Home boost for Ferrari?
Monza 2015
Italian Grand Prix
Vettel says ignoring team orders was “indirectly” paying Webber back
Scuderia Ferrari
Vettel China
Posted By: James Allen  |  11 Apr 2013   |  12:09 pm GMT  |  427 comments

Reigning world champion Sebastian Vettel says Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber did not “deserve” to win the Malaysian Grand Prix and that his decision to ignore team orders was “indirectly” paying Webber back for a lack of support in the past.

Webber, 36, was leading Vettel, 25, last time out in Sepang when the team ordered both drivers to hold position after the final pit stops. However, Vettel chose to ignore the order and past his team-mate with 13 laps to go to take victory.

Vettel was quoted on Wednesday as saying he will never apologise for winning but it’s important to remember that the German did apologise to Webber several times in the post-race conferences in Sepang.

However, the German did suggest that he was motivated by a lack of support from his Australian team-mate in the past. He said: “I never had support from his side. I have a lot of support from the team and think they are supporting both of us the same way.

“I respect Mark as a racing driver but there was more than one occasion in the past when he could have helped the team and he didn’t.”

The German spent 20 minutes answering questions from the media and when asked if he was paying Webber back for not supporting him in the title-deciding race in Brazil last year: “Probably you could say indirectly so.”

When asked whether he would ignore team orders again, Vettel replied: “I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same.

“Had I understood [the coded Multi 21 message] and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second. I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing. He didn’t deserve it.

“There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

The Sepang incident has been dealt with internally with Vettel saying that he had not been punished.

He said: “I did speak up and apologise. Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen? We dealt with it internally. I did apologise to the team as soon as I could, the whole team, not just the people working here.”

There was speculation about Webber’s future in the sport after the incident in Malaysia, but the Australian, who is on a one-year rolling deal, said he will see out the season and even hinted at continuing on in 2014.

Webber said: “I am definitely keen to finish the season. Obviously a lot of people were questioning that, but that wasn’t something that was in my mind. I am keen to race this year and put forward a very strong campaign and challenge for more race wins.

“Come the summer, I will talk to [Red Bull team owner] Dietrich [Mateschitz] and go from there. If I am driving well and performances are good then we will make some decisions for the future.”

And on the situation in the team, Webber, who is sporting a new-look short haircut in China, said: “Procedularly within the team everything is fine.

“For me it’s not an unusual situation and I’m looking forward to racing here this weekend and getting on with it. When you’re at the front in Formula 1 there’s always stuff going down, so it just depends on how much is going down that you’ve got to manage.”

Featured Video
Behind the Scenes at the track
Behind the Scenes at the track
Featured News in ferrari
Share This:
Posted by:
  1. AlexD says:


    Asked if he would do the same again, Vettel replied: “I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same.

    “Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second… I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing.

    “He didn’t deserve it.

    “There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

    1. Mike J says:

      ….so why did he apologise to Webber after the race?

      1. Pete_from_Nepal says:

        Fair enough. Although we can ask which is worse: To do something like that and apologize (like Vettel did), or do something like that and not apologize (like Webber)?

        Not taking sides. Just asking.

      2. AlexD says:

        There was no agreement before the race. Do you see the difference or not? Would do the same, as Vettel did?

      3. Bring Back Murray says:

        That’s one almighty U-turn from 3 weeks ago!

      4. AlexD says:


      5. Christopher Cave says:

        Absolutely, the first reaction is generally the most accurate and what we saw was somebody who Ibelieve was genuinely ashamed of their actions.

        What we are hearing now is what his public relations team have decided is the best course of action to repair his image after having been perceived as weak following his apologies to Webber and the Red Bull Racing team.

      6. Quade says:

        It seems like he is a guy who can mold several diffent positions into a single sentence.
        Many would call such, dishonesty, or disloyalty, or backstabbing.

      7. Luke Clements says:

        Maybe a career in politics for him post f1!

      8. Wayne says:

        And why did he apologise to the whole team and then say he’d do it again at the earliest opportunity?

        The team have totally lost control of this ego. Horner said it was wrong – VET says he’ll do it again?

      9. Bring Back Murray says:

        Horner firstly said Seb was wrong and has now has said that team orders no-longer exist. It seems like the team have lost control of their team manager!

      10. Christopher Cave says:

        At the end of the day Vettel will do what is in his best long term career interests and his Public Relations team have clearly decided showing weakness ie. apologising is not the course they want him to take so now we see Vettel on the offensive to repair his image.

      11. Sebee says:

        Media pressure. It’s different in this day and age.

        But in my view, it was showing weakness. He shouldn’t have done it.

      12. David says:

        for pr purposes.

      13. Flying Scotsman says:

        Was it because Newey told him he was currently the most hated man in the world and he should apologise?

      14. James Allen says:

        I think there’s a fella in North Korea who is higher up the list of global bad boys than a racing driver..

      15. marcusv says:

        How about top ten?

      16. His immaturity showed in the hours after the Malaysian Grand Prix. If he had stood up for himself and said, “Im here to race” at that moment, he would have seemed more legend like.

        But he went ahead and apologised to Webber and told everyone that he though it was Webber’s win and he misunderstood the instruction.

        Now he has had some time to get instructions about how he should have reacted and he is now changing tack.

        Id love to see Webber stick it to him this year though.

      17. Christopher Cave says:

        I believe Vettel is genuinely a decent person who took no joy from upsetting Webber and the remorse was genuine.

        What we are seeing now is likely the result of many meetings with his Public Relations (PR) team to try to ‘repair’ his weak image after the apologies he gave in Malaysia.

        Classic PR politics at play here.

    2. Sebastian says:

      Anybody heard what was actually said over the radio? This is just excerpts, but it’s not really RedBull telling Vettel not to pass Webber.

    3. svw says:

      Well said Seb!

      Why should Seb sacrifice the change of a victory to gift a win to a team mate that almost cost him the 2012 world championship? Mark in no way deserved such a gift.

      Seb was right to do what he did. I applaud that decision and also the statement he made today.

      It was good to see Seb be brutally honest for once. But unfortunately he’ll get a lot of bashing in the media for it. The saddest thing is that Webber only gets praise for being brutally honest like this. Talk about double standards.

      1. Gareth says:

        Yes but this is TEAM sport. If your boss says to you, you must do this, you do it, not disobey it and then say, well i will do it again.

      2. Sebee says:

        You know what I am just wondering about now?

        I wonder if RBR paid Webber the P1 $ bonus that surely goes with a win in his contract? If he followed Team orders…

      3. Mike J says:

        that’s a good point Sebee. Maybe they ‘split the difference’???..maybe tossed a coin??…arm wrestle anyone?

      4. Rob T says:

        I don’t think he would. Webber isn’t motivated by Money, if he was he wouldn’t be living in England paying taxes, he would be in a Tax Haven along with every other driver on the grid.

        Webber did ignore a team order at Silverstone in 2011 and then when Christain told him to back off he did.

      5. DonSimon says:

        That’s a fine point you’ve made there. I would love to know!

      6. Christopher Cave says:


      7. Aficion says:

        Perhaps because…. the people to whom he owes his career asked him to? Because if Webber would’ve been as ruthless as Seb was, he would’ve run him off in that corner, as he was entitled to? That’s what the team was trying to avoid, and they were clearly right in anticipating it. Vettel’s lucky that Mark was a gentleman. Mark is unlucky that his team-mate was a douchebag.

      8. Bomber says:


        The only reason that Vettel was in a position to overtake Webber was because he was allowed to pit before Webber.

        The driver who is ahead on the track is given priority in his choice of when to pit.

        Vettel was allowed to pit ahead of Webber to keep him ahead of Hamilton not to give him the chance to overtake Webber.

        If the team had known what he would do they would not have pitted him before Webber.

        Why is it that the apologists for Vettel cannot see what he has done by such treachery.

    4. Wayne says:

      This guy is a shocking hypocrite, I’ve gone from not supporting this guy to actively disliking him on a personal level. Here is a guy who has had all the breaks possible in F1, owes 90% of his world championship success to A Newey and basically has now admitted that he lied when he apologised after the last race.

      This guy is a role model for no-one – I’d hate my kids to grow up to be anything like him – no amount of success excuses the arrogance and outright crappiness of this guys attitude!

      1. russ says:

        Ditto my friend…Mike Schumacher all over again.

      2. ken Smith says:

        My thoughts exactly Russ,bash ,crash, cheat, anyway to win.Selfish arrogance seems to be part of their make up.Oh for the days of Fangio, Moss and Brabham.

      3. Christopher Cave says:

        Good point! I recall a public apology MS was forced to make shortly after joining Ferrari and he swore he would never do it again after the media had a field day with it.

        It’s all about public image and Vettel is trying to repair his after having been perceived as weak following his apologies in Malaysia.

        Not good for his long term career interests in a dog-eat-dog sport like F1. His managers, etc. will know from Senna’s continued popularity that F1 fans can forgive a driver who behaves poorly because their desire to win is so great.

        Whether it is genuine in Vettel’s case I’m not so sure. I believe we saw his true colours in Malaysia and there’s no shame in that for mine.

      4. Ravi says:

        This “role model for kids” has started sounding like a broken record now Wayne. Sports personalities are cut from a different mould and expecting them to fall-in-line and play the correct “moral” role model is just very naive.

        And I will go out on a limb and say this – No one of us has always done the right thing and to expect this from others is double-standards.

      5. Paul Kirk says:

        Sorry Ravi, you’re raving a bit!
        If you’re in the public eye you need to behave correctly, present yourself well and observe certain accepted standards otherwise the millions of critics around the world will develope a poor/bad opinion of you. Like many of us have of Vettel!

      6. Sasidharan says:

        With this behaviour you won’t be able to sell anything. Thats where actual money of a celebrity lies. Roger Federer a classic example. Button, Rosberg in F1. Not may dislike them

      7. Class and sportsmanship are things in short enough supply in today’s world. When Stirling Moss objected to Mike Hawthorne’s DQ for getting a push start during a GP and Hawthorne was subsequently allowed to keep the points he earned, Moss lost the WDC by ONE point that year as a result of being an up front guy.

        The Germans in this sport would do well to understand and respect the rest of the world for a change. Vettle’s chosen role model may have somthing to do with it. For example, running into Damon Hill in an attempt to “win” and parking the car on course during qualification at Monaco come to mind – at least the FIA dealt with both of those incidents even if the “teams” didn’t. [mod]

      8. AlexD says:

        Interesting comment…there is something in it…

      9. Jack says:

        Germans like Nico Rosberg? Sure Schumacher and Vettel are morally questionable individuals, but lets not generalise..

      10. Dave says:

        When did the FIA deal with Schumacher driving into/across Damon Hill???

        Last time I looked he was still credited with the WDC from that year.

      11. Alboreto says:

        The Germans in this sport would do well to understand and respect the rest of the world for a change.

        How did this go thru moderation? and what was deletet?
        I have a question Mr Allen you write here befor that senna ans schumachen never disobey teamorder. What is with silverstone 94. The team told him to come in.didn`t they? and he steyed out .

      12. HR says:

        I don’t think Seb is morally perfect but the angst and exaggerated reactions towards him and this incident are really over the top

      13. Wayne says:

        It might have been over the top when he did what he did in the race… But not now surely? The guy apologised, was told he was wrong by his employer and now he goes and says he might do it again? Anyone else would be unemployed in the morning. Celebs should not get away with acting like they are above the morals of other people mate.

      14. DonSimon says:

        What Wayne said. At the time it was all a bit OTT but he’s made himself sound like a right p***k here.

      15. Sut says:


    5. Mitchel says:

      We all know he appreciates British humour- it’s clearly a topical Thatcher tribute!

    6. tara says:

      Honestly why did he even bring this back up again?
      Everyone had already picked a side – irrespective of his obviously half-arsed apology. Now he just goes and stirs the pot more? Is he trying to fire up his team? Marks team? highlight cracks for the others to exploit?
      I know everyone wants good racing and champions but surly you be an aggressive driver without being a total ‘[mod]?
      And to think i wanted him to win last year

    7. upinfront says:

      Seb is at the top and has brought home 3 WDCs in a row. It is not surprising that he thinks he created the sun, the earth and the moon. This incident and his contradictory behavior clearly show his inner drive and complete focus on himself. He has some reason to mention the indirect payback. Webber is not a complete innocent.

      Seb’s handlers clearly grabed him and are now pushing the line that, while deplorable from sportsmanship standpoint, these guys are in a big dollar war zone and he needs to stand up for himself rather than take endless heat. Bad PR strategy on his part to mix messages. His recent comments only throw salt on wounds and add to image of dysfunction at RB. instead of the index finger, Seb now flipping the bird and trying to show his one chest hair.

      I despise him for this incident, but as others have said, it is too early to manage a race ten laps out. Forget about worsening relationship spin. It has always been chilly between them. Seb’s needy, immature, but lightning fast. Mark is a man and doesn’t match up to boy wonder.

      It’s Seb’s team and the rest are begrudgingly happy to spin ithe PR machine as best as possible while depositing checks and stacking up trophies. Positioning yourself as hell bent on winning is not the worst team image even if it plays out in a way that makes everyone hold their nose. Winning is ugly sometimes.

    8. kevin n says:

      Obviously these types of situations have been discussed inside the team. Both of the drivers were given the order and Sebastian went ahead and broke the agreement. Now he is saying he is a racer and he deserved the win? What an embarrassing comment. As I said before, these things have a tendency of sorting themselves out in a very ugly way – think Senna and Prost or Gilles Villeneuve and Didier Pironi.

      If the team had any self respect they would “stick it to” Sebastian by making an innocuous error resulting in a little DNF.

  2. bruno menilli says:

    So, Vettel has said he would do the same again – and I think this attitude will cost him dearly on many fronts such as prospective teams he may want to drive for[or should I say with ], sponsors, team personnel and last but not least the fans.

    I for one have lost a great deal of respect for this boy, and would never buy anything associated with him.

    Marko has said he never wanted to ‘diss’ Webber before the season – so why has he taken so long to say so?

    I hope that , for whatever reason he does not win any more Championships.

    Winning does not make you a Champion.

      1. Charlie says:


      2. brny666 says:

        -3. This is F1. He’s fast. He’ll never be out of a drive. Simple.
        This over the top dramatization of what he did by know-it-all people proclaiming him morally bankrupt is really getting tiresome. I’m not sure how any sane person can actually take these comments seriously.

      3. Sue says:

        No indeed, getting the most points in any given year does.

      4. bruno menilli says:

        F1 is supposed to be a sport, so where does this win at all costs end ? maybe with the equivalent of diving in football ? I guess there are even people out there that condone Lance Armstrong for what he did.

    1. Sebastian says:

      Eh… Alonso stopping Hamilton in the pits 2007… I don’t think it will be a major factor.

      When you sign the best drivers you know they’re in it to win it. You can only expect a true nr 2 driver to go for such a team order so early in the season. Rosberg is a huge exception, but he hasn’t had a stellar record at Mercedes yet so I think he still feels he needs to play nice.

      If the same order was given to Webber he would have been furious!

      1. Dougel says:

        I think you’ll find Alonso did that because Hamilton blocked Alonso and broke an agreement to let Alonso have a clear quali run. Hamilton was the guilty party, Alonso was just equaling the score.

      2. **Paul** says:

        I’m glad I’m not the only one who remembers what happened in Hungary!

    2. F1 Badger says:

      I agree with your sentiments 100%. But I don’t think that SV’s attitude will hinder his Ferrari prospects. They favour the ‘lead driver’ system. Only the future will tell!!

      1. bruno menilli says:

        You may be right – but at Ferrari you know you are driving for them, and team ‘orders’ are just that, and that really was the point I was trying to make as regarding prospective teams, and I also don’t think he would get away so lightly if he did the same thing at Ferrari ?

      2. F1 Badger says:

        Couldn’t agree more, Ferrari would come down on him like a Ton of bricks. Any team that would see off Prost would show the door to anyone that didn’t respect the team. I wasn’t trying to contradict you, just mentioning that I think he’d fit in well there….as long as FA wasn’t there!!!

    3. **Paul** says:

      “I think this attitude will cost him dearly on many fronts such as prospective teams he may want to drive for”

      I meanwhile think that every team manager on the grid would like to have Vettel, because he’s further demonstrated he’ll use all legal means avaliable to win. For me the only other guy who does that is Alonso. That’s Alonso who blocked his teammate (in revenge) in Hungary 2007 qualifying, Alonso who was willing to ‘take it’ to McLaren over documents they had about the Ferrari, Alonso who is happy to overtake his team mate on the pitlane entry, Alonso who calls for his team mate to be moved out of his way, some would stick something in their about the Piquet crash too (I’ll not as it’s unproven)…

      And that’s why Alonso and Vettel are the two best on the grid. They’re selfish, greedy and want to win at all costs, but those are the attributes that set them apart from other drivers in F1 and make them the best, and that is why Vettel would get a drive at any team in F1 in my opinion.

      1. SimonR says:


        Vettel knows exactly how important it was to do this for his future career, smart boy, well played

      2. IgMi says:

        If I was a team manager I would rather have Adrian Newey.

      3. **Paul** says:

        Newey is no good without a top driver though. If Neweys cars were so good then Webber would always follow Vettel home, he doesn’t. Heck, Mark Webber hasn’t ever finished 2nd in the drivers championship, his best result is third.

        Webber isn’t a slouch, he’s faster than 85% of the guys on the grid. So ask yourself why he’s not right there. The team want him to be there, because it’s worth $$s to them!

    4. Wayne says:

      Great post, totally agree with your sentiment. No more Redbull for me.

      1. Paul Kirk says:

        And I bet RB sales in Oz declines too!

      2. Marcin says:

        I bet you it doesn’t.

      3. Endres says:

        Too funny!

        Red-bull-n-tonic please.

    5. McLaren78 says:

      The boy just paves the ground for his Ferrari drive for 2016 onwards after Alonso retires. That’s where all those drivers demanding no 1 status go. Simple as that.

      1. Endres says:

        Hello, we have a winner!

        Hey, James should inquire with AW as to Scuderia’s retirement plan….

    6. Joel says:

      So sad this happened at a time when I was starting to warm-up towards him.

    7. Schumilewis says:

      If I were Webber, I would have a quiet word with Vettel to tell him if he tries it again he’ll be run off the track or taken out of the race. Might make him think twice about it.

    8. Gene says:

      Marko never ‘dissed’ Mark at all. He stated opinions that I think even Mark would agree with:

      “It seems to me that Webber has on average two races per year where he is unbeatable, but he can’t maintain this form throughout the year, And as soon as his prospects start to look good in the world championship, he has a little trouble with the pressure that this creates. In comparison with Seb [Vettel's] rising form, it seems to me that Mark’s form somehow flattens out. Then, if some technical mishap occurs, like with the alternator for example, he falls relatively easily into a downward spiral. No driver remains unaffected by this, because the tension is palpable. In 2010, it was particularly extreme. Webber headed into the final race with better chances than Vettel, and he probably carried the disappointment of his defeat into the 2011 season, which is so easy to understand.”

      Helmut is trying to explain, in his opinion, possible reasons why Mark hasn’t come out on top vs Seb in the past 4 years. Nowhere does he say that Mark is awful, or can’t win, or that he doesn’t have what it takes. He mentions that he feels Mark struggles with pressure a bit, and that is as clear as day if you’ve followed his title campaigns. Mark was so close to a title in 2010, you wouldn’t blame the guy for carrying a bit of that dissapointment into 2011.

      It’s the media and fans which jump on comments like this and twist them into the conclusion that “Marko is dissing Mark”. I get the feeling that many fans don’t read the actual comments, and only read the edited down versions that the media present in their articles. Not blaming the fans for that, but a little research can usually come up with the full extended quotes that provide vital context which the edited down stuff simply doesn’t have.

      Seb struggled to answer the “Would you do it all the same way again” question, btw. He didn’t come right out and say “Yes” emphatically. He said it was very difficult to say. If you watch the video of the interview, you can see even more clearly how he’s trying to put thought into his answer. He’s stuggling because he didn’t agree with the team’s decision to invoke team orders AT THAT TIME. He’s said repeatedly that he heard it, but didn’t UNDERSTAND it. (an opinion I agree with…there’s a time and place for team orders, and it certainly isn’t in the 2nd race of the season, and it certainly isn’t when you’ve told your driver through the entire race to ‘just be patient’… giving him the impression that he’d have his chance to race at the end… I, for one, wouldn’t understand that order either). Seb never says he will NEVER follow team orders. But the media twists & edits the quote down to make Seb out to be an evil, vindictive driver, rubbing his hands together & plotting his next chance to defy team orders.

      Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the fact that we’ve finally got another set of teammates with some real conflict between them. But to make either of these guys out to be the ‘bad guy’ is wrong. You have got to understand fully their motivation and reasons for their actions, and not put them in these personality extremes.

      1. bruno menilli says:

        Vettel has now said [ knowing what the team orders were ] that he would do the same again, and that Webber didn’t deserve the win – so now he considers he’s in charge of who wins !

        I don’t think he knows what he’s talking about, much like Hamilton a few years ago with all his gangsta rap friends around him.

        Maybe Vettel needs a period of not winning much to learn some humility and respect.

        Then, maybe he will stop thinking everyone will believe the nonsense he comes out with.

  3. Dan says:

    Oh my God this is delicious…can’t wait to see these two together on track during a race. There’s magic in store I feel…

    1. tim clarke says:

      i feel the magic won’t arrive because generally Seb is a little way up the track! :)

      1. Scuderia McLaren says:


        Mark has used 1 of his 2 GP winning performances per year. We might see him at Silverstone again.

      2. Bring Back Murray says:

        LOL Poor Mark Webber…

      3. Andrew M says:

        Yeah, this isn’t “Prost vs Senna” or “Hamilton vs Alonso”, Vettel has shown Mark a pretty clean pair of heels in their time together. They were only close in 2010 because of Vettel’s car failures.

      4. GH says:

        So you manage to recall Vettel’s mechanical failures of 2010, however, fail to acknowledge Webber’s “bad luck” with KERS/race starts/mechanical failures of 2012?

      5. Andrew M says:

        Hardly, they’re just not comparable in magnitude.

        In 2010 Vettel lost c. 65-70 points more than Webber through mechanical failures (mostly Australia, Bahrain and Korea) and still beat him home.

        In 2012 Vettel beat Webber by 100 points. Are you seriously suggesting Webber’s various maladies were worth 100 points more than Vettel’s, especially considering Vettel lost a race win in Valencia through his alternator problem?

        (Plus Webber’s poor starts can hardly all be put down to car issues, he’s never been a good starter for most of his career.)

      6. Dan says:

        Well Tim they’ll have to meet on track at some point, if it takes a few races because Seb is ahead generally then the tension will just build nicely to the moment when they do. I thought it was 50/50 as to whether this would eventually be forgotten about and everything would calm down, that’s certainly out the window now!

      7. Bring Back Murray says:

        He can only get so far up the track by the first corner!

      8. brny666 says:

        Yeh, but consider that the only way Mark could have worst starts is by starting in reverse and going backwards at lightsout.

      9. brandon says:

        except for when he’s behind mark..

  4. Ed says:

    Well done Seb, you’ve well and truely shot yourself in the foot now. Webber will now do all he can to upset the Redbull apple cart now.

    I would not be at all surprised to see the 2 of them come together at least once this year, and if it comes down to a final race, I expect Webber to do everything he can to prevent Vettle winning.

    1. sergiu says:

      Hope you are right!

    2. Scuderia McLaren says:

      So basically Webber will continue to act as he had done for the last few years. Made no difference then I suppose.

      1. Ross Price says:


      2. brny666 says:


    3. Michael says:

      Well, alright then. Tell us how u really feel Seb. It’s official he really is a spoilt brat.

    4. Sebee says:

      If Webber clearly does something melicious to stop Vettel on track he will not only get smacked by the FIA, but that will be the end of his F1 carrier. He better race clean for his team and his carrier. He’s too old to rehabilitate if he ends up looking bitter and reckless with stunts like pushing Vettel into the wall.

      Do you see anyone braking down his door trying to hire him? Ferrari? Not likely, unless it’s a 3rd driver role.

      1. Luke Clements says:

        He’s got too much class to crash into Seb, and theres no sign of him looking bitter..did you see the Chinese press conference? Lotus have wanted Webber for years and the team principal is a big fan. He’d probably still get a drive there if he wanted it, but I doubt he would. I was hoping he would lat year as then I’d have my two favourite drivers in the same team, but don’t think it will ever happen.

      2. Sebee says:

        Indeed Luke you’ve got a point there, Lotus makes sense for Webber and vice versa. It would be wise for Lotus to keep their options for next year.

        I’m not sure Kimi wants to go elsewhere. But it wouldn’t be out of the question for Kimi to go along with Vettel.

        I think 2014 driver lineup changes are going to be quite interesting.

      3. Michael says:

        I would love to see Mark at Lotus. He is a very cerebral driver and has the car setup and feedback skills to really help them along with car development.

        Covnersely, I would love to see Kimi at Red Bull as well. I think he would light a fire cracker underneath Vettel and would take no prisoners. It would be two “bullish” heads butting.

        I can imagine the possible conversation:
        Pit Wall: “Kimi, hold position, do not overtake Seb”.
        Kimi: “Shut up, do not talk to me, I know what I am doing”.

    5. Joel says:

      One thing is sure – Ron will never hire Vettel in McLaren.

      1. Sebee says:

        Vettel is EXACTLY the type of driver Ron would love to have driving for him right now.
        A ruthless winning machine.

        But don’t worry Joel, Vettel will hand out hugs and kiss babies when he’s 45. On weekends he will come over to Shumi’s house to joke about how no one ever thought Schumi’s 7 would be broken. James will do a lovely book about Vettel to go along with the one he did about Schumi. All will be right with the world once again.

        But before that happens. There are WDCs to be won. Vettel is the man to win them.

      2. brny666 says:

        I agree with most of what you say however other than current economical environmental and sociopolitical issues I really don’t see much wrong with the world.

      3. Andrew M says:

        Yeah, Ron loved it when Alonso challenged his authority. They’ve been best buds ever since.

      4. Kenny says:

        Want to bet? No matter how much they hate him, If he were available all the Team Bosses would hire him. Guys Like Vettel, Hamilton and Alonzo are very much in demand. I can wager a 1000 pounds if you go ask Don this question that he will say he would still hire Vettel.

    6. Fan says:

      Vettle should not expect any help from Webber, but that doesn’t concern me because I think Vettle has proven that he doesn’t not need Webber’s help to win championships. Webber never supported him and I appauld him saying what we have all already known.

  5. MR says:

    Vettel doesn’t mention where he supported Webber in the past??
    If Horner thought he was in charge this latest statement shows that in the eyes of Vettel he certainly is not.
    Vettel may be a multiple world champion but he certainly cannot be someone who is seen as a shining example or mentor in his industry. With millions in the bank earned from this same industry I doubt whether Vettle cares a hoot………Pity, I supported him in the past….time to find another favourite.

    1. Sebee says:

      Vettel support Webber?

      I think you need to check again to see what number is on each car.

      1. Dan says:

        Oh its like that is it?

      2. Sebee says:

        Darn skippy! :-)

      3. K5enny says:

        Webber almost went through 2011
        –without a win
        –with a huge car advantage …

        -until the last race – where Seb pulled over and waved his number 2 through.

    2. Endres says:

      Cool, can i have your jacket?

      I’m a 44

    3. Jeff says:

      If you listen carefully, you can hear in the background the sound of Christian Horner’s goolies rolling gently down pit road.

  6. David (Sydney) says:


    Seb is digging himself deeper and deeper.

    “I do not apologise for winning.”

    “I was indirectly paying Webber back.”

    He’ll lose a lot of fans. And probably gain some. One thing’s for sure: he’ll lose team support just when he’ll need it the most considering he’s above that sort of thing.


    1. Wade Parmino says:

      Yes. I have never been a Vettel fan however prior to the Malaysia incident I did at least respect him. But now, especially with Vettel’s attitude, I no longer do. He may well now achieve a record he never even thought of: most hated driver ever.

      1. Aaron Noronha says:

        No Winning driver or for that matter successful man is loved. We all envy them because we wish we were half the men they are. So no matter how much you hate him or the other fans hate him, Look at Micheal, He was hated because he was winning the same with Seb and the same with any driver who performs consistently. I bet you everything will change when he changes those blue overalls for scarlet Red.

      2. paul says:

        Speak for yourself dude, I don’t wish to be a 1/1000th of that arrogant, hypocritical, dishonest child, let alone half of him! I’ve got more ‘man’ in my little finger, and I reckon I could drive faster too. Same cars, any Scottish A-road of his choosing, he would be in my dust lol! (or should that be spray, its always too wet here for the roads to get dusty!)

      3. Random 79 says:

        ‘We all envy them because we wish we were half the men they are’

        Speak for yourself.

        Yes if we had a race he’d beat me: Big deal.

        There’s more to life than that.

      4. Greg (Aus) says:

        He’s not a man, he’s a boy. His behaviour throughout this saga is proof of that.

        Successful men can be liked, it is patently false to suggest that you need to be a jerk to be successful. Some people are just like that, young Vettel is a case in point, his idol was the same. Small wonder really.

      5. Mike J says:

        ”No Winning driver or for that matter successful man is loved.”

        Couldn’t be further from the truth. I know of many champions that are loved and admired by fans…..and i certainly don’t admire sports people, champions or not, that act like this.

      6. Mike says:

        I loved Fangio,and Moss,because they were exciting drivers to watch, and real sportsmen. Schumacher, And Maybe Vettel will never be in the same league,no matter what the statistics say at the end of their careers.
        It’s got nothing to do with jealousy or Hate Aaron,just sportsmanship and good character.

      7. Wade Parmino says:

        What a load of Red BULL.

    2. tim clarke says:

      to me, what’s disappointing is that teams even pull this “hold station” business in the first place! i tune in to watch a race…not a tire-nursing, points-gathering, play-it-safe-as-milk drive down the highway. let them race for goodness sake! separate the wheat from the chaff! let the drivers stop being polite to one another…bring back BEN HUR!!!

    3. nusratolla says:

      he will lose team support? dream on :D

      1. Aaron Noronha says:


      2. Luke Clements says:

        Whats more realistic nusratolla, is that he will have “full team support” as spruiked by the RBR PR team…whilst he has a few “unfortunate” pit stops, where gosh, darn, the mechanics drop a few guns or get the wrong tyres ready. And what a shame that would be ;)

    4. CarlH says:

      I’ve lost a lot of respect for him today. I wasn’t that fussed with what he did in Malaysia, but he obviously felt that people had enough affection for him that he could just apologise and it would be forgotten.

      Now he’s realised that didn’t work he’s going on the offensive. If he really felt this way then why apologise after the race and say that he had ‘robbed’ Webber of victory?

      He says he is sorry for putting himself above the team, but in coming out with all this rubbish straight after Horner and Marko had said the matter was resolved, that is exactly what he is doing.

      I wonder if he’s been taking PR lessons from a certain Mr Schumacher in the last three weeks?

      1. Msta says:

        Seb only apologised when he saw the teams reaction, they were angry and he feared what they could do to him. Now that there has been no punishment or repercussions its back to his same old attitude as usual. This event has only made that worse.

    5. Wayne says:

      He’ll only gain fans among those who believe that winning is everything in life and things like morals come a distant second – he’s welcome to those fans.

      1. Sebee says:


        First read this:

        Second, remind me please what does the FIA Morals Champion’s Trophy look like again? Does that driver get assigned a number for the following season? Does Guiness World Record book keep a list of top F1 Morals Champions?

        What are we watching this weekend? Kindergarden coloring competition?

      2. Wayne says:

        So just to be clear, because there are no points for decency it doesn’t matter? I’m guessing that you don’t get any points in your job for decency or even a trophy but I bet you try and be decent right ;)

      3. Mike J says:

        do you know a bloke called Stirling Moss?…..ok how about Jack Brabham or Jackie Stewart? There are examples of both WDC and non WDC drivers.
        It is galling that people put ‘ruthless’ as a pre requisite for a champion as in the case of Vettel. I have seen many, many champions who don’t need this type of attitude. Focussed, hard, ‘driven’, single minded, self belief yes, ruthless seems to only to be a later day ‘add-on’. Morals seem to be lost. I know which champion i will support.

      4. Sebee says:

        Mike J,

        Lucky for everyone there is enough drivers to favor, support and cheer for.

        What I find a little funny in this whole thing is that someone people choose to see Webber as moral, yet clearly that is not the case in their run-ins. A solid argument could be made that Webber is a worse offender than Vettel trying to trip up his team mate on a number of occasions – yet fans are for him and ready to hang Vettel. Strangely misplaced and lapsided view I think.

      5. kmcc says:

        Grow up. Winning is not everything. Nor is going to your grave with the highest bank balance. These men like all professional sportsmen are paid to entertain, and as a result are watched by many millions of people every week. They, whether they like it or not are role models for future generations. Would you be pleased if you child came home and said “hey dad, today I really beat shit out of that kid because he didn’t do what I said he should”?

      6. Ravi says:

        I’m sure you hold Webber ignoring team orders in the past in the same moral light

      7. Wayne says:

        I don’t recall Webber apologising to VET and his whole team and then saying ‘I might just do it all again’ meaning his apology was totally insincere.

      8. Sebee says:

        On second thought, anyone who seconds my nomination of Webber as 2 Times F1 Morals Champion, stand up and be counted.

      9. Miha Bevc says:

        For which years?

      10. Sebee says:


        Any two years you like! See the “no. 2″ theme? :-)

      11. Aaron Noronha says:

        Winning is everything Wayne. That is what all the drivers on the grid aim to achieve no matter the cost. In 5 years no one will remember this. They will only remember his records. And trust me it doent bother most people. He stood up and took what is rightfully his, 4 years 4 times fighting for the championship untill the very end 3 WDC, 26 wins, 48 podiums, 38 Poles vs Webber record of only one fight for WDC (that too because his team mate has 5 retirement in races he was comfortably leading head for victory)9 victories, 35 podiums 11 poles. In the same car Vettel seems to be achieving at least 3 times better results than webber just looking at the stats. I mean if in 4 years you cant beat your team mate even once over the course of the entire year why even pretend you are anything than a no 2 driver. Nice guys dont finish first. If that were the case Pedro de la rosa would be multiple World Champion. Look at Micheal, Alonzo, Hamilton, they all are ruthless that is what Champions are made up off. This is not about being liked or hated. Its purely based on performance. No matter how many fans hate him, I still bet his sponsors and his team will still support him 100% as long as he brings in the bacon

      12. Mike J says:

        Ah, records get broken too.
        ”He stood up and took what is rightfully his”.
        There is that entitlement thing again.

        Make no mistake, people will remember this just as they have with MSC unless of course, there is ‘blind love’ so nothing can change that.
        This ruthless term is becoming a pain and misplaced. For the last time there are many many champions that don’t need to be ‘ruthless’….and they are respected more for it.

      13. Ahmed says:

        +1 Aaron.
        Well said

      14. Msta says:

        Yes but no amount of bacon, money, WDC’s or morals will save his or anyone else’s soul.

        The bacon gets eaten, the money gets spent, the memory of WDC’s fade away, and moral’s get broken.

        We all die but the soul lives on. It’s not just about winning.

      15. Jake says:

        “He stood up and took what is rightfully his”.
        Please explain why the win was rightfully his.
        In the race I saw, Webber beat him on the track fair and square. The Weasel struck after the team called race over.
        Yes it bothers me and lots of other people who have posted here.

      16. Wayne says:

        It’s simply NOT true that people only remember the stats, not at all, look at Schumacher – even people outside of F1 know more about him than the stats, they know about the things that he did whihc were wrong and sometime were plain cheating. He will always be known for it.

      17. Aaron Noronha says:

        Guys lot of drivers were ruthless in their era but the press coverage was not as intense as it is now. In our internet age every small detail gets over coverage. I mean you got facebook twitter, rss feeds and a million fan sites. Those days there was only a news paper and no place or forum for fans to actually express themselves like we have now. If there was an outlet i am sure you would have seem similar behavior from our older heroes. I had an uncle who used to hate senna because he was ruthless. In fact google the spats between Senna and Prost where they had to take one and other off to win world championships do you really think that has tarnished their image as all time greats? Or for that matter any other spats between race driver any racing or any sports. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_rivalries#Drivers.

        Fyi most people harbored the same feelings towards some of the legends them as you have against Vettel, Its quite natural and its also good for the sport.Race Drivers dont get paid to come second they get paid to win. Its very ruthless at the top and once you stop being consistent you get dumped. Sometimes even good driver lose their seats. Only the best, aggressive and ruthless drivers survive, the nice guys well like Pedro de la Rosa will tell fade away or for that matter Webber, I mean seriously in 20 years no one will even remember Webber while Vettel, Alonzo and Hamilton will surely leave a mark in history. One bad move will not tarnish the other Victories against his name. Fyi most people harbored the same feelings towards some of the legends them as you have against Vettel, Its quite natural and its also good for the sport, and really great for the ratings.

        Love him or hate him, you cant ignore him. And he has got at least 10 more years of racing in him obviously he wont win all the WDC and races in those 10 years but his speed and consistency has assured that any top team he want to drive for will accommodate him even if he is selfish or ruthless even a team like Mclaren if they knew he was available. So there will be at least a few more Championships and a lot of wins before he retires.

        @Msta end of the day history will remember Vettel as a multiple champion and no matter of how much funs hate him, for every one fan that hates him there is another who adores him, at the end of the day he is equally part of the Red Bull Success as much as Adrian Newey is. Eventually He will drive for Ferrari just like they choose Alonso who too is very self centered they will chose him, I think they have made it very clear. And this really doesnt matter to them, what matters is a driver who is consistent and fast and winning. Racing isnt about dying and soul living on, its purely about winning. There is no “it doent matter if you win or lose what really matter is that you took part” attitude. There are only winners and the one who only take part exit eventually without anyone noticing. As long as he keeps winning his legacy will live on.

        here watch this
        They are fighting from the last pit stop to the conculsion of the overtake, i am very sure Webber dint turn his car down until he knew he had the lead and everything settled down. What he did say was that the team said turn the engines and maintain position. He dint say that he actually turned his engine down. After his pit stop they were neck and neck till the completion of the overtaking. The move itself was not conducted on the straight but 3 or 4 corner later because Vettel had better traction on his tyres. Vettel had smartly opted to use the faster tyres in the final stint. Webber knew Vettel was trying to overtake him and he tried to even defend it by pushing him nearly into the wall an offence for which Micheal Schumacher was given a penalty a few years back. Turning the engine revs is not complicated. its just a dail or a button that the driver needs to press. Watch the reply of the overtake, if indeed Webber engine was turned down dont you think Vettel would have been atleast a car lenght ahead before breaking for the first corner due to the double benefit of using DRS and the added speed and acceleration advantage of running higger revs. They were side by side by the first corner which means Webber was on full engine map. Vettel make the move after 3 corners because he had saved the faster tire for last stint while webber used them before his last pitstop. That proves two things one that when Webber was on the faster tyres before his last stop, intentionally backed Vettel into Hamilton for reason only he knows(no points for speculation and i am not alluding anything but this point was not lost on Vettel and you can hear him complaining). And secondly he did try to fight back after Vettel overtook him but his pace on those tyres were no match for Vettel on his tyres. So the only way i see it is that Vettel did ignore team orders but he also make a legitimate overtake move without Webber being handicapped by turning his car down as most of you assume.

        Now for the third part Webber isnt the one to back off from a confrontation. But ever wonder why he came back quiet not because he has moved on or he is a greater man. I am sure after the race the team showed him that he is equally to blame for this situtation. He has ignored team order many times before, nearly cost Vettel the championship in Brazil. I think you need to read his own views on team order of which i very sure was also mentioned to him after the last race. And this is the actual reason he has kept his mouth shut and Vettel has opened his. This is his own article written for bbc.

        I am pretty sure if it were he who was chasing Vettel, he too would have ignored the orders and then said the very same thing he said in his column all over again.

        Btw I am not German. And among the current lot of drivers I adore Vettel and Hamilton and respect Alonzo although i do not like him so much.

      18. Sebee says:


        What I have learned about Schumi after all these years is that the man on the track was not the man in real life.

        I learned that he is one of is not the most balanced, humble, focused sports figures (who owns their respective sport records) on this planet.

        So he run some British or Canadian guy of the track once or twice in a heat of battle. So what? In the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter. Everyone lived, only egos were hurt.

        I think many fans here are not able to detach on-track acts from the person. We act high and mighty as if we never ran a red light or drove a bit agressively on the motorway. Doesn’t make us horrible human beings. Just a bit silly in that moment.

        I don’t see the world media run you Wayne through the grinder for 3 weeks over that red light you ran in the school zone 8 years ago.

      19. NotIdiot says:

        “people will remember this…”
        “many people hate him….”
        “people will…”
        “people will not…”

        When you said “people” you mean “english people”, am I right?

      20. Rene says:

        Is it ‘moral’ to rob the fans of racing two-thirds into a race? Do other sports just ‘settle’ before full time, effectively wasting everybody who’s watching’s time? Team orders are the equivalent of going to a music concert and being played a CD for the last 20 minutes. It is disgusting. I cannot believe that everyone is talking about Vettel when clearly the whole of F1 is blatently disrespecting fans by allowing ‘team orders’ like these. I know that it is a team sport, but fans are who pay for every team in the end.

      21. Wayne says:

        Good grief! You say that you understand that F1 is a team sport yet CLEARLY you do not! Let’s swap it round shall we? You do not see strikers in Football tackling each other on the same team because they both want to be the one to score the goal. You do not see doubles partners in Tennis leaping into each others positions because they want to be the one who scores the point!

        You cannot complain about team orders AND say that you understand that F1 is a team sport – it’s a complete contradiction.

        F1 is a team sport and team tactics apply to beat every other team on the grid to that whihc they value most: the 100′s of millions of dollars on offer for the Constructors championship. This is the same as every sport the world over. You get to watch every driver racing every other driver on the grid (even including their team mate until the last pit-stop)!

      22. rene says:

        My point is that it make no difference to the team which driver is first and which is second – the Team get the same amount of points. Why keep a slow driver in front of a fast driver? The Team gets the same amount of points, regardless.
        What is bad about the situation as it is is that the fans get a ‘fake’ result and no one is happy (Hamilton saying that Nico deserved it). I agree that team mates should not drive each other off the road, but if the driver behind is clearly faster what is the point? People watch races because they like racing – not risk management by teams.
        You must also remember that those 100′s of millions of dollars are only there because millions of people watch the races. If those people – the people commenting here – feel that the result is artificial, they will stop watching and F1 will no longer exist.
        It is like watching a football match up to 15 minutes from the end and then the winning team decides to just pass the ball among themselves… very unsporting!

  7. Marc Ainley says:

    So he’s talking about how he apologised to the entire team as soon as he possibly could, yet insisting he’d do it again at the next possible opportunity. Well, what an empty apology.

    I’m very surprised at how little Red Bull have been able to do to calm the situation down in the last three weeks. I’m surprised at how self-centered Vettel is being after surely being reminded that he works for the team.

  8. David Ryan says:

    I know F1 isn’t a popularity contest, but someone really needs to hand Seb a copy of “How to win friends and influence people” or something – at this rate, he’s going to destroy the image and support he’s built up thus far pretty quickly. Can’t imagine Red Bull will be too pleased to hear him say he’d wilfully disobey them again as well; does rather suggest he thinks himself more important than his paymasters.

    I’ve been a fan of Vettel for a while, but I have to admit he’s losing my respect doing things like this.

    1. nusratolla says:

      I think we need warriors like Kimi, Lewis and Vettel and should immediately discontinue the Schumacher era precedents where team mates are not allowed to race each other. But what astonishes me is that the level of inconsistencies here. When Schumacher pushes Rubens to the pitwall the world comes down on him, but when Mark does it Vettel it gets shoveled under team behavior. You know what? Vettel must create new precedents for F1 something in the lines of Kimi. “Just leave him alone… he knows what he’s doing”. For in the end of the year it won’t be Mark that would be fighting the dangerous Ferrari of Alonso it would Vettel as proven in the past.

      Happy Racing :)

  9. F1 Badger says:

    I think there’s a lot of potential for Red Bull to implode this year. I’d suggest one of the drivers will leave for 2014. This level of bad will cant be sustained without issues on track. Gonna make great racing/viewing!

    1. Sebee says:

      Cooler heads will prevail.

      They are going for two #4 Championships.

      If Webber doesn’t understand his role in this, he doesn’t belong on that team. Anyone who wishes to claim high moral ground better deliver for the team.

      I’m confident it is not Webber’s mission to burn bridges behind him. He knows what he needs to do this year.

      Owner of RBR would sure let him know the two goals for 2013. In case someone is not clear on what they are:

      1. Help win #4 WCC for the Team.
      2. Help Vettel win #4 WDC.

      Anything that doesn’t fit in above two goals is unacceptable.

      1. F1 Badger says:

        All very good points and I have to agree that is more than likely the teams stance. I just think MW has nothing to loose and he clearly doesn’t like SV. He didn’t help him in the title decider and if he gets a sniff he will not get a contract for next year the he has no incentive not to try and take the title himself. Also with his mentality I think he’ll be fuming at SV’s comments. SV will want to put MW ‘back in his box’. Horner clearly doesn’t have the authority to curb them (nor do I think any other TP would). I just have a feeling (and it’s just a feeling) that there’ll be issues. You may well be right that cooler heads will prevail! Either way I’m looking forward to China and beyond!!!!

      2. Sebee says:


        What you say is true. But honestly, Webber hasn’t helped in the past and Vettel notched up 3. I think Webber is bitter about 2010, not being backed by the team. That was “supposed” to be his and that’s where this all started. He still hasn’t let that go perhaps.

        But if Webber thinks he’ll be given any room to sabotage the 2 goals for 2013, he’s dead wrong.

        Dietrich Mateschitz would sit Webber out in a blink before allowing him to became a liability in your scenario. To be honest, I’m a bit surprised he hasn’t been sidelined after those boarderline moves in Brazil 2012. I think only the fact that RBR and Vettel won made punishment of Webber unnecesary.

        There is only 1 way Webber can sabotage Vettel:
        Webber is not renewed for 2014 like you say, and WDC comes down to last race where that hypothetical act is commited.

        If given that scenario and opportunity, Webber wishes to sabotage Vettel and drag his name through mud and into the Hall of F1 Shame, and undo everything he has achieved in F1 and forever be remembered as a bitter looser who was reckless and endangered another driver tarnishing/fixing a WDC result with his action, it may be a possibilty. Do you think he would go that far? I certainly don’t.

  10. foz says:

    Why wouldn’t vettel just stay quiet, I really dont understand what he thinks he is going to achieve by saying this. It doesn’t exactly endear him to the team and the fans does it.

    Is this a ego legacy building thing?

    Does he want to be perceived as a ruthless schumacher or senna type?

    I just dont get it.

    I can appreciate his point of view and his reasoning but the whole ‘mark screwed me over so I screwed him over back and will do it again’ line is best kept in his thoughts.

    1. Aaron Noronha says:

      You never know maybe he is just trolling the press like he normally does and he will have the last laugh when this actually plays out over the course of the next few weeks. I am pretty sure an intelligent driver like him must have a very good reason to say such things. They are well thought of. I mean he had 3 weeks to think about all this. So in a few weeks things will get clearly. Unfortunately the suspense is killing us. Let the racing begin

    2. Gene says:

      He was asked the direct question. I don’t want drivers to lie, I’d rather them be honest.

      I think people take these quotes and put them in absolutes. There’s no absolute in what Sebastian said if you read it fully:

      “I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same. Had I understood [the coded Multi 21 message] and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second. I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing. He didn’t deserve it. There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

      The great thing about Seb is that he bothers to take time to give the press an answer. He even directly says to them: “There is quite a conflict…” he’s saying that the answer is not absolute. This is FAR different than the evil, devious, untrusting driver that people are making Seb out to be.

      There are times where he would have yielded, but this was not one of those times, and he had his reasons (and I frankly agree with him). The pit strategy, the tire situation between Seb and Mark, the comments made on the radio to Seb about “This is a long race, be patient”… I mean, I’ve poured over countless lap times and tire choices and stint lengths myself… everything up to the last pit stop indicated that the race was Seb’s to go after. The team orders frankly came out of nowhere and didn’t make any sense this early in the season…. maybe in Ferrari it would have made sense, but Red Bull is a team that has always held the line that there is no No.1 driver, and that they are free to race. The team simply made a mistake invoking team orders. BTW, teams make mistakes ALL THE TIME… it’s ok. Christian and Red Bull will learn from this. It appears they already have, as they’ve said that they’ll not use team orders again. BUT… THEY WILL… because this is not absolute either. It will absolutely make sense to invoke team orders in certain situations… one driver is on a different strategy, one driver is mathmatically eliminated from the championship… etc. They’re trying to tell everyone that they indeed made a mistake invoking team orders THIS time, and in similar circumstances, they wouldn’t do it that way again.

      Incidentally, I actually think that the odd decision to invoke team orders was spurred on by Alonso’s elimination. The opportunity that Alonso’s retirement gave was too big to ignore and maybe Christian felt he had to ‘steal’ these points from Ferrari… especially on a day when he was NOT expecting to be running 1-2 at the end. Maybe Sebastian felt he had to ‘steal’ these points away from Mark and Alonso…

      The main thing that I learned in this whole situation is that Red Bull were ready and willing to support Mark Webber in 1st position and give him advantage over Sebastian. Everyone saying that they only favor Seb (another absolute!) should pay very close attention.

  11. Nigel says:

    What could be truly interesting is to see who gets first call on pit stop timing. Will it be whoever is in the lead, or will it be Vettel irrespective of track position ?

    I can’t see Webber acquiescing in surrendering the timing of his last pit stop as he apparently did in Malaysia.

    1. Mike J says:

      …read the Thursday Press Conference in China and Webbers answer.
      Quite enlightening.
      Webber seems quite content in his ‘world’ at present. Vettel and Marko seem very contradictory

  12. ian says:

    Gosh! Vettel seems to be self-destructing .

    1. tim clarke says:

      are you kidding?

    2. Sossoliso says:

      Stop moaning.. I’d like a bit of whatever Vettel has been smoking myself.

    3. Fred from Sydney says:

      I think if he were self-destructing he’d be apologising for winning again.

  13. Captainj84 says:

    so all is not well between the two drivers even tho rbr have been tryin to convince us otherwise. This strikes me that in the cold light of day after the emotional highs and lows of malaysia, Vettel still thinks he is bigger than team. Will it affect his relationship with Webber? More than likely. Will affect his relationship within the team? Doubtful, the management moght look weak for a few months, but by the time the lift the constructers and wdc that will be a distant memory. I personally started to dislike Vettel after the turkey incident. I do feel that he might have fell out of favour with some fans over the whole incident, although we only have to look at Schumacher to see you can still be disliked and be considered one of the greats.

    1. Greg (Aus) says:

      I doubt they had much of a relationship after Turkey 2010. I did enjoy Mark’s comments in his book “Up Front” where he explained they needed to be told to stand closer together for post incident PR shots.

  14. Oz Jim says:

    “There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time.”

    You would when the majority of them are in your favour!!

    SV got the better pit stop lap to prevent the Lewis undercut, which I completely understand and support. At this point the team obviously needed to point this out in more stronger terms. MWs tyres were ruined and SV put in a quali style outlap on fresh rubber to find himself next to him. Based on standard team practice, MW would normally have had the stop and driven off into the distance. Combine this with whatever engine mapping/KERS settings instructions that had been enacted/ignored which were all in SVs favor, PLUS the decision by MW to go to primes on the last stint under the mistaken impression there was no threat from behind and tyre longevity not performance was the key consideration and you have the circumstances that allowed SV to be

    a) where he was on track in relation to MW as MW exited the pits
    b) apparently faster than MW for pace ‘at that stage of the race’
    c) easily able to pass MW with only a modest and inevitable fight
    d) convinced of his entitlement to the win

    The greed and arrogance and hollow apologies are secondary to his inability to recognise how the situation arose.

    1. Joe B says:

      Precisely – and this series of events, along with no specific instructions from the RBR pitwall for Vettel to either a) not pass, or b) give the position back does lead to the impression that this is the result Red Bull wanted.

      I was amazed Webber re-signed after last year, and I think he’s paying the price now even moreso than with the dodgy KERS and strategy calls of last season. More than anyone though it’s the RBR management who come out of this looking like idiots.

  15. Horno says:

    Vettel +1, he should have said this immediately after the race!
    I fully understand his decision!
    Mark is a nice guy, but Vettel is right; Mark did make Vettel’s life unnecessary difficult in some races..
    But now that we do have small glimp of insight of how things will go in that team, I don’t think this episode will be good for the RB Team.

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:

      +1 Horno. Totally agree. This is the rhetoric that Vett should have said after the race. The truth. And he is right, he simply “Webbered” Webbo. Webber ain’t no angel and his victim image makes him look more a hypocrite. Most of us watched Brazil 2012 and Britain 2011, among other moments.

      1. Dan says:

        Why should Mark have to help this punk win endless championships?? Mark is racing too. Why should he be held up by team orders that give vettel an oppotunity to pass?

      2. Aaron Noronha says:

        Because Vettel brings home the winnings. In the last 4 years together Vettel has won 26 races to webbers 9, and vettel has 38 poles to webber 11, 3 WDC to webbers 0, get the point??? If you still dont, here is the fine print, If you are running a team you would naturally prefer the driver who brings in the most Victories and Championship. If you had to put all your money on a driver who would win the championship between just the two of them. Who would you bet on? I mean all your hard earned cash???

      3. Miha Bevc says:

        And why should Vettel be held up by team orders!?

      4. Spacejunk23 says:

        Yes, you’re right. He should have said this straight after the race. But he didn’t. Instead he apologized. This says a lot about his character:

        - he didn’t have the courage to say this, choosing to lie (which I actually doubt)

        - he has now given this incident a bit more thought, and tried to excuse himself of blame, preferring to turn it around on MW, i.e. this is actually his fault not mine (more likely scenario)

        Either scenario shows Vettel not man enough to really own up to his mistake. Regardless if what he says/this, he has gone against team orders.

        [mod] giving fake apologies, changing his story, etc. are only going to divide Red Bull further.

        You could say SV is dumb for coming out and saying this, but now if he doesn’t win the WC he can blame Webber.

        SV – my estimation of you as a driver remains the same, but as a person, get a spine and become a man.

      5. absolude says:


      6. Glennb says:

        *Most of us watched Brazil 2012 and Britain 2011, among other moments.*

        In that case you will recall Mark moving over for Seb in Brazil’12 and the team saying thank you Mark over the radio. That’s 1 more time than Seb has moved over for him.

    2. McLaren78 says:

      You seem to forget that in 2010 Vettel cause the accident in Turkey, then they didn’t allow Webber to challenge Vettel in the next race, then they took his front wing and gave it to Vettel in Silverstone, they didn’t support Webber in the last 3 races although it was the sensible thing to do to win the title, favouritism was so blatant in 2010. What did you expect Webber do in ’11 and ’12 then? The one time Vettel is asked to stay behind and he throws his toys out of the pram and doesn’t care about anyone, not even the team that feeds him. RBR started everything in 2010 by favouring Vettel, they were the first.

      1. Emanuel says:

        Please, for crying out loud stop using the wing story against Sebastian. It was one of the biggest media fueled false stories in F1 and mark used the media shamelessly to make him look like the Victim of Seb’s success.
        Here are the facts from that day, which can be found if you look at it without prior judging.
        * RBR brought two new wings to the track
        * each driver got one for practice
        * Seb’s broke his
        * RBR had an internal conference before qualy, in which Marks engineering team said that:
        * they didn’t believe the new wing worked as it should (which they consequently proved in the race by winning)
        * Seb’s engineers weren’t sure, as the wing broke before they could make a full conclusion
        * Newey wanted both wings in the race
        * So RBR decided to give the new wing to SEB
        * When the new stuff obsessed media saw this, they went nuts
        * Flavio called his boy mark and told him to use this outrage to make him look like RBR doesn’t give equal treatment, (which obviously worked)
        * Seb, Horner and RBR kept quiet about thinking that truth will come out anyway

        Mark is not the victim, he is just not consistently fast enough to really challenge Vettel for the WDC, he is also getting older now and running out of time.
        RBR thought getting a 1-2 in Malysia and having both drivers be 1-2 in the Championship standings would be cool PR, but Seb didn’t get the Multi 21 message until mark told him in the prep room after the race. To this point Seb thought he only broke the pre-race agreement (which was supposed to protect him anyway) and may have risk the cars due to actual racing early in the season. He didn’t have time to sort his thought and was pushed by RBR Pr to apologize.
        Now three weeks after he knows how he feels about it, but he is on the media backfoot anyway. So all he can try is to show some truth. Nobody is perfect, but history will remember the winners.
        Go Vettel.

      2. growers says:


      3. Scuderia McLaren says:


      4. A.Green says:

        LOL at no sense of reality

      5. Andrew H says:


        I’d like to add that I don’t believe teams orders existed pre-race at Silverstone 2011. The team order only came about when Vettel asked for it knowing Webber was going to catch him.

        I also remember The team thanking Webber in Brazil 2012 for letting Vettel by later in the race.

        Vettel needed bugger all points in Brazil to claim WDC, Webber was entitled to fight for first to gain as much as he could in the standings.

      6. Gazza says:

        Spot on!! Vettel fans seem to have a short memory. In Turkey 2010 Red Bull made it plain that Vettel was the favoured son, the sight of Horner giving Vettel a cuddle after he had caused the collision said it all.

      7. Gene says:

        What part of “multi-21″ benefitted Red Bull’s favored son?

    3. F1Fan4Life says:

      I don’t actually remember Vettel helping Webber much in the seasons when Webber was leading the WDC. Does anyone?

      1. Chapor says:

        + 1000000000000

      2. Sue says:

        Vettel said he would if the situation arose on a couple of occasions, something Mark has never said in return. Luckily Mark self destructed so Vettel’s help wasn’t required.

      3. Glennb says:

        The only one I can recall is Turkey 2009. JB was easily leading, Webber was running 2nd, Vettel 3rd. Vettel was told to maintain position behind Webber for a 2-3 result. Actually they said “Mark is faster”. He complied with the order. Prior to the start of the race, Vettel was on ~23 points and Webber ~ 21 points. JB ~56 points.


  16. James says:

    No real surprises, both Horner & Marko have mentioned Abu Dhabi & Brazil 12, and Briatore stated ‘the only person to help Fernando in Brazil was Webber’.

    FOM have definitely missed an opportunity in not licensing ‘Shut up and drive’ as the official F1 theme tune.

  17. goferet says:

    Hmm… maybe Vettel didn’t get the full debrief, for how can Vettel believe Webber didn’t deserve the victory when he had been told to turn down his car.

    But anyway, two things this interview proves is not only does Vettel have the memory of an elephant but he also was quite hurt by Webber’s lack of support in the past e.g. Abu-Dhabi 2012 when Webber didn’t give way till the team pitted him.

    Luckily for Vettel, he’s usually at the front of a grand prix so coming out honestly to the media this way may not really hurt him in the future.

    But one thing is for sure after today’s interview, Vettel doesn’t really mean it when he says sorry (maybe he always has two fingers crossed behind his back when apologizes)

    Also confusing is the fact that it appears the team didn’t discuss beforehand the prospect of team orders seeing as Vettel didn’t know what Multi 21 meant.

    Regards, I still think Vettel would have made the same decision even though he had given it more thought because honestly, there was so much to gain.

    As for Webber, according to him, if he doesn’t score good results this season (read wins), he would consider the prospect of retirement at the end of the season >>> Seems that way.

    1. Dan says:

      Sebastian knew very well what it meant. It was evident in his facial expression when Mark said it to him after the race.

    2. Marcin says:

      He was sorry that his decision hurt his team’s feelings. He’s not sorry for what he did. He didn’t lie, he just explained it poorly by trying to do a PR exercise right after the race. Basically he’s saying I’m sorry you feel bad that I didn’t take your order, but I am sure I was right, and I’m not sorry about making my own decision to disregard your order.

      I’m not saying he did the right thing in the race, but I don’t actually think he’s being duplicitous.

      I actually thing more highly of him to come out and say, than on reflection he is happy with the decision he made, and that he would do it again. Everyone now knows where they stand.

  18. BB says:

    How to win friends and influence people by Seb
    It seems that Seb thinks that team orders are there for him to pick and choose from. And he says in a pretty straight forward manner that he wouldnt follow team orders in the future.
    Not alot of love lost between those two.
    seb and marko are running the team. I dont know what Christians Job is?

  19. Sebee says:

    Revange is best served cold.

    Please let this go on! Oh the entertainment!

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:


      Sebee, it’s going to be a great season!

    2. Bones says:

      I agree. I’m not a fan of Vettel but I’m loving this. Things are much more interesting when there is personal animosity between drivers on the grid, let alone in the same team.

      1. Sebee says:

        I know it’s wrong what I’m about to say…but it has been a long long time since 2 drivers “worked it out” at a scene of a collision.

        A fan can dream. I think these two will cool off. But just the chance of fireworks is fun. I actually hope that Vettel finds himiself behind Webber again one of these GPs. I’m sure FOM TV team have been given their instructions on what to focus on when/if that happens.

      2. GWD says:

        I think that’s very astutely put Sebee – as soon as these 2 get near each other on track, guess where the local TV director is pointing his cameramen… Win, Win for RB media attention…

      3. Sebee says:


        Wonder what the outcome would be of Webber vs. Vettel at the gravel trap ring, 1 round, no helmets?

        I do believe that in this case, it may not work out too well for Seb. Unless he has been spending his winters in a secret Brazilian UFC training camp.

      4. bomber says:


        Only one winner.

        Webber by KO

  20. Chapor says:

    I cannot believe what I just read… Unbelievable.

    1. Bring Back Murray says:

      As F1 fans this sets us up nicely for 2013.

      But what the heck. He’s just contradicted everything he said 3 weeks ago.

      1. Chapor says:

        I’d rather have a season were the fairness rules. If I want drama, I’ll sit and watch a soap opera.

        Just a word of advise to Vettel. ” Be careful of the toes you step on today, for they might me connected to the butt you have to kiss tomorrow.”

        Look at what happened to McLaren 2007.. It could have been an awesome racing season, but it was spoiled by drama of the race track.

        I fear that this episode will spark to much controversy outside of the real racing, and that Vettel and his antics will take up the headlines to much of the time. I also want to read about Caterham, Marrussia, Force India, Sauber and their races, how their pit stops worked out, what problems they are facing with their cars, what technological problems they are facing. They are also part of F1, [mod]

      2. Marcin says:

        No he hasn’t. He said he was sorry that the team felt hurt or bad. But he’s not sorry for doing what he did. Whether it was the right decision (in the race) is not the same question.

        He’s clarified his position, and it should actually be lauded that he did so. He put his cards on the table.

        On a side note. If I’m wrong in the above (quite possibly) and he has actually backflipped on what he said 3 weeks ago in the heat of the aftermath of battle, then is that not a mature thing to do? He’s had the benefit of time and counsel to decide on his position, and he has come out with it. Or is everyone saying that you should always stick with first thing that comes out of your mouth, regardless of it’s validity?

  21. Zack says:

    These comments from Vettel are really inflammatory.

    Christian Horner has been seriously undermined. The way he dealt with Turkey 2010 was terrible, and this situation is even worse. He has completely lost control – seems like Vettel and his biggest fan Helmut Marko run the team.

    I’m sure Dietrich will not be too impressed. Makes you wonder if Vettel will indeed be moving to Ferrari in the very near future…

    1. Aaron says:

      I agree with this. The person coming out of this worst seems to be Horner. He clearly does not have much authority at that team.

      1. CarlH says:


        He does an interview saying the matter had been resolved and then Vettel comes out with this. If he was in control of the situation then a lid should have been put on this as soon as they left Malaysia.

        Vettel: ‘Sanction, punishment, what do you expect to happen?’

        Blantantly knows that he has commited the cardinal sin of ignoring orders from his team and there’s not a damn thing they can do about it. I wouldn’t be surprised if this incident changes his demeanour significantly as he now knows he is above punishment.

    2. brunomenilli says:

      Maybe RB want Kimi and Mark to race together – would make a good team I think.

    3. C Lin says:

      Looks like it , what with Stefano praising Vettel recently.

    4. McHarg123 says:

      Any ‘possible’ future move to Ferrari might just have been dashed with those comments.
      Ferrari are a TEAM!!

      1. growers says:

        Hate to burst your bubble but CH has just won 3 back-to-back double championships and has excelled in one of the toughest positions in business let alone motorsport. He’s probably not too worried about the opinions of a few armchair fans!

    5. Marcin says:

      What a great way for a driver to side with the fans and let his team know that Team Orders are not acceptable!

  22. W Johnson says:

    Are you listening Mark?

    Vettel was not really sorry, despite all those apologys to the media after the race…so NOT genuine?

    Let the Redbull battle commence!

  23. Kenneth says:

    Seb mate this is what you sshould have said on the Sepang podium!
    Anyway,there is the real Seb for you,baby Schumi has come of age over the last three weeks,do any other Schumi fans feel some nostalgia?

    1. Dutch Johnny says:

      I never heard schumi talk like that tho. but thats maybe the difference between them that Michael was a bit more human.

      1. Jeff says:


        Now that’s a backhanded compliment if ever I heard one :-D

      2. Dutch johnny says:

        Haha you know it:)

  24. AussieWoZ says:

    Let’s hope this translates to an unforgettable on-track battle between the two in China.

    I give Mark the edge this weekend due to the fresh haircut!
    Worth at least a tenth or two …

    1. Bring Back Murray says:

      Alonso must be sitting back and having a deep wry smile at all this!

    2. McHarg123 says:


  25. bearforce1 says:

    This is what I wanted Vettel to say at the time.

    Webber has ignored team orders a couple of times before. After ignoring team orders Webber has stated publicly that he will always ignore team orders and always fight for the win.

    I feel that Webber would prefer another team and driver to win the WDC than Vettel. I mean watching Brazil last year I was dismayed at Webbers actions considering Vettels need to do well to win the WDC.

    Webber has had the best car the same as Vettels for the last four years and still whines and bitches about his lot in life. Geeeez even Lewis Hamilton desperately wanted to drive a RBR.

    Go Vettel….

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:

      Couldn’t have said it better bearforce1. Webber will go down in F1 history as a man having been given half a decade of GP winning and WDC challenging / winning machinery, designed by Newey, and is yet to get into double digit wins! I mean c’mon! What a waste. Not even a runner up WDC position. After all this RBR technical dominance, RBR have not even enjoyed a true 1-2 WDC overall result! Not even in 2011! 6th in last years WDC was appalling considering his equipment.

    2. Andrew H says:

      Sure Mark said those things, before RedBull introduced (final pitstop-track position/multi 21) team orders during pre-race briefings which both drivers agree upon.

  26. F*ckYeah says:

    I do not respect Webber for anything, he is an “aussie grit” driver, a number 2 all the way. He deliberately tried to run Seb off the road in Interlagos and cheat his own teammate out of a very well deserved WDC, and from a deadly enemy, who has himself got away with cheating a number of times.

    Hard to contain my contempt too, when people pointed out Webber’s own mealy mouthed hipocracy when you look at his own words from before on exactly this subject. That time he also lost, after ignoring team orders himself… He is just a weak looser with an unpleasant line in lies and excuses to cover his own inferiority. To self style himself as “gritty” is laughable…

    For his behaviour in Interlagos he should have been sacked, he was not just cheating his own team, us the fans, it was also a dangerous move.

    1. Mike J says:

      I don’t think i have read a more inaccurate comment driven by uncontrolled emotion for some time. Next!!!!

      1. Lol says:

        What he stated are facts. You are in denial if you think Webber did not igmore teamorders many times before and then boasted about it while being applauded by people like you.

        Now he is served his own dish and suddenly he is the poor guy that needs sympathy?

      2. Mike J says:

        ”He deliberately tried to run Seb off the road in Interlagos”’.
        That is not a fact.
        I personally did not applaud Webber after Silverstone however you must know be better. However i can digest the fact taht Silverstone was a different scenario and one again, unfortunately, brought on my RB management themselves.
        I am not sure how many times this must be said. In 2011, RB publicly stated that they have no team orders, they let their drivers race etc etc etc, they even spoke against Ferrari Germany incident. Then they impose an order ‘mid-race’. That is why Webber was ‘applauded’, as you say, after that race by many

    2. Scuderia McLaren says:


    3. Sebee says:

      As a racer, you obviously want to win.

      It must suck to be on a WCC/WDC team and not be the WDC 3 years in a running. He sees this kid, beat a man. But such is the reality for Webber.

      I think Webber has let his bitterness and “road rage” get the better of him on a number of occasions.

      Many fans here have spoken here that Hamilton has become a man by going out on his own. I think that Vettel has done is equaly significant. Webber has been a bully on a number of occassions. Vettel has been to soft, almost a push over on those occasions. He has maned up and pushed Webber back. All fair in my view. This crap Webber has been pulling can’t be a one way street. You want to dish it, you better be able to take it. Like a man.

      1. Gazza says:

        Seebee what a load of tosh.!!

        We can all agree the Vettel is generally faster but to say Webber has “Road Rage” is, to be frank, ridiculous.

        Its has ridiculous as apologising to the team and factory for disobeying a team order and then 2 weeks later saying you would do it again anyway. Unbelievable.!!

      2. Sebee says:

        You don’t think there are moments of insanity and wrecklessness between these two? Why do you think Horner practices his yoga breathing when these two get close to each other?

        Call it what you like, “road rage”, “rush of blood to the head”, some of the exchanges between these two have been absolutely in this category of thinking of the consequence after the incident.

        And personally, I don’t remember showing my middle finger to anyone while driving unless I’m raging. It was in my more youthful years where descretion and patience was limited.

      3. Sue says:

        I agree. Although I have been impressed with Seb’s self control at not fighting back at Mark’s bullying in the past, it’s good to see him without the PR ties.

        BTW James – 2nd paragraph, 3rd row should be passed not past.

  27. TJ says:

    One wonders whether it’s Vettel in charge at RB, certainly it’s someone other then Horner.

    One could question how Vettel has supported Webber to expect any ‘quid pro quo’ and for one who maintains he always respects team decisions… what went wrong on this occasion is it the exception that proves the lie.

    What we now have are apologies to all and sundry that weren’t worth the breath expended and an arrogance thats not particularly edifying. I’m coming to the belief that John Watson was right about making Vettel sit out this GP….

  28. Sidepot says:

    Sometimes I just think that this whole drama is a Red Bull PR dream – making it a talking point, giving it an ‘edgy’, controversial image. I wouldn’t be surprised if the appropriate staff have briefed Vettel and Webber what to say after the incident and they now have their scripts. Let the show go on!

  29. goferet says:

    Meanwhile Vettel’s overtake for the lead last time out was the first time (since 2010) that a driver other than Lewis had recorded the first on-track overtake for the lead in a season (this doesn’t include first lap maneuvers)

    Yes, so this means in 2010, 2011 and 201t, Lewis was always the first driver to overtake for the lead.

    1. Oscar says:

      How about Webber on Alonso last year in Silverstone (I think)?

      1. Oscar says:

        Sorry I didn’t fully understand the post at first…

  30. Haha says:

    Finally a successor worthy of Senna. Win at all cost, period.

    Go get them Vettel, I have changed from not caring for you to supporting you after these words.

    The sour grapes from the usual suspects makes it even sweeter.

    1. C Lin says:

      Winning takes care of everything!~ Tiger Woods

    2. Sossoliso says:

      Well, as long as the team let Webber race him every lap of every race going forward. Rubbing my hands in glee. There would be no more cruising to the finish line for the RB boys. Let us see what that does to the engine and gearbox allocation and DNFs. Roll on Sunday. If it gets tough for the other drivers come race day, I can see them giving Webber a by to go after Vettel. Excellent. Bernie E. must be loving this.

  31. Mr Squiggle says:

    oh dear. Something has very clearly shifted, either at RedBull, or in Seb’s mind.

    There doesn’t appear to be any middle-ground left.

    MW needs to play a straight bat for a couple of races

  32. F1Bobby says:

    Vettel – F1s new bad boy! lol
    I am not a Vettel fan but I love a good villain so his attitude gives the season added drama and enjoyment for me.

    1. Wade Parmino says:

      Maybe Bernie is paying Vettel to be a bastard and generate some drama. ;)

  33. Tim says:

    It’s been a while since we’ve had a Senna Prost potboiler of a season. Sit back and enjoy the show.

    1. growers says:

      It would indeed be a show if Webber had the speed of either Senna or Prost.

  34. Kutch says:

    I predict very little drama between them this year unless mark learns how to complete L1 without giving up a few positions. maybe when it rains

    1. Sossoliso says:

      The others might let him by to go after Vettel and break both cars in the process. No more cruising to the finish line for the RB boys.

  35. Ihsan says:

    Looks like Seb read all the news/blogs on how he should have came clean immediately, own up to it and not resort to ” Oh I did bad, I’m the black sheep now……” idiocy and decided to play the game. I start to see two tiny pea sized attachments (thank you D. Hobbs) starting to grow.

  36. Jon Wilde says:

    Vettel has been honest.

    His only mistake in Malaysia was not to express this sentiment from the beginning. He won a fan in me today.

  37. Dougel says:

    Vettel has plummeted in my estimation after reading these. It’s anyone but Vettel for me this year.

    1. Sebee says:

      You know what they say….

      “There is always next year!”

      1. Brad says:

        Sebee…LOL, your post have been very entertaining to read!!! Bloody brilliant, There’s always next year!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!

      2. Brad says:

        should be all your posts with this article

      3. Miha Bevc says:

        And a year after that :)

  38. Grant H says:

    at last some honesty!

  39. AuraF1 says:

    Vettel may not have noticed but he probably should be careful using the words ‘deserved’ since half the other drivers think he has done nothing to ‘deserve’ his wins.

    Someone in Red Bulls extensive PR outfit might want to point out that taking interview tips from the old Schumacher won’t help his cause. Schumacher found a lot more support in his second career mostly because he’d ditched some of the ‘I deserve to win at any cost’ self righteousness.

  40. Dren says:

    “He didn’t deserve it”

    That says it all. Vettel is certainly a good driver, but he is also used to having his way. He feels entitled. I expect future crashes between these two.

    1. growers says:

      Entitled? Just plain faster I would say.

  41. AJ says:

    Arrogant little so and so isn’t he. However I’m unsure whether this is actually his fault or just the outcome you get with egomaniacs like Helmut running the show.

    All that’s really left now to really follow is his champion big brothers footsteps is to deliberately crash out competitors when it suits him.

    Personally, I’d like to see Mark somehow find a way to wreck each race for him for the rest of the season.

    1. growers says:

      Bitter at all!? Mark seems like a decent bloke (although he does play to the media & fans a bit) but unless he can uncover some hitherto hidden talent, the only way he could wreck Seb’s race is by driving the wrong way round the circuit.

  42. Mike J says:

    James, you rightly point out that Vettel apologised to Webber several times after the Malaysia race. So this contradicts his ‘Webber didn’t deserve it’ comment now.
    So it was either a false apology then or after three weeks thinking about it, Vettel (and Marko) have decided to come out ‘swinging’ ….on a form of damage control by diverting the heat.
    Webber could easily say the same as Vettel “I never had support from his side……”
    It seems that Vettels word is starting to become very similar to that of Marko. Can’t really trust what they say cause weeks later, they come out and say something different or ‘i didn’t mean that’!!
    But being a 3WDC champion at such a young age may have something to do with this too. Senna and MSC were older and that is the big difference between them.
    If it wasn’t messy before it certainly is now.
    Stay tuned cause it ‘ain’t over yet.

  43. Seán Craddock says:

    “Webber, 36, was leading Vettel, 25, last time out in Sepang when the team ordered both drivers to hold position after the final pit stops”

    What exactly was the order? Because I didn’t hear it during the race. I thought it was a pre-agreed arrangement and not an order that was made during the race.

    Also, Vettel says he didn’t understand “the coded Multi 21 message” as James puts it. Why does it need to be coded?

    1. Bring Back Murray says:

      Because Horner doesn’t have the balls to say it directly?

    2. David Goss says:

      Good question. Perhaps a hangover from when team orders were still illegal.

      You’re right, they could just say “Sebastian, please hold station behind Mark”.

    3. gollino says:

      It needs to be coded, because otherwise it sounds bad.

    4. Mike J says:

      Watch the race edit on F1.com. The radio message from Rocky (Vettels engineer) to Vettel is quite clear ”seb..multi 21”. It is played out on the edit in full.

      It was not broadcast on TV. Listen and you can form your own opinion.

  44. Marc S says:

    Read this article:

    and the above artice from James.

    I watched a classic F1 race on SKY recently from Vettel’s first win in Monza in the Torro Rosso.

    That reminded me of how much I liked him at the start of his career.

    It’s amazing how things change and people can forget about where they came from. Not only that, he seems to have forgotten how much he owes Red Bull for starting his career in F1.

    Total lack of respect or perspective for his Team and Team mate. Mark may not have helped him in the past but the team certainly have, especially in 2010 post Turkey incident. In many other teams Webber would have been helped to win that title……

    1. Wade Parmino says:

      Webber should have been given priority in 2010 as early as Italy or Singapore. It made mathematical sense for the team to do this at the time. If the team had Vettel let Webber (running 2nd) through to win in Japan and Brazil, Webber would have won the 2010 championship comfortably. RBR would still have had the constructors championship as well.

      As it turned out Vettel did end up winning the championship, but only just. Had Alonso managed to make up 3 places in Abu Dhabi and finish 4th, he would have been champion. Red Bull would have missed out on the drivers title. They were very fortunate here. Letting it play out like this was very reckless on the part of Horner.

      From 2011 onwards it was all about Vettel, and Webber, who had been with them much longer and their best mathematical chance of the 2010 drivers championship was clearly labelled number 2.

      1. Hans says:

        Webber didn´t lose 2010 due to lack of support.
        In Korea Vettel had an engine failure, while Webber spinned out.
        Without the engine failure Vettel would already been on top before Abu Dhabi.
        In Abu Dhabi Webber just needed to win the race to secure the championship.
        Vettel signaled he would move over in interviews before the race.
        Vettel won the race.
        It was the only race i remember, where Webber unintentional was a big help for Vettel.
        After a bad qualiying he had to go for a dubious strategy to have any chances for winning the championchip.
        Vettel was lucky, that Ferrari copied that desperation move.

        On topic: I´m no fan of Vettels interviews after the race and now.
        Regarding his history with Webber (Turkey, Silverstone, Brazil, …) i understand that he doesn´t accept teamorders to stay behind Webber.
        But unfortunatly he still does not speak the truth. Appologize for something he would do again, just makes no sence.

        Webber on the other hand doesn´t appear to be any better.
        If i remember it was him who demanded teamorder in 2010 and didn´t obey very important teamorders afterwards.
        Just watch his interview before the Brazil Race for example.
        Now he acts, like he was taken totaly off guard when Vettel disobeyed a teamorder.
        When vettel leaved the pit in Malaysia, that was 2 rounds before he overtook Webber.
        Just an idiot wouldn´t see that he tries to overtake.
        If Mark had enough fuel i have no explanation why he didn´t switch the engine mod.
        The move on the start finish line showed, he didn´t want to make it easy for Vettel.
        Webber just likes to be the victim. He cries for teamorder in one moment, doesn´t obey teamorders in the next moment and cries again, if someone else doesn´t obey a teamorder

      2. Justin in Perth says:

        I often have thought the same thing. The 1-2 finishes in Japan and Brazil should have been reversed, given Webbers lead over Vettel in the points. As it turned out, RB and SV were very fortunate the final race went their way, because it should have really been Alonso winning the Championship.

    2. Lol says:

      Webber did everything he could to work against his own team and Vettel when it came to it. Way more than Vettel did against RBR or Webber. Why don’t you talk about Webber should know where he comes from and how he owes RBR?

      It all started in 2009 Brazil, Webber saying to the BBC: I would rather help Button win the title, than help Vettel.

      He should have been sacked right there and then. The only mistake RBR did was offer him a contract after 2009.

      1. Marc S says:

        I think your forgetting that along with DC he helped build the team from the old Jaguar rubbish.

        Don’t remember this 2009 Brazil incident but I think most people wanted Button to win that year? The sponorless underdeveloped car….

        If Webber did make this mistake in saying that, and not supporting his team (mate) I think RBR still made the correct decision in remembering the work he did previous to this and not basing it on one incident. I also don’t actually remember MW actually doing anything in the race to help Button win / effect Seb’s race?

        They both owe RBR – I think Webber showed respect to RBR in Malaysia by being the more mature person and not continuing the fight after the second corner (not running Seb off the track).

      2. Wade Parmino says:

        Dietrich Mateschitz clearly doesn’t think so.

    3. JB says:

      Webber believed that he was not supported in 2010 for the title bid. So he believed that he did not need to support Vettel 2012. Favor returned.

      Vettel believes that he was not supported at critical moments in 2012. So his pay back was the Malaysia GP 2013.

      And so the grudge match continues…

      OK, let’s move on.

      1. Marc S says:

        +1 How soon will Round 3 be though?!

  45. Monji says:

    These comments can end one’s career…

    Under a different team principle these things wouldn’t happen. I blame Horner entirely…

    1. Bring Back Murray says:

      “These comments can end one’s career…”

      Are you taking about Seb, Mark Webber, Horner, or all of them! :-)

      1. Monji says:

        I’ll go with Vettel :-)

    2. growers says:

      Some people always look for someone to blame. Others lead teams to unprecedented success.

      1. Monji says:

        It’s kind of hard not to win with such a dominant car for 3 years and counting arguably… Thanks to Adrian not Christian…

  46. Craig D says:

    Perhaps Seb is now convinced Mark will be ousted from the team at the end of this year that he can say what he wants now, and no need to play happy families?

    He’s certainly come out fighting.

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:

      Perhaps he signed a Ferrari contract? New found courage as he now has nothing to lose?

  47. Dai Dactic says:

    Anyone else get the feeling that all RB driver-statements are now being carefully composed and orchestrated behind the scenes by their PR department in order to gain maximum publicity for the company?

    Everyone loves a good story – the more controversial the better.
    I think RB is playing a self-beneficial game.

    1. Wade Parmino says:

      Sounds a bit absurd. It might benefit them with publicity but it will do them no favors regarding harmonious team function which will affect what happens on the track. Points = money.

      1. Dai Dactic says:

        They haven’t had harmonious ‘driver function’ for at least a year – hasn’t stopped them getting the WDC/WCC consecutive triple.

      2. Wade Parmino says:

        True, but it has never been as toxic as it is now.

    2. Dan says:

      Its making Seb look like a fool. Would you be happy with that?

      1. Dai Dactic says:

        He made the management look like fools – maybe they wanted the last laugh.

    3. KRB says:

      Yes, I get that sense. If it is, they’re doing a great job at it.

  48. Jon Wilde says:

    Interesting that Alonso felt the need to reiterate his commitment to Ferrari for the rest of his career around the same time as Vettel making these comments.

  49. MisterC64 says:

    What odds on Webber suffering a “mechanical” or sudden “loss of power” this weekend?? No matter what RBR say in public, Vettel will always have their support.

    1. Ambient Sheep says:

      Well well well, how prophetic were you?!

  50. Erik says:

    James, I’d love to hear Christian’s take on this.. He tried to gloss over this rift with all sorts of PR speak in the last few weeks, now Vettel has clearly undermined him again and demonstrated that it’s all a lie, nothing is well at all.

    Corner him somewhere and give us the team’s view on all this.

  51. Jenks says:

    So his initial comments and apology after the race were insincere.

    Good to know.

    1. Random 79 says:

      Already knew

  52. nusratolla says:

    This statement and the boldness vide which it was said is a clear indication of one thing and one thing only: Mark Webber’s exit from Redbull is imminent.

    Yeah, yeah there are many who thinks ‘this and that’ of Mark but what has he delivered? Vettel on the other hand has delivered three world titles with his first one being behind Alonso and Mark and winning it.

    I think we need straight shooters like Kimi, Lewis and Vettel rather than politically motivated Webbers and Alonsos.

    Ummmmmm’ speaking on Kimi….. A Redbull in 2014 ?

    1. Mack says:

      True Webber has not won a world championship but I wonder how many SVettel would have won if Webber hadn’t taken points away from SVettels championship contenders – that would be zero. I’d like to say “Words fail me” over Vettels comments but truely they don’t and the ones I’d like to use can’t be used here. As the saying goes “All press is good press”. This tit of tat ‘he did this v he did that’ is starting to be a bit of a farce. The people whom I really feel for here are the team members that sit back at the factory and do all the hard work to put both drivers on the track. The disrespect from Vettel is just unbelievable.

      1. bearforce1 says:

        Ummm no Webber has performed poorly. Vettel won 3 WDC. In the same car Webber has never even come second place in the WDC. Webber managed a pitiful sixth in one of those years in what people claim was a vastly faster/superior car.

      2. nusratolla says:

        May an era of heroes and not puppets dawn in F1. It leaves a bad taste the way Schumacher handled his teammates and the way Alonso handles Massa. May the dawn of the new F1 be of aggressive champions rather than corporate puppets.

    2. Wade Parmino says:

      Kimi, a straight shooter? What do you mean. If Kimi had been in Webber’s position in this scenario, he probably would have emulated James Hunt and delivered a right hook to Vettel’s chin.

  53. Justin bath says:

    Driver-10/10. Decent human 4/10 Team player 0/10.
    He has already won the world “tool” title for 2013.

  54. Wade Parmino says:

    It is ridiculous for him to say Webber didn’t deserve to win! How can anyone ever say that any driver doesn’t deserve to win. Unless a driver literally cheats his way to victory, he deserves to win, no matter what the situation.

    1. Hiten says:

      When he said he didnt deserve to win he meant his tyres and fuel were in poor condition in last stint of the race in comparison to Vettels and he would have had to do procession for 13 freaking laps!! That would had been a bigger joke.

  55. Joe says:

    Clear proof that “the driver” has become BIGGER than the team. Sadly, the people that look truly foolish are Dieter and Christian. They are coming across as wall flowers.

  56. Peter says:

    This story is big now, but Hamilton and Alonso all have had their share of similar nasty period of times and controversy.People will remember of this story from a distance, but I do not think it will effect Vettel`s future at all.

  57. Mike J says:

    I thought this may come out. Interesting to read the THURSDAY PRESS CONFERENCE and Webber comments on the last stops at Malaysia and why Vettel stopped first.

    Webber… “”Yeah, I asked for that lap, I wanted that lap but I couldn’t have that lap so because of the situation I think if I asked for that lap and got it and Lewis was not there I would have got that lap”.

    RB pitted Vettel first instead of Webber to keep him in front of Hamilton. Webber would normally have got first call. So Vettel got the ‘nod’ to keep him in front of Lewis which disadvantaged Webber. Fair enough but then he ‘backstabs’ his team mate after the team gave him the ‘bonus’.
    Webber should have got the ‘stop’ on the lap he wanted however he worked with the team.
    I had gained more support for Vettel after the Turkey incident however i have just lost it all in one day.

    1. James Allen says:

      We covered this in detail in the Race Strategy Report from Malaysia

      1. Mike J says:

        Thanks James for that. I did read it. However i suppose i was just (over)emphasising the point that Vettel was given the ‘favour’ of keeping a ‘safe second’ by the team and then goes about ignoring the multi21 call from the team. Hmmmm.
        He wouldn’t have won if not for that ‘favour’ by the team.
        (Your website is just so compelling at present. It feels like we are half way through the season with whats gone on! and its only race 3 – wow)

      2. James Allen says:

        Thanks! It’s full-on that’s for sure!

  58. Jannto says:

    The lesson is, if you say something, say what you really want to say. Not sure how important loosing some fans is to Vettel but I’m sure they’ll come back if he takes the fourth championship. And how many Mr. Nice Guys are on top of the drivers champion list anyway…

    1. Random 79 says:

      Damon Hill?

    2. Jeff says:

      Kimi Raikonnen
      Mika Hakkinen
      Jenson Button

    3. Jannto says:

      OK, true. I was referring to those on the top of the all time Championships (or, say more than 3). The point is you don’t loose much being ruthless although I like more the style of the above mentioned gents.

  59. Cos says:

    ‘It doesn’t matter how you win as long as you win’ and ‘ If I’m told to do something by my team I’m going to ignore it if it doesn’t suit me’….what great lessons the next generation will be learning from all this.

    Read quite a few comments on this and other sites of those fully supporting Vettel (of which they are entitled to). The man himself has said he is paying back Mark (of sorts)…but my question is:he did just out of spite or because of an underlying reason?

    To be honest I love what is going on as it will make this season even more exciting…can’t wait for one to take the other off (as long as they don’t get injured) and see the outcome…handbags at dawn perhaps?

  60. George Athas says:

    Payback, eh? In other words, Vettel knew exactly what he was doing and didn’t really misunderstand team orders, which we all knew anyway. But how inconsistent can his story get? Someone get the guy two pints of German lager so he can wash down both his feet.

  61. Dan says:

    What a great day for F1…now I actually want to see these two cars at the front. My how things can change!

  62. kfzmeister says:

    What a flip flopper. Reminds me of when Lewis first lied, then admitted his faux pas in Melbourne a few years back.
    Anyway, I still say Webber’s own fault for letting him get too close. Where was his racer’s instinct? Had he really forgotten about Turkey ’10 already?
    I’m hoping this blows open like Zo and Lewis ’07.
    They take points off each other and this time Alonso eaks out the championship in the end.
    Yeah, that would be a great year!

  63. Sri says:

    As I said in the other post, I hope Kimi does not retire soon, then I’ll have to look for a driver (who is competitive), but now Vettel (uncontroversial until now), Alonso and Hamilton have all some issues. I guess it is hard to be a clean non-political driver and be competitive like Kimi. He is a rare breed indeed.

  64. Rach says:

    I’ve got to say at least he is being honest. When he apologised everyone said he didn’t mean it and it was because he was put on the spot. Well now we know that with time to evaluate the situation he actually is happy at what he did because of how webber has acted in the past.

    Whilst I think he shouldn’t have broken the team orders you have to respect his honesty in that because of the way mark had acted towards him he felt he was therefore paying him back. Seb is honest where Alonso in comparison is more streetwise.

  65. Michael Prestia says:

    The last time two drivers within the same team were this disgruntled with one another… both lost out on a championship that should have been in the bag.

  66. Gareth says:

    These comments show a number of things.

    1) Horner is more or less a puppett, he has absolulty no control over Vettel. I can not even imagine Rosberg at Mercedes saying ” i cant promise it wont happen again”. The fact he hasnt even been punished means the man will get away with anything.

    2) There is no support for Webber in the team, he has more or less been relegated to number 2, the fact Horner did not even have the guts to punish Vettel shows this.

    3) Vettel is nothing more than an arrogant cry baby Justin Bieber clone.

    4) If Vettel now believes Webber will support his championship bid, he has no chance. Unlike Alonso who has been very complimentry to Massa, Vettel has blown it for himself. Expect more incidents like Turkey 2010.

  67. Dan says:

    There are champ’s and there are chump’s.

    This boy is the latter.

  68. Gul says:

    More drama than Eastenders! Love F1!

  69. mhilgtx says:

    Well Vettel has come out and served notice to Webber that his past behavior has not gone unnoticed.

    Webber has dug his grave and now in the twilight of his career will have to pay the price.

    In the beginning I liked Webber but his hypocritical whining about Vettel not following team orders and not telling the truth about his engine settings in Malaysia have done it in for me.

    Apparently it has for Seb as well. This is racing not some 9-5 government job where everything is fair. Let the strongest survive and Vettel is the strongest.

    I am guessing here but it sounds like in Vettel’s meting with RBR management he let them know yes they were in charge but he is not some mid range drive with zero options.

    That meeting went something like this:

    Mr. Horner I respect you but never ask me to hold up passing Webber in the middle of the race, while promising me I can race him at the end. You knew I had the extra set of option tires (tyres) for the end. Mr. Horner you know of Webber’s past behavior. Mr. Horner if you expect me to be here next year you need to get control of Webber and do it now, or I will consider our contract breached and pursue a new team next year.

    There is another article out there that goes over the Vettel and Weber’s lap times during the race. It is very obvious that Webber was pushing Vettel back in the Merc’s which promted RBR to tell Webber to speed up and then Vettel’s request to get Webber out of the way. Then at the end Webber’s lap times prove out that they were both on the same or similar engine settings. Vettel’s risk in Q2 gave him a new set of option tires and that was the difference in the race, not the engine maps Webber wants everyone to believe.

    While everyone is complaining about Vettel they never complain about Webber. Did Horner lose control at Malaysia? Absolutely not, he lost control at Silverstone in 2011 when Webber said he would not follow team orders. Horner lost more control in the desert, and then finally after Brazil when he didn’t sack Webber immediately after the race.

    I know if Webber worked for me, I would have fired him as before he got on the plane home from Brazil.

    1. luqa says:

      Very well put- I was about to post the same. After the Interlagos incident in 2012, I would’ve fired Webber on the spot for breech of contract and cause. The fact RBR didn’t deal with Webber at the time only empowered him to be bolder and even more hypocritical and childish.
      Given the 3 weeks of reflection, I totally understand Vettle’s revised position. The team refused to deal with issues in the past, so SV took things into his own hands- quite rightly. Grow a pair Webber- what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

      1. Glennb says:

        *Very well put- I was about to post the same. After the Interlagos incident in 2012, I would’ve fired Webber on the spot for breech of contract and cause.*

        Can you please post a link to Webbers 2012 contract? I would dearly love to see the clause that says he must not race Vettel. I was not aware it existed.
        Thanks in advance.

  70. Brace says:

    Horner certainly looks like an impotent figure in all of this. Since he’s obviously not in charge of the team, seems his only role is to nervously tap his foot in those tense moments during GP; must be why he’s sucha a great buddy with Bernie. It makes for awesome TV shots, and Bernie likes nothing more than some good, spicy TV. :)

  71. Methusalem says:

    The strange thing is that it’s Webber who’ll be fired next season, not arrogant Vettel. Stupidity combined with arrogance and a huge ego will get us a long way.

  72. DMyers says:

    Vettel needs a dictionary:


    The last three weeks have told us all that we need to know about S. Vettel. He is very much in the Schumacher mould: win at all costs, regardless of the consequences. The team are clearly not going to bother stopping him either. Regardless of his latest set of words about his relationship with the team, he clearly thinks he is bigger than the team.

    Christian Horner now finds himself in a very difficult situation, given Vettel has said he would do exactly the same thing again. Whose position is now untenable: his or his driver’s?

    1. Dan says:

      Personaly l doubt Horner cares. Its quite evident.

    2. KRB says:

      Somehow I get the feeling that this is all a staged show. Why would Vettel spill more gasoline on the fire so spectacularly, and then end it all off with “what did you expect to happen?”

      If it is staged, it’s brilliant.

  73. IgMi says:

    Oh, it is so easy to be arrogant when you are at the top of the game. I find that repulsive. On top of that using somebody’s else behavior to justify your own and projecting a false picture of yourself shows a significant loss of judgment and loose moral anchor. Those are not qualities of a Great Champion.

    Once the winning stops Vettel may be able to find some humility and sincerity for what it would be worth then.

    I just can’t believe that I’ve been putting him for so long next to Kimi as one those I can respect not only as a driver but as a person. I guess I am much easier to fool than I thought.

  74. unF1nnished business says:

    Just when you thought the smoke was settling! Now we have ourselves a season!

  75. Michael says:

    Someone really needs to tell Vettel to shut up. He keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper.
    Red Bull management needs a course in building a backbone in dealing with their employees.

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:

      Three consecutive years of drivers and constructors titles and soon to be a fourth year makes me think RBR management need a course in NOTHING.

      Four years of destroying and humiliating juggernaut teams like Ferrari, McLaren, Renault/Lotus & Williams suggests they could teach the establishment a thing or two.

      If it were not for Brawn’s huge half year success on the back of the DDD, Vettel and RBR would have 4 WDC and WCC respectively.

  76. Tornillo Amarillo says:

    Vettel did not overtake Webber fairly, because Mark had turned down the engine, it was not a skillful overtake and that’s the problem for his image as a “great” driver. But he’s still got 3 WDC.

    For sure Vettel is going to be globally remembered, not Mark. However, Mark has gained the respect of many fans, specially in Australia of course, there is also live after racing anyway.

    1. KRB says:

      I have to think that comments like these could hurt Vettel vis-a-vis his on-track contemporaries. Any close overtake requires a measure of submission from the overtakee. Up to now Vettel has benefitted from the goodwill from most of his competitors. But Webber is a well liked driver in the paddock, so other drivers might not be so willing to cede position as easily to Seb in future, a sort of “this one’s for Mark” gesture.

      As always, we will see.

  77. John says:

    Lets stop already with Vettel. He has driven the best car for the past few years yet only managed to beat Alonso by what three points !
    Lets stop feeding the red bull wagon and race !

    1. Brad says:

      Well, at least Alonso won’t have any excuses this year and he’s already made a massive mistake…

    2. Anop says:

      Spot on!!

      I personally feel a great driver wins races he shouldn’t win and there are only 3 drivers in the current field who can do that – Alonso, Hamilton and Kimi.

      This is my 9th season following F1 and I won’t call myself a pro in F1 knowledge but I think I have seen enough to understand the sport and judge the driving of a driver.

      Personally I think Vettel is the 4th best driver on the grid. Behind Fernando, Lewis and Kimi.

      1. Andrew (Another) says:

        Anop, you’re exactly right, your judgement is perfect!

      2. Rockie says:

        So Monza 08 was a race the Toro Rosso should have won if I may ask and which race should Hamilton not have won that he won or Alonso?

      3. Anop says:

        Yes I agree Sebastian win in Monza was a classic but that’s the only one. JB has won more races like that than Sebastian. The point being consistently doing it.

        The most recent example of what I meant is Lewis’s win in Austin last season. Sebastian should have won it and not Lewis.

        I have plenty of examples of Fernando’s win’s.
        Sepang, Valencia 2012 – Don’t think I need to write anything for these wins.

        Europe 2012 – Keeps a faster McLaren and Red Bull behind the whole race to win.

        Singapore 2010 – Shouldn’t have been on pole but took pole and won.

        Monza 2010 – Hunts down JB who lead 3/4th race to win.

        Japan 2008 – Fantastic middle stint to keep a faster Kubica behind.

        There is an easy way to see this point. Look at the wins/pole ratio of these drivers.

        Only Kimi and Fernando of the current drivers have that ratio greater than 1. That itself says a lot.

      4. goober says:

        So how did Vettel win Monza in a Torro Rosso (and plonk it on pole, from memory)?

  78. Babyonboard says:

    Time will tell but in SV “I” trust ;)
    The winner takes it all..
    Sadly but, MW will never get WDC.

    1. kmcc says:

      Because “the computer says no”. Who lead for most of 2010? Who was the first RB driver to win in 2012? It was not the venerated child. History may love a winner but it’s not to fond of MS, it will completely ignore SV. Turkey 2010 and the team reaction says spoilt brat wins, says nothing about the better competitor.

  79. Dan says:

    If this season ends up with Vettel winning evert race my tv will be switched to funniest home videos for entertainment. I cant bare to watch another Schumacher…

  80. Duffy says:

    we now know who wears the “pants” on this team eh!

  81. dazzle says:

    Oh! Dear, 3 back to back WDC have gone to his head…

  82. Craig Lemoine says:

    So SB is now number one driver and team manager at RBR…and CH is what? No wonder it’s call the Fi Circus.

  83. ice cream is faster than you says:

    Webber didnt deserve the win. How right ! Webber was either speculating on a safety car or rain (like Hamilton) or was simply using too much fuel in the race, knowing team orders would protect him later. Vettel was faster because he wasnt short on fuel and also saved a set of options in Q2 for his last stint in the race.

    It would have been a hollow victory for Webber with Vettel all over him for the last 10 laps but not allowed to overtake ! I wonder how Webber had reacted on the podium. Would he be ashamed like Hamilton ? Of course he wouldnt !

    This whole story illustrates perfectly that Vettel, just like Schumacher at Ferrari is a thinking, integral part of his teams success and not just some servant taking one sided orders in his direction. Its funny that this isnt appreciated more nowadays in the english speaking parts of the world, still used to Germans obeying orders without questioning them ??? Red Bull would be best advised to part with Webber at the end of the season, he can not deliver a WDC anyway and brings the team into disrepute with his accusations of foul play. Get Raikkonen or Hulkenberg in there and get on with the racing if Vergne isnt ready. Ricciardo with his excuses is just a mini Webber and will cause trouble without delivering much in the future.

    1. bearforce1 says:

      Yeah, Webber can’t even get 2nd in the wdc in the best car, the same car that Vettel drives. Webber can only get sixth in the best car.

  84. olivier says:

    … ah, NOW we’re speaking. Shame he didn’t say it right after the race.

    We’re set for a stellar season. Perhaps Webber’s swansong year. Let’s hope he leaves F1 with a few epic Vettel battles under his belt. Bring on China!!! And show us that Aussie grit, old man!! What you did in Spa (2011) was awesome!

  85. F12012 says:

    At least Seb is honest, plus they did come out side by side at the last stop, hard for any racer just to lift off and cruise to second place

    It’s obvious vettel has had this anger built up over the winter regarding brazil, webber did give him very little space at the start of that race, seb lifted and then ended up racing in the mid field and getting hit by Senna, which was a miracle the car survived, for vettel this is pay back

    1. Random 79 says:

      At least Seb is honest now; it should have been three weeks ago.

      Oh, and he wasn’t hit by Senna; he hit Senna.

      There’s a difference.

  86. Stone the crows says:

    Dear Sebastian,
    The first step in getting out of a hole is to stop digging.

    Your bemused fans.

  87. Dougel says:

    Vettel’s attitude is disappointing. I was a fan if his until this blew up. It a marks a return to the dark days of the late 80s and early 90s when drivers had no respect for each other, a win at all costs mentality and as many championships were settled by collisions as on the track. This generation of drivers, on the whole, seem to display a good amount of respect for each when battling it out. I hope the other drivers don’t go down the same path as Vettel has chosen.

  88. Richard says:

    “Horner is in charge at Red Bull” Vettel himself said to the BBC, then he says “he might disobey orders again” right. So who’s in charge at Red Bull if I may ask

    1. Random 79 says:

      It’s very simple:

      Dietrich owns Red Bull: He’s in charge.
      Horner runs the team: He’s in charge.
      Marko runs his mouth: He’s in charge.
      Vettel and Webber drive the cars and ignore Horner: They’re not in charge :)

  89. Kurtis says:

    And Horner says that Webber would have done the exact same thing. Who exactly is running this team and why are the drivers apparently disrespecting the boss and team decisions?
    Say what you will about Schumacher and others in the past but they wouldn’t openly disrespect the team and ignore their boss.

  90. Joe B says:

    Anyway, just reading these comments makes me wonder what exactly Webber did in Interlagos 2012? I wathced the race very closely, and nothing untoward happened other than a crowded start and a nervy Vettel going backwards before clipping Senna.

    After that I saw Webber being pitted when Vettel approached him and I though that was it. What drama did I miss?

    1. Random 79 says:

      Webber fought him a little at the start, but let him through later.

      People make of that what they will.

      1. Glennb says:

        Very eloquently put mate.
        That’s exactly how I saw it too Random.

  91. Aficion says:

    It’s funny…. I always thought that drivers were reigned in pretty tightly as per their comments. They have handlers to tell them exactly what to say and what not to. What happened here?!! I’m sure Red Bull can’t be thrilled by their employee completely sabotaging his own image….

  92. Mebz says:

    Watching the interviews after Malaysia, to me it looked like vettel was genuinely sorry, after contemplation he isn’t and he’s been honest. I’ve been in situations where straight after I’ve thought crap, I shouldn’t have done that but after thought differently.

    The way I read what he’s said is in the heat of the moment he’s not sure what he would do if the same scenario arose, again honesty.

    On a side note, last year after vettel won the championship, he had a dig at those trying to use underhand tactics, everyone thought he was referring to alonso. Anyone else think he was referring to webber now?

    And lastly Adrian newy is overrated or mark webber is a dud. Mark is clearly not a dud, his days at minardi and jaguar (qualifying on front row) prove that. The car is good but vettel is making the difference!

    Vettel is a legend and a great role model.


    1. Gazza says:

      Adrian Newey Overrated.!

      He has won more Constructors’ Championships than any other designer and is the only designer to have won Constructors’ Championships with three different Formula One teams.

      Just how would he go up in your estimation.?

      1. Mebz says:

        Anyone who thinks he’s a one man band is delusional.

        He good, no denying that. How long has he been in F1? How many teams has he worked for? Now compare that to his counterparts like Rory Byrne.

        For all his titles, would it be fair to say he’s had world class drivers in the car making the difference?

  93. Rufus says:

    I can’t prove it but I am quite suspicious that Vettel’s apology following the race in Malaysia was forced.
    As I commented once before Vettel seemed quite happy when he crossed the line but suddenly regretted winning the race when he had got out of the car.I think now after a forced apology he has revealed his true feelings.
    It reminds me of 1989 when Senna Ron Dennis forced Senna to apologize to Prost after Imola. Like Senna did he has now revealed what he really thinks. I can now see the potential that 2013 at Red Bull could be similar to the situation at Mclaren in 1989.

    It is hard to know what Michael Schumacher really thought about being gifted the win at Austria in 2002. Assuming that his initial reaction of being happy to win was how he truly felt it would seem that Schumacher was far more discreet than Vettel is.
    In terms of morality it is best to tell the truth which Vettel has now done. However,in terms of team stability and the potential for future team co-operation Vettel’s confession that he would do the same again won’t serve the team well. If he had stayed quiet there would have at least been an illusion of stability.

  94. Nic Maennling says:

    Whoa there young fella ! You are now running the team and making judgements on their behalf ? Vettel needs to be reigned in and shown just who is running the team. One of the team principles is a weakling and it’s not the draughting board designer. Somebody please do something !

  95. dufus says:

    Simply, Webber now needs to drive with his elbows out. He is fast enough but he needs to be very, very aggressive and consistent now on track, that’s all. The rest of all this is just stuff no-one will remember long term.

    1. Random 79 says:

      First part: Right.
      Second part: Wrong, even if it’s only a few that remember :)

    2. bearforce1 says:

      No Webber is not fast enough. Webber in the fastest car the same car that won the WDC and Webber could only manage to get 6th in the WDC. So over an entire year in the best car he showed what he could get on average and that is sixth in the WDC.

      Every race start Webber somehow manages to put the car into reverse.

      1. Random 79 says:

        Maybe you missed Malaysia, 2013…

  96. Kilroy says:

    After reading a majority of the posts… please help me understand why SV is getting all this grief from all this. My opinion of his behavior is irrelevant to his world and therefore not important. What we must review the facts of these two F1drivers:
    SV – multi world champion
    Web – I believe he won a race (?)
    Futhermore to the facts:
    Web has always tried to impress that he is a “top driver” but consistantly gets out-driven by the top and mid level drivers. He drives with his emotions on his sleeve but acts towards his agrivation making him unreliable and untrustworthy because we have no clue where he will commit his next angst. Almost like he is owed… whatever. He needs to study and act as RB did with Schummy. With that he will have a ride till end of year and maybe next year when he and Massa could be future team mates.

    1. David Ryan says:

      I think it’s the presumption of entitlement which comes across in Vettel’s comments – by claiming Webber “didn’t deserve” the win, for example, it gives the impression that Vettel somehow did deserve it more. There’s nothing in what happened up to that point to suggest any objective basis for that, so it does come across as somewhat feeling as if the race win was his due. Race wins and championships are fought for, not part of the contract, and I think that’s why it gets people’s backs up. It may be irrelevant insofar as who ultimately wins this year’s title, but how you win is as important as what you win as far as the history of the sport is concerned. If Vettel wants to convince people he deserves to be considered one of the greats, this isn’t really the way to do it.

      1. James Allen says:

        It’s an interesting point – when you have won 3 WDC is it still entitlement in the sense of expecting things to be done for you, or entitlement as in, expecting to win again?

      2. Glennb says:

        Nice post David.
        I guess I’m annoyed by Vettel claiming that Webber didn’t deserve to win. Who is Vettel (or anyone else) to decide who deserves to win and who doesn’t? Does the fact that he has been so successful give him the right? It’s as if he’s saying that Webber hadn’t earned the right. The *team* obviously thought Webber deserved to win. Mercedes thought that Hamilton deserved a podium too.

    2. Random 79 says:

      ‘Please help me understand why SV is getting all this grief from all this’


      Vettel overtook his team mate against team orders not to. There’s no problems there, aside from any internal issues with the team and that’s the team’s problem to sort out (or not).

      The problem – and the reason he’s getting so much grief – is that immediately after the race he apologised and said he didn’t mean to disobey the orders (he didn’t understand) and that he shouldn’t have done it.

      This was patently a lie, which he has virtually come out and admitted.

      More than this, he now says that he would do the same thing again, which is a complete u-turn from three weeks ago and negates everything that he has previously said.

      Add to this, he has also hinted that overtaking Webber against orders was payback for Webber disobeying orders and not supporting him in the past. It’s fair to say that Webber has been guilty of this, but to say it like this just comes off as being petty.

      As I said, his mistake was not in overtaking Webber – he is paid to win (he got that part right) – but it’s in the way he has handled the whole situation afterwards.

      Again, as I have said many times now, he would have been much better off if he had just overtaken Webber, got the win, jumped out of the car and said ‘I’m a champion. I’m here to win. Deal with it.’

      He would have still caught some flak, but not nearly as much.

      p.s. You seemed a little uncertain about whether or not Webber has won a race. He’s won nine…and counting :)

  97. Craig Baker says:

    You would have to say that ‘Multi 12 / Multi 21′ was born so as to keep the two drivers apart in the closing laps.

    It has been used quite effectively in the past few years to keep Webber from attacking Vettel in the latter stages of a race. Webber tends to suffer in the earlier stages of a race in comparison.

    All Vettel has achieved in doing is opening the door for Webber to now attack at any point in a race. The extra 7 points he gained in the last race might be seen as fools gold later in the season.

  98. A.Green says:

    F1 does create little monsters…very sad Vettel has turned out to be a boy with no character honor and self respect.

  99. CF says:

    My respect for Vettel as an F1 driver grew a little because of this.

    Now I do hope all this blows up and neither RB or Vettel win the championship this year.

  100. GH says:

    It’s horrifically naive to think that it’s ever been a level playing field within the current Red Bull driver line up.

    Red Bull don’t want Webber to win. His role has always been secondary, to draw in points for the Contstructor’s title and to support “The Pig”.

    Vettel is;

    1. A German driving for what is, at essence, a German team.

    2. Ten fold more valuable to the Red Bull brand than Webber.

    Webber has struggled to find a title sponsor in Australia (Canberra Milk, anyone?), let alone become the main ambassador for one of the most powerful brands in the world.

    Regardless of who is the more complete racer, the powers that be will never allow us to truly know.

    All eyes on China, I know what corner I’ll be sitting in. Do you?

  101. Timmay says:

    Whenever someOne beats him – he sulks. Whenever his team mate is ahead of him – he cries on the radio. Whenever he gets pole or wins – he squeals like a little girl and points his silly finger in the air. And he gives ridiculous interviews like this one…

    He is a child, and I dont respect him yet. Infact less each year. Until Sebastian beats a team mate of decent quality in a straight fight he is not a top driver in my book.

    Webbers team mates were all journeymen – Coulthard, Rosberg in his rookie season, Heidfeld…. He is a nobody. Vettel has just been driving the best car in decades.

  102. John says:

    Vettel has been advised by Schumacher, or someone like him, how to play mind games. You have to feel sorry for Mark. The reason why Mark behaved in certain manner in the past is most likely because Vettel has got RB behind him. I don’t remember Mark being in a war with any other team mate in the past.

  103. JohnBt says:

    This debacle is now truly overblown. But I like it very much when Vettel says he’ll do it again. Well at least Vettel is brave to say he’ll do it again as when the helmet is on and no one can see his face he’ll be a beast! That I like very much.

    Mind you I support Webber and he too better break team orders if needed. I blame Marko and hold him responsible for the deep seeded problems between Vettel and Webber.

    Massa had better follow suit but in Ferrari one must constantly remember it’s the team. Enzo is still spiritually well and alive.

  104. Johnston says:

    I hope Vettel gets what he asked for in Brazil if it’s a WDC winning race!

  105. Samir says:

    Few points:
    1. It’s obvious that Vettel does not regret his actions from Malaysia. His apology rings hollow since he admits he would do the same again

    2. Equally certain is that Webber will leave Red Bull at the end of this season if Vettel still drives there. I forget if he has already extended his contract. In his mind, the episode probably illuminates what Vettel can get away with

    3. Red Bull will not punish its best bet for the WDC. Punishing him will mean disadvantaging him and also the team, and could cause a whole lot of other complications (both drivers leaving at the end of the year), and there’s no guarantee that sanctions will teach him a lesson (ask Schumacher)

    4. Vettel knows this too so will continue to do as he pleases. Horner and co. need to abolish team orders to avoid being further embarrassed, since now both drivers are likely to do as they please. We could see a repeat of Turkey 2010.

    5. We all love this drama! Bring it on!

  106. Mike J says:

    Vettel speaks about not having support from Webbers side of the garage.
    Thats strange isn’t it.
    When was the last time anyone saw Helmet Marko on Webbers side of the garage, even speaking to Webber or even clapping if Webber won anything.
    This i think lays one of the biggest issues. The camp has always been divided and Marko is the reason. Webber cannot ever have 100 % support of the team as long as Marko is there.

  107. Dave B says:

    Can we add a little more historical context here please…
    Do we recall when Vettel ran up the back of Webber in Japan? I suspect that Webber and Vettel havent seen eye to eye since then…

    1. Random 79 says:

      Webber had a few four letter words to say that day, but when Vettel went on to win in Monza in the STR the following year I think Webber had a bit of respect for him.

      I think the point where their relationship started to go south was after Turkey in 2010.

      1. Glennb says:

        *I think the point where their relationship started to go south was after Turkey in 2010.*

        Hmmmm, yeah. That probably didn’t help ;)

  108. Zed says:

    James, (or anyone else), just a question and apologies if it’s been raised above:

    Why can’t the team directly control the engine mapping of the car from the pits to ensure both drivers are following the correct fuel settings?

    Whilst I understand this would not prevent RBR from stopping SV from overtaking, they could throttle him back as discipline.

    I just don’t understand this kid – he is an employee of RBR – all they need to do is put it in his contract that he must obey team orders then terminate if he disobeys.. there’s a lot of very good drivers out there who could put that RB9 around the track.

    Seriously, I don’t expect Horner or Marko to budge but Mateschitz must be fuming – I wouldn’t be suprised if Vettel didn’t last out the season at the rate he’s going.. anyway my question above if anyone has the knowledge/time.

    Thanks very much – love the site James and the quality of the contributions. Bravo.

    1. James Allen says:

      To answer your question at the top, it’s not allowed in the rules to change the car from the pits via telemetry

      1. Zed says:

        Thanks – well that gives F1 management’s perspective on what should happen: driver’s should decide, not teams, which is interesting.

        Just talking with others it seems Vettlel’s ego is just out of control now, but the issue for RB is that they’ve spent millions building him up and pampering him that he now thinks of himself as a golden child, impervious to any direction, much like Hamilton until his current ‘waking up’ phase. Vettel might be two years away from this stage, by which time Webber will be watching F1 sitting on the couch with his dogs, rolling is eyes as Vettel says he’s ‘matured now’, and how he ‘realizes how lucky he was’..

  109. KRB says:

    Whoa … just shut up about it. Normally Seb is a very good interviewer, knows how to give decent answers without really giving anything away. But man, I think he would’ve done better just taking a crap in Mark’s seat, rather than saying what he said.

  110. Zed says:

    Also, James, could you please provide your opinion on Vettel and his actions and what you think it reflects about him both as a Formula 1 driver and an individual? (I’m sure many would like to know).

    1. James Allen says:

      I’m surprised by his comments yesterday, he went further than he needed to in terms of ‘news management’, but it shows the depth of feeling and it shows that he feels he’s in a very strong position within the team. It’s clear that there is no trust between him and Webber.

      He put himself ahead of the team in Malaysia and, although his instinct was to apologise after the race, he’s now toughing it out.

      It’s made him a much more interesting and extreme character, which is good news for the wider appeal of the sport

      He speaks to Bernie quite a lot, so I’d be interested to know whether Bernie suggested how he should play it this weekend.

      1. Johnston says:

        That i don’t like, he is Bernie’s little protected student.

      2. Zed says:

        He’s certainly extreme, but my question was loaded in that I’m interested in whether he has any integrity left?

        1. disobeys team orders
        2. says he ‘f*cked up’
        3. apologies to the factory
        4. says he doesn’t care and will do it again
        5. ?

        What’s he doing? He seems massively compromised now imho.

  111. geo_free says:

    Hi James,

    In your previous article on the Malaysian GP strategy calls you wrote “The race turned on a very odd decision: the team’s decision to pit Vettel early on lap five to change onto the new medium tyres was very much out of character.”

    I direct you to the latest comments from Seb:

    Q. “Going back to earlier in the race, was the decision to change to slicks at the first stop your call, or was it made by the team?”

    SV: “It was my call. I came on the radio at the beginning of the lap saying that it looks pretty dry. At the end of the lap I felt it was the point of crossover and I thought I would come in and take the risk, because I thought it was dry enough.”

    The moral of the story is that Seb was behind Mark due to his own decision.

    …but of course, it is now very difficult to judge when Seb is telling the truth ;)

  112. Christian Stewart says:

    Who would have thought that Vettel would become the new Pironi of the sport?

    A their worst, Prost, Senna and Schumacher never reached such duplicitous depths.

  113. george says:

    Germans are not bad people , just focused on winning and being better. I still think Mark now has the edge mentally and may now have a chance to beat the contradicting man .

  114. Dan says:

    Easy way to fix this. One car per team. Split it down the middle.

  115. Siobhan says:

    Bit of a clarification on the “Mark didn’t deserve it” comment. Q&A with Vettel:

    Q: Had you understood the team order properly, would you have obeyed it?
    SV: I am not sure if I can give you a perfect answer on that question. Of course there would have been a conflict, as I am the type of person that respects the team’s decisions, but probably I would have thought that Mark wouldn’t have deserved it at that time.

    He was saying had he got the call to give the place back, he would have thought it was undeserving. This is on the back of him saying he had faster during the race. So it seems Vettel thought he did deserve to be ahead and not Mark when order was given.

    1. NutBallRacer says:

      Again, all this as well as several other problems would be solved if we got radio communications out of the cars and helmets and restricted communication during a race or practice or qualifying or any time, to what teams can put on a 1m x 1m board and dangle over the track wall. Let drivers be drivers. Let drivers figure out what’s going on and control their driving. Teams can strategize and plan and prioritize all they want before contracting drivers, before starting seasons before races — any time. But once cars are on the track, leave the drivers alone.

  116. Rafael says:

    A misguided move by Sebastian. He just re-ignited a larger fury on what was supposedly yesterday’s news. Vettel should have just stayed quiet and let the subject die down. People would have (probably) eventually come to their senses and moved on.

    I still can’t take it against Seb for “stealing” the win — winners do what they have to to win. But clearly these comments are the words of a spoiled petulant boy. I personally think, that Seb needs to go through that one (or two) horrid season wherein he will not come out the winner in order to test and build his character (similar to what Schumacher experienced in ’97, Alonso in ’07 and Hamilton in ’09). Because from the looks of it, everything came good for Sebastian too soon that he spits the dummy out at the slightest hint of trouble.

  117. Eric Weinraub says:

    I think you can kiss that Ferrari contract goodbye. If Vettel had both done what he did and said what he said to the press, Ferrari would sack him in a heartbeat. Fair to say you can’t name another top team that would put up with this crap.

  118. primi says:

    “I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing. ”

    “Has he learned from it? I’m sure he has. Would he do it again? I think he’d think twice but I think as he explained yesterday there is an awful of history between those drivers. ”

    Come again?

  119. Dee says:

    Vettel is just a spoilt brat – a child in my view. He does not have a handle on his emotions, how to act and behave and I am seriously starting to question his ethics and moral responsibilities.

    I understand that winning is a good instinct to have, especially in motor sport. But winning is not everything, you may look good on paper and statistics but you become a legend because of your driving skills and more importantly for the person that you are.

    Senna was an awesome driver and an even better person. He was amazing on track but a gem off track. Sure there issues between Senna and Prost but there was always respect and no sense of entitlement. Schumacher for all his iciness, is an awesome racer and he proved 7 times with different teams, but even then he was always respectful and he did respect team orders even though he was the favourite.

    Vettel needs to remember that being a better person is what will define his legacy and such childish behaviours will not get him very far. His motto is ask for forgiveness and not permission. But if the apology is fake and he will do it all over again, what’s the use. He is allowed to get away with it and that’s why he does it….

  120. John M says:

    I’ve got one more comment that I will make on this issue and that is….. If they were really racing would Webber have left the door open on turn 3….. or more to the point, now that they will really be racing in the future would he close the door on Seb and run him off the track like ever other top driver would….. and at the end of the day it would be SV’s fault for putting his nose in a hole that was never there……?

  121. Phil says:

    I recently had the honour of meeting Chrissie Pellingham world ironman champion. She talked about the “rawness” of sport and how important that is. Sadly now, sport is about win at all cost. Probably down to cash. Sad isn’t it?

    Wellington on the other had reminds me of snooker players who call a foul on themselves, a far cry from footballers “simulating” and pointless team order spats in F1. The thing that brought it home to me most was this. Wellington said she shared her training, nutrition and hydration plans with her competitors. Not just her team mates but ALL the top competitors. Why? Surely that’s suicidal to give away such trade secrets. Not if you want to be THE best, something you can only be by beating everyone else when they are at the top of their game.

    I’d prefer a sport without team orders but that isn’t going to happen. Vettel’s disrespect of direct instructions and his woeful handling of the fallout is shocking to me. What a hateful little man. World champion? Not in my eyes

  122. Joe B says:

    I’m proud to be both British and a Formula One fan, and as much as I supported Hill as a kid I acknowledged even then that Schumacher was the better driver – his talent was truly exceptional. I certainly wasn’t in the minority in my peer group, either.

    In all honesty Vettel’s performances and the way he crumbles under pressure are reasons enough for me to question his success. I have no particular fondness for Webber either; and my opinions of both (and the whole grid) are based solely on performance.


    1. Joe B says:

      Thanks. I know you all do an amazing job moderating the site, and it seems to have gotten (rightfully) more popular over the last year or so, which makes your job even harder. I appreciate the edit above.

  123. Prabhatram says:

    Hello Joe B! That was a very good reply and an evenhanded one, too. I don’t mind my last post being removed – it deserved to be removed! I’m glad to hear that the posters here think before they post, rather than act like spoiled and emotionally handicapped fans who only think in black and white. Go to the BBC F1 forums and you’ll know what I’m talking about. Still, I may be wrong about it, and I accept that possibility. This forum sounds mature and intelligible in “stark” contrast; I like it.

    To be honest, I don’t compare F1 drivers. They are all gifted, capable of adapting to different situations, delivering results and carrying themselves very professionally to the best of their ability. Like all humans, they can be vulnerable and volatile at times. They, however, deal with that also to the best of their ability. However, together, they make the sport interesting to watch.

    I have nothing against Webber, Button, Whitmarsh, and the good British and Australian people if I allow myself to be fully honest.

    I believe one has to read/view what every driver says in their own words fully to appreciate their positions. Media headlines and modes of reporting intentionally or unintentionally highlight and disregard some aspects of the story, leaving viewers to digest the same as axioms.

    On the subject of Vettel Vs Webber, I believe RedBull racing is doing an unhealthy job of managing their drivers. Whoever is advising Vettel is doing a bad job also. He’s too young to be making any statements without proper mentor-ship that looks to find the best compromise between his interests and that of the team. RedBull Racing can’t keep luring Webber for his services (while keeping the door open for him to go for a WDC) and back-stabbing him when it matters. I don’t know exactly what his contracts allow him to do, but his publicly surfing disappointments suggests that he’s not happy.

    With regards to the Malaysian race, this is my view. RedBull Racing was aware that Vettel was working on a strategy (saving 3 sets of prime tires), which he thought would help him towards the end of the race. It was a smart move. asking Vettel to then hold station sounds stupid if we ignore everything else.

    By asking Webber to turn his engine down and assuring him (either explicitly or implicitly) that Vettel would do the same, and then have Vettel doing the opposite is RedBull Racing backstabbing Webber. Vettel definitely played a selfish game here. Vettel the racer took to instinct; Vettel the employee capitalized on the bosses’ favoritism towards him.

    3 weeks later, RedBull Racing, intentionally or unintentionally, under-fueled Webber on Q2. If Webber is unhappy about it, I don’t blame him.

    So, who’s the villian and the hero here? Irrelevant! This is real life with specters of 0 to 255 shades of gray, and then some. RedBull Racing needs to have a clear boss who deals with drivers. You can’t have Marco or Deimtrich (sorry for the spelling) circumventing Horner (If he’s the boss). If Horner’s the boss, he needs to be clear and assertive, and if drivers don’t pay heed, there should be consequences for the driver. Given Vettel’s recent interview, it looks like Vettel has not only been not warned, but has made his intentions clear of repeating the same actions if needed. Is Vettel a villain for doing so? Maybe. Maybe, he’s just playing his cards right, since the casino owners are ok with it. Is it good for Vettel? Doesn’t sound right! Is it good for F1. Time will tell.

    Sorry for the long post. Thanks!

  124. Prabhatram says:

    Vettel’s Malaysian move could be read as he falling victim to pressure. Why would I say this? Well, this year, the tires are bigger uncertainties than last year. I think we can expect lots of grand prix winners this year like last year. That means regardless of how good you are or your car, the championship won’t be easy. Then, Vettel decides that 25 is better than 18, wheres alonso states that he has no regrets over not pitting when he had a broken wing. He may have regrets, actually, but he’s hidden them, while at the same time, coming across as diplomatic and professional. Vettel’s diplomacy and professionalism failed him in Malaysia. These two traits may well count a great deal in this year’s championship. Vettel learning to be a bad boy will probably not get him more grand prix wins, though he might do well in selling more of those wing sporting, one-of-a-kind, pseudo individualistic can called Red Bull.

  125. Andrew says:

    This is funny – people talk Vettel down and you’re guaranteed a reply from Sebee to argue your point. I’ll try again. Vettel is a brat who never had to race the hard way due to his relationship with Red Bull. No Minardi or crap team drive for him. Straight into Tora Rosso when they were a mid table team. I hope he gets even half the mechanical failures Webber has had in the last few years.

  126. PJ says:

    What I would love for someone to work out is what the results would have been if you factor in that Mark is 10Kg heavier than Seb which equates to roughly 0.3 secs a lap. If you were able to adjust all of thier results over the past 5 years what would be the effect.

    1. James Allen says:

      It’s not as simple as that

      The cars weighed the same with drivers in, so no advantage there

      But Vettel’s car had the extra 10kg placed as ballast in the floor which gave a fractional advantage – less that 1/10th of a sec


Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Top Tags
SEARCH Scuderia Ferrari
JA ON F1 In association with...
Download the chequered flag podcast today
Download the chequered flag podcast today
Multi award winning Formula One photographer
Multi award winning Formula One photographer