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Sebastian Vettel wins Korean Grand Prix as tyres contribute to drama
Posted By: James Allen  |  06 Oct 2013   |  8:50 am GMT  |  501 comments

Sebastian Vettel won the Korean Grand Prix from pole position, beating Kimi Raikkonen and Romain Grosjean to the flag.

It was Vettel’s 34th win, his 8th of the season and the fifth win in six races. Like the same stage last year it is a strong run of form, which looks set to bring him the championship again. He now has 272 points to Fernando Alonso’s 195, while Kimi Raikkonen moved ahead of Lewis Hamilton for third in the championship.

It is likely Vettel will clinch in either India or Abu Dhabi, unless he wins and Alonso doesn’t finish in Japan.

“I’m loving what I’m doing at the moment,” said Vettel. “It was good to have the safety car come out the first time, we were a couple of corners away from the pit lane entry. Kimi and Romain were very competitive, they were a little better on their tyres.”

But this race could have got away from him, as the tyres were marginal and Lotus was shaping up to challenge him in the closing laps, using its better tyre life. The second safety car put paid to that, giving Vettel and easier run to the finish.

It was a day when tyres were again the talking point, after the spat between Fernando Alonso and Pirelli’s Paul Hembery yesterday. There was a spectacular failure for Sergio Perez, which brought out the first of two safety cars. The limitation was the right front tyre, which grained for most of the competitors. Mark Webber backed up Alonso’s criticisms of Pirelli with some strong words after the race.

The second safety car was deployed for Mark Webber’s car burning on the side of the track. There was a serious breach of process in Race Control, with a fire truck sent out by a local fire chief, before the safety car had been deployed. This is likely to lead to heavy sanction for the local organisers. Vettel did the right thing and brought the field down to a slower pace as they saw the amazing sight of a fire truck trundling down the road.

The outstanding driver of the day was Nico Hulkenberg, who held off Lewis Hamilton to finish fourth in the Sauber, having kept Alonso behind him for the whole race.

The race really came alive in the closing stages after the second safety car, with some fantastic racing between Hulkenberg, Hamilton and Alonso.

At the start, Vettel got away cleanly and untroubled, while Grosjean passed Hamilton for second place into Turn 3. There was chaos behind them there, with five abreast on the approach to the corner, including both Ferraris. Massa spun on the corner apex, almost clouting his team mate, while Hulkenberg grabbed fifth place ahead of the Spaniard. Rosberg held fourth.

Behind them there were some excellent starts for Ricciardo, the only man who started on the medium compound tyres and Maldonado who went from 18th to 9th.

Button damaged his front wing in the Turn 3 melee and had to pit on lap 5 for a new one. He also took on medium tyres and was soon the fastest man on the track, showing that the medium tyre was the best race tyre. Other drivers reacted to this, including Di Resta who pitted on lap 8 with the idea of getting ahead of Perez.

Hamilton and Alonso both pitted on lap 10. Lotus reacted to Hamilton’s early stop and pitted Grosjean. He came out just ahead of Hamilton and managed to hold him off as the medium tyres came up to temperature.

Webber led briefly before stopping on lap 13. Ricciardo on his medium tyres ran fourth on lap 13, at which point the top three cars were covered by just four seconds.

Alonso stayed behind Hulkenberg into the second stint, a far cry from the battle he wanted to have with the championship leader who was 18 seconds up the road.

The cooler temperatures meant that the right front tyres were graining and this made teams think in terms of stopping three times. Drivers needed to either look after the tyres or commit to three stops. Chunks of rubber could be seen coming off the tyres and there were marbles everywhere off line.

Grosjean in the Lotus held onto the leader Vettel in the second stint, with only four seconds the gap. The long wheelbase car is easier on its tyres and this was an important factor in Yeongam.

Ricciardo pitted on lap 18, well short of what teams had imagined possible on the medium tyre. This told the other teams that a three stop was the way to go. Ricciardo rejoined in 13th place.

In the second stint the top three, Vettel, Grosjean and Hamilton were separated by six seconds with Rosberg 13 seconds behind his team mate. Hulkenberg held Alonso behind him despite a severe tyre graining phase.

Raikkonen was a man on the move, another text book performance from the Finn after a disappointing qualifying session. He pitted on lap 26 trying an undercut and it got him in front of Hulkenberg, Grosjean and Alonso. Hamilton was losing plenty of time in this phase, staying out despite lapping three to four seconds per lap to the leaders. He pitted and retained his fourth place, as the gap to the cars behind was so large. Rosberg’s front wing failed when passing his team mate and that dropped him down to 8th.

The safety car came out on lap 32 following a right front tyre failure for Sergio Perez in the McLaren, who had done 21 laps on a set of mediums.

Raikkonen moved up to third place, while Red Bull pitted Webber for a third time due to a puncture. He went onto supersofts, as they didn’t have any more mediums.

At the restart on lap 36, Vettel had both Lotus cars behind him. Grosjean and Vettel on tyres of the same age. Sutil lost control of his car and smashed into Webber, damaging the oil radiator and the Red Bull caught fire. The response from the marshals was pathetic, leaving the car burning for a long time. This brought out the safety car.

Meanwhile Raikkonen had passed Grosjean for second place, so he lined up behind Vettel. Hulkenberg was fourth, Hamilton fifth, Alonso sixth and Button seventh.

The second safety car really helped Vettel; where he would have been marginal on the tyres for a final stint of 19 laps and Raikkonen would have challenged him for the win in the closing laps given Lotus’ better action on the tyres. With the safety car intervention it meant that he had only 14 racing laps to the end.

At the restart, Hamilton and Alonso battled, but Hamilton held the fifth place. Hamilton set about Hulkenberg for the fourth place he had lost due to staying out too long on the tyres earlier.

The German did a brilliant job to hold him behind, but on lap 48 Hamilton passed into Turn 1, Hulkenberg repassed him and then Alonso and Hamilton battled. The race came had come alive in the final stages.

Vettel set a new fastest lap of the race with two laps to go and got a telling off from his engineer.

Grosjean was frustrated to be held behind Raikkonen in the final stages as his tyres were fresher. It came about because he made a mistake which allowed Raikkonen to pass him.

1. Vettel Red Bull 1h43:13.701
2. Raikkonen Lotus + 4.200
3. Grosjean Lotus + 4.900
4. Hulkenberg Sauber + 24.100
5. Hamilton Mercedes + 25.200
6. Alonso Ferrari + 26.100
7. Rosberg Mercedes + 26.600
8. Button McLaren + 32.200
9. Massa Ferrari + 34.300
10. Perez McLaren + 35.100
11. Gutierrez Sauber + 35.900
12. Bottas Williams + 47.000
13. Maldonado Williams + 50.000
14. Pic Caterham + 1:03.500
15. van der Garde Caterham + 1:04.500
16. Bianchi Marussia + 1:07.900
17. Chilton Marussia + 1:12.900
18. Vergne Toro Rosso + 2 laps
19. Ricciardo Toro Rosso + 3 laps
20. Sutil Force India + 5 laps

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  1. Miha Bevc says:

    Wow, that was faster than a Red Bull pit stop!

  2. Lars J says:


    You can’t blame Vettel Newey and Red Bull for doing a good job. You probably should blame say Ferrari for not giving Alonso a car, that is fast enough. But still – it’s not racing, it’s simply boring to watch.

    No championship excitement this year, and the only thing that thrills part of the race is the midfield fight and tyres and collisions. Not good.

    Speaking of tyres, here’s a fact.
    Until Spain: Raikonnen one win, Vettel two wins, Alonso two wins. Then Red Bull owner Mateschitz claimed that tyres were destroying F1. Since then: 6 victories for Vettel, 2 Rosberg, 1 Hamilton, 0 Alonso & 0 Raikonnen.

    Then Alonso hits out at tyres, and Pirelli Hembery responds with saying, that they work well for Vettel !

    I’m not into conspiracy. I just think it’s sad.

  3. AdamB says:

    Really getting completely fed up of these stupid tyres.

    All you ever hear now is drivers been told to manage there tyres, to hit a pre-determined lap time, To not stress them in key corners & in many cases to not race.

    It seems like every driver & team on the grid has criticized Pirelli now at some point or another & its clear this year reading the various fan comments across the internet that the fans are unhappy with how things are.

    If things are the same in 2014 I’ll just stop watching as this is not the sort of ‘racing’ (if you can ever call it that) is not what i enjoy.

    Bring back a tyre war I say, Let each team pick whichever supplier they want & let them produce the best tyres there able to produce so we can see some proper racing with drivers pushing each other hard again!

  4. Basil says:

    Vettel praising Japan to the heavens while standing on the podium in Korea. Well done, mate, you are pure class.

  5. CYeo says:

    Hulkenberg, Hulkenberg, Hulkenberg.

    If he doesn’t get a top seat after today’s performance, something is very wrong with F1.

    The marshaling at this circuit is horrendous.

    Fire truck on track infront of racing cars, spraying the extinguisher on Webber’s car from the wrong side.

    Entertaining race, with all the battles up and down the grid.

    Rosberg setting off his personal fireworks show, and I thought only Singapore had one.

  6. Collin says:

    Lars: I think you have an interesting point that I think even the broadcasters and press are afraid to even insinuate.

    The beginning of the season was great…Q3 & watching mid pack battles is all thats keeping me watching. I may not even watch them live anymore

  7. veeru says:

    I think I won’t be watching f1 for the rest of the year.

    not to take away anything from redbull.

  8. Anne says:

    Hulkember really deserves to be in one of the top teams.

    Great race strategy by Lotus. Great race by Grosjean and Kimi.

    What´s going on with Mercedes? Ferrari is a joke. So are the tyres.

  9. Monza01 says:

    Lars, F1 is not just about who wins.

    Forget what happened at the front, the scrap we saw for 4th,5th and 6th places was amongst the best racing we’ve seen for years.

    Can there be any doubt that Hulkenberg was driver of the day ?

    An increase in the weight limit for 2014 is badly needed and then McLaren will surely replace Perez with Hulkenberg.

  10. Elie says:

    Very predictable Vettel & Red Bull win but who would have thought Sauber would be so strong. What incredible traction and speed Sauber showed- hope this means they are finding technical improvements for 2014 also .excellent drive by Hulkenberg. Very exciting race from 2nd place back. Who would have thought Ferrari would struggle on tyres more than those around them and being outpaced by their customer team !!

    At the end of the day the man you can always count in even if he qualis 10 comes through and delivers- I love Kimi Raikkonen- he’s a god send to this sport!

  11. Chris C says:

    Well done to RB who are a class of their own. Was also great to see the performance of the Lotus drivers and Hulkenberg. Sadly one more race where it was all about tyre management, this season is becoming quite spoiled because of the tyres. Can’t wait for 2014 that I hope will bring some true racing back in F1.

  12. Clear View says:

    Most exciting race of the season by far. Loved every moment, don’t really care Vettel won, he’s good at what he does and so are Red Bull so if I wanted to complain about it I’d have to complain to the other teams and not Seb and RBR.
    Looking forward to next weekend now

  13. Grant H says:

    Boring bring on 2014!

  14. goferet says:

    It’s unfortunate Korea gets a bad rap for it tends to have interesting races with wheel to wheel battles as it’s quite tricky to overtake.

    Yes, it was a fun race especially in the midfield that made it worthwhile getting up early.

    Impressive race from typhoon Vettel for even though he lost his time advantage with the deployment of the first safety car, the second safety car was karma as it kept him safe from the Lotus danger.

    For sure, Vettel is a world wonder for he appears to be the only driver that stats have nothing on so I don’t see why the lad can’t go on to clinch 10 titles.

    Also good job from Lotus, both drivers looked racey today and pulled of some clinical overtakes but for some reason Grosjean always finds himself finishing behind his teammate and usually thanks to team orders.

    Excellent battle behind the top 3 from the Hulk, Lewis and Alonso, they all displayed professionalism and respect which was a good advertisement to younger drivers.

    Golly, bad luck once again strikes Webber and worryingly it seems the same bad luck is finding it’s way to Ricciardo >>> maybe it’s a Aussie jinx.

    The other entertaining battle out there today was provided by Rosberg, Button, Massa, Perez, Guiterrez and Maldonado, great to see hungary drivers going all out for the few points.

    Now, regards the Pirellis, hopefully after the today’s goings-on this will be a wakeup call for the team to finally bring in tyres with which the drivers can race.

    Overall, it was a good race though the incident of when the fire truck came out ahead of the safety car was amusing.


    Isn’t it time Vettel’s engineer gave up on trying to talk him out of setting fastest times.

    He should know by now, Vettel does what Vettel wants.

  15. Die Scuderia says:

    Good race from Hulkenberg. He kinda reminded me of his races in A1 GP where he once had a superb season for Team Germany. Don’t know what to make of this race…honestly.


  16. Truth or Lies says:

    Race came alive after the second safety car, until then very processional and once again it was all about tyres.

    The end was exciting and Hulkenburg drove very well, great recovery from Raikkonen as well, and though even though I watched the entire race live, I guess Kimi gained from the second safety car.

    The marshalling however left a lot to be desired, an awful lot actually, complete shambles.

  17. Grant H says:

    Great job from the race organisers re the 23rd car, shame charlie wouldn’t let him finish, would love to have seen who would have won the battle “fire jeep vs max chilton”

  18. Kris says:

    Great in-race and post-race reporting as always… one small point, though.

    You say…
    At the restart, Hamilton and Alonso battled, but Hamilton held the fifth place. Hamilton set about Hulkenberg for the fourth place he had lost due to staying out too long on the tyres earlier.

    Didn’t Hamilton lose the place to Hulkenberg after the re-start? Wasn’t he ahead of him during the safety car period but lost out to Hulk on the second long straight?

    The Hulk-Hamilton fight was a joy to watch. Reminded me of Hamilton and Webber fighting over second and third a couple of years back. As I recall, the fight was over a similar number of laps, Webber got past Hamilton on one straight, only to be taken on the next, and then couldn’t get past the rest of the way. Was remarkably similar.

    I continue to watch the races, perhaps more out of habit than anything else, but I long for 2014 to roll round. Whether it’s tyres or RBR dominance, but really hoping there’s a shakeup in the order.

  19. Wilma the Great says:

    Hulkenberg DOTD for me. Did you hear the small talk on the radio while holding off Hamilton and Alonso?

    Rosbergs car was really jinxed, like a Do-not-overtake-Hamilton-breaking-device.

    BTW, James: “fourth win in five races”:
    It’s 4/4 and 5/6, isn’t it?

  20. Kris says:

    Despite the lack of real overtaking, lack of atmosphere and RBR dominance, I find the track fascinating. Was so interesting to watch gaps between certain drivers oscillate like that over a single lap. Hamilton going from two tenths behind Hulkeberg at some points on the track to 8 tenths on others really highlighted the tactical/setup aspect of the race weekend. Fast, dominant cars remain fast dominant cars, but fascinating to see what the smaller teams can do to get up there every now and again. Obviously helps when they have a driver like the Hulk. What a shame it is that he won’t be in the Ferrari or RBR next year. I really hope he ends up in the Lotus. What a sterling job they have done this year.

  21. Kris says:

    Tyres exploding are one thing… but surely a smarter move would have been to simply use the Softs and Hards?

    That being said, isn’t this what practice is for? To learn how the tyres, cars and tracks work (or don’t) together? Surely if you do your homework, learn that the super softs won’t last too long and base your race strategy around mediums… even if it means sacrificing in qualy.

    I always find it strange to hear people complaining about issues that they’ve had almost five hours of track time to get their head around.

  22. KRB says:

    Hope Korea is off the calendar next year. The highlight of the race for me was the one podium beauty holding the door open for the drivers as they were introduced. I’m deadly serious.

    Were Mercedes McLaren in disguise this race, or what? It’s a mistake to set the car up for S2 grip over S1 speed on this track. Then not pitting Hamilton when the tires were clearly gone. Then not ordering Rosberg to cede position immediately after his front wing had failed (“looks to have failed” ?!?! Do they not have the same camera angles we get?).

    Lastly, Grosjean’s moves as Kimi went past … that stuff has to be heavily sanctioned, as it’s very dangerous.

  23. Ealdfrith says:

    Now I would like to see anyone who criticised ALO for blaming Pirelli for the crap tires they are manufacturing apologize after seeing what happened to Sergio Perez, what Webber said and also Raikkonen.

  24. anon says:

    Masterful, flawless drive by Vettel.

    Same can be said for Hulkenberg. He kept ahead of a faster Ferrari for about 50 laps. Hamilton also in the fastest car was unable to complete a pass on Hulkenberg. They couldn’t out brake or out smart him.

    I guess this confirms that in terms of outright pace Hulkenberg > Alonso and Hamilton.

  25. C Lin says:

    Great race by Hulkenberg & Raikkonen.

    Never discount Raikkonen, P13 to P3 in Singapore & P9 to P2 in Korea. Cool.

  26. Random 79 says:

    Some great racing – especially from Hulk, very well done to hold off Lewis – but odds on that’s the last race we’ll see in Korea for a while.

  27. i think that it is past time for pirelli to take the hint and get the hell out of F1.

    what another farce this race turned out to be. i think webber summed it all up when he said that the trash tyres were responsible for his demise.

    did anyone take note of the massive carpet of marbles? beyond any joke now. after a lifetime of motorsport, since the mid fifties, i find this current trend to be possibly the last nail in the coffin. F1 is, quite simply, a joke.

  28. Paige says:

    I am really starting to come to the conclusion that Nico Hulkenberg is the most talented driver on the grid. Going back to his history, he had similar results to Hamilton and Vettel on the way up to F1… except he was even more dominant. (And in fact, noticeably so.) Sure, the Sauber has improved this year, but he has simply been absolutely mighty on his own with this terrible car through the balance of the year, and now that they have improved the car, he has beaten all but the two quickest cars in the race in two of the last three races (Red Bull and Ferrari in Monza, Red Bull and Lotus in Korea.), and while the Sauber had very good straight line speed and traction coming out of the first corner that helped him to hold off Hamilton and Alonso (two of the “Big Four”), the fact is that he drove the car to perfection in maximizing its advantages and minimizing its disadvantages. And when a driver does that, it comes 100% down to talent. What Hulkenberg did today was absolutely Senna-esque.

    I don’t give a damn how big and heavy he is. This is already a disadvantage for him this year, and look what he is doing. Clearly, he’s got the talent to make up for this disadvantage- and to more than make up for it, and by a significant margin. Lotus and McLaren have absolutely not one excuse in the whole damned world for not putting him in their car next year. Not one damned excuse. If one of them does not hire him for next year, they don’t deserve to be in Formula 1 anymore. I can understand Ferrari wanting Kimi with more experience to help develop a new engine for next year. Lotus and McLaren, though, have no excuses.

    When Hulkenberg gets a winning car, it’s all for the rest of them. He will make what Vettel has done look flatly ordinary.

  29. PeterGH says:

    The truth of it is that these super fragile tyres have made this year a farce.

    Even putting aside the number of sudden and dangerous failures, that tyre degradation is the main story at pretty much every race is boring. Far from making the racing more exciting, we now have a sport where words of encouragement are “look after the tyres”.

    And before I get the invetiable reply that “tyre management has always been a part of the game” – true, but its never been 90% of it.

    It’s getting pretty boring now, I’m all for tyre compounds that open up a range of strategic options, but the current situation is pathetic.

    I’ve been an avid F1 fan since the 70s & can never remember a time when the tyres were the biggest story & main talking point of pretty much every race weekend as they have been this year.

    Pirelli need to scale things back for 2014 & if they can’t do that then someone else should be brought in to replace them.

  30. Sujith says:

    I guess Lotus worked on Kimi’s setup to give him better straight line speed because he needed that starting quite far back. Maybe that was the reason why Sebastian managed to be quicker on the middle sector of the lap to pull away very comfortably from him after the final restart.

    Shame for Grosjean to have made a mistake later on which is certainly inviting trouble with Kimi close behind.

    Kudos to Sebastian yet again. We must not forget that. I enjoyed the race.

    Hulkenberg is more likely to get the Lotus drive, but James, do you think he might have a chance at Perez’s seat next year at McLaren?

    As most of the guys said here, if he does not get a competitive drive next year, something is really wrong with F1. Superb racing against Lewis. Knew the strengths of the car (traction) and used it to mount a great defense and was thinking 1 corner ahead and planning his moves accordingly.

    I gather RB did not go with Kimi because they were looking at the long run.. but if I was running the team I would have put Hulk in that seat.

  31. Sebee says:

    First a Tesla burns to the ground.
    Then Webbers KERS.

    Green energy sure likes red flames. I didn’t know electric power was so combustible.

  32. Thompson says:

    Have to agree Hulkingburg drove a great race.

    Vettels car was in a class of its own even on old tires. Pity Mark got stuck behind a very competitive bunch, would have been fascinating to see what he could have done had he been behind Seb after the 2nd SC – Good race. Being no threat after his pe. lty his car would have been good this weekend ;-)

  33. zx6dude says:

    We really had two races: SV and the rest of the field. That is a shame as I would like to see much closer racing at the top.
    SV was on a class of is own, he handled a difficult race particularly well. I think he handled the safety cars and the fire marshal’s truck really well.
    Did he get a telling off? I only heard the racing engineer asking him to be careful. is this a telling off?
    I don’t particularly like SV but he is on a class of his own – obviously having a good car is essential but this is not all down to the car, he is a really fast driver. If only I could get myself to like him… multi 21, arrogance… nah, I just can’t do it.

    NH was amazing, kept his head and kept two world champions behind him that were driving faster cars. Well done Nico! I hope Nico gets a drive on a decent car, he deserves it.

    The Sky team keeps going on about Paul Di Resta which something I don’t understand, he has been far from outstanding this season.

    Keeping my fingers crossed that next year’s changes will bring the field closer, I hope that one team doesn’t run away with it.

  34. greg says:

    Kimi couldn’t much after he took 2nd place so I guess that’s why Hulkenberg becomes the drove of the day. To be honest, after his performance last race, Kimi’s result today wasn’t surprising.
    The Iceman and The Hulk are the RACERS of the day and Vettel was the DRIVER of the day.

  35. JohnBt says:

    Safety car saved the race to a certain extend, else it would’ve been real boring.

    Last 15 laps had some good fighting moments from two groups scrapping for positions.

    Mark’s fire was dramatic though. Vettel didn’t run away and Ferarri was awful I thought.

    Congrats to Kimi from 10th to 2nd and message to Romain was interesting, that was good as he had to chase down Kimi, not an easy task.

    Hulk will be DOTD and gets my vote for holding the big boys at bay.

  36. TGS says:

    Anybody know what Webber said post race regarding the tires?

  37. Alessandro Ciambella says:


    Long time reader, first time poster.

    I don’t want to summon the usual tin hat brigade but, do you knowledgable people of F1 think its feasible that red bull are manipulating cold air and blowing this into their diffusers as opposed to the banned hot air?

    I could bore you with the science of it, but assume that you guys will know what I am talking about. Red Bull are the masters of pushing the limits of rules and regulations and I believe this could be why they cope with the max traction out of all corners so well.

    Your opinions on this would be appreciated. I’m not afraid to be proven wrong and feel that I have a duty to this dying sport to find out how red bull are crushing the opposition souls!

  38. David (Sydney) says:

    WHy do people lay dirt on the South Korean circuit. It’s been good so far. Drop Singapore, I say. I loathe Singapore.

    Great race. Lots of fun. Esp. the Keystone Marshalls.

    Vettel is a cut above at the moment; who would have thought we’d have a new dominating driver so soon after Schumi?


  39. Rishi says:

    Don’t get me wrong, Kimi Raikkonen is a supremely talented driver and, ultimately, it was his intelligent opportunism and a brilliant overtake that got him past Romain Grosjean into 2nd place after Romain apparently made a small mistake a couple of corners earlier.

    But I also think he has been pretty lucky in the last two races relative to Romain. On both occasions he has qualified well behind his team-mate but benefited hugely from having a Safety Car at just the right moment in the middle of the race (in addition to a mechanical failure for Grosjean in Singapore). This is particularly so with the current rules in place about lapped cars being allowed to unlap themselves.

    Yes I know all the arguments about Kimi’s bad back (I did vote him DotD at Singapore for his podium in such circumstances), or how unlucky he himself was earlier on in his career (all those engine failures in the McLaren!), or how ‘it’s the same for everybody’. However, I’m just a little frustrated that it’s happened more than once that Romain has got clear of Kimi in recent races (either because of qualifying or because of initial strategy, as at the Nurburgring), yet the Finn has benefited from a “get out of jail” card in the form of a Safety Car. Contrastingly, whenever Grosjean has ceded ground to Kimi early on the race has always taken a natural cause and he’s ended up several seconds behind Raikkonen even when both have raced well (e.g. Bahrain).

    Overall I was pleased with Grosjean’s race today and, being keen to see him do well, am mostly happy with the podium and hope he continues this rate of improvement after that confidence crisis. Kudos too to Kimi; he may have had fortune (with the SC and also with Nico Rosberg’s freak front-wing failure) but he also made his own with the early second pitstop and with the overtake. But I did feel a tinge of frustration that it wasn’t Grosjean taking the second step on the podium after being so far in front of Raikkonen pre-Safety Car.

  40. Paul L says:

    Rather than 2012-spec, Pirelli should have defaulted to 1986 construction. The tyres Berger won with seemed both safe and durable.

  41. Rob Newman says:

    That was a very good race. Hulk was fantastic. He made both Alonso and Hamilton look like amateurs. He knew exactly what he was doing and what needed to be done.

    Hamilton claims to be a great late breaker but Grosjean showed him there are other people who can do a better job.

    I can’t understand why Webber wanted to have a go at Pirelli. Perez braked hard, flat spotted his tyre and then it went to pieces. If it was not for his taxi drive last week, he wouldn’t have been in this position.

  42. graham says:

    Dear Mr Webber,
    Just HOW many ladders have you walked under, and how many black cats have you seen………..?
    I cannot believe a bloke could have SO MUCH bad luck. To start 13th (unlucky number), for the safety car to come out JUST after you pitted, for Perez’s tyre to explode right in front of YOU, causing a puncture, and then for the wayward Sutil to spin into YOUR car, which may have continued had it not broken an oil line……..mate, you seriously need to carry a horseshoe, or a rabbits foot or something!
    Your sincerely,
    Your long suffering Aussie fan,

  43. SEENAQLD says:

    driver of the day,the safty car,fire truck had tyre probs again

  44. TJ says:

    Webber has to be one of the unluckiest dudes going round. Gets a harsh penalty in Singapore that compromises this race before it even begins. Makes his way through the field to be running 4th after 2nd stop only to immediate pick up a puncture from the debris from perez’s exploding tyre. Then taken out by sutil and bursting into flames, which may cost him in future races if they have to use an additional engine due to this one being destroyed by fire. And unfortunately for Ricciardo some of the bad luck seems to have rubbed off on him this race with a mechanical failure only 2 laps from home after working his way into a points scoring position and maintaining position even on super softs that had been running for 20 laps. Was a frustrating race to watch as an Aussie fan.

  45. AJ says:

    For sure (seems to be the saying in F1 circles), I’m loosing interest.

    God I hope the spec changes next year mix thing up a bit.

    Tyres this, tyres that, graining, failing right fronts, punctures, flat spots,…. the best drivers in the world driving a tyre management event.

    No wonder Webber’s off to try something different.

    What are the F1 viewer stats these days, surely others are loosing interest like me?

    Great drive Hulkenburg.

    Kimi is great at the long game, if only he could qualify more strongly.

  46. John T says:

    Congratulations to Vettel. Good drive. Kimi showed his class with the second safety car restart. Shame the car isn’t quite there. Credit to Vettel/Newey and RB.
    I’m trying to figure out if that radio message to Grosjean was a hurry up or a middle finger salute to Kimi. If the latter it was pretty petty.

  47. KARTRACE says:

    I knew that Hembery will blame yet again someone else again. Blame North Korea, blame Extraterrestrials, blame Alonso, blame whoever. Now it is turn to Sergio’s lock up to blame, for the blow out ? The fact that so many drivers were locking up wasn’t concern for Pirelli and Paul who conveniently has overlooked that “detail”? They were locking up cause tires were degrading so quickly, thus there was no grip while braking. Hellooo Pirelli !!!

  48. Alexander Supertramp says:

    Red Bull again show Ferrari and Mercedes how it’s done. Lotus was strong today, but they have also been very inconsistent through the year.

    Lewis had clearly set up his car for the 2nd sector, he was too slow in S1. He should have compromised a little, he had a lot in the bag in S2 but he could not use it often. Not a great race from him, but not a bad one either.

    I was very impressed by the Hulk. Not just because he finished 4, his car was capable of doing it with amazing traction out of corner 2. I was impressed because he did it, he had a fight with the big boys and he held it. That’s because he’s a top act himself, with great racing instincts. This race was a nice test for his mental abilities, and he passed the test with greatness. Give the man a competitive car!

    Mclaren would lose a lot of credibility by retaining the services of S. Perez. He’s definitely for a top drive, he still muscles his way around like a deranged bull. Hulkenberg showed him the way today: Champions/top drivers go wheel to wheel without contact, with great racing instinct. Get him out of the car!

    Can’t believe the season is yet again almost over. I want 2014 to bring more competition in the field, but the wait between seasons is so long, I can’t believe some of you guys want to wrap up the season :D.

  49. Valentino from montreal says:

    Either ,

    A) Vettel is so good that he’s flattering the RB9
    B) Vettel is a decent driver in a killer machine


    C) Webber is driving the RB9 to it’s full potential
    D) Webber is waisting the RB9 this season

    My point is how can 1 driver like Vettel win and win and the other driver do ABSOLUTELY SQUAT with the other car ?

    Jesus Murphy, in the Ferrari-Schumacher era , The Ferraris were designed to Schumacher’s strengths yet Rubens Barrichello was still able to win races and he was a regular podium finisher , and sometimes he was faster than Schumacher too … But Webber to Vettel ? You cannot even compare !

    Vettel has 8 wins in the RB9
    Webber has ZERO in the RB9

  50. ffcunha says:

    What put Kimi in place for a podium was is early second pit stop undercutting Alonso and Hulk. Also the situation with Rosberg front wing delaying Hamilton pit stop. But he also have a lower degradation than Hamilton, so , maybe he could beat Hamilton anyway.

    As for the tyres, IMO Pirelli is doing a good job. I remember the bridgestone times and i don´t miss them. Teams need to be realistic about the tyres and undestand that they weren´t made to last very long stints, specially in colder conditions.

  51. Irish con says:

    Would love to know James thoughts on Lewis saying him and Fernando are too good to be battling for 5th and that Fernando is the strongest driver out there. Is this a dig at seb or is he serious I wonder.

  52. Jolgas says:

    Watched the start, recorded and watched last few laps. Last race am watching this season. Oh so boring.

  53. Vettal and Safeti Car is ruining these so called “races”. Remind me of Zee Zuumacher era “racing”. I guess I gotta stop watching this circus.

  54. rudyBB says:

    Fantastic race!!! This is the wonderful F1 that we deserve. Thanks to Bernie, Charly, journalists, Marko, … many many thanks.
    The Jeep and the exploding wheel show has been great!!!
    Watching the battel of 4th place was fantastic while we listening to the typical radio communication of the RedBull’s engineer with some super inportant coment for the result of the race!! ooooou yeah!

  55. Tealeaf says:

    Brundle: Wait whats that doing on the track???
    Crofty: Thats not rhe safety car!!!

    Hahahahahaha I was in stitches.

  56. Chestikoph says:

    As per definition Wikipedea.
    A sport race is a competition of speed, against an objective criterion, usually a clock or to a specific point. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the SHORTEST amount of time.

    Not nursing the tyres and vehicle just to finish.
    Unless f1 changes next year, I won’t watching!!

  57. Heinz says:

    James, what is your view of a rule change: no pitting under the safety car.
    Currently it gifts a free tyre change to all, and does not necessarily penalise anyone not even the leader, and esp not if his name starts with V. Should we go back to no pitting? I would value your view.

  58. Dmitry says:

    Oh, man, how much so I want Pirelli to be gone from F1….

    Excitement? No way, F1 is artificially made boring with predictable unpredictably unstable tyres. Flat spot? When did the flat spot caused the tyre to blow?

    Congrats to Vettel, hope next season is going to be a lot different.

  59. Robert N says:

    On Saturday, the Lotus were one of the slowest cars in the speed trap. How come they could pull off several overtakes today? Did they still keep a long 7th gear, which together with DRS was enough to overtake on the straights?

  60. CYeo says:

    On another note, Bianchi and Pic are facing a 10 spot grid penalty for Japan.

    Where are they going to start? In the Yeongam (Korea) circuit while everyone else is in Suzaka?

  61. Simmo says:

    That Red Bull win was certainly boring, but the 4th place battle…!!

    What a race. Best this season – and people say Korea is boring!

    Firstly, I’ll start with Massa. Very desperate manoeuvre into turn 3, nearly wiping out 3 people plus himself. Several damaged front wings caused by the avoiding action. That said, he did manage to pitch it into a spin (although whether that was intentional or not is another matter) rather than clumsying into the side of everyone. Massa, however, had a reasonable race after that.

    Sutil on the other hand, a similar accident, but worse. I feel sorry for Webber, his race wasn’t so bad until that.

    Perez shouldn’t have got away with pushing several cars off, plus the accident with Massa was just stupid. It’s a shame the stewards have let him get away with it AGAIN! Although that tyre failure was almighty scary! I feel sorry for Webber who had just pitted and got a puncture. Pirelli (and whoever else) can blame the lock up all they want, but it doesn’t change the fact that it was their fault again. The tyre should resist that sort of thing.

    The Lotus battle was exciting, but a shame that they couldn’t fight Vettel. Well done to both of them.

    But what a battle at the end!! And Hulkenberg! A true top driver!!! Get him signed to be in that Lotus immediately! Lotus would be foolish not to.

    Very ironic how the 4 back-markers all got the same penalty (a reprimand), the leading two from each team for the same reason, the losing two for the same reason – and the leading two both getting a 10 place for three reprimands! Certainly odd! And the stewards love these reprimands lately. Suddenly the number of drivers to receive three has doubled!!!!

  62. If the future of the Korean GP was uncertain before the race, the fire truck incident may have seal the fate of this circuit, don’t you think James?

    Also, spectator numbers look much lower than last year.

    Surely, we’re back to a 21-race calendar for 2014.

  63. Richard says:

    Stayed in my bed, because I could already tell this was going to happen back in 1997.

  64. Sarvar Dustov says:

    When Red Bull owner said if Seb/Mark pushed the car to the limit they ‘d have done 10 stops in the race and almost everyone was saying he is insane. Now when we are witnessing their supremacy with more durable tires he turns out to be right, ironically.

  65. yst_01 says:

    I don’t think Hamilton is one of the top 3 drivers in forumula one right now. He is always having a big mouth about how good Alonso is and that he thinks makes him a great driver too, because of one year back in 2007.

    But he fails to deliver. He blows his chances for the title regulary as in Monza 2010 or in Monza 2013.

    Yesterday he said, he is having a score to settle with Vettel because of 2011 and he will attack the pole setter. After turn 3 he lost a position…

    In the end he fell back from P2 to P5 and he was very lucky due to the SC and because of Rosberg’s bad luck (once again..)

    He might be very quick over one single lap, but that doesn’t make you a great, intelligent driver, which is necessary to win more than one title, especially when the competition is getting bigger and bigger over the last couple of years.

  66. D Vega says:

    More evidence that Ferrari is playing darts while wearing a blindfold. This seals it; Alonso to Mclaren. However, he will not want to race against JB, hence, Massa will partner with Alonso again. JB will join Kimi, who will win the WDC in the 2014 Byrne Ferrari. Alonso will then spontaneously combust.

  67. Michael S says:

    Getting very tired of Alonso and Hamilton always crying about their situation. Yes, they do not have a Red Bull. Having the fastest car is not a God given gift that he and Alonso were born with… Not to mention it takes away from what Vettel does as well. Kimi was able to pass Alonso today on the exact same wear on their tires, he also passed Ricardo and Grosjean. I think the Merc is clearly faster than the Sauber so it is on Hamilton and Alonso to get by and not just complain after the race that they deserve to be further up the road.

  68. Jeffrey says:

    Despite the drama behind him, there’s no other word for Vettel’s unchallenged start to finish win, yet again, than boring. His index finger is a middle finger to the sport, or rather, the former sport.

  69. Glennb says:

    “There was a serious breach of process in Race Control, with a fire truck sent out by a local fire chief, before the safety car had been deployed. This is likely to lead to heavy sanction for the local organisers.”

    I believe the fire truck is to receive a 10 place penalty in Japan.
    Just thought I’d clear that up ;)

  70. John S says:

    Red Bull were still doing well before the tires changed, and the tires were changed on safety grounds. There was plenty of opposition to getting them changed from Ferrari and Force India.

    Every driver agrees they can’t push 100%, especially Mark Webber.

    If the tires helped Red Bull that much you would see Webber being able to drive the car the way he wants and get results.

    There will be a never ending list of excuses from the Vettel haters.

    What happens if he joins Ferrari later, teams up with Alonso and makes him look like post accident Massa.

    I can hear it now:

    “Alonso is too old now, the comparison is no longer valid”

  71. tifosi says:

    This has to stop.

    We the devoted formula 1 fans have been such for a reason…

    Now with so many handicaps this is only marginally better than Nascar, if at all.

    No wonder Schumi re-retired, and Webber is on the way out… These old warriors were the true “petrol heads”,… now its just ridiculous…

    Come Paul H.. grow a couple and stand up to whoever is demanding these tires.

  72. Glennb says:

    Best race of the year so far for me. Lots of overtaking, lots of good, solid performances throughout the field. Everyone struggling with grip and Seb setting fastest laps. Hulk drove an inspiring race and so did Rosberg. Rosberg finished 1.4 secs behind Hamilton after having the slowest nose change in history. And what about Mark Webber? He showed today what a great team player he really is. He allowed Sutil to crash into him to bring out a safety car so his team mate could change tyres again. Absolutely selfless. And what about the firetruck? You don’t see that everyday. Absolutely useless. I was having flashbacks of Gerhard Berger.
    I only just noticed that Perez scored a point, even after the tyre snafu. Bizarre race indeed.
    Exploding tyre, broken front wing, tyres graining, car on fire. Other than Vettel winning again, what was the boring part that I seemed to have missed?

  73. Lewis says:

    The first race Vettel’s won this year that hasn’t been dull!

    Hulkenburg is outstanding, would love for him to get a seat at either Lotus or McLaren next season.

  74. fox says:

    Seems Ferrari stopped development of 2013 car right before the Summer break. It is flawed design 100%. Tombasis produced weird car in Toyota’s tunnel.
    If Ferrari wasn’t such attractive to drivers, then we would have more multi-champions. Otherwise they [champs] earn money but lose years there.

  75. anthony says:

    yesyesyes all very exciting, someone should tell Pirelli’s Paul Hembery to watch the race for a change as he shrugged off webbers moaning ‘im not really sure what his problem was i think he was behind and saw something’
    yes he bloody saw a tyre and debris coming at him at 150mph.
    when are they guna sort the tyres out so we can just get racing and no one is killed. believe me someone will get killed because of these tyres very soon, its just pure luck it hasnt happened yet.

  76. Jaspar says:

    Remember when Red Bull owner Mateschitz claimed that tyres were destroying F1. Correction, Red Bull are destroying F1 with their manipulation of Pirelli & whoever will listen. To have the tyres changed mid-season was a complete joke, it’s had the exact effect everyone feared. And shame on Brundle for telling people who paid £200 plus to attend a race not to boo, he paid nothing to attend & doesn’t want people to express themselves, booing is maybe not correct but it’s the paying public’s right to express themselves. I hope Red Bull & Vettel are happy with their worthless fourth titles. I’ve had enough, I’m not watching F1 anymore…

  77. Pete says:

    Just trying to think…are there any other sports where kit randomly fails? Maybe football, they should make the players’ shoes occasionally disintegrate. Or rugby and basketball, they could make balls that occasionally puncture.

    Seriously – where else would this be acceptable?

  78. Enjoyable race with some great battles.

    Could someone enlighten me as to why in Singapore SV was at time 10-20secs ahead of the field yet here in Korea he only managed to get a consistent 5 second gap. Was it his team reacting to the TC accusations or that the Lotus performed better on this track?.

  79. Robert N says:

    Do we know what caused Rosberg’s nose cone to break? Is that a design fault, or bad assembly (human error).

    His nose coming off reminded me of Alonso’s front wing failure in Malaysia. I guess one could argue that both were caused by a sudden increase in front downforce.

  80. Bayan says:

    I keep on reading articles (not this one) that Hamilton doesn’t want to dominate completely (like Vettel or Schumi) or he feels sorry for the fans as this is similar to the Schumi era. I was really starting to be a fan of Hamilton but these comments make me change my mind. I’m absolutely sure that he would not feel sorry for the fans, would not slow down to make the race interesting, would knot give up pole to make the race interesting for the fans, would not feel bad about celebrating the wins that would come with whatever he does (he might use Sebs finger celebration, who knows), etc., if he had a car as dominant as the RBs have been and was able to consistently beat his teammate. Do you think he just being a big baby or is the media just making him look bad?

  81. Chris says:

    I have one question for all you Vettel doubters, why do you continually doubt him? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, he has won well over 1 in 4 races (29% to be exact, and he’s lost a lot of races from winning positions, it could easily be 1 in 3), he will probably win 4 championships out of the 6 he has competed, won for Torro Rosso from pole, and never joined a team that could boast a race win or pole position. I know Alonso is an equally amazing driver, as in my view is Hamilton, but you can’t denny Vettel his dues, but plenty do!!

  82. Aaron Rattan says:

    Hi James,
    I am a long time reader of this site and I am continually impressed by the quality and how in depth the content is.
    I would be keen to get your thoughts on Lewis Hamilton’s latest comments. It seems to me that he is a ticking time bomb with regards to PR mess ups. By saying that F1 is now a snooze fest due to Vettel’s dominance, its only coming across that Hamilton is very bitter about the success Vettel is achieving. And I am not a Hamilton hater, in fact, I love watching the guy race as he reminds me at times of how on the edge Senna was at times, but he really needs to stop moaning and get on with it. RedBull and Vettel have done a fantastic job and surely its now time to start asking questions of the other teams in F1 as to why they don’t seem to be making any headway in catching the RedBulls?

    Once again, your site is excellent.


  83. Oletros says:

    Before changing the tyres, VET 4 wins, after changing the tyres, VET 4 wins and in the second part of the season VET has always been better than in the first part

  84. Grant H says:

    Like I said this race should be called bore-ea, i hope its not on next years calender

    If it were not for the safety cars there would not have been any racing, you cant overtake other than DRS if your cars set up for top speed

    Pirelli oh no not again, if a driver locks up the tyre should not fail, it does not matter if the driver abuses they should be designed to survive, that was potentially dangerous

    Merc and ham should have pitted earlier at end of second why the let him lose 15+ seconds, without the safety car it was a 3 stop for lewis,

    Think merc also went a bit wrong with set up – at the start and after safety cars Lewis did not seem to have enough top speed down the straight as lost positions.

    Well done to hulk great driving man of the day held lewis and alonso off fantastically

  85. Equin0x says:

    Change the record will you, your stats there are wrong, Vettel won 4 races before the tyres were changed and has won 4 races since. Also Vettel was leading the championship before the tyres were changed and yes you guessed it he still leads the championship, the tyres were changed for safety reasons, these hatred and discredit for Vettel is tiresome, quite pathetic actually, as goes for bad luck it goes all to Rosberg, saved his tyres then as soon as he passed the slow Hamilton the front nose cone broke, if without all the suspicious technical problems and team orders like Malaysia Nico would be leading Hamilton, whats going on at Mercedes is a farce, all they do is try to keep Hamilton happy yet all he does is speak to the team in a disrespecting tone of voice and also swearing, moan about the tyre well look after it like Nico did then, use his brain and he would know his overall stints actually suck, can’t even overtake a Sauber!?!

  86. Snailtrail says:

    ‘You can’t blame Vettel Newey and Red Bull for doing a good job…’ – actually you can blame Red Bull with the borefest that F1 is now. With a budget way larger than any other team – somewhere around $344 – $296 million – with McLaren and Ferrari around $240 million each RB are making good use of a limitless budget. Imagine how much performance an extra $60-$100 million would get other teams! – and Horner complains that booing is unsporting…

    Toyota show big budgets don’t guarantee success – but it is an ingredient and an unfair advantage – Vettel and Newey are two people making very good use of it.

    As one of the team principles said in a podcast on this site – without cost restrictions the teams may as well compare bank accounts at the beginning of the year forget the racing.

    Interesting article: http://www.hindustantimes.com/motor-sports/topstories/The-bonkers-business-logic-of-Formula-1-teams/SP-Article1-968466.aspx

  87. Sebee says:

    I think you will enjoy knowing that Lewis thinks Alonso and he deserve better. He thinks it’s just not fair or right for RAI, GRO, HUL to be in front of him and Alonso.


  88. Vic Weir says:

    I thought that Ferrari, including Alonso & Massa, plus Lotus were happy enough with the Pirelli tyres at the beginning of the season.
    However, they didn’t suit RBR and others so they were changed. Fernando has commented on this as being one reason for the downward slide in the cempetetiveness of the Ferrari for some time now.

    RBR now happy bunnies and therefore Hembury too, although after today’s race he might not be quite so complacent: “…chunks of rubber….coming off the tyres….marbles everywhere…a spectacular failure for Perez….Mark Webber backed up Alonso’s criticisms of the tyres…” (James Allen).

  89. Sugar Water says:

    Interesting results since “tire-gate”. Not at all surprising mind you. It’s made for a sad season due to very poor F1 administration, political meddling at the highest levels, “influence and arm twisting by those with deep $$ pockets”, and shockingly poor technology which has endangered life and limb….

  90. MISTER says:

    I am already looking for getting tickets for LeMans 24H instead of F1. I’m sick of the tyre management to this extent.
    Bye bye F1!

  91. aezy_doc says:

    The race for first place is not the be all and end all of an F1 race. There were some good battles today and the incidents in and around the safety car incidents were exciting. Not sure what you were watching, but I enjoyed it.

  92. Sasidharan says:

    Loved those first two words. I am going on a long drive next week instead of wasting 3 hours with the TV.

  93. Rudy says:

    Totally agree with you. Michelin’s conditionals to enter the sport were they would NeVER produce a tyre that lasted just a few laps. Then their push to an 18″ wheel rim diameter for 2015. This leads one to conclude: the real and only RESPONSIBLE for this fiasco-season is the FIA itself, helped in the backstage by Ecclestone. Hell! We don’t want ever-lasting tyres and get back to Shumi-era, but these tyres are a laugh. Guys, it’s a relief Pirelli doesn’t make condoms!

  94. Chris C says:

    Hahaha, I was thinking the same, the racing drivers need to get a bit of history lesson for each country they visit

  95. bearforce says:

    Fire Truck……

  96. Dave C says:

    So what??? You talk about class? Have you heard how much lack of disrespect Hamilton has when he talks to his team? Yet they bend over backwards to support him instead of Nico! I wonder how the standings would look if Hamilton has had Nico’s technical issues and team orders this year. Always taking digs at Vettel for what? Being the best driver?

  97. Tealeaf says:

    Actually yes Vettwl’s drives are pure class, something a certain driver starting from 2nd on the grid lacked, Hamilton’s gone down in my estimations just goes backwards and asking the team on suggestions about overtaking a much slower car? Actually I’d bet Hulkenberg would smash Hamilton if he was at Mercedes, even Rosberg would be ahead if its not for suspect issues to the car, Alonso top driver? Pfft whats clear is that now Alonso and Hamilton are the 2 most overrated driver in F1, they’re good but not great.

  98. bearforce says:

    Ummm, don’t they always talk about the upcoming round. I think it is the usually done thing.

    I mean if Japan was five races away it might (and I mean may just possibly be incorrectly considered by overly sensitive people to be a slight) be considered by some to be impolite.

  99. MrF1 says:

    Was definitely quite rude to the hosting country. I agree with him but you don’t say it out loud standing on the podium in Korea

  100. Yan S says:

    Yea that was quite a big mistake when he said Suzuka is in his opinion the best on the podium of Korean GP … oopses!
    it was like saying the US GP is better than Canadians

  101. justafan says:

    He was talking about the track and the fans. And he was correct.

  102. Yak says:

    I was kinda thinking it seemed a bit awkward saying that in Korea, but to be fair… he was asked the question. What should we expect him to say? “Uhh… yeah, I suppose it’s ok,” while nervously loosening his collar?

  103. KRB says:

    Germany was a change in tire, so make it 3 wins on the original tires, 1 on the interim tire used in Germany, and then 4 on the new tires.

  104. xyler says:

    Good observation. The same I also thought some weeks ago.
    Why are so many people moaning? This is often that one team/person is dominating in his area. Think about Carl Lewis, Usain Bolt, Ingemar Stenmark, Herman Maier and so on. And the given examples did all had only their “body” for winning. What would moaning people propoe here? Bolt must run with plumb that the others have a chance?
    I would propose, that the others do better work.

  105. Chris M says:

    Before changing the tyres Vettel won 38% of the races. After they were changed he’s won 83% of the races and the last four in a row.

    He’s also gone from being the strongest competitor, on average, to being utterly dominant. Either he was driving poorly at the beginning of the season and has found a second or two within his own performance, or the car / tyre combination has made a massive difference. I know which is more likely.

    Vettel is one of the best on the grid, but he’s not 1 – 2 seconds faster than all the rest of them.

  106. Wayne says:

    Regardless, the tyres and Pirelli/FIA have failed. People keep saying in the MSCH era it was boring right? Well this is the VET era, we have the silly tyres, and we still have one car way out ahead winning every wdc and every other race. So what have the tyres, DRS and KERS done to improve the show? All they have done is compounded the monotony with artificiality.

  107. Auq says:

    All of this race counting makes no sense at all. There have been many more races before the tyre change than after. The important point is the PERCENTAGE of races won.

    Up to Silverstone, Vettel has won 37.5% of all races. After Silverstone, he has won 83.3% of all races.

  108. Grant H says:

    What like when schumacher was at ferrari, god that was exciting not!!!!

  109. Clear View says:

    Did you watch the same race as me? It was freakin gteat!

  110. Dave C says:

    Why? Because it didn’t work out for Hamilton[mod]

    Grats to Vettel, Hulkenberg and Raikkonen 3 drivers definitely not overrated unlike that Mercedes driver who I use to think was a top driver but I beg to differ now.

  111. Yak says:

    Well in Singapore tyres weren’t the issue, and Vettel was basically told to go ape. There were no “look after your tyres” radio messages, just messages telling him to go hard and open up the gap.

    What did we see? We saw Vettel utterly dominate the race, opening up his lead at will. Safety car just nullified the huge lead over the rest? No problem, he’ll just do it all over again.

    So yeah, let’s take tyre wear out of the equation and just give them really durable tyres. The racing will instantly be fantastic everywhere. It’s as simple as that.

  112. Grant H says:

    Hulk for perez’s seat at macca!!!

  113. Rishi says:

    Forget top seat. Some of the speculation going into the weekend was that he may be out of a drive for next season! This apparently because the big teams are either tied up or want a lighter driver (Nico is one of the tallest drivers on the grid which means he may be too heavy when the new rules come in); while the small teams and the medium ones prefer drivers to bring money.

    That said, the more optimistic tone post-race was that he’s back in favour at Lotus, having probably edged ahead of Massa in the fight for one of seats there.

  114. KARTRACE says:

    What do you think why they have been beaten fair and square by the North Koreans in the war ? They are a bunch of confused badly organized people. Its a terrible place. Fire truck suddenly became a SC ???

  115. Simmo says:

    “The marshaling at this circuit is horrendous.

    Fire truck on track infront of racing cars, spraying the extinguisher on Webber’s car from the wrong side.”

    Yes, I completely agree. Not to forget last year when we spent the first 10 laps (or so it felt) with a Mercedes parked on the straight with no effort to move it out of the way.

    It was a major mess up by the organisers. I was just laughing about it when it happened – it was certainly amusing.

  116. bearforce says:

    The Hulk. I still have no faith that the Hulk will get a top drive. The teams have ignored Hulk for a few years now in spite of his great performances in not so great cars.

    Vettel. The tyres made it a little suspenseful.

    Vettel backwards was terrific, lots happening everywhere all the time. Wow, what a fun and exciting race. Woooohooooo.

    I love Martin Brundle.

    Yesterday he commented on air that Alonso had incited the booing. He said that Vettel had calmed and quieted the boos down with a joke and then Alonso deliberately stirred the negative boo people up again.

    Today Martin made a whole segment supporting Vettel saying that it doesn’t matter about the booing now its winning and the multiple WDCs that will count in history.

    This is a huge endorsement from Brundle of Vettel and a huge slap in the face to the boo cry babies and Alonso.

    Also it shows me that Martin Brundle is a great sportsman and a man that will stand up and be counted.

    I am very much impressed with Martin Brundle. Kudos to him.

  117. Feral says:

    +1 thought the same :)

  118. Mr Squiggle says:

    It didn’t look much like a fire truck to me

    I thought waved white flags traditionally meant ‘ambulance on track’.

    Are waived white flags limited to be only waived in conjunction with full course yellow?

    Vettel did no more than would have been expected

  119. Tornillo Amarillo says:

    Fast was HULKENBERG, I’m glad that he showed great skills and battles among the best drivers.
    Sadly Di Resta is the opposite.

  120. Equin0x says:

    Yet you are up in first thing in the morning posting this, why sulk? HAMILTON going backwards? I do wonder where he would have finished if Webber and Rosberg didn’t get struck by more bad luck.

  121. Kris says:

    CYeo said top seat. I think if Lotus end up taking him, Hulk could be thanking his lucky stars that Macca went for Carlos Slim, sorry Sergio Perez, and not him.

  122. John Gibson says:

    Yes, I think Hulkenberg would slaughter Button.

  123. Equin0x says:

    Hahahahaha thats a good 1 Chilton would have had a tough fight, but it did make me laugh to no end seeing that jeep on the straight.

  124. Random 79 says:

    I would have put $5 on the Jeep – He definitely had the one move across the track rule covered :)

  125. Tyler says:

    My money’s on the jeep.

  126. Ian says:

    Haha! Hard to call ;)

  127. Harshad says:

    Whoever drove that jeep was surely the driver of the day i.e when did we see a Jeep leading F1 race anyway!

  128. bearforce says:

    Oh no you didn’t……Boooom…Lol mate nice one.

  129. Oddz says:

    uhh? why bring Lewis into this lol
    He s not the only one the tyres screwed
    Webber, alonso, perez etc..
    How is Lewis not a top driver btw, dnt tell me you using today as an example of this!

  130. deancassady says:

    also Grosjean is finally arriving; he’ll win one this year.

  131. anon says:

    *faster not fastest

    Also, should have added that as good as Kimi’s drive was he really benefited from the timing of the safety car.

  132. justafan says:

    I think Hulk is the only top driver Vettel would be afraid to have as a team mate. Alonso and Raikkonen cannot qualify, Hamilton can but lacks race craft and Button lacks raw pace.

  133. KRB says:

    The Sauber was faster in S1 where it mattered. Anyone with two eyes and a modicum of grey matter between their ears could comprehend that. Simples!

  134. VP Of Common Sense says:

    Talk about arriving at all the wrong conclusions. All today proved is that Sauber is very kind to it’s tyres. Hulkenberg has plenty of potential but one race result does not put him in Alonso and Hamilton’s class. Not even close.

    I read many take Alonso to task for his comments yesterday. I understand that we all have our favorites and villains, but Alonso hit the nail on the head. The tyres are a total joke. It’s not racing, even Vettel had to back off every other lap.

  135. furstyferret says:

    It was a poor race for the mercs cannot disagree on that, but your conspiracy theroy is getting a bit stale now, the mercs did not help themselves, so poor in sector 1 that includes rosberg, keeping hamilton out for 4 _5 laps when hes loosing so much time, rosbergs nose falling of, its a lot better than last year, well done to your man vettal

  136. Gazza says:


    You moan about people dissing Vettel and yet all you do is dis Hamilton.

    If your going to ask people to change the record you first have to heed your own advice my friend.

  137. KRB says:

    Why couldn’t Vettel overtake Button back in Hungary? If you say it was his car then, then you can’t say it was the driver(s) today.

    Both Alonso and Hamilton couldn’t get past Hulkenberg … he had amazing traction out of T1&2, and great straight-line speed. Alonso had good straight-line speed (better than Mercedes), but still had no chance to pass Hulkenberg as he always started too far back on the straight after Hulkenberg was able to pull away.

    As for Nico’s luck, yes he had bad luck with the front wing, but then he got some good luck with the safety car afterwards. On balance still unlucky, but not as unlucky as Webber!

    Nico as best would’ve finished 4th, so he stood to gain 6 points. In Hungary he lost out on a max 4 points, likely 2. 8 pts in Australia. He still gained 10-13 pts from Hamilton and Vettel’s bad luck at Silverstone. So Lady Luck is not terribly in debt to Rosberg, sorry to say. But again, anything to slag Hamilton eh?

    JA, is Sauber’s great traction down to them also making headway with the blown diffuser? Last year, accepted wisdom was that the McLaren Coanda solution was the best, but I think it’s clear now that the Sauber-RBR Coanda solution is the superior one.

  138. Lars J says:

    You get me wrong. I’m not claiming that the tyre change is the reason for the Vettel dominance. There are others, such as Neweys car, the team effort and this year Vettel probably is the best driver.

    But I’m just observing what happened after the Red Bull owners statement post-Spain.

  139. Oddz says:

    When did Lewis swear? Are we now making up facts in order to belittle driver we don’t like?
    The fact that he couldn’t pass the Sauber i guess like most pundits said had nothing to do with the fact that Hulk had more traction and better straight line speed….
    without team orders as you call it even though it was just one instance, Rosberg would only get 3 points, which wouldn’t change anything standing wise

    And btw what in Lars J comments led you to have a fit about Lewis?
    The man was talking about f1 and tyres in general!!!

  140. L.B says:

    Disrespectful? No. Uncouth perhaps…disrepectful is Alonso calling his team a bunch of idiots.

  141. Andrew M says:

    Yeah, and I’m sure Mercedes deliberately add ballast to Nico’s car to make sure Hamilton has outqualified him 9-5 this season.

    And Nico didn’t have any fortune in his Silverstone win, no sir, that was luck free.

  142. Quade says:

    Yeah, its a conspiracy. Nico is faster, but slower than Lewis.
    –scratches head–

  143. Clear View says:

    Good drive by the hulk yet again.
    Surely now the new engines are known to be heavy they should adjust the weight accordingly instead of leaving it as a bad guess.

  144. Tyres says:

    Agree – weight limit change needed,unfair to discriminate against taller drivers!
    That said Button is a tall driver so surely having 2 tall drivers wouldn’t make it any more of a hastle at Mclaren?

  145. furstyferret says:

    Apart from that one race, please list were Mercedes have bent over backwards to support Hamilton to the detriment of rosberg, all in all in the races and quailly i think the standings and the gap between the 2 are about right

  146. Grant H says:

    Disrespect please explain how u come to that conclusion

    If you refer to lewis comment in the race “when the **** are you going to bring me into the pits” I think it was a fair statement lewis lost 20 odd seconds due to merc poor understanding of the tyres / strategy. He lost positions because they kept him out too long.

    Otherwise i dont hear lewis disrepecting his team?

  147. Thompson says:


    The cars are the machines…..

    Hamilton’s frustration is very understandable – maybe he should learn to curse in an obscure language…….

  148. miickmen@yahoo.fr says:

    Dave C says *So what??? You talk about class? Have you heard how much lack of disrespect Hamilton has when he talks to his team? *

    Ok mate, give me one example of this so called disrespect that Lewis shows to his team?
    Plus i seem to remember only one team order (NOT TEAM ORDERS) to hold position and that would’ve been only 3 points difference had it been allowed, so taking that into consideration the standing would be exactly as it is right now

  149. Sri says:

    Actually I felt that too about Seb as the crowd maintained awkward silence. Driver-team relationship is different, but talking in public about another country which has some history with the host is really awkward. It is like someone praising in USA about Iran or North Korea. Anyway, your bringing up Hamilton or taking a dig at OP is unwarranted. Should everyone keep praising Vettel always? Please do not be so touchy about any observation and opinion on him.

  150. Martin says:

    I feel Perez’ lock up and subsequent delamination ruined the strategic interest in the race. Without that there was the possibility that Grosjean could have put Vettel under pressure with a two stop race where Vettel may have hit the cliff. Hamilton’s loss of nearly 20 seconds meant that Grosjean did not have to worry about track position.

    Also Ricciardo plan could have turned out much better if he’d managed a second stop around lap 43.

    I agree with you on Brundle. He seems unbiased to me and calls it as he sees it. I don’t always agree with him, such as his suggestion that Alonso had a poor qualifying and race – the Alonso-Ferrari combination wasn’t great, apart from his inability to find the inside line for turn 4 when fighting Hamilton.

  151. Sujith says:

    Yep Martin is great.

  152. Scuderia McLaren says:


    I actively disliked Brundle, but after him standing up for whats fair and right and sporting, I am forever a fan.

  153. Chris M says:

    Vettel doesn’t deserve the booing but it’s appalling that in F1 there isn’t a fair fight any more and that political maneuvering has led to now dominant displays. Red Bull spent the first half of the season whinging about the tyres, being the crybabies that you now accuse others of being, even though they were still more consistent than any other team and Vettel was winning the championship. Eventually their whinging had an effect and Pirelli reverted to last years tyres handing a massive advantage to Vettel. They simply couldn’t take the negative PR any more from the championship leading team.

    He’s won all but one race since the tyres were changed. Pirelli changes the tyres and Vettel goes from winning 38% of the races to winning 83% of the races.

    The reason for this is relatively clear if you go looking for it. Raikkonen explained that “new” tyres lack front end bite, that is those who like the nose to turn in are struggling to get the car to do so. It’s a more rear biased setup.

    Vettel and Red Bull have mastered that type of setup and erroneously designed their 2013 car to work in that way even though the original 2013 tyres provided more front end grip. This was why they were strong but not dominant. As soon as the tyres were changed they could move back towards a more rear downforce biased setup that is more heavily dependent on the blown diffuser.

    Red Bull have by far the best blown diffuser – primarily because of the ramp style exhaust system that worked so well in the Sauber today, providing better control over the exhaust gases at the cost of some blockage to the airflow around the sidepods. The tyre change meant that those teams who had maximised the airflow around the sidepod were relatively disadvantaged compared to those that maximised the exhaust blowing effect. Suddenly Red Bull and Sauber have moved forward, Mercedes (who had the best package through the high speed turns in Silverstone) and Lotus have moved back. Sauber’s traction out of low speed corners and Red Bulls general strength in the slow speed corners is down to the ramped exhausts.

    Vettel, much more than Webber, is a master of driving this style of car. He is brilliant at rotating the car using the throttle and relying on the blown diffuser to make the rear then stick out of the corner. The combination of the “new” tyres and the ramped exhaust with that driving style are giving him his huge advantage.

    But we’ve had four championships in a row now handed to him in this manner. Red Bull and Vettel aren’t one trick ponies by any stretch, but they have singularly exploited this one specific technique more than any other team or driver. I am hopeful that next year the regulations will put an end to one specific driving technique holding a huge advantage over any other – we should see different drivers being strong in different races as their differing techniques give an advantage that waxes and wanes. If Vettel still dominates next year without a clear car advantage then I’ll go and buy a hat just so I can eat it, but I am hopeful that there will be a much closer and more even fight which will be so much more exciting for the real fans of racing.

  154. Wayne says:

    I disagree with the booing wholeheartedly but VET could do more to help himself in that regard. He effectively called all the other teams/drivers lazy recently, claiming that while he and his team and working the rest are dangling the balls in the pool.

    And I do not think that ALO is in any way responsible for the booing, you are just taking any opportunity to have a dig at him.

  155. H.Guderian says:

    Paul Hembery: “I can only suggest he goes to ask the soon-to-be four-times champion how to get the best from the same tyres.”

    This is called “DOUBLE STANDARDS”.

    When RBR was moaning (This is not racing) Mr. Hembery very quickly changed the tyres. Pirelli manipulated this season to favor the strongest team. Why he said that to ALO and not the same thing to Horner, VET, etc??? Huuummm…. I think I kown the reason.

    Great to see all the booing to VET, RBR *AND* Pirelli. They deserve it.

  156. Rob Newman says:

    I am not a great Brundle fan but he has changed his attitude towards Vettel lately which is very helpful.

    There were no boo-fans today because Alonso there wasn’t on the podium. So now we know how to keep the boo-fans away.

    By the way, Brundle and Crofty didn’t call the race properly today. Brundle said Alonso spun at the beginning and then they didn’t notice Webber overtaking Alonso. There was another overtake they missed. I think they were looking somewhere else.

  157. aezy_doc says:

    Given the Perez incident If I were Alonso I would be laughing Paul Hembrey’s face. The tyres are pap. Clearly they don’t allow cars to push for more than a lap or two before having to follow the ‘lap delta’ and they explode after getting a flat spot. Pirelli, this is embarrassing.

  158. anon says:

    Both the Ferrari and Mercedes were quicker than the Sauber. Hulkenberg simply had better race craft than Alonso and Hamilton.

    Look at what Massa did from the back of the grid catching up to Gutierrez and passing him.

    If Hulkenberg can do that with a works Ferrari engine and inferior chassis to the Ferrari, imagine what he’d do in a Ferrari!!

  159. Martin says:

    Kind of helps that the Lotus is the second fastest car in race conditions and the easiest on its tyres. Makes the undercut pretty easy. Still a strong drive from Kimi and Romain’s error shows that he still needs that little bit of polish.

  160. Chromatic says:

    If only Kimi had good saturdays …. love the way he took his chance for p2 !! At present, VET and RAI are the sunday men of F1.

  161. KARTRACE says:


    So sorry for Rosberg and that nose trouble.

  162. Equin0x says:

    These comments are boring,I thought it was an interesting race lot of dramas and a masterclass from the champion, the cherry on top of a sweet cake, it was a good race.

  163. Martin says:

    Hi Grant,

    With Mercedes, the team wants to win, and with the tyres being well understood the way to do this is generally to qualify on pole. That needs downforce. To reduce that downforce for the race may not have helped much as with traction on the Mercedes being poor it would have only been worse and Grosjean would have had a better run at the start.

    Lotus has gained qualifying pace by adding downforce. The cars are now at the other end of the speed trap compared to where the team was in Spain for example. It is like Red Bull in previous years – great corner speed, traction and low gearing allows passing.

  164. KARTRACE says:

    Grant, sorry buddy. You got it all wrong. Those Pirellis are not for racing. They are only for the showroom cars. Museum to be more specific. To pathetic, that’s what Pirelli is doing

  165. DEANO says:

    To those that think that a continuous lockup on a set of tires can’t cause an eventual tire failure then you’re not anywhere near binging a tire expert. Both McLaren cars in the Korean GP were locking up their tires throughout the race. You can only scrub off so much of the tires tread rubber until you’re riding on the carcass. Once that happens there is nothing holding the under tread attached to the carcass. Please visit the official F1 site and and view the photo of the massive lockup that Perez did just at the pit re-entering area. The tire smoke and perhaps brake smoke is massive. Just after that particular brake lockup is when the tire came apart.

  166. AdamB says:

    “What like when schumacher was at ferrari, god that was exciting not!!!!”

    Why do people always bring that up like that was the only time we had a tyre war & tyres designed to be pushed?

    We had tyre war’s Pre 2000′s & we had very durable tyres pre-2000′s & the racing was brilliant.

    Also the Schumacher & Ferrari era was not boring, 2002 & 2004 were less interesting but what about 2000 & 2003 both years were brilliant with close racing & a good title fight.
    2005 & 2006 were also brilliant season which featured a tyre war & tyres designed to be the best they could be.

    All the Pirelli-Era has produced is races where drivers are not racing, There all doing whatever laptimes there told to do & are all told to watch there tyres constantly.
    The tyre management races Pirelli have brought in are whats boring, This is by far the worst era in F1′s history because the only ‘racing’ you get is artificial as tyres fall to pieces & drivers push overtake buttons.

    When drivers in long distance endurance sportscar racing can push harder than F1 drivers & don’t need to manage tyres as much as in F1 then something is very badly wrong.
    Its no wonder Mark Webber wants out of F1, He actually wants to be able to race hard again.

  167. Wayne says:

    What? even with these tyres we still have VET in Schumacher’s role so what is your point? The race was a foregone conclusion then and its a foregone conclusion now.

  168. Martin says:

    Unfortunately while the tyres will be better the forecast – such as Webber on Top Gear – is that fuel saving will be significant. Still robust tyres will make the drivers happier as they can push and pushing the throttle is not a big discriminator between drivers.

  169. MelB says:

    As for Rikkonen, he gained from the first safetycar. Might even have lost from the other since Vettel kept his tyres alive due to those extra slow laps.

  170. Sebee says:

    So they are best on all tire versions? Tires must not be that important of a variable in the RBR package. :-)

  171. Grant H says:

    Eh come again, that was dull

  172. Sebee says:

    I’m 0 for 2! I quit the prediction business goferet. No one can beat your streak ending Kimi call.

    Vettel does what Vettel wants?

    Have you been watching Forest Gump before the GP today? :-)

  173. CYeo says:

    Vettel’s 2nd last fastest lap ended in .666

    Vetterminator looks good for every race to come.

  174. KARTRACE says:

    Drivers are not exactly video games controlled products. Ones in the rhythm he has to keep it. Once Senna father asked him why did he drove so fast in the rain, why he didn’t slow down a bit. Senna replied. ” If I slowed down I could’ve swerved out of control” that’s how it goes. Race engineer is not in that car. He can advice but driver has to decide what suits him and the car.

  175. Antti says:

    Kimi passed Romain fair and square on the track, didn’t see any team orders there. If anything, Romain wanted the team to order Kimi let him pass, but why should have there been such a team order? Just to make Romain feel better? Romain made a mistake and paid the price for it. He wouldn’t have challenged for the win in the final laps.

  176. Kirk says:

    There were no team orders for Grosjean this time, Grosjean made a mistake and Kimi passed him, the team told him that he was racing Kimi and his engineer told him he could be faster and could overtake him

  177. Sujith says:

    +1 on the HULK.

    I watched that A1 GP season too. He was just simply amazing and not to mention his GP2 championship too :)

  178. Chromatic says:

    Rumor: Barrichello was driving the fire truck….

  179. derschorsch says:


    Maybe the battle for first place was a bit boring – which wouldn’t have been had the second safety car not ruined it.
    But the rest of the field wasn’t.
    We have seen some really good races this season. The only thing that might be boring is that Vettel is really strong in the red bull. But apart from that it has been brilliant. If you are interested in the rest of the field it has been a great season with lots of scraps for the other places.
    All we need is a driver who can take the challenge to Vettel. Not only a driver who is fast – which we have a lot of but a driver who also puts a lot of time and effort into the team to beat Vettel and Red Bull.
    Really hope Kimi and Ferrari can do this.

  180. David C says:

    Why did you not congratulate Kimi/Allison since, do you think kimi designed the car in his spare time.

  181. Sri says:

    Yes, I felt that the radio messages to Grosjean from Lotus team was a bit odd as they were more than once urging Grosjean to fight Kimi. They were trying to prove a point to themselves (perhaps to Kimi, others and even Grosjean) that Grosjean is good enough for them and they don’t care about Kimi leaving. Well they ended up with an egg on their faces to some extent. It was similar to Ron Dennis saying to Hamilton: “We are not racing Kimi” in 2007.

    I also liked the way Kimi nonchalantly threw the cap to Grosjean in the pre-podium ceremony after the race.

  182. Rob Newman says:

    Grosjean was faster than Kimi so he wanted team orders. But the team told them to do it on the track – there won’t be team orders to move Kimi back to 3rd position.

  183. James Allen says:

    You have to factor in all the development work on the aero etc too.

    They’ve done a lot of very effective work

  184. aezy_doc says:

    Vettel is a fantastic race driver, but I agree he is not in and of himself 1-2 secs a lap faster than any other of the top driver. If Vettel were to drive the Merc or the Ferrari, he would not be as fast as he is now. But if you put any other driver in the red bull they wouldn’t be as fast as Vettel is in the red bull. He is a man in harmony with the machine underneath him (as he has been for the majority of the last 4 seasons). Huge credit to him and Red Bull for achieving this.

  185. SteveS says:

    Vettel has always been “utterly dominant” on the Asian tracks, it’s not something which abruptly started happening this year.

  186. justafan says:

    Vettel usually goes faster in the second half. No conspiracy there.

  187. James Allen says:

    Without the last one and GRO mistake hem might have challenged VET for the win in final laps

  188. furstyferret says:

    He dosnt help himself somtimes with these comments, no one has the right to be up the front

  189. bearforce says:

    Yep, mum says to be fair everyone should have a turn in the fastest car.

  190. Alexander Supertramp says:

    Come on,that’s not what he’s saying at all. He’s saying he’s battling for P4 where him and Alonso should be battling it out for P1 but that they have no chance to do so. I bet you my small bank account that he would include Seb and Kimi to his list of high profile drivers. Poor choice of words from Lewis, but you have to show bad faith to pretend what you do. Don’t stir up the pot Seebee, you’re better than this and you’re favorite driver just won another race, you should be happy ;).

  191. Rob Newman says:

    No time for mind games this year so, you can see a couple of drivers getting a bit hot and bothered because very soon they will have to face 4ettel!

  192. Miha Bevc says:

    And people say Vettel is arrogant and feels entitled …

  193. Michael S says:

    so tired if this attitude from Lewis and Alonso. According to them others should not be allowed to race with them on track as they are so great

  194. Fireman says:

    That’s pretty unsporting not to give credit when it’s due. Hulk gave 110 percent. Every driver should recognize that.

  195. Glennb says:

    I read that too :) That’s something his disciples would say. I wouldn’t expect it from him personally though. Just goes to show that some people get caught up in their own hype at times. I note that it was only himself and Alonso he thought should be higher up. That says volumes about his mindset in itself.

  196. Oddz says:

    i think you will enjoy to knowing that Vettel thinks other drivers have been hanging their b***s in the pool on fridays

    have a read what the other drivers think

  197. Quade says:

    Lewis is right. If you put a monkey in the Red Bull it will become World champ. The car is that good and its not fair on the rest.
    Lewis and Alonso are easily the best F1 drivers with skills way above the rest of the field.

    Vettel has Adrian Newey to thank and Webbers car for spare parts and other water carrying duties, so the bore-fest matches on.

  198. TGS says:

    Lol, I wonder if any of the drivers actually try to pull some James Hunt style moves after the races. Surely Kimi would be having a go.

  199. Fada says:

    Actually, as per the call not to pit lewis, it was the right call from the team. Lewis had more to lose than to gain from pitting. It was a tough but the best call.
    I agree with you on the S2 & S1 speed differential. It cost them in Spa, and it cost them here again, this time dearly! With a better straight line speed, the merc could have easily taken p2 back from grojean at the subsequent laps after the start. Given this, i feel lewis would not have stressed his tyres as much and might have made the second stint work. I simply cannot understand why they keep going for s2 grip over higher end of straight speed. There is simply no overtaken to be done in the high downforce sectors. It bothers me to be honest.

  200. Fireman says:

    Grosjean got proper sanction for it. P3 :D

  201. Aaron Noronha says:

    I am sure Rosberg wasnt holding hamiliton back. When the wings are as low as the mercedes wings were they create additional downforce. That is the only reason he could keep hamilton behind him, Do you seriously believe hamilton would not have taken the position back??? Hamilton tyres were gone and he had absolutely no grip to challenge Rosberg even though he could see Rosberg was suffering

  202. goferet says:

    @ Sebee

    Hahaha, incidentally Forest Gump aired this week but no I didn’t watch it.

    And yes, the prediction game is an ever moving goal post for I had my hopes on a Lewis win.

  203. furstyferret says:

    It probably would have had better traction though, than the mercs in sector 1

  204. furstyferret says:

    Thank you mrs hulkenburg

  205. bearforce says:

    Nice comment. He has shown how good he is time and time again. I just don’t get why they aren’t snapping him up.

  206. Alexander Supertramp says:

    I agree with you, but you’re taking the admiration a little over the top :D

  207. Equin0x says:

    Na although I know Hulk is very good and almost certain to be better than Hamilton I don’t think he would beat Vettel over a season, just look at his results against Barrichello and Di Resta, I’m sure he would give Seb a good run for his money and can on some occasions have better weekends but overall Vettel is the complete driver, another thing junior catagories don’t always tell the full story otherwise the likes of Brundle, Liuzzi, Montoya and many more would all be top class drivers, Vettel was always almost too young when he was driving in his years in the lower catagories, almost like men vs him (boy) but now in his prime Seb and Hulk would dominate a season please a top team sign Hulk.

  208. deancassady says:

    How about a Ferrari drive for the Hulk?
    Wouldn’t that be good, Kimi Hulk race every race?

  209. KRB says:

    He was even more dominant than Hamilton in the junior categories? Please share.

    Hulk is good, he did very well today, though he had a tremendous drive advantage out of Turns 1 and 2. When Lewis passed him on the pit straight, it almost cost him two places! Hulk was able to accelerate past on the run down to Turn 3 (passing Lewis even before the DRS line!), and then Alonso almost got past Lewis, b/c he didn’t have DRS.

    Lewis needed to pass Hulk somewhere in S2, and hope to make a 1 sec gap before the pit straight. A tall order indeed!

  210. andrew says:

    Adam, the racing wasn’t brilliant in the past. It got progressively worse up until the last 3 years to the point that there was only ever overtaking on most tracks if it rained.

    We have the best wheel to wheel racing that we have ever had at the moment. Some of the round the outside late braking overtaking that Raikkonen has been pulling off lately has been brilliant.

    It rarely happened before. I was watching it.

  211. furstyferret says:

    Webbers luck reminds me of the famous quote, if he brought an undertakers people would stop dying..

  212. Rob Newman says:


    Paying for what he did to his team and his teammate.

  213. Fireman says:

    I’m just hoping we see his right hook. That would be memorable way to finish his F1 career.

  214. Lewis says:


    Like Martin Brundle said, if Mark didn’t have bad luck he’d have no luck.

  215. All revved-up says:


    I used to think Webber’s car breaking down was just unlucky. Now I KNOW it is because Webber attracts bad luck!

    Him moving on is probably good. It’s time for a change.

    If Perez’s front tyre delaminated just 5 seconds later, Webber could have dived past under braking on turn 3 and on his way to a Top 5 finish.

    I’m surprised Sutil made that error. He is usually a safe pair of hands as a driver. But he had to make that error just behind Webber!

    Button’s also quite unlucky with turn 3 – second year in a rows he’s been a victim. Kobayashi last year, and Massa this year.

  216. L.B says:

    No, not the same. Vettel’s domination would be equivalent to Usain Bolt racing against high school students. That’s the sort of “development” advantage that Vettel has. Which is why it’s not fun to watch.

  217. Alexander Supertramp says:

    You can’t compare mechanical sports to pure physical sports, that’s really comparing apples and oranges. Vettel is doing such a great job with his car that whatever anyone on the grid does with his car, he still won’t beat Seb. It’s not fair to say drivers have to do better work. Seb has been pushing his car to the limit all year making this his best WDC to me, but other drivers have pushed their car to the limit and still ended up behind Seb. Right now it’s the other teams that have to do a better job catching RB.

  218. anon says:

    Kimi’s never been a good qualifier like Vettel or Hamilton. He really benefited from the timing of the safety car, but it was still a good drive.

  219. Alexander Supertramp says:

    Short memory? Kimi had a pretty poor streak after the summer break..

  220. Antti says:

    I’d say, VET is the weekend man of F1, and RAI and ALO (usually) are the Sunday men.

  221. Elie says:

    We’ve seen with Lotus that if you have a strong Saturday- good set up for quali you generally struggle toward the end of the race on Sunday- as Grosjean has many times.. Thr wise man says I will forgo 3 or 4 grid slots on Sat to be there or thereabouts on Sunday..-Lotus do not have the luxury of Red Bull to do both well.

  222. Aaron Noronha says:

    Alonso is too, Dont write him off just because of one bad race

  223. Rob Newman says:

    LOL! Don’t let herowassena read this. I have been getting a good lashing from him for similar comments on several forums for the past two years from him :)

  224. Gazza says:

    @Tealaef Hamiltons question about how to overtake a car that was obviously much faster on the straights is what you call a rhetorical question.

    ie. he already knew the answer he was just making a point.

  225. Alexander Supertramp says:

    The regulations have changed a lot since 2009, but RB always seem to find a way to make better use of the exhaust gasses so who’s to say they won’t do the same next year? Who’s to say they won’t be the ones finding the next big thing? Their dominance shows that they are as a team on a different level. I really hope you’re right because I want a closer field as well, but the odds are in Red Bull’s favour.

  226. H.Guderian says:

    “He’s won all but one race since the tyres were changed. Pirelli changes the tyres and Vettel goes from winning 38% of the races to winning 83% of the races”.


    This is a *SCANDAL* (to say the least).

  227. DK says:

    Great post, hope you are right about 2014.

  228. Rob Newman says:

    Webber, is that you? Trying to castigate your team and your teammate again?

  229. SteveS says:

    “If Vettel still dominates next year without a clear car advantage …”

    Let’s be realistic here, if Vettel dominates (or wins the WDC next year by one point) it will be claimed that he has a clear car advantage.

    “their whinging had an effect and Pirelli reverted to last years tyres”

    I have to give you an “F” in history, as that simply is not what happened.

  230. deancassady says:

    great article; I really appreciate this insight; thanx.

  231. Basil says:

    Great post and I agree completely.

  232. Sasidharan says:

    Agree! It was manipulation, otherwise we could have seen a Kimi-Alonso battle.

  233. Clear View says:

    Did you watch the same race? Loads of wheel to wheel battles right through the whole field except for 1st place. F1 is not just about the winner, it’s about the massive and diverse technical knowhow coming together with skilled pilots to pit man and machine against each other, if you just watching for the winner or want a pure drivers series your watching the wrong thing. It’s a team sport, it’s about the constructor/driver combo not 1 or the other. You can have a great car and great driver with poor strategy and it doesn’t matter how fast they are on paper. You need everything to work together in unison.
    This Formula 1…..

    If you want a driver’s series watch GP2 or World Series By Renault.

    Today was a good interesting race.

  234. Paige says:

    re: Grosjean and Hamilton, late-braking

    1) It’s not hard to break later than another driver when you have more grip. Lotus had the better race car today than Mercedes.

    2) It’s not hard to brake later than another driver when you have the preferred line into the corner.

    Hamilton certainly beat Alonso in the late-braking competition today when Alonso had several good looks at him. (You were probably tuning away from the race at that time: not because you weren’t watching the race at that time, but that your warped mind wouldn’t allow you to see a reality in which Hamilton was outperforming a driver in a certain metric during a certain period of time.) That doesn’t really mean anything in terms of the relative quality of the two. It just means that Hamilton got him today.

    I really hate the incredible bias of the Hamilton and Vettel haters. They take every single instance of either of them getting beaten by another driver or overtaken or generally them not at their best, and they extrapolate it and say, “See! They’re not that good!” And it is ALWAYS these two drivers, and ONLY these two drivers who ever attract so much antagonism from haters in this regard. These two are regarded for being great drivers because they over a large sample of observations, they have the record that indicates they are great drivers. (Not just the results, but the examples of great performances.) You guys who are haters of these two or any other drivers simply need to get a freaking life.

    Romain is a fabulous driver. Maybe he is a better overtaker or late-breaker. Maybe he isn’t. Both of them have shown they are damned good at this, and both of them also have a history of suiciding themselves and their cars while attempting it or going off track and having to give the position back. Lewis has toned down his mistakes a lot over the past couple of years and really isn’t as aggressive about it as he used to be, while Romain is still fresh from some brain farts in this regard and maybe has more mistakes to make.

  235. deancassady says:

    Webber, I write with great sadness, seems to be throwing his credibility in with the Alonso Media Corporation.
    Ahh…. maybe it is time for him to move on. I’m sad to see him go, I don;t think the other Aussie will ever be as good.

  236. Clear View says:

    Glad I’m not the only 1 who thought it was a decent entertaining race.

  237. Sebee says:

    Vetterminator says: “P1 – I’ll be back!”

    Also, I’m told that he will not stop until your motor racing records and those records of everyone you know are dead!

  238. Anne says:

    .666? You mean he sold his soul to the devil? Is he the anti Crist? That would explain the 4 championships. It was supernatural powers.


  239. Racer89 says:

    Romain couldn’t even challenge Kimi to pass, so there was no chance for him to push Vettel and Kimi had also 6-7 laps older tyres than Romain.

  240. Tealeaf says:

    James I usually do agree with you contrary to what you may think but I don’t think Grosjean could have challenged Seb, he couldn’t the whole race before that and if he couldn’t overtake Kimi who had lower top speed than Seb and was also slower on lap times then I don’t think it would have been possible.

  241. Maybet says:

    you are dreaming James.

    Vettel had so much in his pocket that in the end he was able to enjoy lapping slower to protect his tire.

    You are exaggerating Lotus’ tire advantage….i didn’t spot the sign of deg from vettel ‘s pace at all.

  242. Elie says:

    James, Grosjean was no chance at Seb..Sebs tyres were marginal but so too were Romain. He could not even attack Kimi in front of him on tyres 6 laps older..besides Seb had a buffer of 4.2sec . Before Kimi passed Romain it was even more.. Seb just managed the gap and that front right…Grosjeans sulking was not the sign of a future champion–it was bordering on childish–/really!

  243. Alexander Supertramp says:

    I don’t think Hamilton or Alonso could do much against Hulk’s superior traction on very critical points of the circuit. They could only hope for a mistake by Hulk but that never happened.

  244. Equin0x says:

    Its very likely he could beat the ailing and aging Alonso, also he is alot faster and race worthy than Rosberg so he would also beat Hamilton at Mercedes, time for that seat at Lotus or Mclraren to show what he can do.

  245. Harshad says:

    First sentence is Not true at all!!
    The fastest laps (relatively) were in this order;

    And there was only 1 tenth of difference in all those (respective) personal best laps.
    All these cars were evenly matched on race day.

    HULK kept it cool and used his car’s advantage to a great effect. Car advantage here is not outright speed (like RBR) but better traction out of the corners.

    Of Course HULK did a stellar job of not putting a foot wrong in-spite of being under pressure for virtually the whole race.

  246. justafan says:

    Makes you wonder why Ferrari didn’t take him. They would have had at least one driver who can qualify.

  247. Clear View says:

    They are shutting off 4 of the 8 cylinders on acceleration out of corners at 50millisecond intervals to cut the torque down, if going through a left corner it’s 1 on right hand bank and 3 on left and vice versa for a right hander. Reason being that as the car roles in the corner the outside edge of the defuser becomes less effective as it is slightly higher off the ground than the inside edge, the clever way they shut off 4 specific cylinders is to increase the gasses blown on the side of the defuser that needs it most creating a more even downforce on the rear tyres, combined with the slightly reduced torque prevents most of the wheel spin and a much more even downforce delivery from left to right.All the Renault powered cars use it but RedBull have the most efficient defuser and rear floor area so get the best benefit.

    Hope that helps you understand better.

  248. Rob Newman says:

    Bonjourno il mio amico! Italian, eh? Not surprised with your theory. Actually they are filling their tanks with Jägermeister and Red Bull!!

  249. Quade says:

    Alessandro Ciambella
    I’m not that good at aerodynamics, but I found the way the fire on Webbers car clung to the path between the intake and diffuser to be very intriguing. The flames seemed to flow to the back of the car.
    Maybe you can raise this topic on f1technical? I’d be glad to join you (I post under a different name, though).

  250. Equin0x says:

    Hulkenberg’s weight is not exactly heavy and I think with the min car weight next year at 680kg its not an issue, also with the masses of torque available that should also help the heavier drivers slightly, as goes for Hulk faster than Hamilton in the same car, well very likely he is and if he were to join Merc the Hamilton fan club would be shaking in their boots.

  251. Harshad says:

    Kimi was already P3 before the First SC.
    The only ones who lost out were Vettel and Grosjean. Rest all gained from the First SC, because the gap to the leaders was nullified.

  252. MikeyB says:

    The actual swear word was clipped from the pit radio broadcast for obvious reasons, but it was clear from the context what Lewis had actually said about his tyres.

  253. mtm says:

    “When are you gonna call me in man? These tyres are f***ed”. Late second stint

  254. Simmo says:

    We don’t know for sure that he swore, but the radio message we heard was “these tyres are” then a beep. Whether the word was filtered or never said is unclear.

    Either way, swearing is nothing new at all. Just because it got broadcasted to everyone doesn’t make any difference, so Equin0x’s point means nothing in reality.

  255. Simmo says:

    Oh right, there was another occasion which I have just remembered, when he was rude directly to the team. Nonetheless, the point is the same.

  256. Equin0x says:

    His tone of voice to the team is disrespectable and if it was Vettel saying things like Hamilton does this season they’re all be shooting him down like a pest. There’s no doubt Hamilton is a fast driver I actually like his style of driving but ever since his new management team telling him to be more ruthless and create this dodgy image with bespoke hip hop hats and different clothes his peak performances have suffered, his old attitude of its all about what happens on the track and never giving up has been replaced by how he ‘deserves’ to be fighting for wins by default and keeps adding fuel on the attack against Vettel by his fans are just unprofessional and his competetiveness has suffered, he has progressed like the other top drivers instead his rookie season was arguably his best, he could have been on a par with Vettel but in the end his default position of 4th is all he gets even with the team supporting him even Rosberg would beat him if it wasn’t for the team orders, dodgy strategies and most importantly suspect reliability.

  257. aezy_doc says:

    Agreed. Pirelli should be totally shame faced for the entire tyre situation this season. It’s been a complete farce from start to finish. Cheese tyres. Delaminating tyres. Secret tyre tests. Initial refusal to change the tyre construction. Changing the tyre construction at the whim of a couple of teams. Trying to wind up Alonso. Exploding tyre today. Unbelievably amateurish and useless from a global brand.

  258. Clear View says:

    They can go into the pits and put new ones on you know, it’s the teams fault for not really believing their drivers when they say the tyres are dead. You could hear them on radio saying “it’s only graining” or “it’s too soon to pit” if they won’t listen to the man who has the 1st hand knowledge because he is sitting in the dam thing then any danger is on the teams head for keeping them out. The teams got their predictions wrong not Pirelli got the tyres wrong. What exactly is practice for, if not to work out the best way to use the tyres, fuel etc. This one lies solidly with the teams deciding they can doore laps than is physically possible!

  259. Harshad says:

    Question is, didn’t the team anticipate this after Friday Practice Sessions!
    1) If they didn’t then whose to blame?
    2) If they did, then why did they opt for riskier strategy?
    because “on paper” 2 stopper was quicker than 3 stopper?

    The way I see it, is that the teams want to run the race in a certain way (2 stopper), but the tyres are not necessarily allowing them to do so! So when (eg:-) a team like Mercedes competing with Ferrari sees Ferrari staying out for a 2 stopper, then they have to do it same way! more or less being forced to use the tyres even after they are past their life/durability.

    I’m not exactly supporting Pirelli, for what happened at Silverstone was just wrong, but here (Korea) it is more down to the teams, and the way they chose to use the tyres that lead to failures.

    Bottomline: Every tyre has a durable life, if you want to use it beyond that, then you take a big risk, and if it doesn’t pay off you can’t blame the tyres for that.

  260. Tealeaf says:

    Yeah and put the 2013 aero cornering load on that 86 car those tyres would be shredded in 1 lap especially the skinny front 1′s.

  261. CYeo says:

    With the white colour side markings, they look appropriate for the 50′s.

  262. SteveS says:

    Other teams/drivers have repeatedly called RB/Vettel cheats, but I don’t see them getting booed for it.

  263. deancassady says:

    Grosjean’s day is coming.
    I, a big Kimi fan, would have loved to see Grosjean challenge Vettel.
    As the season wanes, in the past two races. Grosjean has demonstrated the most challenge to Vettel, and I believe that it is only a question of time when he will catch him.
    Brundle, kudos for standing up to the Alonso Media Corporation; I hope Alonso voluntarily leaves Ferrari so that we can get the Hulk in there against Kimi, which would be good to see next year.
    Congradulations to the little team that could Lotus, and Eric Boullier, Romain, and Kimi, for providing some competition at this stage of the season. Also hoping that Ferrari can get their act together and create a fast car for next year, because right now, it looks significantly poorer than the Lotus.

  264. dean cassady says:

    great comment.
    in fact, the only driver really threatening Vettel right now, is Grosjean.
    I haven’t always been a fan, for… the obvious reasons; but that adversity seems just about overcome, and it was significant.
    The new ‘old’ tires don’t suit the current version of the Lotus and Kimi’s driving style; the understeer throws him off.
    Grosjean was very good, also in Singapore.
    A win is near for Grosjean; I’m convinced he’ll get one this year.
    But I like Kimi in Japan, where his comparative advantages will be more significant factors in success.

  265. deancassady says:

    Hulk to Ferrari to race with Kimi!

  266. deancassady says:

    the best.
    hope to see Kimi head to head against Hulk at Ferrari, next year.

  267. Sebastian says:

    The lotuses were at the bottom of the speed trap in quali. Kimi was managing the tyres in S2, Vettel was not. It almost cost him in stint 2. Vettels tyres were gone. Without the second SC he would have struggled.

  268. deancassady says:

    this is a sport where one makes one’s own luck.
    I agree with you that Grosjean is finally coming good, and good, he will challenge everybody.
    Also, Romain seemed targeted earlier on, unfairly blamed for accidents; luckily, he seems over it, and I think he will get his step up to the top before the season is out.
    Kimi is the master right now, and he is proving it race-over-race.
    I’m hoping that Ferrari can put together a competitive car next year, and the Hulk gets Alonso’s spot.

  269. Fireman says:

    It’s called racing. Grosjean just needs to get himself on that other level. He’s certainly fast on one lap.

  270. roman is good but nothing else says:

    Are you serious?!? I think kimi had lost many positions and even maybe some wins, bacause lotus had made some bad strategy calls. And how many passes roman had done this year?;) i think not so many..I’m sorry but I think kimi is the one of the fastest and talented driver ever! Roman could be future star but I can’t see that day in my head…

  271. Harshad says:

    Today Kimi was P3 before the first SC.
    So clearly, he made is way from P9 to P3 on merit. He gained only one place because of SC.

    As for Grosjean I agree today he was unlucky.
    Also, The difference in Qualifying between both of them has to do with tyres. RAI preferred the earlier ones and GRO the current ones! (They both have said so).

    Overall today’s race was good lesson to GRO. If he is going to race against these 4 drivers (VET/RAI/HAM/ALO) then he can’t afford to put a foot wrong, otherwise they will make you pay. Just look at how HULK managed today’s race and compare that with GRO races since Hungary this year.

    1) HUNGARY he collides into Button and pays the price.
    2) Monza he finishes only 3 secs behind KIMI. (Kimi was dead last after Lap1, whereas GRO was stuck behind the Macca’s for bulk of the race)
    3) Germany/Korea unlucky with Safety car interruption.
    4) Kimi(Spa) and GRO (Singapore) have one non finish each after Hungary.

    So you can say GRO was Unlucky only twice since Hungary but that bad luck only made him lose one place to Kimi nothing more!
    He should have ahead of Kimi in Hungary and Monza by a comfortable margin but he wasn’t!!

  272. Craig D says:

    The race behind Vettel was pretty exciting and had some great moments of action. No matter rules are used, if one team does a much better job than the others, they’re going to dominate.

  273. justafan says:

    We’ve been through this kind of domination from time to time in history. It’s nothing unusual. Ascari has done it, then Fangio, Clark, Stewartr, Lauda, Mansell, Schumacher and now it’s Vettel’s turn. Those things happen from time to time. Copetitiveness is there when there’s no outstanding driver or the best driver has uncompetitive equipment. If the best driver has the best car, you get dominant performances from him.

  274. Tom Haythornthwaite says:

    + 0.5. DRS would be a great innovation if it could be used anywhere anytime. KERS would also be great if there were no rules limiting its application.

    The tire rules are ridiculous and actually embarrass the sport. I see only two good options for tires: a full tire war (but that’s very expensive) or durable control tires that remove tire wear from the equation.

  275. KARTRACE says:

    Vettel perfected his sprinting away doctrine. He sprints away out of the DRS zone by the time that DRS is enabled and the race finished. Catch me if you can, that’s the name of the game lately. DRS should be from the 2nd lap ON.

  276. Sebastian says:

    IT was a punctured radiator = burning oil

  277. JF says:

    It is the FIA spec tyres, not Pirelli. As Hembry and everyone else (Except drivers) keep on saying is the tires are exactly what the FIA, FOM and teams requested. Pirelli has given exactly what was requested. Teams are getting what they deserve.

  278. Simmo says:

    Yes. I’m all in support of Pirelli degradation when it is good. Processional races are not fun to watch, but this is too far. They have got it wrong – and worse, had another explosion. It was completely their fault.

  279. KRB says:

    Pirelli are going more conservative next year … hopefully they get it right. Truly, I think I’m done with the refueling ban. There would be more driver errors if they had to do quali-run laps every lap.

    Then pit stop times wouldn’t have the importance that they have now.

  280. All revved-up says:


    Well put. Tyres should not be 90% of racing.

    There’s a difference between:
    A. Tyres that can’t last 5km and have to be driven at 90%; and
    B. Tyres that one can drive flat out for 10 to 12 laps before the tyres fall off a cliff.

    We all want type B, but Pirelli is making Type A.

    Perhaps Pirelli don’t have the technology to make Type B, or the lack of testing is impeding their tyre developmemt.

  281. Simmo says:

    Plus di Resta… Well. 5 non-finishes in a row now. Not good. This time was his fault, so annoying!

  282. All revved-up says:

    + 10

    It was a fantastic race from a racing perspective. I’ll add the following:
    - watching Alonso jink left and right, trying to create an overtaking opportunity against Hulk, but yet defending against Kimi;
    - Kimi’s overtaking move on Alonso when the latter’s tyres went off, and then exactly positioning his car to avoid the Alonso cut back
    - Hamilton’s defending against Alonso while trying to overtake Hulk
    - Hamilton slowing Hulk into turn 2 and almost pulling off the overtake into turn 3

    Superb precision wheel to wheel racing by the 3 World Champions and Hulk.

    Rosberg and Grosjean in equal cars seemed tame by comparison.

    Massa, Maldonado, Perez et al elbows out car banging racing seem clumsy compared to the World Champions.

    The wonderful race brought out the skills of the Top 5 compared to the field.

  283. trev says:

    but he overtook Hamilton then held him up when his front wing broke. If Mercedes were totally in love with Hamilton they would have pitted hamilton first to change the tyres.

  284. Elie says:

    Well if you rule out places like Montreal, Spa, Monza and anywhere that’s wet or cold /pretty much excludes 1/3 of the races. So they have to take every chance when it comes .does this still make them 2nd on Sunday. – I don’t think so. I’d say 3rd at best and the fact they are 4th reflects Grosjeans struggles early in the year.

  285. justafan says:

    He would have won Silverstone too if not for his bad luck. It would have changed the percentage game then.

  286. Auq says:

    @justafan: well, I presume you can do (or already have done) the math and figure out that it wouldn’t have changed much. 50 vs 83.3% is still a hell of a difference.

  287. justafan says:

    If McLaren didn’t cheat they would have $ 100000000 more to spend now. Is it RBR’s fault that their competitors were caught cheating?

  288. Quade says:

    Lewis is right. If you put a monkey in the Red Bull it will become World champ. The car is that good and its not fair on the rest.
    Lewis and Alonso are easily the best F1 drivers with skills way above the rest of the field.

    Vettel has Adrian Newey to thank and Webbers car for spare parts and other water carrying duties, so the bore-fest matches on.

  289. justafan says:

    They had to be changed before someone got killed mate. Get over it.

  290. Carl Craven says:

    like we haven’t heard that one before.

  291. Harshad says:

    +1, great race by Hulk certainly the driver of the race.

    I watched the first stint really, then switched off as I had other things to do, and when I saw this result; I shook my head in disbelief!

    i.e How come Kimi finished P2,ahead of Grosjean and only 4 secs behind Vettel. Also, I expected Hamilton/Alonso in 4th, but it was Hulk!!! Stellar performance that from Hulk and Kimi. But I guess Hulk was better, for the fact that he kept both the former WDC at bay almost the entire race.

  292. tifosi says:

    Can anyone imagine Senna having to drive on these tires? He would have been so furious…

  293. Grant H says:

    Fair comments, though i think they could have done with maybe a few mph extra down the straight at the expense of a little downforce, in qually merc were fastest in s2 which is all downforce and in the race it did not appear to give any real advantage – your right it is all a compromise

  294. All revved-up says:

    Martin – looks to me like Sauber’s coanda exhaust is generating the type of 50km/h downforce as Red Bull – allowing Hulk to put the power down early out of turn 2.

    That early acceleration puts him out of Hamilton’s DRS reach.

    It’s great that a low budget smart team can master certain aspects of car design better than the bigger budget teams.

    What do you think?

  295. Grant H says:

    You missed my point, vet has the same tyres as everyone, during schu’s ferrari era where there was different tyre suppliers it was speculated that he had tyres better than the rest of the grid, this is why a tyre war would be a bad way to go,

    Tyres play too big a role in determining performance

    Vet’s dominance is different, he has had the best package for the last 4 years

    Imagine a situation where you had the wrong tyre supplier, it wouldnt matter how good your car was you still wouldnt win

  296. Andrew M says:

    Wow. Just wow.

    (and even though your point is ridiculous I think it’s fair to say most people in South Korea are pretty happy they’re not a poverty-and-famine stricken dictatorship).

  297. Andrew M says:

    Saying “they’re unequipped to run a GP properly” (a point I agree with after the fire stuck incident) and “They are a bunch of confused badly organized people. Its a terrible place.” are two totally different things. Making a link between poor organisation of a Formula 1 race and trying to turn that into a comment about an entire nation’s populace is flat out ridiculous.

  298. Quade says:

    Sending the fire truck on track was a single persons decision, not the entire Korea’s.

  299. Andrew M says:

    So you’re saying that if your country held a GP and they did a poor job, then this is an innate reflection of your character? I’m British, and when a nutcase ran onto the track in 2003 I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a huge amount of national soul-searching as to how we as a nation let this happen.

    “It is a terrible place that no one likes to go there, that is from the horses mouth. No one enjoys being there.”

    Please enlighten me as to how you arrived at this conclusion. I’d be fascinated to hear your evidence.

  300. All revved-up says:

    Kart race – you are very rude to the Korean people.

    Constructive criticism so that we all improve, should always be appreciated. Sheer rudeness against people of a country, some of whom may or may not even be aware of F1, and some of whom who have lost loved ones in the Korean war, should not be tolerated in a civil minded forum.

    If this forum starts to degenerate to a collection of rude broad brushed commentary – the civil minded amongst us will need to find another forum.

    “We assumed they would send out the car that was in turn 3, because that’s where the burning Red Bull was,” Whiting told Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport.

    “It wouldn’t even have had to go on the track,” added the Briton. “But for some reason they sent the car that was in turn 2.

    “I would say it was a classic misunderstanding,” Whiting said.

    “When I saw the car on the screen, I immediately deployed the safety car,” he explained. “Not because of the fire, but because of the car.”

    Because it was more a ‘misunderstanding’ than a grave error, and because the marshals acted correctly in warning drivers with white flags, the Korean race promoters will not be penalised by the FIA.

    Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali said the mistake was excusable.

    “As this is their only race per year, they are probably just missing some experience,” he said.

    And Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said he excuses the mistake altogether.

    “I was actually relieved that a fire extinguisher was finally on the way to our car,” he said. “It seemed to be burning for an age.”

  301. Andrew M says:

    I’m not denying that the organisers made mistakes, and I’m not a particularly big fan of the race. However, saying that the fact their grand prix has made some mistakes is a symptom of the entire nation of South Korea being “a bunch of confused badly organized people” is just laughable.

    Tell you what, if you can link me to one piece of evidence that a driver has criticised the food in Korea I’ll drop this right now.

  302. James Allen says:

    He was told his previous set had been right on the limit after 20 laps,”Nothing left” according to his engineer.

    So a 24 lap stint at the end would need managing. Grosjean pitted at the same time and so it was not inconceivable that he could challenge at the end, as Vettel would be running out of tyres. When 1. the second safety car came out and 2. Grosjean lost the position to Raikkonen it ended the possibility.

  303. Rob Newman says:

    I think you have a point. Vettel’s right front or whatever was gone but still he did several fastest laps at the end. And all of this with a slower pace than he could have actually gone. He was clearly managing the tyres and the pace. If the race was 60 laps, he could have still managed with those tyres without setting purple sectors.

    Contrast this with how Hamilton and Alonso thrashed their tyres in the first stint.

  304. Maybet says:

    James, this is the TR message on Romain’s garage where he keep complaining about tire deg despite pitted on the same lap as Vettel. So much for Lotus’ tire advantage huh..??

    “GRO, “I’m stuck behind Kimi”, told to use DRS
    12:27pm – 6 Oct 13

    Grosjean told he can race Raikkonen. #F1
    12:29pm – 6 Oct 13

    GRO, “Impossible to overtake him on my Front tyres”
    12:29pm – 6 Oct 13

    GRO, “I’m stuck behind Kimi, cannot overtake him” Re:”OK, if we want P2, need to overtake him”
    12:31pm – 6 Oct 13

    GRO also informed his tyre deg “is better than Kimi”
    12:31pm – 6 Oct 13

    Eric B,”Romain, keep racing like it is”
    12:38pm – 6 Oct 13

    “Romain, you are quicker than Kimi, you will pass him” GRO, “No, I cannot, I too much degradation”
    12:39pm – 6 Oct 13

    “OK, Kimi, Romain will probably have DRS this lap”
    12:44pm – 6 Oct 13

    To GRO, “We’ll talk about this later, but big ******* smile on the podium, big ******* smile on the podium”
    12:55pm – 6 Oct 13

    Kimi, “Yeah, definitely wasn’t the best car to drive with the choices we made”
    12:56pm – 6 Oct 13

  305. Tim says:

    The Korean GP is in a sad spot. It’s a good track caught in tragic circumstances. And with global economics in a state it’s in right now, the outlook is not promising. I was happy to see some crowd showed up fort he race. In the Friday practice, it looked like there were more people in the paddock than there were in the stands. Reminds me a little of Turkey. That was a great track too, finally just no support.

  306. KARTRACE says:

    No matter how ridiculous the point is ( in your view) they have no idea how to run GP properly, woow. That is the point. They must stay happy, that’s their problem and a I am happy for them to. However dispatching the fire truck onto the race track while the race is still on was to dreadful.

  307. Sebee says:

    Haven’t they been?

    Remember, Vettel’s view from the top is much clearer then the 720p view we get. ;-)

  308. James Allen says:

    I don’t think the truck thing would jeopardise the race as that is a commercial matter. It sounds like they keep paying BE the money, so the race will be on in April, as far as I hear.

  309. James Allen says:

    Safety car is horrendously complicated and this way at least it’s not unfair to some and not others.

    It’s bad luck if you just pitted but that’s life. I think it spoiled the finale again today

  310. James Allen says:

    Dead right about your first point. Vettel and Raikkonen both perfect examples of that today

  311. Rob Newman says:

    I agree with your final point.

  312. Rishi says:

    Yes hopefully he can keep building on this because all’s told it was a strong performance overall and a deserved podium for Grosjean.

    As I said, frustrating about the SC reducing the gaps but at the same time agreed that Grosjean can still learn lessons from Raikkonen’s racecraft and his ability to firmly grasp the opportunities that come his way, which he did today.

  313. Steve James says:

    Dean, Ferrari want the strongest possible lineup. That’s Alonso & Raikkonen. Ferrari could have replaced Massa with Hulkenberg, instead they chose Raikkonen. Why? Because they believe that Alonso and Raikkonen are the two best drivers on the grid, certainly 2 of the best 4 along with Vettel and Hamilton. Give it a rest with the incessant Alonso bashing, it makes you look silly.

  314. KARTRACE says:

    I see a massive talent here. You could make a couple a bobs. Start writing and selling this Science fiction… if you find someone who would be prepared to spend money on this new Alice in the wonderland.

  315. Benalf says:

    … wake up, you were dreaming out loud!

  316. KARTRACE says:


  317. KARTRACE says:

    Must be we are watching different races ?

  318. James Allen says:

    He’s frustrated. But he’s not been battling for 5th all season and neither has Alonso. Both have won races.

    Vettel/Red Bull have made a huge step and Lotus has had a strong pair of races.

  319. Rob Newman says:

    Vettel sat down with his engineers on Friday night, went through the data and improved the car on Saturday. Hamilton was so happy with his Friday setup, he went to chill out. The rest is history.

    After qualifying, Ross Brawn said their were problem with Rosberg’s car but nothing wrong with Hamilton’s. In my opinion, he got his car setup wrong whereas the Hulkster got it spot on.

  320. ffcunha says:

    There´s other good drivers down the road and they are not driving a Mercedes or a Ferrari. So if he is unhappy fighting for 5 place he should do a better job.

  321. Heinz says:

    Yes. “Here is your number 3 cap old matey”

  322. AlexD says:

    You only know part of the Message….Grosjean was begging them to let him pass Kimi without racing and they said NO, you race. Do not take it out of the context.

  323. CYeo says:

    When the fire truck was on track and Vettel’s car approaching in the distance, I had the distinct impression the race had suddenly morphed into a Michael Bay Transformer movie shoot.

  324. KARTRACE says:

    Do you perhaps know how many sets of tires are allocated per race weekend per driver/ team ?

    To make it “safe” with those rubbish tires they would have to pit every 5-6 laps which would make 8-9 pit stops in the race alone and some 32-36 wheels x 2 per team which I doubt even Red Bull got that many.

  325. Rob Newman says:

    He was simply jumping into Alonso bandwagon. Drivers should by now know that those tyres were produced as requested by the teams and Bernie to spice up the sports. Pirelli have produced exactly what was asked from them. if the drivers can’t manage/master them, then they might as well look for some other sport which will give them 100% durability.

  326. Harshad says:

    hahahaha nice one

  327. KARTRACE says:

    I believe that Perez , must be, find very amusing to lock up wheels and then observe that smoke, that smoke. It makes him very happy, the smoke, much the same with other GP drivers, they enjoy smoking their rubber. It’s a new fashion in fact. It’s Pirelli specialty, smoldering rubber. I am closely following F1 since 1964 and have never seen/heard so much rubbish coming from a tire company and head people. Before and after ABS brakes era in F1 drivers were locking up for various reasons but could not recall not even one case that locking up lead to blow out, correct me if I am wrong. Of course I am excluding races since Pirelli took over. Come on guys get the grasp with reality.

  328. Quade says:

    People actually think tyres should melt because a driver has abused the brakes? Well, that’s just rubbish by the bucket load.

    Ever seen an F1 car do donuts? Seen the amount of smoke generated? Yet, no blowouts? Wonder why?

    That said, I can bet that any driver stupid enough to attempt donuts on the wretched Pirelli’s is on suicide watch. Death by donut, a Pirelli invention!

  329. Rob Newman says:

    Thank God Webber is driving for Red Bull. Otherwise, he would say Vettel is always winning because he is driving an Adrian Newey car!!

  330. RC says:

    Two points:

    1. SV is the only team mate that MW has ever lost to, in his 12 seasons of f1.

    2. MW has 9 wins in his 7 seasons of driving Adrian Newey designed (!) cars, while SV will likely have 9 wins just in one season.

  331. Marsh says:

    B) Vettel is a decent driver in a killer machine.

    Give that machine to Alonso, Kimi, or Hamilton and they will wipe the floor with Vettel. Vettel could be a great driver, but as it is, his achievements are being devalued by the sheer power of the machine. The excitement which defines any great sport is always happening behind him as he runs into the distance untouched. Great moments in sports are always remembered, defined by intensity of the challenge. Hulkenberg, Hamilton, Alonso battle for 4th place. Such battles are not easily forgotten.

    The other teams need to seriously get their act together to compete. They need to work hard to find to find an antidote to the Newey led beast of a machine.

    It is good Webber is throwing in the towel. It’ll be good for his sanity. He is one person who could have prevented the situation we have on our hands today. I’m afraid he will end up becoming a footnote in F1 history.

  332. anon says:

    Virtually all of Barrichello’s wins came at the end of the season when the drivers championship had been wrapped up. He didn’t even win in 2001 despite the 2001 Ferrari being the best car on the grid. He legitimately won 4 while a teammate of Schumacher.

  333. sorry but you are wrong with your stats there,

    webber won sepang but was cheated out of the top step. multi 21…remember.

  334. Elie says:

    Ain’t exactly the same car is it.. It blows up every second race, has gremlins in the gearbox / KERS and when it’s ok Webber sticks it along side him on the front row only a few hundredths off.. So the old bloke does ok sure he’s no Seb but if he can be whiskers off him in Quali – then for f/sake-it’s the Car!!

  335. Paige says:

    I think Webber has lost a lot of motivation for F1. He himself has said this. I think when he got his first wins in 2009 when he finally had a competitive car, he was reasonably competitive with Vettel. In 2010, he almost won the championship and had the measure of Vettel several times. I think after he lost the championship that year, it hit him hard. After 2010, he hasn’t been the same. He’s been quick at times, but not on his 2010 form. He’s had problems with tires and car setup, but maybe he didn’t have the same focus that he had in 2010 when he was getting the car set up to his liking and was doing great things with it. He also said in his later years that he was tiring of the grind of F1.

    I think with him, we see a driver who has really just had enough with F1 and is looking forward to a new chapter in sportscars. It would have been interesting to see what the Mark Webber who was qualifying Jaguars on the front row in his early years would have been able to do with a car like he has now.

    Nevertheless, Mark Webber is a great driver, and he is a quality measuring stick for Vettel. That Vettel has beaten him the last few years speaks a lot about his ability, I think.

  336. Sue says:

    And didn’t I hear a huge proportion of the fans at Korea were from Japan as it’s much cheaper than the Japanese race?

  337. Me says:

    …or, you’re wearing Hamilton/Alonso tinted glasses…

  338. Thompson says:

    Lol….. I hear you.

    Credit were its due, Hulkingburg did a great job today.

    As for Rosberg/Hamilton – Rosberg is becoming invisable and was over 5sec behind Hamilton, while Hamilton is pushing to stay in contention and should have been brought in some 15secs plus earlier Rosbergs over take was not on merit but poor team management.

    the extra lap costing even more time for Hamilton and 2 places – tyre management v racing lets hope merc don’t lose their way on the pit wall.

    they have the car.

    Mercs calls were poor today for Hamilton

  339. justafan says:

    Lotus don’t have drivers that can qualify well. That’s their biggest weakness.

  340. Elie says:

    That’s rich given Grosjean qualified 4th ahead of 1 Merc and 2 Ferraris. Many times Kimi and Romain have qualified 2-5 this year, but like I said- it’s a very delicate balance between setting up for sat and ensuring you are strong on Sunday- just ask Fernando Alonso- Im sure he will concur. Kimis long run pace on Friday was terrific– I knew he would end up on the podium one way or another because he had the pace over everyone except Seb..that’s just plain smart…I tell people but they just think Kimis not so good.. They forget he was one of the best qualifiers ever and you don’t just loose that much unless you have a plan.Hes a lot shrewder than many here will ever know..and he proved it again on Sunday

  341. Rob Newman says:

    He will get hold of a tyre, cut it into two and find out exactly what the compound is and how it will work. Believe me, this is what exactly he did!

  342. justafan says:

    There have been multiple team orders for Grosjean to move over for his team mate. Would have been nice to give back a little bit of this.

  343. Sujith says:

    + 1

    “Hulkenberg showed him the way today: Champions/top drivers go wheel to wheel without contact, with great racing instinct”

    So true

  344. Rob Newman says:

    You are not getting my point. Hamilton claims he is this and he is that. His latest claim being that he and Alonso belongs to some elite group where they should be at the front. I am not a Vettel [mod] not Hamilton [mod]. I say things the way I see them.

    Besides, I don’t think there was much difference in grip on Hamilton’s and Grosjean’s tyres as they had done the same mileage on lap 1. Hamilton was on the race line whereas Grosjean took a different line when overtaking.

  345. Aaron Noronha says:

    You are perhaps amongst the very few people i have come across on this forum who Knows what they are talking about (Y)

  346. John S says:

    Yes, let’s break out science fiction. Let’s put Hamilton in a Red Bull, let’s see how many passes he can make with a clear straight line disadvantage over the years. Which is something many were quick to point out in Hamiltons defense when Vettel trounced him past Eau Rouge at this year.

    With inconsistencies like that it isn’t exactly a stretch to think the excuses will never stop.

  347. H.Guderian says:

    Seems to me that RBR does not want VET facing anyone, right? They had the opportunity to hire ALO and refused. VET could easily have a seat at Ferrari next year (and face ALO). He refused despite his “dream” to drive for them. So, what you are saying is pure non sense.

  348. Sebee says:

    I was recommending he go iVettel for 4, but it would be too Apple and Roman.

  349. Equin0x says:

    Acrually Vettel’s Ferrari move was veto’d by Alonso, who is scared to go up against Vettel Hamilton and Raikkonen, not to mention Hulkenberg and even Button, Alonso has nowhere to hide.

  350. Monza01 says:

    Remember Ferrari said Hulkenberg wasn’t experienced enough for them to take him !

    McLaren took Perez over Hulkenberg presumably because of the Mexican sponsorship they had secured.

    He should easily have been in a top team this year rather than Sauber.

    The options available to him throughout his F1 career have clearly not been commensurate with his ability.

    Even Williams sacked him in favour of Maldonado because of the availability of Venuzualan cash !

  351. Monza01 says:

    How can you leave Hamilton out of your list ?

    Most experienced F1 Journo’s think he’s the fastest over a single lap and, like Alonso and Schumacher, he’s a past master at overcoming car problems and achieving a result.

  352. H.Guderian says:

    YES!!! He is already hired by the fire dept for 2014…. 8-0

  353. trev says:

    was a bit slow in getting the jinxed bit…

  354. hero_was_senna says:

    Nice to be remembered.
    Although my favourites are Senna and Ferrari I am unbiased enough to be critical of both as well as a supporter.
    You, Rob , have never displayed that attribute, it is always and I repeat ALWAYS twisted in any possible manner to put Alonso’s abilities on a par with US cops!

    I can’t speak for others but it’s somewhat tiresome.

  355. KRB says:

    It is truly tiresome. There’s a certain bumpkin brigade on here who make me wonder how they navigate day-to-day life!

    I have no problem with people supporting Vettel or any other driver, and saying Vettel or whomever is in their opinion better than Hamilton or Alonso. But resorting to outlandish comments amounts to self-selection to the “F1 idiot fan club”.

    It would also be nice if people supported drivers b/c they were fans of his, rather than as using the driver just as their anti-Hamilton or anti-Alonso vehicle.

  356. Monza01 says:

    I’m not at all sure you are right about the Perez tyre incident.

    We were told on Sky that, when examined, the carcase had a hole right through it which was probably caused by a long lock up under braking.

    If this is the case, and the team had no evidence of a problem through loss of pressure or vibration, then it was just bad luck.

    As others have said, the tyres are exactly what F1 asked for. It’s ridiculous and does Pirelli’s reputation no good but that’s just the way it is.

    Glad the P Zeros on my Audi A5 Quattro last more than 30 miles !!!!!!!!!!!

  357. paul murray says:

    only one who lost out was KR he was on his last set of tyres. SV gained by stopping under the SC otherwise KR might have won

  358. anon says:

    He wasn’t an outright P3, it was because he pitted later. He came back out stuck behind Alonso again.

    Then he pitted early the second time and the safety car soon came out. Very fortunate. Then benefited again from the next safety car. He went from 10th to 3rd in the space of 3 laps.

  359. Brad says:

    Shame, your guy Alonso not winning anymore…

  360. James Allen says:

    Grosjean P4 yesterday???

  361. MelB says:

    If you don’t watch next year you won’t notice any changes…

  362. Simmo says:

    The tyres have got to survive a long lock-up, because it’s part of an F1 car’s nature to do so.

    The tyres are not what F1 asked for. F1 asked for interesting racing (which I fully agree is good, and is not Pirelli’s fault), but they have taken it much further than they should have, and have messed it up.

  363. Quade says:

    I wouldn’t have Pirelli’s on any car close to me after this years farce.
    A thousand excuses about how they are delivering what was asked of them just doesn’t hold and will always come up on the lame side. Especially as Bernnie made it quite clear that Pirelli went off on a tangent and produced tyres that were not asked for; and the FIA dumped the first set in the trash can for safety reasons.

  364. i read a comment from hembery that said something along the lines of, ‘perez had already done 21 laps on a tyre that was designed to max out at 20 laps!!! can you imagine that? a driver tries to get an extra 5% distance on a tyre. i mean what sort of rubbish is that?

    a driver misses his pit for one lap and he is then driving in a minefield, that is simply unacceptable and pirelli should be sanctioned for dangerous practices. i stand i005 behind the comments made by the drivers.

  365. the pirellis on my A5 are working better than perez’s……thankfully.

  366. Antti says:

    Whenever there has been an order for Grosjean to let Kimi pass him (which has happened just a couple of times within the past two years), there’s been a very good reason: Kimi has many more points and fights for the WDC. Is Grosjean in that situation? No. Was there any other reason to give a team order besides making Grosjean happy? No. In the long run, this is better for Romain, I bet he learned not to make mistakes that let his team mate pass him.

  367. Harshad says:

    And for what? how can any team possibly ask a driver who is nearly 70 points ahead of the other to just move over!
    Lotus did the right thing.

  368. Andrew M says:

    You really think Kimi’s going to listen to team orders from a team that (a) he’s leaving and (b) haven’t paid him all year?

  369. Elie says:

    After Kimi passed Grosjean:- actual Radio
    Eric Boullier :-” you can pass him , go for..”radio fades
    Grosjean :- “No I can’t”.. He’s too radio fades..

    It is absolutely ridiculous that Grosjean would even ask for team orders when ;-
    A) He was beaten fairly and Kimi was pulling away (1.4sec)
    B) He was no chance of catching Sebastian
    C) He has less than half the points

    He now comes across as a looser and a Sook- he has still very much to learn.

    That was really poor form by Grosjesn and Lotus have copped some flack from fans on Twitter .

    Only once this year was Grosjean slightly faster than Kimi but too far to catch Seb. Every other time- he had actually held Kimi up Twice- Germany + 1other when he had a genuine chance to attack the lead.

    Lotus need to pull their head in over this. Kimi is bringing home the bacon and until he goes it’s incredibly stupid and rude to do what their doing!!- all this and he has not even been paid!!

    Makes his decision to leave a very, very wise one me thinks !

  370. gpfan says:

    Been a while since I have marshalled. Back then, there were no Safety Cars in F1.

    But, waved white flags were for “slow moving vehicle on course”. This could mean anything, but was usually an ambulance. If it was a proper fire truck, odds are the race had been red-flagged by then.

    Funny thing? Back in the day, a red flag meant just that; stop. Now, they dawdle back to the paddock.

  371. Alec Tronnach says:

    White flag means “Slow Vehicle” …. Could be Ambo, Fire, doctor or other service vehicle and can also warn of a Race car travelling slowly, perhaps limping back to the pits.

  372. Stephen Taylor says:

    2015 perhaps? You never know what will happen in the driver market despite what contracts say.

  373. John T says:

    I think you’re reading too much into my comment.

  374. Sebee says:

    I’m not trying to stir Alexander.

    Vettel had his ballsy comment, then Alonso was tire-d, now Lewis is better than that. All champions have their moments. :-)

  375. Rishi says:

    Good analysis Harshad. True that Raikkonen had already gained several places before the Safety Car and put himself in that position to attack, particularly with the early 2nd pitstop. So it was still a really good drive whatever happened but without the SC it would probably have been to P3 or maybe even P4 (if Rosberg hadn’t had the wing failure) rather than P2.

    Also good points regarding Grosjean’s season overall and particularly agree with your third paragraph; the top guys are so sharp they will pounce on the slightest error or hesitation in racecraft and it therefore highlights the level the likes of Grosjean and Hulkenberg have to be at to challenge for the major positions (Nico did this very well today) on a consistent basis. Admittedly Grosjean has had an up-and-down season and in that context losing one position after the SC to Kimi in Korea is not a big deal and a podium is still a strong result from a strong drive.

    It’s true that at times when Raikkonen has struggled or had problems (e.g. Spa and Monza) Romain has not perhaps taken full advantage (though am not sure how competitive Lotus were at Monza particularly) but I guess it reinforces that it’d be nice if he was able to beat a team-mate as strong as Raikkonen when he has performed strongly and it was a bit frustrating today that the SC didn’t help with that goal.

  376. Basil says:

    I second that, the race was brilliant and I’m glad I stayed in order to watch it.

  377. dean cassady says:

    Uhh… I don’t know.
    There was more to the changing of the tire spec than Red Bull’s targeted criticism, dont’cha think?
    Alonso lost it publically! Again.
    What is with all of this whining and complaining, all the time?!?
    Yes, changing of the tire specification in the middle of the season, is incredible, and no getting around it, it seems very ‘wrong’.
    But that is no justification for, yet another, hissy-fit! That what it is, a hissy-fit. It’s not even worth printing, but… wait a minute, it is Alonso.
    Alonso’s credibility with me is descending, and accelerating.
    Is it unfair in Formula One?
    If you don’t know the answer to that one, well… then again, it is Alonso. He MUST know.
    I’d loved that first championship for Alonso at Renault; of course, it was the MS era, and things often seemed stacked (special Schumy-spec tires?!?), but the Renault, if I am not mistaken, had the wider V, and probably something damping the shock in the nose, and in Alonso’s hands, did things that no other car could do; it was good; he fought hard and won.
    But the complaining at Ferrari is no good; it’s way to loud and seems very petty and predicatable.
    I am hoping that this story, about… it’s very nearly too incredible to believe, for me, that Alonso has anything directly to do with the negative crowd demonstrations against Vettel.
    I’m not sold on it.
    But that doesn’t matter; everyone is frustrated; the complaining only makes the complainers seem the petulant ones.

  378. Yak says:

    No they didn’t. RBR (and other teams) complained about the tyres, but Pirelli couldn’t do anything without every team agreeing on a change. It was only after the Silverstone drama that Pirelli were able to make a change. A race after which even Alonso said something needed to be done.

    Mind you, Vettel was already leading the championship at that point.

    The difference is, back then even Pirelli weren’t happy with the tyres. They saw the high degradation in Spain, and even they said it was too much. Now they’re happy with the changes they’ve been allowed to make and they’ve had some testing time, and anyone who disagrees with the tyres can stick it. The misguided thing about his comment is that if one were to ask Vettel about the tyres, I’m fairly sure his preference would be for more durable tyres that let him just go for it. Alonso was far from being the only one with tyre problems at this race, just that he was the one who had a go at Pirelli about it. But we heard a few times on the radio, including to Vettel, reports of the previous set of tyres having been right at the end of their life.

  379. Harshad says:

    Pirelli themselves wanted to change the tyres,before the Silverstone fiasco, but teams like Ferrari,Lotus,Force India denied it!

    And it wasn’t RBR moaning about it, there were all other teams except the above three, which were complaining.

  380. KRB says:

    Hamilton lost 2 seconds behind Rosberg that lap. Didn’t matter in the end with the Safety Car, but it wasn’t the right call for the team to make. Nico should’ve known himself, but it’s clear (from previous situations) that he won’t yield in these situations until ordered to.

    It would be like Lewis doing a defensive move on the straight when he was 2 secs/lap slower than Rosberg … a stupid move for him if he did it, and stupid if the team hadn’t told him before then to not hold Rosberg up in anyway.

  381. KRB says:

    You talk as though you were there in the room when they were deciding on setup. You sound foolish.

  382. KRB says:

    Rosberg had the slow nose change, but then closed up to Hamilton b/c of the safety car. Not hard to see!

  383. KRB says:


    This was a dull victory by Seb … it was another grand chelem (though that was very close … seemed to me Webber passed the start-finish line in the pits before Vettel).

    Germany would have to go down as the least-dull Vettel victory this year.

  384. anon says:

    Malaysia was an exciting race. Two teammates battling wheel to wheel.

  385. All revved-up says:

    Me too!

    I was thinking “no one, not even Bernie or Charlie Whiting tells the Korean Health and Safety boys what to do”.

    Good on them – doing their job, had Webber been stuck in the burning car, we would all have been glad the fire truck got there 15 seconds earlier.

    But it was quite hilarious.

  386. anon says:

    Alonso ailing? He’s 32. Should be at the top of his game.

    Hulkenberg with inferior machinery beat Alonso fair and square. It was one of the great drivers to keep a double world champion behind him for about 50 laps in an era of DRS.

  387. Quade says:

    …He would have finished in the pit lane or maybe North Korea.
    However, he finished 5th.

  388. Quade says:

    Is Button a top driver? Does Hamilton lack race craft? Is Alonso a poor qualifier?

    Easy to answer:
    1. NO!
    2. NO!
    3. NO!

  389. Quade says:

    kenneth chapman
    ‘Couldn’t agree more.

  390. Mike J says:

    I agree being an old timer like you!. They play with the rules so much they forget where they started from which made it successful in the first place.

  391. Elie says:

    Exactly – Pirelli are part of Bernies engineered entertainment garbage. This is why the FIA now want control over the tender for tyres.! The embarrassment to the “sport” is beyond ridiculous.

    I think Michelin will be in by 2015.

  392. KARTRACE says:

    GP event is a part of that nations ability. So if that nation elects the worst amongst them selves to run such a huge international event for sure it is a question for that nation to answer, not for us. It is a terrible place that no one likes to go there, that is from the horses mouth. No one enjoys being there.Maybe they should’ve stayed building, Samsung’s, LG’s, KIA’s, Hyundai’s… GP is clearly not for them.

  393. KARTRACE says:

    Yes you are right F1 is risky business, but last couple a seasons turned into a proper Russian roulette thanks to the rubber. Already said here the problem is that the life of those Pirellis was in Korea a max of 5 laps. That’s not racing, but pit stop competition. Ridiculous.

  394. Quade says:

    If we hadn’t seen Red Bull cannibalise Webbers car to make spare parts for Vettels, we would all be deceived that Webber too drives an Adrian Newey designed car. He doesn’t, he drives a spare parts wheel barrow and I fear, so will Riccardo.

  395. Yak says:

    I think it’s also down to it being Korea. I suspect we’re not going to hear much of it in Japan either, and any foreigners who decide to give it a shot probably won’t be thought of too highly by the locals.

    I think we can give Brundle and Croft a bit of a break on this one. Stuff was goin’ on left, right ‘n’ centre.

  396. David C says:

    I just think its a bit unfare that everytime SV wins Newey is mentioned as if to diminish SVs achievement but this is not done with any other driver. Ferrari had the vest car at spain this year but nobody mentioned any designer. Maybe it would be good if designers stood on the podium alomg with the drivers but it should be the same for everyone.

  397. John T says:

    What are the first 3 words of my original comment?
    I then said “Credit to…” basically the team. Last time I checked, it’s a team sport. So please don’t misquote people and then get all huffy when the person tries to politely make that point.
    I’m no fan of Vettel but I think a lot of the comments regarding him are disingenous.

  398. Paige says:


    Hamilton is always picked apart and criticized after he wins or gives a performance of any kind, good or bad.

    Hamilton and Vettel are probably the two most hated drivers in F1. It may have something to do with the fact that they are the quickest.

  399. David C says:

    I think Grosjean thought he could have a craic at Seb and thats why he asked Kimi to move over as Kimi had much older tyres than Grosjean.

  400. Elie says:

    Grosjean was told to pass Kimi on track and he couldn’t do it.. He said so on the radio.. He was crying like a baby..And so many people are still dreaming he could catch Seb 4.2 sec up the road… Yeah good luck with that.

  401. F1Observer says:

    ‘Give that machine to Alonso, Kimi, or Hamilton and they will wipe the floor with Vettel.’

    How do you know?

  402. F1Observer says:

    1. JB is WDC. No Need to say more.
    2. Ham = 22 wins, compare this to Alo = 32 save Vet = 34
    3. Alo = 22 poles, compare this to Ham = 31 save Vet = 42

  403. Andrew M says:

    “Didn’t Hamilton lose the place to Hulkenberg after the re-start? Wasn’t he ahead of him during the safety car period but lost out to Hulk on the second long straight?”

    I’m not James but I just watched the highlights and yes, Hamilton got passed by Hulk at the restart.

  404. Macca Man says:

    [mod] No driver on the grid has pushed Vettel more than Alonso. Alonso took Vettel to the final flag in 2010 & 2012 losing by 4 & 3 points in a clearly inferior car. Alonso will be racing for Ferrari in 2014. Most likely in 2015 & 2016 too. It was a fine 4th place for Hulk but it doesn’t make Ferrari or anyone with a brain in their head forget the 3 consecutive 2nds at that Alonso had coming into Korea.

  405. CYeo says:

    Perhaps Flavio’s?

  406. anon says:

    Because cars are suited to different tracks and conditions.

    Up until Spa the Red Bull had only been quickest in two races (Bahrain and Montreal).

  407. Glennb says:

    Traction Control was more beneficial on the streets of Singapore. The Korean track less so. Front tyre graining also contributed to Seb’s less than normal domination. Add to that all the grown men crying when he wipes the floor with the opposition. You can easily see why the team wanted him to win by a gentlemans margin ;)

  408. anon says:

    “Remember when Red Bull owner Mateschitz claimed that tyres were destroying F1. Correction, Red Bull are destroying F1 with their manipulation of Pirelli & whoever will listen. ”

    The tyres were changed because drivers were nearly injured/killed by tyres exploding at 200 mph.

    And for all the moaning by the likes of Lotus, they actually benefited from the change of tyres in the subsequent race at the Nurburgring.

  409. Me says:

    “Red Bull & Vettel are happy with their worthless fourth titles. I’ve had enough, I’m not watching F1 anymore…”

    Typical Alonso/Hamilton disciple/fanatic…

    Toys, pram interface issues.

  410. Aaron Noronha says:

    Hamilton is out of contention for the WDC and both Rosberg and Hamilton were fighting for position so issuing order although completely legal would be down right wrong and controversial. It would only bring Mercedes and Hamilton bad press. Like i already said they were both racing each other and Rosberg had position, and enough speed even with a damaged wing to protect and maintain his position. All Hamilton had to do was retake the position and pit first and force Rosberg to queue up behind him but he couldnt do anything because he had no life on his tyres left.

    You are allowed to make a defensive move on the straight even if you are 2 sec slower or 4 seconds slower just as long as you make it only once and then don’t move across to defend again failing with you will be hit with a penalty.

  411. KRB says:

    Thanks for the defensive driving, I’m well aware what’s allowed, and what isn’t (e.g. Grosjean’s multi-move isn’t, but wasn’t sanctioned).

    It wouldn’t be wrong to issue team orders at all! They should’ve (and I’m sure they did) tell Hamilton to let Rosberg thru with little fuss, but after the nose failure they should’ve told Rosberg “your front wing has failed; box this lap; let Lewis through”. Lewis would have been told to stay out an extra lap to allow the team to service Nico first.

    You’re right, they are both out of WDC contention, so the only thing they need to concern themselves about is bringing home the best points haul for the team, b/c it’s nosecone-and-nosecone between Merc and Ferrari right now for 2nd.

  412. Sebee says:


    Where do you rate Webber then? 2 notches below earth worm? You didn’t give thought to what you wrote before you wrote it perhaps?

    And it’s not fair becaise the RBR is good? Is this F1 or JK crayon drawing? He has all of Mercedes and 1/2 of McLaren working for him. What he is really saying then is that his team and a half can’t build him a better car? Oh….now I understand. :-)

  413. Quade says:

    Webber is probably a better driver than Vettel.
    Tell me how you’d perform if when something broke on your teammates car, your team simply reached for the spanners, strolled over to your car, loosened the required item from it and bolted it unto your teammates? Tell me.
    Traction control style noises were heard from Vettels car in Singapore, but not from Webbers because they are driving different machines (which is why Webber has all the “bad luck.”
    There’s no need to slate the oppressed, statistics and raw observation don’t lie.

    It is not fair because an untalented driver who would do things like run into bollards (as well as other cars) when behind the safety car and crash into backmarkers he is overtaking is winning WDC’s, flattered by vastly superior machinery.

  414. Harshad says:

    Why don’t you throw in your resume for RBR seat? I’ll cheer for you as new world champ!!

  415. MelB says:

    Put a monkey in it and it will become World Chimp.

  416. Tealeaf says:

    Webber probably better driver than Vettel? Omg I’ve heard it all now… there couldn’t be a clearer team mate battle over the last 4years than the pasting Vettel has given Webber.

  417. Sebee says:



    I think it’s time to start a Thesaurus entry for words that describe 4 year team mate battle between Vettel and Webber! Pasting gets my vote to be one of top 3. :-)

  418. pirelli could always say ‘NO’ couldn’t they? what would the FIA / BE do then?

    surely the drivers should have the final say in all of this. ask them what they want. it is their lives,their future, their income, their status etc etc that is on the line.

    as webber said, it’s not the drivers it’s others who want to determine the outcome. totally wrong IMO.

  419. bearforce says:

    Yep. That is just it. No one knows how good The Hulk will be in a top car. He might be good or he might be brilliant.

    I really just cant wait to see him race the top drivers in a top tier car. Then again Hulk doesn’t look like he needs a top car to beat top drivers like Lewis and Alonso ( don’t get to upset I am just mucking around).

  420. that is just so wrong…drivers want to race and to do that they need decent tyres that last longer than 5 laps. the drivers really do need to flex their muscle and demand better tyres. what could the FIA do if faced with a total driver revolt? get rid of this pathetic DRS system at the same time.

  421. i simply don’t know how you can possibly make such an errant supposition re ricciardo. i have been a staunch supporter of webber long before he ever came to F1 and have championed him through thick and thin but to say that you doubt that ricciardo ‘will ever be as good’ is just simply a load of old garbanzos, IMO.

    you may well be right but at this stage you cannot make that assumption.

  422. Me says:

    Aw… bitter much?

  423. onviously it is pirellis fault. they managed to screw up everyones race, apart from vettel.

  424. I would have thought the climate and conditions were similar but I suppose with Singapore being a street track, but then again it would be reasonably green and as Korea is used very little its as green. The flow and layout seems similar too. Just surprised he didn’t pull away more.

  425. KRB says:

    Uhh, think you need to put Malaysia in there for sure, and they were equal best in Britain, Germany, and Hungary.

    Hungary is a race that Vettel should’ve won, but didn’t. But what’s the difference between winning 13 races in a season, rather than 14? Like Canada ’11, his mistake cost him that win, but he only lost points to one other driver that day. He can afford to let a few wins slip away, here and there.

  426. Mike J says:

    Finally a person with common sense and a good memory. MSc handed Rubens wins. It’s sad people have to denigrate drivers to bolster their own!

  427. Me says:

    “Already said here the problem is that the life of those Pirellis was in Korea a max of 5 laps.”

    You need to re-watch the race and see how many people did more than 5 laps on one set of tyres.

  428. KARTRACE says:

    Since you see things differently just put some light and facts on the table here. Otherwise you are to be considered just as a common spammer.

  429. Me says:


    How many people did more than five laps on one set of tyres?

    Count these drivers and you will have some facts.

    Where’s the problem?

  430. KARTRACE says:

    Yeah, how right you are. Perez did 21 banggggg laps, no grip at all running on super slick grip, hahahaha.

    I wasn’t talking how far one could take them before they go banzaiii !!!

  431. Me says:

    You said a max of 5 laps, if you want to be understood make your point clearer.

  432. KARTRACE says:

    Performance, we are talking here 750 BHP engines and cars that brake employing forces of 5G taking corners at 3 G. This is not product to be used in kindergarten. Your tire is drivers only contact with “terra firma”. If Alonso and other drivers are witnessing that tire performance drops over one lap then I would assume in the race condition 5 laps would be ample, to be generous. No matter what you trying to prove here, defend or what ?, they are proven as futile rubber components that are impeding racing ability and greatly endangering everyone involved. Drivers, Marshals, spectators and finally us viewers who have to watch and deal with that whole circus involving rubber. Didn’t you notice by now how much wrong publicity and attention Pirelli has won.

  433. Mike J says:

    It is getting standard this season. Results will show it is his worst season with RB in the last 5. However others here say that he is hopeless and shouldn’t be driving the car but fail to look at factors out of his control starting with the mclaren tech part in Melbourne to the engine detonation in Singapore and heaps in between. Cue, tea leaf, rob Newman, SteveS……
    Don’t get me wrong, seb is great but he is lucky with the partnership with RB and AN…and he has taken the bit between the teeth. But WEB has no luck.

  434. Me says:

    “If we hadn’t seen Red Bull cannibalise Webbers car to make spare parts for Vettels”

    We haven’t…

  435. Emanuel says:

    Rubbish, seriously do you really think that Mark and his scandal searching Manager would let that happen without creating a public meltdown. Webber’s team didn’t want the wing because they thought it didn’t work anyway. Newey wanted the wing in the race and Vettel’s team wasn’t sure if the new wing was better or not because it broke early on. Who won the race that weekend? Yes, but still this one indecent fueled by the media and jealous fans, still hunts Vettel with no fault to him. Get over yourself.

  436. Sebee says:

    Truth is Quade, RBR are allowed to apply the Stratos program data on Vettel’s car only. That’s why he’s so much faster. Felix would not share his data with Webber.

    If Webber is driving a spare parts wheel barrow than how is he keeping touch with Hamilton and Kimi in his carrier ending phase apparently “lacking motivation”, already mentally driving a Porsche, DNFs galore, etc. etc.

    Come on Quade. I won’t argue that Vettel is treated as #1 and Webber is treated as #2. But if Webber’s car can be a spare parts source as you claim, than those parts are top shelf stuff – good enough for Vettel after all, right?

  437. Quade says:

    Obviously, some of you guys are immune to the facts of history and deny that Webbers car is little more than a spare parts source for Vettels.
    Anyone remember how Vettel broke his front wing at Silverstone 2010 and Red Bull simply plucked the on Webbers car off as replacement?

    Facts! Facts!! And yet more Facts!!!

  438. Quade says:

    Also, in Singapore, we had several experts vow that they heard traction control type noises from Vettels car as well as observing traction control style acceleration from him too.
    There was no such thing from Webber, because he is driving a different crate.

  439. Sebee says:


    2010 Silverstone? Wing? They one they gave to Vettel because luck of the draw meant the mounting broke? The very same wing WITHOUT which Webber won the GP? Oh…that wing.

    What traction control type noises are you talking about? The ones discussed here in detail recently? The TC that’s not possible because McLaren standard ECUs don’t have the software?

    Are you talking about the same Webber that some here claim was hindering Vettel to the WDC last year @ Brazil even though he has was out of it? The same Webber that’s leaving F1, and has pints and gives rides to his best bud Alonso – who let’s remember is the movie star equivalent of DeCaprio in the 2007 Oscar Winner 007 flick “The Spygate”?

    Come on, delicate things are being managed here. And you’re a bit all over the place. Forgive my responses. I’m not trying to pick on you, just as I’ve said before – not black and white like you make it. All gray in fact.

  440. Quade says:

    Do you know anything about software? What makes you think the ECU is bullet proof?

    Of course your other questions do not negate the fact that a wing was taken of Webbers car in full view of the public and bolted on to Vettel’s. You might call it some other name, but in my book, that’s bias. Clear as daylight.

  441. Sebee says:

    Quade, now the ECU is being hacked by RBR?! Well, I’ll tell you what, if it is, and FIA isn’t catching it – well done RBR! Bravo.

    As for your continued wing-drama. Have you ever considered sport psychology angle on the wing issue? Maybe RBR did exactly what was needed to fire Webber up? Yes, I said it BBQ fans! After all, wing-less Webber did deliver P1 finish and was quite fired up if I remember right. You say bias, I say motivation to perform. Evidence and result would seem to support my view. Check and mate, mate.

  442. Quade says:

    Well evidence says RBR is doing things differently with the ECU. Earlier this season, they were the only team affected by KERS failures due to the ECU; so from my distant perch, their traction control secret in deeply entwined with hacking the signals between KERS and ECU.

    As for the sport psychology punt, that’s just grasping at ever thinner straws.

  443. Me says:

    “webber won sepang but was cheated out of the top step. multi 21…remember.”

    I don’t remember him winning, he finished second.

  444. L.B says:

    Rosberg’s overtake was on merit…he managed his tyres better and it’s not his fault Mercedes fumbled Hamilton’s strategy. This race highlighted the difference between the two drivers…Rosberg is happy with a 3rd/4th place finish while Hamilton really, really likes winning thus his mighty push from the start to keep up with the front-runners. He had opened up a pit-stop to Rosberg in 4th so they really should have brought him in and gambled on a safety car or nursing the tyres in the 3rd stint.

  445. Thompson says:

    Reading the board for the best part of this season you have to decide for yourself what you want to see in F1.

    Rosberg styled managing tyres or Hamilton pushing for the win.

    Hulkingburg did a great job but was racing for position. Hamilton and Alonso were racing to keep this championship alive.

    Poor calls from the pitwall cost Hamilton time, which Rosberg benifited from – that pitstop was wasted and position to kimi and the Hulk lost.

    With the title lost unless something chatastrophic happens over the last few races I know I’d rather see Hamilton/Alonso pushing like crazy any day of the week than Rosbergs tyre management.

    I like Rosberg but he is becomimg invisible. Did you not notice how much Hamiltons car was followed by the cameras – merc can charge a fortune for advertisement space on that car.

  446. Mike J says:

    Please outline what you reference is ‘to paying for what he did to his teammate and his team’ and then while you are at it outline what MW has done for both of them as well. it only makes sense to be fair and level for this comment as you obviously know more than everyone here.
    We all know about your Brazil 2012 and Silverstone 2011 issues. Fill in some other blank areas please.

  447. KARTRACE says:

    Look at the statements of drivers, teams and media, so there is you enlightment. They all say that overall atmosphere is to depressing, the food they do not enjoy and same goes for the accommodation.

    It is shameful that BE is keeping them at any cost on the calendar. There are so many other nations that would love to run GP, and to run it properly. At some stage he wanted to even cancel the most historic one. British GP ??!! In favor of the Mickey Mouse one. Sorry, I am now offending Mr. Mouse, the legend.

    The nut case that you mentioned wasn’t exactly given any duty by any authority, nor dispatching any trucks while live racing is on. So please do me a favor, do not count apples and pears.

    Korea already scored two serious incident in two years. Thank God there was no consequences.

  448. KARTRACE says:

    He was ordered not to.

  449. KARTRACE says:

    Right you are. Weber was a very, very, very lucky man yesterday, that’s for sure. If he only followed Perez more to the right that blown off tire like a belt could’ve taken his head right off. Remember that spring which nearly killed Massa weighed only couple hundreds of gram, vs. this one which was a couple of Kgs. I got frozen when saw what happen. Hembery is a very opportunistic, disrespectful lad… not to say something more appropriate.

  450. Elie says:

    Heaven above you guys are daft ..if a car has incredible traction out of corners and superior top speed doesn’t that mean that Sauber found something and set the car just right on Sunday–Anyway you look at Hulkenberg did a great job but even Guiterrez would have finished higher than 10th (maybe 8) without his tangles in the first lap.

    One minute certain drivers are great and the next minute they are too old..this is just the sort of people who point the finger without even knowing who punched them face

  451. Elie says:

    Intended for post 10- but your still one if the culprits.
    ’8th’ is suggested for Guiterrez

    Also Raikkonen was the fastest qualifier on earth when he first entered the sport till 2007 so your very wrong in general and. But to go further he’s just smarter at setting up a Lotus to be competitive on Sunday because that’s where the points are now

  452. anon says:

    Sauber didn’t have incredible traction. He had good top speed, but that hurt him in corners. Still, Alonso couldn’t pass with DRS open on one of the longest straights in F1.

    Massa had no trouble blowing past a Sauber. Hulkenberg is simply the last of the late brakers and drove flawlessly.

  453. JF says:

    Perhaps the drivers should also just take over all the rule making. May as well let them design the cars while they are at it.

  454. Kirk says:

    You are so wrong, no matter what you said, it is impossible to denied that Vettel is a good driver, always good drivers end in good cars, yes Hamilton is not wining, get over it for God sake! He got his chances, he has lost some and obtained others, he will have others if he is that good as he is young, don’t get frustrated, that’s just silly.

  455. Quade says:

    Tell me how I am wrong and if a monkey wouldn’t win in the Red Bull. Even Newey admitted that Vettel wasn’t great, even with three WDC’s and a fourth in the making.
    NASA sent a monkey into space before any human, but that didn’t make it a great astronaut.
    Today, Schumacher has all the F1 records, but that does not make him the greatest F1 driver (that’s for the likes of Senna, Fangio and Prost). The one boost for Schumacher is that he actually had brilliant race craft and awesome technical abilities, whereas Vettel just has a fast car and his team mates as spare parts trolley, something that’s killing the sport.

  456. Equin0x says:

    Even Newey admitted Vettel wasn’t great? Na actually Newey admits Seb is 1 of the all time greats and he is, your comments are just designed to stir the pot with no basis, Hamilton would lose to Vettel if he was driving that Redbull as well, Vettel > Webber > Rosberg > Hamilton.

  457. Sebee says:

    I thought it was the puncture. I read somewhere Webber being quoted as KERS being on fire.

  458. Kirk says:

    I also think it was a very entertained race with many battles, although a bit odd with that “truck safety car”, it’s just that people got frustrated because their driver is not wining which is normal, they tend to forget that there are more than 20 cars out there and in some cases they are battling not just for the victory but for points, which is good because there are teams that can’t win but can try to get as much as points and that is what could make races good, the tires issues should be solved next year, hope people then stop moaning.

  459. Dizzy says:

    “I think I’m done with the refueling ban.”

    Well that worked brilliantly last time, It took the racing off track & moved it into the pit lane.
    all the passing was done via fuel strategy & there was then very little going on out on track as a result.

    look at the overtaking stats, they plummeted the second refueling was introduced in 1994 & shot back up as soon as refueling was banned in 2010.

    refueling was awful for the racing & if it ever came back I would switch off F1 this time because im not sitting through the dull refueling races with pit-passing again!

  460. Harshad says:

    Remind me what all pundits say about Barcelona racetrack…
    They say, “if your car works here it generally works everywhere”.

    Spain 2010, Alonso finished P2,
    Spain 2012, Alonso Finshes P2, Fighting for P1 on the last lap.
    Spain 2013, Alonso finished P1.

    So effectively the car is certainly “not Inferior” as it is made out to be, or all the pundits are speaking rubbish about Barcelona track.

    Also, at that stage, Alonso in 2010 was ahead of Vettel/Webber in WDC and in 2012 was level on points with Vettel.

  461. Sebee says:

    And I thought I was nutty calling for a Vettel DNF and WDC to be stretched out. You hoped Lewis would WIN!?! :-) Just kidding everyone!

  462. Rob Newman says:

    When they had decent long lasting tyres, the races were mere processions. There were hardly any overtaking. Remember the good old ‘Trulli Train’? So people complained. That’s why Pirelli was asked to bring these type of tyres.

    Those who moan about tyres are losers who can’t simply come to grip with Vettel’s supremacy and people who are crap at qualifying.

    May be they should bring special qualifying tyres. Then this issue would be resolved.

  463. Harshad says:

    how many drivers exactly pitted after 5 laps for new tyres!

    Perez used his ‘Option tyre’ for more than 20+ laps, which then gave away because of lock up.

    No other car used ‘Option tyre’ for more than 20+ laps.

    It was poor call from Perez and Macca in the first place to use those tyres for that long.

  464. Paige says:


    It’s not about the grip in the tires at that point. It’s about the grip in the car. In addition to the car preserving it’s tires well, the Lotus had very good grip in the slow corners- as it has all year long. The Mercedes, by comparison, was not at it’s strongest in the slow corners in this race. It was much better in the fast corners in sectors 2 and 3. As for him claiming he “belongs to the same elite group as Alonso,” I’ve never heard him say this. I’ve heard him say lots of times that he believes Alonso is the best driver. Alonso has also said that he believes Hamilton is the best driver. This is largely mind games that they are trying to play with Vettel that clearly aren’t working.

    Lewis has his strengths and weaknesses as a driver. He has quire a history of being strong under braking- and he’s not the only one who has commented on this. Whether or not he is the best at this, I don’t know. But he’s definitely very good, and there are others who are also very good. My point is that you can’t say somoene is better than him just because they beat him once under braking when he has a record of making similar maneuvers.

    Of course, it’s one thing to have the natural ability to do it. It’s another to have the technical capability in the car to allow you to do the things that guys like Hamilton and Grosjean have done. They could do it better than others given the same technical capability in the car to do it, but ultimately you still need that capability. Hamilton has had it before, and he is reportedly struggling to find comfort in the braking system and setup this year. Grosjean had it yesterday.

  465. Paige says:

    Hamilton is a world champion and has shown his speed and quality as a racing driver time and again. He’s made lots of mistakes, that is true, but he’s not the only one like this. He’s also had some rotten luck with cars failing at bad times. (Such a last year, for instance.)

    I think if he was in the Red Bull the last few years instead of Vettel, the results would largely have been the same.

    I’d certainly put him in the top-3. Whether or not he is the best, I don’t know. This is a debate we will always have in every era of F1. People still get quite vicious over the Senna v. Prost debate to this day, for example.

  466. Benalf says:

    Hamilton if the fastest racer in F1 nowadays. IMO, his failures and pitfalls came due to a lack of correct management from Mr. Dennis and his father -at least- in a critical moment when McLaren was able -legally or not- to move the car development in the right direction. As a young driver, Hamilton showed his worth, but also his lack of experience managing the details of human nature. People slams drivers using ill or incomplete information; we think we can judge or have a “clear picture” about what’s going on behind a driver and even worst, behind a complex racing team. When you hear negative comments about Vettel, Hamilton, Webber and in a much more intense way, against Alonso, it seems hopeless to say something to brings things into perspective.
    The incredible string of WC of Vettel and RBR is something even bigger than what Schumi accomplished with Ferrari shortly after the team became competitive. It must be acknowledge and celebrated -if you want-. But thinking Vettel is the only way able to dominate the sport, several years in a row, shows very little knowledge about F1 and bias in-pro or against certain drivers. Give Kimi, Fernando, Lewis a top car and they will deliver. I can make the list even larger -just think about Button racing a Brawn GP in 2009- but it’s not necessary.

  467. Benalf says:

    Don’t blame pirelli mate, blame the FIA and Mr.E who chose to play with the tires to spice things up. Pirelli is a great manufacturer for road and racecars; if you want grip, buy Michelins or Pirellis. What the tires do or dont in F1 is based on the twisted idea of making tires to play a much bigger role than they usually play in racing -which is quite big in normal racing-. The sad part of 2013 tire saga is, IMO, that substantial changes were made DURING the season and that damage Lotus, Ferrari and Force car performance and it fit just perfectly to RBR -Mercedes after the tests-. If you think that’s fair then call F1 anyting but a sport

  468. Jasper says:

    Couldn’t care less about Alonso/Hamilton or whoever.

    Get a life and stop treading on other people’s opinons!!!

    I’ve spent money on attending races in this Championship and I feel that I’ve wasted it when the second half of the season has little to nothing in common with the first half. I’m switching my attention to the WTCC, close racing and affordable tickets and no massive mid-season shifts in the competitive order. Pirelli, Red Bull politics and Articificial racing has killed it for me.

  469. exactly that elle. why people take delight in dissing on webber is beyond me. the guy gives it everything he has and still vettel is faster.

    webber might be few years older but as you say, when he puts his car within hundredths on the front row he can’t be too bad at all.

    as for your comment ME, i was speaking TIC. IMO he was the winner…on merit.

  470. KARTRACE says:

    I read in one of the reports around the KGP, last year and this one again. If I see it I’ll post link for you.

  471. KARTRACE says:

    Here you are, even James commented something to that effect apart from some driver negative comments a saw some other place:

    ” 28. Posted By: Truth or Lies
    Date: October 3rd, 2013 @ 12:28 am


    Silly question but what makes the Korea circuit an unloved venue, the food, hotels, local transportation? Just curious!

    Btw, I know lots of contributors, me included, often say thanks for this great site. But you do know that you are completely redefining the way F1 is covered in the specialist media. The quality and relevance of the almost daily new articles is just amazing. Especially for those of us who grew up waiting for Motoring News and Autosport to arrive home every Friday from the newsagents and then fought against brother and dad to read an article or two :)


    James Allen Reply:
    October 3rd, 2013 at 7:07 am


    It’s a place no one enjoys, difficult to get there, hardly any crowd, food is a real problem

    The track is good though


    Johnston Reply:
    October 3rd, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Will having the race in or near Seoul solve everything?



  472. Kay says:

    Kevlar belted condoms that has marbles falling off does sound a bit painful.

  473. Fireman says:

    Probably both. He’s comments start to weight less and less. There’s no coherence, just train of thought.

  474. anon says:

    Hamilton’s become increasingly bitter. He wanted to be the Senna or Schumacher of this era, but it will belong to Vettel – unless Hamilton can some how win 5 championships.

    Not only that but the pussycat doll broke up with him and Mercedes are forcing him to wear a cap in interviews, which is contributing to his moping demeanour.

    Hamilton only has himself to blame at the end of the day. Lost the 2007 championship because he beached his car going into the pits, Button outscored him during their three seasons together.

    Vettel doesn’t crack under pressure. In fact he elevates his game. The final races of 2010 and 2012 he was sublime.

  475. KARTRACE says:

    Right you are. No racing driver would ever slow down to make racing more entertaining, LH just to bitter at the moment. On the other hand he got some points right.


  476. Rob Newman says:

    You are a big boy now. You cannot expect to be spoon fed all the time. You need to go out and do some research on your own. There are so many resources out there.

  477. Mike J says:

    @ Rob Newman
    Yeah, i am 54 yo. watched a lot of F1 in my time. You obviously couldn’t name one issue and are just another who follows the crowd.
    Bottom line is no one here knows the proper inside story at RB.
    Listen to James interview with Newey and how Webber is better with aero feedback which Seb enjoys the end reult…..you need to get off your ‘bandwagon’.

  478. Rob Newman says:

    I can remember David Beckham kicking the air and his shoe went flying. I think he was penalised for that.

  479. Elie says:

    Yeah sorry Kenneth, it was meant for “ME”- too many people here really lack perspective.

  480. anon says:

    Massa didn’t have trouble with passing a Sauber, and we know how bad a driver Massa is.

    It’s laughable to suggest that Ferrari was anything but superior to the Sauber.

    Alonso got beat fair and square by Hulkenberg. It seems Alonso can only get past someone when it’s blowing past someone at the start with his KERS and superior engine mapping.

  481. anon says:

    “Uhh, think you need to put Malaysia in there for sure, and they were equal best in Britain, Germany, and Hungary.”

    No way. Mercedes far and away the best in Hungary. A track that required mechanical grip like Monaco and heavily favoured Mercedes.

    Ferrari best in Malaysia. Even Massa qualified second. Alonso made a mistake in the race. He would have easily had the pace to win given how the Red Bull and Mercedes were so marginal with tyres.

    Germany the Lotus was the best car. Lotus split their strategy for the last stint yet still couldn’t overcome the brilliance of Vettel.

  482. Sebee says:

    Fireman…helping put out fires! :-)

  483. James Allen says:


    Will post on frustrated racing drivers shortly!

  484. Equin0x says:

    Yeah well Alonso always has that thrown toys out syndrome. It just seems Hamilton has shown his true colours lately and are in thw same mould, neither of them are thw top 2 F1 drivera like they believe they are, holding onto the misconseption that they are head and shoulders obove the rest just because of 2005-2008, hold onto that past all they like but even Raikkonen in those years overall out performed these 2 if it wasn’t for the cars and since then new drivers like Vettel and Hulkenberg have actually raised the bar and exisiting 1′s like Button, Webber and Rosberg gained competitive cars and have shown Alonso and especially Hamilton are not special afterall it must be a bitter pill to swallow for these 2 ‘legends’. The current pecking order are here to stay get use to it, I might be wrong but I doubt Merc and Ferrari would give these 2 the car advantage they need to win the championship next year and besides it’d be an achievement for them toceven beat their team mates next year.

  485. Tealeaf says:

    Great point, with whatever tyres Seb comes out on top the excuses from the Hamilton fans have contradicted themselves for years just take it on the chin admit Vettel’s the best and move on…

  486. James Allen says:

    Adrian is fulsome in his praise for Vettel. He refuses to compare eras, but you can tell he considers him in a line from Senna and Schumacher

  487. KARTRACE says:

    Who died in that war, who killed who, that officially never ended, for what reason, it is for the historians to find out and tell. All I could say is if you say the fact that is rude then it is not rude because the way it was put here but because it merely reflects reality that was rude in its ignorance. All one can say, and to conclude, thank God no one was hurt yet again. BTW never heard anyone officially apologized for the mess they’ve done on Sunday. Not organizers, not the Prime minister, not the Fire chief. Simply no one. No one resigned either ?, just pretending as if everything was fine. How rude that is ?


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