pitting the nailed-on winner. Imagine if they really crank it up.
Clearly. Let's see what happens in Canada
Is there any point in Ferrari 'going for it' next year? No doubt they want to win, but is a long term view going to produce greater triumphs? Would they be better to aim for 2017 and the impending regulation changes and throw the bulk of their resources towards building a dominant car for then?
The 2017 regulation changes could throw Ferrari back into the mid-field again, traditionally they have not done well with major rule changes (see, 2014, 2009, 2005, 1996). The 'we'll win in the future' trap is one the manufacturer teams fall into repeatedly (notably BMW threw away a driver and constructor championship lead in 2008 to focus on 2009, that went swimmingly), it never works.
.
Merc may have invested very heavily in the 2014 car, but they also invested very heavily in the 2013 car and it gave them their best season to that point. No one can truly predict what a major rule change will do to the order, the time to build a competitive car is always right now.
better for 2020....
Nothing is set in stone for 2017 yet, and Mercedes success didn't come over night either. They had to slowly build up to it and then with more durable tires and building the best power unit things came together for them. Ferrari needs to figure out what the weak points of Mercedes are and it looks like they found a few. Now they need to keep up the pressure and evaluate their own efforts all the time. This will be interesting to watch.
They can only choose to devote resources to this year or next year. There's not much they can do towards 2017, the rules aren't known. They've made spectacular progress this year, but are very unlikely to win, and aren't under much pressure behind.
It makes sense therefore to devote resources to 2016 rather than 2015, if they think that will bring more points overall.
And of course they have an unfair allocation of money to spend, so they might as well use it to gain the most unfair advantage they can, before teams start to get judged on €/point
In the £/point ranking they may well be ahead of Mercedes this year...
They have the cash, the talent, and the motivation, so why not go for it?
If they go for it in 2016 then sure, maybe they'll finish 2nd to Mercedes (okay, probably 2nd) but if they don't go for it then they'll definitely finish 2nd, if not worse.
Of course there's also the chance that they'll end up doing another 2008-2009 slump, but still better the devil you know.
Whatever happens fingers crossed that 2017 will be another reset and that it shakes the field up a bit again.
Ferrari had stated during the pre season that they considered this season a rebuilding season as they prepared their new facilities and finalized the staff changes. They still have to race next season, so why not go for it. The 2017 regulations aren't set in stone, and to protect the lower teams, will probably still be an evolution of the current cars.
I think Ferrari should be going for it now, especially after what happened in the Mercedes camp this weekend. Hell no they should not wait for 2017.
I personally think next year is their best bet at this stage. They are clearly on the up making great strides in the engine and chassis. the regulations are pretty stable and they get free choice of tyres. Both Ferrari and Allison cars seem historically to struggle on the harder compounds and shine on softs, so thosecan work that yo their benefit.
I think 2017 is going to be a big shake up and a bit of an unknown. With such big changes again, anything can happen. it's risky to put all your eggs in that basket when you are already snapping at the heels of the front runners. A good example of that is BMW Sauber 2008 into 2009.
If you are near the back, it's worth a punt, like Honda/Brawn 08-09.
2017 rules aren't set on concrete yet. With useless use of F1 Strategy group has achieved nothing but the helmet design change so far. So, Ferrari throwing all of their resources towards 2017 is a risk that's totally based on hypothetical changes in 2017. Mercedes was able to build a strong car & a strong team around strong drivers because the engine rules for 2014 was set in 2011. Plus they hired some high profile people in all departments towards the 2014 season. At some point including Brawn Mercedes had 3/4 team principal & technical directors in the team. Ferrari doesn't have the luxury of guaranteed rules for 2017. Now the engines are frozen, use of wind tunnel, aero upgrades & test are more limited than it has ever been. Also they clearly have the 2nd best package on the grid which they can build on to challenge Mercedes next year. I still don't think they will be able to beat Mercedes from the get go in 2016, but they might have a chance for more regular race wins if they push for next year from here on. Vettel is Ferrari's key to success for sure. I'm a big Alonso fan, but he lacked positive leadership that Ferrari needed to move the team forward with. Now Vettel's presence & his positivity has the positive influence that Ferrari lacked since Schumacher left the team.
@ Formula Zero,the top part of your coment is almost spot on,I go further and state that nothing will eventuate that is proposed by F1 Strategy group for 2017,you said being an
Ozie,I quote you a saying by the great horse racie caller Ken Haward when previewing the odds before the race in particular when a horse is at short odds " London to the Brick On "
telling its unbackable with the bookies,
My firm belieff Ferrari is almost if not equal with Mercedes AMG,the speed traps confirm Ferrari and Sauber as such,we shall see next week at Canada F1 if the traction of the Ferrari been improved, the additional PU will put Ferrari way ahead the weakest link Ferrari currently have is a traction out,that said I do believe James Allison is second to none in the world of F1 and its only a question of time he come with the chassis that is considered a " Bulls Eye ",If I may call you a cobber as I am an Oz a Sydney sider to boot. Reason I quote Ken Haward saying, simply it will never happen either way Mercedes AMG wiil oppose it or Arivabene will use Ferrari veto that hasn't been excised at all but its on a table and in particular should Ferrari begins to win race or two,you can rest assure the will be no changes in 2017,May I remaind you Arivabene is a Phillip Morris man and you don't survive corporate America unless you are good real good,as for Kimi Rainkonen I am sadden to say a yesterday bread,,Gutierrez young talented and money ex Carlos Slim.
Finally, I feel next month the allocation of IPO of Ferrari shares at Dow Jones and Dax Index in EU will make sure Ferrari win in Canada,your thoughts if any
Marchionne is not a man known for his patience. There is a lot riding on "his" quick turnaround of Ferrari's racing fortunes.
Interesting statistic, especially if you consider the fact that Mercedes is more dominant than Red Bull ever was, especially at the start of the seasons.
But is also true that this year Red Bull and McLaren has serious issues, so not a lot of competition for 3rd place.
But still, good effort, I'm glad Seb is back and I hope he soon fights for his 5th title.
Ferrari is clearly the second best car, and Seb is the better red driver, so with 100% reliability as he's had, you'd expect a haul of 90 points over six races (6 x 15 pts). With 98 pts he and Ferrari are over achieving slightly. 3 extra points can be attributed to the crazy pit call on Sunday, and the rest to the win in Malaysia.
A bit unfair to Fernando. This implies Vettel is doing a better job. The reality is that it's an apples to oranges comparison as the car year to year isn't the same, nor are the competitor's cars. Ferrari gave Vettel a better car this year. The big, unanswerable, question is, how would Fernando have done in this year's Ferrari?
Also, the battle for 3rd, 4th and 5th has much bigger gaps than previous years. So easier for Ferrari to collect more points.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when Vettel drove the F2012 on his first appearance with Ferrari. I wonder how it felt after coming from the RB8 that competed against in during the 2012 season (and, for that matter, how long ago was it that a champion got to drive his close title rivals' mount)?
Additionally, Ferrari never provided Fernando with a clear second-best car to collect the points in - although their win totals are alike.
should have, would have speculations are pointless.
History will remember Alonso as the politician and Vettel as a legend.
Well said, sir!
True- but unanswerable. How would Alonso do in the Merc or Manor?
Imagine Ferrari lights it up and does a classic Red Bull move by rocking the second half of the season and Vettel takes the WDC?
One can only hope!
Yes, I too want this Ferrari fairy tale.
@Sebee,
No if or buts it's in the script
Buy some Ferrari IPO shares next month if you can Dow Jones or Dax Index EU
laugh all the way to the bank.
Canadians F1. Ferrari win nothing surer.
I doubt we'll have the rulemakers overturn a fundamental aspect of the regulations in the same way that Redbull managed to achieve with the tyres in 2013. Were it not for that, we'd have all seen a far tighter battle at the top and no single car storm off into the distance.
I can't get over this one KRB.
All these times we've stood in amazement of F1 pilots, and said "I can't believe he did that? That took balls!", and now you're telling me the insured replacement value of those is $920 plus installation?
We have better come up with a better term to describe F1 bravery, and fast!
Haha @Sebee that was beautifully done! Not sure how you snuck that one on there.
As for the prosthesis, I called my buddy up to ask about it again. That was a funny conversation. "What the hell you wanna know that for?" Ok for him to bring it up I guess, but weird if I bring it up again. Anyways, it was a few years ago that he saw it, it was for $460 CAD, and that was for one adult medium-sized ball. I asked who the maker was, and he said Cardinal or Siemens. Thought that last one was appropriate. 😀
Kris the tires were changed a little faster because your favorite driver was almost killed from a failed driver. Not just any driver, YOUR FAVORITE. But in your hate of Vettel, you ignored your love for him to carry out your agenda.
Every other team gave up on 2013, so if the tires were kept the same, not much would have changed. Please don't change your username because you are just too much fun to reply to.
And KRB, stop the suspense man. How much is a pair of bionic F1 certified testis - installed price please.
Right KRB, I'm Googling that.
If you're at all concerned about buying fur but want a proper winter hat when you visit those winter Grand Prix shaved beaver is a humane option. Don't believe me it's real? Why don't you Google "shaved beaver" and see for yourself.
Didn't hear about that one Sebee, but gives an entire new meaning to the phrase 'whole bean coffee'. Judge or jury just felt bad for him I'm sure. Funnily enough, a friend of mine who's a CFO of a hospital was telling me the cost of a testicular prosthetic just the other week. Don't ask me how we got onto that, he just said that he saw an invoice for it, and I guess it just seared the price of it, into his head.
Google "Nicklas Lidstrom testicles" and then tell me hockey players aren't the toughest sportsmen out there. Toughest, and craziest.
I'm so mad people still bring this up still.
It was a mistake! They should have never changed it. Vettel was going to win regardless of the tires that year. Safety my foot! Mercedes or McLaren putting the tires on the wrong way, wrong camber, wrong pressures....arrr!
Reminds me of that guy who crushed his testis with the high gap toilet seat at McDonald's or Starbucks and got a million claim awarded! Because he didn't know how to use the toilet seat properly! I mean talk about a perfect case of Darwin. What's that? You don't know how to use the toilet seat? I don't think we'll need you in the gene pool - crush! Same with the 2013 tire thing. Teams should have been forced to use them right, not make them fail by pretending to be idiots, make Pirelli look bad, and still get their way with the new tires.
Doubt it. Should that happen then Merc would always have the 2nd best car and would always be sure of 3rd place like Ferrari is now. By the time we hit that stage of the season Lewis will probably hold a 50pt+ advantage. Plenty of utterly taltented people, apart from the strategists, at Mercedes to prevent that happening.
For sure Alonso hasn't had an easy time since the speed merchants of Vettel and Lewis entered the sport around 2007.
So due to the fact Alonso isn't as fast as Vettel in qualifying, this means he leaves himself quite a bit of work to do on Sunday as shown by the points difference between him and Vettel.
Now, it will be interesting to see the step Ferrari make in Canada because Lauda was of the view the current Ferrari engine was as good as Mercedes so a significant upgrade could see the team having the strongest engine on the grid.
On the topic of tyres, ever since Pirelli entered the sport, the team has struggled with the harder tyres, further more, has struggled with getting heat into their tyres for qualifying as the cars are gentle on them.
So looking forward to 2016 and beyond, Ferrari need softer tyres which can help them start races from pole or the front row.
You're saying he's had a rough time since Hamilton and Vettel joined, the year after he beat the greatest of all time?
vettel and Hamilton are faster than the 'goat' and alonso and neither ever had obedient number 2's
@Goferet, You're acting like 36 years is old. He was still good in 2012 as we saw.
@ Richard
Actually, Alonso was beating the greatest of all time who was 12 years his senior whereas Vettel and Lewis are younger than Alonso.
I reckon - and I could be wrong - that the "resurrection" of the Red Cars is their engine department finding the equivalent of a Fiat 500 over the winter. Horsepower is Torque multiply by Revs (or BHP = Twisting Force * Revolutions Per Minute if you're mathematically inclined) so the Maranello engineering department have somehow harnessed the massive twisting force of an electrical motor* to their good od fashioned Internal Cumbustion Motor.
*Put your food blender on full speed - imagine if that rotor blade was attached to a driveshaft/rear axle........then you can understand the huge twisting force generated by electrical energy.
RE Luqa:
I should have clarified, I meant the electrical motor working in collaboration with the ICE - apparently Ferrari last year had trouble harvesting and using the full electrical motor to it's full capacity. At many circuits the extra 160 BHP allowed to be used from the battery could not be generated in one lap, which coupled with poor driveability made the 2014 machines quite a handful. Well, that problem has now been rectified.
As for your points on FA and SV..............pretty spot on I'd say. What a driver does behind the scenes is just as critical as his on track action - if anything "pulling the strings" correctly behind the scenes leads to success on the circuit!
I agree with your clarification. That makes absolute sense, whereas your previous comment was incorrect. I'm assuming a case of the brain running faster than the fingers typing away, something I DO suffer from occasionally 😉
Sorry Gaz Boy, but an electrical motor produces maximum torque at close to Zero rpm. As the rpm increase, the torque actually decreases: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motors-hp-torque-rpm-d_1503.html
In essence what you wrote is incorrect.
As to the subject at hand, FA comes across as insecure and thus very self centred and any attempt to be a team player fails simply because it is not genuine. He is also a very political animal, something that is poison to extracting maximum performance from your co-workers.
SV on the other hand is quite prepared to work with the team to motivate success and positive energy. He even, on occasions has helped the mechanics to clean up the garage after the race so that they could all celebrate a success together. Now that's motivation! Success breeds success.
PS Notice on the third photo that "Ginger Beard" is back.........Seb Vet is a "Red Man" in more ways than one. His ancestors were probably giving the Romans a good kicking and stopped them coming East of the Rhine Valley (ironically enough since he's joined a team whose descendants are from the Empire of the Eternal City........).
And those teeth - a bit too perfect and pearly white for some reason (obviously corrective surgery must be popular in Northern Italy), but then that's sour grapes on my part because all British drivers according to "The Simpsons" have got wonky teeth thanks to the dire NHS dentistry..............
RE Redline:
Yes, but isn't Seb Vet German?
I've noticed in recent years, grand prix drivers have all got perfect pearly white gnashers - it must be some sort of contractual obligation, particularly for the Maranello squad: "Teeth to be perfectly clean, white and straight at all times, even after a gruelling race in 50 degree heat."
I wish there was a way where you wouldn't have to see a certain name if you wished as "Gaz Boy" is painful to read.
Wrong. We just have better genetics in Italy, so don't need to rely on corrective surgery to look good.....
I don't understand. Alonso says he doesnt believe that Ferrari is resurgent and there are absolutely no changes from last year. But Alonso is never ever ever ever wrong. Is he? 😀
Lol, saying that and with the information of this article, is like Alonso would be accepting that Vettel is superior because with a non improved machine he is doing a better job. Or maybe not, Alonso as always is right and what he means is that the rest of the cars are worse than last year and because Ferrari is the same they can get those consecutive podiums.
if what we have seen to date is any indication then the mercedes PU is, to all intents and purposes, pretty much bulletproof. the ferrari also seems to be similar. with mercedes having such profound dominance even without any serious upgrade then ferrari would be wise to temper there expectations and plan to make it all happen in 2016.
of course, we don't know what will happen in 2017 but if what is rumoured is any guide then the PU will basically stay the same so further developments will be outside the engine regime.
In China the crankshaft on Huelkenberger's PU broke. All three suppliers have had issues with pistons, sleeves and sundry materials due to higher pressures generated inside the cylinder.
Can't remember the Lotus issues... ANYONE?
kenneth, gotta agree with luqa, there have been zero engine failures amongst the Ferrari-powered teams (33 starts). Can't recall what was behind Stevens' DNS in Malaysia, that is the only possible suspect one. Ferrari have been the team with the best reliability for years now.
Grosjean had power loss in AUS, and then Maldonado has retired with brake issues at 3 races. Not sure if it was just down to the brake materials themselves, or whether it involved any issues with the MGU-K or BBW systems.
Not quite so kenneth, Force India and Lotus have had PU related issues and retirements this year.
@ luqa...yes, you are right but i am not too sure of what reason those retirements were, and if they were due to the PU exclusively. of particular note though the manufacturer teams seems to have got off better than the customer teams!!!! which is what i meant in my original post.
Hi James,
This analysis is just wrong.
They don't have the same car. If you want to compare Alonso and Vettel, you need at least to compare them against an "stable" point like Kimi.
What was the points difference last year between Alonso and Kimi at race six? As a %?
What has been the average qualifying time difference?
Bearing in mind that differences between drivers' performances are exaggerated in midfield cars like last years Ferrari, and masked in frontrunners like this years car. This is because there is more cars in close proximity to one another in the midfield. Nevertheless, it wouldn't harm any one to compare the stats. Note I am excluding races were one of the drivers suffered a mechanical DNF, but driver inflicted DNF's are counted (crashes etc.).
Alonso beat Raikkonen 16 - 3 in qualifying, 16 - 1 in races and 161 - 55 in points.
Vettel is beating Kimi 6 - 0 in qualifying, 4 - 1 in races and 98 - 60 in points.
Raikkonen scored only 34% of Alonso's points, and currently has 61% of Vettel's points.
Taking just the first 6 races from last season, Alonso was ahead 4 - 2 in qualifying, 6 - 0 in races and 61 - 17 in points. Meaning at this stage last year Raikkonen had only 28% of Alonso's points.
Overall, Alonso qualified on average 0.53 seconds ahead and finished the races 33 seconds ahead of Raikkonen.
So far Vettel has qualified on average 0.49 seconds ahead and finished the races 8.4 seconds ahead of Raikkonen.
This does allow us to postulate that Vettel would match Alonso in qualifying, but be beaten in races, perhaps by a pretty significant margin. Although one could make the argument that Raikkonen is performing better this year than last year. Drivers' form does fluctuate after all, and Raikkonen publicly hated the car last year.
On top of that, Massa's results against Alonso are somewhat better than Raikkonen's were (Massa scored 48% of Alonso's points overall), and we know from their 3 seasons together at Ferrari that Massa and Raikkonen were extremely closely matched (Massa beat Raikkonen 25-19 in qualifying, 18-16 in races, and 213-195 in points. Kimi scoring 92% of his points).
Even still, I don't think that is anywhere near enough to account for the performance gulf between him and Alonso. It does reaffirm that Vettel is one of the strongest qualifier on the grid right now, although he perhaps lacks the race craft and race pace of the very best. And of course, being beaten by Alonso in race trim is not a bad thing at all. His race pace is incredible, even in his very close season with Hamilton in 2007 Alonso came out ahead 10 - 7 in races.
Excellent post. Good expansion on Webber saying "Seb is the guy to beat on Saturday. Fernando would have the measure of him on Sunday."
I feel both Sebastian and Fernando simply have great consistency in their respective strengths. Do you feel that's the main strength of Fernando on Sunday? Because we all know Seb is not the most reliable guy on Sunday [Bahrain 2015 as a recent example].
@Oletros
How so? The comparison to Raikkonen their only mutual team mate so far suggests Alonso would have a huge advantage in races. Given Raikkonen's poor form last year I am willing to say that the direct comparison I did may be a bit unfair to Vettel, but I still say Alonso would clearly have the advantage in race trim.
Thanks for the analysis Spinodontosaurus!
The comparison with Massa also makes a lot of sense. Takes part of the "I don't like the car" effect and gives us a bigger sample.
> This does allow us to postulate that Vettel would match Alonso in qualifying, but be beaten in races, perhaps by a pretty significant margin.
Highly doubtful, at least the pretty significant margin
Interesting thought for comparison, Raikkonen versus Alonso, so a stable point to compare Vettel versus Raikkonen. The problem is Alonso versus Button seems more evenly matched. So is Button 6 tenths a lap (the margin Alonso had over Raikkonen, or thereabouts), quicker than Kimi? No.
As a side note, I would say Vettel is quicker than Button, while Ricciardo was quicker than Vettel last year, so must be quickest of this bunch (or not). These team mate comparisons are quite tricky.
Looks like I made a mistake. That's how I remembered it. Only last season as well. Shocking.
the margin was 2 tenths last year from alo to rai and from seb to rai this year its 4 tenths don't just make stuff up
To your point, you would be comparing an established driver that demands #1 status against a new teammate to a new member of the team against an established teammate. Furthermore, you'd be comparing Kimi driving "Fernando's" car to Kimi driving "Kimi's" car.
Just accept the fact that Seb is doing a good job. The strengths of the Red cars for years is their easiness on tires in races, which were their weakness in qualifying. Vettel is showing that he can still drag a weak qualifying car into strong qualifying positions.
Your analysis would also be wrong, although interesting.
We all now last car didn't suit Kimi at all and this one pretty much does.
So like you said: "It's just wrong, they don't have the same car"
You can indeed compare them. Especially in 2010 when the gap between the Redbull and Ferrari was much less than the gap between the Mercedes and Ferrari in 2015.
In fairness to Alonso, podiums and wins are great but Seb will only go one better if he wins a title for Ferrari, any title.
Totally agree Phil G
How many podiums more or less is not the real measure. That must be the final year's outcome. Does he achieve what Alonso failed to achieve? I believe he will ..................... eventually !
@ Aaron Noronha
You misunderstand the comment, and 'old and washed up' is not very nice ..
In all fairness to your logic, how could one win championships wihtout wins and Podiums???? Someone Alonso's PR team has convinced you that he will win the WDC in a car that will never even reach 3rd place. Seriously in a few years if Vettel keeps taking the fight to Hamilton and Rosberg in a car that is clearly 7/10 of their pace it wont be long before Vettel will be called the Alonso. I mean where is the 6/10's that Alonso brings to a car???? I havent seen any sign of it so far. Another 2 or 3 years of such performance and people will be saying Alonso is the next Kimi all old and washed up
Isn't this a Ferreri reaction to Ecclestone's: "Sebastian [Vettel] is also not doing much for F1. People hardly recognize him on the street."?
James, this is an unusually imbalanced article for you.
Ferrari clearly have the 2nd best car and this is shown by Kimi being 4th in the championship.
In all of Alonso's years at Ferrari there was always a superior Red Bull as well as a competitve McLaren as well as other cars such as as Lotus and Mercedes. The Ferrari was not clearly the second best car as is the case now.
You may as well compare Alonso's performance at McLaren to any of Hamilton's. It's meaningless.
Completely agree. The only valid comparative is against co-pilot. In this case we can compare vs Kimi.
However the Tiffosis have to believe they have a good driver. Especially after Bernie latest comments against Vettel.
> However the Tiffosis have to believe they have a good driver
Are you really saying that Vettel is not a good driver?
Actually you can compare this year to 2010 and you'll see that Ferrari were less than 3/10 off Redbull in 2010 while this year Ferrari is more than 7/10 off the Mercedes. And Ferrari were the 2nd best car in 2010 just like this year.
And the 3/10th advantage of Red Bull was in qualifying. In race pace, they were more or less closely matched in 2010
The F10 was the third fastest car. It finished third in the championship, and Massa finished down in 6th overall only 2 points ahead of Rosberg. Massa is not a bad driver.
It did, however, start off the season quite competitively, averaging 0.417 off pole position in the first 6 races mind you (excluding Malaysia where Ferrari royally cocked up their timing in the wet), but after Monaco Alonso was only 3 points off the championship lead with 96% of the leader's points, while Vettel now only has 78% of the leader.
It's been quite a strong start to the season for Vettel, but he was pretty underwhelming in Bahrain, a race that was easily winnable. Alonso averaged 33 seconds ahead of Raikkonen last year, and in Bahrain Raikkonen got within 3 seconds of the leader. Alonso would have had a high chance of winning that race, putting him 6 points of the lead in the championship with 95% of the leader's points.
The Ferrari wasn't the second best car in the first half of 2010. The McLaren was. Then they traded spots in the second half.
There's no competition for 2nd best car so far this year. So Ferrari should be snapping up 3rd and 4th each race.
I'm chuffed as punch that Seb is at Ferrari, and also doing so well. As a tifosi myself, 1 more win this year is fine with me, as long as it's Monza!:)
I have to say I find this whole blame Alonso for the past failure tactic from Ferrari and the Italian press rather distasteful. Fernando didn't design the poor engine last year, or the poor aero packages in the previous years, and yet apparently it was his poor performance that prevented the team winning championships! It is this willingness to blame others that restricts the Maranello squad from winning the number of titles that their budget and facilities should bring, the engine squad blame the aero guys and vice versa, everyone blames the previous driver, or maybe it was the FIA's fault for not bending the rules in their favour, whatever the reason, you can bet nobody takes responsibility for their own errors.
Fernando Alonso is one of the very best drivers ever to compete in F1, it was his ability to score points and punish others for their mistakes that dragged Ferrari into title contention, dis respecting the guy after all his efforts is just ridiculous.
Who disrespected Alonso? He's clearly the best in the business unless you look at the numbers and trophies.
It's just as bad as the people who credit Vettel with developing this year's car. Like he had anything to do with it - they probably started over a year before he got in it at his first test.
Can you reference any of the alleged articles in the Italian press panning Alonso? I have never seen any such criticism. On the contrary, Alonso remains highly respected by the specialist press and fans in Italy...
@TimW Well said, but it is Ferrari after all. Aside from distasteful politics and cheating behind closed doors, what else are they good for? This is the same team that brought wobbling front wings to free practice in an attempt to replicate Red Bull.
Make no mistake, their Malaysian "win" was merely to bring F1's "top marque" back in the picture. We couldn't have them winless two years in a row now could we?
> Make no mistake, their Malaysian “win” was merely to bring F1′s “top marque” back in the picture.
Still with conspiracies?
So why isnt Mclaren in the points or he on the podium in 2015 and where is the 0.6 seconds he brings to every car??? I mean If he could allegedly take a car that was 1.5 seconds slower and win in 2012 then why cant he atleast be in the top 10 if not the podium in a car thats only 2.5 seconds off the Mercedes??? Perhaps the Ferrari wasnt as bad as most people assumed it was
@ aaron noronha...your opening line is totally wrong in the underlying assumptions you are making. the current mclaren is simply a four wheeled test bed and for all intents and purposes cannot be realistically compared to the other teams. once you have understood this then you might be able to make sensible comparisons.
Considering Strategic Brilliance of Mercedes team - a super good analysis from Gary Anderson (hope you do not mind, James): http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/6526/leave-the-mercedes-strategists-alone/?_ga=1.245636740.1475765476.1427119978
It is THAT simple.
why compare alonso's results with vettels. the fairest comparison are those of teammates.
Mercedes should sniff out that antihamilton fan who ruined hamilton's race with that pit call and kick him out before he causes more harm....
Mr. aveli, Seriously, you hadn't expected Vestappen to stop his rapid march forward at 11th position? He was lapping as fast as the leaders. At the rate he was going, it was just a matter of time before he overtook RG, meaning at lest one point in the Constructors bag that he threw away..
That being said your position is valid, but unlikely to have happened under "normal" circumstances, meaning not stuffing the car into the barrier..
That Mercedes are investigating internally did make me wonder if they suspect foul play - even if all the data feeds screwed up (is that *really* feasible?) pretty much everyone down there should've been able to do the maths in their head.
I don't know if we'll ever hear or see the results of that investigation but I can't help thinking that someone is going to walk for it - and I'm not even a conspiracy theorist!
it's only good for f1 if they get rid of the culprit.
Yes LH should've won last Saturday and didn't because the team 'cocked-up'. It's not the first time these things have happened, and it won't be the last. Conversely, when a driver makes a mistake, I can't see the same howls of derision sure points were taken away from the team by the driver's mistake.
Eg, Vestappen: Torro Rosso should be furious he stuffed the car into the barrier and throwing away valuable Constructors points, but all I've heard in that respect is a deathly silence.
Perspective people. As an employee of AMG Petronas Mercedes Benz, as has been pointed out ad- infinitum previously when other drivers were involved, LH is still an employee, paid VERY handsomely, and shouldn't " throw his toys out of the pram" when things don't go his way- no matter the circumstances! I think LH acted very maturely compared to other times, said the right things and will get over this a stronger person. "You win as a team and you loose as a team"..
please remind me luqa, how many constructors are awarded for finishing 11th? I know the points have been adjusted recently but I have completely forgotten how many points are awarded for finish 11th.
I think it's a clever metric. But not the ultimate one. WDCs is.
There seems to be many different stories in circulation about Ferrari's engine upgrade, because according to motorsport.com Ferrari is postponing the engine upgrade near the end of the season.
Maybe they're postponing because they think Canada could be bad for them. If they haven't got on top of their low-speed traction issues, then it could be. Then Austria is sort of the same, right? 3 straights connected by 2 right-angle corners.
Thing I love about Canada is that the pit loss time is among the lowest of the year, so the hit for stopping is not that big. Leads to more tactical pit stops.
James,
The comparison itself is woeful and does not make factors in calculation before the conclusion.
Yes vettel usurped kimi quite easily in the same car and have more points than him in his first season despite being new to the team, however vettel still have more work to do and certainly got some catching up to do as well against Alonso. Ferrari have improved from 2014 by some margin. vettel is very good, however he is no legend yet.
Alonso had to carry the team all the time and the shoddy cars he drove for Ferrari over the last five seasons never helped him either. Vettel meanwhile switched from RBR to Ferrari, yet he finds himself in another decent machinery which is way better than RBR in 2015. I have nothing against vettel, despite not being a seb fan i am impressed with the way vettel have put kimi to the sword already this season.
We shall wait and see, how vettel performs through out the season and for the next season or so, we will get more pointers by then
Some here drone on about Hamilton always having good cars, but the fact of the matter is that Vettel has been in the best or second-best car now, for 7 straight seasons (2009- ). No one else has been as fortunate, not even close. What would happen if Ferrari slip down to 3rd best next year, say? I think he was fully prepared for that this year; I'm not sure it would go down well with him if it happened next year.
Not saying it will, but if and when Renault and/or Honda get on top of their PU issues, each of RBR and McHonda could make a similar sort of leap forward, as Ferrari did this year. Would certainly make for interesting times.
"Some here drone on about Hamilton always having good cars"
Which is also true, as every one of his cars has been top 3 in the WCC (excpt 2007 where Mclaren would have been 1st, if not for Spy-gate).
Alonso's deficit to the championship leader Vettel in 2013 after 6 rounds was 29 points in a DOG CAR
Vettel's deficit to the championship leader Hamilton in 2015 after 6 rounds is 28 points in a revamped ferrari.
Vettel has just lucked into a revamped ferrari. everything is rosy with an improving car your real strength is seen when your pulling out results race after race in an not so competitive car (2013)
Vettel has managed a good atmosphere in an ever improving ferrari but it will take a lot to beat Alonso's race craft he's shown in multiple years with Ferrari.
Also Maurizio Arrivabene has denied using any of the engine tokens in canada.
Correction, the 2013 Ferrari was a competitive car, the 2015 Ferrari is indeed the second best of the grid, the 2015 McLaren is a dog of a car (a horrible one by the way) and Alonso has zero points.
IN 2013 the top 10 cars in Q3 were covered withing 1 to 1.5 second in Q3 the least ever in the history of F1. The advantage of Redbull over the other cars was 0.19 seconds much less than any other time in history when a driver has dominated. The Ferrari was much faster than Redbull in the race until the tyre change was enforced for safety reasons. i.e in the first 6 rounds Alonso had a faster car than Vettel. And it clearly shows from the gaps in some of the races. Round 1 Aus Alonso finished 2nd 10 seconds ahead of Vettel. Round 2(Alonso Retired hit vettel rear with his front wing and his race went down from there, would have finished in top 2 even won) Round 3 Alonso won with Vettel 12.5 seconds Behind. Round 4 Vettel P1 Alonso 37 seconds behind. In Spain Alonso won with Vettel 38 seconds behind. It doesnt take a genius to figure that Ferrari in 2013 was never a dog of a car. In the first quarter it was the fastest car in the 2nd quarter it was Mercedes and in the last two quarters it was Redbull. From where did you infer Alonso drove a dog of a car in 2013???? State facts man dont invent friction. If Alonso is so great why isnt the Mclaren this year a podium regular or even a top 10 contender??? Surely you must wake up and smell the coffee now. It was always the car and not Alonso. Alonso was only as good as his car Even in 2012 his car was a better race car, that even qualified on pole and won a race from the front in Germany(no car that can achieve that gets a tag of a dog of a car) . Ferrari has always build better race cars after 2008 that might not be quick over a single lap but are lethal over a race distance. The only two years that Ferrari underperformed was in 2011 and 2014. In 2010, 2012 and 2013 the car was not as bad as most people assume it to be.(Why dint Alonso win in 2011 and 2014 or in 2015 ???? Clearly because his car dint allow him to) Use your brains dude dont be sold on the Alonso Myth. He might be the best all round driver on the grid but even he has his limitations
Well said.
+1
It will take just one year. The one where Vettel wins a WDC.
Is this a joke? With the insanely terrible Pirelli tires of early 2013, that year's Ferrari was arguably the strongest car on the grid for the first half, and the 2013 Red Bull had nowhere near as much pace over the field as the current Merc. Plus Mark Webber wasn't exactly taking points from the rest of the field the way Nico is currently. So your comparison actually works against Fernando.
Based off this season's results, when are people going to start asking whether the performance of Mark Webber was a more accurate portrayal of the Red Bull's true pace and it was Vettel that made the difference? I think some folks should read more about the work Vettel did to maximize the blown diffuser of those cars.
"Based off this season’s results, when are people going to start asking whether the performance of Mark Webber was a more accurate portrayal of the Red Bull’s true pace and it was Vettel that made the difference?"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours favours Vettel. I think it was just that Webber was that bad as a No. 2 driver. Barring one season, I think he was a criminal waste of one of the most dominant cars in recent history. It worked for RBR because they could talk about giving both drivers equal opportunities, when - with the exception of one season - it was never an issue because one driver was just so bad and never got close to the other.
The 2013 Ferrari was a very competitive package for the first half of the season. Alonso's DRS failure in Bahrain, as well as his crash in Malaysia mask this somewhat. Massa's puncture in Bahrain and crash at Monaco also mask it.
Vettel was .8 off of Lewis's pace in Q3 @ Monaco. Clearly they have other issues than just motor. He was closer to Riccardo (.2) than he was to Lewis.
James,
This line is very misleading: "There is an interesting line in Gazetta dello Sport today, noting that after six races, Sebastian Vettel has scored more points for Ferrari than Fernando Alonso managed in any of his five seasons with the team."
The way this is worded suggests that in only six races Vettel has scored more points in 2015 than Alonso managed in an an entire season whilst at Ferrari. It should say something to the effect of : "after six races, Sebastian Vettel has scored more points for Ferrari than Fernando Alonso managed in any of his first six races with the team."
It's much clearer. Don't you think?
Alonso is Mr Unlucky (make that Mr BLOODY Unlucky). He can be a live grenade in any team too.
Vettel seems to be the total opposite, he's got great wit, smiles a lot, engages in lots more banter and absolutely lacks Alonso's glare of doom.
Little things like that can change the dynamic in a drivers engineering team. Alonso on the other hand was seen by Ferrari as part of the problem, so he was made to walk the plank and is now doing the dishes at McLaren, while convoking with the spirits in desperate search for his legendary 6 tenths.
Sad, but true. Great driver, bad karma.
Who's fault is that bad karma?
How would rotating engines work?
Surely they would be different specs?
Unless they are allowed to open existing engines up, apply the upgrades and re-seal? In which case they might as well be new engines.
What a ridiculous carry-on...
Budet cap, ban wind tunnels, allow selling of ALL components between teams, limit by ICE fuel usage ONLY. Free tyre choice inc. manufacturers and open up aero regs. Simple. That would at least give us cars the drivers want to drive rather than the sad situation we have right now. It would also show us who the real drivers are, the ones with talent speed AND balls, not just the most attractive nationality, haircut and sponsors.
The teams could avoid all this faffing around with their sport by just buying it out themselves. Between Ferrari, Mercedes, Renissan, Lampordiwagen, GM and chums it would be easily doable and they all then skim off the top legitimately rather than under secret contracts.
But that would make sense, and this is F1...
They are not allowed to make changes to the old engine but can reuse them even after introducing a new spec engine.
The old engine (if fit) can be used 'as is' at any point of time in the season.
I got it from another website (F1technical.net) and it was said that since the date of homologation was not fixed for 2015 (a loophole), it meant that manufacturers can modify their engine at any time in a year and get it homologated.
What this also meant was that the teams sharing the engines, might have trouble using their allocation since we cannot say all teams will use the 1/2/3/4 allocation of the engine for that particular race. It depends on how their season went based on reliability.
Hence the directive allowing them to use old spec engine but without any modifications as such.
I was under the impression that only one engine spec could be homologated for use at any point in time..? Even if they could use them 'as is', what good would this be for Renault / Ferrari, especially when testing something like corner exit / rear suspension / diff settings where the lumpy application of torque was so prevalent...?
Any more info on this James?
Good point - I'm checking
Radials and Wankels are banned, rotaries as well.
"How would rotating engines work?
Surely they would be different specs?"
Great point. Am keen to know what the answer is.
The engines will be diffrent specs, they'll probably use the first engine for free practices. Not sure if that is allowed though.
I feel iceman will be shown door if Ferrari loses championship marginally.
I suspect somebody at Ferrari has already pointed out the location of said door to Kimi. For future reference.
Hey dudes. I remember back in yesteryear there was a thing on another site called Das Secret Tagebuch...Schumi's thoughts during his dominant years that often said what he really probably thought!
Has anyone done anything like that for Ham, Vettel, any other driver? I think someone with clever knowledge and writing skills should bring something like that back as a monthly segment. Have some good old fun.
Yeah, clearly Alonso had the 2nd best car over those five years too.
James, off-topic but would you be considering doing a piece about Max Verstappen's crash? I'm surprised that amidst all the "poor-Lewis" articles, there hasn't been one going into details about the crash. He's been penalized for causing the crash, yet even to me (a mere armchair amateur) it did look to me as if Grosjean slowed sooner than expected approaching the corner, and Max has suggested a "brake test" situation. Has Lotus been able to provide any data to prove that Grosjean didn't do anything different on that lap? (I'm not on the side of either driver here, simply wondering what was the truth). Thanks
They would have and according to various site, Grosjean actually braked later than normal.
Verstappen wouldn't have been given a penalty otherwise.
I checked again, he says 'lap before'. In that case, Verstappen should have anticipated it better. He probably didn't think he would close in that much on Grosjean.
I don't think he would have made the corner had he even avoided the crash.
First mistake of a young career. Hope there are not much in the coming races. He has been exciting to watch.
Later than normal or later than the lap before?
Seemed to me that he was struggling on those tyres so he would be braking earlier than Verstappen on new s/softs would expect to brake.
Verstappen should anticipate that, of course, which is all part of experience
Update: Now I read elsewhere Grosjean braked LATER than previously (contrary to what I'd heard elsewhere)! This is just why I wish I could find a full account from a impeccable source!
Rumour is that Ferrari will decide within the next 2 months if they will keep Raikkonen for another year or sign Bottas instead. Bottas doesnt seem to be that hot in qualifying either so i assume its more of a refreshed #2 driver thing instead of an all out team mate war for #1 ? Ricciardo has only served 2 years at Red Bull by the end of this year so he cant leave them just yet after they bankrolled his entire career. Apart from Ric or Bot i dont think Ferrari is interested in anyone else as Kimis replacement. Bottas is out of contract and will want to sign a multi year deal so Ferrari need to act if they want him.
James,
Is it possible to know how exactly the tokens are being used? We know how many tokens teams have remaining and I understand that values are attributed to nature of development or area of the engine developed. Looking at the number of tokens remaining per team, and how this number falls over the course of the season is it possible to do further analysis of what has been done and how this has affected performance?
I, for one, was quite surprised to see that Mercedes have used up more tokens than Ferrari and yet the gains Ferrari seems to have experienced seem (relatively) greater. This further boost being mentioned for Canada also appears to be incredibly good value for tokens. I understand, given the stronger baseline, that perhaps Mercedes had less room to improve but I'd love to know more about what's happening in this area of the sport.
All this talk of "Vettel lucked into an improving Ferrari" and "what would Alonso have done if he hung around" misses one vital and fundamental point - it's a team game.
As a total outsider, one of the things Seb looked to be good at in RBR and seems to be repeating in Ferrrari is he can get the team behind him. Not because it was in his contract but because he earns it - he seems to have the ability to make them cohesive.
By contrast I suspect, great individual driver that he might be, Fernando just might be less a team player, indeed possible counter productive at times.
And there's probably nothing old or tired or slow about Kimi - it looks to my eyes as though most of the issues are about the tyres - it's been a persistent problem for him to get the tires turned on at Ferrari right back to the year when everyone said he'd lost his motivation and was being out driven by Massa. From memory there was a year when both he and Massa struggled at successive races in Silverstone & Hockenheim, spinning, getting lapped etc. The downside of being light on the tires so you can make one less pit stop in some races is you struggle to optimize the performance in qualifying.
Maybe Ferrari do need to find someone who can manage to heat the tyres more consistently in qualifying, but declaring him old and slow when there are periods in most races this year when he's the fastest thing on the circuit is just nonsense.
Alonso was never shy commenting on Vettels ability.,I wonder if his opinion is starting to change??
His Qualifying also eclipses the most 'complete' driver on the grid. Think Alonso will soon loose that title
6 races is an odd mark to measure someone against. I find it puzzling and disappointing. I appreciate the article and isn't James who devised the idea to begin with, bad from the Italians, as usual.
He'd have won at least one world championship for you if you hadn't have given him such a lousy mid-race strategy in a title-decider, you idiots.
How about maybe he didn't crash in Monaco or jump start in China? and maybe overtaken Petrov in Abu Dhabi.
And bogged it off the line in Abu Dhabi losing a place to JB
And exceed track limits passing Kubica at Silverstone.
And being overtaken by kobiyashi on the last lap at Valencia whilst he was moaning about HAM
And crashed in Spa ...
+1
James, thanks for just reporting the facts/numbers and not weighing-in with a suggestion that this means Vettel is the better driver. As has been pointed out, we are comparing apples and oranges by looking at different cars in different years with different competition. Due to the relative lack of competition for the second best car this year, if he finishes a race without making mistakes (for example Bahrain, where he made not one but two errors) he is virtually guaranteed a podium. At some tracks, the Ferrari has been right on the pace of the Mercedes and of course, if Mercedes makes a strategic error, or has mechanical issues he can do better than a third. He has also had 100% reliability. How good is the car? We know that he has outdriven Raikonen in the same car - alhtough considering Bahrain and their relative difference in qualifying times/Championship standing positions, less so than Alonso did in the early portion of last yeat.
Brad
I don't disagree that Vettel is doing a good job but IMO you can't really compare them. This season the Ferrari is the only car near the Mercs on pace. In Alonso's years you had Mclaren and Mercedes in the mix stealing podiums off getting podiums and wins as well as Ferrari and Red Bull. Credit to Vettel though he has got the maximum from the car. Raikkonen needs to pull his socks up.
"In Alonso’s years you had Mclaren and Mercedes in the mix stealing podiums off getting podiums and wins as well as Ferrari and Red Bull."
Which is to say, in Vettels championship winning years things were a whole lot more competitive than they are now. Will people finally put the myth of "Red Bull dominant cars" to rest now that we are seeing what genuine dominance looks like?
There is an interesting line in Gazetta dello Sport today....
Maybe because pointless and ridiculous comparisons only deserve one line...if that.
Boy, Ferrari is putting itself out on a limb. They did improve a great deal this year jumping Williams and RB, but Mercedes is still clearly ahead of them.
The time to start beating ones chest is when you are winning, not competing for podiums. They did win one race but second at Monaco was a fluke.
I think it more likely that Red Bull catches Ferrari soon than Ferrari catches Mercedes.
Italian press naturally keen to make Ferrari look good, hence the comparison. While clearly flawed, we live in an age of information overload. Newspapers are no longer the only place for such 'analysis' and everybody is fighting to shout above the noise. It's the reason behind the proliferation of these "5/10 things we learned about..." and endless top-5 or top-10 listings. Every news outlet or analyst needs an angle or headline so facts and data are manipulated to create one. For all its faults, the original article has spawned an opinion piece by a respected international journalist and dozens of comments from the likes of me.
But, despite all it's faults, I do like the story because it continues to make me think about how great it would be to see two top-tier drivers (of which I believe there are three) lined up against each other in the same team. I have to say, I'd still fancy Alonso to beat Vettel if equipped with the same machinery.
Not to take away anything from Vettel, he is doing a great job, but Ferrari are suffering the same general gap to Mercedes as years past. Vettel's point accumulation has more to do with Red Bull and Williams sliding back towards the middle of the pack than Ferrari's improvements. While Vettel and Ferrari are doing well, nobody can truly match Mercedes, yet.
2010/2015. Alonso and Vettel's first season at Ferrari. 75 points vs 98 points. Alonso (if I am not wrong) crashed in practice and missed Monaco Qualifying. He then managed to finish 6th I believe, after starting from the pitlane. His car was on pace for this race and could have easily had a win here.
This is one example of him not maximising his chances in a very good car. The title that year could have been won by Ferrari early if not for the mistakes early in the season by Alonso.
In comparison, the only sour note Vettel probably has made is the race in Bahrain where he made a mistake every time he came out of the pits.
Finally Vettel being a faster qualifier helps him massively as seen this season when compared to Kimi.
How the relationship will progress remains to be seen. But Ferrari are in a much worse place in 2015 (pace wise to the leader) compared to 2010.
Agreed but remember the Red Bull was quick that year and Ferrari were not guaranteed 3rd place every race like they are this year
Yes, there was McLaren to share the spoils as well but if Alonso is indeed such a complete driver than Vettel, it wouldn't matter right?
I loved Alonso at Ferrari, he was the shining light for the team during those years. But I am only talking of the individual mistakes he made in the early part of 2010 (China, Monaco etc).
We will know about Vettel's mettle in a Ferrari once a third team comes forth with the pace.
@ Richard
But if you recall, Alonso was beating the greatest of all time who was 12 years his senior whereas Vettel and Lewis are younger than Alonso.
Vettel has drove well this year and to extract the most out of this years Ferrari. But I would like to think that if the Red Bull's weren't having a crappy year then he will be finishing roughly to where Alonso has been in his past 5 years at Ferrari (around 4/5/6 and the occasional podium and win).
That's all nice, James, but let's see if he can eclipse him by the last round.. and come better than second.
I highly doubt it.
This story was a fairly ridiculous stretch for any journalist and surprising coming from JA. Why is this comparison even being made? Why not compare it to any of Michael Schumacher's seasons? Or Kimi in '07? Simply ridiculous.
Kimi in 2007 scored 69 pts (adjusted to 2010- scoring system) over his first 6 races with Ferrari, including 1 DNF. Massa had scored 83 pts, with 1 DSQ.
The article in the GdS was just a bit of fun, bit of a stat attack. Of course it can't serve as a fair and accurate comparison, but then there is no model out there that truly can. The best models try to normalize as many different factors as possible, but it's just not possible to properly account for them all.
any number divided by zero is zero so it's not possible to have maximum torque at zero rpm, look at the equation again.
by the way have a look at the monaco race edit on the official f1 site, so funny!
KRB,
As an unbiased fan of F1 you are, and the well balanced views you have over car/driver relative performances (I disagree very few times) you will really like this:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/who-was-the-greatest-f1-driver/
The guy is a mathematician that has done a model to try to determine driver performance regardless of the car. This is, how the WDC would pan out if all drivers were in equal cars. He did an analysis of drivers of all times, where the model ordered them from best to worst, and there is another article of how would the 2014 WDC standings look like if all drivers where in the same car.
In the article ranking drivers of all time he stablished the probability of Kimi beating Massa and/or Alonso in the same car. Amazingly, the model back then said Alonso would beat Kimi with 94% likelihood!! Who would have thought back then (except me and probably a few others haha)?
I recommend the articles to everyone in this site, also James Allen if he does not know them. However a lot of people here will be disappointed with the results!
Gazzetta dello Sport really hit the nerve of certain group of people just by saying that Vettel is again better than Alonso in something. That certain group should just admit that Vettel has done better job than Alonso. That certain group should also look the details and events behind the results instead dog or donkey of a car arguments.
Really
There is an interesting line in Gazetta dello Sport today, noting that Sebastian Vettel has scored more points after six races for Ferrari than Fernando Alonso managed in the same period in any of his five seasons with the team.
Well I think the F1 world has gone mad,
this year the Ferrari is nearly as quick as the Merc and Ferrari have had no challengers for 4rd or 4th place
where last few seasons, Alonso had to race RBR and Merc and Maclaren
What a sensationalist view
Ferrari are guaranteed podiums so of course he will score more point
just an Alonso bashing quip
Regards Mike
"Well I think the F1 world has gone mad,
this year the Ferrari is nearly as quick as the Merc "
I don't think it's just the F1 world that's gone mad.
"let me explain, when your in a car that is fast enough to finish 3rd in every race or 1st if the mercs fail to finish, as the other cars are slower you are getting 15 points per race minimum and that after 6 races thats 90 points."
All true, but this only shows the flaw in GdS statistics. That doesn't make the SF15-T "nearly as quick" as the Merc W06.
Bart
let me explain, when your in a car that is fast enough to finish 3rd in every race or 1st if the mercs fail to finish, as the other cars are slower you are getting 15 points per race minimum and that after 6 races thats 90 points.
but as I said you can read it as you like,
I on my view its not a honest comparison to be fair,
and this is the point i was making
Those statistics don't stop Alonso being twice the driver Vettel is, in the opinion of many.
In the opinion of the team bosses that have voted Vettel as the best driver 3 times? In the opinion of fans who deliberately underrate anything Alonso drives to make him look better?
With half the titles too.
James, didn't Arrivabene target only two wins this season? You mentioned it as three.
Well done vettel and its great seeing ferrari rejuvenated , but the title is misleading , really . More points , ok . But alonso was leading the championship after 6 races and seb is third after 6 races . One other way of looking at it.
quite significant, taking into account that Vettel is now against a 1-2 strong Mercedes, while Alonso was against a 1- strong Red Bull (sorry Mark)
What i never understood about the media's blind love for Alonso and why they keep saying he is most complete driver in f1...
1. He was involved in numerious scandals
2. no team building skills
3. no motivational skills
4. out driven by a rookie hamilton, while he was at his peak himself
5. delusional 6 tenths / arrogance
6. scared to race team mate with equal treatment / dirty politics
7. failed to deveop ferrari
8. fast but not fastest
9. bad career management with mclaren and ferrari
When wil the media admit they wrere barking up the wrong tree/
you forgot to add the fact that his favourite meal is chicken and chips.....
All points can be passed except one: "8) Fast but not fastest". That is the only point which actually talks about driving skills, yet it is so wrong. Put in a box every session, qualifying and race lap times of every driver in hypothetical equal cars, then extract the average lap time of every driver. If you do this, you would see that the fastest lap time is Alonso's, that's mainly why he is the best. Second best time would be Hamilton's I think. Not to talk about traffic skills...
It's useless to try to compare VET and ALO as they have never been in equal machinery
All I know is if I had to bet my house on either VET or ALO winning a race in the same machinery, I'm going with Alonso.
I think the battle in Silverstone last year is a good example of why but I know it's only one instance - I think HAM or RIC would do the same.
Vettel is a great driver, but he really hasn't done anything spectacular this year - strategy has been a big part of his success.
He has been beating Kimi but no surprise there. Nico made him look a bit weak in Bahrain.
Button's making Alonso look quite weak this year, and without the car advantage Rosberg has.
The Ferrari dream team is taking shape nicely as we speak. Mercedes, you have been warned 😀 Don't write off Kimi's ability with his result in Monaco. This new era of Ferrari is really suiting him well. He's phenomenally quick with this car at the tracks he has been great on with the exception of Barcelona this year where he said he took one for the team going back to the old aero package doing all the homework on the upgrades.
He'll be right up there in Budapest, Spa and some other races. I believe he is gonna win 1 Grand Prix at the very least this year. Moreover, Ferrari can rely on him for some home work anytime this year. The relationship with Vettel also works. Unlike before, he is now working with his team-mate for the good of the team.
Mr.Allen, do you think Ferrari could win this year championship?
No I think they are a bit too far behind
Maybe next year
how about now?