Insight
Race Strategy again played a role in creating the main talking point of Sunday’s Chinese Grand Prix.
There was some controversy after the race between the two Mercedes drivers over the allegation by Nico Rosberg that Lewis Hamilton had put him into a strategically compromised situation, relative to Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel.
In fact the renewed competitiveness of Vettel and Ferrari is a problem for Rosberg, but not for the reasons he was highlighting on Sunday night.
Ferrari too close for comfort – but not the way you think
Last year Mercedes had a significant pace advantage over its rivals, which meant that the team strategists could experiment with different strategies – more stops or different tyres – for their car running in second place to give him a chance to win the race. This happened at most venues and led to some great races, like Bahrain and Spain, as well as some later in the season like Austin and Brazil.
The problem with Ferrari being closer to the Mercedes on race pace this year is not what Rosberg saw as the threat of being undercut by Vettel as a result of Hamilton running slowly in the middle stint to save tyres and bunching the field up as a result.
In China, unlike Malaysia, Mercedes had the pace to see off that challenge and in any case the Ferrari struggled to warm up the harder medium tyres, so Vettel’s first lap out of the pits on them did not have the explosive pace to make the undercut work.
The problem for Rosberg is that there is not the scope for two widely differing strategies this year between the Mercedes drivers, because Vettel is close enough that if one of the strategies goes wrong, the team would not get a 1-2 finish, in fact it might even lose the race. It is one thing to switch one driver onto a different tyre for the second stint if you are racing yourselves with the third place car 8 or 10 seconds behind. But quite another if Vettel is sitting 1.6 seconds behind in third place at the end of the opening stint.
This puts more emphasis on qualifying and the start of the race, which is why Rosberg was so deflated after missing pole by 4/100ths of a second on Saturday and why Hamilton had his car pointed at an aggressive angle on the start line, aiming across at Rosberg to cut off any challenge into Turn 1.
Rosberg implied after the race that he was looking to pass Hamilton at the end, as was the plan last season with the varying strategies, but it was never likely to happen here. And not because of Hamilton’s pace in the middle stint backing Rosberg into the Ferraris.
What we are seeing this year – and China was a good example – is that it is difficult to overtake if you are running a comparable strategy to your opponent and you have not got a significant offset in the tyre life. The cars cannot follow each other closely without damaging their tyres by overheating them, so they have to sit behind at a distance and a few laps more or less life on a set of tyres isn’t enough with these 2015 Pirellis to create sufficient pace advantage to pass.
Kimi Raikkonen’s race was a good example; the Finn qualified behind the Williams cars, but passed them both on the opening lap. He was now running behind his team mate on the same soft tyres. So he tried to offset himself against Vettel by running two laps longer in the first stint and four laps longer in the second. Last year that might have meant something.
But here it wasn’t enough to make any real difference. Overtaking in Shanghai is easy on the main straight, but it relies on getting better traction out of the long Turn 13, which leads onto the straight, than your opponent. And this comes from having a fresher set of tyres, or a faster compound of tyres, than your opponent.
Raikkonen said that the Safety Car’s emergence at the end spoiled his chance of an overtake, but Vettel had enough pace to have him covered anyway. Raikkonen would have needed soft tyres or eight or more laps of tyre life difference on the mediums to have any chance.
Everyone is being responsive, not sticking to plan
That said, the Pirelli soft tyres do still tend to hit a “cliff”, where the performance drops off suddenly. Mercedes was conscious of this from Friday practice where Hamilton got about 12 laps out of a set of softs in a long run before the lap times started to go off by a couple of seconds per lap. It looked like they may have some issues with higher degradation than Ferrari.
So there was a real art to managing the tyres on Sunday, to make sure that you had long enough first and second stints – ideally 14 and 16 laps respectively – so that you didn’t leave yourself with too long a stint on mediums at the end. About 25 laps was ideal.
Teams were making their decisions after around 8 laps of the race, once they could see where their cars were placed and what the pace of the two tyres was. It was clear that the medium was a good bit slower, but after losing the start to Raikkonen, Williams chose a different strategy and opted to use the mediums for the second and third stints on both cars as they were simply racing against themselves and the mediums gave them greater flexibility in the event of a mid race Safety Car, for example.
This reflects a wider approach in the field of teams not having clarity on how the tyres will perform in the race and so playing it by ear.
If Mercedes had had a bigger gap to Ferrari they would probably have done the same Soft/Medium/Medium strategy as Williams, or more likely spit the strategies to give both drivers a chance to race at the end.
The UBS Race Strategy Report is written by James Allen with input and data from several F1 team strategists, from JA on F1 technical adviser Dominic Harlow and from Pirelli
Race History Chart and Tyre Usage – Courtesy of Williams Martini Racing – Click on Table to Enlarge
Key: The numbers across the Horizontal are the Lap numbers of the race
The numbers down the vertical are the gaps between the cars.
Look how similar the strategies were within each team; Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams, for example. Only Sergio Perez went for a three stopper to try something different, but it didn’t really work out.
Note also the pace difference between the Ferrari and the Williams this year (factoring in that the Williams went for the slower tyre for the second and third stints) and then also between Williams and the rest.
Thank you James
That is exactly the analysis I was after the other day when I posted that "I think we are missing a story here".
Its a real shame that once again aero will restrict wheel to wheel racing, but it seems to be the constant cycle in F1. We will simply have to focus on cars on different strategies and strengths passing as Verstappen showcased in the weekend.
I think its simplistic to blame the new aero for lack of wheel to wheel action so far this season. The changes from 2014 are fairly minor compared to most years, though i do fear Bernie may well toss out all the work the Overtaking Working Group has done to get the point where last year had great action on track, despite Mercedes superiority.Even with the changes Pirelli have made, again they are not all that major. The fact is that some of the most exciting drivers on track last year are saddled with inadequate power plants (RIC and ALO) or hampered by poorly planned developments (HUL and PER). Kimi made some sweet moves in China on the first lap, and to my amazement, Pastor made some nice passes himself.
James great analysis of the hurdles that the Mighty Mercs face this year may well cut down on the excitement of the Lewis/Nico battles we saw last year, but maybe not..... we have yet to see Nico out-qualify Lewis. Nico didn't succeed in passing Lewis on track last year and seems to have the same trouble this year so far, but i think its inevitable that Nico will start ahead of Lewis this year at some point, then the fun may well begin.
To my eyes anyway, Nico's blaming of Lewis in what happened in China sounds of desperation, but perhaps the anger will spark the fight. Lewis did exactly what he had to do, as Fangio said "the secret is to win as slowly as possible". When it irked Nico, and caused the pitwall to ask Lewis to speed up, he hit the target lap times he was given. Leaving something in your pocket, just in case, is only smart racing. Lewis is responsible only for running his race, not Nico's; it's Paddy and Toto's issue when the 2 have to be balanced somehow.
Anyway, thanks for some great info and analysis again James, mores the pity that this kind of quality is so rare. Sad how opinion, analysis and facts are randomly exchanged in so many places, but glad have one place where each is clearly delineated. But on the bright side, does help with loyalty; keep it up.
@davejc........interesting but i suggest you use all the evidence to draw a conclusion. as far as am aware, it isn't always possible to overtake but hamilton has overtaken more often than not while other drivers have done the opposite.
it is a fact that since hamilton burst into f1, all the f1 sites around the world started to talk about overtaking and the fit went out of their way to introduce drs kers and change the wings to help those who couldn't overtake. look back I. The history of the sport and point out any single driver who has revolutionised the sport in such a way..
please use all the data in support of your good points...
@aveli……"..interesting but i suggest you use all the evidence to draw a conclusion. as far as am aware, it isn’t always possible to overtake but hamilton has overtaken more often than not while other drivers have done the opposite."
yes we are agreed on that i posted something similar further up the page "Now dont get me wrong, I too think Ham is superb at passing,"
So nothing further to discuss on that topic.
Hi James
You often proclaim to be a fan of f1 strategies, as am i.
You must be dismayed then that none of the challengers appear to be interested in trying to challenge!!
Why would a team team that holds a comfortable 3-4 after ten laps not let the cat into the chicken hut, and switch one car to a more aggressive strategy and have a go?? Worst case, it doesn't work and they finish 3-4, or they lure one of the lead cars to cover them, thereby getting a 2-3 or 2-4 or best case they swing a win. Why do we never, ever see this??
Last year, when Williams were in this position, I thought they awestruck- just happy to get a few points...
But I'm disappointed to see Ferrari just fall into line an hold position in the procession.
Why not try something, rather than accept defeat, from an early stage.
Eg on Sunday, after 2 laps on the harder tyre, it was obvious that Ferrari were destined to finish >20 seconds off... Why not switch to soft sand give the leaders something to worry about... Especially when the safety car came out!! Even pitting when the sc came out it would have been interesting.
Btw, f1needs to get its act together when recovering cars. 3 laps to recover that car was not acceptable. Also, should consider the nascar, green-white-chequered concept, extending the race to ensure a race to the flag.
James, why do you think we don't see the more aggressive starriest been rolled out.??
Its easy to be a strategist with the benefit of hindsight... like yourself! Try it in the heat of battle, knowing there are major consequences to any errors you make. Very easy sitting on your sofa shouting this and that..... you say teams NEVER try these things... you dont think there must be a reason they dont? I mean that should tell you all you need to know. They have access to a darn site more info than us and they have to face the consequences of any errors made, unlike us. Its easy to be critical but boy is that a hard job.
They do the most that they can, but if they don't try anything aggressive in a certain race, it's because they don't think the upside is there to take the risk
there will be races where they do
Haha! All sorts of excuses for Rosberg!
The man has neither talent nor balls to overtake. Simples!
Even a 17 year old novice like Max Vesterpen has been showing the old lad with the "big brain" how its done. Rosberg was created by the press, hyped by the press, "5 languaged and physics professored" by the press; now the press is on his case. So the press giveth and the press taketh - ashes to ashes, dust to dust - as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end; 'twas nice getting to know Rosberg.
A bit premature no?
Reminds me of the "Vettel is done", "Kimi should retire" nonsense that was so fashionable on forums last year!
As Dave C points out car (&tyre) tech has a disproportionate effect on how the drivers exploit and manage the performance envelope during the course of the race...
😀
absolutely mega comment!!!
really enjoyed that one
even Webber dismissed Rosberg. Hamilton's a top driver no doubt, but there were a lot of people pretty desperate to make it seem like he had a challenge last year. I think now with hindsight it's safe to say Hamiltons 2014 title was as easy as they come. Brittany was crying on the podium in australia this year, was i the only one that noticed?
This isn't about Ros v Ham or anything as petty as that. Its about the car design.
Aero is part of the problem, but it can be solved with durable, yet sticky tires - similar to what Michelin is able to make for WEC.
I remember when Frank Dernie had some fanciful idea that harder tires and more aero would make for better racing, as it would mimic the rain. Then everyone jumped on that bandwagon championing harder tires.
Then Pirelli shows up with soft tires and the racing improves dramatically. Passes are popping up everywhere, on cars that have the same number of laps on their tires and not inside DRS zones. What gets the recognition? Everyone jumps on the DRS + degradation bandwagon. DRS is the saviour and if the tires aren't falling apart, then the racing isn't good... Of course, they failed to notice that it was simply softer tires that allowed for closer racing; DRS was completely unnecessary and degradation wasn't always playing a role.
What is really needed are good racing tires. We don't need Bridgestone hockey pucks, since Pirelli proved Mr. Dernie wrong. We don't need reality TV tires since we have seen many battles where both drivers have the same tire and same number of laps on them. We don't need teams forced to run two compounds for the same reason. We don't need DRS because of all of the passes we see outside the DRS zones; in fact, DRS only reduces the number of exciting overtakes and replaces them with boring drive-by passes.
And yes, doing something about aero would be good. The 2009 aero didn't help much. Slicks helped. Softer tires helped. Go back to more normal looking aero (no wide front wing and narrow rear wing). Go back to wider cars and wider tires (1992 dimensions would be nice). If anything, limit the teams to single element wings; that would replace your DRS vacancy as drag would increase considerably with inefficient wings and wide tires. Actual slipstreaming could happen where the cars end up side-by-side rather than simply driving by!
That said, the simplest way to get towards better racing are tires that can take abuse, but that provide a lot of mechanical grip. Wider, more durable tires would allow drivers to really race each other. Aero changes would help, but it's really the tires that can make the difference.
Strachan to lead the F1 Strategy Group! NOW!!
These are all excellent points. What I really fail to fathom is why the collective brain power in F1's higher echelons cannot come to the same conclusions....
@malcolm strachn....your post emulates what i have been saying for a very long time. in fact your first para is 'all that is needed'. good post.
I'd like to see Hamilton stuck behind Rosberg on the same strategy before we jump to the conclusion that overtaking is impossible now...
Well, to avoid "aero" we should race where there is no atmosphere (moon?). In Fact, with old cars the aero worked for the car that was behind (suction) and now it works for the car that is in front (turbulence, overheating). I believe that is "life controlled tires" is what restricts fights and overtakings. Teams are more devoted to design a strategy to reduce tire wearing to a minimum instead of giving full power and try to cover the circuit as fast as possible. Fuel consumption and brakes issues come also into account. All this things are more or less caused by the regulations, even the brake overheating, so nowadays catching a rival and overtaking him is no central though for teams and pilots.
will the engines work without air?
With having to drive slowly to conserve fuel and tyres, how can we call this racing?
F1 may be interesting and sometimes entertaining, but anyone wanting to see real racing better see elsewhere...
+1
The key point being the ridiculous "life controlled tyres"
How are Pirelli leveraging their F1 presence for marketing, when they are forced to make tyres with a very limited performance window?
a GP on the moon! Who's got Bernie on speed dial?
hamilton would have overtaken rosberg at any part of the race if he was behind.
these theories only apply to f1 pilots. they don't apply to racing drivers like verstappen, sianz and hamilton.
as far as am concerned, the limiting factor is ability.
this theory about turbulence resulted i. the change in configuration of the front and rear wings. if those theories were correct then we should not be talking about it now because they were meant to have been aerodynamically engineer out of the car designs. or have they forgotten that anything moving through air disturbs it nor matter what shape it is. so long as the cars are travelling at those speeds, the cars will experience those aerodynamic influences. no need to look for excuses for those f1 pilots who lack the ability to pass other cars safely.
pre 2007 there was no action taken on reducing turbulence. now that we have sainz and verstappen to ent again those who want to see overtaking, hamilton should win from pole at every opportunity. raikkonen felt he would've overtaken vettel had the safety not been deployed. he has 16 other races to prove this. i hope no new theories are invented when he does.
what irritates me is that with all these data and theories, f1 cars still race to find out where everyone would finish. why do they race? answer: because they don't know where each driver would finish in any race on any track on any tyre strategy.
i find these data supported theories interesting to read though.
@aveli or @anon or @Anonymous.
Please stop hiding behind aliases, you have been caught out time after time with duplicate posts under different names. We know you adore Hamilton and that's fine, just don't hide behind 3 or more aliases! What re you trying to hide???
I also find it strange that some drivers like Ves could actually pass others while JA thinks dirty air would prevent overtaking from happening.
@markm do you agree that hamilton overtook rosberg on numerous occasions last year? do you agree that rosberg tried and failed several times. don't forget the cars were of the same specification and the aerodynamics have hardly changed from l2014..
you don't have to agree with everything but some things we cannot ignore...
@nickh..............first of all, thanks for showing interest in my opinion and for the record, I have never driven an f1 car but i have seen the races and heard and read a lot of what's being said to draw my conclusions.
these aerodynamic regulations haven't changed much from 2014 nor from 2009. all of last season we all witnessed hamilton overtaking rosberg at will. he even saw hamilton chase vettel down by fractions of seconds per lap until he was close enough to pass at austin's inaugural race. where were these aerodynamic effects then?
hamilton said himself that if he was in rosberg's position on sunday, he would have tried to pass. he also said rosberg didn't try enough. i believe hamilton not only because there aren't many people on earth who know more about racing than hamilton but from the evidence I observed from complete seasons. if all of those data backed theories were of any value, why were they not spoken about last season? afterall there is a complete set of data from 2014 to use to support them. hamilton said the limiting factor is ability and I believe him.
let's assume the f1 season is an engineering experiment, with the control variables controlled by the regulations and the independent variables being the teams and drivers with the dependent variable being the outcome of races, we have only collect 3 sets of data out of 19 and conclusions are being drawn from them? that's unscientific. it is normal to collect all the data and then analyse and draw conclusions from the complete set of data, identifying anomalies and accounting for them.
so any conclusions should have been on that particular race not how all the cars behave generally on all the tracks followed by calls for change in regulations to resolve a problem which doesn't exist.
+1000
this is all just a theory that really we should have had way before tuesday (3 days after the GP) i agree that the real racers like hamilton alonso raikonnen verstappen nasr etc will find a way past if they need to.
hopefully rosberg will take the pole in bahrain so hamilton can prove yet again that he can overtake and win as he has done many times.
the press fell into the trap of making rosberg the equal of hamilton last year when as this hypothosing article has stated there are many factors at play here. the main one being that retirement in oz last year was the equaliser for rosberg as were the other problems thtoughout the season.
hes a good driver but not a great like those already mentioned and some that will be better after a few more seasons. after all nakajima did outqualify rosberg in the williams a few times that the press thought suspect at the time. a quick look at the team mate wars etc will be explanation enough. guess the press in their attempt to find something positive to say about rosser forgot that one.
at least F1 has a talking point because the GP itself was poor.
Get rid of the top aero, maybe make standard parameter wings that the teams can construct themselves but they would all be the same size with none of the fiddly and fragile bits.
let pirelli make a worthy tire for their brand that doesnt degrade and perhaps last the complete distance, get rid of the rule to run 2 compounds so the teams decide how to approach the race for the maximum speed they can get from their point of view.
bring back refuelling with a 55 kg tank and 100 kg limit. then teams can decide the weight of their cars in whatever stint they choose. ie starting heavy and finishing light or the other way round.
and if your old school maybe a manual stick shift gear change would be an option to spice things up
we definately need to change things fundamentally at tech level, these engines are fine even without the noise but the aero and tires make it hard for most to no just understand but even get interested about.
moto gp outguns f1 as does moto cross and us super cross.
love the sport have done for decades. love the drivers as well. the press are too politically correct as is our world now really. they could help us fans out by lobbying the teams and rule makers but i guess nobody wants to rock the boat and lose the comfy jobs.
anyway this blog is entertaining and some articles are well written even if they are a bit biased sometimes. we are all entitled to our opinions though so respect and all that to JA
if youve read my rant then you respected mine so thanks
go ferrrari go merc go honda and sauber et all
SInce you rate Ham so highly, I suggest you look more closely at his record and like most other dirvers all through his career he is regularly quoted as being "stuck behind driver X and couldnt pass because of the aero despite being faster.
Surely you remember Ham being stuck behind Kubica for 20 laps in Abu Dhabi??
Now dont get me wriong, I too think Ham is superb at passing, but its isnt just about skill. Physics and regulations brought about by the v high aero just stops these guys from showcasing their abilities like I would like to see.
completely disagree with your outlook, cant agree with anything you say to be honest
@ aveli "as far as I'm concerned the limiting factor is ability" Good for you. I suppose you have driven many an F1 car to go along with your theory. Did you not watch Australia where Vettel's car turned into a boat whenever he got close to Massa?
The main issue here is that the powers that be keep taking downforce from underneath the car when they should be taking it away from the top surface areas... the extremely over the top and expensive front wings for example.
So JA, what are all the factors that are reducing the close-following ability of the cars? The tires are the same compounds, but just a different construction for the rears. Is it just the increased power from the engines pushing the tires into a bad window? Are the highly developed front wings and low noses having that much effect on the car's wake, versus last year?
Is active suspension still on course for re-introduction? We need cars to be able to follow without suffering too much of a penalty for doing so.
The wake of the diffuser is as, if not more, disturbing that the rear wing wake. Look at the jet of air shooting up from the diffuser when it's raining. When you look at the little feathers the rear wing "pillars" or "bookends" have, these also create vortices behind the car, lowering the pressure behind the car to extract more air from the diffuser to generate more downforce. These little vortices are essentially low pressure rotating air that must play absolute havoc for the chasing cars front wing. The reality is that it's not really just the wings and diffuser that create the most damage, it's the new found way to control flow structures (over the last couple of years) using vortices. Some of them like the Y250(?) is created under the nose and flows around the sides of the car, bringing in more air from the sides and accelerating it using the coke bottle to increment the amount of air that reaches the back of the car and at higher speed to again generate a low pressure area behind the car and improve the function of the diffuser.
As far as I understand it the use of vortices has been around for a while but only became fully mainstream after the 2009 aero regs. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Newey who learned how to control them properly. They must be painful to model.
Anyway as I understand it is beyond the wings and diffusers and no matter what it's done engineers will only find a way around it. So I assume it's down to Pirelli to try and make tires that can cope with the sliding a little better.
When a car follows too close, it loses clean air and thus makes less downforce. With less downforce, the tires start to slide more thus they wear out quicker. This has been an issue for a while, just not all of a sudden.
The really sad part is these "newer" cars with the wide front wings and horrible tall and narrow rear wings were designed to promote overtaking.
Time to go back to the drawing board...
Gettng rid of the plank (or reducing it's height) and simplifying the front wing would probably help overtaking, as it would generate less downforce from the wings and allow more ground effect, thus making it a bit easier to follow other drivers. Maybe the diffuser would need to grow a little too. The difficult bit is to balance the effects so you'd get about the same net downforce.
Get rid of the plank.
+1 good analysis.
what has changed in the areo rules this year from last to make the cars harder to follow?
If Rosberg were affected by Hamilton, would Vettel not be similarly affected by Rosberg and then would not be able to overtake? So what are we talking about here?
As Richard said, the front nose has changed, so that could have changed the entire airflow around the car. I'm not sure, but maybe the new titanium plate has meant an increased ride height, and therefore less downforce generated from the underbody? That's the best downforce to allow for following. Any increased downforce that increases drag will by definition increase the turbulent air effect when following.
The front wing has changed, reducing ground effect. Ground effect is better than top wing aero as it helps cars follow other cars through corners, as ground effect aero is disrupted less by the hot, fast-moving air coming off the back of the car in front.
It was the same as last year for tire vs aero issues. The reason why we are seeing it more now is that Ferrari is much closer to Mercedes so Mercedes cannot gamble with different tire strategies for both drivers. They both have to run the same optimal strategy.
I think the problem is more to do with the tires. As Nico said when he tried to follow Lewis too closely it shot his tires.
A more telling story is the state of F1. If you think about it, James posted 2 articles after the race: summary of the race that right now has 174 comments and the story related to Rosberg vs Hamilton relationship with 422 comments. It seems that personal relationship is a much bigger and more exciting story than races.
Did you watch Moto GP races this year?
AledD
You are so right. Personal characteristics are such a distraction from appreciating the drivers skill.
I am sorry that we are loosing you to Moto GP. I will miss your contributions.
Alex - see above and try to understand what you are seeing.
Take a look at say the 2004 season or even 2008 before you decide this year is fantastic.
Its completely different classes within one race.
Like GP 2, Gp3 and F1 all in the same race at the moment!
I am not going anywhere, I enjoy this blog a lot. Just mentioned that I started watching moto gp as I discovered a lot of action there.
yes moto gp rocks, as do the riders
Moto is better this year than last year where there is one guy that NO ONE could touch, and the year before. But we're all wondering what the real competition is doing down there in Australia, not taking the second Honda seat?!? Coming in cold could make Marc look even better! Happy to see Vale fighting in the championship, and the re-emergence of Ducati (Audi!!!)
Your point is well taken.
But....
We have (holding off, for a moment, of consideration of a Mercedes, 'championship management' latitude conspiracy), an emergingcompetition.
We should savour the moment ,because, Ferrari, I am foretelling now, WILL CATCH MERCEDES THIS YEAR!!
there it is.
And I don't think McHonda is as far behind as they seem and the pundits ever obsessing suggestions. McHionda are tweaks away being right at the front. And we know that there is one driver who will do anything to berat Kimi-Vettel at red, and another driver who can sit back, watch the carnage, and go on to bag the points.
Yes, China was a drag, but the threat of Red is confirmed as real, and it will not be the same with Mercedes and all of the latitude to try any strategy and still likely end up with 1-2; those days are over!
Luckily, we don;t have to wait too long to see another variant of circuit, and see how the dice rolls for the silver and red.
@deancassady,Hi there,I love your CC abloody good drop.Dean you have jump the gun some what, I meant a reference to Kimi,nick name iceman, I called him icerabbit for his briliant race speed,thus my remark him loosing some of his shine,I am fully aware of the word ICE and its vocabulary,it was never my scene,I am a man from down under the best joint on this planet,a dinky-die am I when I choose to go bit " Feral "comes the weekend
I choose to hit the road towards the " Black Stump " territory where the wild gives you any trill you may choose. As for WEC love it,the sheer competitiveness in particular the class of the GT GTE GTAM GTpro that include the brands such as ,Aston Martin,Audi,Bently, BMW, Ferrari,Lamborghini,and of course Porsche,in addition LMP1,LMP2,The LMP1 would be equal if not more advanced then F1,the amazing thing is the both categories is control by FAI ? in one category there's no tonkens,,I do enjoy Blancpain events , but you can't go past La-Mans where 250,00+spectators attend on the race day,Dean ever heard a lady saying he's not a stayer ? and La Mans is all about that
Have a good one !
Hey Gogo:
you are very enlightened, but don't go dissing the ICE; I'm Canadian; you either come to terms with it, or suffer for your whole life! In the F1 circus, ICE is the northern hemisphere stone, or vis a versa; I reckon you know what I mean.
That business on the radio with ICE comedy, I think. (at the time, of the otherwise borefest, I laughed aloud!)
What do you think of the formula in WEC and aspects that might work in F1, i.e. fuel equivalency and more open PU design concepts?
@DeanCassady.com,a right on in regard to Moto and the real thing down under named Stoner, Gigi Dall'Igna should place a phone call to Casey Joel Stoner and strap him on 2015 Duc then we would witness a very good and simply awesome !
As for the boys in Red a question of time one may say,one must bear in mind it was Mercedes who brought updates for China F1 not the Ferrari still the same ex Maranello.
Bahrain this weekend will be interesting, though I do look forward to Barcelona next month when the boys in Red will show their ware,Perhaps I am getting old and grumpy but somehow I feel the ICE Rabbit lost a bit of shine? is getting angry , yelling over the radio get them out of the way,he 's showing frustration or the age.
I think this "competition" exists more in the Minds of ferrari fans than it does in reality. Merc have Soooo much in hand. Tires limited them somewhat in Malaysia and China but they will sort that out. They are learning and developing all the time. I dont believe merc have turned it up anywhere NEAR the levels they can... They are being very wary of reliability, their achilles heal last year, and thinking ahead with only 4 engines to race with this year. If Merc turned it up to 11 I think the naysayers may have something to Nay about and the ferari fans something to reflect on.
MotoGP is absolutely amazing. F1 is a dud. Has been for a while.
See my comments above.
I have watched (and raced in) both two and four wheels for 35 years.
Motogp at this time has three distinct classes within it.
This years moto GP is manipulated in an unprecedented manner to allow certain manufacturers a leg up (Ducati are hardly poor!)
To suggest say Dovi is an equal of say Rossi or MM - oh please....
He had a works Honda for years... 1 win. Ever.
That's manipulation and god forbid F1 goes there. Its bad enough now.
is that why motogp has a larger following than f1?
Moto gp does show us overtaking.
F1 needs to reduce aero around the bends and increase top speed to keep laptimes at a good pace. The opposite to what it is right now. Simple.
@JamesAllen
For all the reasons everyone talks about after every single race these days. I for one love the sport and wish we'd all shut up a bit, as I'm positive it makes people make rash decisions on new regulations to "spice up 'the show'".
It *is* a show, but only because people love watching racers race.
Bring the cars closer together and all the other stuff falls away.
- No ship to shore radio.
- (Slightly) Less focus on aero
- Around 1000bhp is needed, as other formula and categories are getting close to F1 speeds
- Keep same regulations for at least 3-5 years and plan them ahead, consulting *all* teams
- Equal wealth distribution (obviously), with driver prizes by FOM for 3rd, 2nd, 1st
- FOM and F1 to be seen to help maintain the races we all love - Spa, Monaco, Hockenheim, Silverstone, Monza - at least
- Allow additional testing the further down the grid. Eg. WCC places 10-5 get additional test day on Monday, or more wind tunnel or CFD
I reckon grand prix racing could be vastly improved by bringing back a mild version of ground effects with sliding skirts. I may be in a minority, but bringing back the "venturi effect" would mean cars could follow closer in high speed corners without losing downforce: at the moment the importance of downforce generation from the front wing means a car following another through a fast corner is virtually impossible without destroying the front tyres or running wide. To go forward you have to look back.....................to the days of venturi tunnels and sliding skirts. Underbody downforce and suction is the way to go.
James, to respond to this on Sean's behalf. I've been a longtime F1 fan but in the last 7-8 years I've focused much more on MotoGP. I still watch F1, probably 5-6 races a year though I do still follow it closely online. On the the other hand I won't miss the MotoGP if at all possible and even if I do, I'll download and watch later.
Points are in no particular order:
- F1 doesn't see drivers punished for their mistakes anymore. In MotoGP, even a slight unforced error and the rider is out of the race. In F1 nowadays with the massive runoffs we see even huge spinouts and ridiculous moves go unpunished (and obviously punishment by stewards is the last type of punishment anyone wants to see). Track limits seem to have become a suggestion rather than the hard limit gravel traps were, both in terms of the driving and also visually. We need to see real calculation between risk and reward on the track. BTW I'm not against safety, but just needs to be a serious reassessment.
- The cars' reliance on grip generated by the aerodynamics. There are many opinions on this, but in my opinion a return to a focus on mechanical grip would be beneficial. If lap times are slower so be it, lap times are not why we watch F1. There will still be a limit and drivers will still be pushing against it. There are a myriad of other factors involved but I still think MotoGP is a good example of this.
- Micky mouse initiatives to "spice up the action" like DRS, instead of finding a real solution. Personally I'm more tolerant of the boost buttons (ERS' etc) as this is technology at work, and both drivers have access to it, so it's a matter of tactics. DRS is a gimmick and not something that should be in a real sport (along with double points for certain races).
- Engines; there needs to be acknowledgement of what F1 is - the pinnacle of 4 wheeled motorsport. MotoGP went to 800cc and realised what a bad idea this was, for a number of reasons. I don't disagree with keeping the technology involved relevant, but F1 is not about saving fuel. I couldn't agree more with things like ERS; new ways to harness wasted energy and push the cars fast - what racing is all about. While I do think the new sound is not make or break, it was a step backwards, it made F1 less visceral, however I do think turbo tech has it's place. V8's with better ERS and possibly a rev limit? Just an idea. Building on this point:
- Costs and the level of competition. MotoGP is also affected by this, so not entirely relevant to discussion but could not avoid bringing this up.The ridiculous sums involved have really decimated the competition. Obviously having deep pockets always helped, and no one ever one in F1 while being poor. However the status quo has gutted the midfield and back of the grid, it's harsh to say but many are making up the numbers. If you don't have a billionaire benefactor there is almost no chance of getting to the sharp end, and even being a solid midfielder requires sums that are insane. Of course this is a massively complex issue but something needs to be done.
These are the main issues that come to mind. Would love to hear a response / rebuttal.
John
Presented as FACT rather than opinion.....that comment is a DUD!
I've watched quite a few boring MotoGP races. Always the same few bikes out front. If one of them, mainly Marquez, gets behind at the start, he just sticks around until the end. They are completely predictable. F1 is too. There is still quite a bit of overtaking in F1, more so than in the past, it is just over a longer per race period.
May I DrSean?
There was this:
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/renault-confirms-engine-deals-with-red-bull-lotus-f1-26048_1.jpg
Or this:
http://formula.hu/uploads/Gergo_kepek/Archiv_2014elotti/F1/mercedes_v8.jpg
Perfectly balanced, understandable, and not pretentious. Clean. Simple. Oh boy, could it ever sing!
Now there is this:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/uprs34laef.jpg
My goodness, what are all the appendages for? This is green? This is modern technology? I'm supposed to be impressed by all this crap being strapped onto a green engine that's made faster by burning more fuel at strategic times?
If F1 wanted to develop the most complicated engine ever made...sorry, PU, ever made, that has no real purpose except to be complicated for complexity sake, they sure as hell succeeded. Tell you what - I would NEVER choose this engine complexity as an option for a car. In fact, I bet you that in a few years when time has it's way with the 918s and the LaFerraris and McLarens that try to put this engine...sorry, PU, design into human hands we'll see what a lemon of a design this hodgepodge of junk is. But by then...sorry, out of warranty! Now dear sir, we're going to need $70K to replace a few bits of this drive train in your ultra luxury whatchamacallit.
Hey F1, listen to what VW said long time ago...UMPIMP MY F1 ENGINES!
Yet you still watch and bother to post on here
Ooops
Full = dull
Ots= it's
Fistance=distance
Your= You are
Dr.Sean
Moto Gp is ok Rosdi taking the first race. But its full when you have a lighter rider in Marquez riding out into the fistance in America & race being won in the first 10 laps.
So similar to F1. But F1 is far more exciting in trrms of Pit Strategy Tyre Strategy, Off track Politics, Driver flare ups , Team Dynamics & Car development.
Moto Gp is getting into a rut like they did in the mid 80s & Superbikes all of a sudden is far more competitive & exciting. It looks as if Super Bikes will surpass Moto Gp in this decade & Moto Gp will have to find ots footing again.
Only positive for Moto Gp is that the Doctor Valentino Rossi is still racing a true Legend. Marquez aka The Jokerr just doesn't do it ...unless your Spanish.
Moto Gp needs to be revamped even though it has tried this season . It looks flat at present.
On a positive regarding women drivers Silvestre came 4th in Indi in USA in Indycars.
The racing in MotoGP is non-stop. The "racing" in F1 is largely intermittent. The F1 offseason used to be the result of an amazing technological tour de force - 10-12 teams bringing the best they have to offer. Now it's 8-10 teams doing what exactly? The tracks do not facilitate overtaking. It is still an aero formula which means that the racing suffers when trying to "motor past" an opponent. The result is what is expertly detailed in the above article - pitting on lap 14 vs stopping on lap 16 resulting in victory.
And what do we have, an almost-entirely-opaque governing body + commercial-rights-holder hell bent on going backwards, vis a vis V8 engines.
As for MotoGP, did anyone watch the races last year? Did anyone watch Qatar or Austin/COTA this season? While F1 focuses on who should pit when, MotoGP is racing.
You can't just say that. Why? Give us something constructive
it's all part of f1.
I know what you mean but I'm not sure of you can draw this conclusion. Race summary & analysis deal more with facts so there is not too much to debate afterwards.
The Rosberg - Hamilton feud however plays on a human level - and when emotions are involved we are more likely to debate this and add our own subjective viewpoint.
Well....check comments from Bahrain GP from last year where we really had a great race. Talking was done on track.
Also, the race summary was only the "lead" article on the site for about an hour or so, while Rosberg vs Hamilton was the lead article for the best part of a day.
We always get lit up by this stuff.
Think Multi21, Spa last year, Alonso Testing thingamajig. It's fun and passes time.
But the state of F1 is challenged as these PUs don't add to the show right now, but rather compromise it. You see, today people expect technology to be simple and beautiful. I do. Today's F1 with these PUs is a desktop PC that has crazy amount of peripherals and junk inside it to overclock and cool the CPU.
When it should be a MacPro with a beautiful clean 3L V8 screaming in joy.
Yes I did watch the MotoGP race this past weekend and was once again pleased at the competitiveness between the Repsol Honda, both Moviestar Yamahas, and the Ducatis. Marc Marquez is a genius, no?
Looking at some of the comments posted by 'fans' of particular drivers I can't help but wonder what Jochen Rindt would think if he were still with us. Or Jim Clark.
It is always good to see people getting more involved with both two and four wheel racing but as always, having been an observer and unusually, participant and successfully of both forms or such, you need to see beyond the obvious.
For example. No doubt all are loving the 'overtakes' in motogp but are you aware that this years motogp actually has three distinct 'classes' in the field? So did last year.
You see the Ducatis overtaking in say Qatar down the straight like others are on the brakes. With riders doing such that despite years on the best bike previously for example yet only having one lucky win against chaps with dozens or many dozens... Could that be because they have unlimited chassis mods, 12 engines per season that can be tuned at any time., special tyres and a 20% extra fuel allowance? Oh but you must use the organised electronics (that you have developed with said manufacturer anyway - which F1 already do) Or is it because Dovi is a better racer than Rossi (really?) come on...
Yep I am happy to see a more interesting racing field but please... Hobbling the best to encourage the worst is not racing. Thankfully some are aware enough to see a MM or Rossi leading completely against the odds (4 fixed engines no chassis mods 20 litres of fuel and no qualy tyres) is where you realise the difference in talent. Providing you know that is the case. At the very least the commentators should!
Motogp is fundamentally different to any four wheel racing and overtaking will always be easier when there is that much more room and thus much more interesting to a casual observer. It is also a serious skill on two wheels. Trust me when I say there is not much room for error. I have dozens of broken bones to confirm it.
But don't forget. Motogp just a few years ago was over in three laps while it settled into a train, as the best pretty much of all time recently noted.
Thing is at the moment, F1 is heading for such manipulation and realistically its not the way forward.
Its then allowing those that frankly should never win get a shot (come on - Maldanardo?) at the expense of those that should.
God forbid the good guys win all the time. What a waste of talent... Its much better as an entertainment show for the masses with everyone winning deserved or not....
Yes.. I wonder. Please enlighten us. You think these guys were the epoitome of grace and chivalry? Let me assure you that had there been the commincation channels that are open today available in Clarks and Rindts era there would just as much talk about them being arrogant, selfish etc etc..... Times have changed...... People havent.
I think its a case of this horrid disease people have of looking back to the past with selective glee. Racing, People... AND THE WORLD... had just as many problems back then. So Jochen Rindt ,Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, Fangio ETC ETC were just the same as the people we see on the grid now...
wake them up and find out...
To: Gudien
I would add Juan Fangio, the late Mike Hawthorn, Luigi Musso and Jean Behra to your pair. But then, they were my heroes in my school days!
Also, a big thank you to JA on F1 for these reports - greatly appreciated.
I started watching Moto GP last year, watched a full season. Th overtakes you see in Moto GP are amazing, I can't understand how they do it. They overtake each other a couple of times per lap.
I make a point of following Moto GP . . .
In order to watch real and exciting racing.
As for the Hamilton/Rosberg pantomime –
I’m beginning to think that it’s been artificially contrived in order to broaden F1’ ‘social media’ reach. I wouldn’t be surprised if they sit down amicably before the weekend and agree on an ‘entertaining’ script to play out. They’re probably having a damn good laugh together at the fans’ comments right now.
@alex-SuperT
Fortunately, the apocalypse will be confined to F1 –
and the event won’t be televised –
So it’ll be business-as-usual in the real world.
WWF1?
Did you sell your house in 2012 and bought a bunker somewhere in the Highlands to protect you from the nearing apocalyps as well?
Spot on mate. James does a wonderful job by providing detailed and intricate analysis. Personalities divide opinion and flare the emotions. So we see more comments on personality and relationships.
Aah yes Pirelli did a good job with the tyres for with unpredictable tyres again the teams and drivers are forced to improvise as they go along.
Luckily for Lewis this time round, he had Rosberg as a buffer for if it was the Ferraris in the rear, Lewis would have forced to push with the knowledge the Ferraris would pit later which will be more of a problem on the rear limited tracks like Malaysia.
Regards Rosberg, there is still hope for him because after Malaysia, the team said they will be forced to switch strategies in a bid to defend from the Ferrari attack e.g. On a 3 stop race, Rosberg could take on the softs at the end as the rest are on mediums in a bid to get a jump on the competition towards the end.
On the topic of it's hard to overtake cars with similar strategy, I think it's better to reserve judgement till the time someone like Lewis or Alonso or Max or Nasr qualifies behind their teammate because we saw in Malaysia Rosberg was a little over cautious in the overtaking stakes.
Overall, with summer and it's heat wave fast approaching, we wait and see what magic the Ferrari pitwall can whip out with strategy.
You've just contradicted the article.
The whole point of Rosberg being worried, is that they can't afford to do different strategies, as the Ferraris are close enough to interfere with the counter strategy.
Think about it, if Rosberg was to take the slower medium tyre in the middle stint, Vettel would do the same as Lewis and most probably overtake Nico, that then creates a situation where Rosberg will need to pass a Ferrari on track.
So mercedes will play it safe and just shadow the lead drivers strategy, meaning the only way the second driver(Nico) can win, is by pass the leader (Hamilton) on track, which Rosberg simply cannot do.
@ Dan
But then why would the team say they will be forced to split their strategies in the future.
Ah, don't mention heatwaves yet Goferet - expect a sweltering summer you end up with a summer washout like 2011 in Canada, Silverstone and Hungary! Although, come to think of it, a rain like Montreal 2011 does produce wild, unpredictable and classic racing.................
@ Gaz Boy
Oh no m8, summer washout is a thing of the past I am afraid ever since green house gases begun baking the planet.
But for sure races like Montreal 2011 could only happen under wet conditions.
Generally speaking, my perception with Nico is, even being first or having a small advantage, looks in danger having Lewis behind, whereas Lewis looks in control at all times. Nico is the result of outspoken frustration, his only chance this season is mechanical issues with the other car.
take it easy on him, his wife is pregnant.
Nico seems like the kind of guy who'd use the term "we're pregnant." I hate that term. Perhaps he's driving slow to protect his half of the baby...
Couldn't Williams have tried the option tyre for the last stint? Or was their degradation too high to get a long enough middle stint..
VG Lewis also had to do 3 more laps longer than Nico too. Lewis had to do 18 laps on his 2nd stint, the data from free practise showed Lewis could only get 13 laps out of his tyres, and I read somewhere else the tyres reached the cliff by lap 11. So of course he had to pace himself if he had to get 18 laps out of it, so it makes it even more bizzare that Nico went on the radio telling Lewis to speed up with the data he had from the practises.
Oh never mind, from the chart they weren't in contention. I never found anything on the recording (I was away) to explain what happened to Lewis's final run in Q3. Someone..
It was good when there was position, lap time and gap data available on tablet/laptop. It's all disappeared behind a pay wall I'm not prepared to climb now
Here are the sector times for the 2 runs in Q3
Run 1
HAM - 25.113, 28.698, 41.971
ROS - 25.226, 28.738, 42.098
Run 2
HAM - 25.139, 28.710, 42.117
ROS - 25.141, 28.752, 41.931
VET - 25.216, 29.201, 42.270
The first run from Vettel was on used tyres so did not make sense.
Looks like Hamilton was generally a bit slower in his second run compared to his first run, however his first 2 sectors in the second run were still faster than Rosberg's sectors and he lost all the advantage in the final sector.
Scanning the traces, was it really the case that only Hamilton was able to put in hot laps before pitting? If so it shows how marginal tyre life was and the wisdom of his tactics to preserve his tyres.
" was it really the case that only Hamilton was able to put in hot laps before pitting?"
Sort of. Yes, but due to the fact that he was the only driver with nobody in front of him rather than due to any magical ability he possesses.
I think those laps prior to pitting, when read between the lines, highlight the gap to Ferrari artificial at best, and completely rigged at worst. Bernie/Lewis/Toto did have a closed meeting just prior to the race. I think it's safe to assume we're watching artificial races being managed by Merc for the mercy and good of 'the sport'.
James, would it be illegal (FIA/European law/etc) for merc to artificially manage the gap in a way far beyond tire/equipment protection, but for the sake of an appearance of competition?
No
When two teams mates are put on the exact same strategy, then not much will happen unless the leading driver makes a mistake because they can cancel each other out. F1 is about pushing and taking risk.
It is a bit unfair to say that Kimi could not attack Vettel, we saw he had more work to do than Vettel at the start, so therefore would have taken more life out of his tyres than Seb. Not to mention looking at qualifying, he did not have the balance right with the softs. We did however, see Kimi come back in the race looking like a threat once he was on the medium tyres as Vettel looked like he was fading away.
We saw Max Vestrappen go for the overtakes, we saw McLaren's race unfold for Button because of the split strategies they had Alonso and Button on. Button started out the strongest, but then Alonso came in the race and applied pressure on Jenson and hence.
We keep on hearing turbulence, tyres and turbulence and TYRES but who cares that is why the DRS is there. If today's drivers cannot even attempt to exploit the DRS in a competitive car then what is the point in F1? IIf Hamilton was the one behind Nico, he might have asked Nico to speed up too, but he would have pushed a lot harder, unlike Nico, even if he did not overtake in the end.
We watch F1 to see racer do what we can't do, not to be left disappointed because the drivers are not trying hard enough, then has a cheek to blame his team mate. Once the first stint finished, Nico drove like he was scared of getting a speeding ticket. I agree with Bernie when he stated that F1 is a drivers championship more than it is a constructors championship. Let the drivers race, get on with it, make their own calls and the show would be far more entertaining. Lift the controls, constraints and restrictions the pitwall has over the drivers.
Never take anything Bernie says at face value. There's *always some marketing angle.
F1 is by its very nature an engineering/constructors competition.
If you want a "drivers" championship go to Indycars where the cars are more or less identical.
Regarding the article in the Daily Mail (which wasn't very impressive)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3037263/Stick-cork-Lewis-Formula-One-ace-Lewis-Hamilton-sprays-hostess-girl-face-champagne-winning-Chinese-Grand-Prix.html
How come the podium hostesses aren't given Champagne bottles so they can be part of and active in the celebration? It would be great TV.
@sebastian.....i tend to spread thing am impressed by and shy away from those which don't impress me, if you were enhancing the intentions of the author of that article by posting it on here then i am concerned you may be suffering but on the other hand, if that wasn't your intention then my statement about mental mental health disorder doesn't apply to you at all.
it wasn't meant to offend you so if you are offended please find it within you to accept my apology.
Very disappointed with Hamilton's arrogant behaviour towards a very soft target who was clearly uncomfortable with the situation. I dont think it was sexist behaviour as some do but was crass and insensitive. Of course she is not going to complain if she wants to keep her job. If he seriously thinks that this makes it ok then he is very much mistaken.
here is another take on the subject. i hope you spread it like you did the complaint, unless you also are suffering from the same disorder...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/11541634/Shanghai-model-defends-Lewis-Hamilton-over-champagne-drenching.html
aveil I saw the podium cermony so I was aware of the context, and as I think you could see from my initial comment, I was not impressed by the original article. I am happy they eventually spoke to the hostess.
That said, I don't think you should accuse people of having mental health problems. It is unbecoming.
even more interesting, hamilton says he doesn't understand why they chose to bring that up. he surely knows that it's a mental health problem.
http://m.crash.net/f1/news/217665/1/hamilton-never-intended-to-disrespect-in-podium-celebration.html
here is the truth, even more interesting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-3041717/Podium-girl-sprayed-face-champagne-Lewis-Hamilton-celebrated-Chinese-Grand-Prix-victory-says-not-offended.html
Because it would offend *somebody?
Surely it is better to offend those who are conservative than to perpetuate the view of women as objects to admire for their beauty and nothing else, no?
On that note, would be better if they chose podium girls based on sports achievements and let it be know what they have accomplished.
What happen to Grosjean at the 1st pit stop, I remember him being few secondes in front of Maldonado when he stopped and Came out behind?
Otherwise a bit worrying if this year tyre-car combination make it hard to follow and overtake. I hope it was due to the snail type corners from typical track from Shangai. Let see for Bahrain...
If Räikkönen hade taken the medium compound in the second stint and soft for the last stint, is it possible he could have had a chance on Vettel or would the drop off been too high at the end of the stint?
Yeah weird that Ferrari didn't try this strategy with Kimi, they had Williams well covered so they could risk it. Guess they were not interested in Kimi racing Vettel since he was racing Rosberg for the majority of the race.
hamilton gave us a clue why they didn't.
It was good to see that Ferrari were calling the shots this time and Mercedes simply reacting. Looks like they have learned their lesson.
from what i saw, ferrari tried to play mercedes and Mercedes stuck to their game plan. they didn't react to any of the ferrari tactics.
i couldn't believe it when the ferrari mechanics came out into the pit box when the safety car was deployed. they couldn't win the race so hoped to wrong foot mercedes into pitting so that they could inherit the race. well, it didn't work.
@ james...and don't you think that this forecast is so prescriptive that it robs the entire F1 scene of any 'out there' expectation?
you may be right James, but i think hamilton suggested to stay out longer at the end of the first stint and his super cool right hand man boddington told him that they had to stick with the plan..
Merc didn't look at any stage in China race like they were worried.
And once they all went to Mediums, the pace difference was surprising in Merc's favour as it will be again in Bahrain this weekend
Brilliant analysis. It's really weird though to understand that whatever the rules, F1 cars will always have troubles to follow each other closely. I still remember Nick Heidfeld comment in 2009 after the huge aerodynamic rules change: "Finaly we can closely follow a Toyota". 6 years after, here we are again, you can't get too close.
they all find ways to make it difficult for the car behind i guess. may be they rules should stipulate serrated trailing edges to the wings to reduce turbulence. although i doubt it will make much of a difference. all I know is that falcons have serrated trailing edges on their wings giving them the ability to fly at high speeds towards their prey with minimal turbulence to alert the prey until it's too late.
Biggest relative disappointment of the race - and season so far - for this author has been the stalling (no pun intended) of performance from Williams.
I really did think they would make a big push, in the words of Radioactive Man "up and atom." Alas not. Massa's fastest race lap was 0.526 seconds slower than LH's FL of the race, while Bottas could only manage 7th fastest race lap which was 0.843 seconds slower than the Ham Man. And considering they have the same motive power as the race winner in AUS and CHI, to be nearly a second slower than the ultimate pace (for at least one car) is a pretty disappointing effort, to say the least.
Perhaps the lack of the "big bucks" manufacturer budget is starting to tell with Williams................possibly. There is no substitute in motor sport for hard cash to make progress - I get the impression James Allison told the Ferrari board in no uncertain terms to tell their mates at FIAT to get their cheque book out and starting writing some big figures if they wanted to return to the sharp end of the grid.
There are some issues of RAI strategy.
RAI should have prolonged his second stint another 3-4 laps, because his pace on old rubbers was even better than Vettel's on mediums (after Seb's pit stop). In this way, RAI would have had the opportunity to be on track with a rubber much fresher and he could undermine the position to his teammate. There was no risk of sudden drop of performance of RAI's soft tires because Williams was far behind.
Yes, and obviously while Ferrari won't employ strategy to get Kimi ahead of Vettel, I guess they will NOT impede Kimi if he was to win track position, either by qualifying better or overtaking Seb on lap 1.
That is the difference between Ferrari 2014 and the new Ferrari of 2015.
James not sure if anyone had brought this up before but why is it at teams are so surprised that for example the soft tyre lasts only maybe 10 laps Friday and then near double that on race day. We do see it quite a lot. Is it due to track evolution or something else? I find it strange that teams get this wrong a lot.
It's track evolution: The actual surface of the track changes dramatically the more laps are ran, and it's very hard to say how much will it change. Add rain on saturday night, for instance, and you'll get different performance on Sunday. Add to that the weight changes during the race, and the fact that the tracks keep improving during the race, and you can have major differences on how many laps a tire can run from the beginning to the end of the race!
And yes, every track behaves differently. New, abrasive surfaces take on rubber differently than surfaces that are so old and ground down they don't have much texture anymore.
Clean air vs following another car vs having to defend also changes tire longevity by so much, we don't see that much fighting for position anymore: If the car behind you is faster, fighting only makes both of your races worse.
With so many variables, no wonder teams screw things up.
It is more the sensitivity of the Pirellis to track evolution. We did not have the same degree of variance in the Bridgestone and Michelin eras.
They are also not running at qualifying pace all the time during a race.
Spot on, but that has been the nature of F1 ever since it has began. The drivers have DRS too, what more do they want?
Not surprised, but it's not something they know precisely
This is good as it adds to the unpredictability
If we had Bridgestones, you'd know exactly what would happen…they were so conservative
the current tyre philosophy is a lot of what's wrong with the current formula
degradation curves shouldn't be unpredictable for unpredictability's sake, it ruins the competetive integrity of the on track racing along with drs.
fans aren't stupid, they're passionate and always make sure to educate themselves, don't mock them by selling manufactured racing when every other formula is selling real racing
get tyres that have predictable life but a lot of grip, this has always been how tyres should work
where are the quali-spec tyres that are good for literally just one lap?
all the tyre strategy as things stand is forced and teams only need to react to cover their opponents one of two moves
a note on tyre regs, why not just bring 4 of each compound to a weekend and let teams run whatever compounds they want
this can't be that big a logistical step to what's being done right now
this would actually reward teams that can make tyres last and will also reward those who want to push on harder/softer rubber
and please drop the tokens idea, it's obnoxious and can't be explained to fans
how much is a token worth?
can i change engine architecture with 1 token or do i need to spend more?
just allow 4 scheduled updates per season, it's clean and won't scare new manufacturers off when they have strategy meetings wondering if they could make a competitive engine with 16 variable value tokens
allow aero devices on the top and bottom of the cars, cap the teams at a hard limit like 60-80 cubic cm's of bodywork, i dont know an exact value it'll be for smart people to work out
this would allow for designers to be innovative when finding performance in aero and there could be some individuality among the teams cars aside from nose shapes
get rid of drs, it doesn't produce enough real racing moments and almost always favours the following driver with an instant surrender being encouraged to the car in front
a note on track design, add gravel strips to the outsides of corners where drivers would usually be tempted to use more than just the permitted road, for example the final 2 turns in abu dhabi
tarmac runoff can continue after the strip but it should be a runoff not a slingshot
punish drivers for running wide and going over the white lines without needing to involve the stewards
on the plus side, the current engine philosophy is good, would just like the tokens to be made rid of cause only engineers can discern how much a token is worth
first post here, dunno if I've made sense
Then issue isn't unpredictability. It is the ENGINEERED unpredictability in F1; or at least to the degree we are currently witnessing.
I do not know of ANY major sport where this kind of unpredictability is engineered in. I cannot see how this is difficult to understand.
"If we had Bridgestones, you’d know exactly what would happen…they were so conservative"
Yea it really sucked, didn't it, having tyres that actually *allowed* cars to push onwards and try an overtaking manoeuvre. Much better having the man in second place spending half the race trying to drive slower than the guy in front... scared of damaging his boots.
You never once heard a driver in the Bridgestore days (or Goodyear/Michelin for that matter) wanting to hold back because pushing would 'destroy the front tyres'. Granted - the aero of the cars in those days made it difficult to get close - but at least drivers would throw in everything they had in an attempt to.
It's predictable unpredictability
It is about the river getting paid down. Seem to remember that the problem on race tyre life in Malaysia was the heavy rain cleaning the track.
James, I hear what you're saying (figure of speech), but frankly I'm getting tired of this driving to a delta racing. I don't really get the sense anyone is on the ragged edge, unless it's the ragged edge of the tire from driving faster than the tire can handle. I don't know what the solution is, but this current era is starting to lose me.
It's because you know much more
Senna and Prost were tyre managing too but the publichad no data
It's the same with everything in life now ; politics for example
The more we know the unhappier we are ironically
@KB Davies
Unpredictability is why we watch sport isn't it?
No point in racing if it is all determined in practice and then qualifying.
Or would you prefer more of Sochi 2014 for every round???
Unpredictability is good. It keeps drivers/teams on their toes (so to speak).
How to get an unpredictable race? Just add water. A drop or two of rain..........remember Hungary 2006, Germany 2007, Brazil 2008, Canada 2011?
I mean, a driver winning a race after being last with just 30 laps to run? Nah...........
But how can unpredictability be good James? Has F1 lost it's mind? There is no other sport in the world where "unpredictability" is engineered in. How can it be good that tires behave one way in practice, and another way in the race? What is the point of practice then?
Even different sets of the same compounds behave differently - in the SAME race!
I think F1 exists in a parallel universe where everything is upside down.
Eh? Unpredictability is in every sport
A bottom of the table football team sometimes beats the champions
An outsider wins the Masters golf..
I didn't hear about this. Quite funny.
>
Media reports say Frenchman Alesi joked that Alonso "fainted again" when he was lapped by the two Ferraris on Sunday.
Oh yes, I forgot.
Alonso is a really good amateur magician.
Now it seems that instead of the tyres improving the action and increasing overtaking, they are preventing cars from attacking the car in front. We missed seeing Rosberg have a crack at Hamilton because of the tyre design.
No sir. We missed Rosberg having a crack at Hamilton because he simply lacked what it took to get close and challenge or even threaten Hamilton. He never even used DRS behind Hamilton ONCE during the entire 56 lap race!
In 2014, I believe the driver behind at Italy, Suzuka and the USGP was not riding a magic carpet but also driving with tyres (designed by Pirelli).
Additionally, 'dirty air' and 'tyres' didn't seem to be a problem for Verstappen, Maldonado and Ricciardo. And if anybody could have a reason or excuse for recklessly ranting like a crybaby, even the 17 year old didn't melt down post race despite an unfortunate engine explosion!
... we missed seeing Rosberg have a crack at Hamilton because of Rosberg's lack of racing prowess. Had the positions been switched, I'm pretty sure we'd have seen Hamilton attacking.
with the exception of red bull and their unreliability and power deficiency marring their competitiveness it appears as though the emphasis is now focussed back onto the tyres!!! whilst tyre managment is an integral part of F1 and always has been we now appear to be headed back to 2013 where they were the major differentiator in all races. IMO this is wrong...it was wrong then and it is wrong now. driving to deltas dictated by tyre wear is not F1 racing in my book.
Yes it looks like Pirelli has quietly done something to the tyres this season.
Kenneth, thank you for reminding me of Honda's motor sport specialists at Toshigi - I'd forgotten about them, although it's on fairly safe ground to say ATM the Japanese are somewhat lagging behind their Italian and Anglo-Germanic rivals!
TBE really, after all, the Merc, Ferrari and Renault engineers have 12 months of racing experience behind him, where as Honda are "nosing around in the dark." I'm sure they will make progress by mid season - watch this space.
Actually Gaz - I think it was my good self that pointed out HRC along with Renault Sport.
The history is fascinating and you do not get to own and manage race tracks by being unwilling in such an arena.
Particularly not in Hondas case. It is why the company was set up. The Senna NSX, the incredible bike engines. The CBX? The all conquering two stroke moto GP engines? The Civic and other type R car engines? Amazing work. If you have ever stripped a type R engine or even a 30 year old gold wing engines. Well they are and remain in a different class in terms of manufacturing and tolerance.
How many production car engines happily rev to 9000+ rpm? And still be useable. And tick over at 875rpm? In 2000 mind, not today.
Just 10 years before my best blue printed tuned road race 16v engines in production racers were noted for 170hp per litre with drivability. They were in magazines as show pieces!
Honda spanked us completely with that type R engine. Along with everyone else frankly. The joke is we will not see the likes again because of the emission laws making turbos and small engines mandatory all over Europe.
Something yet to affect all the Aussie 'it's not noisy or like reality' f1 commentators on here.
In EU - well sorry but pretty much everything we can buy new right now is a mirror of the tech in F1. It is coming to a show room near you soon, I promise! The laws are making it so.
When Honda decided they could not compete in 2 stroke with 4 stroke engines. Just look what they did for the next 10 years in motogp!
As an aside - I had many years ago a seemingly standard 250 Honda 'HRC' barrel in a race Superkart. It was from a 1996 250 motor crosser. A title one.
I won't bore you how I acquired it but I will say that very respected tuners of the time were taking the standard 48hp through to 55-60 to use in long circuit karting with absolutely amazing modifications including plates, reed valves, split heads! you name it. Remember these were pretty much one race engines, then fit new piston, rebuild etc etc. different now I admit but if you wanted to win....
There were some obvious differences in port timing and other areas but even copying via CAD to the .5 of a mm - it could not be replicated.
Yet that barrel pushed out 75-9 at the wheels (not crank - that's a 10hp loss right there) - once a plate to raise port height was fitted. Lots of other mods but it just produced power. Without any toys or fancy reed valves etc... Just the standard ignition curve carefully moved to accommodate the extra 3000 rpm. Yes really. 8000 standard. Tuned to run top end rather than torque - power at 11000.
No one dared touch it when it needed a nikasil replate - and you can see why. Truth is - it was a spoiling amount of extra power because you knew it could never be replicated.
In a kart weighing 180-200kg min with the driver suited booted and fuel etc. Well you can work out the power to weight ratio yourself compared to say GP2 or similar. It won a lot.
They were doing 175+ at Silverstone many years before - with twin cylinder race inspired Rotax engines so to get a motor cross single to get near that says what Honda are capable of.
Honda - yep. I think they know how to make an engine.
We just have to wait a bit while they get it right.
Well stated K Chapman.
Tyres should not be emphasis... again !
Also from a safety point & second it deflects from the essence of the racing on Sunday
Driving around managing the durability of the tyre cannot be good for audiences or the drivers.
Racing is the nature of the F1 beast & not how far a car can go on tyres on each stint.
Bring back durable tyres give each team an extra engine & " let the blood run free" (Aussie comedy series from yester year 😉 I think it was Channel 4 in the UK that showed it in late 90s)
@ pkara...there are so many good scenarios that could be enacted if they, the FIA, realised that having tyres that allowed teams to go racing on their individual merits would bring back some greater element of competition. the teams should be able to choose what tyre they want to race on not some tyre manufacturer who, believe it or not, have the ability to perhaps influence a championship if they so desired. that is wrong.
First time in four years...
I absolutely agree with you.
Are we in danger of another 'Pirelli Championship' to be decided following a tyre test mid year?
With who ever gets it right swanning off to 10 straight wins... This time - just to spice the record books.
Honestly - I am so tired of Pirelli dictating racing, I really am. And please don't tell me they were told to do it.
They did one race wrong last year. One! This year its all that has once again been talked about.
I hate passive aggressive marketing. I really do.
@ DRG....you know doc, that good things are worth waiting for and you should count your lucky stars that you only had to wait for four years to achieve enlightenment, some people go through their entire life without experiencing that 'damascene' moment. hahaha
i have many times suggested that their should be more than one supplier of tyres and i do believe that that should be the case now. michelin build excellent tyres and i would direct you to a comment re tyres made by mark webber last year. he said, ' michelin make tyres to go racing, pirelli are for the show'. he should know what he is talking about as LMP1 needs to have racing tyres that allow them to go hard most of the time.
let's hope that we don't have to wait another four years to chat amiably........
They were told to do it
Another site had Jules update. 6 months in a coma. My goodness what a terrible situation. Heart breaking.
Have we had any updates about Schumi? Anything positive and confirmed at all? Or no change?
@ sebee, i have just read a story of a young woman who was in a coma for five months and she exhibited some of the similar signs that bianchi is showing. she was pregnant at the time she had an accident and she didn't know that she was delivered by caesarian. when showed the baby she began to emerge from her coma.....so it is still possible that bianchi will some day also emerge. unlikely yes, but not impossible.
schumacher must be watching the races now because it was reported that the Ferrari team principal broke down in tears when he got a text message from the schumacher family after their victory in malaysia. another year and he may come out to meet the cameras.
as for bianchi, they said all his organs are functioning well but he is still not out of coma, so there is hope at least.
But prognosis has changed from absolutely pessimistic to.. well, less pessemistic but still pessimistic. Heartbreaking indeed.
Missing Kyvats time analysis on the chart...?
Really disappointed with Rosberg this year. Aside from just not racing that well, he's making a lot of silly comments and remarks. Complaining your teammate is not going fast enough is just a bit ridiculous. You're a racing driver, if he's not going fast enough, overtake him. And the bit in qualy where he complained to his team for hurrying him up on his out lap (to ensure he crossed the line before the flag came out) was just a bit pathetic, as if that was the reason he could not better Hamilton's time.
What Rosberg says about wrecking his tyres if he's too close to Hamilton is true, but does that mean he's just settling for second place and hoping Hamilton has a problem or a bad pit stop? I cannot see Hamilton sitting back like that if Rosberg was holding him up. The best way to get Hamilton moving would be to attack him, pretty soon the team would hurry up Hamilton because they'd be worried Rosberg is going to wreck his tyres. Rosberg just seems to have completely lost the plot and settled for second place hoping he picks up wins if Hamilton has a problem.
You will hit the cliff very easily. Don't say something HAM will 100% overtake ROS, this is just assumption and why people not saying this in last race where HAM beaten by VET. He is very great driver but not someone who can goes against the physics of the tyre.
Following dirty car makes you lost of downforce and heat generated from engine in front. You have to use more from the tyre to make the turn. In China turn 13 just so demanding and if you does not have a car which is 3-5% better than one in front, its really hard to get close. Identical engine and Identical car means ROS almost got no chance to overtake in this venue.
What I see is Ros could be say this in Team perspective, as HAM go too slow and he will get into HAM's dirty air, causing him not just the chance of beating him, but vulnerable to lost 2nd place to VET.
He seems to have completely lost focus. I'd suggest (1) keeping quiet and never mentioning his teammates name for the rest of the season, (2) focusing on how to drive more quickly without worrying about what Hamilton's doing or not doing, which includes obsessively studying his data, (3) stop expecting to drive races under team instruction until the end when, maybe, his cunning tyre-preservation plan will let him 'have a go' at winning in the last few laps: he needs to win by taking pole and heading off into the distance, or, failing pole, passing Hamilton or whoever from the grid start or during the second stint at latest. No, it won't always work, but that's the risk champions take.
Hi James,
What are your thoughts on the FIA introducing some sort of rule that doesn't allow a team to give pit-stop priority to the leading car. At the moment it just seems that if you manage to get out in-front, then that's playing a big part in winning the team-mate duel.
Keep up the good work, enjoy reading your articles and insights.
I actually thought you had read that the FIA was planning to introduce this idea. So let me clarify by saying that the hyperbole was aimed towards the FIA, It would be rude to be hyperbolic about your suggestion. But I agree with James, let's not get too much interference in the racing.
The teams shouldn't be forced into having to use both compounds in the race, they should have free reign over whatever tyres the want to run on whatever strategy
Remember Russia last year where Rosberg did virtually the entire race on one set of tyres do we really want that? Though perhaps if it's feasible let teams nominate their own two trye compounds for a race .i.e Soft/Med, super-soft/Med. Or go one step further and bring 3 compunds to a race which must all be used.
Just how will the rule read? ' teams will not be allowed to give the leading car first pitstop after a stint for more than 75% of the total amount of the involved team's race pitstops'? Or 'teams will be obliged to alter first pitstop between their respectice driver after each tyre stint'? Seriously, this is awfull. What's next , 'art. 5.1: drivers will be restricted to a maximum of 5 pole positions on a yearly basis, pole positions acquired after the the mandatory cap of 5 pole positions will be transferrable to the next season, albeit on the condition that the driver involved races a quarter race distance on the FIA PINK ELEPHANT, no later than after the 5th race of the new season. Art. 5.2 on the FIA PINK ELEPHANT:... You get what I am saying
Well I just meant give each side of the garage full control over when to pit the car.
I get its maybe not a great idea, was just a thought, anyway thanks for your comment.
How does that work?
This weekend they pitted the second driver first after no doubt LH said he still had life in his tyres...
In other words the team countered Ferrari threat by theoretically disadvantaging the lead driver?
I echo James. Keep away!
I think they should interfere as little as possible in the racing
Hi James, after every race I wait anxiously for this article with my beloved charts. I really enjoy them and they help me a lot to fully understand what happened in the race. This time I see how good did Lewis with the softer tires in the second stint. The curve running upwards between laps 27 and 32 shows that he had still a lot of rubber on them. Besides I see that somehow Kimi was following the same strategy as Lewis while Sebastian did worse. His too long final stint with the harder tires could have costed him the podium place.
Thanks! Tell your friends!
F1's biggest problem is WEC.
Watching the WEC race after F1 at Shanghai the comparison could not be more stark.
The rules for F1 have stifled the competition and therefore the spectacle. The best racing in China was between Button and Maldanado for 16th place or whatever it was.
I am very much looking forward to the WEC race at Spa and sadly F1 at Bahrain might be a take it or leave it proposition.
Why are some people on the WEC train in the last year or two? I'd rather not watch a race for hours and hours. It's such rubbish.
Are you serious? WEC races are way too long at 6hrs to engage the average viewer. People have things to do and are not going to sit there For 6 hrs to watch a race develop. Today's human being hasn't got the attention span that warrants such concentration. The WEC is no threat ti F1 whatsoever. For starters TV networks are not interested in that format because they are aware that people haven't got the patience to follow endurance racing so the money from TV rights is minuscule. Second Silverstone averages 30 000 spectators for a WEC event while on raceday alone Silverstone gets way more than 100 000 spectators. Mainstream media do not cover WEC stories because no one is interested in them. The average person knows what Formula 1 is even if they don't follow it but they would probably confuse WEC with wrestling. So no, Not any time soon for the WEC when they are so far behind even Superbikes.
You seem to have underestimated the average Australians ability to sit, drink beer, and watch cars go round and round for hours on end. Have you never seen Bathurst? Longer race = more drinking time... who cares who wins at that point
yes DUDE!
there are obvious lessons for F1 in looking at the current WEC format.
F1 has a natural mass appeal advantage in that it is packaged into a neat two-hour segment and WEC is a bit bit long for me (actually is about the limit for sitting in one place for me).
F1 should open up the variables and go to a energy equivalent basis for fuel consumption, and allow competing PU technologies.
If you limited the energy onboard, then there is no way V10s, or V8s coyuld compete with the current engine formula, but, for example, the turbo Audi in WEC ,championship dominator, for years, is still competitive with the latest gas-turbo-hybrid, and why can't we have that kind of PU competition in F!???
Anyways, F1 may have to almost fail to figure this out.
Still hoping for a Porsche entry in F1.
Enjoy then. Don't let the door smack your bum on the way out.
Stop coming on here trying to make a political statement to be clever or 'modern'
Honestly it may have its faults but given a 35 year history of most forms of racing and a participant in two and four wheel (regional, club, British and European championships - all on a shoe string) I am really tired of the sheer level of negativity shown on every forum at the moment along with all the clever snidy comments.
If you don't like it - watch something else. Just stop trying to make click fodder by telling everyone that its much better elsewhere because for whatever reason, you have issues.
Just go watch it and keep quiet for those that do want a reasonable insight into how something of interest is progressing.
Keep the shadows behind you and face the sun... Its so better perspective for life.
Theres not much I agree wit5h you on drg...but A+ on this! If peopel are so enamoured with the WEC then watch it report on it if you wish but please dont tell me its "Better" than F1. My own personal feeling is that WEC is lot of old trot with failed and dropped out f1 drivers filling the grid..... but I dont go harping on about at every opportunity. F1 is under NO threat from WEC of all things. Ask anyone on the street to name you a WEC champion..... They couldnt..... F1 on the other hand.. So come...please...lets stop this my dads together than your dad nonsense. WEC is WEC and F1 is F1 and never the twain shall meet
+1 dear chap, +1
Not about this race strategy, but still strategic - did Ferrari spy on Mercedes to make such big jump?
Many respected people predicted long recovery for Ferrari. So all of them got mistaken? Where is the wisdom of the crowd? I feel spy footprints here. Thoughts?
And to add: if you want an indication as to how "good" last year's Ferrari engine almost was...look no further than Manor Racing. Still within the 107% rule, with last year's Ferrari engines and their old chassis. I mean really...who'd a thunk THAT?
(and yes, a plug for MANOR..the British racers in a shed!)
+1 dear chap +1...
Honestly, most people at Ferrari last year talked openly about their largest failing - using a smaller turbo unit in a bid to get tighter packaging and thus better aero. As it was, Mercedes split turbo still had tighter packaging, AND every other unit had a larger turbo.
So the solution was simple - bolt on a bigger turbo. Tens of horsepower gained in a flash, just needed to wedge it in somewhere. And change the engine software. But the fact is, it was OBVIOUS what the very first, major thing they needed to change was...so I have to say, I for one am not terribly surprised at their newfound pace.
Actually the Williams pace doesnt look too bad in the final stint...looks like they significnatly lost out to Ferrari on pace in the middle when on mediums...
I think two Ferrari were pushing harder than two Williams (especially Massa) in the final stint, but Felipe only lost 0.1 second to Kimi.
So we're back to formula one drivers as tyre nurses.
The compounds we're working fine last season, why the reversion to a situation everyone hated? Formula one seems to be really trying its very hardest to implode with all the main stories now about drivers managing sub-performing equipment (tyres, engines) rather than racing action. We have 60 lap races where drivers can only attack for a few laps before reverting to 'tyre management' - and Formula One doesn't know what to do to stop losing audiences???! Are Ecclestone and the rest paid to manage the sport really that stupid? (Evidently yes - though they love taking all the money.)
which factor do you want limiting the speed, because there is always going to be one?
Which one do you want?
Do you think it is possible that there is not a limiting factor on the cars?
+1
But apparently WEC is better
'Huge sigh'
Great breakdown as always.
So scope wasn't there to try different strategies for the Mercs
Which means Rosbergs race would not have changed even if he tried to save tyres & push for 'a last grenade' charge & attack Lewis. So he really should have tried to " do a Lewis " & used his tyres to get closer ftom the beginning of the final stint. Instead he waited to long...
Well played & controlled by Lewis
From Personal perspective he did 100% right. Remember what Ron Dennis said in 2007? Hungry animal has no limit........
I felt pretty OK with HAM behaviour and ROS complaining. People outside just think other is loser when he complained after beaten........But I cannot see any driver on the grid can act like ROS last year after losing out the WC and race to the end in last race.
An interesting analysis, confirmed by the sequence of the final result with two Mercs preceding two Ferraris and two Williams. Does it mean an irreversibly conservative approach to this year's stategies?
How can it?
If the Ferrari had got out in front at 1st pit-stop they may have one looking at the chart.
The Mercs would have ate their tyres - the season is far from over
Sure, and that's exactly the reason why Mercedes could not adopt a different strategy for Rosberg,, as explained by Jmes Allen. A much closer gap between the main contenders can't allow any mistake in strategies.
you could see it that way, or you could see that team forecasts of performance are not as precise as they have been; so a 'conservative' strategy might be the wrong strategy, in some cases, theu variability of results.
Thank you again for the race analysis.
Are you g oing to do an article on maclarens progress please,james ? are they turning up the engine ? Alonsos final stint lookes promising on the graph , buttons fight with maldonado ditto. Finishing races also. Any prognoses / goals for the near future ? More indepth needed ! Maybe after the next race ? Maclarens struggle is fascinating .
James,
If we looked back to the 1970s, to what extent was there this type of lap by lap analysis and strategy going on in the pits, or even after the race. Obviously there were technology limitations back then, e.g. no PCs, and perhaps no sector times, but I was wondering if you'd be able to give us a sense of what this type of "strategy" looked like back in the days of Emerson, Nikki, James and Mario.
It was in Le Mans with stop strategy
I think it really took root in F1 in 1990s with return of refuelling
@James Allen – re: DrSean’s comment in 2. above
MotoGP’s advantages:-
Multiple exciting over-takes amongst the leaders.
A formula structured so that teams with lower budgets stand a reasonable chance of competing.
A thankful lack of the stupid media focus on ‘mind-games’ in spite of the larger-than-life personalities involved.
Far greater mutual respect amongst the competitors – due largely to the inherent danger of the sport.
A works team – Suzuki – being able to finish 8th and 11th at the last event after being absent from the sport for three years. Makes you wonder what McLaren-Honda thinks it’s up to.
Formula 1’s advantages:-
A great site like JAonF1.
After following the sport for 50yrs. it’s got to a state of imbalance where I couldn’t be bothered to follow it live – I just read your analysis and then decide whether or not to watch the BBC replay, omitting the pre-race waffle and cringe-worthy post-race podium/driver interviews. I also enjoy this site’s varied replies – far more entertaining than the sport itself.
So – many thanks for all the hard work!
Fully agree with you. I prefer watching MotoGP and reading about F1 on this blog
Cheers!
Hi James, another great and non-bias article, do you think we will see more different strategy between the teams after the F1 circus back to Europe?
Honestly, I miss refueling, which gave us lots of different strategy, remember Schumi 6 pit stops?
Its good for the fans as this will keep us thinking and wondering all over the race, where now we all know what will happen next...
Yes when we have races where there are two different ways to do the race 2 stop or 3 stop and its close
Or where Ferrari can do one less stop than Merc
Ahh... thanks so much for the journalism, James.
Agree that Kimi just could not have got the performance differential to actually pass Seb; catch him, yes, but pass him, no!
Totally agree in your paraphrase of what I've been saying, Mercedes no longer has the luxury to be sloppy, they now actually (with Rosberg for sure) HAVE to get their strategy right, or Ferrari can, and likely will take it!
I yet don't think that people understand how foundational this shift in the complexion of the championship is, due to this tightening of the challenge.
We could all see that Ferrari were not quite there, on pace with a pole-dominating Mercedes, for sure, in China. But they are close enough, that Mercedes really haven't developed the 'nerve' to smoothly overcome the threat, mostly, it should be said, psychological, in China, anyhow.
Noise from Ferrari forecasting 'exciting' development schedule bodes well for us all, the fans.
I'm hoping to see the evidence in Bahrain!!!
Unfortunately this race was a bit like Monaco 2013 and the "silver buses".
2014 Chinese GP fastest laps - LH 141.196, NR 140.402
2015 Chinese GP fastest laps - LH 142.208, NR 142.565
It's striking how slow they were going considering the improvements to the car over the course of a year. That suggests Mercedes are very concerned their car has poor tyre wear.
OR... Theyre very concerned they only have 4 engines to run for the season. Though I understand the need for optimism so.....
The team's have 4 PU's for the year 1 less than last - that's 1 for 5 races no ones gonna thrash their engines for the sake of it.
The tyres are a distraction, Ferarri's pace dictates Merc have to re-evaluate the way their car race/ performs.
The racing upfront is getting interesting that trumps the times being posted this year.
Nico, mate - you had a kilometer long straight and DRS to help you overtake Hamilton. If Hamilton were behind don't you think he'd set himself up for an attack...?
Nico is a "cruise and collect points" type of driver I suspect - nothing wrong with that, he'd be a safe no:2 driver to hire!
Tyres. Just thinking, have this generation of tyres contributed to boring racing, are the drivers having to give too much thought too preserving their tyres causing lower speeds and less overtaking? If F1 is supposed to be relevant to us ordinary motorists I can see the point of the new engine as something that translates (loosely), but none of us want to drive everywhere at 40mph for fear of wearing our tyres out after 2000 miles.
Surely the worst aspect is not just that they have to preserve tyre wear, but that attacking is doubly punitive: extra pressure on the tyres speeding up AND more tyre wear when in turbulent air behind the car you want to overtake.
I'd like to see FIA by-pass the teams entirely and go to the top racing drivers (no need to list them) and ask them what kind of tyres and cars they want. Then build F1 regulations around that. They're the stars of the show, the ones spectators want to see doing their stuff. Not the teams micro-managing everything.
Something I have noticed........ever since the ban on driver 'ahem' coaching and information sharing over the team radios, Nico Rosberg has been very average indeed. And still now he keeps asking questions to the team during the race about where he can find extra time in a lap etc. It appears he cannot think on his feet. Dont get me wrong, he has great pace in qualifying, but racecraft, overtaking, and making snap decisions on gut feeling if the strategy isnt working he struggles with, and his results since the ban on radio have shown this. Massa, who in my opinion, needed the greatest amount of coaching in the past (Rob Smedley at Ferrari almost used to drive the car via remote control through Massa) has adapted better.
Nico now has the look of a beaten man, he needs to turn things around, and very quickly, otherwise it could already be too late.
James, in your honest opinion, do you think Mercedes are running their cars with the engines turned up to 100%. Do you think there could be any truth to the consipracy theory that they have been turned down to say 85%-90% to help improve the show?
No team has their engines at 100%. They all have an ability to produce massive amounts of extra power for short periods, essentially a qualifying mode, but it overstresses an engine that needs to last for 5 races including free practice.
It raises the question as to whether the Ferrari engines will start to struggle towards the end of their life, they were a little delicate last year, and they've gone all out for performance. It's a fair guess that Seb turned the engine right down for his final stint once they'd worked out that Merc was unassailable to his pace on mediums might simply have been preservation rather than a tyre performance limitation.
If they have been turned down, I would say it has mre to do with the fact that each enginge has to in effect last one more weekend than last year, 4 PU's this year vs 5 PU's last year. If you can win races at 90% of power why use 100%?
Whilst it is too early to say it might be that the Merc doesn' like it too hot, such as in Malayasia, prior to the SC Vettel was what 20+ seconds behind Lewis? But it's still a long season and anything can happen.
Yes, thanks again James for your analysis/incites. Frankly, far more interesting than the race itself!
Brad.
@James, thanks for your analysis, but you wrote:
"so they have to sit behind at a distance and a few laps more or less life on a set of tyres isn’t enough with these 2015 Pirellis to create sufficient pace advantage to pass."
Seemed to me that if the situation had been reversed where Lewis was behind Nico at the 2nd stop, with Lewis' time in hand he could have thrown down those 2 Hammertime laps, the 1:42.2 and passed Nico.
Rosberg. says this and this for a fellow team . united there not for the reasons of personal Rosberg. and Hamilton strategist in the field of race.
But Rosberg, needs grew faster in order to win Hamilton, to Rosberg may slow, after the time of teammate Lewis,
Problems from a colleague, in the team in order to win the championship.
But the anger of the word Rosberg, old friend about the team.
In the race for a world of good, but be strategic, such as Hamilton and Vettel are the biggest challenge the world of speed in this time but your opponent is a fellow of good help, but not all time. just sometime is help friend in one team.
Like other personal Vettel. and Ferrari, and that the group of experts to know the two are a problem for Rosberg, and Hamilton. another and Vettel and Ferrari Challenge two Mercedes. is the largest of the energy, and forces of the best engines, are designed from Mercedes.
Kimi stated that he was unsure if he could have challenged Seb because he felt there may not have been enough laps left to get the job done. He was 1.6 with 3 laps to go and even taking .5 off a lap wouldn't have been quite enough (and he was not doing that much on average). Unsure if they had cleared all backmarkers, but that was another thing holding both up and would have also impacted the situation.
Rosberg was in a rock in a hard place, but Lewis should have sped up a bit to allow him to easily stay abreast of Seb. However, what he did was ensure that Rosberg would not be racing him - so it was smart racing in terms of the championship. But the season is long, and it is impossible to know what will happen in terms of the championship, so it is a bit of a risk to back him up and Vettel pass - that could come back to bite later down the line.
James, considering hamilton was driving Unecessarly slowly according to nico and compromising his strategy I was surprised the team only reacted to Hamiltons pace after Nico informed them. Don't you find that strange?
No.
He was managing the tyres for a 16 lap stint. Rosberg felt the need to say something and as the world heard it on TV the team had to react and be seen to ask LH to raise his pace a little, which he did
Any before people get excited about 'managing tyres' it's been like that for most of F1 history with a few exceptions e.g. the refuelling years late 1990s to 2000s.
James,
How much do you reckon "tire management - no tire management" boundary is? something in average 0.3 - 0.5 sec?
Good question
I suspect it varies depending on tyre compound and conditions
But I will ask and post on it
James,
I have been watching F1 for twenty one years but have not witnessed such blatant ‘managing of tyres’ as we have seen in the last few years since we have had Pirelli as the only tyre supplier. I am sick of hearing tyre saving & fuel saving. How can that be a race?
The drivers are given times to run to. If Hamilton had been meeting his targets Merc would not have asked him to speed it up.
Nico is very unlucky, he is with the lion in the jail. Rookie Lewis in his first year certainly cracked young Alonso, in natural speed he is quicker than everyone now, perhaps is at level of Senna and i dont know to whom to compare among old generation bright stars in reflexive abilities. So, nico's mission is 'almost' imposible )
Oh dear - all the negativity.
I've been following the sport since 1984 and people have always moaned about it. Even in 1988 people moaned - and in my view that was one of the greatest, most intense, sporting seasons ever (even if I was a young Prost fan at the time, struggling to come to terms with the fact that, as great a driver as Prost was, Senna was just, well, more naturally talented...).
I love F1 and will always do so provided that I genuinely believe the best drivers and the best engineers on the planet are operating in the sport. Tell me if that is not still the case...
Drivers like Rosberg are freaks of nature with immense talent. No matter the level of gamesmanship between Hamilton and Rosberg, deep down I'm sure Hamilton has a huge amount of respect for Nico and his abilities (even if he believes he's got him covered most of the time - which he appears to do at the moment). Yes Nico struggled to come to terms with Lewis last year but I was still impressed by his raw speed and the fact he never gave up.
Sorry poster (44) this wasn't aimed at you - more the general tone of the commentary above. I just don't understand people who will post comments on this blog but who will not even watch the race live/recorded. I live in NZ and watch every race live no matter what the time. The bulk of the season is spent sleeping on the sofa until 1am in the morning when the race starts (not easy with three young children). Even if the race is not always a classic I still wouldn't miss it. In some ways it's better than it ever was. I love the extra information I get form the F1 timing APP on my iPad, closely following the sector times of each driver, enabling me to see what is happening before the commentators sometimes.
As an Englishman I was also a big Mansell fan - but with many of Nige's races I wouldn't have a clue what "made the difference" as we got so little information in those days. You would have to wait for the following Thursday when Autosport came out to get any analysis and even then you wouldn't get as much information about tyres, strategy and the like. It's so much better now in that respect with excellent blogs like this one.
Yes the sport can be improved but it's still great.
Couldn't agree more with giorgio and erik.
I particularly like erik's comments comments about the 2012 US GP. They were an exact mirror of my own experience - a truly great race.
When you follow one driver very closely on the timing app it's amazing how you can see things unfolding almost before you "see" them on the tv. Sometimes I have to tell myself just to sit back and enjoy the race and stop staring at the numbers on the iPad...
Imagine what it must be like as an analyst working for Mercedes back in Brackley with all the additional information they must have to deal with.
@Mark - Lovely. Your tone is super and everything you say with this tone has a weight - even when i have to humble myself to see your take on things because past has not much value in sport that changes so rapidly with the new materials and technology providing new possibilities to play with.
I share your point to see different data to follow the race, especially sector and lap times, what i follow very closely - sometimes i even forget TV when nothing seems to happen in terms of fights between drivers. Thing is, there is much more data i would love to see - engine mode, saving or attack mode etc. Long gone are times when throttle angel meant something meaningful. I remember US gp in 2012 when Hamilton was chasing Vettel. They were so closely matched that all it take was a backmarker wrong time in a wrong place to decide who wins or lose the race. Hamilton just took the opportunity by turning his engine to max before DRS and off he went. I would have been delighted when Hamiltons name turned red when such an engine mode was deployed. To see drivers intentions are all i would love to see. Not used fuel quantity or any other engine working parameter which are all stated before the race - therefore meaningless in terms of racing action.
I wish you many more decades with F1 and vice versa in general.
@Mark
I appreciate your experience/informativeness of F1 background based on last 30 years (I do have only last 10). I didn't meant to express negativity or moaning (yeah, comment 44 may looks like that) but rather an accomplished fact. In fact wisest experts in F1 I think are in bookmakers 😉 and you may see Nico vs Lewis stakes. I don't think it's bad for sport, let the strongest wins.. but what for Nico, it's easy to say, but he has to become more naughtier..
I agree with you, despite a lot of critics F1 remains as ultimate limit of technologies, of creative idea and human capabilities and hopefully it will remain so in future, otherwise it won't be an authentic F1.
And thanks to JA for provision of insiders' info and excellent analysis.
As it seems unclear to several people, here are my 2 cents on what ROS meant :
he thinks Lewis had much better pace, and that he could have gone faster. At the same time he thinks himself had not enough pace to challenge lewis for a pass, but enough to put some more distance to VET
Lewis says he was not sure enough he had enough pace without risking to hurt his tires so he would not go as fast as ROS requested/hoped
ROS thinks HAM is lying and did it on purpose to put him in dnager versus VET
HAM thinks "whatever...."
On a side note, I think LEWIS has every incentive to help rosberg get 2nd place right now. he knows he can beat him in the same car, he doesn't know if he can beat VET in this Ferrari.(and as an ALO fan, i subscribe to putting 10 points on the closest opponent at the championship rather than 7)
Rosbergs words were meant for his team, meaning they can lose second place if they don`t speed it up. He knew Hamilton had extra speed in hand so no point starting to burn rubber to stay behind eventually anyway. So he reminded this to team and guaranteed himself at least second. He played win-win card, -quite smart.
I hope Ferrari will keep them in tight strategic window to force Mercedes drivers up to to their toes. Let them be uncomfortable and force them to make mistakes because Mercedes has only to lose and Ferrari has only to win - very different state of mind.
I expect Rosberg to take more risks and when he succeeds Hamilton will fall off the wheel for a while but when he manages to get back - and he will - Rosberg better hope to have enough lead to hold on. Taking more risks of course can lead to bigger mistakes and for opportunistic journalists it can be interpreted as a meltdown and cracking under pressure. So lets hope latter does not happen.
@darth patate
Thats the way i see it as well.
JA of course now has his usual bla bla replies ala "Rosberg should have overtaken Hamilton then" which is completely missing the point.
This report is misleading. Rosberg knew he lost the race when he couldnt overtake Hamilton into the first corner but he never claimed he could have challenged Hamilton later on in the race, what he said was that Hamilton could have cost him his second place to a rival team as he didnt expect his fellow Merc driver to back him into the Ferrari. Hamilton acted against his teams interests and again like Hungary last year its swept under the carpet and instead Rosberg is atacked. Hamilton said after the race he didnt care for Rosbergs race at all, which is of course nonsense. Never the less Rosberg if he is smart enough can use what Hamilton and Lauda said after the race to his own advantage in future, starting in Bahrain. He could even risk to crash with Hamilton without repercussion if we take Laudas words at face value. And Hamilton said he doesnt drive for the team but just for himself. Rosberg should take these strong words by Hamilton and Lauda to motivate himself for all out war rather than falling into this #2 driver postion further and further.
Anyway this championship needs a Hamilton DNF soon one way or the other if it wants to stay interesting.
Actually Rosberg did say he was planning on attacking Hamilton at the end of the race. Then I'm not sure how you get that it would be ok for Rosberg to crash into Hamilton, from Lauda's comments. I think that would be a good way for Rosberg to usher himself out of the team.
Rosberg has done well at Bahrain before, pole for the last two years, and slightly faster race pace setup last year. The best response, and the only one that will give Rosberg the standing he craves, is to beat Lewis fair and square, on the track. He loses every other way.
I seem to recall at Hungary last year, Hamilton saying he would let Rosberg pass, but he wasn't going to slow down to let him pass. I think Mercedes missed an opportunity there from memory due to an issue in qualyifing (fire) Hamilton was out of position and was put on a 2 stop strategy whilst Rosberg was on a 3 stop, Had Hamilton been put onto a 3 stop he might have won the race.
F1 needs to look dangerous and fast. It currently is a dud and uninspiring.. Drivers need to be given more mechanical grip and less aero. I also think none of the drivers truly enjoy these cars, which also has an effect on the quality of racing. Ditch the green initiative. Its pointless. Nobody is going to turn on the tele to see uninspiring races. F1 needs to take 3 steps back to make one meaningful step forward. 97 regs with michelin slicks and kers. That would be a combination of everything we like.
[mod] 97 regs??? its 2015!!! You cant unlearn 18 years worth of advances and knowledge. Tech is not the same as it was in 97.. F1 is about cutting edge technology. James has said this many times but the same things were happening in 97 that are happening now.... We just didnt hear about these things like we do today. We have so much information at our disposal now, radio comms, sector times, Blogs, twitter etc etc Tyre life was just asmuch an issue...its just you didnt have the radio comms transmitting live driver feedback.
Going backwirds is not the answer and is not possible
Do not insult other posters, please - We're watching carefully. Keep the standard high thanks - Mod
Drivers driving a car without helmet long grown hair waiving in the wind - it sure looks dangerous and fast! No need for any gizmos.
My dear Nico,
I heard you like the Ferrari's to be closer to you so I did the following:
1. Slowed down to heat up your tires
2. Slowed enough for Seb to pressure you
3. When 1 and 2 is accomplished, I decided to speed up to make sure that the strategy call at the last stint will be you covering the Ferrari rather than chasing me.
After all, you want to compete with them for the greater good of the sport rather than find ways to beat me.
Hope you find everything in order.
Sincerely yours,
Lewis #blessed Hamilton
Hamilton replied really well and to the point.
He could have added that unlike Rosberg, he has no record of ruining his teammate's qualis (whether intentionally or not), nor of hitting him in the race (as in Spa).
It would be so awesome if HAM were to say something like that in a press conference. ROS was arrogant and hypocritical when he said those words in australia. 2015 will probably destroy his reputation, i wouldn't be surpirsed if VET beats him (but my money is still on HAM for the title especially since Toto is admitting they will use team orders)
Well, going by the Press Conference, Lewis seemed unaware of anything that has hit the fan. Seemed unaware of the champagne DM led campaign (until today), seemed unaware of any of Nico's comments, and unaware of Toto talking about team orders. Which would means he is unaware of claims that Lewis wants number one status and that is what is delaying his contract. On a note on that, Lewis was offered number one status by Brawn and refused point blank, he merely wanted equal status. No point getting into this Nico and Lewis fued, if Lewis is going out of his way to ignore it all.
Bring back the tyre wars. It would add another peformance variable. Also let drivers start on whatever tyre they want. Too much restriction on strategy in F1 today.
and make driving more difficult so drivers make more errors. Old school manual gearboxes might be a start. None of this electronic paddles on the steering wheel stuff and beeping to change gear. How is that not driving coaching?
PLEASE do not suggest that we go back to the refueling era, that was rediculous - if you remember we never saw any passes on track, everyone did their passing during the pitstops. That was the worst period of F1 I've ever seen.
I feel that the formula is fine as it is for over-taking. You know why Rosberg couldn't overtake Hamilton? Because he was SLOWER than him. End of. With DRS and the current tyre spec, overtaking has never been easier in F1.
I feel that Ferrari missed a trick in the last stint. With a large gap back to the Williams cars they should have ran Kimi even longer (or 3 stopped him) and left him with a few laps to do at the end on new tyres. There was always the possibility that a late safety car would bunch the field up and leave them in a position to really attack the Mercs on much fresher rubber in the final few laps. In the event we did get that late safety car, just 1 or 2 laps too late for racing to resume.
The upshot of all this is just that Rosberg needs to up his game. He needs to qualify faster, and needs to improve his racecraft and overtaking skills to win, but somehow I don't think Hamilton will give him any quarter. Rosberg will win if Hamilton has a reliability problem, but I hope Mercedes have sorted those problems out. If Vettel get's in front of Rosberg so be it, and quite frankly it will be good to see wheel to wheel between him and Hamilton. I suspect the last quarter of the season will be good this year!
Very good points James.
Last year's Mercedes strategy of giving the driver in second the faster tyre in the last stint was actually unfair, especially if an SC intervenes as in Bahrain. They should have let each driver decide which tyre they wanted, not artificially help the guy behind.
Adding to that, baby Rosberg can no longer get coached from the pit lane as evidenced in Malaysia quali.
Last year, Rosberg also benefited from Hamilton's car having worse reliability than his, but Hamilton has learnt to just do the minimum to win.
So all in all, Rosberg's chances of challenging Hamilton all year round are very slim and it's really good that Ferrari's threat is showing the real difference between Hamilton and Rosberg.
James, I'm not that convinced that Raikkonen didnt have a chance to pass Vettel. I saw boith footage from Raikkonens car and external pics showing him well & truly in Sebs slip stream just before the safety car came out- he had him lines up down the straight. I understand catching is one thing & passing is another , but it sure looked much closer than I first thought- watching the app & mond replay. I think the yellow flag zones affected Seb slightly more than Kimi..
Great insight as always from James Allen and co! The psychological war between Hamilton and Rosberg is hotting up already. It surely won't be long before there is another 'Spa moment'.
https://wheelspinf1.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/issue-52-2015-chinese-grand-prix-post-race-analysis/
Martin Brundle said on Sky the race was a setup
James
I try to read most if not all of the posts on your brilliant site. There are many contributors who are blaming the tyres for the lack of close racing.
I think that aero designers are brilliant, the problem is the better they are the worse the racing gets. It seems to me that aero is are dominating F1.
The development of Power Units, Composite Materials, Brakes, Batteries, Tyres etc all have a wider impact to benefit us all and have commercial opportunities.
It seems to me that F1 needs to wake itself up and realise 'again' that it needs to be commercially relevant. How are Mercedes going to use their latest F1 front wing on a 'C' class.
The great news is the pursuit of a commercially relevant Formula could give us a 'better show' and more importantly from my perspective better racing.
A number of your contributors have spoken favourably about Moto GP. What it the Aero impact in Moto GP. I do not know but I suspect very little.
Nuff said.
S
What happened in 2009 when the Fia came up with ways to increase mechanical grip, decrease areos, make the diffuser smaller and rear wing higher and narrower, and KERs to aid overtaking? Some bright spark came up with the double diffuser, triple diffuser, blown diffuser, exhaust suspension and more which never help the sport for years. This is F1 someone is going to always manipulate the rules. I rather see F1 be about the mechanical and engineering side, than just the aerodynamics dominance, after all it is a motor sport. Anyway, the drivers have ERS and DRS, if they cannot take advantage of that, then whatever.
Way too early in the season to say it's all over for Rosberg. He is one Hamilton DNF away from the lead. He is going through a rough patch certainly but he is still collecting points. With only four engines this year things will no doubt change dramatically at some point. Of the front runners only Raikkonen has had a DNF. Things tend to even out in the long term (a season). Ferrari saw what can happen when you back a single driver over the season when Schumacher broke his leg. One thing is clear Vettel and Raikkonen are pretty even on pure race pace. Wonder if this will rehabilitate Raikkonen's reputation or reduce Vettel's?
Vettel already won one race this year in only the second race against both Mercedes and on merit no less - I'm still no fan but anyone that maintains that he's a fraud or a one car hero or an exhaust blown champion is a...well, I'll leave it to your imagination
Vettel and Raikkonen are both very good drivers that struggled last year. I still think that Ricciardo is a bit better than both of them but now even he's struggling to get into the points this year so it just goes to show again that even the best drivers need good cars to get anywhere fast.
As for Rosberg it's not that he doesn't have a chance or that he won't have some luck, but more that his demeanor says that he's already given up.
@Random79 Agree with your assessment of Ricciardo. I rate him as up there with Hamilton at the top of the heap. His racecraft and pace last year were stunning. Vettel was shellshocked last year, looking a bit like Rosberg does this year. I think Rosberg will bounce back to be more competitive once he settles into the season.
@erik
Obviously you're dead set in your beliefs about the drivers so I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, but I will say that I actually agree with your Mediterranean meals metaphor.
Both Vettel and Ricciardo came into 2014 with completely different expectations placed on both them and the car - I guess you could say that in 2015 they've swapped roles a bit
Many years Vettel had a luxury to eat a 18 course meal from The Mediterranean sea kitchen and he went to sleep knowing tomorrow it will be the same but all of a sudden after every meal they give him a clyster and potatoes to survive - try to enjoy that! This is how i see his last year. Ricciardo was like a child with his new toys - try to beat this enthusiasm.
Raikkonen is fragile and public image is just ignorant. He needs right environment to grow otherwise he just shuts himself and i can see how it can be interpreted. Be intelligent towards him and you can get the best out of him. Motivation levels are completely different story - he seems to not value the ultimate prize same way as others do.
Ricciardo is like Hamilton, only without Hamiltons talent. Show him something shiny and his eyes will light up. He seems a little bit empty inside.
I'm with you Random79. Ricciardo was coming in new to the team, it would've been no slight on him at all if he finished behind Vettel last year. Yes Vettel and Kimi had anni (annuses? Sounds lewd) horribilis last year, but the season as a whole still told many a tale. I think Ricciardo is right up there, but the car is a wild animal at the moment. Both of them could barely stop the thing, going into corners. RBR will get on top of that, and Dan will be as entertaining as ever.
Plus, last point, but Dan has had horrible luck with components. He's already on 12 components (over the 6 classes). Only Button (12) and Alonso (14) have used equal or greater. Thing is, I haven't heard him complain about it. He needs a Steve to harp on about it ad nauseum.
@erik
"you take two guys who had worst season in f1 and compare them to a guy who had the best season…?!"
Yeah, I do.
Vettel and Ricciardo were in the same team with equal machinery and Ricciardo beat him hands down - That's pretty damn conclusive.
Vettel is currently beating Raikkonen so it stands to reason that if Ricciardo can beat Vettel in equal machinery he can also beat Raikkonen in equal machinery.
As for your fine insights: "Ricciardo is like Hamilton – very shiny and marketable – but not much talent and suicidal instinct to be a champion"
Really?
@ random...very well said. i fully agree with your summary. TBH i have written rosberg off for the title this year, not that i really thought that he could take it, but given the car he has i figured that there was no one else within a bulls roar of hamilton.
whilst we are still in the first quarter of the season the die does seem to be cast in many ways and that means more of the same. as wolffie says , they can and they will turn up the wick!!!!!
" I still think that Ricciardo is a bit better than both of them" - you take two guys who had worst season in f1 and compare them to a guy who had the best season...?!
Ricciardo is like Hamilton - very shiny and marketable - but not much talent and suicidal instinct to be a champion.
am sure both hamilton and rosberg said they relished the challenge from ferrari so I thought might have enjoyed the fact that vettel was gaining on him in china. if that's the case then he was pretending to complaints about hamilton slowing down too much..
The fact is that Rosberg simply didn't have Hamilton's long-run pace.
In the second stint, Rosberg was following Hamilton about two seconds back at a "slow" pace, in his words. Two seconds is too big of a gap to have a serious Impact on the tire degradation of a following car, especially at such a "reduced" pace. The fact is that Hamilton's style of using less steering load on entry and manipulating the car in apex to set up for smoother direction change and a more linear exit is far easier on the tires (especially the fronts, the big killer in China) for a given level of pace. Thus, Rosberg's tires-particularly the front-left- were cooked on every run after 10 laps, and Hamilton was able to dart away from him in the last 3-5 laps of a run. (Longer in the final stint before the safety car.)
And, in normal circumstances, a driver who is 7 seconds back of the guy he started behind with two laps to go really doesn't have a very strong foundation on which to argue that he is the quicker of the two in the particular race.
The fact is that Hamilton had this one in the bag from the lights. If he hadn't messed up his final Q3 run, I think the final gap in qualifying would have been nowhere near the 4 hundredths of a second that it has, as he had a good 2-3 tenths in the bag on Rosberg throughout the weekend.
Rosberg got beat by Hamilton because he was slower. End of.
"Last year Mercedes had a significant pace advantage over its rivals, which meant that the team strategists could experiment with different strategies – more stops or different tyres – for their car running in second place to give him a chance to win the race."
- I thought that Mercedes kept both drivers on the same strategy last year to prevent driver tensions?