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Posted By: James Allen  |  13 Oct 2013   |  8:31 am GMT  |  588 comments

Sebastian Vettel won the Japanese Grand Prix, after a race long challenge from Lotus’ Romain Grosjean, who led for most of the race. Pole sitter Mark Webber passed Grosjean for second place two laps from the end to make it a Red Bull 1-2.

Fernando Alonso finished fourth, ahead of Kimi Raikkonen and Nico Hulkenberg, who put in another strong performance.

It was Vettel’s fourth win in five years at Suzuka and his ninth win of 2013 and the 35th win of his career. It was also the first time he has won five consecutive races.

Vettel now has a 90 point lead over Fernando Alonso, who finished fourth today, which means that he is likely to clinch his fourth world title in India in two weeks time. He needs to finish fifth or higher in Delhi to finish the job off.

After three consecutive second places in Spa, Monza and Singapore, the Korea/Japan leg has not been kind to Ferrari, which has lost ground to Lotus in particular.

“I’d like to thank the fans, for the appreciation and respect they show the drivers,” said Vettel. “I had a very poor start. We were patient and looked after the tyres and had incredible pace in the end. I’m blown away. It (the championship) looks very good at this stage, but it’s not over until it’s over.”

It was a different kind of race from what we have seen recently in as much as Vettel didn’t drive away at the front; rather it was Grosjean, who controlled things in the first part of the race, with Webber behind him and Vettel in third.

Strategy was decisive; Red Bull split the strategies with Webber on a three stop and Vettel on a two. Vettel’s second stint was decisive; he was able to run a long middle stint and that gave him fresher tyres in the closing stages to pass Grosjean for the lead. Webber struggled to do the same on medium tyres in the final laps.

Teams were aware that a two stop strategy was around 8-10 seconds faster than three stops on paper, but there would be some teams possibly struggling to make the tyres last for a two stop.

Grosjean did a superb job throughout the race, but didn’t quite have enough pace on the strategy he was on to make it stick and take the victory. Another driver who excelled again was Nico Hulkenberg, who kept the Ferraris behind him for most of the race, but lost out to Alonso and Raikkonen in the final laps as his tyres faded.

At the start, Grosjean jumped into the lead, ahead of pole man Webber, while Hamilton and Vettel touched, Hamilton getting a rear puncture. Alonso moved ahead of Hulkenberg into 6th place, with Massa and Rosberg ahead of him.

At the back Van der Garde and Bianchi crashed in Turn 1, the Caterham suffering heavy front damage.

The order on the opening lap was: Grosjean, Webber, Vettel, Rosberg, Massa, Alonso, Hulkenberg, Perez, Gutierrez, Button.

Hamilton pitted on lap one and took on a set of new hard tyres, but he also had problems with aerodynamic loss from bodywork damage, up to one second per lap.

Vettel found himself third, obliged to drop back two seconds to protect his tyres, as was Webber.

Alonso was desperate to pass Massa in the opening stint, while on lap 9 Hamilton retired from the race. The opening stint was uneventful, little changing at the front through the first round of pit stops.

Button pitted on lap 9, Hulkenberg and Di Resta a couple of laps later. All moved onto the harder Pirelli tyre. On lap 12, Webber, Raikkonen and Massa pitted.

Lotus reacted and brought Grosjean into the pits on lap 13, retaining position ahead of Webber. This left Vettel leading on the medium tyres, trying to build a 22 second gap over Webber to jump him at his stop. He didn’t manage it and remained behind Grosjean and Webber.

Nico Rosberg was given a drive through penalty for unsafe release from a pit stop, he came out of his pit box into the path of Sergio Perez. Mercedes’ miserable race was compounded by Rosberg losing seven places, dropping down to 12th.

In the train which had formed behind Ricciardo, Alonso passed Massa, then a lap later Hulkenberg and Alonso both passed Ricciardo.

The Australian had started on hard tyres and this showed the others that they were good for at least 20 laps, which helped them to plan their strategy for the remainder of the race.

Grosjean maintained a 2.2 second gap over Webber, with Vettel a similar margin behind.

Webber pitted for the second time on lap 26, as Red Bull split strategies with Webber moving to three stops and Vettel on two stops. Grosjean kept going until lap 30 the pitted with 23 laps to the finish. He dropped in third behind Webber. Vettel pushed hard in the lead.

But Grosjean had it covered and maintained the gap below 20 seconds, not enough for Vettel to pit and rejoin before the finish. Vettel’s tactic was to have fresher tyres at the end of the race to challenge Grosjean in the closing stages.

Vettel pitted on lap 37 and rejoined on fresh tyres less than two seconds behind the Frenchman. He passed him four laps later for second place.

Webber pitted on lap 43, losing the lead to Vettel; he put on a set of medium tyres for the final stint. He attacked Grosjean on lap 47 and lap 48 into Turn 1 but couldn’t get through and that cost him the momentum he’d built up to potentially challenge Vettel for the win in the closing laps.

He passed Grosjean with two laps to go to the end.

The sixth place for Hulkenberg and seventh for Gutierrez (his first points in F1) meant that Sauber closed on Force India for sixth place in the constructors’ championship, the gap is now just seven points. Hulkenberg has scored points in the last four races.

JAPANESE GRAND PRIX, 53 laps
1. Vettel Red Bull 1h37.410s
2. Webber Red Bull +7.1s
3. Grosjean Lotus +9.9s
4. Alonso Ferrari +45.6s
5. Raikkonen Lotus +47.3s
6. Hulkenberg Sauber +51.6s
7. Gutierrez Sauber +1m11.6s
8. Rosberg Mercedes +1m12.0s
9. Button McLaren +1m20.8s
10. Massa Ferrari +1m29.2s
11. Di Resta Force India +1m38.5s
12. Vergne Toro Rosso +1 lap
13. Ricciardo Toro Rosso +1 lap
14. Sutil Force India +1 lap
15. Perez McLaren +1 lap
16. Maldonado Williams +1 lap
17. Bottas Williams +1 lap
18. Pic Caterham +1 lap
19. Chilton Marussia +1 lap

Drivers’ Championship
1. Vettel 297 points
2. Alonso 207
3. Raikkonen 177
4. Hamilton 151
5. Webber 148

Constructors’ Championship
1. Red Bull-Renault 445 points
2. Ferrari 297
3. Mercedes 277
4. Lotus-Renault 264
5. McLaren-Mercedes 83

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588 comments

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1

Would love to see the "he passed vettel 2laps to go" for webber @james ;))) would you mind correcting the last sentence

2

Anyways James do you think RBR was honest in their strategy I.e they seems to scew Web strategy to help Vet.

3

You will find out in our UBS Race Strategy Report tomorrow.

4

Another correction: the gap to Force India for Sauber is 17 pts, not 7.

5

Well done to Vettel, absolutely earned that one 🙂

Shame for Mark, but still a good race and a good finish.

Good result for Grosjean also, just a matter of time I think before he has his first win.

Best race I've seen for a while, really enjoyed it start to finish 🙂

6

It was not a bad race at all. My observations are slightly different. Despite so many mistakes from Vettel today (really unusual), he still got with a win. It just shows how massive advantage his car has. I think Red Bull always knew they can win it, either with Webber or Vettel (preferably). They just said...you know, if you cannot overtake Grosjean now...just keep the 2 sec gap and we will do it later. You say it because you know you have something in the pocket and you have a performance advantage.

I did like the race, I have to say. I still had a hope that somebody else is going to win, but it was obvious that Vettel will make it. 3 races ago I knew he is going to win this one, just like I know he will win the next one too:-)

I did not fully understand his comment about Webber...to keep him away from him. What did he mean exactly?

Also...I am wondering, would Kimi be able to win if he was leading the race? He needs to start doing a much better job on Saturday, just like Alonso. Alonso was really good today as well, but he did not have the pace of Red Bull really.

Glad that Massa did not let him go. They need to race...always. It is fair like this.

Kimi and Alonso would do so much better on Sundays if they would have qualified better.

7

Yeah a lot of mistakes from Vettel, really unusual.

It might be easy for us to say the pressure's off now that he all but has the WDC sown up, but I suspect the butterflies are still there.

8

That's a real dilemma Alex - one that I kind of sympathise with - but interestingly if Vettel goes on to start winning with Ferrari down the line and wins one or two titles with them I think I might actually like to see just how far he could take it.

Eight, nine...dare I say it even ten titles?

Boring maybe, but unquestionably history making and something we're not likely to ever see again 🙂

9

Things can always be worse. For instance.....say this year Red Bull wins again. Fine. But if next year they are struggling...then it is a breathe of a fresh air. If they will dominate again...or not dominate, but just win...then....it is a pain, huge pain. But....it can go even worse then that. Say Vettel wins again next year with Red Bull his title #5 and then goes to Ferrari and starts winning there. What do I do? It is always tough to support a guy that you do not like in a team that you have always been supporting.

10
Dimitar Kadrinski

you do NOT earn a victory when you drive the FASTEST car on the grid (and the fastest by quite a margin), it is called saved the win. It was redbull's to loose all weekend. So please.... Back to the shumacher years, this sport is not an interesting one for me any more... just hoping next year can bring us something different!

11

Yes the best must be punished at all cost. Please let the mediocre rise. It is unfair to be good. Only the poor drivers should win. Having a god car means you are a loser.

12

You are right. Newey must not be punished at all.

13

What??!!!

How about you drive an F1 car for a couple hours faster than anyone else and see how easy you find it.

I am not a Vettel fan - I would much rather have seen Mark win it - but the fact is that Vettel won and he did earn it.

Saying he didn't earn the win just because he had the fastest car is a direct slap in the fast to most (if not all) race winners and world champions past and present.

And back to the Schumacher years? What the hell do you think he was driving? A donkey maybe?

No, Schumacher had the fastest car too.

If this sport is not interesting to you anymore that's cool, maybe then you can keep rubbish like that to yourself.

14
Dimitar Kadrinski

Well if you just look at the facts, then you might agree to me, but it is up to you. What I can say is: a victory earned would have been Webber's if he managed to make his 3 stop work (intense drive all the way + overtaking cars on the track) or Grosjean's with a much slower car, but through a good start and good strategy. Vettel on the other hand had a POOR start, did more mistakes in this race alone than he did in the first half of the championship maybe, overtook just ONE car on the track (Grosjean was not trying to defend, I am sure, he knew or been told, he is not racing Vettel)and won it... easy in my own opinion ( or should I say relatively easy...)

When the whole F1 audience expect Vettel to win it easy, then it is NOT EARNED, even the team principals began to talk that they are not racing redbull!!! What does that tell you?

I am one of a few F1 fans that do not have a clear favourite driver, i watch this sport simply to enjoy it, whoever wins. Respecting the drivers with their fitness and their reactions and all the rest. But Vettel is too arrogant for me to like him, although i do not hate him, he's just a kid (this race he also spoke to the pit to try and ask then to stop Webber catch him...)

And not on the last place, listen to Martin Brundle( I think it was him) flying on a plane to Japan with most of the drivers, saying that ALL the drivers HATE the current formula, but they are not allowed to go public with their opinion!!!!

Enough.

15

+1, well put

16

You've got to be kidding.

Redbull knew 2 stops was quicker than 3, as did this website, as did the rest of the field, so they put Webber on 3 stops to put him behind the battle for the win.

Redbull are a disgrace.

And an they are an abject one at that.

"shame for Mark"??? It was clear from the radio comments as early as lap 20 (engine 21) that 'the team' was shafting him again.

Its a shame for the sport, I would rather stop watching.

17

Please do! You are clearly not a fan.

18

It was so obvious he got shafted.

19

I watched the race twice.

The first time I was outraged by the 3-stop strategy RB made Webber do, for I thought they were helping Vettel, and Vettel does NOT need to be helped. As a Vettel fan since 2007, I routed for Webber until he could not pass RG for so many laps when Vettel passed him clean with one lap under 1 second. I would have loved to see MW pass RG then pass SV for the win, for I though it was unfair for the team to call him in so early.

The second time I watched the race yielded a different picture - Mark had such a hard time passing RG on newer and faster tires towards the end, that he could not have ever been able to pass him on equal or older tires. The 3-stopper was the only way to put Webber in front of the Lotus, and Mark at the end had a real chance to regain the lead. So the 3-stopper was the best strategy for Webber given the circumstance. If VET had been stuck behind GRO the same amount of time WEB had, WEB would have won. That was why VET was crying about the traffic being unfair, which was not very attractive even for someone who loves him, for he knew the potential threat from behind.

20

Mark couldn't have done two stops.

If he didn't get stuck behind Grosjean for those two or three laps he would have been right on Vettel and then suddenly it would have gotten verrry interesting...but it wasn't to be and full credit to Grosjean for the great defensive driving 🙂

21

I agree with the sentiment - would not go as far to say RB are a disgrace, very disappointed mark did not win

The strategists arranged it

Team orders influencing the result is never good for sport

22

So you disagree with the multi 21 team order and applaud SV for attacking ....... Of course you don't. It's SVs fault when team orders are for him, and when they are against him ..... and even when they don't exist.

23

"Team orders influencing the result is never good for sport"

Serious? What you say after Malasya Multi21?

24

Spot on, anyone think Seb earned win I suggest have re listen of the message from team to Seb "you are not racing Mark, you are racing Roman" which was on lap 20 just before they put Mark on 3 stopper. Someone said "they didn't do nothing against the rules" no they didn't because FIA changed the rules so team orders are legal now and are detriment to the sport which now is basically engineered from start to finish as we all know who's gonna move out of the way since each team have a N01 driver. In the past at least they tried to hide it for the sake of not being punished.

25

I believe you are mistaken. After all, had Mark not been held up behind Grosjean the Red Bull pair would've indeed arrived at the same destination at the same time, and we would've had a nail-biting finish. No conspiracies here.

26

@A. Given the circumstances, I don't see why not.

27

And you seriously think RB would've let them race had Webber closed up on Vettel with 2-3 laps to go???

28

Stop watching? I doubt you will until uou know there is no hope of Hamilton in winning another title and let me tell you this now, unless Merc has a huge advantage next year you might as well switch off.

29
Colombia Concalvez

Like Kimi or Alonso has better change..

30

I'd rather you stop watching too, as you clearly don't understand what you're seeing. Webber is always harder on his tyres than Vettel and he'd have finished behind Grosjean on a two stopper.

31

Yes, they fooled Webber and Lotus. Nothing new they did the same in 2010 with Webber and Ferrari. Having said that RBR has every right to do any strategy they want. They did nothing against the rules. If they wanted to help Vettel is fair game. If fans don´t like it it´s irrelevant.

32

That's not the point.

The fact is that RBR is very quick to judge other teams (Alo/Mas at Germany). They think they are the moral compass, but they do the same things (or worse)

33

And I agree. I never understood why there was such big deal with the booing when it´s part of all sports.I´ve seen worst things at football matches. But here we´re talking about a team strategy. Fans don´t decide over strategy.

34

If fans then chose to boo the 'chosen one' on the podium and RB don't like it, then that's equally irrelevant.

35

I can't stand Vettel either, but that was necessary move for the championship by RB

36

You do know Mark set the fastest lap straight after then engine 21 call?

37

So what??? What is your point??? WEB was clearly ambushed (AGAIN).

38

And its ok for ferrari to tell Massa to move over while leading gps or have his gearbox opened just to help his team mate move up the grid? What about NR not being allowed to pass a LH car that cant go over 30MPH cause LH used his fuel too hard. The fact is that its unfair to expect SV to race his team mate when none of his rivals have to. If you wanna stop watching after this but had no problem continuing after the Massa gearbox I think that proves that your problem is not with team orders but its more that you dislike SV.

39

Ferrari have an honest driver hierarchy. Red Bull claim driver equality but conduct themselves in a way that clearly shows a 1-2 policy. It would be less irritating and a little easier to take if Christian Horner just honestly said "Seb is number one and everything we do is for him, Mark gets whatever leftovers we have".

This fact along with Vettel's attitude is why people don't like him. He actually said "keep him away from me" (referring to Webber) in the closing stages of the race. His own words condemn him. These five words indicate Vettel's clear number 1 position within the team. It can also be inferred that Vettel's success has been as great as it has due to this apparent modus operandi Red Bull has of keeping Webber away from Vettel. They do this with 'strategy calls', friendly fire 'errors', parts swaps, and of course the inherent design of the car built to Vettel's demands.

Perhaps none of this is true. Not relevant. The impression given by Vettel himself when his political guard is down (while racing under pressure) is that it is very much the truth.

40

@anil before the 2010 German GP FA had 97 points and FM had 67 points. At the point in the race at which the team orders were (as of 2010 illigaly) issued FM had 92 points while FA had 115, a difference of 23 points. As in 2010 there was 25 points available for a win and that year the German GP was round 11 that means there were 225 points up for grabs. Do you still think Madsa was already out of the fight?

41

Massa moved over once whilst leading a Grand Prix and that's because Massa was basically out of the title fight Nd Alonso was their only chance, a decision that was clearly right.

It didn't matter if Seb or mark won today as the title fight has been over for some time.

42

Earned? Gifted by his team more like, Webber was sold a dummy. Expect more of the same next year for Webber's compatriot Ricciardo ...

43

If Webber, on fresh medium tyres, had been able to pass Grosjean who was on older hard tyres once he caught him, he would have had a real chance to challenge Vettel on the final laps.

Grosjean obviously defended well, but Vettel, on hard tyres, managed to get past him a little earlier. So, I don't think you can blame the fact that Webber ended up behind Vettel on strategy alone; Vettel also raced better, and presumably looked after his tyres better as well.

Still a good effort from Webber, but I think the finishing order was a fair reflection of the way he and Vettel were racing.

44

They were scrubbed mediums and most likely the most scrubbed up set they could find.....

45

+1 Absolute win for team strategists.

46

It's true. They had both Mark and Serb on a two stop as confirmed by the radio calls for them to back off. Then on lap 22, Mark is told he is now on a 3 stopper, while Seb remain on two. Pit reporter says marks used primes look fine after 2nd stop.

So as Mark said after the race he got caught out between the two. He knows what happened and why. REDBULL didn't want mark to remain in front of Seb.

If people still doubt the conspiracy theorist after this race......well you're not looking at the race close enough.

Let's hope Riciardo doesn't play along with it for too long. Why Mark hasn't gone completely rougue yet is disappointing.

Redbull as a team are a disgrace. Sad part is, it takes away credit from Seb because they erase his competition by stealth.

47

Still can't understand this whole notion that Webber gets a rawl deal at RBR. He might have done a couple of years ago, but all my sympathy for him has gone. Everybody love nice, straight-talking, Mark. That niceness and that straight talking for the journalists and cameras only distracts us from the fact that he's the poorest driver with a good car out there. I'm sure you could take anyone from Alonso, Kimi, Grosjean, Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg and Button and put them in the same car as Seb. I'm not saying any one of them would beat Seb over a season, but I'm sure all of the above would get the better of him more times than Webber has this season.

I like the guy as a character and F1 will be poorer for losing him but, come on, we talk about Massa being a waste of a good seat at Ferrari. Webber is as bad if not worse.

48

Mmmmm.... I dunno, things have changed over at RB - not taking anything awAy from Seb but all the problems on Marks car are now suspect.

Any other week if Marks car was this competitive it would have a problem come race day. I have joked about this over the past few races but the strategy calls this weekend when his times were still consistent....c'mon

While SV is the better driver Mark has beaten him and has been competitive. But you think about it if the cars were equal then the team would dominate the sport aka McLaren, Williams back in the day when team orderswhere ignored but all was equal in terms of machinery.

Those Schumacer years........

49

Not convinced they would beat SV any more than MW has. The RB is built around Vettel and his dominance is a combination of a driver at the top of his game in a car that is at the top of it's game (would SV win the championship in a Marussia? No, so some of it must be the car!). His dominance is to his credit as he has earned it. I reckon it all went wrong for Mark Webber in Korea 2010. If he'd won the championship that year Red Bull might (might) have been a little more accommodating of his driving style and tailored the car to him. As it was SV won the first of what will be many world championships (more than 4 I would have thought) and garnered the might of RB forever more. SV went forward MW went backwards. I hope that next year with the changes coming in SV won't be as dominant - however I can see that after the summer break he will be mighty again, so the other teams need to make hay in the earlier part of the season and hang on for dear life at the end of the European season. Well done SV, a worthy champion, but I hope it will be closer next year!

51

Exactly!

52

Grow up just honour Seb for being the champion he is, if most of the Hamilton/Alonso/Webber fans are now man enough to admit Seb's brilliance I'm sure the rest can, you're witnessing an all time great maybe even an all time top 5 driver here, I always feel privilaged to be watching these kind of drivers, starting with Senna even though I was a tad too young in the late 80's and early 90's but I understood his brilliance I'm just dissapointed in the small group of english media and fan for being ignorant and bitter with jealousy but at the end of the day Seb drove a clever race whilst having a rough weekend and won a straight up derserved win, if Webber had been on the 2 stops after that first stint of his he would have been swallowed up by even Grosjean and maybe even Alonso and Raikkonen then what would the people say? RBR have bent over backwards in plessing Mark and give him everything he needs to win for the past 9 years its just fact he is not good enough compared to Vettel, get over it.

53

Dear DomJones

The majority on this site never saw senna race. Myself included. There was no coverage in rural Ontario. If you believe the hype you agree that there are no good drivers in f1 now. You assume that since Vettel does not have to battle, his competition is weak. If Vettel is unworthy of Sennas legacy, what does that say of the likes of Ham and Alonso who can't win, or even bring a real battle. They are not overcoming any great deficit, they are just plain losing, to a driver who is by all account -- useless.

54

I'm a Hamilton fan and I'll admit that Vettel is a great driver. However, people would give him lot more respect if more of his wins were like today's win instead of the usual lights to flag, 5 second lead, walk in the park.

He does what he has to do almost faultlessly. He gets poles, drives away and rarely makes mistakes. If the others can't keep up that's their problem. But F1 fans want to see battles for the lead but we don't usually get that with Vettel. Not his fault - but not very exciting.

Hamilton said this week that Vettel's dominance might be a turn off to fans. He's right. I haven't paid Sky for the Sky F1 channel since before Hungary - and I'm a dedicated F1 fan. I've been watching F1 for nearly 25 years. This era reminds me of 2002 and 2004. I used to watch the start of the race and if Schumacher was leading at the end of lap 1 it was a foregone conclusion and I'd go and do something else. There's more racing down the order these days so I do stay tuned (usually to the highlights).

At this rate, by the middle of next year Vettel will have won more races and more championships than Senna but who will people rate higher? People who remember watching Senna remember him battling, overtaking, fighting, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but definitely earning respect as a great racer.

Webber has had the Red Bull for longer than Vettel but Vettel has trounced him - and generally trounced everyone else. He must be a great driver to get those results. He does everything right, but his race wins are usually straight forward and boring. His dominance is a turn off. What excitement do his fans get from watching him cruise round five seconds in the lead race after race after race?

55

Webber was running in front controlling race then they gave him a slower strategy, track position is king

When you are running in front with a gap the best strategy is to react,

Vet did not earn that win the team gave it to him

They played grosjean so that vet ended p1

RB strategists won today

56

Yes, probably my favourite race of the season. Grosjean was very hard done by racing both Red Bulls, as he just couldn't cover off both strategies, meaning he was kind of in no-mans land.

57

I'm not sure Webber made a big difference - Vettel was able to close to the point where the undercut could work - it was then a case a what lap could the Red Bull do that and still get home. Lotus had to stop Grosjean on that lap to force a pass on the track. On the hard tyres the Red Bull was just too strong. If the only available race tyres were the mediums then the Lotus would have won.

58

Last line *Grosjean

59

Vettel heads red bull 1-2. Must be a conspiracy! RB changes it's mind quite a lot it seems, yesterday they were sabotaging vettel's kers and today they sabotaged webber's race lol.

Mark was attacking grosjean and in the process destroyed his tires, while vettel patiently sat behind waiting for his turn. Webber could never do a 2 stop because he's much harder on tires than Seb as witnessed numerous times since pirelli came into f1.

Good effort by gro to keep the RBs behind but he used too much fuel in the process and obviously had to run lean in the final stint, before parking his car at the end of pitlane. What goes around, comes around.

Funny how mercs self-destructed. Hamilton driving into vettel was a racing incident as far as I see it. He thought he was already in front, much like grosjean in spa last year.

Silly stuff in the pitlane forcing ros to do a drive trough, dropping him way down the field and then got stuck behind hulk who was doing a fantastic race.

Alonso lucks into somewhat good position as usual.

If anybody could hold RBs behind it was raikkonen, had he not botched qualifying yesterday. His fault entirely. Doesn't seem like a bright future in ferrari with 2 less than optimal qualifiers in the team.

60

Mark was told to attack Grosjean. Rocque to Vettel..."Mark is working on Grosjean now, hold station". Excellent strategy from Red Bull nonetheless, I think Mercedes in a similar position would have kept both their drivers on a 2-stopper just to prove their equal-status and lost the win.

61

"...Mark was attacking grosjean and in the process destroyed his tires, while vettel patiently sat behind waiting for his turn. Webber could never do a 2 stop because he’s much harder on tires than Seb as witnessed numerous times since pirelli came into f1..."

You nailed it!

62

Actually if you bother to look at the replay you can see Webber move sharply right squeezing Hamilton into Vettel.

Racing incident yes but he didn't drive into Vettel, he was pushed, the puncture was just plain bad luck.

63

+1

It is refreshing to see not everybody is in the auto-conspiracy mode.

Btw. You forgot to mention the schizopfrenia of RedBull, who for once not only sabotaged Mark's, but also Seb's start! Bad, bad guys!

Or they maybe really care about what Lewis said about boring F1, so they just try hard to improve races 🙂

But looking at quality of their drivers they need to do better. LOL

64

This is in my wind why Vettel is true class and not the car. Webber couldn't overtake Gro despite fresher and faster tyres. Vettel breezed passed him on slower tyres and when Gro was on fresher tyres himself.

It should have been easy for Web but he just doesn't have the same talent as Seb.

65

I would like you to remind that Mark Webber was running a LOW DOWNFORCE setup on his car,unlike Vettel and Grosjean,who had HIGH DOWNFORCE setups...And so,Webber did not have same traction out of corners as Vettel and Grosjean..So it took long for him to pass Grosjean..Webber is a class driver..

66

I never said Webber wasn't a class driver, and thanks for point out the OBVIOUS about the car set ups.

So let me remind you that because Mark had a LOW DOWNFORCE set up he should have been faster (much) on the straights and able to overtake easier (especially) with DRS

67

AND because he had LOW downforce,he had LESS TRACTION coming out of corners than Grosjean..If you get a good traction out of final corner,you can streak away from the behind car ..For DRS to be effective,Mark had to be really,really close to Romain after the chicane..In normal case,if he was little behind also, DRS would have enabled him to pass Grosjean earlier than what we saw in the race at Japan..

If you are too far behind in the DRS straight,no matter how much extra speed you have using DRS,you cannot pass the front car..

68

Oh the excuses

69

oh the reasons. It's called physics. Webber is a class driver - that's why he is in a team tat is winning so many WCCs. He's just not as good as Vettel.

70

That's true in a way but not in another. Webber and Vettel had different set ups. Webber ran less rear wing so was slower out of the chicane and out of spoon curve. Vettel is a class act no doubt.

71

WEB couldn't overtake because of his car setup versus GRO's car setup... it's at least 50/50 car and driver in F1 and it's generally true for motor sport...

72

How does a Red Bull 1-2 prove it's Vettel and not the car? All this does is confirm (i) Red Bull has the best car, and (ii) Vettel is better than Webber; both of those we already knew.

73

Yup. Thank you for posting some sense.

74

+10000

75

No, thet dont have the same car and they sure as hell make the strategy favour Vettel

Anyone with there eyes open can see that.

76

First it was multi 21.

Then Multi 3.

Apparently, multi is a Red Bull code word for 'Screw Vettel's teammate'

78

Well, anyone that want to see that

79

Yes, my eyes were open enough to see that WEB car was set up for straight line speed with the skinny wing. And even with DRS still struggled. So it's arguable that WEB had a faster car set up...

80

No no no no no. Skinny wing = less downforce, less traction out of corners, moving around more in the corners, unable to follow as closely through the corners, left behind on the straight with a bigger deficit to make up over the car ahead along the (relatively short) straight. A need to brake earlier too as stopping distance is longer. All of this made it harder for Webber to pass Grosjean. Mind you, you have to ask, why did he opt for that setup in the first place? The error was made before the red lights went out.

81

Vettel was on fresh primes when he overtook Grosjean but I agree, it's things like this that separate Webber and Vettel.

82

Yeah but when Vettel overtook Grosjean the frenchmans tyres was fresher than it was when Webber was struggling to overtake him, who says Seb can't overtake and race should take note this was an example on where Webber ruined his chance of a win due to his lack of overtaking ability compared to Seb.

83

Seb had a huge car advantage when he overtook Grosjean, as with the high downforce wing he was able to follow RG much closer than mark even could (mark was running a skinny wing hence why he was under steering out of spoon and the esses.

84

I agree. I actually beleive that if Red Bull would put Vettel on a 3 stop strategy and Webber on a 2 stop, the result at the end of the race would probably be exactly the same: 1 VET 2 WEB 3 GRO

85

Webber has shown us why he is leaving the sport. Any racer worth his salt would have overtaken Grojen.

86

What? Track position is king japan is not an easy place to overtake

87

Kimi didn't beat him in the same car. Just be gracious and try not to bitch about drivers. Be a good sport.

88

Yeah. Webber so should have overtaken GRO. That would mean Webber would have come second right?

90

Nope, it would have been (1) VET (2) GRO (3) WEB.

Webber does not manage his tyres well enough to have even equaled his second place on a two stopper.

91

Totally agree. Webber wouldn't have found a place or point to pass Gro with 2-stopper.

92

Rocky," you're not racing mark, you're racing Grojean ".

Redbull shananigans again. Did that mean Mark was already out of their equation?......so far from the finish.

Good strategy .SV.

93

Followed by "save your tyres so you have some left to race with Mark at the end". Mark's fault he didn't get past Grojean quickly enough to make a fight for it at the end as RBR expected.

94

Exactly. RBR expected Webber to use those fresh options and his low downforce/top speed setting in his final stint to make the move on Grosjean and hunt Vettel down.

95

I took that radio comment to mean that Vettel and Grojean were obviously on the same (two-stop) strategy at that stage.

96

Virtually confirmed by Webber on Sky!!! And people are being accused of being mad conspiracy theorists when the proof is right there.

97

Questions - if Webber had trouble passing Gro with medium tires that were munch fresher (not sure if he could have succeeded without the traffic at the end), what would be the odds for him to pass Gro in equal or older tires? When comparing the odds of the two scenarios, what would you have done if you were in charge?

98

Webber's a talented driver but when it comes down to it he's talented loser and anyone can see his tyres couldn't hold up and would have been beaten easily by Grosjean on a 2 stop hence why they had to switch to a 3 stop which proved he could have took the fight to Seb but ultimately ran out of talent in he couldn't clear Romain with a faster car in a straight coupled that with Grosjean's ever degrading tyres.

99

What did Webber say on Sky?

100

Actually that Webber virtually accusing the team of not being entirely honest with him re: his stretegy.

101

"After the first stop, the guys said we were still on a two [-stop strategy], 'there's no problem so keep looking after the tyres, we can get to the target lap," he told Natalie Pinkham.

"That was the plan, I was looking to wait behind Romain and then squeeze up between lap 28 and 31 - which was the target lap. Then, on lap 25, the guys said we were going to a three-stop.

"I asked the guys if this was right. They said 'yes, give it a go'. And that was it.

"I don't have the whole chess match in front of me. They had more information than me.".......They had the whole chessmatch alright, one with Vettel with a gifted win.

102

Webber's bitter like Barrichello.

3 stops was probably the optimal strategy today for Red Bull, but anyway, he couldn't make it work. Couldn't get past Grosjean on fresh mediums. There wasn't a point in the race when Webber was trying to do anything but win. Had he caught Vettel we may have seen him be told to be careful, but he couldn't get close enough. Red Bull did nothing to compromise Webber's afternoon. They could have brought Vettel in earlier than Webber to get the undercut early but didn't.

103

Doug, well said. That's exactly why Helmut sniffs around the garage..........to look after the Redbull brand. Though thy leave a lot to be said about sportsmanship and fair play.

104

And you are the gullible type of a fan willing to accept everything that you see and are told without critical analysis. Red Bull are trying to build a legend and a brand out of vettel and a Webber win was not in their "One of 6 drivers to ever get 5 wins in a row (or whatever it is)" scheme of things. So they simply manipulated the race in WWF fashion. I dont know about you but I get offended when they think I will dutifully lap up such manipulation like some gullible unintelligent F1 fan. With all their resources dont for a second tell me they did not know putting Webbo on a three stop would clear the way for fingerboy Vettel and lose Webber the race? For crying out loud no other front running team even bothered with a three stopper EXCEPT Red Bull for Webber! If they were honest and open about instead of trying to pull wool over our eyes, they would have my respect.

105

I think it just meant that they were now on different strategies.

106

No, it means they expected Webber to win and Vettel to fight for second with Grosjean.

107

no , it was red bull confirming that they had strategised webber out of the equation as brundle realised what has been done to webbers strategy.

i said yesterday that there was no way that redbull would allow webber to win. even webber said he was surprised when they changed his strategy and he questioned it!!!!

when the car to pit to car transcripts are published it will be interesting to hear the full wording of vettels plaintive call for help...'don't let him near me' or words to that effect. maybe other posters will fill in the spaces if i have got it wrong.

108

Brundle fuels people like the Vettel [mod] with small hints and digs at Seb but making it out he is not discrediting Seb, there are plenty ofhis puppets on here and I use to think James was like Brundle on this subject but he has proved he isn't and any intelligent person can see whats going on. As for the race just admit it Vettel did the best job, Redbull did everything they could for Webber but he just wasn't quick enough, enjoy the rest of the season.

109

The only person who did anything to Webber's strategy was Webber. He's the one who was chewing through his tyres faster than his teammate ... as he has been doing for the past several years. But invariably there's still somebody out there scratching his head in bewilderment asking "Why did they pit Webber earlier?"

110

"Get him out of the way, even if he's on options"

"Charlie, get him out of my way please, thank you".

It was Vettel asking for Perez to be moved aside and lapped as he was on new options and holding Vettel up.

111

Great drive by Seb after the bad start and damaged front wing, its clear that the 2 stop was a slower strategy especially with Webber's degredation, no doubt the vultures will be swarming saying the team favoured Seb but it wasn't true Mark on 2 stops would have probably lost to Grosjean and another note why was Brundle so fast to say Seb meant Webber when he said Perez needed to get out the way after coming out the pit and baulked Seb for over a lap? It was obvious but yet another thing to stir the pot! English speaking media and 'fans'? Yeah well Seb won yet again best driver in the world, enjoy.

112

How was 2 stop slower, all the pundits said 2 stop was faster plus you have to deal with traffic on a 3

113

The media are not anti-Vettel. Anyone I've ever heard speak of SV is quite clear that he is a genuinely nice bloke away from the cameras. His problem is the image he likes to project in front of the fans and viewing public.

Perhaps you could tell who the anti-Vettel pundits are.

114

Damaged front wing? Looked fine to me, team said it looked fine as well.

I've hated the wide front wings since day 1, can't wait to see the back of them! How many times have we seen punctures or broken front wings from close (but not that close) racing? Hopefully the 15cm reduction in the front wing width next year is enough to make such occurrences a rarity.

Tealeaf and SteveS, may I ask where you come from, and what your mother tongue is? The anti-anglophone, anti-Brit sentiment just comes off strange. Just wondering what motivates it.

Congrats to your driver, he drove a very good race.

115

"The anti-anglophone, anti-Brit sentiment just comes off strange."

It's a desperate attempt to explain why Vettel is disliked by many.

And SteveS is American.

116

I come front England and south of England so there you go, James can verify my IP address, I just have problems with this country's ignorant people's attitudes towards the world, no one owns anything or anywhere, without Germany, Asia and the rest of the world I'd be missing out on alot of things like this BMW I'm sitting in and the Samsung smartphone I'm typing this message on, but now lets get back to the racing yes these front wings are stupid I agree and even though Vettel's front wing looked alright there was significant contact so I'm sure it wasn't completely 100%, also with it being a dodgy weekend for Seb with lack of setup work Saturday FP3 and a KERSless Q3 and that start I'd say he done a great job, Webber was nearly beaten by Grosjean even though it was a perfect weekend for him the Redbull wasn't much faster than Lotus. As for Hamilton's puncture? Unfortunate, Alonso barely beating Hulkenberg? Poor, Raikkonen outshone by Grosjean big time? Worrying for Ferrari, Luca get the cheque book out convince vettel to join the team its win win for both and time to prove whos what, it'll silence everything.

117

Hohohoho!!!!

I'm sure VET can go to Ferrari NOW if he really want to. You know... he have a dream to drive for then. Ohh... I'd *LOVE* to see that.

Seems to me he is not that confident he can face ALO or KIM. Agree???

118

Are you English, I mean English ancestry, or part of a diaspora? I just got the impression that your tendency towards black-and-white arguments was as a result of posting to a foreign-language site, so sorry for that.

Being from England, I would think you could see first-hand the English press' propensity to build up their sporting heroes, only to tear them down soon after. To generally think that the Fleet Street press reflects the country's collective opinion, is just so wide of the mark.

There are ignorant and xenophobic people in every corner of the world. Rarely are they the majority in any country, though their vocal nature might give that impression.

As for Germany, as with most countries, there is much to admire (German efficiency and know-how, their soccer team, etc.), and other stuff that puzzles (Hasselhoff's star status, while a brilliant comedy like Seinfeld fails), and other stuff that http://www.thinknice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/oktoberfest-girl-large.jpg" rel="nofollow">titillates. I know I wouldn't want the Germans to be any other way. 🙂

119

"I just have problems with this country’s ignorant people’s attitudes towards the world..."

And your unpleasant generalisations in the above isn't ignorant!?

And you're quick to credit, er, "Germany and Asia" yet neglect to acknowledge that without someone born in the UK (i.e James) you wouldn't be posting on this website.

120

what a big up that post was! [posted on my apple i-mac at around 9.25am as indicated by my omega constellation before i get into my audi A5 and head down to the university square for a sumptious breakfast before ralaxing around my pool reading the morning news on my samsung note tablet.]

121

I agree that Vettel was talking about Perez, but why would he think his team can do anything about it (unless it goes on for an extended period of time and then they talk to race control.) Its up to the flag marshals to signal to Perez to let Vetell pass, and if he does not then there would be a Stewards inquiry. I've not heard of any? I think its comments like these that Seb makes that makes him unpopular. It smacks of arrogance and a sense of deservedness. Sky did a big "Seb is misunderstood and a really nice guy behind the scenes", but they did not mention the list of comments like this that he has built up over time. I have no doubt that Seb is a nice person (you can only go by what the people that know him say), and he is obviously a very talented driver, but for me, I want my winners to be tough, confident, fair and gracious. It's comments like these that stop me from being a Seb fan.

122

Perez was holding him up for about 1 and half laps, Perez is actually a liability and all these 'racecrafts' last year was down to Sauber, they sacrificed Kobayashi's strategies to please Telmex and with a top driver Sauber would have won races last season, Mclaren please be bold sack him hire Hulkenberg and build the team around him and keep Button as a proven winner to push the Hulk, once a team relies on a pay driver the team always goes down its happened time after time dont get sucked into this blackhole Mclaren.

123

I'm pretty sure that Vettel could say "Hello" and certain people would claim it smacks of arrogance. God knows what they'd say if he ever claimed to be of "higher caliber" than other drivers.

124

It was a call from Vettel to race control asking for Perez to be told to yield position as with his fresh option tyres, Vettel was sat in his dirty air.

125

why couldn't the four times world champion make a pass? c'mon james...he is notorios for making these silly requests.

126

Get the feeling the drivers really don't quite trust Perez! I did wonder if FOM released that particular radio snippet to reinforce that little storyline (in the name of entertainment) but instead it was misinterpreted as Vettel taking a swipe at Webber (fitting in with yet another popular, ongoing storyline!)

127

Drivers make comments about back markers so that race control hear them and ensure the timely blue flags are waved. Many drivers make similar comments, only with Vettel apparently according to fans it smacks of arrogance. It's simply bias.

128

Just because blue flags are waved, doesn't mean they're always observed by the drivers. And just because the flags are waving but a driver isn't letting the lead car through, doesn't mean race control are always right on the case. And even if that backmarker is warned, still ignores it and cops a penalty for ignoring blue flags... well great, he'll be out of the way when he travels the pit lane, but that's not much consolation for the driver who was held up by him.

Remember last year's USGP where Vettel was just managing to hold off Hamilton lap after lap until he was Karthikeyan'd through the twisty bits? Grosjean and Webber weren't quite that close to him, but Vettel knew he had to keep up his pace with minimal delays, so he got on the radio to make sure race control and the team kept an eye on Perez.

And no, it's not anything like a Vettel-only thing. I've heard it many times before, and in much less pleasant tones, and I'm sure there have been many others and many other worse messages that were never played over the feed.

129

My evidence is watching races since the 1990s, hearing these comments many times and the commentators says that's a message to race control. I'm not saying flags aren't waved, just that drivers want to make sure they are waved in a timely fashion so they do not get held up by a driver not paying attention.

131

and your evidence is? I'm confident that blue flags are waived in a timely manner 99% of the time.

132

IMO Weber yet again was short changed with strategy that isn't favorable. I had the feeling that he had the will, craft and the pace to win this race but it wasn't to be as long as that pit wall got the "DOCTOR". In any case I support SF so it is not my business after all. I am just more and more resent as the season progresses. From being top 3 teams SF is sliding towards 5th place in the bunch. If it wasn't for FA race craft and perseverance SF wouldn't currently hold 2nd spot in constructors Championship. I am sorry to say but think the time has come for Massa to find some other formula. I doubt someone is going to give him a seat in 2014.

133

@tealeaf

another note why was Brundle so fast to say Seb meant Webber....

To be fair Brundle apologised later on for his error. I imagine during live commentary it's relatively easy to get things wrong - Murray made a career out of it 🙂

134

Yeah just like yesterday where Simon made a foot note of saying Seb didn't have KERS for Q3, today he had to say something and its all half hearted mumbles when they do correct themselves, its clear to see what Brundle's trying to do, Murray made mistakes but he never insulted anyway or try to stir the pot to add fuel to the fire for the haters of a driver, he never done it with Schumacher or Senna, Murray might have been clumbsy but he had class something Brundle and the likes of Gary Andrson lacks, even their predictions for cars in winter testing are well off these so called 'experts' was distinctly average in their main career in F1 and just can't handle the fact that Vettel and to a certain degree Alonso are just dominating F1 by force and the message they try to get across are quite pathetic in my opinion, rant over. Next race please.

135

I think you need to take a couple of chill pills 🙂

Honestly, I think you are imagining this perceived bias. I agree with you regarding Gary Anderson and his pre-season predictions, it really irritates me.

However, your point about Gary Anderson and Martin Brundle being biased against Vettel and Red Bull is simply wrong. Martin always goes out of his way to praise them. Gary Anderson recently wrote a piece on the BBC saying how great the Red Bull and Vettel were and he also said he didn't think much of LH.

Finally, please may I make a polite request - please can you refrain from referring to anyone who is not a fan of Vettel as a hater.

136

You keep ranting, but your accusations of media has no substance or basis. Someone daring to have an opinion that differs to yours does not make them biased towards Vettel. Since Vettel broke onto the scene in 2007, one thing has been constant in the media, and that is the he is one of the best of his generation. The fact that the media do not always support Vettel in the way that you would like should not be used to make sweeping unfounded statements. Rant Over.

137

Yes, the blatant anti-Vettel bias of the majority of British pundits is getting very tedious.

138

To be fair to the British, the US feed was questioning the strategy as well. True, the three of them are of Australian and British origin, but as a Vettel fan, I never felt that they had any bias against him. I was questioning the potential gifting situation as well, until realizing after watching the race again, that Mark could NOT have finished in front of Gro with a 2-stopper.

139

Let me remind you that Brundle was one of the first to recognise Vettel's talent.

"That boy will be world champion, sooner rather than later"

140

Yeah Brundle probably is just about clever enough to realise Seb's talent back then but now all he wants to do is please the english speaking Hamilton/Webber fans and I can also see small subtle things he says to make Vettel look bad, Brundle as a professional of the front line british media should show more respect, him, Simon and Gary Anderson are the worst 3 english pundits/presenters in trying to discredit Seb and back in the days Alonso and Schumacher, give it a rest be professional they and the pubic know deep down how good Vettel is now, I was skeptical a couple of years ago as I've always been a Button and Raikkonen fan but its clear to see Seb outraced Webber today and nearly every other race.

141

Let me put it this way. A German driver is hardly popular in the eyes of British media or fans.

142

Some of us british (English here...) fans have no problem at all with Vettel...

143

I wish the fans would show a little more respect for Vettel! When he has won the race, and has got out of his car, and gives the victory number one sign, it is considered good form to respond by raising the INDEX finger in return, and not the middle one.

144

I don't think that's true. Obviously if Seb was British he'd suffer the same fawning focus from the national press that Hamilton enjoyed when he was a WDC contender, but I pick up on no anti-German bias at all.

Most fans seem to rate Seb as a driver and as a character. The problem is his peerlessness. It's all too easy for him, or at least it looks that way.

145

I think it's normal to favor drivers of your own country. Winning drivers are also often more popular. I said often! 😉

146

I always get a laugh out of comments like this. You know, there's always a possibility the issue isn't English speaking media/fans being anti-Vettel, or anti-German.

It could be that those who make such comments are actually anti-English themselves.

Just putting it out there.

147

🙂 lol Yes. !

148

But Brundle is usually not anti-Vettel, is he?

149

aezy_doc that the possibility of fans supporting someone or something not of their own nationality is something so odd that they can't understand it. I guess then they would have no understanding of someone like me who doesn't rate the Brits and supports a German, and would have no understanding that I am not interested in a Brit-centric commentary.

150

What does it say Sue? I'm not getting it. Ted's comment seems sensible enough to me. There aren't even any Japanese engines at the moment. What is the Japanese interest in f1? No driver, no teams. It's remarkable that so many people turn up to support no one.

151

No SteveS, for me (and I think many) it was Malaysia, no media needed...only our own eyes and ears and from the players themselves. True colours on display.

152

I thought Brundle's mis-comment about who Vettel was asking to be kept out the way was more about playing to the narrative Sky had set up for this race - a focus on Webber/Vettel's mutual enmity, the potential for team orders (and possible disobeying), and how this might affect the race. They were so caught up with keeping to this core theme it didn't occur to Brundle that the most obvious person Vettel was speaking about was Perez in front of him, rather than Webber. The Sky team was seemingly more engrossed in the team-mate 'battle' than the actual team-mates, who were just getting on with it! The BBC commentary team didn't make the same mistake.

153

The British media are certainly pro the Brits (including Newey) pro Alonso and pro Webber which means apparently they have to discredit Vettel. Names - the whole Sky team. Very nice to see Murray's recent comments, rare in the British media.

Ted's odd comment about so many Japanese fans attending despite there not being any Japanese driver or team says so much about the attitude of Sky presenters on their nationalistic approach to coverage.

154

Haha SteveS... if the press says something good about anyone else it's "anti-Vettel bias" and when they say something good about Vettel it's "making up for past bias". I think you've finally lost it.

155

The biased fans are a result of the biased media. In fairness, some (not all but some) members are the press are now belatedly trying to correct the impressions left by their past bias, but it's not that easy to correct a false impression on the part of the fans.

You only have to look at all the people moaning about how RB supposedly "sacrificed Webber to gift Vettel the win" to see the end result of years of pervasive anti-Vettel bias in the press. To this day huge numbers of people think that Webber is a decent, honest, honorable guy who was stabbed in the back by his dirty teammate. They came by that particular bit of nonsense from reading/watching F1 pundits.

156

Brundle is not anti-Vettel. He is a good friend of Mark Webbers though.

157

Hogwash name one anti Vettel British pundit.

Go on the BBC website and see what Murray Walker says about Vettel.

Yes a lot of fans of all nationalities are not pro Vettel but please stop trying to make out this a British thing.

I think its more your problem with the British people for whatever reason.

158

The misinterpretation from Brundle that Vettel's "get him out of the way, keep him away from me" was about Webber instead of Perez who he was just about to lap doesn't suggest commentators too ready to believe and exacerbate the hype? The BBC's view that Webber's strategy hampered him when Vettel would have been able to make a three stopper work? Really these comments are just too tedious and a bit of balance would be good. Susie Wolff coming in and spouting the same views is unhelpful, surely there is someone brave enough to voice an opposing view isn't too much to ask? The British media need to look at themselves IMO when considering the bias from some fans, if only from a commercial point of view - millions switching off F1 because they don't believe the best driver is winning doesn't make commercial sense.

159

I tell ya, I get no respect!" - Rodney Dangerfield. 😉

160

Pundits in general aren't anti-Vettel, it's fans who are. And Brundle certainly isn't, he's always saying that Vettel doesn't get enough respect.

161

I'm not sure which British pundits are anti-Vettel?

162

You can always trust the biased British media (Sky this time) to take a radio message from Vettel directed against a backmarker almost being lapped, to turn around and portray it as Vettel telling the team to tell Webber not to pass.

So obvious now.

163

I too was wondering about that comment.

When the radio transmission went out, Vettel was coming onto Perez and the comment was obviously in relation to Perez's penchant for fighting the wrong race.

I do believe that almost all the drivers are too aware that Perez is a dangerous racer to tangle with. He is not afraid to push other cars to the edge.

164

if i heard it correctly vettel said something along the lines of, 'tell him not to come near to me'. now how could this relate to perez? was horner supposed to telephone whitmarsh and give him vettels message?

maybe i have totally mistaken what what was actually said. someone please post tha actual message from vettel.

165

It was a message to race control (who hear all the team radio messages) along the lines of "get him out of the way" to ensure blue flags were waved to Perez.

166

The BBC guys (live in Canada as for every race) immediately interpreted the message as regarding lapping Perez.

167

Yes Coulthard abd Edwards are somewhat more impartial towards Seb.

168
Scuderia McLaren

Isn't it FOM?

169

Vettel points tied with Ferrari.

170

Look at Lotus and Mercedes for WCC too. If Lotus keep this uo they may take 3rd. Maybe even 2nd! They had a 40 or 50 point gap after Korea. They are all over 3rd place now. More DNFs for Mercedes cannot be afforded.

171

The race between Ferrari, Merc and Lotus is exciting! Lotus will be desperate to take 3rd - even 2nd if poss - as they so desperately need the cash.

172

Yes, great! If Vettel was a constructor, he would be second on the Constructor's Championship!!

173

If Vettel was a constructor, he would be first on account of having more wins than Ferrari. It's enitrely possible Vettel's about to win both championships by himself. There stems the cause of all the booing, he's so insufferably good everyone's getting flashbacks to Schumacher...

174

Yes, I noticed that too. I was actually looking at this last week after Korea and thought it might happen. Not good for Ferrari.

176

Webber! Useless. Perfect opportunity failed big time nearly lost to Grosjean as well. Perfect overtaking easily from Vettel something Webber couldn't do and Susie Wolff or whatever she's called trying to kiss up to the british viewers along with Brundle trying to take digs in on Vettel like telling Perez to get out the way and then Wolff constantly trying to say its the car. Its getting old get real Vettel is far too good for rhe field including Alonso and Raikkonen, shame Lewis retired I think a top 4 would have been easy and Perez? Worse driver in a top team since Kovalainen.

177

Vettel is a much better driver than Webber, I think we can agree on that. And the RBR car is built around Vettel too.

Now what is interesting is that Webber qualified 0.750 ahead of Alonso. With KERS working, Vettel would've probably been 1 second ahead of Alonso if not more.

The second thing that we all can agree is that Alonso is a better driver than Webber, therefore how good is that RBR car if even Webber can put it 0.750 ahead of the Ferrari?

Now there's something to think about for all those Vettel fans who think the car has nothing to do with the results.

178

Couple of points. Even Massa outqualified Alonso by 3 tenths, and I doubt anyone will say he is close to Alonso's level. Also, although I agree with Alonso being a better driver over race distance, over 1 lap Webber would make a decent fist of it no question.

179

That actually is a very good point.

180

Alonso got out qualified by Massa (again) and Hulkenberg (again) in a car with a customer Ferrari engine.

181

He didn't have an excellent race. He finished where he was supposed to.

He has a car that is lightning off the grid (traction control), Hamilton got a puncture, Rosberg got a drive through.

All he did was pass Massa who has had no business driving in F1 since his accident, and he passed a Sauber - which has a customer Ferrari engine and has had little development work throughout the year.

182

@ anon

It does not really matter anon. Alonso did a excellent job in the race where it matters the most.

Moreover Alonso did trounce massa to the core for the last 4 seasons. I doubt how much knowledge you have about F1. In the last few races sauber have really made some superb improvements to the car. Sauber were quicker in korea and here in japan as well

Your comparison is the joke of millennium

Get some sense before you post the anti-alonso stories or comments

183

You are saying it like Hulkenberg is a rookie in a back-of-the-grid car. Look at the facts below and tell me if you still think being outqualified by Hulkenberg in the Sauber is something out if the ordinary.

Hulkenberg outqualified Kimi in Suzuka, Koreea, Singapore and Monza. Basically all last 4 races.

Hulkenberg outqualified Massa, Alonso, Lewis, Kimi, Rosberg and Grosjean in Monza.

184

You can say till your red bull blue in face-they dont listen..but this sums it up well @Mister

185

Can you please elaborate on what exactly you mean by 'we all know that Alonso is a better driver thean Webber'? Have you got any proof? Did they drive equal cars recently?

186

TWO WDC Titles against Schummy. Is that good enough for you???

187

"Have you got any proof?"

If you watched the last 2-3 seasons you wouldn't ask such question.

188

If you want a laugh have a look at her racing record on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susie_Wolff

189

Can you provide the link to your racing record please? Or anything of note.

190

Have to check his Xbox first!!

191

I'm not being paraded on tv as an expert criticising triple world champions.

192

"Vettel is far too good for the field including Alonso and Raikkonen"

You're right of course - all the other drivers (including the four other world champions) might as well just retire.

And Webber of course! Did an extra pit stop and still only finished seven seconds behind Vettel after being held up by Grosjean for three laps. That's just horrible!

Just how disrespectful can you be Dave?

193

Dave, I look forward to watching your F1 career with great interest. I'm sure you must be a better than useless driver. What's holding you back?

194

did we watch the same race dave C? to anyone who understands F1 racing, webber did not have the downforce that vettel had due to the rear wing on webbers car. it was painfully obvious and apparent to everyone else that webber lost out big time in corner exit.

195

Please, do you really think the strategy calls favoured the leader being Webber ? Of course not. Best strategy to Vettel.

How many times did the tv coverage show Vettels front lockups ?

We know the pecking order at rbr. Nothing new.

198

Webber is well known for struggling to make his tyres last. He wouldn't have lasted on a 2 stop. He pitted too early for his first stop. After that it seems he was locked in. If he'd stayed out, he may have still stayed ahead of Grosjean if his tyres didn't cliff it (they were 4 laid older than Grosjean's), but Vettel would have swallowed him up for sure. By pitting on mediums the team expected him to attack Vettel at the end. Vettel showed his strength today.

199

At RBR we call that a "doctor" factor, don't we? You give the guy to travel the long way round and yet blame Weber for loosing to a favored one ? Get to the grips.

200
Scuderia McLaren

Take what Susie says with a grain of salt. She's hardly any more an expert than you or I. She'd be no where in an RBR, that's for sure.

201

Suzie is a professional race driver which makes her an expert in my book. Anyone on this site being paid to race cars?

202

@gpfan

I'm sure there's a movie to be made there 🙂

203

Not since I retired after winning

my 3rd WDC in 1973.

It was then, I became an astronaut.

204

I get paid to drive a cab and sometimes I drive it fast...does that count? 😉

205

Interesting race. It was like chess game, with different strategies ...

Too bad Webber couldn't pass Grojean sooner, so we could see Seb/Mark fight at the end. Seb didn't lose time with Grojean - he always gets the job done, whatever the strategy.

Great drive by Grojean and Hulkenberg again, it would be nice to see them together at Lotus next year - with a competitive car.

What's with Mercedes, the are totally losing it? After Hungary I thought Hamilton will challenge Vettel for the title, now they can even finish 4th in the WCC standings.

206

Seb was stuck behind Button when HAM passed Button easily in Hungary. Car set up had something to do with it. I wonder if Mark was set up to do a Vettel disappearing act that did not work, which made overtake harder, and that was why 3-stop was used to have better tires to mitigate the set up differences to give Mark a chance to pass Lotus.

207

Lotus are going to sign Massa.

208

Only six drivers in history have won five or more successive races. Alberto Ascari (nine), Michael Schumacher (seven), Jack Brabham, Jim Clark, Nigel Mansell and Sebastian Vettel (all five).

209

A nice stat to have, for sure. But see the pattern? Save for Ascari, all were in dominant cars, with decidedly inferior teammates (Ascari had the car definitely, but had Farina as a teammate).

That's how a driver like Button was able to get a 4-straight streak in 2009, or Alonso with a 4-straight and 3-straight in 2005 and 2006. Since 2010, Vettel's had five win streaks of 3 or more wins (two 3x, two 4x, plus the current streak).

Schumacher also had another 6-straight, and 5-straight run, to go with his 7-straight.

Senna winning 4 straight in 1988 with Prost in the other car, is more impressive, in my opinion.

Lastly, Ascari is 9 if you don't include the Indy 500 in 1953, which many F1 stats sites do; otherwise it's 7.

210

I think one of schumachers streaks (not the 7) was against Senna in a Newey designed williams, thats pretty impressive.

211

I believe Schumacher was driving a traction control aided Benetton that senna simply could not beat in what Newey admitted to be a problematic Williams

212

That was a 4-straight (his 3rd-6th win), right out of the gate in 1994. As Newey said in his recent interview with JA, the Williams was a horrible car at the start of the year.

It's a case of we'll-never-know, but I'm confident that had Senna lived, that he would've beaten Schumacher that season once Newey got the car sorted (seeing as Hill finished only a point back). That's to say nothing about the legality (or not) of the B194 that season.

213

That was a 4-straight, out of the gate in 1994. If you read or listened to the Newey interview on this site this past week, you'll see that Newey said the '94 Williams was a horrible car at the start.

It's a case of we'll-never-know, but I'm pretty confident had Senna lived, that he would've been able to beat Schumacher that season once Newey got the car sorted (seeing as Hill finished only a point back).

And that's to say nothing about the legality questions surrounding the B194 that year.

214

Although I'm Australian, that says everything you need to know about VET right there: one of the greats.

WEB is not in the same class. The same four routinely feature as great in races: VET, HAM, ALO and RAI. Any fan knows the truth, regardless of their own preferences.

216

Impressive.

217

Please note 1953 Indianápolis, so Ascari 7 as Schumacher, followed by Brabham, Clark, Mansell and Vettel with 5 each.

218

Where was Webber's overtaking skills? On a brand new set of tyres and Grosjean on older tyres compared to where Seb passed him easily! No doubt the usual fans will try to discredit Seb but it was a great drive after a bad start just too good.

219

They were a scrubbed set of Mediums - not new.

220

Webber's last set of medium's were scrubbed but I agree, he should have got Grosjean earlier. Vettel is a better overtaker than Webber and has proved it time and time again.

221

When your car handles better it is much easier to overtake.

222
Scuderia McLaren

+1

223

He had a different rear wing because of which he was losing traction coming out of the schicane, at least that's what Brundle said

224

Well we've all learnt from your previous comments that you're [mod]Vettel fan so I dont put much weight behind your opinions anymore. Webbers wing was affecting his rear tyre wear. That, combined with the traction of the Lotus meant no hope. Face it, Vettel is a spoilt brat with a team thats scared of him.

225

Have to agree with bear force. This anti-Vettel vitreous is sure getting tedious. Vettel was fantastic, so was grosjean, did a great job of defending on webber. New exactly where to stand on it going into the drs zone to neutralize web' s advantage.

226

How was his was less opinion based than what you've written?! You don't even have the facts right: it was Vettel who had the damaged wing not Webber!

Webber had fresher tyres relative to Grosjean than Vettel did when trying their respective overtakes, and it was Vettel who got down to business as efficiently as the German he is!

I'm not a Vettel fan and am sick of him winning too, but the fact some people can't respect his talent is just tiresome now and pathetic.

227

Not just the tyres though, but the overall down-force itself was compromised going through the corners.

228

Ok, I'll correct my post by realising you were talking about a rear wing difference. I watched BBC and this wasn't mentioned. Even so, considering the tyres Webber was on, he should have had the grip to easily do what Vettel did.

229

lol. Man are you gong to be embarrassed tomorrow when you read what you have written here today.

You have just had a temper tantrum online.

I would give more weight to @Equin0x than you @Clint. You haven't said anything constructive o or interesting. you have just attacked had a dummy spit at a person making a genuine post.

230

+1

"Webbers wing was affecting his rear tyre wear. That, combined with the traction of the Lotus meant no hope"

But he sort of got that part right at least...

232

Finally we got a race where RBR had to earn their victory!

Lotus pls keep your good form and RBR keep up with your bad starts!

I felt for Grosjean though...He was racing both RBRs on different strategy!, excellent job by RBR, to split the strategy to virtually ensure victory, In the end Seb came out on top.

gr8 race, good battles all round.

GRO for the driver of the day.

233

Exactly, great strategic team work from RB to beat Lotus ! Makes me wonder how championship worthy they would still be without the best car.

Although had Hamilton been in front of Vettel through the first stint it could have given Grosjean & Lotus more room to maneuver and maybe allow them to use the Mediums as they've never been good with Hards this year.

234

You're partly right and Vettel's pace in his last stint ultimately gave him the win and put Webber out of it.

But it's also down to execution, RB forced Lotus to go long (20+ laps) on middle AND last stints.

If they had been able to do a shorter last stint on Mediums Grosjean would have had a much better chance of staying in front of Vettel.

I think RB recognized that and decided to bring in Webber early, making it impossible for Lotus to use the Mediums again.

And in Germany there was a Safety Car screwing the fight. It wasn't a real 2 vs 3 stops strategy by Lotus.

235

At the Nurburgring, Lotus was the quicker car, they split the strategy between their drivers, yet Vettel still hung on to win.

Strategy only works if you have a driver able to make it work.

236

At the Nurburgring Lotus made the wrong strategy call & if I remember rightly it was the RB9 that was quicker on Sat. Better on tyres Does Not make a "quicker car ".. And that's where the strategy has to be perfect to win..& sadly it was not quite. Hungary was the same story both times Raikkonen questioned it.. Why do you think he's leaving - car+ team + driver wins he's not stupid he's got a better chance at Ferrari

237

Not correct entirely.....Lotus split strategy but only later on..after the last pit stops (late in the race). Whereas RBR decided to split it by the middle of the race. Makes a lot of difference when you have that much time to make those strategies work.

238

+1

Interesting how Grosjeans form has improved since Lotus have decided they now like him the best 🙂

239

Just shows the difference between being fully backed by the team, or half backed!

240

Hmmm … how Roman did manage to outperform Kimi in such big way? He is fighting with RBR guys for podium … meanwhile Kimi faded out to the middle of grid. I believe Ferrari has mixed feelings meanwhile Boullier is shining with big big smile. Lotus managed to build up a new leader with very strong performance in short term. Lets see how Roman will beat Kimi in the next races or ...

241

One race hardly makes one a new leader. And after a great start, Romain lost two places and came 3rd.

It's more like they have to hype Grosjean since Kimi is leaving.

242

It doesn't matter if Romain wins all 4 races now..the team is 100% behind him.Kimi is already gone in their opinion. But if you think going from 1st at the start to 3rd at the end & being happy about it is the sign of a champion, then I'm afraid he has a little way to go yet. Whereas the guy on the other side starts a disappointing 9th and almost took Alonso 4th and is somewhat disappointed. All this and he's not even paid yet..Lotus can smile but if they end up with Hulkenberg or Massa- Grosjean will have to go back to the fake smile again...

243

Hmmmmmm, grosjean is better than kimi since germany, 7 races, wake up don't believe the points only...

Raikkonen had 3 safety car, team order plus an unusual problem for the romain's car in singapor,

plus very arsh penalty for grojean in hungary...

244

Is it not surprising, though, that Kimi's form in qualifying has dropped noticeably since Hungary, with the tyre change? How long does it take for a team to solve an understeer problem? I am not suggesting some consiracy, but simply that no one at Lotus is willing to devote time and energy, as well as money, to work on a solution. They may do so if they have a chance for third or even second in WCC and need more points from both drivers.

Lotus needs to build up Romain's confidence, and attract sponsors, so they really want Romain to beat Kimi fair and square. Kimi spoiled it for them in previous races, but today they got it all right because Grosjean drove a fantastic race and Kimi lost places at the start with wheelspin. Credit is due to Romain who ceased the opportunity and made the best of it. He has certainly come of age.

Also, Kimi gets a lot of money for the points he scores and the podiums. Surely Lotus would like the points and the podiums to be scored by Romain, it would cost them a lot less.

245

Lotus engineers have always said, Grosjean is faster on paper and in the telemetry... not faster "way faster" is the term they used.

Kimi was struggling with Setup in Korea and Singapore yes, but feels the car is better here.

Instead of asking questions, read what Kimi said, he made a mistake in Q3 and lost time with the cars being so close in Quali that meant he lost a few grid spots. Provided he does not make a mistake in India, I see him qualifying a little better. Faster than Grosjean? No.. because, he is not.

246

Before the race,

Alonso : "Kimi is no quicker than Massa"

After the race,

Alonso starts P8 finishes P4.

Kimi starts P9 finishes P5. (less than 2 sec behind Alonso)

Massa starts P5 finishes P10.

Whom is Alonso kidding? Its the most ridiculous comment I ever heard!

247

Not ridiculous remember 2008? Also Massa qualified 5th kimi 11th, so Massa faster than kimi. Overall I would agree however that Kimi is the faster driver, but Massa still deserves some respect.

248

I didn't disrespect Massa...I only commented on what Alonso said prior to the race.

Also, we are here in 2013, if someone like Alonso keeps commenting on what happened in 2008, then I don't think anybody would really take him seriously.

249

you've really made yourself a target for the Alonso Media Corporation

250

haha....I don't mind, but I only comment on factual info.

Whatever, Alonso has achieved in his career is great, and he will go down as one of the all time greats.

but when he opens his mouth...its all about "I,Me,Myself".

251

To be fair to Alonso, you need to look at how Grosjean did in the race and where he finished in comparision to KImi.

252

To be fair to Kimi, Alonso made comparison between Kimi and Massa, so you had to look at where Massa and Kimi started their race and where they finished.

253

I think you said more than you realise; as you say Massa qualified ahead, which is all about speed.

Raikkonen moved forwards during the race, owing to consistency and race craft, whilst Massa went backwards due to his penalty.

A lot of Kimi fans seem to be mistaking consistency, race craft and all round quality with outright speed. Alonso only ever made reference to speed.

254

I understand what are you trying to say, but what's the use ; if with that good speed Massa only managed 1 point, whereas Kimi managed 8 and Alonso managed 10. (both of them where handicapped by poor qualifying.)

So, in today's race;

Alonso+Massa===> 11 points

Alonso+kimi====>18 points

That is exactly the reason why Ferrari have signed Kimi.

What I don't like about Alonso, is when he opens his mouth, he is all about "I,Me,Myself".

He criticizes the team, the car, & other drivers and quiet repeatedly keeps saying about how good he is etc etc....

255

In order to extract maximium one lap speed out of the car, it needs to be set up in order to get the maximum out of the tyres and minimize understeer or oversteer, depending on the driver's style. Neither Alonso nor Kimi can get the set up they want for qualifying after the tyre change, and both have suffered in comparison to their team mates. Ferrari seems to have lost race pace too. It appears, also, that Lotus is running much better with the new tyres on long race pace also, something that has benefited Grosjean who has mastered the new tyres in qualifying.

As for the qualifying speed of Alonso and Kimi, just look at how they did in 2005 when they went head to head and drove competitive cars. Kimi, especially, still holds the fastest time record on a few circuits, for qualifying and for the race. So, do not write them off just yet. In a competitive Ferrari, they will achieve front line starts. And, for those who have forgotten, pre-accident Massa was a pretty fast driver, outqualifying and outracing on occasion, he certainly held his own, Schumacher while at Ferrari.

256

I think Alonso peaked last year and is on the decline physically, reflexes and performance.

Sad but true I think.

257

He's getting old I especially notice when he only makes up 5 positions at the start!!

259

Those starts are due to the engine mapping more than anything. Even Massa is good off a standing start.

260

Maybe he wasn't that good.

He was basically gifted Malaysia by Perez making a young driver mistake and gifted Valencia by the perfect timing of the safety car and Vettel's mechanical breakdown while in the lead.

He stayed in contention on account of having a car with decent pace but incredible reliability.

261

"what about germany 2012 ? Who gifted alonso the pole and victory in the slowest car all weekend ?"

What? The Ferrari was quickest Saturday and Sunday. Talk about revisionist history.

The Ferrari has decent pace last year and incredible reliability.

Alonso had a fast car at Valencia, qualified low on the grid, was able to easily pass slower cars in the race and benefited greatly from the timing of pit stops and the safety car.

Last two races of 2012 Alonso got out qualified by Massa. Could only finish one second ahead of Massa in Brazil. Alonso choked like he did at Abu Dhabi 2010. He doesn't like pressure.

Yesterday was an example of how reliability helps you when you perform poorly in qualifying. He got 4th but all he did was pass a Sauber and Massa. Big deal. Hamilton went out of the race, Rosberg got a penalty. All of a sudden he's up to 4th despite not doing anything.

262

Alonso slowest car all weekend? Really?

If he was that awesome in Germany 2012, he should be able to pole and win everywhere, no? Or is it because his car was not the slowest that weekend?

Alonso in 2012 might have been portrayed as doing miracles with a bad car, but the truth is he stayed in contention due to the relative reliability advantage he had. Nt also that

263

@ ANON

what about germany 2012 ? Who gifted alonso the pole and victory in the slowest car all weekend ?

Who gifted him the PP in tricky silver stone ?

Perez made a rookie mistake at Malaysia. How perez gifted the victory to alonso ? I still credit perez for his determination he chased down alonso and just was not patient enough to pounce on the opportunity

ALonso made 11 overtakes in 2012 valencia GP. How that can be gifted one ?

Who was not good enough in 2012 ? MR SEBASTIAN VETTEL. Examples : Malaysia, Germany, Italy, Silver stone 2012. Who do not deserve the WDC in 2012 ? VETTEL

Could you please explain me how a reliable car alone can win the WDC with no real pace ? Have you watched the opening 7 races and final 6 races of 2012 season? I suggest you to watch the 2012 season thoroughly once again.

264

I'm very Glas someone else Sees Alonso 2012 that way. Just goss to show how powerful the media really is.

265

Also, Alonso could only overtake Hulkenberg with DRS. Kimi took longer to get pass but used real skills and starting catching Alonso really quickly but the race ended to quickly.

Anyways, great race by Grosjean, Vettel and even Guitierez (might have spelt it wrong)

266

@ Greg H

DRS is there to make overtaking moves easier and possible.

@ Harshad

I cannot understand what is great with kimi's race ? He was well and truly beaten by Grosjean. Lotus were quicker than Ferrari all weekend yet alonso finished P4 whereas kimi could only manage P5. This clearly reflects who drove a great race

Could you please let us know whom you are trying to kid ? Harshad ?

267

If you put Kimi out on track for a race distance, and then put out Alonso for a race distance (in the same conditions of course), I imagine it'd be Kimi who'd come out on top. Whether you think Kimi's a bit better or Alonso's a bit better, the Lotus was the better car this weekend.

But, in an actual race all kinds of other influences come into play. If Alonso happens to come right up behind someone going into the DRS zone to drive straight past him, and then Kimi behind gets stuck behind that car going through the esses and all the other high speed, difficult to overtake bits of the circuit... he might not look to be doing as good a job in positions and gaps and whatnot, but it doesn't necessarily mean Kimi's not driving as well as Alonso.

Not saying Grosjean's race wasn't good... he did a fantastic job. But he was basically running out in clean air for most of the race, so it's a different situation to what Kimi had to deal with. Of course, Grosjean's great quali and fantastic race start are what put him in that position.

268

Alonso made a comparison between Massa and Kimi, so I commented accordingly.

Also, in this season,

Kimi===177 points

GRO===87 points

Massa===90 points

That's your answer who has been better driver of the three.

269

Ouch, must be we were observing some different events ?

270

All is subjective 😀

271

I dont understand why people discount Alonso so much.What if he overtook only at the DRS?

If you look at it that way,Alonso did way better than his teammate as compared to Raikonnen.Also it looks like ,presently,the Lotus is better than Ferrari wrt the traction it gets.

The fact is both are amazing drivers in not so good cars.Hopefully Ferrari can change that next year.

272

It seems that Ferrari will be poor next year.

Alonso should get back to the McLaren to finish the job. He always wanted three titles as Senna, there he will get the third on same combination of chassis and powertrain as Senna had.

273

>"Also, Alonso could only overtake Hulkenberg with DRS. Kimi took longer to get pass"...

Which means that Raikkonen was unable to use his DRS to make the pass, does it not? Why use DRS to discredit Alonso when Raikkonen was unable to utilise it in the same fashion?

274

Fun fact: Lotus and Red Bull are the slowest cars in a straight line

275

Kimi is driving a Lotus. Where did his teammate finish? Obviously the Ferrari's pace is really poor. Instad of a caballino (horse) it looks like a donkey so you can't compare.

277

Yeah that was an amazing overtake by Kimi.

Intelligent drive.

278

Is this gonna be the first season with Vettel having more wins than poles? I guess he doesn't only win from P1 after all ...

279

Yes, today he won with the engine multi 21 and the 3 for Webber, and his first stint wil stay there like an example of his excellence. His start was one of the cleanest of the season. He really is becoming a legend.

280

His start was terrible and then (without assigning blame) he and Hamilton touched.

But yes, it was a good win.

281

Vettel himself said he had a poor start, plus he clipped Hamilton, not a clean start in anybody's book!

282

@MBH, I missed that, sorry dude, maybe I'm too serious about F1 lol.

283

@Mbh. No. One was not being "ironical".

I believe that requires an element of

humour.

284

@Mbh

I think you mean sarcastical... 😉

285

I was being ironical.;)

286

Webber having 10-11 seconds to Vettel in 2nd, after Vettel´s last stop... I cannot believe that Webber was told to pit.

Red Bull could have given F1 fans a great showdown to the end. Vettel on fresh tires and Mark on worn.

Mark deserved a shot at the win. Red Bull took it away from him.

I feel disgusted (and I am not a die hard Webber fan).

-

Probably Red Bull reasoned:

- pit Mark, make Vettel P1

- Mark will do everything to take P2 from Grosjean and we will have P1 and P2

Seeing Mark not eager to pass Grosjean seemed to me that he was wondering why to give Red Bull a 1-2.

When the back markers came and DRS worked him past Grosjean, he had no option to let the car take him to P2.

I find Red Bull the most unsporting team in the paddock!

287

If Mark pitted when he pitted the second time, no way the tires would have been fresh enough to fend off both VET and GRO, or even last to the end. If he pitted later than he pitted, he wouldn't have gotten in front of Gro. Hindsight, the strategy worked the best.

288

Excellent post JMV

you have made my day

Simply true and a balanced comment with reality

I share and agree your views

289

Ah-hahahahaha!

Good one.

290

So true and I thought Horner was squirming in the after race interview!

291

Today was the usual "let´s show mark his place in this team" exercise by Horner, Marko and Vettel.

Webber didn´t even try to pass Grosjean after the 3rd surprise pit stop. He was just following him.

Probably there was a lot of radioing going on between Mark and the team... trying to tell him how contractually he is bound to try his best.

In the end Mark passed Grosjean just for the folks back at the factor.. but not for Horner´s 1-2.

Malaysia 2013 I perfectly understand and appreciated because racing drivers are supposed to race.

Suzuka 2013 was about taking away the chance to fight victory away from your nr 2 driver.

292

Nonsense. While I would have liked to see webber trying to stay out, he would clearly have lost to Vettel still, and there was the danger of him running out if tyre life completely and losing 2nd as well.

As for deciding that Webber was choosing to not try and pass Grosjean...well, all I think of that is, "Sure..."

293

Were you watching timing? WEB clearly needed to pit. He's harder on tyres than VET (as reported elsewhere) and today couldn't pass GRO with his setup, otherwise it would have been on for young and old.

Credit where credit is due: VET and his engineer won the race. Class.

294

couldn't agree more with your logic JMV

295

That makes no sense, if Webber was half as good as he thinks he is he would have got past Grosjean as quickly as Vettel which would have put him in the clear to give it everything on fresh medium tyres and battle Vettel, even if it would have been for a lap or two. It was in his hands to get the win and he never stepped up to the occasion.

297

Did you even watch the race?

298

Webber would no way have been able to make those tyres last till the end. As Horner said, Mark was on a 3 stop because he is so hard on his tyres.

299

Webber said in an interview that he was surprised that RBR called him in for a 3 stop strategy. He felt that he could match he same lap targets as Seb. Interesting that the team made the call o tyre deg and not he driver.

300

That's just Webber. Always plays the underdog and conspiracy card cause he knows suckers on discussion boards will bite. He knows he would not have made it.

301

If someone was hard on tires it was Seb this time. He was smoldering his front ones on braking so many times in the race, hardly to note that Mark was doing the same to his tires. So just check the footage of the race before you go there on the wings of that theory as to who was hard on tires. Horner is a poor puppet while the doctor is making sure that no one gets equality at RBR team.

302

Vettel closed on Hamilton when he was almost passed him, proof is that he hit Lewis back tyre with his front wing ? If Perez,Gutierrez, Pic or any other of the second tier drivers did this they would at least get a 20 second penalty in the pits. Why Vettel gets away with it ?

303

Hamilton himself said it was racing incident, and not Vettel's fault.

If you look at vettel's onboard footage he was basically sandwiched between Hamilton and Grosjean and had nowhere to go.

304

Wrong. Vettel was dead straight, webber pushed Hamilton over. Racing incident. Simple.

305

Racing incident.

306

Vettel didn't get away with anything. Hamilton moved across Vettel under pressure from Webber on the left. Racing incident - move on...

307

Question - was there a good reason for Mark to do what he did? He seemed to be the reason for the incident?

308

the championship is over, nothing you say will give alonso more points, [mod]

309

why was the "[mod] modded??

310

I used to be a Mod. Then I was a Rocker.

Now I'm a: .......! LOL

(Sorry; that is such a groaner, not even

I shall finish the punch-line). 🙂

311

Because it's aggressive and rude and we don't allow it - Mod

312

I thought Mark pressed across on Lewis, who then made a slight move to the right as an instant reaction. Appeared to be the faintest of touches. I agree with Martin Brundles comment, that tyres should not puncture that easily. It's an area that I think Pirelli should focus on, or front wing rule revisions. A slightest of grazes changes the whole profile of the race:(

313

It's not Pirelli's fault. At those speeds with the speed of the wheels spinning just a slight point touching it will could do damage, and there isn't much for Pirelli to do.

I like that idea, to change the front wings to prevent it, but ultimately it will still happen, and only a fraction of punctures would be saved.

It is just an F1 thing that will always happen.

314

Because he didn't. Watch the race and listen to what the experts say, you can learn a lot from them! 🙂

315

No I don't see it that way at all.

I watched it again and again and Vettel had a car on either side of him and he continued straight because he had to. In fact he couldn't move without hitting either of the two cars on either side of him.

Race starts are very tricky and incidents are expected and driver culpability is very low.

316

Did you know that those cars are fitted with tz pedal that is called BRAKE ! For safety reasons. When you need to slow down or to stop. And there is another pedal as well that is called Accelerator and you may just lift it off a little bit and moderate the power ?

317

It all happens too quickly for them to react like that. Remember, drivers don't get the same view we do - they sit low down, where they can't see most of the front of the car.