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Posted By: James Allen  |  23 May 2013   |  12:08 am GMT  |  178 comments

This year’s tyres remained a big talking point in the Monaco paddock on Wednesday, with Fernando Alonso suggesting Red Bull’s criticism of Pirelli was a result of them not being able to handle defeat.

Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel defended his team, insisting that the reigning world champions were not the only ones to be unhappy about the aggressive tyres while his team-mate Mark Webber said Formula 1 needs to have a think about where it’s headed.

Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton said that it’s wrong for a driver to be able to start second but drop back and end up getting lapped – as he did in Spain – because of fast degrading tyres.

After the Spanish Grand Prix, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz said F1 was “not racing any more” because the focus was on managing the tyres through the race rather than pushing to the limit. Red Bull have not been able to exploit the full potential of the car because of that.

But Alonso said: “Barcelona was a good race, not so good for some of our competitors. Some of these competitors claim they have a super car but the last three pole positions were for another car when the tyres are new. When you win too easily for some years, it’s difficult to lose some races.”

However Vettel, who leads the drivers’ standings while his Red Bull team head the constructors’ championship, says it is not only his team who are unhappy with the tyres.

Vettel said: “It is because [between] quoting Red Bull or quoting Marussia, you guys prefer to quote Red Bull. So it looks like we are complaining. But I think generally, I hear the drivers’ voices in the meetings we have together.

“Even if you pinpoint Lotus and say they have the best car for these tyres and these conditions, still their drivers complain. They have the same problem as us, just to a lesser extent. That doesn’t mean no-one else is complaining.

“If you compare some overtaking in the past to now, waving people past to save tyres and do your own race as fast as you can, that’s not the idea of racing.”

Webber added: “I don’t think there is anyone who is comfortable with these tyres. Fernando passing Kimi for the lead of the Spanish Grand Prix wasn’t much of an event; Sebastian and Fernando racing each other in Shanghai wasn’t either.

“We have to find a better balance for the fans and the drivers, because at the moment I think we’re too far the other way.”

Hamilton said: “I definitely don’t think you should be able to be second on the grid [as Hamilton was in Spain] and then get lapped. But that’s the name of the game at the moment. The tyres are controlling everyone and making it really hard to control.”

Pirelli are making changes to the structure of the tyre before next month’s Canadian Grand Prix. The teams met with the Italian manufacturer on Wednesday afternoon to learn more about the scope of the changes, but it seems they will not be extensive.

The Lotus, along with the Ferrari, is very good on its tyres, and Kimi Raikkonen remains hopeful the changes won’t affect his team too much.

The Finn said: “The fairest way would be to keep the same [tyres], but there is a lot of pressure to do something. They did some changes [before] and they didn’t really affect us. I don’t think it is going to make a lot of difference whatever [changes] they make, but I might be wrong.

“I am sure we are not going to start complaining if we are going to have some issues. If they make stronger rear tyres then we could go faster, and it could help us. I don’t really see that it suddenly makes one car faster than the others.”

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178 Comments
  1. Manisha says:

    cream will always rise to the top…

    so much fuss about lotus and ferrari being kind to pirelli….we only saw kimi and fernando on top of it while their teammate suffer.

  2. All revved-up says:

    I’ve always felt that Mark Webber calls it like it is, and his comments are usually well thought through. Even during the team orders debacle.

    His comments on the tyres just shows that is a difficult issue, and there are valid arguments not to change (one should not move the goal posts mid season), and valid arguments to change (we all tune in to watch a race at the highest levels not to see which car manages the tyres best that weekend, and the drivers playing a secondary role).

    Mankind makes mistakes all the time. Let’s just admit a mistake has been made, and move on to improve things. Not to favor one team over another. But to improve. Not to be closed minded. But open minded. To be able to recognize and appreciate the perspectives of others. To improve our own thinking on a difficult issue by genuine debate and discussion.

    1. Wayne says:

      I agree entirely on your take on Webber. If I wanted a stright forward opinion with limited political or self interest, I would go to WEB before nay other driver I think. I’ll really miss that when he retires.

      RAI might be my second choice but it’s a miricle if the guys says anything at all some weekends.

      1. Tom says:

        +1

        I think Webber is very under rated not only as a bloke but as a driver. He’s had a pretty tough gig at Red Bull and every time he is interviewed he gives really good honest opinions on matters.

    2. Stu says:

      I couldn’t disagree more. A team and driver’s role is to develop and race the car to maximum extent within a range of available parameters. There are limits to ride height, fuel, weight, wing dimensions and on and on and on. Why should the tyres be any different?
      Everybody is in the same boat. To teams and drivers complaining, get over yourself and get on with doing a better job at your craft.

      1. MISTER says:

        I agree with you Stu, but I also think the tyres are way too influential now. The performance of a car has always and will always be limited by tyres, but these past years I think it’s too much.

      2. Bayan says:

        Would redbull or merc be compalining if they were winning on these tyres? Don’t think so. They would say “it is the same for everyone”.

      3. Tenno1868 says:

        Red Bull is winning….and leading both championships!

      4. Wade Parmino says:

        With regards to the maximum extent within a range of parameters in which the cars must operate. Consider a scale of 1 to 10. 10 being the upper limit of performance of the car that the team has built.
        Fans want the cars at a constant 10. Drivers and teams would want to have the car at about 8 to 9 for most of a race. The tyres however are causing a situation where the cars are having to be driven at 4 to 6 on the scale in order to keep to a competitive strategy. The tyres are the limiting factor and by far too much. The true potential of the machines that teams have engineered is not being seen. A frustrating situation for everyone involved.

        Alonso and Ferrari (whom I am a supporter of) are also probably just as annoyed with how the cars are held back by the tyres. It is just that they currently are the best at maximizing results from the current situation, so understandably as racers they will resist any change to the tyre formula.

    3. Fozxr6 says:

      What would fix F1 is makebtyres that last! Then have a minimum number of scheduled tyre stops…2 or more depending on the circuit. And bring back refueling, which cant be done at the same time as tyre stops. (safer!)
      The drivers can then race as hard and as fast as their car can go. Works in other forms of racing.
      If I was running Pirrelli I’d pull the pin on f1 and tell em to find their own tyres next year!

  3. Katrina says:

    Oh please Lewis…..im sure everyone can get poles by focusing solely on AERODYNAMICS while dismnissing the importance of mechanical.

    Your car will always be hard on tyres whether it got softr or harder.

    1. Wayne says:

      Yes, and he and we all know it. However, his point is: dropping so many places in the race is extraordinary.

      1. H.Guderian says:

        Everyone with the same tires I think, so this is due only to a bad car… Don’t cry. Work harder.

      2. Nuno says:

        Didnt ALO have a balistic start at Barcelona from 6th couple a years ago to 1st and ended up being lapped?
        If you build your car to be the best for one lap, then you will have a problem…just fix it.

      3. Justin Bieber says:

        Wayne, how many places did his team mate drop?

        What is extraordinary is Hamilton inability to look after his tires compared to his team mate.

      4. Wayne says:

        That is an incredibly, ridiculously simplistic view of what is a very complex issue. I recall ROS dropping as many places just a few weeks before.

      5. Tim says:

        Yeah, I know what you mean. If you look up tyre management in the dictionary there should be a picture of Nico.
        Oh wait a second, I’ve just remembered. What about Bahrain? What happened to Nico’s legendary tyre management skills there?
        Perhaps it’s the car and not the drivers who are at fault. Just a thought!

  4. Martin says:

    The ERS differences between the cars next year may provide some new overtaking avenues, if I understand the rules correctly. The engery harvesting from braking will be capped for all the teams, but the additional contribution from the turbo generator will be a performance variable separate from the tyres that could create overtaking. I guess the hope is that it will create moves on short straights, partly by surprise, to generate some wheel-to-wheel action. DRS by its nature only works on long straights and circuit designers tend to create definitive passing points at the end of straights rather than areas that are encourage side by side through a few corners.

    I found two other comments by Webber and Hamilton more interesting.

    Webber commented on tyre saving in feeder series compromising the development and identification of suitable talent was interesting to me. It showed a broader awareness and interest than is usually shown by F1 drivers. Admittedly Webber is coming to the end of his career and has a vested interest as he supports a few drivers such as Mitch Evans.

    Hamilton is quoted on Autosport “For me it goes to show that there isn’t a race set-up versus a single lap set-up, so I am going to work hard this weekend to get that qualifying lap set-up because position is everything here.” This can be looked at a few ways. To make a judgement on the basis of one race seems slightly naive. It also seems at face value to ignore the behaviour of the Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari cars. Read a different way it could be interpretted as Hamilton saying there is nothing that Mercedes can do with the set up as the car is fundamentally very aggressive with its tyres, e.g. its suspension geometry, not the wheel camber, toe-in or castor. The latter point would contradict what Ross Brawn said prior to the Spanish Grand Prix.

  5. Sebee says:

    I thought I was in the loosing camp because I didn’t want the tires to change and I was OK with them as is. But everyone complained. And now Vettel will get new rubber. And my driver will win. Thus I will not be in the loosing camp after all.

    Thanks to all who complained about the tires! :-)

    1. Kay says:

      1. Who’s to say RBR / Vettel will definitely win from having new spec tyres? Other teams might have something better than what RBR has in terms of equipment to deal with the tyre issue. Much like McLaren came up with a car that was the fastest last year, only to trip over themselves on many occasions to lose wins.

      2. As much as I prefer Alonso over Vettel, I honestly don’t mind or give a damn if Vettel wins as long as it’s fair racing.

      As long as Pirelli make the best tyres rather than playing with test tubes of chemicals to see various results, then I’m fine even if Vettel wins. That is the whole point of the issue with Pirelli here. They’re seen as favouring one team over others.

    2. Wayne says:

      My pleasure, I live to make my other JA posters happy! Although I’m not sure how significant the chnages are going to be, this may well just be a PR stunt to quell the screaming masses while not really doing much at all.

      1. Sebee says:

        Wayne,

        You have been most sporting, considering our opposite views.

        I was sure you would pick up on the fact how I managed to make the whole thing about ME with my comment. As if I am the centre of the F1 universe. :-)

        I do hope that the “change” is a placibo.

  6. mhilgtx says:

    On to the tires.

    James do you know if they are going to switch back from the metal structure back to the Kevlar?

    It seems like to my HS Physics class memory that steel conducts heat and retains heat better than Kevlar. But that was almost 30 years ago and Kevlar might not have even been around then :).

    I also think these tires are more squared off than the in the past. Not sure if that can be changed but probably is a source of heat.

    Hopefully they make minor changes, fix the exploding tires and Red Bull continues to beat up on Ferrari on the tracks they can.

    1. KRB says:

      I heard that they would be changing the steel tread for the Kevlar, but ONLY for the rear tires. It will affect temperature windows, etc.

    2. Bradley says:

      A straight change from steel to kevlar is unlikely to do much, temperature window wise. But the associated changes – profile, construction etc., might well do so. Because it will be to do with tyre construction, no way for a layman to predict what the effects would be.

  7. hero_was_senna says:

    Hamilton said: “I definitely don’t think you should be able to be second on the grid [as Hamilton was in Spain] and then get lapped. But that’s the name of the game at the moment. The tyres are controlling everyone and making it really hard to control.”

    Webber said: “Lewis Hamilton, he was with eventual winner Fernando Alonso on lap five or six in Barcelona two weeks ago and then got lapped. That’s not right.”

    Hey guys, in 2011, Alonso qualified 4th, passed everyone and passed everyone at the start into the lead and after being passed during the pitstops, finished a lap down.
    I don’t remember Ferrari complaining about tyres..

    1. Ryan Eckford says:

      However, Alonso finished in 5th spot a lap down after starting in 4th spot, Hamilton finished 12th spot a lap down after starting in 2nd spot. Based on this information, what happened to Hamilton is just not right, and what happened to Alonso was OK.

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        Alonso in 2011 was driving the 3rd best car, so effectively the 5th fastest if you assume there would be 2 Red Bulls and 2 Mclarens. Alonso on average qualified 5th, yet scored 10 podiums that year, whereas Massa scored none.
        The Mercedes is notoriously heavy on its tyre wear. Last year, the only convincing race they had was China. With all the development skills of Schumi, they never sorted it out, so this year is no surprise.

        Ferrari have stated their number 1 objective is getting qualifying right, something that has plagued the team for some years, but a lot of that is to do with their tyre usage not being ideal for a single lap on new tyres.

        Even in 2011, if a Red Bull was caught behind other cars, they would destroy their rubber, their whole process was to qualify at the front and get out of DRS activation as soon as possible.
        Wasn’t it significant that in Bahrain, Vettel got in the lead as quickly as he could and controlled the race thereafter?

      2. Yak says:

        The pace Rosberg was running at the start of the Spanish GP, I would think Vettel could easily have cruised past him (and Alonso would have easily followed). It would pretty much have been like qualifying at the front.

        When Red Bull aren’t taking their shot at the old strategy of get up front and disappear into the distance… to me that’s pretty significant too.

        Regarding Bahrain, I think Allison said he suspected RB could have done one stop less like Kimi did, considering the Lotus wasn’t far from being able to go another stop less than that. Instead they went harder early on and used the extra set. But if Spain was 4 stops on a cruise run from start to finish, what would it have been if Vettel had actually pushed? Running around at the end on inters because there’s nothing else left to run?

        If he’d done 4 stops by choice, on a more flat out strategy, I’d probably say “Quit your whining, RB”. But it was 4 stops worth of octogenarian-style driving, and still 3 in a similarly tedious drive for Kimi in his tyre friendly Lotus. The most tyre friendly car on the grid, on the two most durable compounds available in the range, cruising, and still doing 3 stops? That’s mangled.

        And this is from someone who, out of any of the guys likely to be in the running for it, would like to see Kimi take the title. But I want to see him winning it by racing, not by cruising past the others at a leisurely pace as they let him go because actual racing won’t work with their tyre strategy.

      3. Horoldo says:

        Yak,

        You have made the most sense so far for me.
        Most peoples arguments about these tyres are sort of missing the point. You are spot on.

      4. Anil says:

        Alonso led into T1 and led for pretty much the entire first stint….

      5. Justin Bieber says:

        Rosberg finish 6th on the winner’s lap.
        Hamilton finigh 12th and had to received tips from Roberg over the radio to help manage his tires..

        Hamilton should ask Rosberg to teach him how to drive his car without destroying his tires. I dont know if his ego will allow it.

      6. KRB says:

        Feel better now?

      7. Kev says:

        Just because Alonso started 4th and finished 5th, it is OK? The problem with Ferrari was that it didnt generate heat in its hard tires and it is the exact opposite for Merc.

        Shows that the problem with the car not the tires.

    2. KRB says:

      This is true. Well, they did complain a little about the hard tire, but nothing like with this year’s tires. They might have complained more if Alonso had tumbled out of the points that day.

      My main beef with this year’s tires are that they do not lend themselves to wheel-to-wheel action. If you do that, you’re punished with these tires.

      To be fair to Hamilton, he was just asked to comment on Webber’s comments, when Mark said a slump like Lewis’ from P2 to P12 was too much, etc.

  8. Jonno says:

    Pirelli this…
    Pirelli that…

    I don’t want to keep hearing about tyres. Bernie and the FIA have driven F1 into a deadend with these joking tyres. Any more races like Spain and I won’t be watching. I want to see proper, balls out racing, not an endurance event. We’ve got them already and they bored me stupid.

    I’m looking forward to a Red Bull v Ferrari v Lotus v Mercedes race on Sunday. Drivers working to overtake or not be overtaken. Anything else and I’ll switching off, as I did halfway through the pathetic Spanish GP.

    1. Wayne says:

      I agree with you but Monaco is not the race to watch if that’s what you (and I) want to see. Monaco, more than any other circuit, is a massive 3 day advertising event. very little actual racing and overtaking happens around those streets. Personally, I don;t see what all the fuss is over Monaco. SPA or Suzuka should be the ‘jewel in the F1 crown’.

      1. Kay says:

        +1

        This weekend for the drivers is literally going to be a Sunday drive, not race.

      2. Horoldo says:

        Yet all F1 drivers say this is a drivers track. They say drivers can make a difference here. Driving an F1 car inches from walls for hours is like a Sunday drive to you?

        1 mistake on this course and there will be consequences. No drive off area’s. Screw up once and you done.

        Sunday drive? Are you kidding?

      3. Kay says:

        Horoldo, have you forgotten last year’s race already?

        Everybody cruised to the flag behind Webber in a train. Nobody attempted a move because they don’t want to risk ruining their tyres thus lose another position by making a tyre change in the pits.

        You can probably dig it up from somewhere on this site alone, if you don’t wish to go through Google.

        So no, I am not kidding. It is going to be a Sunday drive.

  9. dean cassady says:

    Unfortunately, that’s the way it goes.
    In Formula One, they set the specification, and that is the specification that everybody has to deal with; the essence of Formula One is the team that can get the package that scores the highest under the constraints of the announced specifications.
    It is interesting how Bernie has flip-flopped on this issue; I’d like to know what people think about this 180 degree turn, since the FIA said there was no grounds for changing the tire specification to last year’s spec.
    They’l use the (mostly) bogus safety claim now, even though I’d bet close scrutineering of the delaminations would probably show extenuating circumstances.
    Red Bull and Mercedes have launched a public relations and lobbying campaign to change the tires because a business case showed a high probability of success, which will ultimately save them money developing their car to use the tires differently, to be able to win the championship.
    It’s all really just blah, blah, blah.

    I propose the alternative approach, okay, say, possibly, a mistake was made, and do better next time, but don’t change the formula for anything but safety;
    just say no, to “blah, blah, blah”.

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      I think Bernie is starting to show his age..

      1. dean cassady says:

        but who could do what he does?
        he has made this organization the most vaunted spectacle (and money-making machine, for thise position correctly) that the world has ever seen!
        I love the racing last year, and this year.
        I know there are contrivances, and delivering on the behaviour characteristics as requested is difficult; I still think Pirelli should get about 85%-90% grade, based on delivering what they were asked to deliver.
        Go Kimi!

  10. ShaBooPi says:

    I guess we should not criticize Red Bull at all, they are God-given saints and deserve to be praised. We should let them denounce their detractors and now say that everyone was complaining, but since they are the best we only thought we heard them. We were wrong and they were right. Every team owner said F1 is no longer a sport recently, we just only heard the quote from Dietrich. Thanks Seb for your pearls of wisdom, you are a genius.

    1. Me says:

      You’re right of course… Ferrari have never complained about anything have they?

      1. MISTER says:

        Of course they did, but have they ever complained about something which they did/have a year or two earlier?

        Because that’s exactly what RBR are doing. They complain about 4 stops in Spain when they did the same 4 stops in 2011. That would make them hypocrites, right? And foolish!

      2. luqa says:

        What you fail to remember is that if RB or Mercedes Benz raced to their potential speed in terms of quickest lap times they’d have to have stopped 6 or 7 times during that race. But as you know that’s not possible because of the limited amount of tires available to a team over a weekend, and it was probably not the best strategy given the race distance.
        By the way Perez said the same during winter testing in Barcelona..

      3. Horoldo says:

        The difference between now and then is, 4 stops then were flat out, to pump out lap times to beat the guy’s stopping less. Now it’s 4 stops and race to a delta so I don’t run out of tyres.

      4. hero_was_senna says:

        Since the Todt regime has ended at Ferrari, they do not complain about trivial matters. In fact, all I have heard from the team is about how they have to focus on sorting out their issues.
        LdM has been specific in his criticism over the years, mostly that F1 is too dominated by aero which is not applicable to cars in general.
        He’s hardly telling a mistruth.
        But listen to Domenicalli, even after Spain, he said it’s only one race and it’s along championship.

      5. Hansb says:

        +1
        But people still seem to remember the Ferrari of early this century and before.
        To me, McLaren too has changed after R.D.
        It seems all this complaining of both teams is ‘bettered’ by this can company

  11. pcoops says:

    James : Is there a chance of a feature which might explain why the tyres must have such a narrow operating window? It appeared that after the 2012 season the changes pirelli were making to the tyres for this season were to make them work in a much larger optimal temperature window, whilst keeping the degradation. They dont seem to have achieved this and this issue is rarely mentioned. The degradation, much like last year, is not really the main problem, it is that the tyres must be kept in a very specific temperature range which, as i understand it, means that if the drivers push too hard the tyres’ degradation multiplies with the extra heat this causes and they literally start to fall apart.. Getting temperature into the tyres has always been a big priority but i don’t remember overheating ever being close to the issue it is now. Is it not possible to have fast degrading tyres that are not so critical on temperature range?

  12. Jodum5 says:

    So despite Vettel’s claims that other drivers are complaining it’s still him, Webber and Hamilton (presumably ROsberg too) that are speaking publically. Why? The Red Bull guys simply seem upset they aren’t sweeping the field, and the Mercedes guys just can’t get the tires working at all (despite a few podiums and poles – which seem like a big improvement than their previous seasons).

    I find it somewhat irritating that the media aren’t making a bigger stink out of this constant whining from the current championship leaders (believe it or not!) and a team that is having a promising year despite having gotten something very wrong.

    1. Spyros says:

      Formula 1 is the top formula–in every field, including politics.

    2. Siobhan says:

      What Vettel said is given the choice to quote RB or Marussia, it is always Red Bull that is quoted so seems like they are the only ones.. This is true.. would anyone care if the lower teams said the tyres were not good? People would just say “Your car is not good, stop moaning”.. Most of the top teams are quoted. Look at Ferrari, Lotus and Force India who are doing a good job with the tyres.. it seem only Ferrari and to a lesser extent Lotus are been quoted.. I haven’t read or hear much from Force India..

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        Like comparing Man Utd to Accrington Stanley. The media knows that magazines, papers and internet blogs will sell more advertising by reporting the front runners.
        You may read about Force India on here and other quality websites, but try to find articles on the more tabloid like websites.

      2. Anne says:

        Paul Di Resta has been greatly quoted by Autosport.I don´t know why the rest of the media didn´t bother about Paul´s opinion

    3. Justin Bieber says:

      Rosberg is not complaining because he is beating Hamilton

      The English media are the one driving the narrative in F1. Hamilton under performing is bad for their ratings so they complain.

  13. JohnBt says:

    Rules have been set, tires been set and a couple of teams Lotus, Ferrari and Force India had chassis designed to suit them. Now that Newey has not got it spot on this time and Vettel expects the 4th WDC to be his, it’s easy to figure that out. But big boss is ranting that it’s not racing, but if RB is leading I’m very sure songs of praises will be sung loudly. I rather teams and drivers use their brains to counter what they have with intelligence and strategies.

    An excuse for safety purposes to favor Red Bull?

    Well, they have to box when delimitation starts creeping in, don’t they?

    It could also be preserving gear boxes and brakes which happened in the past. Somehow one needs to save something in order to win. LIVE WITH IT! and try to improve as you go along, it’s still a long way mates.

    My guess for raceday:
    Hamilton > Alonso > Kimi

    1. Horoldo says:

      “but if RB is leading I’m very sure songs of praises will be sung loudly.”

      Yes well…Um, but they are leading both Drivers and Constructors…. So?

  14. Justin Bieber says:

    Hamilton said: “I definitely don’t think you should be able to be second on the grid [as Hamilton was in Spain] and then get lapped.”
    =========================================

    He might have a point if it wasn’t for that fact the his team mate finished in 6th place and didn’t get lapped..

    1. Knuckles says:

      Also, did he say the same thing about Alonso getting lapped on the hard tyres after leading in Spain 2011?

    2. hero_was_senna says:

      Oh well, at least Roscoe is a celebrity now!

      1. AndyK says:

        Get me out of here!

    3. Doobs says:

      And despite the tyre wear, Rosie did ‘only’ three stops.

  15. Luke Clements says:

    Let competition come back to F1 tyres. Free markets solve problems, rigged markets or monopolies create problems and then create more problems trying to solve the first problems, and the spiral goes down.

    Socialism/Communisim never works, and F1 tyres are a micro version of the same.

    Let manufactures use whoever they want for tyres, at whatever price they voluntarily choose to pay, and the F1 tyre problem will literally be fixed overnight.

    1. Kay says:

      Haven’t we seen that already in Bridgestone vs Michelin? That didn’t work out particularly well.

    2. Anne says:

      Really? So is F1 is ruled by Comunisim why I haven´t seen Marussia or Williams wining races this season?

    3. Curro says:

      Man, do you watch the news?

    4. Dren says:

      You are a bit off on your comparison. One tire supplier was used for cost reduction. It works out great. If these tires are such a huge issue with everyone, they can just supply a different tire compound. Easy.

    5. Spyros says:

      Has already been tried. Twice.

      Saying that it didn’t work, would be a gross understatement.

      Also, it required lots and lots of testing, i.e. money… which F1 doesn’t have, even if unlimited testing made a come-back.

  16. Mike from Colombia says:

    Thank heavens that there is still one voice of reason in the form of Mark Webber.

    I feel that we are probably in for another raft of changes later in the season as many fans start switching off their TVs.

    What will Pirelli do then? It will be an embarrassing climbdown for them. This whole affair seems to be a mess.

    Will watch the last 10 mins of qualifying and the first 15 mins of the race. I can then work out from the timing screen who is soft on the tyres and spend my Sunday doing something else.

    1. Spyros says:

      You think fans would instead stay glued to their TVs if RBR waltzed into another championship double, 3-4 races before the end of the season?

      Pirelli supplied F1 with high-deg tyres, which is what they were asked to do. They only went too far because THE TEAMS couldn’t agree to give them a proper (i.e. recent) car to test with. So if some of the teams are complaining, they are sore losers.

      (except that they’re still leading both championships…)

      1. Mike from Colombia says:

        Why do Pirelly lovers always use the Red Bull dominance as an argument against changing the tyres?

        It does not have to be one or the other.

        2010 was miles better than anything since.

      2. Spyros says:

        The point remains: Pirelli produced the tyres they were instructed to supply. To do so, they were given a car to work with–and it turned out to be unrepresentative.

        Next year, Pirelli will be asked to do the same thing (supply a suitable race tyre). Except this time they won’t have any car to work with… just as the new, extra torque-y ‘power-units’ come into play, complete with a propensity to produce will-spin… oops.

        Is it any wonder that Pirelli are now making exit noises? Here they are, doing what they’re supposed to be doing, and instead of gaining from exposure in motorsport, they have become everyone’s favourite black sheep.

        F1 went from being a sport to being a business. Now it’s such big business, that it has become political. And a patsy is always useful in politics.

    2. Siobhan says:

      I think that tyres will change but for the good of Pirelli, not any team.. How bad is this for product marketing if they are falling apart in F1 racing.. I have read a lot of people won’t be buying Pirelli tyres for their road cars

      Very bad for Pirelli advertising and if tyres are to be changed it will be for them!

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        I have always wondered about people that are so easily manipulated by the media.
        I have smoked for many years but never smoked Marlboro or JPS because they were more vile than the standard stuff I consume.
        I drive a car fitted with Dunlop tyres because I don’t need ultimate performance or to pay double the price because they happen to be on F1 cars.
        I buy with regards to quality branding, and what I have available to spend.
        We all have choices in life, and what they place on an F1 car makes no difference to the real world anyway. It’s entertainment

      2. Siobhan says:

        That is true and I don’t bend to media either but many many people do and Pirelli knows this.(my car is fitted with which ever tyres are on sale on that particular day I need them)

    3. colin grayson says:

      let’s go back to bridgestone bricks ….then we will only have to watch the last 10 minutes of qually

      1. Spyros says:

        …and the first 5 laps of the race.

      2. Kay says:

        That’s all changed since aero stuff was cut back from the start of 2009, which was enough to let cars race. The addition of KERS and DRS helped a great deal in great racing.

        Manipulating tyres is the problem here.

  17. luqa says:

    Here we go again.. Maybe next year the London Rubber Company should become the official tire supplier to F1. And the racing will be even less significant.
    Mark Webber makes a huge point. Where is F1 heading when the secondary ancillaries become more important than the cars, engines and drivers in a race and championship?

    1. Spyros says:

      Perhaps F1 is heading back to the 80s, when the secondary ancillaries WERE more important.

      Does anyone thinks that F1 was boring in the 80s?

    2. KRB says:

      He made a great point about the junior classes, and how there it should be all about consistent raw speed. The tires there are clouding the picture as to which of them has the “right stuff”.

    3. hero_was_senna says:

      Where is F1 heading when the holes and ducts behind the sidepods ultimately define how good your car is?
      Personally, I believed that when they changed the rules for exhaust position, to remove the EBD effect, they should have simply said that the exhaust exits behind the diffuser.

      1. KRB says:

        Agreed … or exit high up on the car at a high angle. EBD was just nuts.

      2. Horoldo says:

        “Where is F1 heading when the holes and ducts behind the sidepods ultimately define how good your car is?”

        The pen is mightier than the sword?

      3. [MISTER] says:

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22654575

        this is in response to your comment about RBR racing in 2011 flat out and now they race to a delta. Look at the difference between qualy time and average race time.

      4. Sebee says:

        MISTER

        Thanks! Finally someone did some number crunching and came to same conclusion I came to some 8 weeks back. Not saying I’m clever or anything. Just like to see data before I go nuclear on an issue like many have done with these tires.

      5. Horoldo says:

        Nice article MISTER, but I think they have left something out of their calculations.
        2013: 7.07secs
        2011: 7.24secs

        In 2011 they were qualifying faster due to being able to use DRS anywhere on track, where this year they cannot.
        So yeah, the gap between race pace and qualy was greater in 2011, but they were able to push harder than now.

    4. Goldeneye76 says:

      Maybe Durex could provide the rubber in future?

      1. Kay says:

        Next thing you’ll see is chicks in cars alongside the driver making it a two-seater F1.

      2. Doobs says:

        Or how about no tyres at all. Some company can find a green alternative.

  18. goferet says:

    Okay now, with Lotus and Ferrari having got their wish with Pirelli not bringing in the more durable tyres, both these two should comfortably finish ahead of Red Bull come the end of the season and if both or one of them doesn’t, it won’t look good on their CV for people will say despite having tailor made tyres, they still couldn’t do it.

    And yes I believe Vettel in that everybody including the Ferrari and Lotus drivers aren’t entirely happy with the 2013 rubber for lets just wait till they have a uncompetitive race only then will we hear a dramatic change in tune.

    Alright then, lets just hope Barcelona was a one-off, if not, we’re stuck with the numerous pit stop races and driver tip toeing around each other for the rest of the season (not to mention the tyre conversation dominating every grand prix conversation)

    But one thing is for certain, there are going to be lots of dissatisfied racing fans and drivers this season >>> matter of fact, I wager that lots of teams are going bin the 2013 season and just focus on the 2014 one

    1. Spyros says:

      Just to clarify: the tyres aren’t ‘tailor-made’ to Ferrari or Lotus. These two got their samples of development tyres back in Brazil, at the same time as everyone else.

      Saying that the tyres are tailor-made to Ferrari is like saying that blown diffusers were tailor made to RBR. They did a splendid job developing the latter; Ferrari and Lotus did a pretty good job ‘accommodating’ the former. It’s that simple.

    2. Grant says:

      I have to agree with you on that.
      No driver would be happy with these tyres. Some want them kept only because they’ve discovered they give them an advantage (cowards).

      The pitlane goes crazy by lap 6/7.
      That’s not want we paid for.

    3. Katrina says:

      BS.

      Rbr was leading the WDC and WCC now despite tyre issues. They are not as bad as they make it out to be.

    4. Manished says:

      Tailor made tyre??

      I stop reading right there.

    5. hero_was_senna says:

      Barcelona is renowned as the hardest track for tyres. Always has been.
      If they need 4 stops at Monaco, then thats a different story

    6. Anne says:

      Lotus and Ferrari didn´t get “their wish” It´s not about someone´s whish. It´s about rules. If Pirelli and RB want last year tyres they need ALL the teams to agree because that is what the rules says. And that´s the reason why all Pirelly can do is to make a minor change due to safety. Because when it comes to safety Pirelly doesn´t need everybody to agree.

  19. 180110 says:

    Kimi Raikkonen for world peace _/\_

    P.s. Absolutely no idea who’ll win the Monaco GP from amongst the top 4 and also the Force India and I like this uncertainty.

  20. Sebee says:

    Bit off topic…but huge news.

    Fiat is going to become a British company…for tax reasons.

    Ferrari are now going to be a British F1 team? :-)

    1. James Allen says:

      It’s not the car making arm of FIAT – yet. It’s FIAT Industrial

      1. Anne says:

        Yes but Ferrari are making their cars in Maranello. And you know how they love and respect their old times traditions. Enzo would turn in his grave if they move their Maranello factoty to England or elsewhere. It would be too controversial in Italy such a move. I don´t think Luca wants a PR headache

      2. Spyros says:

        You’re right, that would be as bad as Bentley making its cars in… no wait, bad example. It would be like Rolls-Royce’s engines being… nope, that doesn’t work either. It would be like Lamborgini belonging to someone who isn’t… erm, nevermind. It would be like Ettore Bugatti’s company being run from..?

        HELP!

      3. Anne says:

        Bently has a factory in England. There are partnerships and ownerships and dealers all over the world.
        Besides not all companies are the same. They have diffent policies. And Brands don´t mean the same everywhere.

      4. Sebee says:

        I’ll help you Spyros.

        It’s as bad as American Flags…Made in China.
        :-)

      5. AndyK says:

        @Spyros Haha brilliant!

      6. Sebee says:

        I read somewhere that the national bond rates, which car companies use for their financing arms are making FIAT extremely uncompetitive in the Euro market place. The higher costs of borrowing in Italy vs. Germany mean they are not able to offer the same competitve financing rates as VW. This is causing customers to be pulled by VW brands or other brands that have lower advertisd financing rates on comparable vehicles thanks to lower cost of borrowing. FIAT gives up sales because of it.

        Tax reasons are one reason that they are moving. But there are other issues that will also cause arms of FIAT to move out of Italy. Either financing or actual FIAT as you mention.

        How unpatriotic?! Drivers living in Monaco is nothing compared to such a blow for a country.

      7. Sebee says:

        Speaking of which…a fun read here. Does Kimi live in Monaco too? He woundn’t spin his wheels about wanting to be in a place where ice cream is tax free.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10074267/Monaco-Grand-Prix-2013-Formula-One-stars-love-to-spin-the-truth-on-their-affection-for-millionaires-principality.html

      8. James Allen says:

        No, he lives in Switzerland, along with Vettel and Alonso

      9. Anne says:

        Alonso has been living in Spain for the last 2 years. In fact he is living in his hometown in northern Spain

      10. Sebee says:

        Oh, I think that’s not so hard to manage. Doctors and other pros do it all the time. Goes like this…set up a corporate entity (why not do so in a tax friendly place if you’re mobile), become an employee, pay yourself a reasonable amount you can live from.

        Eventually, one day when you wish to cash out the entity and it’s cash reserves and you’re no longer in the spot light like F1 active drivers are, you do what’s needed to cash in the assets of that entity tax free. Be that move to where the tax free money is or whatever.

        It’s all managable. If Google and Amazon can sell billions in UK and hardly pay any taxes, surely there are legal ways to live in Spain and enjoy a tax free life. What does Alonso have in Spain? A nice flat he enjoys 3 months of the year at most? A free corporate Ferrari with Italian plates?

      11. Anne says:

        Huh? All I meant to do was to give James the correct information about someone´s location. I don´t care about what drivers do with their money. It´s none of my business

      12. Sebee says:

        Indeed.

        My reply was just to outline that surely, there are ways to minimize tax cost, even while spending a bit of time in Spain.

    2. hero_was_senna says:

      Lmao!
      They should become an American company, they don’t pay any tax anywhere.

    3. Doobs says:

      Fiat build quality will take a dive ;(

      1. Sebee says:

        Fix It Again Tony! :-)

  21. Kay says:

    James, “Tyres dominate Formula 1 agenda ahead of Moaco Grand Prix”?

    I thought they’ve always dominated the agenda of every GP since their inception. It’s always manage tyres, manage tyres and manage tyres. Never heard of those in Bridgestone days.

  22. tim says:

    Quite liked Niki Lauda’s observation that racing flat out is relatively new, and that in the past drivers had to nurse their cars. Back then it was the gearbox, brakes and to a lesser extent, engine; today, tires.

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      But they are nursing their 8 engines a year, or saving their gearbox for 5 races. It’s not exactly pedal to the metal anyway

  23. Samaro says:

    You would have thought that after so much talk about them people would have at least learnt to spell tyres correctly

    1. ferggsa says:

      Back in America, tires is the correct spelling

      1. G says:

        It’s our language, you just butchered it ;)

      2. ferggsa says:

        Not me personally, I am from Mexico and speak butchered Spanish, but have studied enough to be able to write in both British English and American (US) English
        Maybe Brits should be a little patient with fans from other English speaking countries as well as Asia and Latinamerica who follow this very International site

  24. Goldeneye76 says:

    James, totally off topic but if you type in James Allen F1 into Google then the profile picture that comes up definitely isn’t you… Unless you’ve undergone a Dr Who style regeneration. Might want to get that looked into…

  25. Wiz says:

    Pirelli has managed to turn F1 into a borefest! Their manifesto was to make F1 more exciting, and they have gone completely the other way.Who really wants to be watching a tyre management course? We should be watching the top drivers racing to the best of their ability, not waving competitors past because they want to save their tyres! I watched the Moto GP on Sunday at Le mans, and that was real excitement and racing – as it should be. F1 should take a lesson from them as this boring tyre saving is turning people away. Barcelona was the most boring race I have ever seen, to the point I fell asleep during the race!

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      If Barcelona was boring, then you must have been too young to see Schumacher, Ferrari and Bridgestone dominate for 5 years.
      Never mind all the Spanish and Monaco GP’s I have watched.
      Doesn’t it say something, that prior to this years race, the lowest starting position on the grid to become a winner was Schumi in 1996 in a wet race from 3rd?

    2. H.Guderian says:

      Yes, you are right.

      Exciting is to see Vettel win race after race from pole. Even Mark was not allowed to race against him.

      That was REALLY exciting.

  26. Thinker says:

    I still think give the teams as many tyres as they want for the race. Any compound they want. Somewhere in there is a speed to lost time for pit stops equation that may let every car work to its best. What do you think?

    1. Kay says:

      Bernie / Pirelli will need a lot lot more jets to fly those tyres to each race…

      Crazy.

  27. Dani says:

    Here we go again, these drivers won’t stop eh?
    i want to comment on each driver and what he said.
    first of all, Alonso: i feel like this is mind games from alonso’s part, trying to upset redbull by criticizing them. BUT, everyone who doesn’t cheer for redbull or mercedes and who doesn’t think pirelli should change the tires dramatically, this is EXACTLY how im feeling. Sorry redbull, you cant extract the speed out of your car, because other cars can. try harder next year…
    Second, Hamilton:
    I feel like hamilton is loosing it, he thought yeah im doing well so far in the beginning of the season and i have a shot at the championship and now hes realizing hell no. How come he doesn’t think that the fact that him and rosberg are locking the front row is not because they are superheroes, its because there is something fundamentally wrong with this mercedes car, overheating the car on one lap, thus allowing them to take the pole. come race day, car is full of fuel, hard on its tires and they just go backwards. just because you are on pole, it doesnt mean its WRONG for you to be lapped end of the race. If your car is slow, your car is slow and You will not win. I’m sorry its embarrassing for you and your team, but that’s how it is at the momment. What hamilton is saying doesnt make sense.
    Third, Webber: I agree with webber about how the cars seem slower this year..BUT, what he fails to realize is that this problem doesnt go away by lobbying pirelli to make the tires suit the ” fast cars” more. this is a trend in F1, look at the different eras of F1 and you realize that the FIA is trying to make the cars slower and slower. Mind you, this year’s cars are not slower than last year by a lot..so webber’s argument doesn’t make sense. this year there is NO exhaust technology, degrading tires and still the cars are not that far off. so im not sure webber is being totally honest here.
    Finally, Vettel: this kid makes me laugh. hes so frustrated hes saying all the teams are complaining. yes, they might be complaining to each other, because all the teams want to go faster but they are not saying f1 is not a sport anymore to the media and criticizing pirelli on tv channels and websites. Come on, what your saying doesnt make any sense. Im glad people are criticizing Redbull, because they should. Don’t act like your team is an angel, people are criticizing because you and your team’s behaviour is ridiculous. Since day 1 of the championship, since you saw you cant get those numbers from the computer on track, you have been criticizing pirelli. and now your saying everyone is complaining? NO.
    my final thought, yes we all want to see fast cars fighting to the maximum, going at the ultimate speed, but maybe we got used to that during the recent era of F1. F1 hasn’t always been this way, we need to think about that. Mechanical failures are rare these days, there is no variable here except aerodynamics which if you ask me, is the real enemy of F1. too much aero make fast cars but boring races. Im glad these pirelli tires are rewarding cars with good mechanical grip, because that brings good racing and allows us to see great battles. Older f1 cars all had less aero than now, but great mechanical grip. if something needs to be changed about f1, THIS should be changed. watch some old races from 2000 and onwards you will realize yes the cars are faster, they even look faster on the track. but, the races were boring…watching a clip from recent years,a race showing some battle between two drivers is different than watching the whole racing where little or no overtaking is happening. in terms of overtaking, those races are boring.
    everything ive said is of my opinion, and my opinion only.
    Dani

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      Your point about mechanical grip, that people forget, applies to wet races too.
      How many times have we heard about how a wet qualifying session or race has enlivened proceedings.
      Bernie in the past has suggested artificially wetting the track as it makes for better racing, whilst I wouldn’t go that far, I do understand the sentiment.
      No doubt, Red Bull would complain about the water being used..

  28. Hehe says:

    Alonso in March 2011:

    “From what we have seen so far, degradation is very significant, which means we will have races with lots of pit-stops,” the Spaniard commented.

    “I’m not keen on that because I think this increased uncertainty does not favour the strongest teams; it’s as if in football it was decided to have a penalty per team each half hour – in which case Barcelona and Real Madrid would not be jumping for joy.”

    So when he wasnt winning he was against soft tyres and many pitstops. Now he is for it. Lol.

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      It was an opinion voiced, but I never remember him or Ferrari lobbying for the softest tyres at every race, they just accepted they had to work harder

  29. Richard says:

    Kimi never complained about the tyres, Kimi even said that the tyres aren’t that much diffrent from last year. Lotus got it right, Red Bull got it wrong, so stop complaining and learn to be a good loser, instead of a bad winner.

  30. AlexD says:

    My opinion is still the same. It IS POSSIBLE to build a car that is able to work with these tyres and it is possible to have racing. I filter this PR from teams and I hope Pirelli will not make significant changes and that the packing order will not change at all. Let teams think harder and get on top of the situation. I have faith that they can do it and that several races from now, they will learn how to manage.

    Mercedes has build a car in a way that is heating tyres super fast for a fast qualifying lap, but is is overheating tyres for the race. It was the same last year – they were good in quick laps and cold conditions but always moved backwards in the race. Lotus is the other way around, they progress during the race. So IT IS POSSIBLE, just requires a different approach and this is what teams should do.

  31. Andre says:

    Those of you so strongly judging RBR just make me laugh. Just shows how easy it is in these days of internet forums and blogs to vent your disrespectful opinion.

    When you win you get more friends, but you also get more enemies. And to hate something and being negative is so much more popular these times.

    For those unwilling to see, they already complained about the tires at the first testdays. So long before any race was driven and any points were given. Even after Bahrain.

    And Ferrari and Lotus having built a car to suit these tires is just BS. Pirelli designed these tires so that cars with lots of downforce would have a disadvantage. To level the competion. Because by the end of last year most teams already adapted to the tires they went even more extreme with this years tires.

    RBR just complains because they genuinely feel that F1 should not run on these tires.
    Is that not allowed????? But no, this is all because they are not winning. Do people really think that RBR with Newey can not adept to these tires so they try to get the rules changed already before the season? So short sighted.

    Vettel already said many times that they just need to make their car easier on the tires. So they don’t complain about it being about other teams being better then them but solely the fact that F1 should not drive on these kind of tires.

    Alonso’s comments I don’t take very serious either. He is smart enough to know that these tires will give him a much greater change to become WDC so he has no reason to complain.
    As also Raikkonen knows.

    And so you know, I am not a RBR/Vettel fan and not a hater either. For me Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton are the best drivers on the grid and differences between them are minimal. With some other drivers following close.

    1. luqa says:

      Good comment Andre!

    2. Spyros says:

      So in short, you’re saying that there is an F1-wide conspiracy against RBR, spearheaded by Pirelli?

      I see what you mean, what you say is not an example of “venting a disrespectful opinion” at all!

      1. Andre says:

        Well I don’t see how my comment is disrespectful at all.
        Hembery said ““Unless you all want us to give Red Bull the tyres to win the championship. It’s pretty clear. If we did that, there would be one team that would benefit and it would be them.”

        http://www.formula1blog.com/2013/05/13/pirelli-want-us-to-give-red-bull-the-tires-to-win-the-title/

        So they know exactly how cars will react to their tires. No conspiracy but they know exactly to make things more equal.

        But my post is mostly to point out that Red Bull is more complaining about the tires not being good for F1 then not being good for RBR.
        And people just talking bad about RB because they say it’s only because they are not winning.

        When you complain before the start of the new season (already before testing) and still after the 1-2 finish in Bahrain and leading the WDC and WCC then they are not complaining because they are not winning but because they genuinely feel that F1 should not drive on tires, where drivers can’t fight for position, just to preserve tires.

        Pirelli admitted after Spain that they had gone to far. So to some extend justifying Red Bulls complaints about these tires and F1 racing.

        I don’t think its Pirelli’s fault, they just did what they were asked to do when they entered F1.

        PS. How long before we get F1 hooligans??…

      2. Spyros says:

        You wrote: “Pirelli designed these tires so that cars with lots of downforce would have a disadvantage.” At best, this implies that Pirelli targeted RBR, hence why I used the word ‘conspiracy’.

        As for F1 hooligans… I almost wish this was possible, but the sport is way too ‘middle-class’ (in the British sense of the term) for that..! Maybe when we see vuvuzelas in Wimbledon?

  32. Grant says:

    F1′s face is ‘disfigured’at the moment.
    Qualy bares no resemblance to race.
    Half of the face is Mona Lisa, the other the Stig.
    Soon we’ll really have no reason to watch or even worry about qualifying.

    1. Spyros says:

      Remember when people suggested reverse grids, to spice up racing? We’re nearly there, aren’t we..?

  33. Ben G says:

    Just noticed that the Monaco GP isn’t going to be live on BBC. What happened?

    1. James Allen says:

      THey had a choice between Monaco and Canada and the latter is in a prime time evening slot UK time so bigger audience etc

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        Kind of messes with Bernie’s manipulation of time zones around the world to always have F1 events in the afternoon in Europe.

      2. Ben G says:

        Gotcha – thanks!

      3. Tornillo Amarillo says:

        In Canada always something entertaining happens!

    2. brendan says:

      i know its my favourite gp,never missed one yet.bbc want shooting,there is no race like Monaco its the jewel in the crown. highlites are not the same.
      so i guess its radio 5 live for another race. the commentator is quite good.
      am coming round to suzi perry but i do miss jake and eddys double act.

  34. Guy Williams says:

    Did no-one else see this article on the bbc? It says that the FIA stepped in and have stopped Pirelli changing the degradation of the tyres.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22593977

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      Yep, posted a few days ago

  35. Sikhumbuzo says:

    Guys

    Lotus has the knowledge of the tyre, I mean Pirelli use their car for tests. Four year old or not they know the features of those Tyres.

    ST

    1. Grant says:

      That should definitely give them a bit of an advantage.

  36. Matt W says:

    Has Alonso forgotten he was also one of the ones criticising the tyres after his Spanish win? Surely Ferrari don’t suffer from short memories too?

  37. Elie says:

    It’s rather stupid that people say this driver won or that driver lost this year or 3 years ago.. It’s a non argument because the tyres are the same for everyone 1st place 12th or 22nd. The only thing us fans have to ask is .. “Do we want to see this type of racing ” -where you can only fight wheel to wheel for a few corners or not at all if your strategy does not permit it. I didn’t even want it last year, that said its not sporting or right to change rules mid year and I don’t care what rule it is.. If a team sets its car up a way that beats others good luck to them – the rules can change in the off season where all the teams have time to apply whatever limited resources they have to the challenge.

    You hear the trumped up card of tyre delaminations at the last few races but “blind Freddy” could have told you that it would happen at Bahrain when that front wing broke off a Sauber and the stewards did not call a safety car. If the same cars keep shredding tyres well its a safe bet they did something wrong when nobody else does it. That said.. If their is any safety concern whatsoever – I believe Pirelli are addressing it correctly by improving the structure – if indeed that’s all that happens – now there will be conspiracy theories if teams say “.. Oh the tyres are totally different”

    What’s really interesting is that Raikkonen mentioned “.. If they make stronger rear tyres ” – Is that the case James ?
    I don’t see why you would have 2 structurally different tyres on the same car and suggests its only a quick fix for 2 certain teams that can’t manage the rears… Completely unsporting !

  38. BoogWar says:

    Can someone correct an assumption of mine…I thought the tyres were the same front to rear. In the past I knew the rear tyres were larger but in modern times they look to be equal to me. So I just assumed they were…which was stupid of me. I would also like to know if the compounds are different. If I understand RAI correctly, then the construction is different as well. It seems I have to read the regs more closely, but I would like to ask a final question. is it against the rules to mix the tyre types front to rear? Supersofts on front, softs at rear, for example?

  39. AnthonyD says:

    The 2013 spec tyres are an integral component of the ‘Formula’ in Formula 1 this season. For better or for worse, it should be accepted that this is indeed the case and that no major changes are made. 2014 is a clean slate where they can make the desired changes, but not a quarter of the way through 2013 when every team knew what to expect and had to design their cars accordingly. Period.

    1. Spyros says:

      Yup, but the teams have to tell Pirelli what they want the 2014 tyres to be like. And they need to do so NOW, so that on September 1st Pirelli will announce what it will do…

      …except Pirelli won’t have a car to test these tyres with, so really, they will have even less to go on than they did at the end of last year.

      In other words, that clean slate might not be all that great… and it won’t be Pirelli’s fault, either. But that’s assuming they actually stay on for 2014.

  40. SenPro says:

    Think now that it is clear Pirelli are changing only the rear and changing the steel belt for a kevlar one which reduces temp by 10 degrees so its good news for Merc and not for RedBull who have issues with Front tyre.

    I doubt this change will affect too much the racing we have seen this year and I’ll say it now, it won’t change the order at the front

  41. Dren says:

    Some engineers got it right, some got it wrong. Such is F1. It has always been an engineering sport first, and a driver sport second. That is why I became a fan in the first place. The team that is now Mercedes have had tire issues for as long as I can remember. Perhaps it stems from some of Button’s input as he always had issues getting heat into the tires.

  42. H.Guderian says:

    I thought the “Italian tyre manufacturer” were supplying tyres (the SAME tyres) to all teams. Are you saying that Ferrari (and Lotus) have different tyres???

    Fact (like it or not): Alonso with a REALLY bad car can fight for victories. Vettel on a very good car (not the perfect car he had) cannot. I’m an Alonso fan, but I wouldn’t like to see Ferrari with a perfect car. Would be BORING!!!

    1. Rockie says:

      Well even with the tyre woes hes beating Alonso who has a good car so whats your point?
      Too much is being made of 2012 forgetting Alonso had a 44pt lead over Vettel mid way through the season.

      1. Doobs says:

        Think back to the 2012 situation and you’ve answered your own question mate.

      2. H.Guderian says:

        Just in case you didn’t notice, Alonso had problems in two races, one crash (his fault) and a DRS problem. And by the way…. If he (VET) is leading the season, why he is moaning that much???

  43. Doug says:

    Okay, here we go. New rules for 2016. Car must fit inside this box. Four tire types available anytime and in unlimited quantity. Full ERS, DRS anytime anywhere and refueling allowed. No restrictions on power units or driver aids.

    New problem – One (1) driver killed at least twice a year. There is a fine balance between racing and reason.

    1. PeterB says:

      @Doug
      +1000

      I have advocated this for years.

      As to driver injuries, a sad factor, but for me motor racing has always been a gladitatorial sport, rewardinging those willing (or stupid) enough to go closer to the edge. The deaths do not automatically follow if the same safty cell and crash tesyt rules apply

  44. Yak says:

    What I’d like to know is, the rule says the FIA provides the spec by whatever month the year before, and that from there it can’t change unless all the teams agree to it.

    So what spec are the FIA providing? Coz I don’t imagine they’re actually designing the tyres and just getting Pirelli to manufacture them to that spec.

    I would have thought they’d provide a spec in terms of what they want Pirelli to achieve with the tyres. In which case Pirelli changing the construction and compounds now wouldn’t necessarily be changing the spec, because they hadn’t necessarily met the spec in the first place. They’d be changing the tyres so that they DID meet the spec provided by the FIA.

    Otherwise… I’d have to wonder why everyone’s having a go at Pirelli about the tyres, when it would seem it’s all the doing of the FIA, and Pirelli are just the puppets who make them (and then cop all the heat for it).

    1. Yak says:

      Or alternatively, the FIA provided a set of specifications for Pirelli to meet, Pirelli actually achieved what was asked of them, but the results are rubbish. In which case changing the tyres would be changing the spec. But if that’s the case… again, you can’t really have a go at Pirelli then. They achieved what they were told to do, and it’s the FIAs fault for giving them rubbish specifications.

  45. Spyros says:

    Really? So you’re saying that instead of getting in F1 to promote its own brand, as a maker of high-performance tyres, Pirelli instead decided to become the laughing stock of the tyre industry, by conspiring to help a compatriot team?

    (p.s.: the alterators that failed in the Renault engines last year, in the backs of RBR and Lotus, were also made by an Italian company… J’ACCUSE!)

  46. Dmitry says:

    Please, oh, please, FIA, teams – drop Pirelli for next season.
    Please choose some proven manufacturer… Bridgestone… Michelin… Goodyear…

    I really do hope this happens. I just can’t stand Hembry’s moaning and actually awful tyres anymore. If someone finds them “great for racing”, I don’t. I’ve been watching F1 for quite a long time and in my mind such “spectacle” is the worst that could have happened to F1. What irritates me the most that Pirelli promised “not to change tyres much” for 2013… but it turns out they lied.

    1. Kay says:

      They do have a tendency on reversing what they said in the past.

      i.e. when Pirelli first joined, they said 18″ rims must be on the agenda for 2012 or 13. Not long ago, Pirelli said F1 has to ask for them.

      ?!??!?!?!

  47. Gavin Pendergrast says:

    The tyre situation has been created out of F1′s desire to get people watching on TV. I haven’t heard any of the teams comment on the fact that they get a big chunk of money from F1′s profits which is directly connected to TV viewers.

    What F1 needs is the equivalent to the short skirt in tennis. Makes the viewing more pleasurable but not at the cost of competition.

    That said, I believe that with the current crop of drivers you do not need to create artificial racing. If tyres were more durable and consistent it would make for closer racing but maybe not quite as crazy.

    Yes the cream rises to the top and it always will but it would be better if the cream was racing wheel to wheel rather than racing their delta time & ending up wherever the simulation puts them.

    I would like to see the driver having more control over his or her destiny on the race track. Give them tyres that are durable and have a rule that states no team radio after the lights go out. That would make for great racing. Maybe create pit windows but the pitting decision is made by the driver. This would keep drivers in close proximity and give them the tools to go full bore for the whole race with only themselves to control.

    This wouldn’t dilute the engineering aspect as the team still needs to provide the driver with a good car but it will reduce the effect the teams have on strategy.

  48. Biggus says:

    I don’t know what the fuss is about. In earlier times winning was about managing the brakes and the gearbox to last the distance, now it’s about managing the tires. All the teams have the same rule book. Some designed better cars than others. They will win. Same as it has always been.

  49. Paul Mc says:

    It amazes me how Pirelli wish to remain in the sport considering the potential damage this could do to their brand. They are simply following orders to make tyres wear faster yet this seems at odds to a tyre manufacturers sole purpose. Bridgestone and Michelin to an extent, before the US GP debacle, enjoyed success in its F1 association with no real limitations on tyre wear..the longer lasting the better. Pirelli on the other hand will go down in history during this period as making tyres that last only a few laps in some cases. F1 headlines are now about tyres rather than drivers and teams and so the negativity in the sport is firmly pointed at Pirelli.

    How long will they put up with F1′s ongoing experiment into TV Entertainment as a sole focus rather than driver or team achievement?

    Regarding Pirellim, their recent financial results from 2012 show positive growth in sales and it appears F1 is not hurting them yet but it will be interesting to see how this situation develops.

    1. ronmon says:

      I think that is the point that everyone is missing here. The tire drama this season is a product of Pirelli doing what FIA/FOM have asked them to do. All the teams are using the same rubber and some have figured it out while others have not.

      I wouldn’t blame Pirelli if they simply dropped out of F1. They make superb road tires and could produce F1 tires with any characteristics that the series asked for. They have done just that and gotten nothing but grief in return, which has probably hurt their reputation in the long run. It would be in their best interest to walk away and never look back on the sport which has treated them so badly.

  50. Adrian says:

    Pirelli are doing a fantastic job, dont change a thing, let the engineers do what there paid to do, find a solution!

    Monaco is the ultimate one lap track, the real race is Saturday, let the top ten battle begin.

    Redbull and Seb might have except the reality that the other teams have caught and bettered thier car this year.
    The Mercs are choosing a pr setup! Its working, were all buying it.

  51. colin grayson says:

    keep hearing about a new tyre contract for next year , but who has to approve the contract and who actually places the contract ?

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