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Posted By: James Allen  |  13 Aug 2013   |  11:29 am GMT  |  514 comments

The influential Italian sports paper Gazzetta dello Sport has today published its rankings of the F1 drivers for the season so far.

The Italian media is very fond of what they call “pagelle”, which are marks out of 10 after every event. It’s a well established part of Italian sports media coverage and has been copied here and there in the UK media and elsewhere.

But in Italy it carries a bit more weight. So it is worth reporting and considering to see whether readers here on JA on F1 agree with their marks.

It’s also interesting to compare with their marks last year.

For example last year, Alonso came out with a 10, due to having won three races in an open season; this year he merits an 8, with the mistake in Malaysia weighing him down. Meanwhile in a stark assessment of Ferrari’s other driver, Felipe Massa was at the bottom of the table last year, this year he is close to it, keeping company with Vergne and Pic one point ahead of Gutierrez.


Top of the class this year is Sebastian Vettel with a perfect 10, whom Gazzetta compare with Alain Prost – whose four world title Vettel may match come the end of the season.

The citation reads: “This year he seems like Alain Prost, when it seems the right moment to settle, he does so without trying to win at all costs. He’s running away with it and it’s hard to imagine him not getting a fourth title.” It’s an interesting view, given that in Malaysia he couldn’t stop himself from trying to win, especially with Fernando Alonso out of the reckoning that day.

Kimi Raikkonen is second with 9, credited with having reinvented himself after running out of steam with Ferrari in 2009. One mark against him for not mastering qualifying this time around.


Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg are tied on 7 points, Hamilton pulled down by having taken time to get on top of the tyres. It describes his Hungary win as a turning point. Rosberg gets credit for matching Hamilton on the whole and winning two races.

Jenson Button gets a nod with 6.5, due to extracting points from “one of the worst McLarens in history”.

Here are the ratings:

10 Vettel
9 Raikkonen
8 Alonso
7 Hamilton, Rosberg
6.5 Grosjean, Button, Di Resta
6 Hulkenberg, Webber, Bianchi
5.5 Ricciardo, Maldonado, Bottas, Sutil, Perez
5 Massa, Vergne, Pic
4 Gutierrez, Van der Garde, Chilton

Do you agree? Give us your mid season driver rankings in the comments section below. We will pick one response at random later this week and they will win a limited edition JA on F1 T shirt (for more information click JA on F1 T Shirt

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514 comments

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1

If Kimi has 9 points for a reason he has not mastered the art of qualifying, Vettel should not be given a 10 either, for he still does not deal with traffic, the way hamilton, alonso or kimi.

webber at 6 points seems to be Unfair.

2

Webber should be higher especially after his top gear performance!

On a more serious note, I have found the analysis and comparison of drivers' and teams' points and qualifying results on autosport quite interesting (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109254). It is definitely more useful as a gauge on performance than Gazzetta dello Sport's (or indeed anyone's) marks out of ten.

Certain things of interest for example are that Ferrari have a high points total in 2013 than 2012 because of Massa's quite significant improvement and despite of Alonso's failure to match last year's points tally (although Alonso is still clearly outscoring Massa).

What is even more interesting, when comparing improvements in 2013 over 2012, is if you actually divide each driver's (or team's) points total in 2013 by the 2012 equivalent and then order the drivers (and teams).

3

Whoever did that report in autosport, goofed up big time. Qual avg for Pic, Perez, Ricciardo are incorrect. Check from the numbers in parentheses. You would expect one typo, but 3? There could be more, did not bother to go through the whole report.

4

While I don't like the[mod]t. I'd say that is unfair. The Red Bull is usually down on straight line speed making it harder to pass other cars

He's done a good job in traffic as far as I've seen.

Please, anybody else beat this punk.

5

Goodness gracious, no reason to get all steamed up about it.

Of course Gazzetta has their particular slant on which driver is where in the pecking order, just everybody else! No biggie.

This serves as a starting point, for... all this discussion below; so it worked!

If you don;t like their ratings, then put your own in, and why (if you feel like it).

deancassady's mid-season rankings:

(mine in terms of packages)

9.5 Vettel-Red Bull

9.5 Kimi-Lotus

9.0 Lewy-Mercedes

8.0 Alonso-Ferrari

7.5 Webber-Red Bull, Rosberg-Mercedes, Grosjean-Lotus (in that order)

7.0 Di Resta-Force India, Button-McLaren, Perez-McLaren, Bianchi-Marussia, Ricciardo-Toro Rosso, Vergne-Toro Roso

-----------------------------------------

All of the above, fully earning a seat at the pinnacle of motor sport

-----------------------------------------

6.0 Bottas-Williams, Sutil-Force India, Massa-Ferrari

5.0 Hulkenberg-Sauber

4.0 VanDerGarde-Caterham, Gutierez-Sauber

3.5 Maldonado-Williams, Pic-Caterham

1.5 Chilton-Marussia

Next, in reply, I will describe why.

6

Reasonings:

1. Vettel-Red Bull:

Sebastian has rarely put a tire wrong. He is equal or better than the rest at taking advantage of every opportunity on the most consistent basis, and it shows in the points.

I'm a big Webber fan, and not endeared to the blockhead munchkin, but facts are facts, he's drove as well as anyone, and he's well-atop the standings.

Be all that as it may, rarely putting a tire wrong is not the same as never having put a tire wrong, thus 9.5

Trend:

Maintaining competitiveness; there is little to expect that Vettel won't be racing for wins for the rest of the season, and getting, usually, podiums at least.

2. Kimi-Lotus:

Out of the box, this year, there were none of the adjustment issues that Kimi-Lotus had last year, and the results showed it, winning the first race. Kimi has equalled Vettel in minimizing errors, and maximizing opportunities, but the car has lacked the qualifying pace of the Red Bull, and of course the silver arrows; so equalt to Vettel, except that minor point about being about 40 points behind in the championship.

Trending upwards steadily, still has qualifying challenges, because even if they can match the vettel-Red Bull one-lap, Mercedes looks to dominate for the rest of the season.

3. Lewy-Mercedes:

In the second quarter, Lewy should get a 9.5, but in the first quarter, he would be closer to 8.0-8.5, though expectable, coming into a new team.

The Lewis-Mercedes trajectory, after Hungary, is a straight line to the top; Lewis-Mercedes is the prime challenger if overall pace is confirmed in Spa.

4. Alonso-Ferrari:

The frustration is palpable, and spilling out into the media. Few doubt Fernando's capability to win, but it is clear that he is not getting the machinery to compete, and challenge for victories, every race; anything less is intolerable for Fernando. That being said, he's cracking a bit under these stresses, and should have scored better than he has.

Trend: Alonso-Ferrari is wallowing, and losing out in the development war; in reality, if they can't be on one of the top two steps in Spa, they should shift all development to the 2014 car, after Monza!

5. Top Team Number 2s: Webber-Red Bull, Rosberg-Mercedes, Grosjean-Lotus:

There, but not quite; clearly outperformed by team mates. Some may challenge Grosjean's inclusion, but he has the steepest favourable trend of the three, and of anyone below in the rankings; without the blatent prejudice of the penalties against him in Hungary, Grosjean would have been racing to the flag for the win; I am expecting a Grosjean win, in the next three races.

Rosberg seems emotional fragile, and I expect Lewis to accelerate the gap between them, starting at Spa.

8. Logjam of the brightest in the mid-field (and further back): Di Resta-Force India, Button-McLaren, Perez-McLaren, Bianchi-Marussia, Ricciardo-Toro Rosso, Vergne-Toro Roso.

I can't really understand why Di Resta is not getting an avalanche of praise for his driving this year; while Sutil has flashes of success, Di Resta has had flashes of disappointment; he would be my first pick for either a Ferrari or Red Bull second seat.

I can't see anything to choose between team mates Perez and Button, or Vergne and Ricciardo, and I am unclear as to why Vergne is left out of the party for Red Bull seat consideration, seems like due to marketability over pure performance criteria.

The rising star on the grid seems Bianchi, but he'll never get his due until he trounces a mid-field car team mate or delivers comparable performance to a top team, team mate.

THE REST:

Under performers, though if you look at the Autosport comparative between last year and this year, Massa is the most improved; yet not enough; he could be gone by the end of the year, and Ferrari should use the time to gamble on a lonshot, i.e. Di Resta, Bianchi, or even Grosjean.

Bottas has been competent but in this year's Williams, none would look inspiring.

I don't know why Sutil continues to pick up accolades, nor Hulkenberg, in another car that does not provide enough to make anyone look good.

Gutierrez, similarly handicapped, and also pale in comparison to the last Mexican to come up via the same route.

I've never seen what the big deal is about Maldonado, besides the cash injection.

Of the rest of the bottom five, plenty has already been said.

7

Whilst I more or less agree with your rankings outright, I must say that your belief that Rosberg is emotionally fragile is plainly wrong. Hamilton is the sook here. Just listen to any press conference with Hamilton in it from the last few races and you will see he struggles mentally more than any other driver (he would have us believe).

8

Why do people always bring that up for every tiny mistake Vettel makes.

He is excellent in traffic as good as those 3 but of course he will make mistakes as he is not perfect, but neither are the other 3 who make just as many mistakes in traffic as Vettel does.

9

I believe Vettel has had more incidents with traffic in the last 15 races combined than Alonso and Kimi have combined during the same period.

10

Sure, but you also believe in the tooth fairy!

The last 15 races .... I notice that "15" number was very carefully chosen so as to exclude Alonso's crashing out in the Japanese GP.

Here's a genuine fact for you: Vettel has the record for the most races without crashing out, going all the way back to the start of 2010. Alonso crashed out in Malaysia this year and Suzuka last year. One of these drivers is prone to costly mistakes, but his initials are not SV.

11

why 15 races? The rating is for his performance in 2013 and there have only been 10 races so far. Or has Vettel's driving been so perfect this year that you need to dredge up last year's races just to try and prop up your argument?

12

You just hit the nail in the head - no one perfect so 10 cannot exist

13

And you guys think that a guy does the the most perfect humanly possible drive every time he gets into a car ??

You also believe that being in a WC team has nothing to do with it??.

If you work on that basis Alonso was a 12/10 last year. Im no fan but I have him 9.5.

To say someone is a 10 you are saying there is no room for improvement. Any driver knows there was always something they could have done better. And to say its relative- how do you know the Bianci in a Marussia hasn't done an equally impressive job.

I give you all a 2/10 for your relatively ill measured answers and lack of reasoning 🙂

14

Sorry there was a typo there i ment to say 9.75

15

Maybe he came out at 9.5 or rounded to a real number 10. Lol its just someones opinion and SV has done very well, if not for an engine failure he would have another win and 25 points.

The drivers seem to be ranked in a decent enough order although I would have ranked PDR a with the merc pairing even though i really dislike the guy after all his moaning!!!

16

A driver can get a 10 for performing at highest level that is humanly possible. Vettel has done that, and I look at it this way. If it was Senna, Prost, Mansell, Schumacher at their peak, could they have done any better. For me the answer is no, so yes Vettel warrants a 10. I see people bringing inability to overtake in Hungary, but that was a car deficit not Vettel.

Same thing with Hamilton. Seems like he has been scored in accordance with the Merc's brutality on tyres. But that's not a driver deficit, it's the machinery he has got. He has only made 1 glaring error in Monaco and yet he is ranked below some drivers who have made a few errors, or in Kimi's case a few bad qualifying sessions.

17

But this is not absolute, is relative, so if he has done it better than the other guys he deserves 10.

18

+1 - seens more of a popularity contest, other than the recognition that Button has done relatively more with less - and not sure that Massa should be so far down, having been a lot closer to and even ahead of FA in quali at times and seems to be racing reasibably well, too - even compared with last year at this time.

19

The whole credit / rating system is utter nonsense. Is it based on math / science formula or some journalistic perception?

How do you really rank the drivers which are left out of the director's TV focus? Some of them really have to deal with inferior cars and try to drive the hell out of them.

I'm not buying anything except the current points standing.

20

But the current point standing is also largely depends on the cars as well.

21

Shhhhhhhhush. Don't spoil it for all the posters who imagine 'their driver' is the one making all the difference.

22

thy are biased and they even blamed Lewis for the tyre troubles... stupid myth!

23

Didn't you know that Lewis finally figured it out for Mercedes late Friday night in Hungary? It came to him as he was catching up on Breaking Bad, getting ready for the new season! 😉

24
Spinodontosaurus

He dealt with traffic pretty well in Bahrain I seem to recall...

Agree though that Webber on only 6 is somewhat harsh, as are Massa and Sutil's ranking.

25

I also don't understand how Ricciardo can be behind Grosjean, Button, Di Resta, Hulkenberg and Webber. Or why Rosberg is tied with Lewis for that matter.

Even Ferrari feel that Alonso is under-driving this season, I honestly don't see how he could be placed above both Lewis, Di Resta and Ricciardo.

26

Really? You were wondering why Rosberg is tied with Lewis. I put a theory forward.

27

But the theory doesn't make sense.

Ok, here's a practical test; if you were the boss at Merc which of your drivers would you be backing now to do the business for the WDC?

I'd say that your choice would be the higher rated driver.

I also mentioned Grosjean, Button, Di Resta, Hulkenberg, Webber and Alonso. Not just Lewis and Rosberg. Don't you think where these other drivers are positioned is unfair too?

28

Because Rosberg has won twice vs. Lewis once - I think that would be good starting point. One of those is a drivers skill circuit - Monaco. Those two wins vs. one are evened out by points standing of Lewis being higher currently. Makes sense.

29

Sorry, none of that makes sense.

Please read what I wrote again, sir.

30

one of the wins was gifted to nico after lewis got a punture and vettel a dnf.its 7-3 to lewis in quali and races.so how can they be tied 7-7?also nico was behind lewis in the races he did dnf in.

31

Hungary is also a driver-skill circuit (perhaps only 2nd to Monaco, maybe Singapore in there as well). Plus Rosberg inherited the win in GBR from Hamilton's and Vettel's (and Webber's) incidents.

What rating did Lewis get from GdS last year? He's 32 pts up on last year, and thru 10 races has the same number of wins (1) and podiums (5). In a new team and car.

Vettel has done really well, but a 10? Did Alonso get a 10 last year? That I could see, but even then it's always hard to give out a perfect score. The Red Bull car has been better this year, in relation to its rivals, than in 2012, at least thru the first 10 races. He's done the business though in the car, and he's racked up the 2nd most points over the first 10 races since the advent of the new scoring system (only beaten by his 2011 score).

32

Vettel had trouble getting past Button in one race because of a tight track and he was in a slower car in a straight line.

Vettel has shown he can cut through traffic as well as anyone in several other races last year and this year. Remember him passing both Rosberg and Alonso in Bahrain this year?

Hamilton had trouble being held up in traffic at several races this year and has admitted as much. Kimi couldn't get past Vettel in Germany even when his car was faster. Alonso hasn't passed hardly anyone on track this year.

Vettel is clearly driving better than anyone else and deserves to be at the top of the rankings. Thus he gets a 10.

33

Take a point off for "teamwork" I would.

34

Erm? Ferrari definitely have a number 1 (Massa is practically Alonsos butler), Red Bull ordered Seb to stay behind Webber and he disobeyed the order. McLaren and Lotus are really the only teams that don't tend to play driver 1/2 (although now Kimi is realistically the only one for the championship they are putting a bit more a preference on the Finn rather than the "crashey one" (my girlfriend referred to him as this and its stuck)

35

I'd add a point to Vettel's score to reflect the fact that, unlike Alonso, Raikkonen, and Hamilton, he does not have an obedient teammate moving over for him on command.

11.

36

If you do that to Vettel you have to do the same to Hamilton. Remember Rosberg was forced to stay behind him in Malaysia.

37

Now that's a good point(no pun intended)!

38

Well said. Why is Alonso consistently rated so highly? How can he be the most complete driver on the grid if he's a terrible qualifier (compared to Vettel and Hamilton)? Wouldn't that make him a little incomplete?

39

Why ALO so high? Because it's an Italian newspaper, just like British press tends to rank HAM and BUT slightly higher than their capability. And the fanatic RAI fans seems to think he's the best driver ever.

40

Arnie S, i think you quite easily forgot about Suzuka 2005 and other plenty races that Raikkonen proved how he can " slash" thought the field of cars pretty nicely.Raikkonen is known by many to have amazing pure driving talent.Do not forget, he drives in an inferior team ( compared to the big 3 ) and yet he manages to stay there, thats the reason why some people consider him the best.

41

It wasn't my intention to say anything regarding who's the best etc, just a humble attempt to explain that supporters and/or nationalism gives extra scores to their "own" drivers.

I personally like RAI, because of his personality (No, I'm not a Finn), and in my "unbiased opinion" I think the current top four in WDC is in a league of their own.

As an amateur, and given everyone equally good cars, that would support their respective driving style, I believe the pecking order would be:

- ALO

- VET

- HAM

- RAI

Then, who can deny that HAM is most likely the fastest in quali. Who can deny that VET and ALO is the most ruthless and that ALO can slash through a field of cars that RAI can't dream about. Who can deny (that of these four)RAI can maintain his tyres the best.

Unfortunately (Aneesh :))VDG would be a mile off this list.

42

So who is the best driver in your unbiased opinion? Van Der Garde?

43

I think the Italian bias thought is a little simplistic otherwise why is Massa so low when he's out qualified his team mate a couple of times? Also, the Italian media are more critical of Ferrari than anyone else. Ferrari not winning is always treated as a crisis in Italy and the team from Monty down cop plenty of flak.

44

He puts the car ahead of where it should be. The Ferrari isn't a good qualy package.

45

He puts the car ahead of where it should be...

With respect that is a physical impossibility. No driver, however good, can exceed the limits of the car. They may be able to extract the maximum performance from the car, but it is impossible to out perform it.

46

Last year alonso was the best driver on the grid in terms of what he achieved with a less than great car

This year he's been fairly average on the whole so I would not rate him as high as that

This is a Italian paper and no doubt is a little biased toward the red team! If a uk paper repeated this I'm sure Lewis would be higher

47

Broadly agree, although I think Massa deserves a bit more credit. Yes his last races weren't much to shout about, but in terms of raw pace, he is much closer to Alonso this year — at least as far as the first halfs of the two years are concerned.

Also, does Sutil really deserve to be a whole point below Di Resta?

49

Just the usual rubbish with ratings. They give the drivers in the top teams high numbers and the midfield teams get lower numbers.

Who is to say Ricciardo and Bottas havn't been performing at 9/10 levels getting the maximum possible on their strategy and equipment? Theyve both been very standout in my view.

Who is to say Bianchi isn't performing on a 10/10 level? Di Resta has been impressive so far for me too considering he keeps losing out on Saturdays.

Its just the usual confirmation bias that those in the top cars are extracting the most from their equipment

50

Driver rankings cannot be scientific. And it seldom is in reality as well. So WDC points and subjective rankings are just a fun way to discuss about our favorites drivers.

If F1 drivers were truly "the best" then we would see them dominate other forms of motorsport. Other than a few exceptions like Mansell and Andretti, very few become champions in other forms of motorsport.

But it's the combination of the driver and an F1 car that wins the WDC and WCC. If F1 were truly about finding out who is the best driver, then the sport would standardize the cars. But it is not. It's about the team, the car and the driver.

Hence these discussions about the best driver are inherently highly subjective. Take it with a pinch of salt, it's fun reading. Take it too seriously, you lose the enjoyment.

Unless one enjoys arguing just for the sake of it.

51

"Who is to say Ricciardo and Bottas havn’t been performing at 9/10 levels getting the maximum possible on their strategy and equipment?"

Who's to say that, given what they had to work with, Wigan and Aston Vila were not the two best teams in the Premier League last season? Sports simply does not work that way. You're judged on your actual results, not on what somebody thinks you might have accomplished in an alternative reality.

52

I totally agree with this comment.

That ranking is hugely based on the Drive Ranking table at the moment rather than points that you can measure each driver on his own merit.

It's usual that a driver with a better car ranked higher.

53

Fair point well made I'd say. There is some blurring of the lines but I generally agree. If it wasn't for politics getting in the way I'd say there's a few drivers there worthy of an RB of SF drive.

54

+1.

I don't agree either... Hulkenberg, Hamilton, Bianchi, Bottas, Ricciardo & Verge clearly all need to be marked better. And how can you put JB & RG on the same points? RG has been up and down all season whereas JB has been pretty damn consistent if not setting the world alight - He's pretty much nailed his team mate which is something RG hasn't been able to do even if I think he's probably the quickest in the field on his day.

Yup, don't like the scoring at all basically. I can only agree completely with the top two and the very bottom 3.

57

+1 to that.

58

I fully agree with this statement - it seems ridiculous to me that there's so little difference to the actual F1 WDC points table at the moment (with Webber and Massa the only ones out of sync).

I think the one true benefit of a Driver Ranking table rather than points table is that you can measure each driver on his own merit, rather than in the balance with other drivers over a given set of scores, such as the WDC points.

This table does none of that, so quite rightly I would have expected to see Bianchi (categorically outperforming his teammate and showcasing his talent in slower machinery) to score very highly, with someone like Grosjean (hasn't matched the car's potential at any track yet) to be ranked much lower...

I do agree Chilton seems to be a bit slow though... 😉

59

I do agree Chilton seems to be a bit slow though..

I believe his Dad is quite quick at writing out cheques though.. 😉

60

Thing is, it's much, much harder to perform well at the front. I used to agree with the point you're making but not anymore.

61

Completely agree with you. It doesn't seem right that it is like this.

Also, why Vettel is on 10, yet he has made some large errors himself (multi 21).

62

Of course it was an error even if Vettel himself cant see it. He cheated. Tie one hand behind a drivers back and another goes past him knowing this is the case is cheating. Vettel did it against everyones instructions and over an ususpecting Webber. Add to this there was a code internal for this which Webber reminded Vettel of after the race. Im sorry but he is a cheat. Personally i cant wait till Ricciardo joins the team and beats him.

63

We are yet to see if multi 21 was an error.

Mark only seriously challenged Seb a few times throughout the season. His replacement may challenge a great deal more than that.

64

Yes Multi 21 was a big error on Vettel's part or am I the only one that seems to remember that Seb was leading the race on intermediates and was given the choice of when to come in for dry tyres as well as which tyres to use? He was the first driver to pit for dry tyres and lost a lot of time in the wet areas of the track which handed the race lead to MW. From then on, with the pre-race agreement in mind, he first tried to get the team to get Mark out of the way, -which Mark responded to by opening up the gap- and then he and the team ambushed Mark at the last pit stop.

65

It (multi-21) might not have been popular, but was hardly an error.

Other than that what BIG errors has he made this year?

66

The Multi 21 saga might just win him the championship, when it all comes down to it. IMO, right or wrong, you need to be pretty cut throat to be one of the greats.

67

multi 21 wasn't an error, he knew what he was doing

68

Its an Italian sports paper. What do you expect? If they can compare Vettel to Prost based solely on 4 championships, then anything is possible. Not saying Vettel is not that good per se, but you cant make the comparison based on numbers alone. Especially when Prost was partnered with the force of nature that was Senna and the best Vettel ever had for a teammate was Webbo.

Bottas and Maldonado should at least get 8s.

69

The legend of Senna and that force of nature was tamed in 1992 and in 1994 due to the equipment. I don't speak ill of the dead, but seriously - let's not overlook the fact that Senna understood F1 perfectly, fought to be in the best car so that he could win.

By the same token, why is that same desire by Vettel to be in the best car a bad thing? Perhaps he would jump teams to another team that figured out a trick and made a faster car. Instead, RBR stick as a team, develop, fight back like last year post Italy for example. Why is one a greater achievement than the other? Is it not actually easier to jump ship into a fast package than it is to face the mirror, pick yourself up and become the fast package when you're not? Who planted this idea of WDCs in multiple taems as the only right way? Schumi took his entire Benetton team to Ferrari. So it was red instead of blue uniforms. Everything else was same. I find it funny how these myths are promoted.

70

Wut?

The comparison with Prost comes from his methodical points gathering and race control - not the number 4. Lol.

71

I agree about Prost, also he competed for championships in 1983, 1984, 1988 and 1990, with Renault, Mclaren and Ferrari respectively.

I don't much like Prost but to compare Vettel to Prost at this stage of his career is as ludicrous as Brundle thinking he was in Senna's league!

72

I think there are reasons for the comparison.

Obviously the WDC count for starters. Don't ignore who Vettel has won those against. The grid is rich. If he wins the 4th, then he also did his first 4 all in a row (he's already only one to do first 3 all in a row), where it took prost 8 years to register that 4th WDC achievement. I think WDCs are a good measure of comparison hero.

What we have to recognize here also is early Vettel start - Prost entered at 25 or so, Vettel has 3 WDCs already. We also have to factor that you're looking in your mind at whole Prost carrier, we've seen just the start of Vettel's. Prost also did things in different cars/teams, which Vettel is yet to do. We are yet to see where Vettel goes and what he does once he gets there. So while this achievement is not on his CV yet, let's also not hold it against him that he has not gotten there yet. That's a bit like punishing a smart kid for not being an MD yet. Saying that he's staying in the top car is a bit silly - as Prost and Senna also wanted to be in a top car.

Vettel has much to prove still. But let's be honest, he's not exactly done with F1 and we've not exactly seen all of Vettel's carrier yet. What is factual is that everything he has done so far has set a new high-score in the F1 record book. That has to count for something.

73

"Not saying Vettel is not that good per se, but you cant make the comparison based on numbers alone. Especially when Prost was partnered with the force of nature that was Senna and the best Vettel ever had for a teammate was Webbo."

How does this affect Vettel's performance? should it be his problem Webber can not hack it?

Have you asked this question off Alonso who is called the "most complete driver" due to Massa?

74

The truth is cream always rises to the top, the drivers who race in the top teams do so for a reason, those that can't hack it are soon shipped off to lesser teams!

75

I take your point, but how do you explain Massa?

76

They've been kind to Maldanado I think.

77

They have been quite rude to Bianchi too. This is how I see it:

1) Vettel - 10/10 added a streak of ruthlessness - a pre-requisite if you want to be one of the greats.

2) Raikkonen 9/10 He is right up there with Vettel in every other area except for qualifying. That Lotus has had the speed at some races to be on pole.

3) Alonso 8/10 some uncharacteristic mistakes in Malaysia and Bahrain costing a massive chunk of points else he would be right up there at the top - and needs to improve Saturdays pronto.

4) Hamilton 9/10 Perhaps the fastest guy on the grid but the best way to judge him is look at Rosberg with three years experience in the car - leading him by 40 points and outqualifying him 7-4. All of Nico's DNFs happened while he was behind Lewis. Needs however to improve car set-up to improve race pace when fuel goes in. 5) Webber 7/10

6) Rosberg 7/10

7) Massa 6/10

8) Grosjean 6/10

9) Button 5/10

10) Di Resta 7/10

11) Sutil 6/10

12) Perez 5/10

13) Vernge 5/10

14) Ricciardo 7/10

15) Hulkenburg 7/10

16) Maldonado 5/10

17) Bottas 6/10

18) Gutierrez 3/10

19) Bianchi 8/10

20) Pic 7/10

21) van der Garde6/10

22) Chilton 1/10

78

I agree with the sentiments expressed here, in particular placing Webber and Rosberg higher and on the same rating

79
Tornillo Amarillo

+1

I agree with Blackmamba more than with Gazzetta dello Sport.

80

It's totally unfair to give the Marussia and Caterham drivers low ratings. The two cars are very poor, Vettel would struggle to get the cars in to point scoring positions.

Also, I don't think Perez has been that good, and he certaintly hasn't been better than Button.

81

n#1 to n#5 ratings do for me! I agree! Very fair.

While in the mid pack and newbies, only Bottas and Bianchi have impressed me the most.

83

Another DNF for Mark!

(did not feature)

84

"No Webber?"

5th.... 😉

85

In fifth place.

86

Number 5 7/10

87

Position 5

88

He's there. Just tacked on to the end of the Hamilton paragraph.

89

He's hidden at the end of Hamilton's entry

5) Webber 7/10

90

Tucked in 5th?

91

Webber is in 5th! He's just not on his own line though 😛

92

Webber is #5 with a Score 7/10 after hamilton.

its on the same line

93

He's number 5, I assume he forgot to press return key

94

On the same level as Ricciardo? VERY kind.

95

A bit shocked by them sticking Gutierrez alongside Van der Garde and Chiltton, a bit harsh I think.

Here would be my marks (no half marks from me!)

10 Vettel, Raikkonen

9 Hamilton

8 Alonso

7 Rosberg, Bianchi, Sutil

6 Ricciardo, Gutierrez, Webber, Hulkenberg, Button, Perez

5 Grosjean, Massa, Maldonado, Bottas, Di Resta

4 Vergne, Pic

3 Van der garde

2 Chilton

96

Seriously? Gutierrez is an utter disappointment!

97

Hamilton ahead of Rosberg? Are you kidding? Look at their results this year. Right now those two are dead even.

98

I prefer Rosie for his better consistency, two wins and giving a position to LH when asked to by Ross.

99

Rosberg has not had a "proper" win yet. Monaco cars are kept behind because of extremely difficult overtaking, and he inherited Silverstone when Hamiltons tyre blew, and Vettels car stopped. Had Hamilton tyre not blown it would have been another "proper" win for Hamilton. If Mercedes have truly fixed the rear tyre issue then we will see how they measure up in the second half, but I think the scales have tipped in Hamilton favour now he has abetter understanding of the car.

100

@Doobs

I prefer Rosie for his better consistency...

You are right, Rosberg has consistently been behind Hamilton. Both in qualifying and the races.

101

Lewis had used up all his fuel achieving his pace and was now in fuel saving mode. If he had to fight off Rosberg he would have run out of fuel and not finished. The team should have allowed Rosberg by so he could chase down Webber.

102

The team order was to hold position, completely different to move over and let Hamilton past. Who is to say Hamilton would have let Nico past if there was not the team order. He had the pace, he was just marginal on fuel.

103

Yep, dead even.

Except in qualifying.

And the races.

104

"Poles, wins and points are all that matters. Looking at that they are dead even."

Poles - Lewis has more

Wins - 2-1 to Rosberg, but you'd have to be the most blinkered Nico-ite to claim that he outperformed Lewis at that race.

Points - Lewis has more. By all means adjust it for Nico's retirements, but you have to factor in Lewis's gearbox failure in Bahrain and puncture at Silverstone; net result is pretty negligible.

105

Poles, wins and points are all that matters. Looking at that they are dead even.

Rosberg has had two mechanical DNFs while Lewis has had none. And Rosberg was forced to stay behind Lewis in Malaysia costing him points.

106

Apart from the 40 points difference and the out qualifying 7/3 you are right. Hamilton and Rosberg are dead even 😉

107

I confess to being somewhat confused by your logic! If I understand you correctly, you are saying that only poles and wins should be taken into account when assessing the relative performance of team mates, is that correct?

If that is your position, I have to tell you that I consider it to be a little odd. Surely relative positions in qualifying are relevant, not just poles. On a given day the car will only be capable of a maximum grid position and that won't always be pole. But if one driver qualifies in 3rd and the other, say, 5th then the driver in front has still outperformed his team mate, hasn't he? Same with race results, 3rd place is still better than 5th. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain to me which part of your argument I am missing 🙂

108
Glory Kodzo Dzramedo

Yeah!

109

If you look at poles and race wins they are dead even.

Also keep in mind Rosberg has had two mechanical DNFs while Lewis has had none. And Rosberg was forced to stay behind Lewis in Malaysia costing him points.

110

I agree with your rankings the most out of the ones I've seen.

That being said I would swap Perez and Gro. Solely because I'm not a fan of Perez.

111

And its a bit harsh you put Webber alongside Gutierrez.

Webber is at least a 7 having to put up with underhanded team mates and a car that spits out problems right when he needs everything to come together.

He's done pretty damn good with what he's had and shown some great skill and speed to get the points he's had, and could've had Rosberg at Silverstone given one more lap.

112

I think your rating is much better than gazette selling sport

113

Why would GUT get a 6 when he's persistently a Q1 drop-out (when DIR isn't anyway), struggles to avoid crashing in races and has only just missed out on scoring once, whereas his team mate is regularly troubling the top 10?

114
Mike from Colombia

Much more like it.

Although I would put Vettel at 9.

Hamilton equal with Rosberg at a 7 by James ?

a) New team

b) 4 poles, 7 front row starts

c) 1 win - really 2 as Rosberg inherited Silverstone

d) First "proper" Mercedes win and truly outdriving Vettel

e) Clear gap between Hamilton and Rosberg performances now

f) 40 points ahead of his team mate

Alonso also seems to have a drop-off recently and gets an 8.

Can't work this one out at all.

116

+100 mate.

117
Colombia Concalvez

+1 Hermano

118
Mike from Colombia

Sorry - I meant by Gazzetta dello Sport..!

James is far too wise to come up with rankings like these !

119

Alonso ahead of Hamilton....

All things considered, new team and the difference he has made. Hamilton is ahead of Alonso for me.

120

Alonso had a great start to the season, all LHs form is recent and fresh (since testgate .... I know can open worms everywhere!!!! ) in the mind but FA has had some great drives this year.

121

Alonso also has made mistakes....which makes his ranking 8 hard to justify....even LDM recently questioned his motivation and Italian speak for "Pull your socks up".

Alonso should be ranked lower than Hamilton.

122

Yes FA has made mistakes but so has LH such as Monaco, and driving that Merc this season all the P2 is the least LH should get at every GP so his quali isn't that spectacular. I'd say they are close enough but FA had 2 great wins to LHs 1 so I'd be happy to have him just above LH. I guess Aswell the magazine is Italian so maybe they are a bit biased and your brittish so maybe you are too.

Either way the only rankings that matter are the WDC rankings and everything else is just opinion.

123

well said.

124

Agreed, look where Hamilton has dragged Mercedes unlike Alonso with Ferrari, yet Alonso is ahead. The whole rating biased.

125

Agree.....what has Alonso done to deserve an 8?? I recall a number of mistakes by Alonso in the first few races of the season.

Contrast with Lewis Hamilton in new team and car and the number of pole positions and potentially a larger number of points were it not for the severe tyre degradation that the Mercs have suffered.

This is an Italian Newspaper....of course they will put Alonso as a Ferrari driver near the top provided he doesn't upset them!

126

You mean ONE, right???

127

And Massa drives for which team?

128

mASSA....enough said...even the Italian newspaper are clever enough to figure out that his performance does not rate a high ranking just becuase he is in a Ferrari.

129

Exactly my point

They have graded Massa higher than he should be.

130

Agree

Italian newspaper, they grade the Ferrari drivers higher than they should be, particularly as they don't even have an Italian driver in F1 to grade.

132

I agree for the most part. I think Alonso is slightly higher than he needs to be. They are also a bit harsh on Massa.

133

Webber on par with Bianchi and scored behind DiResta - bit harsh I think.

134

Why harsh? He isn't driving a FI.

135

Very harsh. Hard to qualify and race in a car that does not operate properly(kers, gearbox and start settings), fitted with only 3 wheels, or not fueled correctly.

136

Hamilton is 40 points ahead of his teammate yet gets the same grade? What? Rosberg inherited the Silverstone win because of failures to other vehicles. I'm not saying he's a bad driver at all - I think he's decent, but surely Hamilton is doing the better job between the two esp. as he is in a new team? In a similar situation Perez is a grade below Button yet 20 points behind in the championship. I don't understand their logic. I reckon it should be down to who is doing the job relative to the machinery they have and relative to their team mate. In which case Bianchi should be much higher than he is in the table and Chilton lower!

137

I don't understand their logic either, no wonder their economy is messed up

138

It's just a bit of fun to keep the fans interested in the break. Lighten up.

139

But Rosberg has qualified better, and had 2 race wins. But for failures he would probably have been ahead in the standings. I think he should be above Hamilton, especially given the widely viewed calibre of his teammate coming into this season.

140

To clarify my point: Bahrain, Spain, Monaco, Rosberg was on pole for all 3, won the third, then snatched Silverstone. For that significant period Rosberg was dominating Ham, pretty impressive. I am British, Ham fan, but think Rosberg deserves credit

141

He definitely does ... Rosberg is no slouch, that's for sure. But over the 10 races, Hamilton has performed better than him, there's no question. Lewis likely would've won in GBR without the tire blowout ... he was lucky to finish 4th after that, but even still, that's 13 pts lost! That's about the same as what Nico could reasonably have expected to score from his 3 DNF's, plus he was the primary benefactor from Hamilton's and Vettel's incidents at Silverstone.

142

You can play that coulda woulda shoulda game on the other foot too, what would the standings be like if Hamilton didn't have that tyre failure when has leading Silverstone? What would the standings be if Hamilton got pole in Monaco rather than Nico?

143

Which F1 are you watching? Hamilton has qualified better than Rosberg. Yes Hamilton has caliber, but Rosberg has been in the team for 3 consecutive years and had the current car prettily designed around him while Hamilton is relatively new in the team. Hamilton was leading Rosberg in all of his DNF. If Hamilton didn't have tyre failure in Silverstone, one could argue that he could have won at Silverstone and Rosberg could probably finished in 3rd position behind Vettel.

If Hamilton was the one who's car was failing, most of you would blame it on his driving style, with theories of how he is hard on his car or how he cannot look after his car.

144
Colombia Concalvez

''If Hamilton was the one who’s car was failing, most of you would blame it on his driving style, with theories of how he is hard on his car or how he cannot look after his car.'' +1

145

You know nothing my friend.First,Rosberg is trailing Hamilton 7-3 in qualifying and If he didn't retire in Melbourne,He would have finished 6th or 7th,in china 5th or lower and in Hungary 9th so basically he would still be behind Lewis.So Nico would be 22 or 25 points behind instead of 40.Next time think before you act.

146

"But Rosberg has qualified better"

Absolutely. In opposite world.

147

Rosberg has qualified better this season, have you been dreaming, apart from the 3 races were rosberg out qualified lewis, he is being shown up as the good driver he is, nothing more nothing less, rosbergs dnfs he was behind hamilton, add the points he lost, then take away the points from the brit gp win he lucked into, the gap is about right, and unless ham has terrible reliability in the second half of the season, rosberg is going to be totally embarrassed,

148
Colombia Concalvez

''But Rosberg has qualified better'' - please do explain. you sound a bit irritated that Hamilton is doing good in Mercedes

149

Rosberg has qualified better?...

Which championship have you been watching?

150

Yeah, putting Hamilton and Rosberg on the same level makes no sense. After Monaco, sure, totally justified. Since then Hamilton has outqualified Rosberg at every race, outscored him, got kicked out of the lead at Silverstone (which Rosberg only won after Vettel retired as well) and won the Hungaroring where Rosberg was nowhere.

151

Rosberg had 3 DNFs because of mechanical problems, Hamilton zero. And Rosberg was ordered to not pass Hamilton. And Rosberg is not performing well since they changed the brakes that suit Hamilton (every race since canada, Rosberg is complaining about the brakes and no oine defends him, while when Hamilton was complaining about the brakes before Canada everyone defended him). And they give Rosberg the worse pitstop strategy, see Canada.

Nice contract Hamilton seems to have...

152

As noted above, if we remove all race compromising incidents from everyone's slate in 2013 so far, then Lewis would actually gain more points than Rosberg ... I calculated it as a +12 gain for HAM, and +8 for ROS.

A DNF when you're at best going to finish 8th (Rosberg was 9th when his engine blew in Hungary) and score a measly 4 pts - at best - ain't the same as a DNF while leading and cruising.

153

+1, exactly what I thought

154

Pretty sure that they are running different brakes on each car and like pointed out earlier, all of Nico's DNF's were when he was behind Hamilton. In the first several races I would have agreed that they were pretty equal but the last few races Hamilton has been the clear stand out.

155

K + 1

Nice to get a balanced view.

156

Point of correction, firstly, Rosberg is still using the same breaks he has been using from day one. Secondly, the breaks Hamilton was using while at McLaren was exclusive product for McLaren hence Mercedes can't use the same. Mercedes/Hamilton are getting to terms with Hamilton's breaks through setup.

However, I would be glad if James can shade more light on this topic.

157

oops! I mean to brakes

158

I've not seen/ heard Rosberg complain about the brakes anywhere. Irrespective, my main point was that the grading system is inconsistent.

159

All 3 of his DNF has been BEHIND hamilton, and rosberg inherited Hamilton's Silverstone win with the tyre blowout

you can give Rosberg the Malaysia point if you want, but still hamilton was ahead when they told rosberg not to pass.

160

nico is using the same brakes, he evn said at the times of canada that he was happy... making up stories...

161
Colombia Concalvez

All 3 DNF where when he was behind Hamilton anyway so what is your point ?. And so what if Rosberg had to stay behind Hamilton, how many times did Massa had to stay behind Alonso ?. And the funny thing is you are no Rosberg fan

162
Mike from Colombia

Exactly my thoughts on Rosberg.

As Andrew Benson pointed out - the bar was set low for Rosberg as Hamilton acclimatized to the team.

For most outside observers it is impossible to conclude that Rosberg has matched Hamilton and is at the same level.

So if Hamilton wins the WDC will he get pushed up to maybe a 7.5 ?

10 for me is perfect and Vettel has not been perfect. Raikkonen is the real star so far this season.

163

The marks are awarded for this year's performance, not for the overall abilities of the drivers. Hamilton is a better overall driver than Rosberg, but this year they are about even so far because Lewis did take time to get acclimatized to the team. I would, however, rank both Lewis and Nico with Alonso in second place, while Vettel and Kimi should be ranked first. I agree Kimi is the star of the grid at the moment.His race craft is impeccable and his qualy problems are not due to his driving but mostly to the characteristics of the E21 and the exceptional one lap pace of Red Bull and Mercedes. A one second gap from the car on pole is not due to the driver but to the pace of the car. If he was behind for a tenth or a few hundreths, then one could say that he is not able to extract from the car the needed extra tenth.

164

dimitris, if Nico had scored in AUS it likely would've been 6th (8 pts), in CHN perhaps 7th (6 pts), and in Hungary a max of 4 pts. Also give him the extra 3 pts he would've scored if he'd taken 3rd in Malaysia ... that's 21 pts.

Aah, but now also take away the incidents for Hamilton, Vettel and Webber in GBR, and Rosberg finishes 4th at best (-13 pts).

In total, Rosberg up 8 pts from his current tally.

On the flipside, add 13 pts to Lewis for a win in Silverstone (it's an even bet whether he or Vettel would've won that day in a straight fight); remove the gearbox penalty for Lewis in Bahrain, after which he likely ends up 4th and two extra points, then give back the 3 pts for the Malaysian hold-station order.

In total, add 12 pts to Lewis' total.

Who's that you say has been hurt more by RCI's in 2013?

* RCI = Race Compromising Incident

165

Nico had two retirements and scoed two victories. That about evens the score. By the way, I am not a Hamilton hater, in fact I like Lewis a lot and I think he is an extraordinary driver.

166

The marks are awarded for this year’s performance, not for the overall abilities of the drivers. Hamilton is a better overall driver than Rosberg, but this year they are about even so far because Lewis did take time to get acclimatized to the team...

I just don't see how you can claim they are even. Despite Lewis taking time to settle in, he has outscored and, more significantly, out qualified Nico by a significant margin. There is nothing even about Nico trailing Lewis by 40 points and lagging behind 7/3 in qualifying.

If it were the other way round, I find it quite hard to picture all the anti Lewis crowd being quite so sympathetic.

167

mostly agree, I would put Kimi and Vettel as 10

168

I always find the Gazzetta rankings to be, in my opinion, the least accurate of them all, and these numbers have served only to reinforce that conclusion.

169

What is Webber doesn't win in 2013, and that Malaysia win was going to be his last F1 win? 😉

As for rankings, basically they follow point standings - which is how we rank drivers in F1.

170

How do rank teams and cars then Sebee.....

171

Best package (car/driver/team combination) is usually at the top of the points standings. I think the point system in F1 is fine and reflects who the best is clearly. I fully agree with points ranking.

Gazzetta would have been better to highlight perhaps the drivers who are "outdriving" their equipment this year. I'm not sure we have such a case on the grid however.

172

Bianchi would have to be a candidate. Sure he's not going to be winning any races, but he has impressed many.

173

Thats right Sebee- team, car, driver. If your team is 4th and you are 2nd- then one would argue you have out driven your car because at the very least the average position between the two is 3rd.

If your are a triple WC team and are 100 points clear of the next team and your 36 year old team mate quite often only a tenth off your pace and had he truly "equal" reliable car would probably take more than 2 wins from you. Then I would say at best you have driven to the cars potential.im not saying he and Mark especially aren't good drivers Im just saying - they aren't better than their equipment is- certainly in the case of Seb. To be fair Bianci has out driven his Marussia because he was often beating Caterhams when his team mate could not. Bottas Canada drive shows that he was out driving his car occasionally also, because his more experienced ( and successful) team mate struggled . That is how you must look at it.

On the flip side you have people saying "wow look at that Grosjean who is really showing out his experienced team mate" when he being beaten 9 to 1.and out qualified 8 to2

Too many people lack perspective.

174

'As for rankings, basically they follow point standings – which is how we rank drivers in F1'

Incredible isn't it? Thank goodness for newspapars, otherwise we wouldn't have a clue 😉

175

Webber is getting the shaft in his rating vs. his point standing. I guess they don't feel he is doing enough in that fast car.

176

No argument here Random. RBR need to clean up the reliability on both cars ASAP.

177

It's true that Webber could have more points at this stage, but then again it's hard to maximise the performance of the car when it only has three wheels.

World champions or not it's RBR that should be a 6.

178

It's certainly not how I rank drivers.

179

Agreed with your points Andrew.

At the same time, let me put it this way. Why is Vettel frequently put down because his team gives him a great car while Hamilton is being liftend up while his team is not giving him a great car?

My point is not to compare Hamilton and Vettel yet again. It's been done. My point is that you can't give credit to the driver for one thing and blame him for something else to take away for his equipment. I find it must be blended into a season effort, and points reflect that best.

Hamilton was underfueled because they were pushing the weight of the car to get the pole. It was that close. It wasn't his fault, but if it worked out everyone would have called Hamilton the hero, not the team for pushing it that far. If I remember, Vettel was underfueled on an occasion too.

Clearly we are no fools and we know equipment is a big factor in F1. While I agree that ability and potential is not necesarily reflected in the points, other qualities are.

This is a very subjective topic. I think we could attack it from many angles. With exception of Toyota and Honda, does the point table not usually reflect biggest budgets for example? 🙂

180

It's a team effort Andrew. You have to deliver as a team. You can't just up the ranking on a driver when points are lost due to team error because by same token that driver has won points due to team magic.

I assume you're refering to Hamilton last year with his team challanges. However, we don't know how hard Lewis is on the hardware. I've pointed out that his driving style could be ever so slightly more punishing on the hardware and a contributing factor to his failures. It used to be the case in years past, why can't it be a factor today? Also, fact is that Hamilton is part of a team, and something about that team up last year may not have been working, and as a result it made his team nervous or twitchy. Was he distancing himself from the team knowing that he was heading out the door? When did Mercedes start messing with his head? Mid season? Last year? This is high pressure top of the food chain stuff we're watching here. The slightest things make a difference to team dynamic Andrew.

As for James and year end ranking - let's remember that our host has a mendate to inform, entertain, occupy us finiky folks during F1 race outages. So clearly in the off-season, during the rare time when he gives us his opinion, it may turn out to be a bit contreversial. Not everyone may agree with it, and we discuss why we may or may not agree. It's all part of the fun. Sure, Alonso or Hamilton may rank higher, but fact is - someone else may be drinking his morning milk from the WDC trophy. And in the end he who drinks milk from the WDC tropy is The Man.

181

I understand it's a team effort, and the WDC for the year is fully deserving of that achievement, that's what people drive for after all. And of course you have to acknowledge that driver and team performance are undeniably intertwined. But I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that the points table is the final arbiter on driver performance with no room for subjectivity whatsoever.

As it happens I wasn't talking about Hamilton last year, but as you bring it up it's a good point. Hamilton lost a shedload of points last year that were through no fault of his own. This isn't the 80s, you can't thrash the hell out of a seemless-shift gearbox or cause the electronics to fail. I don't blame Hamilton for any of those failures any more than I blame Vettel and Webber for their respective alternator failures. And it wasn't just car failures, it was operational failures as well. Are you seriously telling me that you think the fact that McLaren underfilled his car for Spain qualifying or botched a seemingly endless number of pitstops reflects on Hamilton *as a driver*? That somehow Hamilton "distancing himself" from the team caused all these problems, and that if he'd been more pally with the pitwall after the race they'd have somehow remembered to put enough fuel in the car or how to operate a wheelgun?

With regards to the WDC being "the man", I agree, I don't think for a second that our current WDC cares that people rate Hamilton or Alonso ahead of him, but that doesn't mean it wont happen, nor that those rankings aren't justified.

Can you honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say that the points table of every season from start to finish reflects driver performance and ability for that year? If you think so fine, but I frankly think that's absolutely ludicrous, and don't buy it for a second.

182

So to you Alonso is about to rack up his 6th WDC?

183

Of course not, WDCs are WDCs. But the fact is that drivers can be robbed of points and titles through no fault of their own.

(And not to want to suck up too much, but James presumably agrees with me, otherwise his year end rankings would just list off the championship table every year).

185

I would have thought Hamilton has done a better job than Alonso and is on par with Raikkonen. He certainly is miles ahead of Rosberg who has 3 years experience in the Merc, seeing as he is leading him by 40 points. All of Nico's DNFs happened while he was behind Lewis. And Jenson is only half a point behind Lewis? Come on!

186

LH was nowhere early in the season. ALO's been more consistent so deserves placing higher.

187

I think alot of people are suprised at how close Rosberg has been to Lewis and that counts against the Briton.

But I think from Canada it has been far from close and Hamilton is now starting to stamp his authority on the team and I can't see Rosberg challenging him more than a few times a year through the rest of their time together at Mercedes.

188

Lewis is adjusting to a new car, if leading his teammate by 40 points is a good reflection on Rosberg (who himself is a great driver), then many must secretly think Lewis is super-human...

189

[mod] How on earth has he been as good as Kimi? Look at the errors Hamilton has made (eg the one he made backing up the Red Bulls too much in Monaco). Then look at the errors Kimi has made.... Errrrm. Yeah.

- Please moderate your language..or we will - Mod

190

Well, what counts against Kimi is the fact that he has been less than stellar in qualifying. Hamilton has made 1 error all year in Monaco, while Kimi has been consistently under-performing in qualifying. That Lotus has had the pace to be on pole in some races.

191
Colombia Concalvez

What special had Kimi done ?, in Germany he was helped by the team. Kimi has done nothing special, and he is bad in qualifying

192

+1000000000! Preach it!

193

True, Rosberg is overrared, too

He was lucky in Silverston & had a really bad race in Hungary.

Nothing to do with his dNF, he was making a lot of mistakes in the first laps.

At all his dNFs he was behind Hamilton, and in the last 3 races he did nothing really special.

194

I'm not sure that you can use the points difference between Lewis and Nico as a justification for ranking Lewis higher. Nico's had three car failures, and when his car hasn't let him down he's finished in the points. Lewis has finished every race, but one of those occasions he was outside the points after an appalling Spanish Grand Prix. That said, every points finish for Lewis has been in double figures, despite him being a little slow to adapt to the tyres, and bearing that in mind I'd tend to agree that Lewis should be a shade or two ahead of his team-mate - I think he's in the ascendancy at the moment.

195

I take your point about retirements but Lewis has out qualified Nico 7/3. On that basis alone, I don't understand how they can be ranked the same.

196

The points difference is fairly reflective of driver performance. Hard to say exactly how many points Nico lost through car failures and not passing in Malaysia, but it's around 20 or so, certainly not the 40 he's behind Lewis.

Then, although Lewis hasn't had any retirements, he's had some reliability issues out of his control. He had a gearbox change in Bahrain (and still finished ahead of Nico), while his puncture in Silverstone resulted in a hefty points swing Nico's way, around 20 in and of itself.

197

All of rosberg DNFs has been BEHIND Hamilton. So even without his DNFs he would be behind

198

Almost agree, a few adjustments

10 Vettel

9,5 Raikkonen

8,5 Alonso

7 Hamilton, Rosberg

6.5 Sutil, Button, Di Resta

6 Hulkenberg, Grosjean, Bianchi

5.5 Ricciardo, Maldonado, Bottas, Webber, Perez

5 Massa, Vergne, Pic

4 Gutierrez, Van der Garde, Chilton

199

How can Vettel get a 10 when he could not pass Button ?

Apart from a non fault tyre blowout at Silverstone, Hamilton would have won 2 races and has as ever, been the most impressive driver out there.

Plus, James, Reports from the Finnish media saying that Kimi has signed for Ferrari ?

I cannot imagine him agreeing to be number 2, or that anybody else would take Alonso, so we may, uniquely, have a genuine fight at Maranello ?

200

Indeed how could someone in the 19th fastest car (SV)in a straight line not pass someone with the 10th fastest car (JB) in a straight line... after all the chap driving the car with the fastest car in a straight line (LH) managed to pass him....

The joys of speedtrap data !

201

Drivers decide how they would like their car set up for the race - agreed?

SV chose the wrong setting, that is clear as he couldn't overtake and was only the 19th fastest car - agreed?

It was therefore SV fault that he couldn't overtake JB - so what are you arguing about?

202

Really?

Sigh.....

203

"Drivers decide how they would like their car set up for the race – agreed?"

No. They don't.

204

It doesn't soothe there argument so they ignore that fact now with the faster car Hamilton couldn't get past Alonso in Germany but it doesn't matter.

205

How does every one know that Lewis would have won at Silverstone, do you all have crystal balls ! He may have ran out of fuel or had a breakdown. His fans always come out with excuses like last year

206

I am a Lewis fan but I agree with you. All the woulda shoulda coulda stuff means nothing. The scores on the doors are the only thing that counts.

207

You're right, it's not a dead cert, but it's clearly the most likely outcome. Vettel was falling back towards Rosberg rather than catching Hamilton, neither car had significant tyre problems so it's doubtful he would have fallen backwards a la Spain/Germany, and after the puncture he showed very fast pace.

208

How about we give him a 9.999 then instead so he loses .001 for not passing Button.

Hamilton has been very impressive I will give you that but Vettel and Raikkonen more so especially Seb.

209

Or even 9.5 - no half marks were given so, 9.5 and above rounds to 10 out of 10.

210

Vettel's car is set-up in a different way, to maximise corner speed using higher downforce, rather than higher straight-line speed. I think the Mercedes was clearly just a faster car in Hungary than the RBR, all conditions considered.

Having said that, it was awesome watching Lewis nail Button immediately and having Seb get frustrated for a few laps...great racing!

211

Definitely awesome to watch!

There is no way Vettel deserves a 10.

We need to look at the way the drivers understand the size and positioning of their cars. Lewis got past Jenson easily because they both have a great feel for the size and relative position to another car. This was shown several times whilst both were at McLaren. Lewis can forget that when the red mist descends but when on form is brilliant.

On the other hand Vettel simply does not have this skill and nor does Webber. When one looks at the 2 RB cars close together it is never clear if they can avoid hitting each other - and, of course, now that Vettel is showing some signs of learning this skill Webber could understandably choose not to allow Vettel to escape unharmed!

The biggest difference between Lewis and Vettel is that Lewis had a very public period of growing up as an F1 driver. Vettel has yet to do this - it could well happen next year if the Mercedes engine is much better than the Renault unit.

212

" next year if the Mercedes engine is much better than the Renault unit."

What do you mean, "next year"? The Mercedes engine has been the best in F1 for the past few years now. Much of the "Hamilton is a brilliant passer" stuff stems from that fact. Put him in a Renault engined car and his ability to breeze past people would be severely curtailed.

213

+10 Hamilton's overtaking instinct is just uncanny. His instinctive move on Webber at Hungary - off racing line long way round the corner just to get his car in time to stop Webber from turning into the next corner - is just sheer instinctive genius to watch.

Vettel's ability to drive at a high level and not buckle under pressure is his greatest strength. If Hamilton or Alonso had been turned around by Senna at last year's Brazil GP, they would have had so much red mist - and would have crashed while over driving to catch-up. Only Vettel could have come back from that to win the WDC.

That sense of the size of the car you describe - Vettel is very good, but Hamilton is better. Webber so so. Massa mediocre, and Grosjean is horrible. But even Hamilton made a mistake at Spa when he crowded into Kobayashi and left him with no where to go. Knowing where your car is on the track relative to another car moving at high speeds is a wonderful skill to watch.

214

My Finnish sources sticking to their line that a deal for Kimi at Ferrari will always be unlikely while Montezemolo is in charge

215

To what extent is Boulier tied to Lotus? He managed to bring Kimi back to F1, could he move to Ferrari as team principle and bring Kimi with him?

Boulier should be held in high regard for the performances of Lotus in recent years.

217

If any of that happens, it will be the biggest shift in the driver market in years.

For the record, I don't see it happening.

Maybe Kimi to replace Massa, with Alonso staying. Alonso at McLaren? Never.

218

Hi H.W.S, Wow..Kimi did say".. some people might think my decision is stupid.." Im wondering now if this is it.

I think if Ferrari want to change.They should drop both Fernando and Felipe take Kimi and Jules Bianci.

Kimi is experienced and although most hardcore fans don't want him to go back it is justification for the extraordinary mistake Ferrari made both with keeping Felipe and loosing Kimi. Kimi has proven time and again that he can work with anyone, Felipe, Montoya, Kovalienan, Grosjean. and both drivers can move forward with the team and there is no greater example than Grosjean at Lotus. Bianci is a star and would learn tremendously with Raikkonen. Whereas with Fernando he takes control and insists team mates are secondary- no doubting why we never saw Grosjean rise with him. Perhaps Fernando will go to Lotus- he is very familiar and very successful at Enstone- something he seems unlikely to achieve a Ferrari.

219

YES... Very interesting (*IF* true).

220

Would have thought that the deal is also unlikely whilst Kimi ‘is in charge’ – unless he sees potential in making serious money out of a second premature forced retirement.

221
Hussein S Lokhandwala

As in, Luca wouldn't ever re-hire Kimi, or Kimi would not work again for Luca?

222

It is exactly like James says. And the story in the Finnish media was based on the story in the German magazine Bild, which said that Ferrari has made an offer to Kimi. There are no reports of Kimi signing the contract.

223

Thanks, "unlikely while Montezemolo is in charge" is both illuminating and possibly prescient.

224

nice word....

225

I understand why Luca would hold a grudge. But business is business and Kimi at Ferrari makes more sense to me than at RBR. RBR have to take Daniel.

Alonso and Kimi...that may be what's needed in 2014 against this possible Mercedes issue.

226

Yes W, but they were hoping Kimi would go drive elsewhere. Meanwhile, he sat back in his 12M home and listen to Bach on his new $500K speakers - thanks to Ferrari salary.

But in deed, it was Ferrari. And I say again, business is business. Ferrari could really use Kimi.

227

You can understand why Luca would hold a grudge? WHY???

Wasn't it Ferrari that broke Kimi's contract to drive for Ferrari to make way for Alonso that cost Ferrari £15million to Kimi to do nothing.

228

The top end i agree with however putting Grosjean ahead of Hulkenburg i find absurd. Agreed we have not seen any giant killing performances from the Hulk this season but the car is nowhere. He has put it up there on the very few occasions the car has been up to it. Grosjean on the otherhand has had maybe 3 decent races out of ten and for a guy with 2 full seasons under his belt in a solid top 4 team has no excuses for the rookie mistakes we are still seeing.

229

Fully agreed ... Hulk's driven better than Grosjean so far this year. Does no one remember Grosjean's Monaco weekend?!?

230

Grosjean regards his move on Massa in hungary as his greatest racing moment. It's a proud boast, except it occured entirely off the race track !!

Spectacular yes, but sadly, off circuit.

231

If the kerbs are off-circuit, what are they there for? To look pretty? If it drives, it is fair game - see Silverstone and crushing the tyres by going past the kerb on corner apex. They've even put mini-kerbs in in places to stop cars simply using the tarmac run-off wholly as the track.

232

Yeah

The really sad part about that is he still finished the race ahead of Massa even after serving a drive through penalty and a post race penalty for the Button incident.

Really just confirms what a very poor job Massa is doing.

233

I agree with this assessment, broadly.

I think that Rosberg deserves to be on the same level as Alonso if not higher. He has more poles and has won as many races.

With 6.5 out if 10 it appears that JB is well regarded in Italy. I think he has had a good season, but under the radar with the car.

234

I dont see how high Kimi and Alonso are given how poor they are relatively qualifing.

If they both sorted quali out, then they may be winning more or in Alonso case much better off in the results.

Sure, overall Kimi is doing mega, but his 9 should be say an 8 - he is underperforming in a car that can win...

235

The Lotus' performance advantage in the race is a disadvantage in quali.

Fundamentally the car is very easy on its tyres which is great in the race but doesn't generate enough heat in the tyres for 1 lap pace esp when the car is at its lightest as well. This is also why the Lotus is difficult to drive in wet conditions.

Similarly the Merc cars are the absolute opposite to the Lotus.

236

Lotus and Ferrari both have/had trouble getting tyres hot which may explain some of their relatively slow quali pace.

237

Hmm seems like you dont really follow qualifying, some cars are better at qualifying then other cars. Mercedes and Red Bull are clearly the best in qualifying. That mostly leaves Lotus and Ferrari drivers with anything from 5th and lower. On race day the Lotus or the Ferrari might again have the same pace as Red Bull and Mercedes, but it is difficult to get ahead of them when everyone has similar pace and they are starting out in front.

Kimi and Alonso might perhaps not be the best qualifiers in the field, but they are top drivers, do you really think Webber and Rosberg would constantly be able to out qualify them most of the time?

Rosberg's average starting position has been 4th, Webber 5.1, Alonso 5.4 and Kimi 6.2.

Better yet when Lewis and Rosberg suddenly starts going backwards while starting off from pole, do you suddenly think they are terrible racers? Or could the car perhaps have something to do with it?

238

Both Kimi and Alonso are out-qualifying their team mates quite comfortably (Massa had a run early in the season, and Grosjean has had a couple of good qualifyings with the new tyres, but still). It's only speculation that someone could drive the car much faster over one lap, or that their cars could be set up for fast one lap runs while still maintaining their respective strengths in the race.

239

If you want to be a winner and a champion you need to out-qualify your competitors not your team mate unless he is both.

240

They're handing out points on Saturdays now?

241

I would prefer to Qualify 10th and end up 1st or 2nd than qualify 1st or 2nd and end up 4th. Funny you get more that way too !

242

No, you don't. To be the champion, all you *need* to do is have more points than anyone else after the last race. To win, you need to be ahead of everyone in the race.

Qualifying is simply a tool to help achieve these ends. Of course every driver would like to have the pole in every single race, but sometimes that's just not possible, and not least because of the differences between different cars. Not being able to out-qualify *faster* cars does not mean you're not driving well; making the most out of your equipment *means* you're driving well.

243

Kimi has out qualified his so called gun team mate 8-2 when everyone reckons he's doing badly. He kept Seb at bay on tyres 32 laps old!- I don't think anyone should underestimate his contributions in 2013.Ferrari are struggling in quali also . People must understand that not every car is perfect on Sat and sometimes great Sat car or horrible on Sund. Clearly Red Bull have good balance on both days !!!

244

These rankings seem appropriate at this point of the season. Do feel sorry for Mark Webber. Low ranking not all his own fault.

245

What a silly list the Italians have come up with - Vettel 10 and Hamilton on 7?!?

In addition Vettel like Prost? Did they not see the Webber incident?

Sport is all about opinion though one would expect so called experts to have more sense than this.

In my opinion, taking all factors into account I'd put Vettel and Hamilton as the top, after all expected Hamilton to have performed as he had and had his dreadful not fit for purpose tyres not let him down he'd be in a much better position in the championship and he'd be the Mercedes driver with the 2 wins.

On Alonso, let's not forget that he's favoured by his team in a way few (if any) other current F1 drivers are.

Well that's my opinion!

246

Seems you "forgot" that Lewis is being favoured by Ross.

247

"In addition Vettel like Prost? Did they not see the Webber incident?"

This made me laugh. Do you even know what kind of things Prost did when he was racing Senna? He was no angel. That Webber incident was a child's play compared to the stuff Senna and Prost did.

248

I think it shows how comfortable the first half of the season has been for vettel as with him a 10, alonso/raikkonen/hamilton/rosberg could all be no more than a 7-8 as all have made mistakes often sandwiched between decent drives. Kimi should have won a race, rosberg disappointing recently, hamilton issues with car early on, alonso brilliant starts/first lap and some races but qualifying massa has been closer

249

Actually Kimi won a race, Australia.

250

It is an insult to Alain Prost to compare him to Vettel. Not only was Prost a much better driver, he is a better man. There has never been anyone else like Prost. He won races for four different teams.

Vettel is a good driver no doubt, however his personality, driving, actions and attitude is nothing like Prost's.

251

What's this obsession some have with drivers personalities? Or, more accurately, with what they imagine drivers personalities to be be? I follow a number of different sports and I've never heard anyone claiming that "Lebron is the best basketball player, because of his personality".

Sports fans rate sports stars on the basis of their abilities and accomplishments. If you want a competition where they rate the contestants *personality*, try Miss World or some other beauty pageant.

252

As I did mention, Vettel is still not on par with Prost with regards to driving ability (which involves a lot more than pole positions and fastest laps).

And as far as rating sportspeople goes, it is not just about how many goals they kick or races they win, but how they conduct themselves in attaining their achievements. Hence the term 'sportsmanship' (not to mention common decency). It is not merely about following the rules.

253

I'm amused that you believe Prost (or any driver from that era, to be honest) displayed more "sportsmanship" or "common decency" then Vettel.

254

Well said sir.

255

Exactly!

256

And that's because he only drove for four different teams...

257

And it's an insult to Vettel that you write this [mod]. F1 drivers are first and foremost drivers, the personality and actions follow later. And Vettel's driving has been sublime, he's shown the killer instinct of a multiple world champion, like it or not!

258

The most telling thing for me is how often did you ever see Prost clip anyone whilst driving1000+hp wild turbo cars. No one of the current drivers bar Raikkonen has that level of precision and speed in their driving. Button has the precision but not the speed, Hamilton/ Vettel have the speed but not quite the precision. Alonso comes close but still not always as sharp.

259

I would give more marks to hamilton and place him above Alonso. And a mark more for Massa.

260

I find that list pretty much tallies up with my own opinions, aboutthe only difference I'd make is that Vettel would be a 9 not a 10 for me.

261

10 means near-flawless, which for me no driver has really achieved so far, so my ratings are:

9 Vettel, Raikkonen

8 Hamilton, Alonso

7 Rosberg

6 Button, Ricciardo

difficult to rate the mid-lower order, but none stand out in particular.

Don't understand how Gazetto have rated Ros above Ham, other than the lucky win he picked up in Silverstone. Hamilton has outqualified and outscored Rosberg and would still have done so even without Nico's unlucky DNFs. He has done an excellent job of integrating himself into the team and the settling into car.

262

Given the car Hulkenberg has I think he deserves a higher score.

263

Generally agree with these rankings, although surprised at Webbers low score. Also good to see an Italian paper not being biased towards the Tifosi!

A decent mention for JB too, it really is a dog of a car!

I would also have maybe scored Ricciardo slightly higher in my opinion.

264

Thanks James for posting this. Hamilton's rating is at least 1-1.5pts lower than expected. To be only 0.5 ahead of Grosjean and Button is a joke! I'm also very surprised that Alonso has been rated higher than Hamilton as he has squandered a lot of points this year.

They also seem to think that Mercedes' tyre woes are Hamilton's fault and fail to recognise the difference between a car struggling with its tyres and a driver struggling. Rosberg has had the same issues.

I don't think Rosberg should be equal to Hamilton either as Hamilton has outqualified him 7-3 and outraced him 7-3 also. Rosberg was behind Hamilton in each of his three retirements and only won in Silverstone due to Hamilton and Vettel's problems.

My rating would be:

10 Vettel

8.5 Hamilton

8 Raikkonen

7 Alonso, Rosberg, di Resta

6.5 Button, Bianchi

6 Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Webber, Ricciardo, Bottas

5.5 Sutil, Perez

5 Massa, Maldonado, Vergne, Pic

4.5 Van der Garde

3.5 Chilton

3 Gutierrez

265

Great post!

266

It's good to see that Button is in the top 10, it would have been extremely biased not to rank him in there. In my humble opinion, Button deserves top 5, no one in the field could have done a better job at extracting the maximum from the car at every opportunity. This season, Button is showing why he is an all-time great and if not for his own team's reliability, poor pitstops and bad strategy last season that cost him the championship, Button would have been a multiple world champion. Hopefully, Mclaren can get it's act together to demonstrate JB's status as THE best driver in the sport.

267

You mean Hamilton! Because McLaren let Hamilton down last season more than JB. However "if not" and "had it been" has no place in F1.

268

You are joking right ?

269

Hamilton was in the same situation in 2009 and had 2 wins and 3 podiums by the end of the season. So I do not know where you get this idea that no one else could have done a better job than Button in this year's MacLaren.

270

The operative words there being "by the end of the season". McLaren did a fantastic job in turning what was a worthless car at the start of 2009 into probably the quickest car on the grid by the end of it. It will be interesting to see if they can repeat the feat this season.

271

That was great.

Thanks for the entertainment.

272

Button an all time great? And McLaren errors cost Button the championship last season? I'll have whatever you are smoking please!

273

Oh dear - one extreme to the other! Somewhat exaggerated but there is some merit in what you say.

This list is supposed to be about an honest ranking of a driver's delivery of his ability. Bearing in mind just how equal Jenson and Lewis proved to be over 3 seasons if they are both driving as hard now they should still be seen as equal as their points difference would be down to the car. Taking that as a benchmark would make a good means of ranking them - which would make quite a difference to the overall listing.

274

Guess Massa is better than Kimi then, seeing as he beat him in points over their 44 races (AUS07-GER09) together with Ferrari, by a score of 213-195?

275

Well, not saying he was never any good, just as I'm not saying Button is no good. But even at the end of 2008, if you'd've asked me which Ferrari driver I'd pick going forward, I would always have picked Kimi over Massa. I think most would.

Both Massa and Button are good, solid drivers. I just believe Kimi and Lewis are better than either of them, respectively.

276

Arguably at that point Massa was better than Kimi. Just because Massa has never returned to complete form after a spring smashed into his helmet it is not fair to say he was never any good. Don't forget some still argue he deserved the title that Hamilton won - not something I agree with but he was still a challenger even after finishing the last race that year!

277

Here is a link to JA analysis of LH v JB during their time together at McLaren - you may want to reconsider your, somewhat, simplistic method of simply adding their points over 3 seasons together and deciding it was close 🙂

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-and-buttons-head-to-head-record-at-mclaren/

278

Where do people get the equal over 3 seasons nonsense from? If you beat your competitor in 2 bouts out of 3, how does that meake you "equal" over the 3 bouts?? Even by all the parameters used in F1, Lewis still came out on top most times - Poles, Races led at front, Race pace, Qualifying pace, etc. Adding up a point tally over 3 years is quite stupid; especially when it chooses to ignore everything else!

279

@Jonathan - Exactly hos does your epistle adress the question? How does beating your competitor twice out of three times make you "roughly equal"?

So because Button is the only teammate to beat Lewis over a season makes them equal over 3 seasons? Amazing logic only blind Jenson fans could come up with - like they are "so close to be equal". And on tyre perservation, you need to pay speacial attention to the 2012 season at McLaren before you claim Lewis "learnt something" from Button on the issue.

Again, for your information, Lewis beat Jenson over all parameters that matter in F1 in their time together in the same team; he beat him on poles, fastest laps, race laps led, race pace and race wins. He also beat him 2 years out of 3.

In fact, in what is widely regarded as Lewis worst year in F1, and Button's best, they ended up with the same amount of race wins, and Lewis stilll annihilating Button on poles.

Using a Vettel/Webber analogy is a moot point. Button being better than Webber (which i certainly don't think so), has nothing to do with him being "equal" to Lewis.

280

Since you don't understand I shall have a stab at explaining.

Button is the only team mate ever to have beaten Hamilton over a season. They are different drivers but both have some excellent qualities. I'm sure even Lewis would say he learnt a bit about tyre preservation from Jenson.

The whole reason for this article is that most people do not consider that the guy who wins the championship is always the stand out driver of a season - we have to accept that a car can make or break a champion.

When it comes to 2 drivers in the same car it is a lot easier. At the level these 2 have been driving at a couple of positions here or there can and do make a significant difference to their points haul. Indeed you yourself do not claim that Lewis beat Jenson in all aspects. Compare McLaren with the RB pairing and there is a stark difference nobody would claim that other than the odd race here or there Vettel has completely outclassed Webber in pretty much all areas except for sportsmanship! One thing most people do accept is that over a season or more luck evens out. Therefore for Jenson and Lewis drivers to be so close we must accept that they are pretty much equal - or be so biased in our opinions that our views they are worthless.

281

It's a special points system, used only in 'Jenson Land' 😉

282

Good one! For a minute I thought you were serious 🙂

283

Mostly agree, though Hamilton and Alonso should be swapped. Alonso deserves a 7, Hamilton deserves an 8.

284

I'd like to change Vettel's rating to 9.5 as he slightly under performed in Hungary.

285

When you start looking at all the races and the cars that the drivers have to deal with, this is not easy, but here is my take -

10 Vettel

9.5 Raikkonen

8.5 Alonso, Hamilton

7.5 Rosberg, Button

6.5 Grosjean, Sutil, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo

6 Webber, Bianchi, Di Resta, Maldonado, Bottas, Perez

5 Massa, Vergne, Pic

4 Gutierrez, Van der Garde, Chilton

286

Who are these people who still can't put Hamilton high in their personal ratings? He was flawless last year and still put down, and now once again apparently he has been outshone by both Kimi and Alonso? Please. Kimi has flunked his qualifying numerous times and has thrown away chances for the win. Alonso has been inconsistent and ragged. Hamilton and Vettel have been on another planet than the others this year, yet the pre conceived stereotypes of each driver keep coming through, without any real thought. Vettel/Perfection (hard to argue with) Kimi Mr Speed/Consistent and oh of course Mr Can-Do-No-Wrong Alonso. Lest we not forget Mr Car-breaker-tyre-destroyer who has been 'run close' by his team mate despite beating him 7-3 in qualifying and on Sundays. Watch the races, people.

287

A 7 is ridiculous, as is blaming him for not getting on top of the tires. Weak from whoever was doing the ratings.

Only one driver has qualified in the top 4 at each race (before any pen's), is joint first in terms of Top 5 finishes (w/VET), and joint second on points finishes (behind RAI). And in a new team and car to boot, one that was miles off last year.

7??? You're having a laugh!

288

Enjoyed reading your post.

289

+1

You might want to add some "sarcasm tags" in your post/comment because not everybody will understand you are being sarcastic.

Totally agree....nice comment.

290

+1

Haven't seen anything amazing from Vettel though.

291

Lewis should definitely be higher. He has done a good job. But lets also not get to carried away. Both Kimi and Alonso have out qualified their teammates 8-2, while Lewis is at 7-3. And it is always easier to start from the front, which is something the Mercedes clearly excels at. It is actually pretty difficult to judge because all of the cars had weekend where they were not so good and weekend where they were good. It is only Red Bull who is always at the top. Lewis also experienced a few races where looked a bit lost.

292

Seems pretty accurate to me. Initial observation is that Webber may be a little low on the list. And, I expect the Merc guys to move up this list now that they are on top of the tires. Otherwise, it's pretty much spot on, in my opinion.

293

I don't agree with a few marks, but mostly they seem to be fair.

Vettel definitely deserves a perfect 10 for his performance so far. Very consistent and nearly flawless compared to other drivers. Even the Malaysia incident takes nothing from his overall performance. If anything, I think it puts him up there with the likes of Senna and Prost. It actually reminded me of San Marino GP 1989, when Senna broke the pre-race agreement that he'd suggested himself and overtook Prost. Champions don't become multiple champions by being good boys. It was a smart decision by Vettel. Ruthless, but smart. And have to say, that kid has some steel nerves to shrug off the criticism and perform so well, despite the controversy.

A 9 for Raikkonen seems fair to me. He was mostly great in the races, but often wasn't good enough in Qualifying.

A 8 for Alonso might be too much. He'd made quite a few mistakes this year, which cost him many points, and had a terrible race in Monaco. 7.5 would be more fair I think.

Hamilton deserves an 8. Yes, he struggled in the beginning of the season, being outperformed in qualifying by Rosberg and sometimes struggled with tyres when Rosberg didn't. But he's been good lately. Granted, Mercedes has clearly the fastest car in Qualifying and now might have the fastest car on the race days. We'll see.

Webber probably deserves 6.5, but then again, he was completely destroyed by his teammate both in Qualifying and race.

Other marks seem pretty fair to me.

294

On VET: "that kid has some steel nerves to shrug off the criticism"

I thought he lacked the courage of his convictions in his comments post-Multi 21.

That he broke a pre-race agreement is a black mark.

That he didn't have enough cojones to just say "I won. Suck it up, you purse-carrying nancy boys" is a bigger black mark.

He's only young though (and probably over-protected). Perhaps his spine will straighten with more experience.

295

Yeah, shouldn't have broken that agreement, but whatever. What I found weak was his "I was scared" radio msg after Mark forced him against the pit wall when he went to pass. Dunno if he was truly scared, or just playing team politics ... either way if you're gonna go thru with a move like that, don't play the victim afterwards.

297
Alexander Supertramp

I reckon Lewis has been better with the tyres than Rosberg, with the exception of Spain. Bahrain, Canada and GB support my case. I won't even count Hungary because Lewis had clean air, even though he's the one that made it happen.

298

Many people have commented that Kimi has not been good in qualifying, which I find somewhat puzzling. The fact is, Lotus car is designed to be easy on its tires during the race, which inevitably means problems in qualifying (it becomes very hard to heat the tires to proper temperatures during the warm-up lap). Given that Kimi has beat Grosjean 8-2 in qualifying this season tells me that he has been quite strong in qualis. After all, Grosjean is very fast on one lap, his problems are related to his racecraft.

299

I think Vettel would get a 9

Hamilton and Kimi 8.5

Rosberg 7.5

Button, Grosjean 6.5

Webber 6

Massa 5

And the rest as they are

300
Alexander Supertramp

seconded!

301

Andy Fov's (size XL) Mid Season Driver Review

10

9.5 Vettel, Hamilton

9 Alonso, Kimi, Rosberg

8.5 Di Resta

8 Hulk, Perez

7.5 Massa, Webber, Button

7 Maldonado, Ricciado, Pic

6 Grosjean, Bianchi, Bottas, Sutil

5 Vergne, Gutierrez, Van der Garde

4

3

2 My nan, Max Chilton

1

302

I'd go with:

9.5 VET

9.0 HAM / RAI

8.5 ROS

8.0 WEB /PER / BIA / ALO

and the rest.

Vettel has performed in a leauge ahead of anyone else this season, plenty of times RBR isn't fastest in qually, isn't fastest in race trim. Gets the job done though.

HAM & RAI have both made errors this season.

ROS is a whsiker behind Lewis, take out his car issues and the "Stay in positon" Nico and they'd be within 15 points I reckon.

303

The problem you have with taking out Rosbergs car issues is that you are leaving Hamiltons in. Be honest, if it was the other way around and Rosberg was ahead by 40 points and 7/3 up in qualifying, would you really be saying they are only a whisker apart?

304

Lol at max chilton if he's in f1 next year he must have a lot of cash though I think bianchi is in a different league and is partly making him look like pants

305

haha, thats a bit harsh on your nan mate. she could well have chilton.

306

Raikkönen & Alonso are vverrated.

Vettel & Hamilton belong to the top

Alonso 3rd

Rosberg 4th

Raikkönen 5th

who dissappoints in qualifying

307

Mercedes and Red Bull are the fastest cars in qualifying. Ferrari and Lotus just dont have the pace to qualify in the front row.

When the Mercedes drivers goes backwards in the races it doesn't suddenly make them bad drivers, it is just part of the characteristics of the car. The same situation applies to Ferrari and Lotus in qualifying.

308
unF1nnished business

Agreed, this seems to be the key for 2013. It's proving to be very tricky finding the right balance for qualy and race day, although I believe RB are closer on average than anyone else.

309

How on earth is Kimi 2nd in the WDC with such poor driving?

You seem convinced that the Lotus is faster than it looks, and not understand that it's only because of your personal bias. There is no faster Lotus on the track, no one showing there's more speed in that car, even if you are so certain about it.

Kimi has not only out-qualified his team mate 7–3 (only really losing over one lap after the tyre change but still out-doing Hamilton's efforts, for example), but he has also averaged 6th on Saturdays. With 4 faster cars (that is, 2 Red Bulls and 2 Mercedes') that's just about where you'd expect him to be with his car. This is *far* from disappointing.

310

Lotus is one of the fastest car, they should be leading the WDC if not for the many errors of the drivers. Grosjean shows the car is very fast in qualy and Raikkönes shows it's the fastest car on race pace most of the time, only the drivers are unable to combine it. At Hungary Lotus was fastest IMO. KIMi qualified too bad & Grosjean made too many mistakes.

311

I'm sorry but it seems you watch different races, I always watch them and follow the online timing and I can tell you, the Lotus is not the fastest car on race pace, probably just in Germany, they can get near the front because its tyre management, but for sure the RBR is faster and now the Mercs also. If Kimi has made so many mistakes why is that he has the record of continuos races scoring points?.

312

Your logic doesn't make any sense. How is it possible that "Grosjean shows the car is very fast in qualy", when Kimi has beat him 80% of the time in quali? Why is Grosjean so far behind Kimi in WDC points (biggest gap of any team mates) if the car is the fastest on race pace? Maybe it's just that Kimi is making the Lotus car look much faster than it really is?

313

10 Vettel

9 Raikkonen

8 Alonso, Rosberg, Hamilton

7.5 Bianchi

7 Button, Webber, Ricciardo

6.5 DiResta, Bottas, Maldonado, Hulkenberg

6 Pic, Perez, Sutil, Grosjean

5.5 Van Der Garde, Vergne, Massa

4.5 Gutierrez

3 Chilton

My changes include Bianchi getting a 7,5. I think he has shown exceptional pace at the back and has blown teammate Chilton to the weeds, despite Max having pretty much all pre-season testing to himself. Chilton clearly is't quick enough for F1 and thus gets a 3.

314

Obviously the people at Gazzetta dello Sport have a bit too much time on their hands...

I'll be interested to see what Goferet makes of this 🙂

315

@ Random97

Lol...

Incidentally I agree with Gazzetta dello

Sport.

316

@ Goforet

How do you rank Nico and Lewis the same?

317

10 Vettel

9 Raikkonen

8 Alonso

7 Hamilton, Rosberg

6.5 Grosjean, Button, Di Resta

6 Hulkenberg, Webber, Bianchi

5.5 Ricciardo, Maldonado, Bottas, Sutil, Perez

5 Massa, Vergne, Pic

4 Gutierrez, Van der Garde, Chilton

I can't say I do. I'm not going to bore everyone with my 'official' list, but...

Hamilton and Rosberg would have been higher for sure, and what is this 5.5? Whether you agree with the rankings or not, why not have Ricciardo et al at a straight 5, Massa et al 4, with the others a 2 or 3?

It's just silly.

318

hmm, somewhat agree. Here's what it should really say:

10 Raikkonen

9 Vettel

7.5 Hamilton

7 Rosberg, Alonso, Webber

6.5 Button, Di Resta

6 Hulkenberg, Webber, Bianchi

5.5 Ricciardo, Maldonado, Bottas, Sutil, Perez, Grosjean

5 Massa, Vergne

4 Pic

2 Gutierrez, Van der Garde, Chilton

319

Raikkönen on top?

Undeserved, much too slow in qualy

320

RAI is to kind on the track to get a 10, he's also to slow in quali

321

More or less agree except bottas should be higher than team mate due to qually

322

Bah, marks out of 10 are such a bizarre way of judging anything in sport. We have these things called 'results' in sports that are the only reason for entering the sport. And if you want to judge inter team and teammate rivalries up and down the grid you can just have a personal opinion. Awarding points is just a way of making personal bias sound scientific.

I'm giving Webber more points because I prefer his haircut to Vettel and Jenson has a hotter girlfriend therefore double points at hot races.

Sorry - my Internet cynic side came out there 😉