F1 World Champion 2014
Lewis Hamilton
Marussia likely to use Ferrari turbo engines in 2014
News
XPB_575419_1200px
Posted By: James Allen  |  02 May 2013   |  10:10 am GMT  |  50 comments

Marussia is likely to use Ferrari turbo engines next season when the new regulations come in, according to the team’s technical director Pat Symonds.

From 2014, the current 2.4 litre V8s will be dropped in favour of 1.6 litre V6s. Marussia’s current engine supplier Cosworth is pulling out of the sport at the end of the season, which will leave just Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes.

“Cosworth has decided it can’t find any commercial justification for building an engine [for 2014] so we have to look elsewhere,” said Symonds in the latest edition of the JA on F1 podcast.

“There will be only three suppliers next year – Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari – and while we have spoken to all of them, I think we are rapidly heading in the direction of Ferrari. We need to head in a direction rapidly because we really need to sign a supply agreement with someone quite soon – and Ferrari, at the moment, are top of that list.”

The team already have a relationship with Ferrari as they run one of their academy drivers – F1 rookie Jules Bianchi – alongside Max Chilton.

“I think Jules is a quality driver,” added Symonds. “It’s not a coincidence he is a Ferrari Academy driver. It’s very good to be working with Ferrari and helping develop one of their drivers. That said, I don’t want to give him up to Ferrari. I hope he stays with us for a while.”

Symonds, who played a key role in Benetton and Renault’s world championships with Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso respectively, joined Marussia as a consultant in 2011 before moving into the role of technical director.

The team are in their fourth season in Formula 1, having finished 12th, 12th and 11th overall in the championship standings, and have yet to score a point.

However, they have made a step forward this season, including adding Kers to the car which is worth around 0.3 seconds a lap, and are currently 10th in the constructors’ ahead of rivals Caterham.

“I came in as a consultant to look at the way Marussia could progress, so I would like to take a long term view,” added Symonds. “As we’re so small it’s quite difficult but I’m pleased with where we have got to this year.

“We are by far and away the most improved team on the grid. If you look at lap times between this year and last year, we are just way ahead of everyone else in terms of improvement. That is gratifying because it is still early days.”

To listen to the full interview with Pat Symonds, including his thoughts on the team’s drivers Max Chilton and Jules Bianchi, make sure you listen to the May edition of the JA on F1 podcast available to download via the iTunes store or directly here.

Featured News
MORE FROM JA ON F1...
Share This:
Posted by:
Category:
50 Comments
  1. F*ckYeah says:

    James, has there been any word on these engines being matched, as they currently are, or will we see a free for all and F1 cars with significantly different BHP and driveability ?

    If so, you surely would not put your money on Fiat/Ferrari having the best, given their relative lack of experience and the current financial climate.

    This may not really matter so much to Mairussia, but could mean certain Ferrari drivers end their careers mired in the midfield.

    1. James Allen says:

      To start with yes. Gaps of 4-5secs front to back if grid us our estimate

      But if one engine us significantly up it down there will be TWG opportunity to tweak things a but as with introduction of V8s

      1. I would be more worried about reliability than parity!

    2. hero_was_senna says:

      Strange comment really.

      1981 to 1988, Ferrari ran V6 turbo engines.
      1977 to 1986, Renault ran V6 turbo engines.
      Both teams won races, and Ferrari won 2 WCC with turbos.

      The only other existing engine manufacturer in F1 wasn’t even in F1 at the time.

  2. Elie says:

    Well that’s good news to have a little more balance in the field in terms of engines. With Torro Rosso heading to Renault it only left Sauber as the only Ferrari powered car in 2014. Pats a clever old fox and I hope he can manage to keep Jules one more year because I think the team will continue to make good strides with a Ferrari power train. It’s also gives Ferrari to do 2 things :-
    1. Benchmark their car against a new team and chasis
    2. Benchmark Jules Bianci on his performance with a Ferrari engine and prepare him for the transition.

  3. Sebee says:

    I must say, there are some strange word combinations recently.

    Ferrari Turbo?

    Ferrari Hybrid?

    These things sound wrong. Even to someone who may not be a Ferrari product or team fan.

    1. Random 79 says:

      Don’t worry just yet Seebee.

      However, if you start hearing Ferrari Prius, then it’s time to worry… :)

      1. Sebee says:

        Well, their Hybrid does pack 949HP, so it’s just a touch different. Still, sounds weird.

      2. Sebee says:

        Oh yeah, and it’s called a LaFerrari? What just happened here?

        LaFerrari Hybrid? Ferrari Turbo? My head is spinning!

    2. Robert says:

      Ferrari are already supplying Maserati powerful turbo engines for the Quattroporte. http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/01/2014-maserati-quattroporte-gets-twin-turbo-ferrari-engines-2013-detroit-auto-show.html

      So don’t discount Ferrari’s experience with turbos…

      1. Sebee says:

        No doubt. But Ferrari Turbo…just doesn’t have the same ring to it as Ferrari V12.

        To me, there are two things a Ferarri should be.
        1. Red.
        2. V12 – naturaly asiprated

        Even those V8 Ferrari seemed a bit “econo-box” I see a 360/430/458, even if it is red I say to myself, can’t that guy afford a real Ferrari? Like an F12? :-)

      2. Elie says:

        I know exactly what you mean Sebee. Its not quite the same is it.- Ferraris dominance was always the V12 and its no coincidence it lost it as soon as the V12 lost place in F1.
        Im really disappointed that Porsche didn’t join the party – because that would certainly have ” thrown the cat amongst the pidgeons ” . They patented Variable Turbine Geometrry and have been delivering Hybrid technologies to the V6 panamera and the soon to be released 918.
        I understand why they stuck with LeMan and Sportscar program’s though because of their “relevance” to the road car and image. There is that word again.!

      3. Sebee says:

        Elie,

        I just remember the F40 is a both V8 and Turbocharged. So to any of you Ferrari F40 owners, you’re exempt. That’s a real Ferrari.

        Everyone else V12 or nothing!

        For crying out loud, even Ferris Bueller’s borrowed Ferrari had a V12! :-)

      4. hero_was_senna says:

        Elie,
        Ferrari ran a flat 12 from 1970 until 1980. This was replaced by a V6 turbo engine until 1989, when they used a V12 once more, until Schumacher joined the team for 1996 and they changed to a V10.
        In road cars, the 365/512BB which replaced the V12 Daytona, and the 80′s Testarossa were both flat 12 configurations.
        The first new era V12 was in the 456 of 1992, before the V12 returned with the F50, 550 and 575 models.

    3. Zombie says:

      Duh ! 2 of the greatest Ferraris were turbo-charged : The 288 GTO and the F40.

      1. Poyta says:

        +1!

      2. Sebee says:

        How does the saying go?

        No replacement for displacement!

      3. Sebee says:

        Money talks and you know what walks.

        Look at most valuable Ferrari lists, all most sought after models…V12.

    4. hero_was_senna says:

      Just to put your mind at ease Sebee,
      Ferrari have used turbos in F1 before, from 1981 to 1988.
      They have used turbo charging in road cars before the legendary F40 also.

      The humble 208GTB was an Italian edition of the 308GTB which Villeneuve hated. It was made for tax reason in Italy but had the same power as the 3 litre car.
      They also built the 288GTO in 1984, the fore runner to the F40.

      1. Sebee says:

        So what you’re saying hero is…80s are back! And Turbos are back in style?

      2. hero_was_senna says:

        Well we have Dallas back on the TV…

      3. Sebee says:

        Time to bring Miami Vice back too.

        Wonder which Ferrari he would drive.

      4. Sebee says:

        You see what I did there with the Miami Vice comment?
        Full circle! :-)

      5. hero_was_senna says:

        Miami Vice? Didn’t Ferrari sue them because the black Daytona was actually a kit car?
        Then the white Testarossa, the silver F430 in the recent film… I reckon the F12

      6. Sebee says:

        hero,

        You ever see No Man’s Land with Charlie Sheen? The one where they jack Porsches for chopin’? Charilie has an interesting line in that movie about Ferraris.

        When you look at some of the classic Ferraris like Daytona or the 250GT, or many others, they really are timeless.

        When you look at the modern lineup from 1990 on, it really doesn’t age well. I don’t think you will look at any of them and see them stand up to the test of time. My reaction to a 430, 550 or even the Enzo now is quite vulgar. A lot like when I see a Countach. To own one today is just funny.

        A 550 with low milage could be had for $50-60K, but it just looks so darn antiquated already. I think only the British brands (not so British anymore in ownership) tend to put out some designs that are more classy and have longer shelf life. You know…something that stands up to the test of time. I think you’re right about F12. 430 was never a Vice car – they took out out of necessity at the time. F12 is the first Ferrari in a while to look like it may stand up to the test of time.

        Ferrari FF – someone has been stealing and rehashing the old BMW M Coupe design. :-)

        This concludes my Ferrari review. …and seriously, Dallas is back, Hawaii Five-0 is back. It’s time to bring back Miami Vice on TV. Real Crockett would never drive anything but V12.

      7. hero_was_senna says:

        Never seen the film but will look out for it.
        It’s difficult looking back at an era of design and not taking into account it’s contemporaries.
        I grew up in the 80′s and am horrified by what was considered fashion. The only stunning car which Ferrari produced was based on a 308, the 288GTO
        The 355 was prettier than the 348, but as you say, the 456, 550 and 599 designs were ultimately forgettable.
        I’ve ridden in a 458 recently, and I consider that truly beautiful but I suppose what overrides everything is the engine.
        Enzo Ferraris first love was the engine, aero and chassis were always an afterthought, so I suppose that holds true now.
        In a lot of ways that’s what’s disappointing about the Mclaren P1, it’s engine isn’t epic, it’s just a rehashed version of the standard one in the 12c. When you consider the F1 had an exquisite V12, it’s. disappointing.

        Looks matter, although these can be subjective, but the engine is the one thing all petrol heads love. The ultimate ability of these cars isn’t achievable on the road, so the noise, the experience counts.

        If I’m ever in a position to own a collection of Ferrari’s, the stable would include several from the 60′s, a 512BB, a 288GTO and a 458, oh yes and a 312B and a 312PB for track days :)

      8. Sebee says:

        That’s a decent set of horses hero.

        I have a retro automotive wish list myself, but it is honestly just a little wish list. Quite reasonable and meant to stay a wish list and nothing more. I could realize it, but it is just such an impractical thing to have old cars for a number of reasons. Automotive technology has progressed. Modern cars are simply better, safer, more comfortable. I find lack of connection to Ferrari road cars as a useful tool. When I got to enjoy one for few days I was constantly concerned that someone will ding the door, or pay attention to the car and cause an accident so I had to drive with extra caution. And that was a V8 common 360 – yellow, YUCK! Plus, you can’t enjoy its capabilities on public roads. I enjoyed my motorcycles much more as a motoring and mechanical “suit” that connects you to the road, vs. a sports car of any sort that I have driven in my life.

        That wish list I mention:
        Porsche 928 GTS (Black)
        BMW 850 CSi – V12!!! (Silver)
        Mercedes 200, early 70s model. (Dark Green)
        …honestly, that’s about it. How sad? So budget!

  4. Fellowes says:

    Personally I would like to see more engine manufacturers in the mix. More car/engine combinations means variable results, unpredictable racing, and opportunity for a few surprises. It is a shame that Cosworth will not continue, and that other indepent engine manufacturers/tuners are no longer involved (Mugen, Hart, Supertech, etc). I hope we will see some new blood after 2014.

    James, there is rumour of Honda’s return, and perhaps Toyota. Anyone else on the horizon?

  5. Jason Mawer says:

    where does this leave their technical co-operation with McLaren?

    1. Jon Wilde says:

      I was wondering the same thing

    2. Random 79 says:

      If this deal goes through, my impression – and I may be way, way wide of the mark here – is that McLaren will continue to supply technical support for the chassis and aero side, while Ferrari will just provide the power train.

      Two different areas.

      In any case, McLaren already supply the ECUs for all the teams, so it’s already a touch murky anyway :)

  6. Equin0x says:

    To me the power outputs of these engines are too weak for this day and age, F1 is all about being the fastest but with engines producing just over 500hp is ridiculous, I know they got ERS but its only temporary, what we will get is teams with ever shorter gear ratios and maxing out at about 185mph at Monza will not appeal to me, I suspect the Le Mans and Moto GP bandwagon will be laughing at these engines, this will be 2014 but the cars will be slower than 1992, we’re at a time where road cars are pushing for close to 300mph its a farce the pinnacle of racing cars won’t even reach 200mph in races anymore. I know there’s the arguments about lap times still being the fastest but even then the advantage over ALMS cars right now are minimal and cars like the Marussia and Caterham might even be slower than those heavy Audis next year.

    1. Quade says:

      Its the brand new green vision for F1.

      They even tried to get the cars to run on only electrics in the pits. An F1 car running on only electrics?! Unreal!:-|| :@

    2. Elie says:

      I think their talking about 600bhp form the V6 Turbos and about 160bhp from the ERS for about 30 sec ( instead of 80 Bhp & about 10sec for KERS ). Also an increase in torque. This was mentioned on a few sites( here too )

      It was mentioned previously that they will still produce similar speed / top end 210-220mph) so I don’t know where your get 185mph. The good thing with these new power trains is that there is scope for considerably more performance in the them.

      I just hope the FIA really allow scope in the regulations for these power trains to develop over time so that the technology is accelerated at a rapid rate and we can see benefits carry down to the Automotive sector.

    3. Robert says:

      It isn’t that they can’t get more power from them – it is a problem with engine lifespan (and thus team costs!), and track safety. The revs are electronically limited to (I think) 15k. However, the engines are probably good for 18-20k revs, and the turbo boost is running well less than it’s maximum. So – it is not an ENGINE problem, it is, as said, a cost issue (hence the low revs to preserve the engine supply) and a safety issue (a deliberate cap on top speeds, due to many tracks simply not being “safe” at higher speeds).

      The important thing to note – it is NOT about being politically correct, except maybe killing fewer drivers by restricting speed.

    4. Poyta says:

      Why the fascination with Power? They have trouble with traction already so why put even more power in them. Its a matter of finding the right balance. Pretty sure a top fuel dragster has even more power but put that on a F1 track and see what laptimes it does.

      1. mhilgtx says:

        Very valid points. I just watched an NHRA race and TF/FC and TF/Dragsters are up to almost 10,000 BHP now. If they took as much as 10 minutes to get around an Monza wouldn’t surprise me. Even if you made the chicanes smooth turns they still couldn’t make them going much more than 20 mph.

    5. Jonathan says:

      I feel you need to do a bit more research. The limiting factor is not the power of the engines but the ability of the driver and the car to get around existing tracks whilst coping with everything else.

      Red Bull are often not the fastest car through a speed trap because that is not always the quickest way around a track. It is often the bottom teams which are quickest because they have less down force.

      The cars could be much, much faster if the teams wanted that. There is no point in pushing for more powerful engines. Power is not the limiting factor. Lap times are limited by cornering speeds and the only way to really make them faster is to go back to the ground effect cars. They were stopped because if something went wrong they became uncontrolled missiles – so they won’t be coming back anytime soon.

      It sounds like you should be watching drag cars… which have no need to go around a bend.

  7. Trespasser says:

    I wonder how the Ferrari deal will affect their technical co-operation with McLaren.

  8. JC says:

    Just noticed from that picture James, why aren’t teams running the red t-cams on top of their lead drivers cars this year? It made each driver much easier to identify before.

  9. Dave says:

    Whatever happened to Craig Pollock’s PURE engine operation ? Died a death ?

    1. Mon Pen says:

      There is this really clever thing called Google, perhaps you haven’t heard of it. They are quite publicity shy after all.

      1. Joel says:

        Dave is trying to make a conversation. Of course everyone can Google, but that’s not the point here – image this as a virtual pub where you can come and have a virtual talk, heck, even while in office.

      2. Nesto says:

        Exactly, if every time someone asked a question here and the answer was ‘google it’, there would be no discussion.

  10. Oz Geezza says:

    To many experts,to many know all on JA site
    but I do know one thing, when it come to the
    pure engine power Ferrari is by far ahead of
    anything awalable, the proof will be in the pudding come 2014.
    As for Bernie law that only 1st ten gets a
    price on the end of year is truly a low ball
    in any language,is like circus the Elephants
    do their bit only ten gets a feed the rest
    starve,a fair crack of the whip Bernie you
    may live longer.
    Pat Symonds is a crack a jack of engineer
    and a very smart man,he would not have taken
    possition as a top man with Marussia unless
    there is a future with the team, there is a
    lot of money in Russia, you bet.

  11. Adrian Newey Jnr says:

    Great to see Pat get some credit for the work he and the rest of the team have done. After all, it wasn’t that long ago that the team abandoned CFD and dumped Nick Wirth. Caterham have been a lot more stable and are quite a bit off Marussia’s pace.

  12. mhilgtx says:

    I am glad Marrussia are getting more power (hopefully) next year.

    I am concerned about these new engines. I know we think Honda is a done deal, although James is the only one that seems to think that. James is also the most plugged in that I read, it seems. So I trust him James.

    However I thought they were supposed to bring in more manufactures as this would have more real world application. Yet Porsche says they decided there was not a match with their street cars. They are a turbo charged 6 cylinder company, that shocks me. Cosworth (Ford) is bowing out. Even though there are some similarities with the Indycar engine Chevrolet hasn’t spoken up. Not sure if this is due to the different valve springs (helical vs nitrogen pneumatic).

    I remember back in the day when some F1 teams ran a I4 that could produce around 900 BHP. Around the same time there were several V6′s as well. So I am sure they will get this right, but I do worry about the similarities F1 has with IndyCar. I guess I would like the Pinnical of motor sport to actually be the pinnacle of motor sport. Not to have some extremely ugly Dallara concept car be able to keep up or even out perform.

    1. James Allen says:

      I only reported that Japan’s Asahi Shinbun newspaper said it was a done deal. They have always been the leaking channel of choice for Honda.

      Time will tell

  13. Junior says:

    Hi James I know this is an old topic now but i was wondering if there has been any news on when Ferrari will release images/details of their engine?

LEAVE A COMMENT

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Top Tags
SEARCH News
JA ON F1 In association with...
Download the chequered flag podcast today
Download the chequered flag podcast today
Multi award winning Formula One photographer
Multi award winning Formula One photographer