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Abu Dhabi Grand Prix
Sebastian Vettel Disobeys Red Bull Team Orders To Take Malaysia Win
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Posted By: Matt Meadows  |  24 Mar 2013   |  1:46 pm GMT  |  1,138 comments

Sebastian Vettel has won a tense Malaysian Grand Prix after edging out Red Bull team mate Mark Webber with a close move late in the race, after Webber had been told to turn down his engine and drive to the finish.

As Vettel attacked on lap 46 of 56, the pair almost collided several times, but the German squeezed through for the win.

Vettel apologised to Webber, but the Australian did not say that he accepted it, instead commenting that Red Bull management “protects” Vettel. Team boss Christian Horner meanwhile confirmed that Vettel had “taken things into his own hands” and disobeyed orders.

It was Vettel’s 27th career win, equalling Sir Jackie Stewart, but it was not one to celebrate as Vettel acknowledged,

“I did a big mistake today,” he said. “I think we should have stayed in the positions that we were. I didn’t ignore it on purpose but I messed up in that situation and obviously took the lead which, I can see now he’s upset, but yeah, I want to be honest at least and stick to the truth and apologise.”

But on a day when likely main title rival Fernando Alonso scored no points after crashing out on the second lap, Vettel knew that with the difference between first and second place at seven points, he did not want to gift them to Alonso.


The spat overshadowed all other stories from the day, including Lewis Hamilton taking his first podium for Mercedes in third place. Here too there was some controversy as Nico Rosberg was told not to pass Hamilton in the closing stages as the Englishman struggled with fuel consumption. Unlike Vettel, Rosberg obeyed.

After a pre-race downpour the Grand Prix begun in intermediate conditions and looked from the out-set to be a strategically dominated race that would be dictated by the cross over point to dry tyres. And this came to fruition when Vettel pitted a lap too early and handed the race lead to a fast starting Webber.

The Australian had made a contrasting start to last weekend and found himself in second position by the second lap. This was helped by the damaged Ferrari of Fernando Alonso that tagged Vettel in to turn 1 and subsequently had his front-wing fold underneath him at the same point on the following lap. That put the Spaniard out of the race and dented his Championship hopes at an early stage.

On a drying track, Vettel pitted for slick tyres too early. By staying out Webber jumped him and led from Vettel after the first set of pit stops they were joined for the battle of the race lead by the Mercedes pairing of Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. And it remained in that order until the final ten laps as Vettel and Webber came very close to the pit wall, with Vettel coming out on top. It is the 27th race win of his career, moving him in to the World Championship lead, and putting him on a par with Sir Jackie Stewart.

In an eventful race that harked back to the Summer of 2010, Vettel asked his Red Bull team to move Webber out of the way as he was “too slow” and there was a very cold atmosphere between the Red Bull drivers as they took to the podium. It is sure to be a result that will divide opinion, with some saying that this is the kind of determination you need to be a multiple World Champion and be ranked amongst the greats.

After being within a couple of seconds of one another at the mid-point the two Mercedes cars dropped back from the Red Bull pairing and got involved in their own battle in the closing laps. Interestingly, Rosberg also asked to be let past and take this place but he was firmly told by Team Principal Ross Brawn to maintain position and bring the cars home.

There was an amusing and slightly ironic moment for Hamilton when he stopped in the McLaren box at his first pit stop. Luckily for Mercedes he did not lose too much time.

Behind the top four was another strong performance for Felipe Massa and the sole Ferrari.  He had a relatively quiet race after losing out at the start and dropping back from his second place start. He had aimed to complete the race in three stops – contrary to the four of the cars ahead – but was forced in to a late stop when he had a lot of space to drop back in to.

Lotus had a contrasting result to last weekend with Kimi Raikkonen spending much of the race stuck behind a number of cars and becoming frustrated. Nevertheless, he ended the race in seventh place – just behind team mate Romain Grosjean – and gained some vital points for the Enstone squad.

Completing the top ten was Nico Hulkenberg, Sergio Perez and Jean-Eric Vergne with all three having a good race. Hulkenberg was one of Raikkonen’s main competitors and illustrated good pace throughout. Perez, meanwhile, had a lonely race and chose to pit on the penultimate lap for a set of medium tyres to claim the fastest lap.

There were some notable retirees apart from Alonso as both Force India cars had a troubled day with a number of long pit stops before retiting both cars.

Jenson Button was having a very promising performance for his struggling McLaren team in fifth place when he also retired late in the race.

Finally, Jules Bianchi continued his impressive start to the his rookie season by ending the race in thirteenth place and thirty-four seconds ahead of Charles Pic behind.

MALAYSIAN GRAND PRIX, Sepang, 56 laps
1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1h38m56.681s
2. Mark Webber Red Bull + 4.298s
3. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes + 12.181s
4. Nico Rosberg Mercedes + 12.640s
5. Felipe Massa Ferrari + 25.648s
6. Romain Grosjean Lotus + 35.564s
7. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus + 48.479s
8. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber + 53.044s
9. Sergio Perez McLaren + 1m12.357s
10. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso + 1m27.124s
11. Valtteri Bottas Williams + 1m28.610s
12. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber + 1 lap
13. Jules Bianchi Marussia + 1 lap
14. Charles Pic Caterham + 1 lap
15. Giedo van der Garde Caterham + 1 lap
16. Max Chilton Marussia + 2 laps
17. Jenson Button McLaren + 3 laps
18. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso + 5 laps

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1,138 Comments
  1. Craig in Manila says:

    Okay, I can sense that this is gonna be a cracker of a forum whilst this race gets digested so I’m just gonna say :

    - Well done to Lewis (I’m not much of a fan normally) for having the class to mention Nico on the podium and for being so humble about their situation re team orders etc.

    - In the final 10 laps of the race, did RBR actually do anything to try to get Seb to move back to second position ?

    1. Sebee says:

      Would you make a 3X WDC move over for your #2?

      1. Galapago555 says:

        For sure I wouldn’t.

        Of course, I would never pretend not to have a hierarchy on my team, with a #1 and a #2 driver.

      2. Quercus says:

        Seems to me that Vettel has got the Michael Schumacher disease; by which I mean he doesn’t understand sportsmanship–he thinks it’s war.

        His behaviour today makes a mockery of the ‘team orders’ rule. The incidents in both Mercedes and Red Bull suggest we should revert to a ban on team orders–at least then everyone would know where we stand and the drivers could make their own minds up how they’re going to respond to whatever information they’re fed.

      3. rplust says:

        ….and team orders make a mockery of racing and cheat the ones watching the race.

      4. danny11 says:

        RBR team always says that they don’t have No.1 driver and that they are allowed to race. They are disgrace for the sport!

      5. IDR says:

        RBR tell the world every time they can, they have no number 1 number 2 drivers policy.

      6. PB says:

        If you think this is a question even worth asking, best for us not to even attempt answering it. Although, you might be interested in H Marko’s words following the GP – “we do not have preferred drivers like Mercedes do”.

      7. Konal says:

        I would if my “#2″ deserved to be in front, which he clearly did

      8. Dazza says:

        No, I wouldn’t move him over to let the team #2 driver ahead. However, if I was that said number 2 driver, Id punt that turd Vettel into the Barrier any chance I had for the next 3 events. Watch your arse Vettel, Aussies have long memories.

      9. forestial says:

        Yes, they should have told him to move over since his pass was flagrantly against team orders. But Horner knows he has no authority over Vettel, with Marko skulking about.

      10. Craig in Manila says:

        My point (if unclear) was :

        It’s rather hypocritical of Mr.Horner to say that Seb was wrong to overtake when, in fact, RBR then did nothing to “undo” Seb’s mistake.

      11. veeru says:

        +1

        also to note that, horner tried to bring up last year situation where Webber tried the same thing…

        that alone suggests that they actually are happy with this result and it was disgusting to try to even things out

      12. roryfireplace says:

        great points Craig…myself i’ve never been a big fan of this team-order “hold station” business…far too early in the season for those shenanigans. Webber in the past has been faster than Seb and told to cool it and being a gentleman he has. not impressed with what Seb did…but please team principals…stop being such sissy’s and let the boys race for heaven’s sake! Nico should have been allowed to sweep past Hamilton…let’s let the fastest end up at the front. the momentum of both Nico and Mark has been curtailed…not fair so early in the season especially. i don’t like artifically controlled results and team orders (in the pursuit of fairness) should NEVER be instituted until one driver is out of mathmatical chances to win the WDC. cheers, all! ps. never been a big Hammy fan but i’m sure liking the ”new” one a lot more!!

      13. CH says:

        Exactly. Horner et al can say any words they want but their actions (or lack of) say it all.
        Deja vu.

      14. Sebee says:

        Conspiracy Theory #30! Read about it in latest analysis post. :-)

      15. Tank says:

        @Sebee – you mean a 3x WC that relied on the assistance of Webber, Ricciardo and Vergne to take the 2012 title, yet can’t toe the party line when it doesn’t suit him? This is one of the lowest acts in GP history, akin to Pironi/Villeneuve. At least Schumacher was a team man!

      16. John says:

        My opinion is that Seb would have never ever done that move if he was not sure that RB would accept it. I would even think that it was agreed before the race. Mark was ordered to turn down the engine in order Seb to overtake him without too much trouble. What they did not predict was that it would not go that easy, as Mark does not give up easily, and that the whole move will bring the safety of both cars in question. Mark said that he was thinking a lot in the last 15 laps. I hope that Mark will pay back RB and Seb. If the situation is reversed, Seb will not let Mark have the win to pay him back for the “mistake”. And that is what a good sportsman, a person who really believes in what he says would do in such situation.

      17. Matt says:

        Horner’s job is to ensure he gets two cars netting maximum points as often as possible. He doesn’t care which car wins the race, as long as
        - team unity is preserved (ie it continues to be a team that develops a car well, doesn’t have drivers taking each other out etc)
        - hopefully one of them amasses enough points to win the drivers’ title.

        Webber is in many ways an ideal #2 driver – in many other teams (indeed, in this one until Vettel arrived) he comfortably could be a #1 – he’s consistent, fast, mostly plays team rules, does media well, and very rarely has an ‘off’ day that results in few points.
        For sure Helmut has a point that perhaps he doesn’t challenge for wins as often as possible (for whatever reason), but in terms of overall team harmony, he’s a very, very good signing.

        What’s the chance that during that thoughtful 15 laps Webber decided that he’s going to race the pants off Seb for the remainder of the year, meanwhile seeking a -different- seat for next year?

        What if Vettel has forced Horner’s hand to take Riccardo or Vergne for 2014 through this action? Neither seems ready; Christian might do better to organise a swapsie with Massa and Webber, or at worst see what Ron wants for Perez.

        For the sake of the meaning of the word Management, Horner needs to get Vettel under control, or risk seeing his primadonna upset the apple cart.

      18. bearforce1 says:

        Yeah I kinda agree except that its not like Webber hasn’t ignored team orders before.

      19. Nick says:

        You can sure as hell bet that Webber will be racing Vettel in every race from now on and will not listen if he gets told to hold station behind him, and why should he….Vettel can apologise all he likes but his actions speak louder than words.

        Webber was told to turn his engine down and drive to the finish and did as instructed, but Vettel had a massive brain fade and let his own ambition come before the team in only the 2nd race.

        I think a lot of people are forgetting that even though this has an individual award, that is also a Team Sport, it’s not a free for all anymore because now there is too much money involved to have Senna/Prost repeats.

        Its just like Massa being told to move over for Alonso, or having his engine seal broken to give Alonso a better Grid position. I saw all those incidents as bringing the sport into disrepute as much as this was.

        Horner as principal has to maximize the points that the team gets out of races above racers; and at this point Webber was the one in front near the end and to ensure they both came home for all the points they made a team call….rather than risk these two going at and having another Turkey moment.

        Either way, Webber needs to just screw team orders and play the game Vettel wants to play. Obviously he values his own glory above that of the team, so Mark should as well.

      20. Tim says:

        Yes.
        RBR confirmed, they had agreed, that the positions after the final round of pit stops would be the way the team finished the race. If they want to favour their #1 driver they should not make such arrangements.
        To be fair to SV, he was only following the lead of his employers, who set the tone within the team, when they reneged on the Resource Restriction Agreement (allegedly).

    2. Cakes says:

      -F1 Supremo says Lewis Hamilton asked him to find a new team
      -Two racing teams instructed their drivers not to race after 3 quarters of the race
      -One disobeyed and one didnt

      As a fan, I dont care about Vettel or Webber. I just wonder how this sport is so doctored. The next time, a driver says “It isnt over until the last lap”, I wont believe it.

      Racing fans should feel cheated.

      1. mario says:

        “The next time, a driver says “It isnt over until the last lap”, I wont believe it.”

        i completely agree. in my opinion, the sport has been brought into disrepute.

        James Allen, will the forumla one body ‘supposedly in charge’ do something about the duisgraceful behaviour of these teams to prevent any further disrepute? Isnt there a rule against bringing the sport into disrepute?

      2. F1racer says:

        To have an unbiased view:

        I was disgusted for the fact that after the last pit stop, the two red bulls fought close with mark establishing the lead, only for seb to mug mark a couple of laps later. Had it been for mark not turning down his engine mode, and seb passing him, it would have been fair but as it didn’t happen like that, we are all including the red bull team totally unhappy. Seb was shocked to see newey being stern to him in the podium backstage, little realizing his own folly.

        But on the other side of the coin, all can agree that it was thrilling to watch those two battle in the track and the acrimony act develop in the podium. Who was sitting at the edge of their seats watching nico restraining behind lewis?? that was an anti-climax!

      3. Nick says:

        It is a team sport; so how is a team trying to maximize points to try and get a lead in the Constructors Title (Which is worth Hundreds of Millions of Prize Money) rather than pander to the ambitions of one driver?

        The WCC is more important to the team than the WDC, sure they like to have the double….but Im sure the sponsors would rather the team have success as a whole.

        Vettel seems to be putting his own ambition ahead of the team….when he should be doing what is best for the team, not himself.

      4. Ernie says:

        Well, as long as I’ve been a fan of F1 (since about 1971 – in the seventies and eighties I mostly attended races in Canada some at Watkins Glen) there have been team orders – it’s part of the sport – to make sure that drivers don’t take each other out when they are in top positions. It is a TEAM sport, something Vettel has no respect for. Vettel just HAS to win – screw everyone else, and although F1 drivers are bred that way he only thinks of himself and not the team. He is the problem here and the team radio conversations (at least the ones we were allowed to hear) were clear in the fact that Vettel was to hold back – even Horner got on the radio telling Vettel not to be silly before he took Webber on corner two.
        I hope Webber continues to follow the rules as he always does, goes after Vettel with all his heart and then changes teams for next season.
        Vettel is a crybaby and very few of the drivers even have respect for the “champion”. Champions don’t act this way – but they do get away with it.
        If it wasn’t team racing – each team would only have one car and one driver.

      5. Craig Baker says:

        Why should Webber have to leave the team that he helped develop and build from Jaguar to RBR with the help of Coulthard and Newey. Demote Vettel to Torro Rosso, he won there before and if he is so good I am sure he could win there again.

      6. richard says:

        why is there any disrepute?

        f1 racing teams can agree, decide and plan anything they wish – and drivers (and the pit and pitwall crew) can execute anything they wish – within the rules.

        in this case, seb decided he’s going to take the victory. he’s obviously a bit of a loose cannon and not a team-player for doing so, but damn it if it didn’t result in some of the finest wheel to wheel racing i’ve seen since lewis and jenson went hammer and tongs a few laps after vettel and webber collided in turkey 2010.

        why would anyone complain at this?! it’s like saying the midfielder who scored a winning goal shouldn’t have done so because the plan was for the star striker to do it.

        enjoy the fact they went racing!

        as for merc, i can understand this too – rosberg played the flipside to the coin above, effectively passing the ball to the star striker in the hope one day he might be given the opportunity himself.

        it’s a team sport – but the driver’s are what make it fun and exciting :)

      7. Steve says:

        Time to do away with Pit to car radio I think and get back to boards hanging from the pit wall. Imagine a race where drivers have to think for themselves and have no radio..it works for the 2 wheelers and it used to work beautifully for F1 in the pre radio days.

    3. Wayne says:

      VET was wrong, there is no excuse and no reasonable argument against this position. However, were F1 not cursed with ridiculous Pirelli tyres these guys would not be strolling around 8 tenths off their maximum pace. They would be more certain of the drivers ultimate pace around them and they could all drive accordingly. The races are being decided, not by team orders which quite rightly come into play later in the race for TEAMS to protect their investment, but in the strategy rooms. I curse they day Pirelli came into F1 (I realise they are doing what is asked of them but THEY make the tyres ultimately). I, for one, would never ever buy a Pirelli road tyre for my car on sheer bloody principle. How they think F1 is a good marketing venture for them is beyond me. If I buy a tyre for my car I want to know they’ll last through a trip to the corner shop ;)

      1. LT says:

        I actually have/had Pirelli tyres on my car. I can say thier road tyres reflect thier race tyres……they don’t last long at all!! Not good value for the price they ask for them.

      2. richard says:

        on a triumph daytona 675 i can heartily recommend pirelli – sticky boots indeed!

      3. Rudy says:

        Good point here by Wayne, how does Pirelli come out in marketing terms after 2 seasons where all we listen to is tyres, tyres… Or it is a perfect example of negative remembrance in which a bad product raises consumer awareness but even then you keep the brand in your mind. We know road going Pirelli tyres are not long-lasting but what about young guys influenced by F-1 marketing. I think that’s the target.

      4. richard says:

        i agree totally on the effect the tyres have on the racing, but there’s the counter argument everyone forgets…

        if the tyres allow flat out racing with no deg, the fastest car will always win in f1 – there’ll be no wheel to wheel racing at all…

    4. Simmo says:

      Well, what I don’t understand is why suddenly red bull have favoured Webber this race. Seems very odd.

      1. Nulla says:

        Red Bull normally let there drivers race each other until the final pit stops are over and then they are asked to hold position if the 2 cars are in the lead. What happened here is that the team didn’t stuff up Webber’s race enough to get Vettel back into the lead cleanly at the last pit stop. Which in the end Vettel couldn’t handle. My guess is then Webber was told not to fight back and that is how the race finished. If you look at the tyres on both cars at the end. Webber should have been in a far better position for the last 5 laps and should have been able to pass Vettel to take the win. But this could have put Vettel at risk after a tough fight to the 2 Mercedes in the final laps. At this point Mercedes would have let Rosberg past Hamliton and Red Bull could have lost a easy 1-2.

      2. Yak says:

        It’s not about favouring one driver over the other. It’s about favouring the result for the team overall. A battle between the two of them could have killed their tyres and left them open to those behind (I would think if RB were clearly struggling, Rosberg might have been released to race), or worse led to a collision. The team had discussed what would happen in this situation, and they were told on track to just hold position and cruise to the end. If their positions had been reversed to begin with, it would have been Webber having to hold behind Vettel.

      3. Craig Baker says:

        If you look at the WCC standings for RBR, you can use it as a barometer to see how high Mark has been allowed to climb in a race.
        After Melbourne RBR were concerned by Ferrari’s result hence giving Mark max support to assist in bringing home maximum points for the WCC.
        China will see a fired up Mark being painted as a trouble maker, and finishing off the podium still with reasonable points.
        You have seen a race strategy many times, well this is RBR’s season strategy.

    5. AlexD says:

      It is simple, webber should never ever support vettel and I am sure that he will do everything for other people to win, but not vettel.

      1. Brad says:

        He already does that

    6. vicnsi says:

      Regardless of how anyone tries to spin this, (particularly Vettel supporters) this episode has hurt Vettel’s integrity quite badly, without any question whatsoever.

      Yes, he’s young & hungry; yes, he wants to win at all costs; yes we love racers who give no quarters; yes, your team mate is the competitor you most want to beat; yes, he’s apologised for his indiscretion; etc., etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum…

      The bottom line is, at the end of the day, this is only a ‘Sport’, and in Sport, there really is such a thing as a gentleman…in that being recognised as ‘gentleman’ is still a most priceless virtue. Just ask Sir Stirling Moss.

      This is very reminiscent of the sort of heated, intense & contentious rivalry (b/w Gilles Villenuve & Didier Pironi) that indirectly led Villeneuve to his death. Let’s hope this brewing Vettel/Webber rivalry doesn’t end quite as tragically, for Webber…

    7. George says:

      Is it possible tog get telemetry and clear up the situation here? Were Red Bull trying to save engine, tyres or fuel and how is the code passed to the drivers to hold position?

      If people knew this then it would end further speculation and the actions ,intent and displeasure by the team would be confirmed.

    8. Rob in Tas says:

      I expect the little prince and Helmut Marko would expect Mark to push him over the line in the last race of the season to win the championship.

      Our little German friend may be a 3X WDC and have a driven passion to win, but I still cant bring myself to like the man.

    9. Andrew Carter says:

      Horner has already said that he didn’t believe Seb not doing it on purpose and felt that he’d just ignore the order, again.

    10. WHood says:

      It seems that RBR is favoring Webber now and has forgotten who brought them the TRIPLE DOUBLE!!!! Maybe its time to move on Seb and go to a team that can treat you like a TRIPLE WORLD CHAMPION!!!!!

      Come on Webber, you are no 2. It is written on your car, your cap, your race suit, including everything with your name on it!!!!

      1. Jim McMillan says:

        But not in his contract.

    11. Ace says:

      I think it’s time for Mark Webber to stop being Mr Nice Guy and think only of himself and the chance to bank points for the title.

      It’s clear Red Bull favour Vettel and put Webber on the side lines.

      Hopefully Mark takes this as a wake up call that Seb will do him no favours in the persuit of another title.

      This year will be Mark’s only chance to have a real go at the title again and he needs to fight back with the same attitude as Vettel.”Take no prisoners”.

      Remember the Senna – Prost battle when they were in the same team.

    12. Jimmy says:

      Bad for F1, just makes it harder for the fans to enjoy when contrived results come into any sport. I have heard it called match-fixing and apparently people can even get fined!!! Fancy that!!

      1. Ace says:

        Spot on !!!! That’s why an Australian betting company have decided to refund any money paid on Webber winning the race as it can be viewed as match – fixing.

        If this was a horse race the jockey would be suspended and the owners fined if not disqualified from racing.

        I say no team order regardless of standings because F1 is about individual drivers trying to win with the machinery they have and they should be free to race to the end.

        The team picks up the same glory for a win regardless of the driver.

        It was an absolute sham that 1,2,3,and 4th place were under the same orders as Niko is in the same boat as Webber.

  2. JimmiC says:

    The baby-faced assassin. Quite ruthless from the boy, in a manner that – even given past tensions – was dramatic. Speaking as a neutral viewer with no driver bias, I actually like him more because of it.

    Two races in and we have fireworks already. Great race.

    1. Scuderia McLaren says:

      +1

      I like Vettel more also because he raced.

      Vettel just did to webber what webber tried to do to Vettel in the British GP 2011 despite team orders then also.

      1. Xbox 720 says:

        +3
        Good on Vettel he is the reigning world champion and play 2nd fiddle to Webber, I don’t know what Horner’s thinking, and lets make it clear Webber knew Seb was making the move he was under attack for over 2 laps and also Horner said they were on the same engine map, Redbull should never have made that order, Webber won’t be winning the title.

      2. Craig D says:

        That is true. It’sore emotional when it’s for a win. It could be viewed as fine as long as Seb fully expects Mark to teturn the favour from now on! Whereas Rosberg would hope his taking one for the team to one day be redeemed.

      3. Alex says:

        I’d have more respect for Vettel’s move if he’d stood by his decision to race Webber. His apology after this race put me in mind of Schumacher’s reaction after the 2002 Austrian GP: was it genuine contrition or a reaction to popular opinion?

      4. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Agree with you Alex. The apology is the only part that is wrong in my opinion. He should own his actions and not think the fans so stupid as to not know what happened. We know, and some of us are smart enough to remember that Webber does the same thing. He should just simply say that.

        “live by the sword, die by the sword.”

      5. Siobhan says:

        I don’t think Vettel was apologising for racing, more that he broke a gentleman agreement (multi 21). He was ok until the point that Webber joined him before the podium and said “Multi 21″.. his demeanour changed after that. I don’t fault Vettel, he raced. I was willing Rosberg to do the same with Hamilton. I don’t want to see 1/4 race where the winner is already decided

      6. Alan says:

        Excellent point!

      7. Wayne says:

        No its not an excellent point. Unlike today, there was no agreement that both drivers had signed up to before the British GP, they sprung that on WEB mid race. This is very different if you think it through.

      8. veeru says:

        it is not so excellent when both the drivers were asked to turn down the engines and run to finish, except the boy wonder chose to ignore it..

        if that is excellent in your book, please use the word ever so rarely

      9. eduardo says:

        you do know that webber´s car was tuned down during the race right? i think that is the most important part everyone is leaving out

      10. Michael S says:

        I agree… Webber has stated over and over again that he will not listen to team orders to let Vettel win. Last year when Vettel was up for the title Massa helped Alonso a ton, but Webebr said no way to that….

        I am not a fan of team orders at all. With that said… Mark cannot have it both ways. If he would have helped Vettel last year instead of racing him hard then I would say Vettel is in the wrong today.. However, he does not help so don’t expect help today…

      11. Wade Parmino says:

        In the 2011 British GP Webber ceased his attack on Vettel as soon as team orders were given.

        Foolish diplomatic decision on Vettel’s part. At any point in the future Vettel is leading and Webber is in 2nd place but has enough pace to pass, he most certainly will regardless of what the team orders. Vettel has just shown Webber that he has no respect for team procedures (multi 21) and now the gloves are definitely off. On the podium Webber’s demeanor was just like Gilles Villenueve’s after the 1982 Imola race.

      12. IDR says:

        Overtake your team mate meanwhile he is driving according to team orders that you are not obeying is not racing.

        You could or could not agree with team orders, but if one of them is under team orders and the other not, this is not real racing, this is an unfair advantage taken by one of them.

        No honor in this days we are living…

      13. **Paul** says:

        Indeed that’s exactly what I thought of too. Red Bull were roundly slated after that race for preferential treatment of Vettel, who was already well in control of the championship. So quite why Mercedes aren’t the bad gus today is puzzling, I can only put this down to driver bias from media/fans. Rosberg was evidently quicker and had the sufficent fuel to stay on it. I think we can assume Lewis has a preferential treatment clause in his contract.

        Was Vettel right to ignore team orders, following the path of Webber and Button? Yes in my opinion. He’s there to win, it’s not sporting, it’s not very nice and its not going to help his relationship with Mark, but I believe the greats in modern F1 would all have done the same. Senna, Prost, Schumacher and Alonso… Look at what they’ve got in common and the answer is titles. To be the best sometimes you have to be nasty.

        F1 is a harsh world, and I think casual fans will struggle with the above. I do feel for Mark, but nice guys rarely finish first in F1.

        One final point, the battles between the Red Bulls and Mercedes were great action, as a fan that’s what I love to see, drivers going toe to toe in equal cars, hence my delight that Massa is also back on form.

      14. Just because the so-called “greats” have acted like that in the past doesn’t make it the right thing to do. Vetted can win all the world titles he wants but they will be hollow victories that no-one respects. And I wish he would stop putting up that finger at the end. He was not the best driver on the day. Mark had more than his measure and believed they were driving to team orders (and I am someone who is realistic about their existence in the sport – if I was paying $50M+ a year I would expect to call the shots to ensure a safe 1 – 2). Karma may bite Vettel on the backside at some point in the future as he took more life out of the engine than was needed.

        What itnHAS done, though, is spiced this up a lot. Can’t wait to see how it all plays out. However, I have my suspicion that Webber will suffer many mysterious mechanical gremlins and bad starts this year, particularly if he qualifies beside, or worse – dares to out-qualify, Vettel.

      15. Bomber says:

        Fangio, Clarke, Stewart, Graham Hill, Piquet, Fittipaldi would never have done what Vettel did.

      16. **Paul** says:

        @Bomber, you’ve got to be kidding about Piquet! The man who paid for bad press to be printed about Mansell’s family to gain the upper hand?

        Ther others you mention wouldn’t have done it, I grant you, but we’re talking modern F1 here. It’s no gentlemans sport, it’s a business. Just like other big sports. A shame yes, but also true!

      17. pawan says:

        oh thats right.. they would never do that…. they only take their team mates car instead…

      18. Kili Liam says:

        Excellent point! x2

      19. newton says:

        I think it’s a bit weasely to do that and then be so apologetic afterwards. Like they say, NEVER APOLOGISE, NEVER EXPLAIN.
        Man up and admit that you were dastardly.

      20. Mikey moos says:

        Excellent point????? At Silverstone Mark showed he was quicker then backed off, as per instructions from the team.
        Seb simply disobeyed team orders and should be penalised for it.
        It was absolutely nothing like Silverstone. Get the Seb blinkers off please,

      21. Ahmed says:

        IN British GP 2011, Webber did not listen to team orders, he attacked Vettel until the final lap, and Vettel held him off and finished just ahead of Webber. Webber has never been a team player, and refuses to accept that Vettel is better than him, despite 3 world titles to Vettels name.

        The definition of a team player is Massa, have a look at how he supported Alonso at the tail end of 2012, staying out longer on strategy, pushing webber to the outside, and giving Alonso the inside to overtake 2 positions in Brazil 2012 etc. Webber will never do this, and has constantly stated the he will never play a support role or listen to team orders, which is pretty selfish. So you get back what you put in Mr Webber.

        To all the Vettel haters, one question, if it were Webber that defied team orders and overtook Vettel, would there be the same uproar, or would you call him a legend???

      22. Simon Donald says:

        +1000. What Seb did was exactly what he tried to do in Turkey a couple of years ago, driving far too aggressively against his teammate. He’s just lucky he didn’t gift Lewis Hamilton another victory as he did then!

      23. **Paul** says:

        Because finishing 4 tenths behind your team mate is ‘backing off’ ?! I think you need to rewatch those final 5 laps or so Sir !

      24. H Bailey says:

        this is the thing that happens when a person is feed with a silver spoon.They become a brat and act like that. Vettel was groomed for the sport he wouldnt understand what its like to have to really fight and earn something.

        F1 is losing its way.

        The tyres are making the sport so boring.

        People like Alonso because he is the champion of the fans and vettel is the champion of the machine. He will never in my eyes be classed as the best ever.Win as many titles as you want

      25. Nigel says:

        Except he didn’t race; it’s fairly clear that he tricked his teammate.

        The two raced aggressively and fairly after Webber’s last pit stop, and Webber held on to the lead (despite being on colder tyres). The team then instructed both drivers to turn down their engine settings. Webber did so; Vettel deliberately ignored the instruction (as he later acknowledged), and effectively mugged his teammate for position.

        I’m not a huge fan of team orders, but in a situation like this where the team had genuine doubts about the tyres ability to last the stresses of a battle to the finish, they are understandable. If a driver isn’t going to follow them in these circumstances, then he owes the team and his teammate some notice of that.
        Webber’s and the team’s surprise at Vettel’s actions was blatantly obvious.

        It is one thing refusing team orders; it is quite another to use your ignoring of a team instruction as a way to gain advantage over a teammate who is following the identical instruction.

      26. Syd says:

        Agree totaly.

        If both race on equal terms, then no issue.

        Webber turned his engine down, at the instruction of the team, only to be mugged from behind. A cowardly act.

        I recall occasions where Webber has been told to back off, and has done so.

        I like the taste of the drink, but RedBull has left a bitter taste in Webbers mouth !!

      27. Andrew Carter says:

        Except Webber followed those orders.

      28. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Wrong. He didnt follow orders, Ge simply failed to do what Seb did. The world is angry cause Seb simply made it stick despite almost being put in the wall. Funnily enough, Webber was most vocal about Schuey doing that to Barri in Hungary a few years ago. Hypocrite. Happy to see that Seb kept his foot down and showed the size of his balls is a match for his talent.

      29. Kimi4WDC says:

        “Please tell Mark, I’m racing him” – if that was Vettel’s respond then I would agree with you. Otherwise, considering his experience and all his titles, that was a pity showing on Vettel’s behalf.

      30. Siobhan says:

        Redbull had also 10 laps to tell Vettel what he did wrong and maybe Webber could have had that place back but they let it go to the very end and told him as he was getting on the podium… Mark should have been on to his engineers as Hamilton had done in the past with Button “I thought we were not race”.. “are you sure he understands and is not going to attack”… Mark let it go until the very end.

      31. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Love the name- I am rooting for Kimi this year.

        Good point about Vettel stating intent. His actions on track I think we’re clear. Webber can’t really claim surprise, but you are right. Vettel should have said “Nope, sorry boys, but I’m going for it.”

        Personally, I still think Webber was clear about what Vettel was doing.

      32. rplust says:

        Webber and all his fans should stop whining. Where was his support in the last race in Brasil when Vettel’s Championship was at stake and he needed every point? Nowhere! Webber finished 4th, Vettel 6th! I haven’t seen neither Sebastian complaining nor Horner saying a word. Besides this is supposed to be F1 racing not cruising. It’s also a shame that Rosberg degraded himself to the number 2. Develope some back bone guys, points win championships, nothing else. I’m not a fan of Schumacher but he learned early enough to ignore critics.

    2. Wayne says:

      So, just to check – you like someone more when they break a trust with their team mate and disobey their employer? Why, because he is an F1 driver it is ok to have no honour or sportsmanship? They can do anything they like to win – is that it?

      These two had an agreement before the race started. I hate the idea that people idolise those that act despicably just because they are a celebrity. What he did was plain wrong, even he knows it on some level,

      It was wrong for the team also. How does Webber react later in the season when he cannot trust the guy he is driving at 200mph against? If he is in front he cannot trust VET to play the team game so he has to push and wear out his tyres or they collide. If he is behind he does not listen to the team because he knows his team-mate will not – so he pushes, they both wear out their tyres out or they collide.

      1. JimmiC says:

        There is no trust there – never was. I suspect Webber was expecting an attack all along. The deliberate disobeying of a team order is the wider bone of contention.

        Just to be clear I think what Seb did was, as I said in my original post, completely ruthless. That’s not the same as me saying he did a good thing. The reason I like him more after this incident is because it is the last fragment of this easy going, humble persona removed. Seb’s crossed the rubicon now and shown himself to be a winner, at all costs. Despite everything that has come before – the Silverstone front wing mess, crashing into Webber – we have a different World Champion this morning. The dryness in his voice when he asked for Webber to be moved aside was laced with contempt.

      2. rplust says:

        Well, if you are in favor of fixing the races, I’m in favor of abolishing the F1. They shall pack and go home! Not interested in BS! And I’m sure many viwers see it the same way.

    3. IgMi says:

      While I am a driver fan (rather than a team fan) I always consider F1 to be a team sport (although I am not a big fan of team orders). I find “taking matters into ones own hands” to justify ones own ego while putting the team result at risk extremely disrespectful to hundreds of people who work long hours to make the team successful. I would not accept the justifications that somebody is being a “racing driver”. Vettel lost a lot in my eyes today. “Apology not accepted.”

    4. ACx says:

      Ironically, it was the best I’ve seen Vettel fight.

      1. HRC says:

        Right! When the other guy has one hand tied behind his back.
        What part of dialling back on the engine don’t you get.
        With all his success, Vettel is weaving a legacy of doubt about his true abilities.

      2. Ciao says:

        You can’t determine who fought best without knowing the engWebbine and KERS settings. Given Webber’s outright pace on the red tyre all weekend vs Vettel, and Vettel running white scrubs that had an additional two more laps on them at the change, who would think that Webber didn’t have the pace to either fight off Vettel or take him again. I believe Webber was snookered by his contract and he did a mighty job fighting Vettel on the settings he was allowed by team orders.

      3. Jonathan says:

        mmmm so Vettel’s best fight is against a team mate whose engine is turned down and told he won’t be challenged…?

    5. Stef says:

      Vettel raced and got the victory. Webber obeyed and got second. That’s the end of it.

      Good on Vettel for telling the team to get stuffed with team orders while he was racing. That’s what I want to see. I wish he hadn’t apologized afterwards.

      The racer won, and no F1 fan can have a problem with that.

      As a side note: why did Webber try to defend so strongly when he knew that Vettel wasn’t allowed to overtake? He tried his best and still got out-raced…

      1. Scuderia McLaren says:

        +1

      2. Mike J says:

        “”The racer won, and no F1 fan can have a problem with that.

        As a side note: why did Webber try to defend so strongly when he knew that Vettel wasn’t allowed to overtake? He tried his best and still got out-raced…””

        You mean the racer won when he passed a team mate who had turned his engine down after the team told him too. Yeh, real racer there. I cannot see any dignity in a win when you beat your team mate who has one armed tied behind his back. Don’t think he was out raced there.

      3. Magos says:

        +1

        I thought webber had no rear-view mirrors!

        Seb like Senna Imola 89! great

      4. Jonathan says:

        they say luck will out… which should mean Vettel will have an engine failure ‘cos he refused to turn it down today. Racing for a championship is about more than winning one race – especially if an engine must last 3 races.

      5. Quercus says:

        I’m sure Vettel and Webber were told to turn down their engine power for a reason. If there’s any justice in this world, in not following the team orders to turn down his engine, he’ll have over-stressed it. He won the race but just maybe his decision will come back to bite him later in the season.

      6. Marc says:

        Lets hope he has stressed the engine

      7. Richard Chen says:

        Eh?

        the only reason seb was in a position to challenge mark at the end was because mark had turned his engine down. Seb did not.

        Hardly fair

      8. Bomber says:

        So next time Vettel tells his team he’s coming in to change tyres I suggest they don’t and show him what it means to be part of a team.

    6. SteveH says:

      @JimmiC – let me get this straight: The RBR drivers have an agreement about finishing the race in position. Webber has turned down his engine, on command of the team, and Vettel, against specific orders and the team mates agreement, jumps him and steals the race. Vettel’s actions are despicable and dishonest; who will ever trust him again? He knew what he was doing was wrong on many levels and still did it. His ‘explanation’ and ‘apology’ were both self serving and lying. Instead of increasing my respect for him Vettel, by his actions, has made me actively dislike him. I think the team should not let him race the next race.

    7. Jeff says:

      What you are saying would be correct if it was a fair fight. But Marks car was turned down so really Sebastian was just a bully. Today was the first time since Turkey 2010 that I have disagreed with a call by Sebastian.

    8. BillyW says:

      Was it really a fair fight if Webber had turned down his engine?

    9. Tm says:

      +1 JimmiC.

      Vettel made the race exiting and made it a great race that we will all remember for some time. Without it the race wouldn’t have been as entertaining for us fans and thats what we want, entertainment.

      Vettel was faster, so therefore deserved to win.

      1. Poyta says:

        Vettel was only faster because he didn’t turn down the engine like Mark did – who knows if he would be faster if Mark didn’t – he certainly couldn’t catch up to to Mark for most of the race when they both had the opportunity to actually race. . Stolen win I say – I have no issues with letting them fight and may the best man win but it wasn’t a fair fight in this case.
        Shame Seb Shame.

      2. Gate 21 says:

        It’s a pity your definition of “faster” doesn’t quite match the data.

        Maybe you believed Vettel’s complaints during the race (over the radio) that he was faster than Mark, yet immediately after began dropping time to Webber.

        Vettel blew a sizeable lead on inters when he stopped early for slicks. Webber was “faster” that is why he made up such a deficit to lead after the first stops.

        Webber led more laps of the race than Vettel. Vettel tried to catch and pass Webber for the entire race up to that point (on equal footing) and was unable to.

        Webber had a lead of 3 seconds at the time when Vettel pitted for his final stop.

        When both stops were completed Webber was STILL in the lead – albeit with a much smaller lead than before the final stop. But he defended his position fairly for the outlap.

        Webber was ordered to turn the engine down and limit use of KERS do so. Vettel was given the same order and did not. That is why he made the pass stick.

        It took Webber nursing the car UNDER INSTRUCTION FROM THE TEAM for Vettel to get past.

        There is no “faster” about it.

      3. mario says:

        absolutely a top response. couldn’t have put it better myself.

      4. Ahmed says:

        Vettel was clearly faster, he was all over Webber’s gearbox, and this allowed both Hamilton and Rosberg to close in on both Red Bulls.

        Vettel was better on his tyres, and made the softs last longer than Webber did on the hard set.

        Vettel easily got within 1 second, and his engineer told him “we’re only half distance” i.e. be patient, you will have more chances later. Vettel backed off to save his tyres and get out of the turbulent air as he could see that Mercedes pace was dropping off at the end of their stints.

        Vettel was patient for the whole race, Webber held him up, caused Vettel to lose a position to Hamilton and almost to Rosberg. Vettel responded, overtook Hamilton and went after Webber.

        Make no mistake Webber was fighting very aggressively and turned on full power settings, as can be seen by his straight line speed. Vettel could not even pass him with DRS. Vettel pulled off a stunning overtake around the outside of turn 4. End of story.

    10. MikeW says:

      -1. Disagree.

      While it looks like the boy was racing, it was really a sucker punch. No respect for doing *that*

      To me, Schumacher isn’t “the greatest” because of the way he behaved in getting his WDC. Vettel is going the same way at degrading his successes.

      1. Bomber says:

        Hear Hear!

      2. John says:

        So who is the greatest.. Senna was jst as ruthless as schumacher, the greats of the sport all have something in common…. They will do anything to win,its part of their make up and no accident they are multiple champions.

  3. Nasi says:

    James has any notice of the f1 paddock been given to footage of Webber flipping off Vettel during the race, it’s circling around facebook in Australia
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=tw&v=DJrctaOrjvk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDJrctaOrjvk%26sns%3Dtw
    and an image as well:
    http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7209/dwm2013032407563244avis.jpg

    1. Phil H. says:

      hahaha :D

    2. Cammage says:

      Justified. In what could be Webber’s last year in F1, why would he now do as he is told. Clearly his best chance of winning a maiden title is to do what’s best for himself and just go for it!

    3. MrNed says:

      Not sure if you’re suggesting that the stewards should impose sanctions for such behaviour? If so then don’t you think the stewards have more important things to do than get involved in handing out punishments for drivers being slightly rude to each other?

      1. Nasi says:

        Nah the stewards should definitely not get involved, was just trying to highlight how rubbish Vettel’s excuses were that he ‘made a mistake’ and he’s ‘sorry’ – Webber seems to think it was all very deliberate. So it doesn’t matter what they say after the race, in the heat of the moment the true feelings come out between the two like when Vettel did the ‘crazy’ finger gesture to Webber in Turkey a few years back

    4. Carlos Marques says:

      I’m sure Webber was just telling Vettel “Hey, I was supposed to be no. 1!”

    5. I can’t believe that Sky felt the need to censor it in a replay. It’s not the first time we’ve seen drivers make such gestures (though it’s been a good few years) and broadcasters have never seen the need to blockify it before.

      1. Tim says:

        broadcasters have never seen the need to blockify it before…

        Is that the same as censorising? :-)

      2. It’s a specific method of censoring…

      3. Tim says:

        Are you sure you didn’t just invent it? :-)

    6. Joe S says:

      I think that was Mark’s version of the “Vettel Victory” finger!

  4. James Noble says:

    James, do you think Sebs actions today will impact on Webbers future in Formula one. Now in his mid-30′s, Mark probably has little options to stay competitive outside of Red Bull.

    1. Iker Gernika says:

      What about Ferrari, Massa is useless, he only can fight against his own team mate… better than last year, but useless anyway

    2. W Johnson says:

      Webber has seen the writing on the wall for a number of years at Redbull. It now seems that he had the option to go to Ferrari and perhaps he should have taken it but I guess he would have been the unfavoured, “supporting no 2″ driver behind Alonso. I guess he seen as a great team driver, not the same light as those with the killer selfish instinct as Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel that makes them winners!

      1. Simon Donald says:

        As opposed to the unfavoured number 2 at Red Bull?? I loved Mark’s not so subtle dig at Helmut Marko when he said he be supported as per usual!

  5. Laurence H says:

    WOW!

    It’s my understanding that the teams can keep any of their radio transmissions private if they want. Why, then, did Red Bull and Mercedes allow all the team order stuff to go out? Great for us, but a PR own goal as it gives the press all the info they need to start raking muck straight after the race. Easier to put a spin on what happened if the press are speculating on who said what to who.

    Anyway, as I said, great for us watching! It’s going to be a long three weeks…

    1. Kay says:

      “It’s my understanding that the teams can keep any of their radio transmissions private if they want.”

      That’s not the case since some seasons ago.

    2. Simmo says:

      Well, as I understand it, the FIA get all radio messages, and can supply some to FOM, or something like that.

    3. IJW says:

      It’s my understanding, that all messages are in the clear. The FOM decides what it actually broadcasts on the TV (which is probably all the juicy stuff!).

    4. No the teams can’t keep their transmissions private. Why, as you say, would they let them go out if they had the choice?

      1. jorge says:

        I’ve read somewhere that teams use severe badmouthing to keep some transmissions from reaching the public.

        Would that keep teams unable to spy each other?

      2. AJ says:

        From what I’ve read, if the team wants to keep a radio transmission private, they just make sure to drop an f-bomb so it’s unfit for broadcast.

    5. Helenka says:

      Teams supply all the feed to FOM who then decide what is aired. They do indeed air all the juicy stuff but not anything with swear words, which is what some drivers do to stop it being aired out, or in the case of alonso speak in Italian/ Spanish so no one understands

  6. blackmamba says:

    I applaud Mercedes for getting their priorities right. Last year the team was very mediocre and already Lewis has brought them valuable points and are actually fighting for race victories with the Bulls no less. Just his presence has raised morale, enthusiasm and motivation which naturally brings out performance in everybody. Most people would put their money on Lewis having the best chance of moving up the table championship wise so it makes sense to keep him ahead of Nico, tough as it may be on him.

    1. Cliff says:

      Understand some of your thinking, but how does making Nico Rosberg hold position after only two races raise his morale or that of his mechanics, and where is his motivation? For the first time since 2010 Mercedes appear to have built a competitive car, surely Nico Rosberg deserves the chance to show what he can do?

      1. MelB says:

        Well said.

      2. Sami says:

        I am a stubborn Lewis fan, but you are absolutely right, Nico deserved the podium. Honour to Lewis for his statements after the race.

      3. shankar says:

        +1

      4. Wade Parmino says:

        It’s not as if they told him to let Hamilton past. He was simply to hold position.

      5. Schumilewis says:

        I think Mercedes were worried that Hamilton would defend they way he always does and lose 3rd & 4th. Vettel knew Webber wouldn’t defend robustly enough to scare Vettel off.

      6. Timmay says:

        It is no more competitive than the car which won the Chinese GP – and I still expect them to slide down the championship table with focus on 2014 as the excuse.

      7. Aey says:

        I am Lewis fan, but Nico had already shown to the world what he can do, even he wasn’t allowed to pass on track.

        at this race everyone know who is obviously faster.

      8. hero_was_senna says:

        You forgotten how Mercedes started last season?
        Rosberg qualified on pole and won the Chinese GP and MSC would have started on pole in Monaco?

        It’s their development that is in question.

      9. Grant H says:

        Agree cliff, nico was faster, merc should have told ham to move over, nice to see Lewis humble after race

      10. Quercus says:

        From what was said by Ross Brawn, it appears both the Mercedes cars were under-fuelled. If he had not told them both to back off, they would have fought it out and one or other might not have had enough fuel left to supply the required amount to the scrutineers following the race.

        What Lewis and Nico did was very mature; a statement that some might interpret as a dig at another driver.

      11. Jake says:

        Here is a theory for you:
        Ross to Lewis
        Lewis, go put some pressure on the Red Bulls, see what happens.
        Lewis to Ross
        Love to do that Ross but I don’t have the pace of the Red Bull and I could end up low on fuel if I have to turn up the engine performance.
        Ross to Lewis
        Don’t worry Lewis we have 3 and 4 in the bag, there is no serious challenge from behind and we may be able to pressure one of the Red Bulls into a mistake, tyre degradation or even mechanical failure. We have nothing to lose and could gain a place.
        Lewis to Ross
        Ok Ross if you say so but won’t that leave me open to attack from Nico?
        Ross to Lewis
        Do I look like CH I am team boss and I call the shots Nico will not be allowed to take advantage.

    2. **Paul** says:

      Whilst I agree Lewis has raised moral, so has Lauda, Wolf and co. the biggest boost though is that the car designed prior to Lewis arriving is pretty darn good.

      Todays actions though was no better than Red Bull or Ferrari holding their faster car back because they prefer the other driver. F1 is a team sport, but to call team orders on race 2 of the season? That’s pretty crap and I can only assume Lewis has some sort of clause in his contract, hence he felt pretty rubbish on the podium for calling on it so early in the season. He’s a winner though, like Vettel and they along with Alonso will do all they can to win. Sorry Nico, today proved you’re a number 2, don’t expect that favour back…ever!

    3. Vantro says:

      What we saw between the Mercedes drivers was the ugly ugly face of formula1. One thing is to decide no racing between team mates after the last pit stop, I do not particulary like that. It is however much uglier when someone is denied to pass his team mate when they was not racing. Lewis was not competitive at that point and he was not racing Nico. This was extremely ugly.

      A totally different situation between the Red Bulls drivers they was both competitive and if they had an prerace agreement was Vettels behaviour not acceptable.

    4. gudien says:

      How many ‘favors’ does Lewis need?

      At McLaren the CEO, Ron Dennis gave Lewis preferential treatment vs. Alonso and Kovalainen.

      Bernie Eccleston attempting to arrange transfer to Red Bull for Lewis.

      Now at Merc the Team Principal, Ross Brawn won’t allow Lewis’ teammate to pass.

      Senna never needed this kind of help!!!!!!

      1. Chris Chong says:

        Senna had God behind him, apparently.

      2. Cos says:

        @ gudien …so what you are telling me is; you find a talented child, nurter him, invest in him so that he becomes a star driver and then call it all doing ‘him’ a favour?? like you won’t be getting anything out of the deal

        Regarding the most recent ‘favour’ I think you may be missing the bigger pictre – that being, if the two Mercedes were allowed to race to the end, one would have less fuel (probably Hamilton) for the end of race inspection / or might stop on track…this would end up with the Team being penalised by fines and penalties for the next race and probably Mercedes losing curcial points in the Constructors Championship.

        Oh and before you start making references to Hamilton not being able to judge his fuel load…Merc didn’t plan for this kind of race – i.e. being in a position to chase down the Red Bulls in the closing stages…this is where he burnt most of his fuel…with Nico chasing Lewis down, Nico may have been running a bit low too.

        True Senna never needed this kind of help, but that was a different era and team orders were still being used

    5. hero_was_senna says:

      Poor Aldo Costa, and the rest of the tech team. It was Lewis that makes the difference..

      1. Elie says:

        In his defence Lewis was nothing short of praises for the team for giving him a good car. Whereas certain others whine about a bad car even when their in podium– & you know who I mean don’t you

  7. Peter says:

    I like Webber, but I hate team orders. Let them RACE, I do not care if the tires or the engine break down I do not want to see cars proceedings in an order for the last ten laps. The race between Mark and Seb was actually quite good. Also its shame Nico was not allowed to overtake, if Hamilton fuel was short its his problem, let Nico finish on the podium.

    1. Craig D says:

      Yes, it’s great for us but teams can’t take such liberties with millions of pounds at stake.

    2. Kay says:

      Had they raced, then Webber would’ve still won because he was racing until he was ordered to turn down the engine.

      So either way, Webber’s robbed by Vettel.

    3. Wayne says:

      Teams invest 300 million dollars in a season of F1 and you want them to sacrifice that investment for….what? The team actually gets a huge amount of money for the Constructors championship and you want them to risk that for what…….?

      F1 is a TEAM sport, it’s such a simple concept that fans of other sports can easily comprehend – why is it so difficult for F1 fans to get their head around?

      No team should go into a season favouring one driver but at the end of a race or at a certain point in the season it makes nothing but good sense to back the leader or protect their points haul. They race every other driver on the circuit, that’s plenty of racing in every GP. The idea that team orders spoils F1 does not make sense.

      1. Kimi4WDC says:

        This kind of racing wont make any headlines. Do you want to go back and rethink how much did F1 brand rose due to rivalries went all out?

    4. Anne says:

      Team orders will always be around one or another.

    5. Richard says:

      They were both low on fuel through aggressive fuel strategy, but Lewis did more in the race so I expect his fuel situation to be more critical than Nico’s. From the teams perspective they did the right thing, and the drivers obeyed which is a far better result than either or both of them not having enough fuel to get through the FIA test at the end.

      1. John says:

        Did more? How was that? Nico overtook people and held onto Hamilton quite easily with a lean fuel mix, so no Nico did more and Nico was faster, but I suspect he’s been shattered by this.

      2. Richard says:

        Nico was overtaken by Button at the start. Hamilton drove quite an aggressive race in the early keeping up with the Bulls and challenging them, but he was put into fuel saving mode quite early on and then could do little more. Rosberg drove a more controlled race and was able to keep up because Hamilton was fuel saving. Ross Brawn did exactly the right thing because both cars were running out of fuel and had they raced to the end would have most likely failed the FIA test. One can understand Rosberg’s emotions but in the current formula it’s not always possible. Gary Anderson also confirmed that Ross had done the right thing if you listened properly. Rosberg will have his chances in the future races and he understood eventually the team orders were in place, and all credit to him for obeying which is more than I can say for that lousy sportsman Vettel.

    6. [MISTER] says:

      “Let them RACE, I do not care if the tires or the engine break down I do not want to see cars proceedings in an order for the last ten laps.”

      It’s not you who pays the bills, is it?

      1. shankar says:

        I think our cable cost and ticket cost that pays their bill. doesn’t it? so shouldn’t the sport do justice to the fans money?

        overtaking artificially with unrealistically degrading pirellies and DRS and now blatant team orders don’t make it very exciting. does it. this is not F1. NASCAR and V8′s produce better races.

        I defenitely would love team work when clearly one driver is out of contention for the championship, but not what is happening for massa’s, rosberg’s and webber’s now, making them number 2 right from the start. i really dont know how can these guys accept it and do it at all.

      2. Anne says:

        No team wants a broken engine. Remember that they have a limited number of engines they can use. If they break that rule they get a penalty

      3. Those who watch on Pay TV actually do fund the teams, so you never know.

        Spectators on the ground only fund the circuit and FOM.

        That said, team orders have always been, being disguised with.more or less tact, up until 2010.

        Letting them race when they are on different technical strategy makes no sense either, and that’s .of racing either.

      4. BadMoles says:

        Actually, yes he does pay the bills – in a roundabout sort of way.

        Without viewers like us there would be no sponsors, without sponsors there would be no money, without money there is no teams.

      5. roryfireplace says:

        right on Charlie Brown!! :)

      6. John says:

        Well Mister, I agree with you. Let them race and whoever wins wins. If it would be so there would be no situation between Mark and Seb. Not that I care about either one of them or RB.

      7. [MISTER] says:

        I think you misunderstood my comment.
        I was quoting Peter.

    7. Aey says:

      You don’t care, but the team care.

    8. Jonathan says:

      it would seem you can only think one race at a time. What you suggest is fine for one race but in order to put a championship bid together the teams and drivers have to remember that an engine may have to be used for 3 races. If they race to the bitter end … they would only enter 8 races!

      Here’s hoping Vettel’s red mist comes back to haunt him!

  8. Sasa says:

    One of the most sickening race in recent history.
    Would Seb have gotten so close to Mark after the final pit stop if they decided to pit Mark first?
    I supposed they pitted Seb first to ensure that he finished ahead of Lewis, which is why I think in exchange for that, RBR wanted them to stay in their positions.

    As for Mercedes, I guess they wanted to make up for the team’s mistake for un-fueling Lewis’ car.

    1. Sebee says:

      They put Seb on slicks too early. Once people cool off they will realize this was the correct outcome.

      1. Danny Almonte says:

        Sob used up all his inters in qualifying. He had no choice. Try again.

      2. Wayne says:

        Correct outcome for who? Certainly not for the team, and F1 is a TEAM sport. The team get the same points whatever way round they finish – only now they have a situation were neither driver has the trust on the other to honour agreements so how do they react next time?. 42 points were risked today for the sake of ego by a kid who has no respect or honour. These two drivers had an agreement, they said as much, that should not be overlooked just because these men happen to be F1 drivers.

      3. Sebee says:

        Exactly. They got their 43 points. So what’s the problem?

        Can I put this into perspective for you? Vettel is going for 4th in a row. Historic stuff. If Webber’s feelings get hurt, so be it. 4th is the goal. When Webber is going for 4th he’ll have my support.

        And as I told you, why are you so upset about this?

        First Lewis would have won if they crashed out.

        Second, we got action and drama.

        Third, nothing illegal or against the rules happened.

        Fourth, Vettel is known to race to the end and set fastest laps end of race.

        Fifth, how gullible is Mark to think Vettel was going to back off on faster tires after the stunts he pulled on Vettel.

        He’s just sore because he’s been had. Nothing against the rules happened here. I have a new conspiracy theory. #30 in latest post. :-)

      4. Phil says:

        Did they? Or was that Seb’s decision, thinking he’d ensure he stayed out in front?

      5. Miha Bevc says:

        I think it was Vettel’s decision to pit too early. He’s been told over the radio that they are ready whenever he thinks he is ready to take the slicks. He had bad pitstop timings today (except for the last pit stop).

        But don’t get me wrong, I like the outcome!

      6. Cliff says:

        But if you remember, Rocky left the decision so Seb.

      7. I think it’s Roque, Guillaume Roquelin’s nickname.

      8. Doug says:

        I wonder if you’ll have the same opinion if Mark drives Seb of the circuit in China?

        I thought the driver of the day was JB…really making the most of a much improved McLaren…he could have been 3rd/4th or 5th depending on how much Merc. had slowed due to their low fuel.

        Back to the Bulls, I do think Horner should have got on the radio & said “If you don’t let Mark re-take you…you’ll be sitting out China”!
        I have no preference either way for Mark or Seb…but the team makes the calls…the drivers should listen.

      9. HRC says:

        Well, I guess we will find out who runs the team – Christian or Sebastion.

      10. Wade Parmino says:

        Absolutely right!

      11. Andrew M says:

        Horner comes across as pretty toothless in all of this. “Seb, this is silly, come on” sounds like something I might say to my 3 year old nephew, not a disobedient employee.

      12. Aey says:

        Seb just can’t accept when he is behind Mark. He just want to show who is the boss.

      13. Andrew Carter says:

        +1

      14. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Lol , sure. Sit out the driver who has delivered the most pts, wins, poles for the team since he started there in 2009. Without Vettel, all mark would not have win the titles. Fernando, Jenson, Fernando would have won. Horner knows that. RBR wouldn’t dare.

      15. Dragster says:

        @Doug, the pit-stop stuffed up JB too but yeah a good drive by him.

      16. Max Smoot says:

        What does Dietrich Mateschitz think about this ‘sporting’ blunder?

      17. Basil says:

        Seb is a little egomaniac without honour!

      18. Simon Donald says:

        He kind of flew under the radar a bit, but I was very impressed with Button. Considering where this car was a week ago here he was comfortably ahead of Massa and not a million miles behind Mercedes. If I was the top teams this would really have made me sit up and take notice. It looks like McLaren are starting to get to grips with this car much faster than I thought they would. We obviously need more races to see if this is what is actually happening or if its just a flash in the pan. If it is a true representation of where they are I don’t think it’ll be long until they are fighting for poles and wins.

      19. Sebee says:

        Let’s be clear here.

        If anyone Seb or Mark drive the other or crash into the other – any contact for any reason, then I stay silent about being given a race ban. In fact I think FIA will take that step, so RBR won’t even have to.

        Otherwise, any moves on the track within the rules are fair game. One thing is for sure, there won’t be any engines being turned down.

      20. Peter says:

        I think you will find that it is the driver that makes this decision, not the team. So it was Seb’s decision to come in on that lap. (hence radio message when they ask him to tell them when it is OK for dry tyres)

      21. PB says:

        I’m not so sure..in an instance where the likes of Horner and even Marko not yet finding many kind words to defend their golden boy, I can’t see this happening.
        It’s not often that we see dark sides of people, and this was a stupid, selfish act – not much to praise the petulant kid.

    2. Harry says:

      Did Merc under fuel Hamilton or did he just use more than Rosberg? Big difference.

      1. James Allen says:

        He used more fighting the Red Bulls. They were marginal from mid way in the race.

        It’s not much we’re talking about only a few kilos

      2. Tealeaf says:

        Yeah he used all his fuel in trying to look good but couldn’t even shake off Rosberg who was running lean but had the same pace or even faster, after the fuel was low Hamilton went crying to Ross because he knew Nico was coming through, a complete joke, we can all see Nico is the better driver now but he will lose on the record books, so what I always knew Hamilton was overrated.

      3. Andy says:

        So he was under fuelled. To say he used more fighting the Red Bulls is laughable. If you don’t have enough fuel to race fully then think again. If it’s only ‘a few kilos’, then why not put it in the tank. The advantage will be greater than the weight.

      4. John says:

        James I think Ross made a moral mistake there telling Nico to stay behind, also Vettel is a true champion.

      5. greg says:

        If Lewis used more fuel keeping pace with the redbull’s, then surely that’s his fault and not the teams? If its the teams fault, then surely they should of let rosberg past as they built him a dodgy gearbox for the last race?

        Todays race is proof team orders should be banned.

      6. Han says:

        How is ross asking his team to remain in place a moral mistake when vettel ignored the same orders from Rbr and took an underhanded victory when webber turned his engine down make him a true champion?

      7. Jake says:

        Tealeaf
        Did you watch the race with no sound?
        Lewis was told to chase the Red Bulls by the team; he was not trying to look good as you say. This was a strategy call from Ross to put some pressure on Red Bull and see what happens.
        Mercedes had nothing to lose from this and everything to gain. They had 3 and 4 and by putting pressure on the Bulls there was every chance a mistake by Vettel or Webber or even tyre or mechanical problems could have netted Mercedes 2 and 3. I do not think Ross thought the Mercedes was faster, and therefore it would have made no sense in a strait race situation to challenge, but rather he was hoping for a weakness. It did not play out but was worth the effort. If Ross had thought Nico could have challenged the Bulls he would have let him go. Would it have been fair to sacrifice Lewis after he did everything the team asked?
        Nico passed lewis on the track but Lewis immediately retook the position. Nico never made it stick. If Nico was really faster as you say he would have been the one chasing the Bulls with Lewis covering his rear. One thing is obvious and that is that Ross is calling the shots and the drivers are there for the team first and their own aspirations second.

      8. Bomber says:

        Tealeaf

        You always knew Hamilton was overated?

        You mean you don’t like him.

        Alonso rates him the fastest driver on the grid apart from himself.

        As for Mercedes they were allowed to race until the final pitstop which is normal for teams these days.

        Hamilton was ahead so he stayed ahead.

        Rosberg nice guy and great driver has plenty more races to prove any point he feels he has to prove.

    3. John says:

      No, they just wanted to say THANK YOU to Lewis after he stopped at the McLaren box but did not forget that he is actually a Mercedes driver.

  9. David Scutt says:

    Having sat across from the red bull pits during the race it was clear that Webber had more pace than Vettel, until the latter decided to take actions into his own hands that is. We learnt a lot about him as a person today. While the pro-vettel crowd cheered him on the podium, the true racing fans knew the truth of how he ‘earned’ it. Hollow victory of you can even call it a victory.

    1. Paul Devine says:

      Oh give us a break, I am a webber fan trhough and through, Vettel slaughtered him, hes a race driver. Mark doesnt give in unless he has to. Seb deserved that win. He is after all a race driver.

      What I really want is the full telemetry of all cars on public display. Was Mark really in need of conserving engine. How much fuel did Lewis really have?

      1. Carl Craven says:

        I guess Webber having been told in the past not to attack Vettel at later stages of races when he had more pace may have thought he was safe to follow team orders tune down his engine thus disadvantaging him to his team mate in terms of speed and thus allow him to close. The rest is history.

        Next time Webber is told not to attack Vettel, he has every right risking taking them both out of contention.

        I truly believe Vettel’s actions will come back to haunt him. It’s one thing pulling a fast one on your competitor another on your team mate.

        Consider this scenario.

        Final race of the year, Vettel needs a win to take WDC and for Alonso to finish no higher than P3. Alonso qualifies P3 Webber P2 and Vettel P1. Webber gains nothing from winning or even finishing the race as he has no contract for next year.

        Could you trust Webber to be there for you?

        A true competitor and a true winner would be considering ALL of his actions and not short sighted enough to believe that the present might not have any bearing on the future.

        This WILL come back to haunt Vettel and that will demonstrate a lack of holistic vision.

      2. MrNed says:

        Yeah, I was thinking something like that. Webber will get an opportunity to get his own back… I’m rather looking forward to it :-)

      3. Anne says:

        It´s not about just Seb it´s about the team. Horner gives an order and the driver doesn´t follow it. Vettel should respect authority

      4. DonSimón says:

        Exactly. I’ve always been an admirer of Vettel and never really taken Nico too seriously. Racing talent aside Nico got him on the undercut so to speak.

      5. M says:

        Was there really any proper order given to Seb?
        All that we heard on the team radio (be careful, it is silly…) just doesn’t sound like an order to me, too ambiguous, not like “maintain the gap” for example. It is more like the things they tell him, when he chases fastest laps at the end of a race. And we all(and the team) know exactly what happens then.

      6. Dave P says:

        Hmmmm.. You think Senna ever followed team orders? You think McLaren ordered him to crash into Prost? Yet somehow you no doubt think Senna was the best…..

      7. Scuderia McLaren says:

        So should Webber. Silverstone 2011, Brazil 2012.

        Webber set the behaviour, Vettel beat him at his own game.

        Game set and match, as they say.

      8. MrNed says:

        Vettel’s actions demonstrate complete lack of respect for the phenomenal team of people who are behind him. It is they – led by Christian Horner – who have provided Vettel with the best car on the grid for the last 3 years. Without this car Vettel would not be a 3x champ. Vettel owes Red Bull and Horner an awful lot more respect than he has shown today.

      9. Wade Ferrero says:

        No you don’t have to respect authority Anne, it’s quite weird when people write lines like that like it’s an invariable fact. What right does one group of human beings have to tell another human being not to follow his life passion? It’s corporatism that created this tension, RBR wanted to ensure maximum points for maximum money and take absolutely no risk to prevent that, even though it was at the detriment of competitive sport.

        Racing drivers don’t dream of F1 for the chance follow team orders, they dream of F1 to race for the win. You can’t have a sport that is both a team sport and an individual sport at the same time, those two things are incompatible, and things like this is what happens. Corporatism is at odds with sports, that’s the authority you are demanding respect for. Authority was in the wrong here, and Seb was right not to respect it today.

      10. Anne says:

        Wade, I´m afraid anarchy will take you or Vettel or a country to chaos. In school when your teacher tells you to do something you do it. In your work place if your boss tells you to do something you do it.

      11. Grant says:

        Paul, Webber was told to turn his engine down. What kind of a fight is that?
        You give us a break.

      12. Aey says:

        he is a racing driver but he just can’t do everything he want without listening to the team. he is racing driver, he is WDC, but he is still employee.

        team let them race each other, but every teams don’t like to let them fight each other.

      13. ricky says:

        in another era, if ron dennis told senna to hold position behind prost, does anybody here expects senna to obey?

      14. Bomber says:

        It’s a sad world where people excuse bad sportsmanship by giving an example of anothers bad sportsmanship.

        Schumacher being the worst example, ramming Hakkinen, hill and trying to with Villeneuve and spinning in qualifying at Monaco!

        Senna and Prost is a bad example they hated each other.

        I bet Senna would not have done what Vettel did to Gerhard Berger in only the 2nd race of the season.

      15. Arun says:

        @Ricky: Senna probably wouldn’t have. But I think Senna would have gone on the radio to say “Tell Prost that I’m still racing”.. Not the way Vettel did.

      16. Yak says:

        It’s not about if there was a “need” to conserve the engine. They had a clear 1-2 in the bag. If the team tell both drivers to back off to be safe with the tyres/fuel and to save the engine and gearbox and whatnot, the driver should listen.

        The driver might wish to disagree, but at the end of the day, it’s the guys on the wall and in the factory who have all the data, and have to worry about making their equipment last until the end of the season. Why would you want to stress the cars when you could have a clear 1-2 by just cruising?

    2. Sebee says:

      What’s next? Participation WDC trophies?

      Do you win WDCs by letting your #2 win races?

      1. Craig D says:

        But it wouldn’t have done them any good if they’d collided like in Turkey. If they thought they were racing then great, but that wasn’t the case.

        I would rather see them race to the end but disobeying your bosses is disrespectful and could come back to haunt you.

        As a viewer I’m glad the action happened but it wasn’t sporting, even though it is ironic to expect racing drivers not to race!

      2. ddt88 says:

        Who said Webber was number 2?

      3. Kay says:

        Good point.

      4. Sebee says:

        Mark did. When he won a GP and said, “Not bad for a #2″.

        He knows the score.

      5. Kay says:

        Might as well make it a one-driver team across the grid if #2s aren’t allowed to win.

      6. David says:

        Simple fix.. ONE CAR TEAMS!

        You wont have a problem, because there will be no number two or three to worry about. (Heard a rumor Ferrari wants three car teams!)

      7. Chooky says:

        RBR have been very clear in stating that they value both Mark & Vettel equally. Don’t you remember this?

        Webber is NOT a number 2 driver.
        Unfortunately he is paired with Vettel (who the press [& Marco] love but in spite of a large following, many diehard F1 fans do not like him).

        There was a team order in place – yes TO’s have been controversial BUT they’re legal.

        Fact is Vettel did not drive for his team at Malaysia.
        He put both RBR cars at risk of DNF (in closing laps) to satisfy his own arrogance.

        F1 is a team sport.

      8. Syd says:

        “Fact is Vettel did not drive for his team at Malaysia.
        He put both RBR cars at risk of DNF (in closing laps) to satisfy his own arrogance.”

        Spot on!

      9. Kit says:

        Agreed, Chooky.

        Some may have forgotten what happened in Turkey a couple of years ago when the two raced each other.
        From Horner’s point of view, that’s 43 points being risked by someone who decided not to listen to you, who thinks you are no longer in control of the team..

      10. Wayne says:

        Yes, if you let them win them all ;)

      11. PB says:

        To be fair on Red Bull , they did ‘almost’ everything fairly – except telling off Vettel and either ordering him to increase gap or after passing let Webber retake the lead. For crying out loud, they haven’t even defended Vettel yet!! Everyone including Rocky, Horner and Marko, and even Newey on the podium appeared embarrassed.
        For those claiming Vettel was faster and duly won the race, I think it’s just a way of saving some of Vettel’s dignity after this episode (if that’s possible) as whether Webber turned down his engine to save the car or because he HAD to, we’ll never really know. Going by what Red Bull have consistently and publicly maintained he did because he was asked to do so by the team, not because he had to. This looks even more likely as it’ll be very easy for the team to say he had a problem, etc. and save face and protect the favoured one.
        Some people in this forum just don’t seem to understand how much is too much and where to draw the line.

      12. PB says:

        Also for Webber doubters, Webber demonstrated today that he has matured after the last couple of years but Vettel hasn’t. Webber could have easily run wide on Turn 4 (or is it 5 where Vettel overtook finally) – either forcing Vettel out of the track or crashing into him taking them both out. But he didn’t!

    3. Harry says:

      The race gave me a chance to explain to my 8 year old son about character of a real man. I’m certain Mark did as instructed, its a crappy way for Vettel to win though. We have a pair of Seb’s gloves hanging in my son’s room…wonder how long they’ll stay there now.

    4. Mitchel says:

      +2010

    5. John says:

      Webber had more pace? That is the most funny thing I heard all day lol whats next? Hamilton also had more pace than Rosberg?

    6. Chris says:

      Whatever, I suppose Alonso is an angel in your eyes, with crash gate and costing Mclaren 100 million dollars – real honour there – saint even!! Hell he even expects team mates to roll out of the way, at least Vettel passed his!

      Win at all costs is the name of the game, a TRIPLE world champion understands this!!

    7. Bo Amato says:

      A certain Giles Villeneuve was killed in qualifying because of Didier Pironi’s similar antics in the Grand Prix before.

      Like to see Mark in competitive machinery for one year after he leaves red bull and he can put his mate seb in the wall.

      Vettel is a very good driver, but the team has treated Webber as a second class citizen since the arrival of the golden boy, much of it documented for you and I, do obviously it goes so much deeper!

      With the crooks involved in F1 I would not be surprised of so many bad starts by webber down to team fiddles with engine mapping, clutch and gear box tampering. etc. I I hope not! Best thing to happen for Webber and us fans is an immediate switch of MASSA for WEBBER. That would make the rest of 2013 outstanding!

  10. Jock Ulah says:

    Not Sebastian Pedal-to-the-Vetal’s fault -

    Obviously they’re force-feeding him that caffeine concoction of theirs prior to the race to keep him sharp. Webber pours his prescription in the petrol tank when they’re not looking.

    At least it’s not as bad as the stuff the studios fed to child actors in Hollywood in the old days.

  11. Rockie says:

    This was Mark Webber behind Vettel in Silverstone 2011

    “I am not fine with it. No. That’s the answer to that,” the Australian said when asked if he understood the team’s decision.
    “If Fernando retires on the last lap we are battling for the victory so I was fine until the end. Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place. Seb was doing his best and I was doing my best.
    “I don’t want to crash with anyone, but that was it. I tried to do my best with the amount of conversation I had. One-way conversation obviously as I wasn’t talking too much back.
    “There was a lot of traffic coming to me, but I was still trying to do my best to pass the guy in front.”

    But today the only difference Vettel got true and its funny he says he turned his engine down that didnt look like that when he was defending his place also his Schumacheresque defence on the pit straight.
    Oh well on to China.

    1. Rach says:

      Yeah I agree. I think it is the support of the underdog. Everyone clearly thinks that Vettel is favoured so whatever Webber does is fair game. Obviously what Seb did today was out of line but as you point out how does it differ from Silverstone 2011? Or how about at Brazil last year when Webber was extremely harsh on Seb.

      The funny thing though is that when Schumacher did that chop on Barrichello everyone went crazy yet Webber’s move has been completely ignored because he had been wronged.

      1. Dave the Expat says:

        Take off the blinkers. Webber didn’t move towards the pit wall. he held his line on the right side of the track, and Vettel chose to dive under Webber.
        Look at the footage

      2. Rach says:

        Your telling me to take my blinkers off!! If your telling me webber held his line and didn’t squeeze Vettel into the pit wall then there is only one person with blinkers on!

        I don’t criticise webber for this as far as I’m concerned its racing. However what frustrates me is the double standards when analysing situations.

    2. Wayne says:

      Ahhh, but that WAS NOT the only difference was it? Not by a long way. People always try and present things to match their opinion.

      Why was it very different? Because in that race, unlike this one, there was no agreement between the drivers before the race. The team decided to pull that one on WEB with no warning. This time both drivers have admitted that they was an agreement between them BEFORE the race started. They knew what the situation was going into the race and both signed up for it.

      1. Mike J says:

        Great point, but please don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story !

    3. Sebastian says:

      Very true. In fact Webber comes off as quite the hypocrite… his comments after Silverstone was:

      “To manage it but then be told to hold position is something I wasn’t prepared to follow at the time. If I’d backed off and held the gap at three seconds, as I was asked to do, it would have been much more difficult for me to sleep after the race.
      http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93065/

      Webber whines which ever way the wind blows… if he had any character he would have said that it was fine because he would have done the same given the opportunity.

    4. **Paul** says:

      Lol great post and quote. Mark can’t have it both ways, he set a precedent that day. I also think the engine stuff is rubbish or Seb would have sailed past with DRS as well. Mark defended hard, so hard he almost put Vettel in the wall. Good hard racing.

    5. alexbookoo says:

      Wow. That’s a killer quote to pull out.

      But at least Webber didn’t say “I did get the message, but no action followed because I misunderstood.” Or “When I took off my helmet and saw that Mark didn’t look too happy I talked to him and he came straight to the point. That was when it struck me like lightning.”

      Or my personal favourite, the excuse he used on the podium, before he’d had time to think of something better: “It was very hot.”

      He should have been honest about it like Webber.

      It would be difficult to contrive a finishing order like today’s where nearly everyone is unhappy. You have to go down to Grojean in 6th and Hulkenburg in 8th to find anyone even moderately satisfied with their race.

    6. Scuderia McLaren says:

      Agree 100%

      Webber set the tone of RBR’s team orders disputes, not Vettel. Also Brazil 2012 don’t forget.

    7. Trent says:

      Webber battled Vettel for a while at Silverstone, the call came, and he backed off.

      You can’t defend Seb’s actions today. Even he’s not trying to.

    8. ed24f1 says:

      Bingo RE: Silverstone 2011, and people were praising Webber for that!

      I think that if this was in reverse, Webber would be treated with far less criticism than Vettel has been.

    9. marcus2 says:

      Yes but had Vettel turned his engine down?

      1. Rockie says:

        What is this with turned engine down BS did Mark look like he was driving with less power even with DRS Vettel couldnt get the job done.

  12. Denise says:

    I’m a fan of Vettel but the whole “I made a mistake” thing just doesn’t wash with me. Unless there is more to the story that hasn’t come out yet, it seems pretty disingenuous to say the absolute least. That being said though, I’m fairly certain that if it was Webber in Vettels position everyone would be cheering him for continuing to race, regardless of the orders.
    Silverstone 2011, anyone?
    What CH does about it now will be interesting, first time I can actually remember him or Newey showing (albeit not a lot) displeasure publically towards Vettel.

    1. Sebee says:

      What else could he say? He made a cold ruthless move – just how everyone likes it when Lewis would. Then he had to sugar coat it for the media.

    2. [MISTER] says:

      And people still wonder why Vettel is disliked so much. Hw was already throwing his toys out of the pram early in the race..
      I sense desperation from Vettel’s side already. Seeing he’s not got a car which is 1s faster than the oposition, he’s pretty desperate.

      Vettel and RBR will never be liked as much as Ferrari, Williams and McLaren. Never!

      1. danny11 says:

        Of course not! They are energy drink Company and not legendary F1 team like the one you have mentioned and they will never be. They should know that Newey will not live forever and from next season they will face a great challenge as costumer car with new engines coming in. Ferrari should definitely have an edge!

      2. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Given the resources, special FOM deals and FIA rule vetos Ferrari have enjoyed for some time, having had “the edge” does not translate to success does it.

        Last 2 WDC – 2007 Kimi, 2004 Michael.
        2 drivers titles in a decade of having the edge ain’t great is it.

      3. Chooky says:

        Agreed about the older, prestigious teams with long F1 histories, without question.

        An energy drink company yes. It cannot be overlooked however, that this energy drink co have won three consecutive DOUBLE WC’s.

        Pretty good going for a drink co don’t you think?

      4. Sugar Water says:

        +1

      5. John says:

        Vettel is disliked because mainly the english speaking fans are jealous of his talent and success, mainly the Hamilton brigade, its probably because you know as long as Seb is motivated, healthy and in F1 I doubt Hamilton will ever win the title again, mind you even Rosberg is quicker than Hamilton, shame he won’t be able to show it again.

      6. PB says:

        +1
        Certainly not, judging by the way they’re going.

      7. gudien says:

        You are assuming I like Ferrari. Ferrari are the most guilty of orchestrating ‘team orders’ for their benefit. Have you never heard of Schumacher vs. Irvine, Schumacher vs. Barrichello, Alonso vs. Massa?

        When it comes to sport Ferrari are bush league.

      8. Poyta says:

        +1!!!!

    3. Denise says:

      I’ve just watched the race again and I’ve come to the conclusion that Vettel had lost his temper when he couldn’t get past Mark, and then when he got out of the car was like “sh*t! What have i just done?!?” Right or wrong, you can almost understand it.

    4. chrisnz says:

      Agreed. It’s a lot easier to apologise once you are sitting in the middle seat of the press conference and with a healthy early lead in the championship.

    5. Grant H says:

      Agree what a joke, seb knew exactly what’s was asked and ignored

    6. David says:

      Vettel may hold three WDC but his actions were made even more untenable by the multiple attempts to lie his way out of it.

      He arrived at Parc Fermi to a subdued team and like a naughty boy he knew right then he had better come up with a story.

      Story #1 – I didn’t hear the call

      Like a child when your first excuse doesn’t get traction you makeup another one.

      Story #2 – I didn’t understand the call

      This went over even less so again Vettel’s inner child realising the jig was up

      Story # 3 – I did a bad thing but it’s too late to undo it. Wish I could.

      This shows how shallow and lacking in vision this boy is. He will be forever know as a world championship liar and not for the records he so desperately seeks.

      Final thought looking at the above, maybe Helmut Marko is helping too much the above defence I have heard in numerous court proceedings. ;-)

  13. Brian says:

    Red Bull should sideline Sebastian Vettle for China. Sends a message that no one is bigger than the team. His actions could have cost them 43 points. It also sends Mark Webber a good signal and with 19 races to go that’s going to be important.

    Give the one race seat to Daniel Ricciardo. That helps Red Bull test him in a decent car.. and as he’s an Aussie the irony wouldn’t be lost on Mark.

      1. Sebastian says:

        Yeah, give the ride to Yuji Ide!!!

    1. brendan says:

      well said i was thinking the same,vettel 3 times champion,webber may never be champion.(i wish he would do it this year).
      vettel has no respect for webber or the team.
      if i was webber i would of took vettel out,clipped his back wheel.
      webber last win was last year british gp,vettel
      knows webber only got a few seasons left,his took his chance of victory away, over the sake of 7 points, when there is 425 left to fight for.
      webber has helped vettel on more than a few occasions.
      maybe f1 should go down the motogp route and seperate the garages,have every man for himself.

      1. Ahmed says:

        Webber would never help Vettel willingly!

        He tried to race Vettel in Brazil last year when the championship was on the line, when team obviously told him not to.

        Webber ignored team orders in British GP 2011, when Vettel was in front. He tried to overtake and Vettel raced him, the only difference was Vettel got the job done, whilst Webber does what he’s good at, whinge and whine!

        Vettel was frustrated in the race, Webber got the undercut, and Vettel was being held up and this screwed up Vettels strategy as he in turn lost a place to Hamilton, and almost to Rosberg. He obviously wanted to prove that he was quicker, did it on track, no conspiracy theories!

        Thanks Seb for giving us real racing, not controlled rubbish like Ferrari or Mercedes.

      2. Yak says:

        Webber in Brazil raced hard to begin with, when Vettel was basically looked like he’d walk the WDC in. Later in the race when Vettel needed to make his way back through the field, Webber clearly let him just go straight through. The situations were different and Webber acted accordingly.

      3. John says:

        Youve got it wrong webber was not holding vettel up as team told him to look after tyres something vettel didnt seem to understand,you heard webber in post race interview saying there not racing at full pace due to tyre strategy

    2. AlexD says:

      Never said it towards anybody, but I hate Vettel after what he did. I hope he wins everything in his life that is there to be won, but spends his life lonely…win no firneds and nobody to really like him or care about him……

    3. Wilma the Great says:

      Well, I think, it would be a bit harsh to sideline Mark in China for almost sending Seb into the pit wall, he just didn’t want to give in on his position – that’s natural.

      But you’re right, it could have cost the team 43 points, so it would be a legitimate action.

    4. Simon Donald says:

      I agree completely but it will never happen!!

    5. Awesome Idea..

      But Christian Horner doesnt have the balls to do it.

  14. Sebee says:

    To: Mark
    From: Sebastian

    Hey Mark,

    Sorry mate.  It was an accident.  Anyhow, you need to understand I am going for 4 in a row, please see the biggee picture, Schumi’s records aren’t going to fall by playing nice.  Holding position would have cheates the fans out of a show as well.

    Cheers,
    Sebastian.

    P.S.  You think I will be DOTD?

    1. Sebastian says:

      Or maybe…

      Hey Mark,

      Learning from the man… Silverstone 2011.

      Yours sincerly,
      Sebastian

    2. Toothless says:

      To: Sebastian
      From: Mark

      Hey Seb,

      No worries Mate! I understand how much you like breaking records. Clearly the numbers today were worth more to you than anything else.

      Regards,
      Mark

      P.S.

      If DOTD means d*ck of the day, absolutely.

    3. Wilma the Great says:

      To: Seb
      From: Mark

      I, too want to break Schumis records. Today, I began by defending position like him. How was my driving? Call 1-800-NO-OVERTAKING-ME-WO-TEAM-PERMISSION

    4. rafa says:

      The team told both to turn engines down: one complied, the other didn´t and then ate away a 4 s lead… so that´s not an accident. I wrote earlier -in a comment waiting endless moderation- that i had nothing against what Seb did, but then realized the whole point: they where well in the lead, and where told to conserve engines for the future as the team had already attained a 1/2 finish. They could have “let them race” as many say here, but it comes at the expense of a future engine failure or racing incident, so the call was in order. So sorry, the super exciting race from Vettel you saw was in fact him overtaking a lame duck with les revs in the motor. He´s taken his chances, and I have nothing against it but:

      -Apologizing with that kinda didn´t mean it attitude is completely fake: you´re ambitious and ruthless, so don´t apologize for it, hold your hand up and show your true face; you asked a few weeks ago why there was so much dislike towards Vettel, that´s why: he likes playing the nice kid role who´s never broken a dish, and that really is not him.

      -I would like to see what you have to say now about team orders. RBR clearly give them and Seb has been benefiting from them more often than not. perhaps, your well known position on “poor Massa” should be reviewed hereafter.

      1. rafa says:

        Oh, and about DOTD I don´t think he will get it.

      2. Sebee says:

        I will tell you what it is rafa. I understand team orders. I know they make sense. I know they are needed.

        But every once in a while, I really really like it when they are not followed. Webber has done it. And Vettel has done it. I wish Massa would do it once or twice.

      3. Sebee says:

        Oh yeah. Mark is allowed to race Seb to a much highet degree than Massa was until just recently. That is what bug me. Sure, we know neither Mark or Massa will likely be backed for a WDC effort by their teams. But at least Mark is allowed to win by his team.

    5. Msta says:

      Yes Seb, you definitely are D$@!head Of The Day.

  15. Ben says:

    I can see this being the beginning of the end of Red Bull and Vettel’s relationship – although I do not necessarily mean to imply it will happen imminently. The way the team reacted, especially Newey but also, surprisingly, even Marko, suggests that Vettel’s actions today demonstrate he is now becoming bigger than the team.

    It’s inevitable – after three consecutive World Championships and a truck load of records – there is a tug of war as to who is responsible for most of the success, Vettel or the team.

    Vettel can point to the fact that since he turned up in the team they became the front runners, although Red Bull can point to the massive regulation change.

    However, the twist in the tale was how quickly Vettel apologised after the event. While an apology of sorts was inevitable the fact it came so quickly is probably a result of Vettel sensing the damage he had done to his relationship with the team and the acknowledgement that it is thanks to Red Bull he has been able to have such a massive success (that’s not to say without Red Bull he would have had none) – this could certainly salvage the relationship for a couple more seasons however whereas before this race it seemed that neither Red Bull or Vettel would want to part company for any reason other than fulfilling the supposed holy grail of being a Ferrari champion things have changed and there is now a clear ticking countdown clock on Vettel’s duration at Milton Keynes.

    The only question is how much time is on that clock.

    1. Dave C says:

      Vettel join Ferrari and show the world what you’re made of, Redbull are taking credits when its not deserved, as soon as he leaves you will see the team fade.

      1. Gate 21 says:

        You must be deluded if you think Ferrari will take Vettel now. Ferrari drivers follow team orders. Seb just flushed his chance at wearing red.

      2. Nige says:

        What? Do you know who Adrian Newey is?

      3. Anne says:

        Because Neweys has nothing to do with the car, hasn´t he?

      4. Wayne says:

        That’s a joke right? VET is the star and the Newey-RBR partnership are taking all the credit from him? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all weekend and don’t forget I have already listened to VET try and explain his lack of morals away which in itself was hysterical.

      5. Hal says:

        Wayne, check his other posts they are equally funny (i.e. delusional).

      6. Bomber says:

        Wayne

        Spot on!

      7. D@X says:

        Car Driver combo is a good one but I still feel Adrian is the main reason the team is able to adapt and change but still maintain a fast car. Well on the way to the top you are bound to break a few promises..Mark is in the firing line, all he needs is play the team game and beat the guy on the track, i do agree its a dirty trick especially if you agree to maintain position. The team gets paid on Constructors points and not driver credits, with the economy, you have to ensure you take all thats on the table and worry about the rest later.
        I remember Lewis asking his team in Turkey ” If I slow down, he’s not going to pass me, the team said yes, Button sensed an overtaking opportunity and went for it, but was beaten fair and square and took a seat behind Lewis. I dont think they ever got on after that. But it made button look like a mug. Webber and Vettle had just crashed. But today Lewis was told to slow down, Nico tried it and overtook Lewis but before you know it he was over taken again, Nico had to be reminded to take a seat. Its a Team game and if the boss decides no change because you can’t catch the from runners or there is no threat from the moving chicanes from the back then no point going home empty handed…constructors equals money and thats what they race for as a team.

        For those that can deal with the tension of team orders please switch to GP2, hot headed youngsters. Thrilling overtakes and some moves that are so mind boggling…as in what where you thinking.

      8. Gazz says:

        Oh my goodness, you should have been a politician. Lots of words which mean nothing to those who us who can see beyond our rose tinted glasses. I agree that JB got put in his place,, but only after LH retook him. Jenson save fuel, this is critical. Nico was by far the better driver today and any stupid meaningless apology or “humble” comment from Lewser will never fool those who see the truth. It would have made no difference to “team points” today if Mercedes had let the quicker driver through (Nico) to take what would have been a well deserved podium. Lewis was beaten today hands down and this will send him a couple of very strong messages. 1. Nico is faster than you 2. You wont be able to hide behind team orders forever 3. Glad you feel the need to emulate Jenson lol

      9. Doug says:

        That comment reminds me of a song….

        …oh yes…

        Daydream Believer! :-)

      10. absolude says:

        Alonso vetoed Vettel’s move to Ferrari.
        Unlike Vettel when Hamilton wanted to join RedBull.
        Big difference.

    2. Sebee says:

      Yes, as a team boss I would fire a 3X WDC for winning.

      What is going on here today? Seriously!

      1. Multi 21 says:

        That’s why you aren’t a team boss.

      2. Arun says:

        You got yourself a nice name there… Ha ha… :D

      3. Ben says:

        I did not say he would get fired. I was commenting on how this was the moment the Vettel / Red Bull relationship soured and they will grow apart from here on. Much like Lewis Hamilton started to grow apart from McLaren, a team everyone believed he would be at forever prior to LieGate.

    3. Quade says:

      Marko says he wouldn’t try to stop Vettel if he wants to leave. That was quite surprising, considering that Vettel is widely seen as Red Bulls golden goose.
      Vettels action today was swollen headed, but it would seem that Vettel has been testing the teams patience, it only came out in public today.

    4. hero_was_senna says:

      That thought crossed my mind today.
      In recent weeks, we have had Dieter say he wouldn’t stop Vettel leaving even with a contract in place.
      He understood exactly what the team had told him, yet believed that the team would support him like they did in Turkey 2010.
      It was obvious from Horner, Newey and Webber that that wasn’t the case. He proved he has no respect for any of them.
      Most interesting was Dr Marko’s garbled comments which didn’t back Vettel up at all.

      Who knows, maybe Vettel in 2014 is go after all.

  16. Matt says:

    There’s no way in a racing sense for Webber to get satisfaction – a gifted win won’t do it; so I suspect Seb might be washing Mark’s Porsche for the next few weeks.

    China will be -very- interesting.

    1. gudien says:

      Mark has a Porsche? Good for him. I like him better already.

      1. Jack Flash (Aust) says:

        Yes. A GT3.

    2. Scuderia McLaren says:

      Nah, won’t be any dramas in China. Webber has used 1 of his 2 great races per season he tends to have. He’ll be back mid pack again till maybe British GP.

  17. Gareth says:

    Interesting argument here but i wonder what would have happened if Webber overtook Vettel and did not listen to orders?
    Red Bull is clearly established as Vettels team, with Webber playing a reluctant number 2. The big difference is how Webber has responded. Coulthard, Barrichello and Irvine all kept their mouths shut, playing the PR game. Webber has not and it reaffirms my belief that he will leave the team this year. As for Vettel he has proved that he is in it for himself. If this was football and he was told to come off and refused he would probably be suspended. I will be watching developments on this very very closely.
    In regards to Hamilton and Roseberg, look at the expression on Rosbergs face in the picture above, he looks dejected and pretty furious, will he too have to play second fiddle to Hamilton? Mclaren have shown once again that they could not set up a toilet let alone a car and their pit stops mistakes from 2012 continue to happen in 2013 ( although all the teams seemed to be in meltdown). Alonso must have had brain fade or is Massa starting to pressure the Spaniard?

    1. Sebee says:

      What would happen is no new contract for following year. As he is on year to year.

      1. Gareth says:

        Never thought of that, what I can see is Ricardo being called up

    2. Rossco says:

      Where will Webber go? You seem to forget that whilst Vettel clearly did the wrong thing yesterday, he has had the pace of Webber for years now… both in qualifying and the raw pace during the race. Webber mostly messes up every start, this was the unusual case where he didn’t… He needs the car to be perfect for everything to go right.

      Where is Webber going to go? He has said that he would leave F1 if he couldn’t go to a competitive car and team… Doesn’t leave many options open as clearly Red Bull have been the fastest for some time.

      As far as Hamilton and Rosberg goes? He’s outqualified Rosberg in both races, finished above him in Melbourne (even though Rosberg retired but didnt have the pace)… Hamilton and Alonso the fastest drivers in F1, if I was team boss, I’d want a return on my 30 million pound investment that’s for sure.

      1. Gareth says:

        Yes but as Brawn said “there is no number 1 at Mercedes”, Rosberg may think after Brawns history with Irvine and Barrichello if this is the case.
        As for Webber, take my money head of home, or wait until a vacant seat comes up at Lotus or Ferrari.

  18. AuraF1 says:

    Bizarre – team orders that normally rob the fans of wheel to wheel action ironically engineered the best wheel to wheel fight for years! Of course it does mean having a driver disobey.

    The sad thing is when they do obey like Rosberg we lose another brutal fight.

    Sad for Jenson too – getting that poor car into solid points only for the wheel nut gremlins to return. Metaphor of the wheels coming off his race can be used again.

    1. Sebee says:

      People hate to admit it, but Vettel played it right. Only Mark looses out. On a scale 4th WDC in a riw and fan entertainment are more important that a win for Mark.

      1. Multi 21 says:

        “People hate to admit it, but Vettel played it right.” Sure. That is why no one in the team is defending him. Even Horner has given him a whack in the media. Seb has even had to grovel a half-baked public apology to MW.

        You know what happens when drivers throw sportsmanship out the window by ignoring team orders in search of personal glory with no regards to the collective effort of the team? They become Didier Pironi.

  19. Schumilewis says:

    Hi James, Do you think Mark should be a bit more “robust” in the future if Vettel tries to overtake him? I think if it were the other way round Seb would have no hesitation in running Mark off the track, this will lay a marker down to Seb.
    Also do you think Horner needs to be clearer with team orders to Seb ( I don’t think I heard him tell Seb not to overtake )? I think Ross Brawn made his orders clear and handled the situation brilliantly. Nico proved he is a clever and mature driver and I think Lewis will obey orders if the tables are turned.

    1. Dave C says:

      You think Hamilton will obey if it’s the other way round? I doubt that, and that Hamilton fans wouldn’t be happy about it, amazing how they are all silent about the situation, Nico is the faster driver yet in 2 races he’s been treated awfully bad, funny how he lost a gearbox, funny how he’s always faster yet get stunned in the final parts of Q3, Vettel please join Ferrari and show what Redbull is missing, also Nico join Redbull and leave this farce of a setup at Mercedes.

      1. Harry says:

        If Hamilton is Merc’s contractual No.1 (Martin Brundle speculated he was), then Rosberg has to deal with it or leave.

      2. Anne says:

        I´m not so sure. Lewis was dead honest about the situation during the podium interview.

      3. Cliff says:

        Agree, If Lewis Hamilton felt that Nico should have been on the podium, letting him pass would not have been difficult, especially as there was no danger from behind. Having listened to Vettel say “Mark should have won today”, I’m left thinking why, if you felt that way, did you ignore team orders, or better still, just give the place back? In both cases I would suggest that the points were the priority. As for the fall-out, we can deal with that after the race!

      4. John says:

        Yeah so honest and heart warming, he felt Rosberg was robbed, he thought Rosberg was the one that should have stood on that podium…..
        Ok so if he believed all that why didn’t he just let Rosberg through?

      5. Matt says:

        But he was still standing there. He could _easily_ have moved over to let Nico pass. What he was struggling with was the first taste of the bitter sweet taste of ‘victory’ that resulted from the off-season deal that’s clearly been done rather that out-racing Nico.

        Team orders rankle everyone because we think (naturally) that it’s about maximizing speed and balancing that against tyre wear/fuel use for 100% of the race; actually it’s about 80% of the race, at which point team orders come into play, and we hold station. What sucks is the team doesn’t communicate when that cutoff point will be to the public prior to the race.
        Nico clearly would have finished 20s ahead of Lewis in a 100% race, and Lewis knew it. His turkey was well cooked (that last time through turn 1-2 was shopping centre pace): his victory over his team mate completely arbitrary.
        It’s hard to say if Webber could have raced Seb to the end given they were conserving tyres; obviously neither of them pushed their tyres to 100% of race distance: if they had, perhaps Matk’s harder tyres would have seen him back past Seb’s older, softer set in the last laps: but Mark, and eventually Seb both backed off, so again, an arbitrary race length.

      6. Schumilewis says:

        I’m sorry to say, but your idea that somehow Mercedes fix qualifying and races is absurd and lacks any real knowledge of F1! How could they slow either driver whilst both are on qualifying laps simultaneously?
        I am a Hamilton fan but I have always thought he would find Rosberg a tough nut to crack. I think Hamilton would obey team orders if the situation was the same as today.
        As for Vettel against Alonso, this is something all real F1 fans want to see and then we’ll see if Vettel is as good as his career to date would suggest.

      7. Yup I hear what your saying… Mercedes *definitely* gave Rosberg a faulty gearbox so he wouldn’t trouble Hamilton in the first race of the season… give me a break!

        Not to mention that in Aus, Hamilton was pulling *away* from Rosberg.

      8. John says:

        Pulling away at melbourne? Well the 3 laps leading up to Rosberg retiring he was over 6sec behind Hamilton, and when he retired he was only 4sec behind, you do the maths was Hamilton pulling away? And IQ test is in order, Nico has been faster, now he’s not allowed to race, it’ll only hurt Mercedes.

      9. Paige says:

        Dave,

        Hamilton has beat Rosberg in two qualifying sessions and two races. Hamilton was in a position to win today before he was instructed by his team after overtaking Vettel on pit stops that he had to save fuel. That’s the only thing that allowed Rosberg to get close to Hamilton. It had nothing to do with the skills of the drivers.

        Rosberg did do a nice job today, though.

      10. Quade says:

        I saw the mercedes mechanic taking a wacking ‘ammer to Rosbergs gear box and heard Ross Brawn ordering him to go slower in Q3 (Oz and Sepang). Merc techies also put rats in his electrics (to fry em up real good) at Melbourne.

      11. Nigel says:

        It seems pretty clear that he would, from his interview today:

        “Nico deserved to be where I am. With the position in the championship the team thought it was logical to stay in position, but Nico drove a smarter and more controlled race than me today.

        “Would I let him past in the future? I probably would.”

      12. Helenka says:

        Yes of course Mercedes are going to wreck rosbergs gearbox……. Why would try do that? At the end of the day the teams first priority is the constructors championship where the money comes from. but they wouldn’t do too good if the second car kept on not finishing because the team sabotaged it, particularly when you up against the other teams with two cars regularly in the top couple of placings. The second priority is the drivers championship, which is why Braun decided to take the good points away from today as they weren’t going to challenge the redbull a, rather than risk both cars crashing out due to drivers pushing for the sake of their egos

    2. Lol says:

      More robust? He practically pushed Vettel against the wall like Schumi did to Rubi.

      He should just take it like he expected Vettel to take it SIlverstone 2011.

    3. Spinodontosaurus says:

      I don’t think either Webber or Vettel could have been any more robust without resorting to Touring Car ‘racing’.

      When Vettel eventually got past, it was because Webber was parking on the apex of T4 to stop Vettel cutting back on him, which Vettel read and acted accordingly.

    4. Yak says:

      We don’t necessarily hear all the radio transmissions. Horner might very well have stated it very clearly to Vettel earlier, but we didn’t get to hear it. From what I gather, they’d also discussed beforehand what would happen in the event of them leading an easy 1-2 to the end.

      We heard more from Rosberg/Brawn, but it doesn’t necessarily mean we heard everything that went on between them either.

    5. Jake says:

      It is not so much a team order as a standing agreement. CH does not have to tell Seb, Seb knows the arrangement and deliberately broke it.
      It was not so much that Lewis could have let Nico past more that Lewis could not have resisted if Nico had decided to ignore the team order. Lewis is a racing driver it was clear from his demeanour on the podium that he did not think he should have been there on merit.

  20. Jacob says:

    James is there any merit to the rumours of Mark looking for a 2014 drive with Lotus?

    1. MJSib says:

      Would this be a straight swap with Kimi going to Red Bull? Then let’s see what Vettel is made of going against Kimi!

      1. Grant says:

        Yea… Let Kimi go to Redbull, and put Vettel in his place.

  21. McLaren78 says:

    “…with some saying that this is the kind of determination you need to be a multiple World Champion and be ranked amongst the greats.” Seriously? Your team-mate turns the engine down as told by the team, runs on a harder tyre compound, is reassured by team they’ll both hold positions, and then you ignore all, pass him, and that’s a trait of a ‘great’? No, that’s a trait of someone who has the team wrapped around him and knows he can get away with anything.

    1. Sebee says:

      Would you rather they radio a message for Mark to move over? That was an option. Would you like it more as an F1 fan?

      1. Bomber says:

        seebee

        I am a sportsfan as well as an F1 fan and what Vettel did stinks.#

        It may have been exciting when watching it but when you find out the true facts afterwards it leaves a very sour taste in the mouth as you realise Webber was jumped/mugged by Vettel.

        He has demeaned himself.

        He had 10 laps or so to think about what he had done and did nothing to put it right.

        He only apologises when he realises how angry the team are.

    2. Aaron Noronha says:

      Hey buddy dont even for a second believe he turned his engine down. Mark could see the move coming in his mirrors and he even tried to block by running vettel against the pit wall(a move for which Micheal Schmacher was given a penalty against Rubens). IF his engine was really turned down Vettel would have completed the move down the straight before the corner. If Vettels engine was indeed running higher revs to Marks’ with the aid of DIR, Vettel would have been more than a cars length in front before braking for the corner. In fact it took Vettel 3 or 4 more corners to complete the overtake. That without a doubt proves that Vettel was pushing Webber right from the pitstop to the conclusion of that move. It takes a fraction of a second to turn the engine back up and by the way Mark was defending his line and having his eyes in the mirror on the straight i can bet that the engine was running to the max.

      Btw did you read the above comment
      This was Mark Webber behind Vettel in Silverstone 2011

      “I am not fine with it. No. That’s the answer to that,” the Australian said when asked if he understood the team’s decision.
      “If Fernando retires on the last lap we are battling for the victory so I was fine until the end. Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place. Seb was doing his best and I was doing my best.
      “I don’t want to crash with anyone, but that was it. I tried to do my best with the amount of conversation I had. One-way conversation obviously as I wasn’t talking too much back.
      “There was a lot of traffic coming to me, but I was still trying to do my best to pass the guy in front.”

      Vettel did what Webber couldnt do in silverstone he made the moves stick and overtook him.

      1. McLaren78 says:

        I’m talking about Vettel and all this stuff about ’3 world titles’, ‘one of the greats’, ‘on of the top 10 ever’, etc. Not talking about Webber mate.

      2. Aaron Noronha says:

        Check out all the rest in that list, they have done something similar that makes them multiple champions. He just joined an illustrated list of people. Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher, Alonzo(remember him blocking Hamilton during qualification when they were team mates) and many more.

    3. Chooky says:

      Exactly!

      Thank goodness some have insight.
      I do hope this will change the dynamic throughout RBR (from the top). Vettel may be a good driver but how about being a team player?

      The boy needs discipline.

      1. shankar says:

        +1!!!!
        Tired of hearing ruthless wins championships and records.

        i think hakkinen, raikonen etc. have more real racing fans.

    4. Timmay says:

      That is the best summary of what happened at Sepang. I didn’t think Vettel could go any lower is my books, but she found a way.

    5. I know says:

      You clearly did not see the race. Webber had not turned the engine down by the time Vettel made his pass stick – Webber (and Vettel) had both set their fastest laps of the race at that point, and they had been racing wheel to wheel for over a lap. Vettel clearly put his own interest over those of the team, but it was a fair fight.

    6. John says:

      Horner confirmed they were both on the same engine setting you’re clutching at straw.

    7. Matt says:

      …and in the laps immediately after the “move Mark over, he’s too slow” message, Mark pulled out a couple of seconds; Seb couldn’t go with him, and wound up with Lewis for company.

      Petulant.

    8. Max Smoot says:

      Horner must be wondering who really runs his team.

      1. God knows he doesnt.

        Its no longer RBR its SVR

  22. Mr Squiggle says:

    RedBull management need to assert their authority here:

    1) Vettel should be stood down by RB for one race. He needs to be reminded of what has got him three world campoinships.

    Don’t turn up to Shanghai, Seb. RB should run one a TR driver in his place.

    2) Mark should be told to forfeit all of his earnings for this race. Standing on the podium at an F1 race is an honour, not a political platform and he should not have said what he said about internal team decisions.

    At the moment this whole sport is about managing tyres, engines, fuel loades etc. its more of a team sport than ever

    Seb needs to be put back in his box. Webber needs to be encouraged to stay in his.

    The race? o I loved it.

    1. Xbox 720 says:

      Stood down? are you for real? you stand Vettel down for a race they lose the drivers title, Seb has done more for the team than Webber could ever do, if it was the other way round there would be an uproar, you can discredit Seb all you like but face it he’s better than Mark and he’s better than Hamilton, mind you even Nico is better than Hmailton.

      1. cos says:

        @ xbox720 …are you for real? You think losing the WDC is the only reason they won’t ask Seb to forgoe racing in China….I think the real reason is that they will lose points in the Constructors Championship…hence the whole team orders thing. Also, lets not forget he may be able to drive the car, but its well known in the pit lane that the RedBull has been the best car in the paddock the last few years…so I’d say the x3 world championships are as much about the car and the team behind the scenes as the driver.

      2. Tim P says:

        Xbox 720 I think that you should go back to playing games and leave this column to the true fans of this incredible sport that have an understanding of how it works. Seb disobeyed a clear and direct team order and did not fairly “race” Mark due to the fact that Mark had turned down his motor and was conserving tyres as directed by his team, Mark told it how it was and for that I have respect. What would have happened if Mark had of disobeyed team orders and kept pushing before Seb had the chance to close the gap we will never know. As it sits Seb was wrong and I hope both the team and him have learned from this.

    2. HRC says:

      What a great chance to see what Torro Rosso can do with a world chumpian driver in the car for one race.

    3. absolude says:

      Wow, I hope you are kidding.

  23. Dude says:

    The amount of times Webber has had to sit behind Vettel and hold station in a very close 2nd spot (i can count a few times in 2010)…and it doesn’t happen one of the very few times Webber is in front of Vettel really says a few things.

    To stop this from ever happening again, Red Bull need to revert to the KERS, gearbox penalty, diff, start problem, drs failure, alternator thing they do to keep him away from Vettel!

    1. Sebee says:

      At least they let them race. Look to Ferrari last 3 year to see the other was it could play out.

  24. Leo says:

    [mod] Webber did a better job and won, Seb could not handle it. Marko is working against webber, what a shame. Mark drove a great race, only to be cheated to a win by a team that only favours one driver.
    Rosberg followed orders today but not Seb Oh No.
    He may well turn out to be another “greatest driver” but with no respect from others. Very disappointing !

    1. absolude says:

      He would have won only with the help of team orders. He also didn’t obey orders in the past.

  25. James says:

    An incident that stemmd from poor RB strategy earlier in the race. At the time of the ‘he’s too slow’ comment, Vettel & Webber were on different strategies and their inaction backed Vettel up to and ultimately behind Hamilton.

    With regards Webbers indignation, he was very vocal after the 2011 British GP about he much he disagreed with team orders and happily announced he had ignored “4 or 5 calls” to hold station. Funny that he now finds Vettel ignoring team orders so disappointing.

    1. johny bravo says:

      Webber came as close as 1s to the Vettel in that race in 2011 – you believe is the same, like taking away somebody’s deserved win? .

    2. splinky says:

      BINGO !!!

    3. Sam says:

      Funny how Webber was able to pull away from Vettel over the next laps despite being “too slow”. Spoiled child couldn’t handle that he was beaten fair and square once again by his underrated team mate.

  26. blackmamba says:

    I have never been so disgusted watching a F1 race before as I was today hearing the disdain in Vettel’s voice as he said to the team ‘he is too slow, get him out of the way’ meaning Webber. I felt so bad and angry for him with the sense of entitlement Vettel showed and then he pulls that dirty trick of attacking Webber when he had been assured twice that the race was over and the engines had been turned down. Badly done Vettel. Badly done!

    1. brendan says:

      if lewis had been right behind vettel and may of lost a place to him,yes let him pass.
      but lewis wasnt much off a danger,
      i bet webber so am not happy,but i feel for webber,its like vettel has done it all sly.
      he even stood on his car saying number one.
      (that was well rubbing it in more)
      ok we know vettel is fast and is number one,

      what would of happened is vettel would of caused them both to crash?
      vettel was determind to get past.
      maybe be has got a little to big for his boots.
      he was lucky webber didnt hit it after.

  27. Andrew says:

    Disgusting from vettel, tainted victory. Lack of class.

    1. Sebee says:

      Vettel is DOTD!

      Today it stands for Don’t Obey Team Directions. :-)

      I hope F1 fans stand up and respect the ruthlessness of a 3X WDC winning machine, instead of giving another driver sympathy DOTD vote.

      1. Timmay says:

        I am starting to suspect that you ARE Sebastian Vettel.

        If you are, I don’t like you.

      2. Sebee says:

        I am not him.

        He wins GPs. I watch GPs.

        You can like me once again. :-)

    2. zx6dude says:

      +1

      And people say he is not arrogant!

    3. Chooky says:

      Absolutely, 100% correct!

  28. After Marko saw the drama unfolding on the rostrum he must have nailed Vettel down and shoved a quickly composed apology in his hand to try and defuse the situation, Vettal couldn’t have cared less, he wasn’t about to follow a ‘number 2 driver home’ !!

  29. David Plews says:

    a very hollow win :(

  30. F*ckYeah says:

    Ant Davidson showed very nicely how Webber could have closed Seb off, but did not…

    Classy act from Merc, Rosberg and Hamilton showing how to do it right. At the moment they seem close to RBR, the disharmony there can only be to Mercedes drivers advantage.

    No doubt this page and others will be full of indignant posters raving about Team orders, but, what Red Bull and more successfully Merc did, was less than Alonso expects Massa to do for him at every race, why should his rivals fight him with one hand tied behind their backs ?

    Interesting too to see him getting so rattled at mention of Felipe outqualifying him for the last 4 races in a row. It will be a fun buildup to the next race, hopefully as many people as possible will bring this up and also highlight Felipe being ahead on points now :)

    1. Simmo says:

      “Ant Davidson showed very nicely how Webber could have closed Seb off, but did not…”

      I didn’t see that, but it just shows how Webber is a team player.

      1. brendan says:

        i saw it, he could of turned in a few times.
        vettel knows the tyres might not last, so i dont know what he was playing at.

    2. Anne says:

      The way I see it Felipe wasted his big chance to make a statement today. He had a bad start and then all he could do was to finish in P5. He can´t blame neither the car nor his team mate for that.

      1. Timmay says:

        True

      2. hero_was_senna says:

        I agree, in addition, do you think Alonso would have finished behind Massa if it hadn’t been for his misfortune? I don’t

      3. Anne says:

        I agree with you. Alonso was in P2 while Massa was in P7 right after the start. However I´m not sure Alonso would have won. 2 RB and 2 Mercedes is too much to handle. If I´m not mistaken Ferrari will bring upgrades to China. Alonso needs China. He is 22 points behind Vettel

      4. Elie says:

        Bahahaha.. “Misfortune”.. seriously open your eyes he made an error and paid a price.. You know every driver acknowledges it from time to time not this “hero” ..

      5. hero_was_senna says:

        Bearing in mind Anne that the two rb’s and the Mercs were behind Alonso in Australia

    3. I know says:

      “Classy act from Merc, Rosberg and Hamilton showing how to do it right.”

      It was probably the smart thing to do, but team orders are hardly “classy”.

  31. azlie says:

    I would think that the Hamilton/Rosberg situation is a much more controversial thing than Vettel/Webber. At least they were racing!

    1. Sebee says:

      Yes!!!

    2. F1 Bobby says:

      Ham and Ros swapped places a number of times before they were instructed held station. The controversy stems from Vettel ignoring team orders not team orders per se (which are part and parcel of F1).

    3. zx6dude says:

      If you consider racing when your team mate turned down the car to conserve tyres and car…

    4. jeffwest says:

      Why? Team orders are allowed in F1. Not taking instructions in a team effort betray the time-honoured understanding of sportsman-like behaviour. You wouldn’t happen to be a Vettel fan by any chance?

    5. Yak says:

      Agreed. In Red Bull’s case it was a matter of both drivers being told to ease up and just take the 1-2 as it stood. If both were allowed to race and didn’t have to worry about the tyres, you couldn’t really say for sure who would have crossed the line first.

      In Merc’s case, Rosberg clearly could have had Hamilton, but for whatever reason was told to hold back. It didn’t have to be a tough battle like Vettel and Webber, he could easily have taken him down one of the big straights even without Hamilton letting him past (although from the sounds of what Hamilton has said, he would have let it happen). A quick pass down the straight and then just hold formation to the end. Right near the end of the race we saw from Rosberg’s T-cam going into turn one, and you could see how slow they were crawling around the track. Seemed almost to the extent that Rosberg wasn’t even braking into turn one, just lifting off and letting the drag eventually slow the car.

      My guess is that maybe Merc felt it would look better for them if Hamilton scored his first podium for the team. New improved car, new management, new big name champion driver in the seat… look what we’re achieving now. But if that’s the case, when even Hamilton is on the podium saying Rosberg deserved that spot, I don’t think it’s really worked out.

  32. The Finger says:

    Brilliant!!! Thoroughly enjoyable!!!

    There’ll be a lot of Anti-Vettel jumping on the bandwagon but, in my opinion, he only did wrong in terms of his team. In terms of the spirit of racing and the spirit of F1 he was brilliant! How boring it would have been if he had stayed behind, like Nico with Lewis.

    Webber was so slow in the middle of the race that he nearly compromised Vettel’s race, and actually led to Vettel coming out behind Lewis after one set of stops. Webber also isn’t the goody-two-shoes he makes himself out to be, forcing Vettel dangerously close to the wall at the start of the overtake.

    It was all great to watch, and Vettel did what he was paid to do: RACE!!!

    1. Robin says:

      Indeed. You could argue if he had it would have been a disaster for the sport as you have four cars finishing in obvious formation, the sort of thing that turns casual fans off. As it is, this race result just made the front of the Globe and Mail’s website, a Canadian paper that rarely gives any prominence to F1.

      This is the biggest thing since Danica Patrick.

      Robin

    2. Simmo says:

      “Webber also isn’t the goody-two-shoes he makes himself out to be, forcing Vettel dangerously close to the wall at the start of the overtake.”

      I’m pretty sure Webber was well ahead when he chose his line, and Vettel just wanted the inside of the track.

      1. brendan says:

        vettel is so lucky webber didnt put him in the wall.

      2. Lol says:

        Lol, get real. It was Schumi-Rubens all over.

      3. Simmo says:

        Firstly, telling me to “get real” is quite offensive, so if that could be moderated in the future James…

        Now, more importantly, after very carefully watching the replay over, I can confirm that Webber only moved while Vettel was behind him. As soon as Vettel got along side him, Mark stopped moving over. And there was plenty of room, for 1 car.

        Proof is at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rjzh7/Formula_1_2013_The_Malaysian_Grand_Prix_Highlights/ watch 1:19:35. Apologies for the large link.

      4. Siobhan says:

        Gary Anderson says different.

      5. Simmo says:

        So? Gary Anderson has his views, which I’m not saying are bad, but he may be wrong…

    3. JC says:

      Tend to agree, but the key moment was switching to slicks too early and getting on traffic effectively giving away his advantage to MW. From then on an uphill battle. Obviously he though that deserved the win (or fight for it) after following MW from 2-3 secs to save tyre wear throughout the race and compromising his position to Lewis.
      Ferrari would have handled it differently as they did in Australia …

    4. Aaron says:

      Webber never moved right, he just held his line. Vettel chose to go right into the narrow gap between Webber and the wall. The move was only dangerous because he chose to dive into the gap.

      1. mhilgtx says:

        Maybe you should re watch that pass, that is not my recollection.

    5. web head says:

      It would have been an even fight if Webber had the same engine performance and not turned down to what, multi 21 as stated. Poor form on vettel, no wonder why people dislike him with a passion. It shows how arrogant vettel is and how he disregards all the team and factory personnel

    6. Symo says:

      Webber was managing the tyres when Vettel said he was too slow, BUT just after Vettel said he was slow Webber started smashing him sector after sector and pulled out a 4s+ lead!

  33. wakie81 says:

    I’d respect Seb more if he came out and said I know what I did and I’d do it again instead of I didn’t ignore the orders on purpose.

    1. Craig in Manila says:

      Agreed.

    2. Grant H says:

      Agree these guys are racing drivers the job is to win, that’s it. Team orders are pants. Don’t believe the apology

  34. Nick says:

    Another typical move from the[mod] spoiled brat of Formula 1

  35. Pete_from_Nepal says:

    Not sure what to think of Vettel the driver yet. Disobeying team orders is fair enough, sometimes. The team doesn’t necessarily have your best interest at heart all the time (like Barichello and team orders). But I think when the other driver is told that there would be no threat, just to go outright and take the win is not right.

    Of course F1 doesn’t revolve around ethics. It revolves around money – and so points. Other World champions have been similarly ‘unethical’, and this is just to prove that SV is in that league I suppose. Perhaps it shows one of the many reasons Rosberg and SV are in different leagues.

    Still, I am disappointed in some ways. Mika Hakkinen always struck me as a gentleman (I can’t remember any controversies but I could be wrong) and it was always a joy to see him race. Perhaps after this incident I will find Mika’s wins more worthy knowing that his victories were due to hard work and skills, and not necessarily also because of some backstabbing…

    1. JubJub says:

      Listen to Martin Brundle during the wrap up section after the race. He has a rather interesting view on team orders and Mika Hakkinen.

      1. Pete_from_Nepal says:

        Thanks JJ, would love to watch. Do you have a link?

    2. Chris says:

      DC gifted Mika a win in 97 I believe.

    3. Aaron Noronha says:

      At the last race of the 1997 season in Jerez, Coulthard was obliged by team orders to concede second place to Häkkinen with three laps to go. Villeneuve needed to finish the race to win that year’s drivers’ championship in a car which was underperforming following a lap 48 collision with Schumacher. He gave way to the two McLarens on the final lap, with Coulthard reported to be “not bubbling with joy after the event… Häkkinen himself was speechless and made little sense after the race.”[14]

      1. Aaron Noronha says:

        At the last race of the 1997 season in Jerez, Coulthard was obliged by team orders to concede second place to Häkkinen with three laps to go. Villeneuve needed to finish the race to win that year’s drivers’ championship in a car which was underperforming following a lap 48 collision with Schumacher. He gave way to the two McLarens on the final lap, with Coulthard reported to be “not bubbling with joy after the event… Häkkinen himself was speechless and made little sense after the race.”

      2. Pete_from_Nepal says:

        You’re right. Also realized happened again in 1998 Melbourne under very strange circumstances (although I think there was a gentleman’s agreement in place for this one) and someone allegedly broke into the McLaren communication system.

        Sigh. perhaps I am all wrong then. This is all a show, and a drama for the total master puppeteer and ringmaster Bern. E.

    4. shankar says:

      +1 exactly what i was thinking

    5. cos says:

      +1… not sure how much he meant it, but Schumi has been well quoted as saying the one man he respected / feared most on the track was Mika

    6. Timmay says:

      Mikas first 2 wins weren’t down to hard work or skills – DC pulled over for both of them. So watch those ones, Jerez 97 & Melbourne 98.

      Point taken that he was a gentleman and very fast though.

    7. Jeff says:

      Yes, Nico and SV are in different leagues. Both are very fast, skilled drivers. Nico, like Hamilton, has class. SV has none.

  36. amal says:

    Webber,man of the day ??

    1. Lol says:

      He lost while getting the better strategy calls and showed himself to be a hypocrite. So no.

  37. Miha Bevc says:

    Well, this was another thrilling race, which makes it 2 out of 2.

    Vettel sure did wrong to ignore team orders, but you have to admire his hunger for winning. People who are against team orders won’t complain I guess. This is probably why Alonso and Vettel are multiple champions, while Webber and Massa aren’t. Can someone imagine Alonso apologizing for overtaking Massa? Schumacher for overtaking Barichello? Senna for overtaking Prost (and vice-versa)? Boy F1 has changed! But at least we have something to chew on.

    Alonso arguably did no mistakes in 2012, but now he did 2 in 1 lap. Bad call not to pit!

    Kimi was nowhere today, despite having one stop less. I hope Lotus will be back in China.

    1. Miha Bevc says:

      Just read it was team decision not to pit Alonso so only one and a half mistake by Alonso :) He should have insisted…

      1. Valois says:

        I have just read the opposite: That Alonso made the call to stay for more 3 ou 4 spins. Maybe we’ll never know the truth.

        By the way, if Alonso really decided to stay in track he may be becoming desperate because of

        1) track was clearly very wet at first sector and it would take a great deal of laps to dry; and

        2) front wing did not lose just one appendix, it was clear that it would detach soon. We have already seen that kind of damage before and its consequences (wing becomes loose and gets stuck behind the car).

        Let China come.

      2. brendan says:

        alonso was waiting for the track to dry so he could put slicks on and not lose that much time.
        alonso could of caused a pile up,was to dangerous to stay out.

      3. Anne says:

        It doesn´t matter what Alonso wanted. The team has a safety responssibility to order him to pit despite his wishes to stay

      4. greetz says:

        indeed he did not intend to pit, he drove full power with that flappy front wing.

        from the tv footage I don’t get why Ferrari is not penalized for alowing this dangerous situation to happen

      5. Yak says:

        Alonso can make calls about the choice of tyres, but something like a front wing half hanging off the car is more for the pit lane to call on. They’re the ones with the data and the footage of the car’s condition. Alonso was in no real position to make a call on the integrity of the front wing beyond whether or not it was making the car undriveable.

        That they gave Alonso an option might have suggested to him that it wasn’t a huge DNF risk to keep going until they were ready to come off the inters. After all, surely if the team had a real concern they would have told him to pit, not asked if he wanted to.

    2. [MISTER] says:

      Vettel only apologized after the team told him to do it. I didn’t see Vettel putting his hands up and trying to talk Mark in the room before the podium.

      Apologizing after was just for the media sake and to save something out of it. Saying he didn’t know about it is bull.

  38. Formula Zero says:

    What a race! Malaysian grand prix was equally entertaining, controversial & heart aching. No question, Vettel is one of the best drivers going around, but he is neither a team player nor manageable. He falls into the same category as Senna & Schumacher is one way, they all want to win at all cost. Webber could’ve gone faster, but he didn’t because he was promised the win & turned the engine down. At this rate Vettel is not going to have many friends left in the sport, certainly not many fans. Webber is people’s winner.

    As far as Rosberg’s race was concerned, I can’t help to feel sorry for him. From the beginning of the season I backed Rosberg to have the upper hand over Hamilton & I still do. I am sure if the circumstances are equal for both drivers, Nico will beat Lewis fair & square in qualifying and the race. But both drivers showed outstanding respect to each other. That is how team mates should behave on and off the track. Red Bull can take some lesson from that.

    What happened to Ferrari’s pace James? Great job by Massa though. He has beaten his superstar team mate again & very fairly. Hopefully drivers like Massa & Webber get some rewards for not just because they are great drivers but also because they are good sport. I am sure we will be hearing a lot about Webber/Vettel & Rosberg/Hamilton story. But I gotta say, “Bianchi deserves a championship fighting car”. If he can finish 13th for a super slow car, imagine what he can do in Force India, not to mention the Big 5 (Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault & McLaren).

    1. Andrew M says:

      How were circumstances between Hamilton and Rosberg not “fair and square” in either qualifying session, or the race in Melbourne?

      1. Formula Zero says:

        Lewis did nothing wrong mate. But Nico had too much technical issues in Melbourne which affected his qualifying & race. He was fastest in most part of the qualifying & practice. And you know about Malaysia already. Again I command Lewis’s sportsmanship. But Nico has the upper hand in my book in terms of tyre management & pace.

    2. hero_was_senna says:

      Ferrari’s race pace ended at the start of lap 2!
      Even with major damage to the Ferrari, Webber wasn’t getting past.
      As to beating his team-mate fairly, what are you on? Alonso was ahead before the first corner.

    3. Max Smoot says:

      Bianchi performances excellent so far. Let’s see the view from his camera once in awhile.

    4. krischar says:

      Great job by massa ?

      Started P2 and Finished P5

      Alonso is not a superstar in brazil or England. He is a legend and superstar in our hearts though

  39. Thembekile says:

    James what do you think of Lewis’s switch to Mercedes when looking at how well he seems to have adapted there?

    1. Dave C says:

      He’s adapted just fine, with Ross assuring him the faster Nico Rosberg wouldn’t be challenging him and damage his reputation, it’s a farce what a stab in the back for Nico after years of playing 2nd fiddle to Schumacher yet he was the faster driver, same all over again but with 1 step further and openly not allowed to pass a slower driver, but I know and most analysts knows that Nico is faster than Hamilton, hard to swallow but I’m glad Vettel showed Webber who the champion is.

      1. Marcelo Leal says:

        I’m sure you watched the race, and so you know that Rosberg did try to pass Hamilton twice and Hamilton did gain the position on both ocasions.

        As everybody else, I think Rosberg could get past eventually, but we are not so sure as Rosberg was asking for Brawn to give order to Lewis to let him through. And that was the “negative, negative” answer from Ross.

        With Rosberg driving so close to Hamilton and losing downforce, we are not sure he would get past. And maybe he was trying to do exactly what Vettel did.

        He asked Brawn to easy things for him as Lewis was regaining the position. As I said, we have some evidences to think one way, but you cannot be so sure as to get pas is not so easy, and thinking about Hamilton and the circuit, can be really difficult. Webber even controlling the pace, did let Vettel pass or we dont know if Vettel would do it.

      2. Yak says:

        I don’t think Nico was asking for Lewis to let him past. He was asking for permission to overtake Lewis, i.e. abandon the order to slow down and sit behind Lewis.

        They were taking it very easy towards the end as Lewis had pushed it too hard chasing the Red Bulls. Nico had paced himself better and at the end felt he was very much being held up. Lewis seems to agree.

      3. I will says:

        Dave, are German?

      4. Newman says:

        Where did you get that idea from? Schumacher and Rosberg were free to race eachother unless conditions warrented team orders. I don’t remember them crashing into eachother too which is a bonus.

        I still remember Suzuka 2011 when Schumi was significantly faster than Rosberg, on fresher tyres and Rosberg not yielding. Both had a high 7th gear and Schumi couldn’t get past. The fact that Rosberg did his own thing kind of destroys your “second fiddle” theory, doesn’t it?

        There’s a ton of difference between having a team leader and a “number 1″ driver.

        Anyway, let’s hope today was one of those special days where the much faster driver was not allowed to pass.

      5. Val from montreal says:

        Dave , with all due respect to you but , how and when was Rosberg playin 2nd fiddle to Schumacher these last 3 years ??

        Are u talking about the number swapping # 7 on Michael’s car ? I think thats the only thing that Schuey asked for when he arrived at Mercedes , and it was’nt an issue for Nico because he agreed to it …

        Rosberg faster than him ? Maybe a bit in 2010 and beginning 2011 but afterwards not really , especially throughout 2012 … Brawn had to make it clear to the media from the get-go that MSC and Nico would be on equal terms ….

        Peace

    2. Sikhumbuzo says:

      @ Thembi

      Well Sisi if anything credit should go to Bob Bell and Aldo Costa in particular. This new Mercedes car has the potential to challenge the Bulls. I think it’s a touch above the Ferrari and visibly looks easy to drive. China should be more indicative.

      Sikhumbuzo

  40. Quade says:

    Todays race ended with ugly team orders.
    I felt sorry for Rosberg today. It seems that he might have to begin gearing up to be number two. He and Lewis handled it quite well, but will it change thing? “Negative!” :)

    As for Red Bull, its going to be a season of fireworks and full on warfare.

    1. shankar says:

      no i think webber will accept what he is supposed to be in that team and quieten down as he has done for the past years with almost all failures and electronic clutch start problems kept coming to him again and again and again.

      and i think it is disappointing that mark doesn’t stand up and make his mark.

  41. Johnny Canuck says:

    What an extraordinary thing for Vettel to do. He seemed to indicate post-race that he was unaware of the instruction to him to keep station (which Weber apparently thought laughable). Can those who were monitoring Red Bull pit communications comment on whether Vettel seemed to be in normal communication with his team in the latter stages of the race? When he and Webber met prior to the podium celebration and Webber repeated the team’s code for keeping station, Vettel didn’t respond that I could notice. One might think that if he’d had radio problems and didn’t hear the message, he would have said something to that effect or asked Webber what he was on about. If there was some sort of radio problem, it would at least make his actions defensible.

    My own suspicion is that he figured (and last year confirmed) that every point is important and he was going to get maximum points today come heck or high water, team orders be damned. Perhaps as World Champion he thought he was due the points regardless of whether Webber was running ahead of him. How many Ferrari drivers had to move over for Schumacher? And certainly other teams have made similar moves.

    Whatever the reasons, Vettel has certainly thrown a major grenade into the team. Will he and Webber both last out the season at Red Bull? Vettel obviously delivers results …… will that be more important to the team going forward than trust? An interesting season in the offing …….

    1. Robin says:

      They survived Turkey 2010, they’ll survive this.

    2. brendan says:

      vettel heard all the messages,he even said i heard the order to stay behind, but in my mind i didnt listern.
      standing on his car waving number one, was just rubbing salt in the wound.
      i used to like vettel alot,after what he has done not sportmanship.
      like webber said nothing will be done because he is the golden boy.

  42. All revved-up says:

    If Nico didn’t have to save fuel, and yet held station to Hamilton; then Vettel surely ought to have done the same.

    I do understand that saving engines to make the 8 engines last the long season ahead means taking a long term strategic view on team management.

    But the importance of these strategic season long issues notwithstanding, it does result in races that seem just a little unsatisfactory to an F1 fan out to enjoy a day of exciting racing.

    There’s was little excitement in seeing Weber turn down his engine, only to be passed by Vettel; nor Rosberg arguing with Ross Brawn about whether he may or may not pass Hamilton.

    Actually the last 10 laps felt like a soap opera, than an F1 race. And the mood on the podium, what a joy killer at the end of a long day out for F1 fans.

    If we want to watch 4 grumpy people, we don’t tune into an F1 race to do so.

    Someone milking the F1 franchise had better earn their overblown incomes and sort this matter out pronto. Pah!

    1. Aaron Noronha says:

      there was no way Webbers Engine was toned down if it were Vettels car would have been a car length at the end of the straight before the braking point. He was expecting the move and watching his mirrors from when he had emerged from the pits, watch the reply carefully. He know what Vettel was doing it takes only a fraction of a second to turn the engine back up. And he did the same thing Webber did to him in silverstone, read the above comments

    2. brendan says:

      i have said before bring back refueling and one chose of tyre ,and one engine for each race.
      there be no need for team orders then to save fuel,engines and tyres.
      the fasted car/driver would always in.

  43. Mohan says:

    A straightforward attitude to disobey team orders is understandable as ‘determination’ to become a world champion. When one conserves fuel by turning down the engine as part of a team strategy and the other later capitalizes on it, it is backstabbing on your teammate.

    Shame on you Vettel.

  44. JRay says:

    Right or wrong I think Vettel has diminished himself today…Webber should leave a soon as possible.

    1. Lol says:

      In fact, Vettel has now claimed to be the true follow up of Senna.

      All these people complaining are new to F1 or just hate Vettel.

  45. Alberto Martínez says:

    James,

    You rate Felipe Massa´s race as an ‘strong performance’ when he was losing time with Button in an struggling McLaren and both in a 3 stop strategy but I only can see it the other way around.

    I think Massa should have closed mouths today and prove the great driver he is in a day in which Alonso had an DNF, but didn´t happen. Today he can´t blame Ferrari strategy or conspirations inside the team against him.
    In my view Massa has returned to great form in qualifying but not in race trim – we´ll never know what Alonso could have done today in the same car: podium?

    Would like to know people´s reactions to Mercedes controversy if would have happened in the Ferrari garage with Alonso in the role of Hamilton and Massa in the role of Rosberg. Same yardstick?

    1. Truth or Lies says:

      You’d have to say Massa faded in the early part of the race, but for sure he was held up by Alonso when he ran into Vettel at turn 2 and that allowed a number of cars past on either side.

      But no doubt the Ferrari in Massa’s hand appeared to struggle in the mixed conditions, but we’ll never know what Fernando would have done as he was already out at that stage. All I can say is that in the past 5 or 6 races both Ferrari drivers have been pretty evenly matched, wet or dry.

      Massa was also hampered just like Vettel when they both pitted one lap too soon for slicks. However I thought in the dry and warmer final 1/3 of the race he was strong. These conditions seemed to suit the Ferrari better and after his final stop came back very strongly overtaking Perez and both Lotus’s to take 5th. So in fairness while not brilliant, it surely wasn’t that bad either and keeps both him and Ferrari in decent championship positions.

      1. Multi 21 says:

        Having watched replays of Massa’s start I’d say it was mostly his own fault. When he arrived at turn 1 he chose neither the inside or outside lines. He just drifted around the middle of the track largely in Alonso’s wake.

        This let Webber take the inside and Hamilton take the outside. When Alonso was baulked by Vettel at T2, he had nowhere to go and had to lift allowing Webber and Hamilton to get a better run out of turn 2.

        He was then squabbling with Rosberg at T4 which allowed Button to pass and demoted FM to 6th after lap 1. Podium chance over in four corners.

    2. Abdul says:

      I totally agree with you. Massa has improved his qualm, but race pace is yet to be omfirmed.

      1. Abdul says:

        Sorry should say qualy

    3. [MISTER] says:

      Agree with you completely.

      I think we would have never heard the end of it if it was the Ferrari boys instead of Mercedes.

    4. David Ryan says:

      Massa was on a 4-stop strategy, so the comparison doesn’t quite bear out. His first lap wasn’t very impressive, that much is true, but thereafter he was on the pace for the most part, set the 2nd fastest lap and made the most of his new tyres at the end. Pat Fry said in the post-race quotes that Massa “definitely drove a good race” so if Ferrari themselves believe he did well I’d say that settles it. How Alonso would have done became rather a moot point once he ran into the back of Vettel in turn 2…

    5. Timmay says:

      I think if Alonso were driving the same car as Massa today she would have broken her front wing on lap 1 and slid into a sandtrap at the start of lap 2 after choosing not to go to the pits for some arrogant reason.

  46. Rick says:

    It appears that Mercedes grossly underestimated the fuel load necessary to compete for the full distance. What if they were in a position to win? How stupid would that have been, not to be able to drive fast enough because they’re conserving fuel.

    Did they expect rain, when no one else did? Did they need that weight-saving so badly in order to protect their tires that they compromised their potential speed?

    Really, it makes them look pretty stupid or desperate, either way.

    1. Andy says:

      It seems ironic that F1 followers lambast Pirelli for producing tyres that the FIA have requested, and prevent drivers ‘from driving flat out’, and yet at every race we hear a team telling a driver to save fuel because they have deliberately underfuelled him.

    2. Simmo says:

      Not really, seeing as it was only an issue on Hamilton’s car, not Rosberg’s

      1. Tom Johnson says:

        Hamilton was fighting the RBs for the win Rosburg wasn’t and had no chance of doing so had he overtaken Hamilton. Mercedes need to get a grip on how Hamilton races, the days of Schumacher/Rosberg scraping along for a few points are over this is Hamilton we’re talking about and he’s always going to be competing with the race leaders. Now that is an experience Mercedes is going to have to get used to. Hold on to your hats boys!

      2. Simmo says:

        That’s true, I’ve changed my mind :)

      3. Newman says:

        Or Hamilton used up too much fuel to fight with the Red Bulls (or keep the faster Rosberg behind him)

      4. Poyta says:

        Who’s to say it wasn’t an issue on Rosberg;s car? only Brawn would be privy to that information and you as a viewer aren’t.

      5. Simmo says:

        Fair enough :)

  47. Wayne says:

    Just to say I do and have always agreed with team orders at the point that it is sensible to do so both in the race and in the championship. F1 is a TEAM sport, it’s both a very simple and strightforward concept. In this race both Merc and RBR let the drivers race until the last few laps and then called them off to maximise the team points haul. Who in their right mind would have a problem with that from a fan perspective? Teams invest millions and receive millions for their constructors position, it’s genuinely important for their future – the money pays the bills to keep the lights on.

    ROS could have passed HAM and was faster but did the right thing and obeyed his employer, the people who give him the car and pay his wages. He did not risk his position or HAMs. HAM should be prepared to do exactly the same thing next time the positions are reversed and if he does not I would think less of him. And I don’t doubt that Brawn will give that order if needs be. They (ROS and Brawn) are both men of honor.

    VET did the complete opposite. Now, people will defend him with the tired old tosh about ‘he’s a racing driver, you can’t blame him’ – but that’s just rubbish. If you have an agreement you don’t get to back out of it when it suits you. You also don’t get to ignore your employer when it suits you. Apologising after the fact means very little when you have the points in the bag. VET will never get the
    credit he genuinly deserves for his drives until he A) moves to a new team. B) Races a team-mate of ALO and HAMs calibre (Not to take anything away from WEB who I genuinely respect perhaps more than any other driver) just as ALO
    directly raced HAM at McLaren. and C) cuts the childish, whinging and dishonorable behavior out of his game just as HAM (who was every bit as bad) now seems to have done.

    Mercedes should be proud of the decision they took and their both of their drivers’ reactions to it. RBR should be proud of
    the decision they took, WEB should be proud of his race. Only VET should be looking at himself – the fact that he has apologised suggests that he is. The problem now is that he has broken a trust – how is WEB supposed to trust that he will stick to the gareement next time? He won’t so he’ll keep racing and
    the tissuepaper tyres will wear out or they will collide.

    Know what though, I blame the tyres even more than I blame VET. If they were not all trundling around 1 second a lap slower than they otherwise would be to protect the tyres these situations would be much less likely to occur. Pirelli are utterly ruining F1 for me,
    I just don’t understand how any fan of RACING could disagree with me. They’re not racing on the track as they should be in the world’s
    premiere moreorsport formula, all the racing is being done in the strategy department! How can this possibly be the preferred situation for any F1 fan. It’s not a real situation, it’s engineered, it’s false and fascile and it’s making F1 superficial. Pirelli are the worst thing to happen to F1 in a long long time, we should bloody boycott their road tyres (whihc wouldn;t be a bad thing considering they might not last a trip to the
    supermarket ;)

    1. Darren W says:

      The Pirelli indictment is a little strong. They have done exactly as the FIA asked…and done it well. Michelin on the other hand, did serious damage to F1′s reputation at Indianapolis in 2005.

      One of the exciting things about F1 is the engineering aspect. Everything is constantly being engineered; even the controversies.

      F1 engineered itself into a corner of processional racing and they have found a way to engineer (through tires, DRS, KERS) excitement back into the racing. To pick on the tires is a bit like choosing the chow mein over the fried rice…or any of the other thirty choices at the buffet.

    2. IgMi says:

      I fully agree with you the view of the drivers’ and teams’ performance today. It was put together very nicely.

      However, I have to admit that I disagree with your view of the tires. I find that the uncertainty they introduce adds to the suspense as it requires additional skills from teams and drivers alike. The race is not just about going fast, is also about lasting the distance, not just from lap to lap in a single race, but also from race to race (I love the limits on engine allocation, gearbox changes, etc.) That being said, ROS could have performed even better if he backed off little bit more behind HAM to add to the preservation of his machinery for the races to follow – the season has just started.

    3. Miha Bevc says:

      I agree that Pirelli tyres are a little bit too extreme this year. At a certain point of the race all cars from P1 to P14 were having the same pace

      1. Miha Bevc says:

        Clearly, tyres are the limiting factor.

      2. Jeff says:

        F1 is in danger of turning into NASCAR, where many drivers have the skill to go a certain pace, but the machinery and the racing format don’t allow the drivers with that extra 1% to shine, so there’s little to differentiate between the most skilful drivers.

        I liked the tyre format initially, but with 4 pit stops per race and so much ‘driving to a lap time’, it’s getting to become a bit of a joke.

        I want to see the top drivers have to drive on the ragged edge of adhesion to win, not to have the prize go to the most accurate driver who can lap to a particular time. That’s called a regularity rally, not Formula 1.

      3. Very well put.. If you want to see this sort of rubbish go watch nascar.

        Me I am cant wait for the Le Mans 24 hour. F! lost me.

      4. John says:

        Totally agree, f1 has changed in recent years due to tyres no longer are the drivers on the limit prob a reason why schumacher wasnt the same driver as its simply not about who is the quickest driver, all you hear is manage tyres,mind your pace, bring back fuel stops and tyres where degredation doesnt set in after a few laps, then we’ll see cars at full speed on th limit for duration of th race,and well not have to see any of ths managing fuel either..poor rosberg

    4. franb says:

      +1. The tyres are the real story here and people are getting caught up in team orders. The sad truth is that the top 4 drivers were nursing their cars home for one reason or another. Mostly tyres. Why aren’t more people upset about that? Is this good racing. Say what you will about VET, but at least he was pushing at the end which is more than I can say about the rest of them. You want to protect the car. Pull into the garage and make way for people who want to race and go fast.

    5. Cliff says:

      I suspect that we come from different sides of the argument on team orders and tyres, but I have to admit that you make a strong argument on both points. Nevertheless, the type of tyres being supplied by Pirelli were requested by F1 itself. Using your Supermarket, if you’re asked to go to a shop and buy a tin of white paint, you buy white paint. When you return home you’re then told “I wanted white paint, but not that shade of white paint”, that’s the problem Pirelli has, no-one in F1 actually knows what they want, although individual teams know exactly what they want!

      As for the team orders, Nico Rosberg could argue that it’s not his fault that Lewis was running out of fuel, so why should he be penalised? The team after all, would have got the same number of points! I do agree that Mercedes will quickly move on from today, who knows what will happen next at RBR?

      I did find it slightly amusing that both LH & SV apologised after bagging the ‘big points’, when it was all avoidable.

    6. Kay says:

      Well said on all your points. +1

    7. jph2812 says:

      i agree with everything you say and when you have more downforce on your car you chew the tyres up faster then i no longer get what the sport is trying to do

    8. Andrew M says:

      I’m not sure about the worst thing that’s ever happened to F1, but I’m certainly no fan of the Pirelli philosophy. I watched the highlights of the 2003 race on Sky F1, and it’s amazing just how much more dynamic and on-edge the cars were on low fuel and tyres that didn’t fall off a cliff. It’s not exactly a co-incidence that the best non-wet races (for me at least) last year were Canada, Abu Dhabi and Austin, where the tyre choice was “conservative” and allowed the drivers to go flat out for the whole race distance.

    9. JC says:

      For this kind of racing we have sports cars racing, Le Mans, etc. save fuel, tyres etc and have a tactical sprint every now and then. I like that, but IMO not what F1 should be…

    10. simon says:

      +1 totally agree about the tyre situation, its getting to be more like the Pirelli show.

    11. Jimbob says:

      +1.. Apart from the stuff about the tyres. F1 was pretty predictable pre Pirelli, I do prefer watching the drivers struggle a bit even if it does take some of the purity out of the sport.

    12. hero_was_senna says:

      Was I watching a different race?
      Didn’t Rosberg overtake Hamilton a few times with DRS into the last corner, then get repassed down the following straight?
      It was only after this that Rosberg was told to hold station

    13. John Marshall says:

      Agree 100%, only thing I’d add to the list is DRS. It’s phony and cheap. And, I’m tired of hearing announcers make a big deal out of passes that are completely predictable and require little to no skill to pull off.

      I’m much more impressed with Kimi or Lewis racing wheel to wheel with someone than I ever will be with a DRS pass.

  48. Anne says:

    Vettel is insane.Give him a straight jacket. He won 3 championships, it was only the second race of the season. RELAX!!!

    Nice to see Hamilton back in McLaren for pit stop :)

    Ferrari what a mess!!! Both drivers made big mistakes. Unbelieveble!!! Oh well… better luck next time. The good news is they are no longer alone when it comes to team orders.

    I don´t have a problem with team orders. It is clear all teams have number 1 and number 2 driver. But why too early in the season? What a contrast between RB and Mercedes.

    Force India pit stops UUUHHHGGG!!! Bloody joke!

    Great battle and racing between Kimi and The Hulk :)

    1. Mingojo says:

      Team orders is not new in Formula 1. All the teams have used it at some point, even the ones that have hypocritically denied it.

      1. Anne says:

        I know. I don´t have a problem with that. Just not too early and no too blatant. Use pit stop strategy instead. Be blatant after midseason

    2. brendan says:

      kimi makes me laugh he is so funny,
      hulkenberg was racing him,kimi went on the radio and said he is getting in my way putting me off,ha ha.
      i remember years ago when schumacher was getting an award of pele before a race,kimi was asked did you see it.kimi said no i was having a sh@t.
      and when he broke down at monaco years ago,he never went back to the pits,he went to his boat took his shirt off and had an ice cream.

      imagine if kimi was told to stay behind his team mate for 2nd.i think his answer to his team would of been @@@@@@@ bleep @@@@@ bleep :0)

    3. Grant says:

      Oooh, the love story between Lewis and McLaren.
      So touching…

    4. hero_was_senna says:

      Alonso made a big mistake. Massa just raced at his level as always..

  49. Cozza says:

    I hope Webber repays the favor later in the year.

    or it lights a fire under him. Vettel clearly think there’s an I in team so Webber just goes for it. Screw Vettel, I’m going for a WDC.

    1. Tutti says:

      Webber should shut it and remember Silverstone 2011 – going against team orders, playing the poor underdog card and being proud about it… Even being universally applauded for it. He failed to pass Vettel then, Vettel didn’t fail today. Which is expected… because Seb gets the job done.

      1. Sebastian says:

        +1

      2. **Paul** says:

        That’s all that needs saying about the move. Well put !

      3. John says:

        +1 totally agree, Webber needs to take this beating like a man, oh 26 wins in just over 4 years at redbull, imagine if he repreats it in the next 12 years, scary thought, the british fans and media would be tearing the hair out.

      4. Aden Fergus says:

        Or because Seb had his engine turned up and Mark didn’t,that might help too.

      5. 69bhp says:

        agreed, Webber can’t have it both ways. Christian Horner has also revealed that Webber ignored team orders and tried to race Vettel in Brazil last year.

    2. Poyta says:

      The difference with Webber in Silverstone 2011 is that both Sebastian and Webber said ” stuff order, lets give the viewers what they want to see and race” so it was an equal contest and race but in this situation how is it fair if one driver turns it down while the other turns it up to steal a win?

  50. Scuderia McLaren says:

    What’s the big deal.

    Mark has done that before to Vettel. They were 2-3 at the 2011 British GP with Vettel leading and Horner saying hold station with a few laps left, but Webber ignored and challenged needlessly to the flag with Vettel holding on. Webber was praised for his racing courage to go against team orders, the “machine” and make Vettel earn it. Props Webbo…

    The issue here is that Vettel did EXACTLY the same thing, but beat Mark and showed him who was boss. Mark knew Vettel was challenging, clearly by almost putting Vettel in the wall, so he should stop crying. Stop being a hypocrite.

    Mark… If you are listening… You live by the sword you die by the sword. Or in Aussie, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    1. brendan says:

      mark wasnt 3 times world champion then was he?
      vettel knows he can beat webber anytime,so i guess its not the same,vettel had 6 wins before the british gp.
      webber just thought i wanna win one for a change.
      webber aint crying(there is a rule in the team so you dont crash in each other)
      if your ahead after the final pit stop and ahead of the 3rd,you dont race save the car.
      its even more important now due to tyre wear.

    2. luqa says:

      Exactly!
      This was strictly about payback for Brazil 2012 when Webber cut Vettel off at the start of the race dropping him into the back markers, and then being spun around by Senna. That mostly and conveniently overlooked manoeuvre almost cost Vettel the Drivers Championship.
      What I find disingenuous is Vettel and RBR thinking an apology to Webber is necessary. Vettle was always faster today than Webber- even so far as to being backed into a charging Hamilton and Rosberg, resulting in coming out behind Hamilton after the pit stop . RBR blew the strategy calls by trying to appease Webber today and are thus in damage control mode.
      If they had done their job properly, we wouldn’t be having this artificial controversy. If I were Webber I’d be annoyed as well, but this is the big leagues, the pinnacle of motor sport not Formula Ford- get over it!

    3. Greg (Aus) says:

      The difference is equal terms – Silverstone was not a case of Vettel being told to turn his engine down and coast home. This was not a fair contest, to claim otherwise is disingenuous.

    4. JC says:

      Good view! What goes around comes around. Don’ t forget brazil start last year… He compromised Vettel’s position squeezing the inside line…

    5. B.Diddy says:

      Difference was that 2011 was a totally dominat year for Seb and RBR Seb almost had the title sewn up with a huge lead over Webber. Absolutely no need for team orders from Horner then.
      Vetted has benefitted more from RBR policy to race until last pit stop.. If Webber had of done what Seb did today last season 2012 and taken a win away from him… Vettel would have lost the WDC to Alonso and be a double champ instead of triple champ….
      Today’s move lacked honour and class he is more than able to beat Webber in a straight fight as he has shown, do it don’t take cheap shots !!!! I’m not a Webber fan but feel very sorry for him today

      1. Scuderia McLaren says:

        It’s not for Webber to judge when team orders were nessecary. The fact is they were given to him and he ignored and challenged and failed. He jeopardised results despite team orders a few times. Vett simply did the same and won. We can debate the difference as to whether team orders were needed at different times but the fact is they have been issued and ignored by Webber a few times and in critical moments as well. (Brazil 2012.)

        It’s in these moment quality rises. That Schumacher, Senna, Vettel, Hakkinen’s rise and the Barrichello, Coulthards and Webber’s fall.

    6. Bellof says:

      well said !

    7. hero_was_senna says:

      Hey Scud, from memory, had the RBR’s been told to turn down the engines at the end of the race, or were they still chasing Alonso till the end?

  51. David S says:

    There is an interesting sub plot here that contrasts the ability of Christian Horner vs Ross Brawn.

    Ross was able to fully assert authority but Christian couldn’t. Inevitably this shows the respect Brawn has and can command. Mercedes need to take note of that moving forward and keep Ross on the payroll for that reason amongst many.

    Vettel disrespected his team boss…fact.

    We have a true Schumacher on our hands and I mean that in his inability to drive with grace and exhibit even a little fairmindedness in his behaviour.

    If he wants to polarise public opinion on his success he is going about it the right way…..webber won’t take this lying down and why on earth should he…it could turn red bulls championship in the wrong direction….

    1. Andy says:

      I think that Vettel answers to Dr Marko, not Horner. Vettel wasn’t exactly the most popular driver before this race, his[mod] will do little to change this.

    2. Phil H. says:

      Totally agree

    3. Lol says:

      That has more to do with Nico being weak and Vettel being strong.

    4. Trent says:

      True indeed.

      Mind you, Rosberg is not Vettel.

      I’m already anticipating the awkward, PR driven patch-up job that will appear in the Redbull press releases and website. Spare us, please.

    5. CH says:

      Yeah, wondered if it was such a big deal, a violation of orders, why wouldn’t Horner tell him to give the place back, as there was plenty of time left…. but think Horner did not want to risk losing face again at thought of Seb disrespecting him a second time. Quite a contrast to the respect that Brawn has.

      1. Kimi4WDC says:

        No point? How do you explain common sense to a human with out it.

    6. Zombie says:

      Vettel’s job, like Schumacher’s was is to deliver world titles and make the best use of the efforts put in by his team. And his 3 titles on a trot and probably a 4th one on its way says that he is doing his job just fine. If Webber thinks he is better, he has another 18 races to beat Vettel.

  52. olivier says:

    Two words: Hungry Heidi

    What Vettel did was not very sportmanslike. He might have gained 10 extra points today, but he will have a fierce opponent in his own team mate for the rest of the year. No more nice talk & promises … go for it Webber! We’re off for a flat out in team battle.

    1. olivier says:

      On the other hand. Got to admire the racecraft and killer instinct of Vettel. It’s what makes him a Champion. No politics, just pure racing on the track. Great stuff to watch. It certainly did spice up today’s racing. Webber should do the same.

      1. Bomber says:

        Olivier

        Great race craft? Creeping up on an unsuspecting team mate thinking he is not going to be overtaken.

        Killer instinct-stabbing your team mate in the back-YES!

    2. brendan says:

      was 7 points,but your right it wasnt worth it,there are 425 points left to go for.

  53. Dudley says:

    Veto-Vettle strikes again. He is a Mean spirited, Spoiled, Bully who will be the cause of a death before he is finished!

    Webber is a gentleman, old school Driver.

    If I were the management of Red Bull I would make Vet-Vettle miss a race as punishment.

    A lesson for all the youngsters watching F1 that Bullies do NOT win!

    Red Bull gives you Bully power!

    1. Dave C says:

      Its Webber who’s the bully trying to throw his weight around over the last few years, just face it Vettel is as far beyond Webber as Alonso is beyond Massa, and you’re right bullies don’t win hence why Seb is 3 times world champion and Webber won nothing.

  54. Viking says:

    I’ve for a long time now defended Seb Vettel on various forums on the net as I’ve felt that he has been getting unfair critic from followers of other drivers simply becasue he happens to drive what has been percieved the best car… and cannot win without that advantage…

    But no more… I’ve had enough and am so disgusted with this [mod]spoilt brat… What drove me to this is his comments post race trying to make it out as a “mistake”… had he gone out and said “yeah I broke the team orders deliberatly because I want to win and I think I am so much better and more deserving than Mark to win” I would’ve still had some respect for him although I wouldn’t have appreciated his actions today… Both he and RBR lost a fan today… Nico Rosberg on the other hand won a fan… and I hope he can take it to the overrated one consistently this season…

    1. quattro says:

      [mod], he obviously realized after last few seasons, that in order to beat someone like Alonso, he will have to have a one sec per lap advantage…he has not got that anymore and is panicking.

      1. Spinodontosaurus says:

        Sour grapes.
        He won the 2011 and 2012 championships and never had a 1 second per lap advantage. Even in 2010 did he only once or twice have that much of an advantage.

        Keep clinging to your miss-guided belief that Vettel needs the best car. He showed last season and is showing now that he does not need it.

      2. Chris says:

        With 2 poles, 2 podiums and a win from 2 races?

      3. quattro says:

        Now tell me…how did he get that “win from 2 races”…There within lays the point.

    2. dean cassady says:

      I can’t really say it better than that Viking.
      I am impressed by the ability of Vettel, but this kind of thing is so morally low.
      While no one compares to the legend, it reminds me of the Pironi pass; and ‘m thinking that Webber showed incredible restraint to not man handle the munchkin after the race.
      It is ugly.
      Over at Merc, civility, and new respect for Rosberg.

      Looking forward, I feel confident that we haven’t seen all of the fallout from this latest Vettel incident; which makes the season before us even more complex.

    3. Sebastian says:

      I agree that Vettel lying makes him seem weak in character. But you should applaud Hamilton for showing respect for Rosberg in the podium interview. He speaks like a true sportsman!

      It is good news that Rosberg is keeping up with Hamilton so far. But once they get the car more to Hamiltons preference I think you will see a different story.

    4. hero_was_senna says:

      Yep, much the same.
      I hated Schumacher letting Barrichello win some races, almost gifting them to him and then speaking as though his actions were honest.
      I love the drivers showing their true feelings.
      Webber made no secret of his feelings, whereas Vettel behaved like MSC after Austria 2002.

    5. Kimi4WDC says:

      Thank you.

  55. Dan says:

    Webber, Hamilton and Rosberg showed their class.

    Vettel showed he has no class.

    I think Rosberg should have been allowed to pass, but he would only be able to do so because of a team mistake on fuel in Lewis’ car, meaning its understandable.
    People need to realise, if Button hadn’t have been messed up in the pits and was pressuring the Mercs, then Rosberg would have been able to pass. It was a unique situation, which is right in theory, even if slightly immorally wrong.

    But Vettel is a joke, Webber had him covered today, but Vettel turned his engine up, when Webber had turned his down and unfairly won the race.

    I lost a lot of respect for Vettel today, yet gained a whole lot more for Webber, Nico and Lewis, with their actions and reactions.

    1. Santo Casto says:

      If Hamilton’s car was under-fueled then that means his car was lighter from the beginning which means he had an advantage over Nico since the start of the race.
      This doesn’t bode well for Nico if Hamilton is having a preferential treatment from the beginning of the season.

      1. Knoxville says:

        they had the same fuel load. hamilton lost the majority of his chasing the red bulls. so in a nutshell, rosberg had slightly more fuel compared to hamilton but we’re just talking mere fractions more. As they were under fuelling their car to go for a more agressive strategy here today because a lap of fuel lost can contribute to few tenths of a second. also, due to the factor of rain and the likeliness of a safety car may pose as a chance to save fuel. afterall its malaysia with its underpredictablity of rain and thunderstorms.

        honestly, please just think logically here.

        what happened today was just team orders so that both cars manage to selvage the maximum points possible with respect to the minimum risk. The nearest threat from behind is no where near as button had a problem with his pits and the redbulls were too far off due to mercedes slightly bad stint with the hard compounds. Given there were only a couple more laps to go and the nearest redbull was around 6 seconds ahead its virtually impossible to play catch up given the marginal position both drivers are in. obviously rosberg felt robbed from a podium position but in these conditions, its just the way it is. racing.

      2. Phil H. says:

        James said that Lewis used more fuel battling the Bulls (he was not underfueled). So in a way, knowing that kind of makes Brawn’s decision fair.

      3. madmax says:

        It doesn’t really make it fair as it’s Hamilton’s fault he was too aggressive as he admitted too and why he said Rosberg should have had the podium.

      4. Sankalp Sharma says:

        Wait What? Where did Hamilton “battle the Bulls”, the one overtake he did was during the pitstops. He was profligate with his fuel. Yet Rosberg had to pay the price :( — And yes, Hamilton’s admits that.

      5. Dan says:

        In fairness, I think it was a unique position.

        Basically there was no threat in front or behind, so because there has been a team error (fuel) then neither car will benefit of lose out as a result.

        I think they would do the same if roles were reversed.

        Good thing is though, two races in and Mercedes are improving, they are making small steps and learning along the way.

      6. Richard says:

        I suspect that Brawn knew Hamilton would defend vigorously against Nico if he tried to overtake (its in Hamiltons DNA) and run out of fuel or tyres or both (or worse still, have an accident). “I want to bring both cars home” he said … I totally get his thinking. Don’t like it but I get it.

      7. Richard says:

        In the current formula Ross Brawn was quite right to do what he did, and Gary Anderson confirmed it. If you don’t like it argue against the Formula not the team principles that have to make hard decisions. I say bring back durable tyres and bring back refueling where the racing was full on throughout.

  56. Charalampos says:

    Vettel passing Webber was a joke. I would be interested to see if Red Bull can find a wise and golden solution to apply fairness to both drivers, but I doubt they will do something drastical. Ce la vie

    1. Sebastian says:

      They do, but Vettel is better and they know it!

    2. JC says:

      I’d like to see telemetry and fuel maps on both cars….

  57. knoxploration says:

    Here’s the question we need answered, James: Had Vettel’s engine already been turned down before the overtake as well, or not?

    I’d be really grateful if you could get a clear answer on this. (And also whether Sebastian was clearly told he was not allowed to pass; “Sebastian, this is silly” is not an order.)

    I find Mark’s reaction rather disingenuous given that he did basically the exact same thing in Silverstone 2011, or rather, tried to. He admitted quite directly afterwards that he ignored team orders, which makes it a bit silly to get upset when his teammate does the same.

    However, if their cars weren’t equal at that point, it’s a different story.

    1. KonPatTsh says:

      That’s a good question! After his pit stop Webber must be told by his engineer if there is another car coming or not. They were side by side when he came out of the pitlane, his tyres were not yet at the right temp. he fought hard to vettel but could not match him. So when did he turn down his engine exactly? his engineer didn’t check the gap to the following car?

    2. [MISTER] says:

      Suzi Perry asked Christian Horner if both drivers had their engines turned down. Christian tried twice to avoid a direct answer, but Suzi kept on it until Christian said “I think they were both on the same engine mode, I need to check”.

      Really, he needs to ckeck? He’s the team principal and when he has something like this on the track, he should’ve known on what kind of engine mode is each driver. Terrible PR from RBR.

      1. knoxploration says:

        Thanks for the info, Mister. It floors me, frankly, that most of the F1 press doesn’t even think to ask basic questions like this.

        So it seems that Sebastian’s car was in the same condition as Mark’s. We still don’t know if a direct order had been given prior to the move.

        “This is silly” is a wishy-washy response from Horner to his driver’s actions; if an order had been given and disobeyed I would expect a direct order from the team to surrender the place.

        Frankly, I put most of the blame here squarely on Horner’s shoulders. He has been too opaque with the press, and in this instance he has singularly failed to manage either of his drivers’ interests. Most of the time I think he does a superb job, but in this area he fails badly and could learn a thing or two from Brawn.

        And Red Bull’s PR response has been woefully inadequate, too. They should’ve been answering questions like these themselves, and squashing the scandal with as much information as possible.

        Instead, the internet is alight with people suggesting the lily-white Webber has been wronged by something akin to the devil (despite the fact that Webber has tried to do exactly the same thing himself in the past), and Red Bull is surrounded by a scandal of hurricane proportions.

        There’s a lot to be ashamed of here, and much of it has nothing to do with moves on the track.

    3. I know says:

      Neither Vettel’s nor Webber’s engines were turned down: they both set fastest laps right before the overtake. Webber and Vettel were both told to take it easy, which Vettel ignored, forcing Webber to respond. That was disobedient from Vettel, but he did not overtake Webber just because of different engine setups.

  58. Peter says:

    How about banning team radios and stop remote-control drivers from the pit lane.

    1. Anne says:

      It´s not going to work when drivers would speak up about everything during interviews after the race. Media and fans will be informed anyway

  59. Nick says:

    This is turning into a rather entertaining season already! You have to feel for Webber but am I right in thinking it was similar circumstances in Turkey in 2010? Also the hollow apologies are a bit poor: “I didn’t ignore it on purpose but I messed up in that situation.” Err, yes. And Hamilton for that matter too. If you’re that sorry you’ve gained a position by ignoring orders/your team holding back your faster team-mate you would have sorted it on track. You can be as sorry as you like when the points are in the bag.

  60. Mike J says:

    ‘’’In an eventful race that harked back to the Summer of 2010, Vettel asked his Red Bull team to move Webber out of the way as he was “too slow” and there was a very cold atmosphere between the Red Bull drivers as they took to the podium.’’’….

    But all the drivers were doing their own race as they were on different strategies at the start. If Vettel is fast enough, pass Webber then.…so Vettel wants team orders for his own promotion?…hmmmmm

    Vettels face in the press room and on the podium gave it away! (as if the radio messages didn’t!!!!). The Red Bull wall after the race with lack of celebrations gave it away! Vettel and team management knew he did wrong. The kid in the lolly shop that got caught. !!!. Neweys cheeky ‘pat’ on Webbers backside on the podium with no reaction from Webber said it all as these two guys NORMALLY get on great.
    Red Bulls hugh PR machine suddenly ground to a stop and froze.

    I really doubt now that these two will ever get back to any sort of relationship. Vettel broke the golden rule. I have always agreed with team orders (I know I may cope flack but that’s my opinion) when required. You work for THE TEAM. THE TEAM provides you the seat. You drive the car for the TEAM. Without THE TEAM putting the dollars up don’t have a seat (apart from back markers teams). When you are in for a chance of the WDC, then you can call your tunes!!!

    A lot of people are bringing up the Silverstone issue of ‘maintain the gap Mark’. Whilst Mark made his point clear in that race and pushed his point, in the end he followed TEAM ORDERS. If you cannot trust your team mate who can you trust?

    If Nico ignored team orders today what would have happened? If Rubens disobeyed team orders in 2002 in Austria what would have happened? DC and McLaren many times…The list can go on and on. However by breaking team orders Vettel gave him an extra 7 points and a 14 point turnaround to his team mate. Time will tell how vital that will become.

    People forget that apart from teams, drivers ‘form’ agreements between themselves. Was this broken too? I am old enough to remember seeing Imola 1982 and my thoughts crossed to this as soon as the podium started. Just didn’t see Webber throw anything into the crowd!!!!!.

    In the end Seb had 10 laps to change his ‘bad decision’. Yet to issue an apology after the race to something he knew was wrong is the same as robbing a bank.
    “Seb”. Sorry, I knew it was wrong, I was told not to do it, then I did it, can you accept my apology please…….
    “Judge”…thanks but no thanks…..take him away!!!

    Damage control…YES ….was that Marko I heard telling him to say that.

    (odds on this will break all time JAonF1 comments total)

    Finally, great respect for Lewis after the race and well done for Nico to do what he didn’t want to…

    1. Dan says:

      “However by breaking team orders Vettel gave him an extra 7 points and a 14 point turnaround to his team mate. Time will tell how vital that will become.”

      This is Vettels problem now, Webber doesn’t trust him now and can quite easily make it a lot harder for Vettel to win the championship.

      Mark will not be leaving room for Vettel next time, I can see Mark thinking, it’s either I stay in front or we both crash out.

    2. JB says:

      “I am old enough to remember seeing Imola 1982 and my thoughts crossed to this as soon as the podium started.”

      My thoughts exactly – shades of Villeneuve and Pironi – and we all know how that ended.

      1. Craig in Manila says:

        I was thinking the exact same thing.

    3. Ahmed says:

      Silverstone 2011, Webber did not follow team orders. I think you need to watch a replay, mark was advised to “maintain the gap” etc i stay behind, he ignored team orders and tried to attack Vettel until the finish line. The difference was that Vettel was too good and did not let him past.
      Webber was pretty open after that race saying he wont listen to team orders, and got applauded for going against team orders, yet he want to cry now when Vettel does the same thing?
      Maybe its just that Vettel was successful when Webber wasnt???

      1. Mike J says:

        Ahmed. But remember…..RB always stated that they had no team orders…..Webber made it clear after the race that he kept pressure on seb as to keep up with Alonso in case he retired. RB in 2011 always stated that they let their drivers race!!. Webber disagreed with having something imposed on him that was not agreed and against the team ethos. In the end webber made a point and finished behind vettel. Whether he could have passed or not is just speculation on everyone’s behalf.
        2011 was also different to now it that they didn’t have agreements before the race started, like they do now.
        So Silverstone 2011 is pretty irrelevant.
        Bottom line is the RB now have agreements in place. Possibly as a result of 2011? Both drivers were advised to implement the agreement yesterday. One driver did, one didn’t. One has apologized unconditionally, the other feels let down.
        Not sure why Vettel supporters are still trying to defend him.
        Sure is going to make the rest of the season at RB pretty interesting…..just hope both have no car issues, equal performance and no dodgy strategies.

  61. Christer Hammarström says:

    Why give seven points away to Fernando and a teammate that cant win the WCD. Mark have had his chanses.Only sad that Kimi lost points to Seb.

    1. Harry says:

      It does cause all sorts of problem going forward for Red Bull. How can they ever expect Mark to follow instructions, when Seb has blatantly showed he will not do the same.

      Tricky. Red Bull will have to keep these two far away from each other on track, yet pick up as many CC points as possible. Fun times for the engineers!

      1. Tealeaf says:

        Mark never follows instructions anyway, silverstone 2 years ago Horner ordered Mark to stay behind Seb but he ignored it Horner confirmed that, they only reason he didn’t pass is because he couldn’t!
        Anyway Mark would never help Seb he is jealous of him, younger, faster and more successful, even at Brazil he nearly cost Vettel the title, he would rather Alonso win than his team claim another drivers title, the good thing is Seb doesn’t need help from Webber to win the title, well done for making the move to show who was the boss unlike Nico who is confined to the number 2 role now even though he has proven in winter testing and race pace so far this seasson he is faster than Hamilton, that’s a farce.

      2. JC says:

        Agree…

      3. Andy says:

        Webber has always had the rough end of the stick from Red Bull, I suspect this is the final straw. Webber will either retire at then end of the season or go elsewhere. I can’t image a queue forming for his seat while Dr Marko lurks in the background.

    2. Wayne says:

      There are many reasons why. Morals, honour, truth, sportsmanship are just a few of the most obvious ones.

      How about this alternative? “Why risk 42 points for your team and potentially hand BOTH the WDC and the constructors to a competitor?” There is nothing wrong with being a fan of any driver but people who blindly defend every action of their chosen driver infuriate me.

      1. Niner says:

        “Morals, honour, truth, sportsmanship are just a few of the most obvious ones…”

        That’s all well and good, but is that the reason we watch F1? Has it ever been?

        As someone who sat through the Senna/Prost, Mansell/Senna, Schumacher/Barrichello years, I have to say yesterday’s race is a storm in a tea cup, historically speaking.

        I agree, morals, honour, truth, sportsmanship are some of the characteristics of some of the greatest champions of all time, but are hardly the ones that defined them. Competitiveness, ruthlessness, determination, and lack of a corporate-mindedness – i.e., the refusal to be an “employee” who’s merely content with taking a salary – confer a far greater advantage in winning Championships than the former.

        Is that a character deficit in Seb? Was it in Senna? Schumacher? Mansell? They all had their own ways of justifying their behaviour, in order to race and be number one. The list of drivers whose mantle was made of the above is a fairly long one if time is taken to analyse it.

        If we find that uncomfortable, then I’d encourage watching the races in which Barrichello out-qualified and out-raced Schumacher but was told to “hold stations” in which F1 was denied a race and was given a procession.

        If the F1 grid was comprised solely of individuals and teams who were morally upright and had the highest levels of integrity beyond reproach, I think we can all make an educated guess how many cars there’d be racing on a Sunday.

        Personally, I think Seb still has a long way to go before his legacy achieves the stature of Senna and Schumacher, the two “greatest drivers of all-time” whose on-track record of controversy is part and parcel of why they that title remains theirs.

    3. Billy says:

      “a teammate (webber) that can’t win the WDC”

      Correct me if i’m wrong, but if Mark had won the race he would have been equally leading the WDC!?

      1. Greg (Aus) says:

        Went pretty close in 2010 too, but people have short memories…

      2. Yak says:

        He lead for part of last year too didn’t he? And he was pretty close to a WDC in 2010.

        But close isn’t the same as actually winning a WDC, and so far Mark hasn’t been able to put together a consistent enough season to do that.

        That said, I’m certainly not ruling Webber out as a contender. He wasn’t helped last year with all the car problems he had, and he’s shown he’s at least capable of being up the front. He just needs to get there and actaully stay there. Of course it’s easy enough to say that, but if he can keep getting race starts like he did this time it’ll certainly help him.

      3. Random 79 says:

        Yep, you’re right. Funny that…

    4. quattro says:

      Ehh, it has several names that good old thing. Dignity, integrity, respect. Obviously, not all fans require any of that of their champions these days.

    5. Anne says:

      Vettel was complaning about Webber early in the race. He asked the team on the radio to move Webber away. Why you mentioned Alonso? He wasn´t a factor today. That´s why I don´t understand Vettel´s attitude

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        It may have something to do with the fact that Vettel knows he hasn’t got the car advantage that he needs to beat Alonso in a fair fight?

  62. Lloyd .P says:

    Mark beat Seb fair and square. [mod]

    1. Spinodontosaurus says:

      He didn’t…

  63. Random 79 says:

    First of well done to Mark – a very good start and a good result…not what it should have been, but P2 from P5 is still a good race :)

    Shame about Alonso. Silly mistake (hitting Vettel) that led to an even bigger mistake (not pitting). From there it always seemed to me like there was something missing throughout the race – he should have been out front with the Red Bulls & Mercedes.

    Speaking of Mercedes, very good result for the team – I for one have underestimated them this year, and those who underestimated Rosberg might have to do some re-thinking.
    Respect for Rosberg for following the orders – even if he did argue quite strongly ;) – and respect to Lewis for acknowledging Rosberg’s performance.

    Absolute shame for FI – they were looking good up until the wheel nut failures. Maybe it’s better to stick with what works.

    Congratulations to Bianchi, a solid 13th – even if was due to some attrition.

    Finally Vettel: Says he messed up, but didn’t mean to. I doubt that; I think he knew damn well what he was doing at the time. Apologies after the fact don’t really cut it.

    But at least they didn’t do a Turkey :)

    1. Random 79 says:

      Oh yes…almost forgot. Kudos to Hamilton for the pit stop of the day :)

      1. tara_185 says:

        +1
        Provided the lols

    2. Equin0x says:

      Vettel is the world champion and quite probably alongside Alonso as the best drivers in the world, how dare Horner order Vettel to stay behind Webber??? imagine if Seb lost the title by 1-7 points this year if he stayed behind Webber because the team didn’t want to risk a accident!!! If it was the other way round and Webber was ordered to stay behind Vettel the outcry from the english speaking fans would be enormous, Seb done the right thing, they were on same engine mode he was faster than Mark and he rightfully won the race.
      As goes for Nico, what a kick in the teeth, now how overrated is Hamilton eh, burned all his fuel in a futile attempt to stay with the cruising Redbulls whilst Nico could easily keep pace with a leaner mix, then runs low on fuel then crys to Ross to make Nico stay behind! what a joke just face it Nico is faster and was also catching at Melbourne before the gearbox failed, that statement made on the podium was fake when he said Nico should have been 3rd because if he meant it he would have let Nico through, if it wasn’t for Mclaren’s pit stop blunder Button would have taken both of them if Nico wasn’t allowed through, 1 thing is certain Nico is faster.

      1. Anne says:

        But Alonso was not there today. Raikkonen was not a problem either. And Hamilton didn´t have the tyres nor the car to challenge Vettel.
        I think RB could have used a pit stop strategy to put Vettel ahead Webber. But again Vettel was safe in P2 because some big names were not there challenging him.

      2. Dan says:

        “how dare Horner order Vettel to stay behind Webber???”

        Are you serious?

        Webber was faster than Vettel, they were both ordered to turn the engines down, Vettel didn’t and morally cheated.

        Forget losing the championship by 1-7 points this is the beginning of the season and they are equal.

      3. JL says:

        MW had plenty of time to turn his engine revs. back up – so how can you know that he was faster. Vettel was clearly faster earlier in the race as well. He won by less than 7 points 2 of his 3 championships, so he was right to go for it

      4. ForWhatIt'sWorth says:

        ++1 The only reason Vettel was able to get that close to Webber was because RBR told Webber to turn down his engine and reassured him Vettel would do the same.

        What I saw was the closest thing an F1 driver can come to cheating.

        Not worthy of a world champion.

      5. Yak says:

        Imagine if Webber loses the championship by a few points now, after Vettel disobeyed orders.

        Mark might not be a multiple WDC, but he’s been close to a WDC before, and there’s nothing to say that this isn’t a year where he’ll be in the running right to the end.

      6. Peter says:

        I think you forget who pays the bills. If Red Bull want to sit Vettel in the back of the garage for the whole year or tell him to push off (like Ferrari did to Raikkonen) then they can. They’re his boss. They choose not to because he wins races for them, for now.
        So, more like “How dare Vettel disobey Horner?”
        No driver is bigger than the team. Many arrogant drivers and world champions have discovered that to their detriment over the years. Frank Williams was particularly well known to axe even the best at the time. Just ask Damon Hill or Jacque Villeneuve.

      7. Bomber says:

        Mansell!

  64. Nige says:

    [mod] Webber can feel rightly a grieved and shouldn’t believe any team orders going forward. It is ironic how the teams and drivers who said they wouldn’t be involved in team orders all benefitted from them today. No one was happy on the podium!! At least Alonso and Ferrari had something to smile about today.

    1. Random 79 says:

      Um…what would Alonso & Ferrari be smiling about?

  65. DK says:

    Lewis just wanted to say hi to his mates in McLaren !

    I don’t understand why Alonso didn’t pit for a new nose. Now it is interesting to see how Ferrari willing to let Massa race.

    Looks like every top teams and are evenly matched so some interesting racing ahead expected. Besides, expect to see team mates rivalry in all top throughout the season!!

    The dain shod have come an hour late for this race…..

    1. Anne says:

      Ferrari and Alonso thought he could stay there for about 5 laps. Then pit for tyres and frontwing together. Well they were wrong. I think it was irresponssible from Ferrari to keep him on track.

      As for Massa, today Massa was allowed to race. He had a bad start and then all he did was to finish in P5. Sorry I don´t think Massa can blame neither the team nor Alonso. It seems he can´t find the right pace. He needs to be more aggressive. Massa missed a big chance to play a big role all on his own

  66. William says:

    Vettel gearing up to join Ferrari?

    1. Tomby says:

      Nobody wants him there…

      1. Scuderia McLaren says:

        Wrong. They’d take him in a second. But why go?

      2. Sebastian says:

        Alonso won’t want him because he is too good…

      3. Max Smoot says:

        Alonso won’t want him because he can’t be trusted…

      4. Peter says:

        Ferarri never run two number one drivers in the team. They will only take Vettel when Alonso leaves or loses his edge.

      5. JL says:

        surely not Alonso, he would be easily beaten like he was by rookie Hamilton

      6. Linda says:

        If Alonso keeps it up, many would want Vettel there, believe me. A Ferrari fan here.

    2. Tank says:

      @William – would the Scuderia be interested anymore? Here is clearly a guy who thinks he is bigger than the team. Ferrari will always be bigger than whoever drives for them.

      1. William says:

        Vettel will only join Ferrari as their number one driver, and as such this situation wouldn’t have happened. He would have been waived through by the team instead.

  67. quest says:

    After a farcical race like this, one has to wonder if F1 is really worth following. What is the point if the top 4 places are going to decided in meeting rooms rather than on the track. These self absorbed clowns have no respect for the ticket paying public.

    And to top it off all the post race drama. If this is what I wanted to see, I would go watch soap operas.

    1. Wayne says:

      It was not decided in meeting rooms, the drivers decided it all on the track until it was obviously prudent for the teams to protect their 300 million dollar investment and use their TEAM cars to bring home the points. If they had done this from the start of the race I’d be with you.

      1. quest says:

        It came up multiple times in case of both teams that they had agreed to this stuff beforehand. A large part of this million dollar investment comes from people like you and me going to races and paying for our tv channel subscriptions.I expect more. If you don’t it’s your choice.

        People travel huge distances spending time and hard earned money thinking they will get to watch the top driver race to the best of other ability. Something like this leaves a bad taste.

      2. Spinodontosaurus says:

        I seem to recall you criticising Red Bull for their team orders in Silverstone 2011, yet when Vettel is on the receiving end of these orders you decide to support them?

    2. Well if you don’t like it then no, F1 really isn’t worth following. It’s always been this way – about the only thing that’s remained constant in the sport over the years is team orders (even/especially when they were banned!)

  68. Eamon says:

    Vettel did what most other great champions would have done, there is no way Senna or Schumacher would have sat in second when they could win.

    Vettel is ruthless just like said drivers, you have to take your chances when they come. He might need those extra 7 points to be champion.

    It is strange to me that Sebastian gets criticised for doing what a racer should do, if not for him the race would have been average. He created some excitement by doing what I and many others have wanted for a while which is for drivers to ignore team orders and race to the end. Look at Nicos position at Mercedes, he would have been better off taking Hamilton and deal with the consequences at least he would have shown some backbone

    I also have a feeling if roles were reversed Mark would be praised. Seb can’t win with some people, they have decided he is arrogant and everything he does is seen that way, be it a celebration or a quote Seb is usually seen to be in the wrong, today is a perfect example.

    1. James Allen says:

      If they were racing, maybe

      But not once instructions have been given

      1. Amritraj says:

        Mark was adamant that the team issued instructions to hold station, James.

        Are you suggesting that Red Bull is now denying this, that Seb and Mark were free to race and that Seb won fairly?

        Or maybe, I have completely misunderstood your comment’s frame of reference.

        Regards.

      2. James Allen says:

        Not suggesting that. It’s clear that the orders were given and Seb disobeyed them

        Horner confirmed this, as stated in the story

      3. Alexander says:

        Orders are orders – but what I wonder is why Webber was told to turn down the engine?

        It is what it is now although I think Seb did the the right thing.

        Mark is not regarded as the second driver publicly, right? both driver should have an equal chance of winning the D.C.? – the top drivers race to win and today the MGMT interfered with the drivers ability to race fair (even though the overtaking phase was exiting!)

        Maybe the RBR MGMT also owe both Seb and Mark an apology?

      4. jake says:

        The thing that is bugging me about this, is that mark has done this time and time again.

        Think to Silverstone 2011 where he was told not to attack Vettel yet still did. And no one said anything.

        And Brazil last year when Webber squeezed Vettel into turn one which lead him to drop lots of points.

        There both as bad as each other really, and to be honest i’m thankful. I don’t want to be waking up early on a Sunday morning to watch formation flying.

      5. jake says:

        Places*

      6. Doohan says:

        I’m sorry but what did you expect mark to do in Brazil?
        Let his engineer guide him through the first corner like it was NASCAR?
        “You have see low, seb is low. He’s passed all clear”

      7. Spinodontosaurus says:

        @Doohan
        Expecting Mark _not_ to squeeze Vettel in the first corner – which resulted him in loosing the ground he did leading to the accident – is not much of an ask to be honest!

      8. Yak says:

        Silverstone 2011 was a bit of a different situation, but yes Webber did disobey an order. In Brazil last year he raced Vettel at the beginning when he still had the WDC in the bag, but later when Vettel needed to get through the pack, Webber let him through, so I don’t really see that one as a problem.

        That said, who’s to say things haven’t changed at Red Bull? Maybe their previous position of, “Both drivers are free to race,” has been amended to include, “But seriously, if we give you orders, you WILL follow them.” The championship last year of course was only won by a few points. The stable regs have tightened up the fight near the front. Lotus have taken a win already, Mercedes are looking strong, Ferrari are looking strong, McLaren will no doubt come back at some point (even if it is too late for a WDC fight), Force India are looking fairly strong, Sauber might put their bit in now and then… it wouldn’t surprise me if Red Bull have felt the need to play a more controlled game now.

        Maybe it’s kind of a good thing for RB, for Vettel to have pulled this stunt now without any bad on track consequences. Better he does it now and they thump him back down to the ground than for him to disobey orders in some other situation and cause himself or another driver a big problem.

        The great karmic retribution would be if later in the season he runs the same drivetrain elsewhere and it fails on him because he pushed it just that little too much in Malaysia. Haha.

      9. Damian Byrne says:

        Correct James. Instructions were given. That’s the whole point, they weren’t racing. But Vettel knew if overtook there would be no ramifications, as Webber pointed out, ‘he will be protected’. That’s why he’s a 3 time champ. Reminds me of Senna, you can always apologise after the fact, or better still, call it a misunderstanding.

      10. Craig in Manila says:

        Correct.
        Amazingly (or not), RBR had ten laps (after the overtake) to tell Seb to move back to second position and they (seemingly) did nothing.

      11. hero_was_senna says:

        Reminds you of Senna? Really? If you had said MSC, I wouldn’t have argued.
        There were elements of Senna that showed complete ruthlessness against other drivers, but it was more symptomatic of the era.
        Back in the 1980′s F1 was run by men, Senna, Mansell, Berger, Piquet, Rosberg etc.
        Senna was asked by Mclaren to let Berger past to win the 1991 Japanses GP, as thanks for his work that season.
        Senna lifted off the throttle coming out of the chicane on the last lap and neither he nor Berger were happy about the teams decision. These guys want to win on merit, not because the team arranges it.
        It’s for this reason that I cannot rate Hakkinen as a great, after all his first 2 victories were gifted to him, Jerez 1997 by Mclaren and Williams colluding to keep Irvine away from helping MSC win the championship and the DC having to let him past in Melbourne 1998.
        Schumacher did everything in his power to break every record and Vettel seems to share the same mentality, but at least be honest about your actions.

      12. Fer says:

        James, do you really think that Vettel did was something terrible? Come on, he has the right to disagree with such team orders unless that stated in his contract. It’s only the second race, for God’s sake. It’s silly to use team orders at this point. Any self-respecting champion would have done what Vettel did(at least Schumi, Senna, Alonso would). Vet shouldn’t have apologized. If anything, RB should be apologizing to him.

      13. Yak says:

        But they weren’t team orders to keep Webber in the higher position as such, like Ferrari were doing last year. They were team orders to maximise the team’s result.

        Like it or not, a driver is just one employee among hundreds of hard working people in an F1 team. It partly comes down to the driver on Saturday and Sunday, but there a lot of clever people on the wall and in the factory who have a lot more information, and a lot greater capacity for foresight given they’re not hurtling along at 300km/h at the time. It’s on one hand an individual battle, but at the same time also a team sport. Vettel decided he was bigger than the team and disobeyed an order from his boss, as well as stabbing his team mate in the back. Whether he was fully aware of what he was doing or it was just a case of his desire to win clouding his judgement, either way the driver/team sync was lost. In a sport involving this much money, where the smallest of details can change the results, that’s not a good thing.

      14. Max Smoot says:

        What’s all this talk (here and earlier above) about ‘great’ champions and ‘self-respecting champions’? You cite Schumacher, Senna and Alonso, all geniuses behind the wheel admittedly but flawed individuals otherwise with a sense of entitlement that has led them all into tainted successes. James Allen’s book on Schumacher was titled The Edge of Greatness for a reason.

      15. Luke Clements says:

        My guess is another stuff up by RBR trying to manage a SV win. Webber had over 4 secs lead when SV pitted for last time. I’ll bet this was e exact lap they told Webber to turn the engine down, which he did, as can be seen by the times…why else would he lose 4 seconds out of nowhere?RBR geniuses probably thought that was enough to get SV just in front, but didn’t work out that way & Webber popped out ahead, so cue the dummy spit from SV. And RBR management look like the idiots they clearly are. Webber showed true class & integrity( something SV certainly has zero of) by not punching SV’s lights out at race end, he must have been tempted. But for Webber, I’m a true RBR hater, used to love them but not anymore. Hope to see either Webber drive straight into SV at some stage or even better, the RBR mechanics “accidently” not get tyres ready for SV pit stop in near future.

      16. Spinodontosaurus says:

        Vettel probably pitted early to cover off Hamilton from undercutting him.

      17. I know says:

        “And RBR management look like the idiots they clearly are.”

        Say that to the management of a team that has won three consecutive constructors (and drivers) championships.

      18. Mike J says:

        Thats a great point Luke and one i was trying to work out. Webber had a 4+ sec lead over Vettel before VET stop. Have to look at the FIA website. Where did the 4sec go as webbers last stop was very quick? I tend to agree with you.

      19. Tealeaf says:

        James are the British fans jealous of Vettel’s success and over shadowing Hamilton?? hypocrisy comes to mind, if it was the other way round and Mark was ordered not to pass Seb like silverstone 2 years ago the english fans would have an outcry, Webber ignored the orders from that race but didn’t have the ability to pass also he ignored orders at Interlagos to help Seb as well. Horner confirmed they were on the same engine mapping its Seb’s natural speed that passed Mark and Webber knew it was coming for a couple of laps, you’re making out he was caught napping, face it Seb is the best driver and he was racing to win, he did the right thing, just wish Nico didn’t.
        Also if Hamilton was ordered to stay behind Rosberg imagine the british press!!! but at least I know and you know Nico is faster even if he not allowed to fight Hamilton on track.

      20. Anne says:

        So? Alonso won that race. I guess both RB lost.
        And Hamilton said that Nico deserved the podium. Al least he showed class and aknowlege the situation.

    2. Mohamad Rizal says:

      Senna did give Gerhard Berger the win in Japanese Grand Prix 1991.

      Well, remember British Grand Prix 2011, Mark also disobeyed team orders to hold position when he was running third behind Vettel.

      Unfortunately, he failed to make it stick but Vettel did.

      1. Mike J says:

        How do you know that Webber failed to make it stick in 2011?. Maybe making his point and then obeying team orders has just as much merit.

      2. quest says:

        Webber’s own words after Silverstone 2011.

        “If Fernando retires on the last lap we are battling for the victory so I was fine until the end. Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place. Seb was doing his best and I was doing my best.”

        http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/07/11/motorsport.f1.webber.vettel/index.html

      3. Mohamad Rizal says:

        What I can remember in British Grand Prix 2011, he was repeatedly asked by his team to hold station. Alonso was 16 seconds ahead at that time. But Webber still pressurizing Vettel till the last lap. I don’t think that he’s trying to make a point and then obeying team orders because he did try to pass Vettel few times during that stage… :-)

    3. Bradley says:

      Most of us like to see fair racing between teammates.

      But this time, Webber had his engine turned down, Vettel did not. That harkens back to Turkey, when Vettel tried to get past with his engine in a stronger mode than Webber’s.

      The difference is that back then, Vettel had an engine mode advantage due to team orders. This time, he had it due to ignoring team orders.

      I’d be fully in support of Vettel taking Webber on with equal engine modes – but I’m not going to cheer him for leaving his engine turned up when both drivers have been instructed to turn them down equally.

      1. Mitchel says:

        +1.

        It’s taken a lot of posts to get to the one that I agree with the most!

      2. KonPatTsh says:

        They were fighting for a complete lap+4croners. They were on the same engine mode! as said by Christian Horner. Do you think a non-fighting Webber with engine mode turned down on Cold Hard tire will be as fast as a fighting vettel on full engine mode on medium (quickest) tire in good temperature + 2 DRS zones?

    4. Wayne says:

      Disagree, VET is an EMPLOYEE and he had an agreement and trust of his team-mate. He disobeyed his employer and broke the trust between him and his team-mate. These men are human beings first and foremost, you can’t make excuses for this behaviour because of the job they do.

    5. yassin says:

      The question is, has Vettel won in the past where the team gave Webber order’s? Yes he has.

      But in a way I agree with you, full racing till half season then the team back a driver with the most points.

    6. Craig D says:

      It’s not as simply as that. Drivers are employed by the team and have a responsibility towards it, something which Ferrari often states. It’s one of the unique conflicts of this sport.

      You have to think long term too. If I was Webber I’d think, “Screw you, Seb.” The team friction and emotional distraction could prove more costly than 7 points. And by that I mean by points too in terms of future fights and lack of car conservation when required; there’ll be no bringing cars safely to the finish now if Webber is in a similar position as Vettel today.

      It was great for the viewer but it detracts from Vettel’s character and the team now have to waste energy dealing with the fallout of this. The team will be fighting itself rather than their competitors.

    7. Harrison Vrbanjac says:

      I think team orders were wrong here because seven points is to much to ask for nowadays, look at 2007, 2008, 2010 and 2012 championships all decided less than seven point. Anyways Vettel should been honest by his intensions with team to be fair with Webber before last pitstop, because Webber maybe would choose medium tire instead then.

    8. Jonathan says:

      with a bit of luck this will come back to bite Vettel. Team orders are not only about points results. Pirelli take far too much flack for what happens during a race. There is far more at risk – a tyre only has to last until the next stop or the end of the race whilst the engine may well have to survive another 2 races. That can be a far more limiting factor.

      If it was as simple as just the tyres I would have expected Mark to unleash his engine and drive away from Vettel. Vettel is a fool – we have seen him take his own team mate out driving like that. I hope he has an engine failure – it would be no more than a bit of Karma.

    9. Random 79 says:

      To be honest, I was a little on Vettel’s side – he did the wrong thing, but he is a champion and that’s what champions do. They take their opportunities & that’s fine

      Apologising to Webber after the race is useless, but at least he did apologise.

      My gripe is that after apologising he said that he didn’t mean to i.e. he didn’t know what he was doing.

      I’m sorry but when you’re racing wheel to wheel with your team mate (or anyone) for three or four corners straight, you know damn well what you’re doing – he might as well say yes there were team orders, but yes I ignored them.

      At least that would have been honest.

    10. Ahmed says:

      +1000. Vettel will get criticised no matter what. Webber disobeys team orders and tries to overtake Vettel in Silverstone 2011, Vettel defends and stays ahead, yet Webber is applauded for not listening to team orders???

      Vettel had every right, as he was being held up by Webber for majority of the race. He almost lost 2nd and 3rd places because of being stuck behind a slow Webber. His engineer, even told him to be patient several times, by the end of the race he had enough and took matters into his own hands!

      Well done Seb, pure 100% racing! Not team orchestrated results aka Mercedes and Ferrari

  69. Rocky says:

    Ok Sebastian, you’re going to have to dig deep here. Lets see if we can find some personality, humility and most importantly, truth.

  70. Muk says:

    It’s clear that Seb is always the winner… but i’m wretched that webber was not giving the chance to race, instead of being robbed. i.e why did seb get the undercut on the last stop? Webber should have been told to race to the end, then i could accept a defeat. It’s rare that webber matches vettel in a race, and would of made for better viewing for this die hard webber fan.
    What i want to know is….

    1. What lap was webber told to turn his engine down?

    2. How much fuel was left in both redbulls on the final stint? i.e did seb have a clear fuel mix advantage anyway?

    3. What lap were team orders given?

    If seb was to beat mark anyway, then fine. At least give webber a “chance” to race! sooooooo f&%!^&% pissed off!!!

    1. Theoddkiwi says:

      Its fairly standard practice in most teams that the positions after the last pitstop will remain.

      Its pretty rare to see team mates fighting over positions in the last stint.

      So the order would have been after they have settled down after the last pitstop once they confirmed they had not other threat.

    2. Ahmed says:

      Webber may have had his engine turned down after the last pit stop, but as soon as he saw Vettel closing in he turned his engine back to full power. This is evidenced by the straightline speed that Webber had, even when Vettel was in DRS zone on the straight, he could not get past Webber. If Webbers engine was turned down, Vettel would’ve driven past him quite easily on the straight.

      Why dont you talk about the dangerous swerve to the right by Webber, almost putting his teammate into the pitwall???

      What i remember is an absolutely breathtaking overtaking move on the outside of turn 4 (hardly an easy place to overtake) by Vettel to get the job done!

      1. mhilgtx says:

        +1

      2. Josh says:

        It was hardly a dangerous swerve, it was vettel who dived up on the inside where there was little room as he wanted the inside line. Webber does move a little to the right but still leaves room for him. You’re completely wrong with calling it a “dangerous swerve”.

  71. George says:

    Mark races plus thinks , Seb just thinks about racing. Seems Seb is under a lot of pressure this year and missing things the team is trying to tell him. It’s good he says sorry and learns from it.

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      I haven’t laughed that hard in ages… thankyou

  72. Richard says:

    I’ve heard the excuses Vettel is making, and I don’t buy it. He knew exactly what he was doing, and all it adds up to is extremely poor sportsmanship on his part. The bottom line is that he wanted to win and didn’t care how he did it regardless of team orders to hold position. Vettel and Schumacher are of the same ilk; win at all costs. Well I think they can learn something of how to behave from Nico Rosberg that desperately wanted to race Hamilton, but ultimately obeyed the team for the benefit of the team. It’s a pity he can’t be disqualified.

  73. Michael S says:

    Webber always says he will not comply with team orders and he is out there to win. Then he says he is upset because Vettel did not comply with team orders? Can’t have it both ways Mark. Last year Mark had ZERO interest helping Vettel to the title and actually raced him hard to the end…

    1. Jonathan Vogt says:

      1) Name one occasion when Mark has said he would not comply with team orders. He’s nothing if not a team player.
      2) He was allowed to race Seb toward the end of last year and did – what self-respecting racing driver is going to volunteer to help his team mate?

      What Vettel did today made me sick. I’ve no respect for him now. I have no time for people whose ego prevents them from seeing beyond their own self-interest.

      1. Fred from Sydney says:

        “what self-respecting racing driver is going to volunteer to help his team mate?”

        Maybe you should ask yourself that but with Webber and Vettel’s positions reversed.

      2. corvette says:

        hello remember silverstone 2011? Ithink seb just paid back :)

      3. Spinodontosaurus says:

        What Vettel did today is exactly what Webber was attempting to do in Silverstone 2011.

        Why are you people complaining about this? Are you crazy? It resulted in some of the best wheel to wheel racing in recent years, it was brilliant!
        I can guarantee you that the vast majority would be applauding Webber if the roles had been reversed. They did in 2011 in fact.

      4. Random 79 says:

        Well, he did say he wasn’t moving over for anyone, but on the other hand in the end he did move over and let Vettel through, and the team thanked him for it.

        (I’m talking about Brazil last year here)

      5. Michael S says:

        Abu Dhabi they asked him to not race Seb, but he did until his forced pit. In Brazil he raced Seb after the restart and they went 3 wide into corner one. When asked if he would support Seb he said he was out to win races first and foremost…

        Bottom line is I hate when any team uses team orders… I watch races to see people race. I also hated seeing Merc as Rosberg to hold station too

      6. CanadaF1Fan says:

        How about this?

        http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

        Webber admits ignoring team orders and trying to pass Vettel. The hypocrisy against seb is strong.

      7. Ahmed says:

        Here is one occasion, Vettel trying to win the 2012 World Championship in the last race against Alonso. Webber tried to race him instead of supporting his team mate.

        “(But) I don’t go there thinking I’ve got to be playing a team role as such.

        “I’m there for myself to get the best results possible and to do that I need to be part of the team.

        “So, no, I’m not going there thinking of (myself) in a supporting role at all.”

        http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8572555

  74. Stringers says:

    Vettel [mod] rather unsporting if you ask me. Webber’s Dad got it spot on, saying that (Webber) deserved better than that from Vettel. Rosberg for driver of the day, both for hustling Lewis & taking one for the team.

    1. Scott says:

      But Rosberg didn’t “take one for the team”, did he? He took one for Hamilton. It made no difference to the team whether he and Rosberg finished 3rd and 4th or 4th and 3rd.

      I’m sure fans of F1 would like to see drivers racing first and foremost, unless they’d genuinely rather see drivers cruising around “managing tyres” in pre-determined team formations. Is that what you’d prefer?

      1. Jonathan says:

        It is clear Lewis was not racing at the end. Both Lewis and Nico were asked to “take one” – not for the team today but for the sake of having a more reliable engine for another race. There is no way they could overtake the Red Bulls so saving engine life for another day makes perfect sense. With a bit of luck this will be shown when Vettel has an engine failure later in the season.

  75. Wilma the Great says:

    I don’t rank Sebs disobedience as a big mistake. He took a gamble on his own machinery not on Marks. I can’t understand Marks reaction, for he tried the same in Silverstone ’11 and Seb didn’t complain. Seb disobeyed the teams orders before and the team turned out to be happy with it in the end. They raced each other and that’s what I like to see, watching the race (same with Mercedes). I think, what matters is the outcome and that’s perfect for the team. What seems absolutely pathetic to me though, is the explanation done by Seb – I wouldn’t even apologize for trying to win.

    On a different note, Alonso wanted too much today. He ruined his race all by himself, not only by driving into Seb, but also by not pitting while his front wing was hanging by a thread.

    1. Bradley says:

      When Mark tried to get past Vettel, they were on equal engine settings. Here, Mark had turned his engine down and Vettel had not.

      Can you imagine Vettel setting his engine to the same mode as Webber’s, and then trying to get past? No? Then they’re not really comparable incidents.

      1. mhilgtx says:

        Haven’t watched the interviews yet. But do we know for a fact that they were on different engine settings?

      2. Wilma the Great says:

        I wasn’t comparing the efforts of the drivers but their disobedience of team orders. It’s rather frustrating for an F1 driver to be told, not to overtake.

      3. Lol says:

        Nonsense.

        At silverstone Vettel was told to slow down, turn engine down and preserve tyres. Webber ignored the team order and attacked Vettel until the finish but failed.

        And if you think Webber did not turn up his engine when Vettel attacked him today, you are very naive. Webber even p8ushed Vettel into the wall a la Schumacher do to Rubens. No outrage, no penalties?

        Bias is a nasty thing.

      4. Poyta says:

        Exactly

      5. CanadaF1Fan says:

        Do you really think that Mark didn’t turn the little knob on his wheel when seb was on his tail coming out of the pits? He had plenty of time to react to the attack, I’m sure he didn’t leave the engine turned down. His engineer must have told him that it was going to be tight with Seb, and given his own history of ignoring team orders…

  76. Gul says:

    Love love love Formula One! Dramas all around..feel sorry for Mark; was rooting for him to win (as a Lewis fan). Good work by a humble Lewis and happy for Merc. Though does anyone know why they were told to save fuel with 10 or more laps to go? Him going into McLaren pit was funny; though the joke soon turned on them after JB’s pitstop. Like I said love love F1! Shame about Force India too. Bring on China!

  77. Chromatic says:

    ooh. How will Mark get his revenge?

    [but in all honesty, would have been silly for SV to lose seven extra points on a day when his rivals both met with disasters. He had to maximise.
    This was not a Schumacher style[mod], he had to fight for the win. Mark lost the battle… he could have won it]

  78. Sebee says:

    To: Jenson
    From: Lewis

    Yo Jense,

    How are things? I dropped by, but you weren’t in.

    Yours,
    Lewis

    1. quattro says:

      From: Jenson
      To: Lewis

      Yea, I heard!
      They told me you also forgot the fuel!
      Obviously you do not need that to stay ahead at your new team. Cool!

      Cheers,
      Jenson

      1. Theoddkiwi says:

        From: Lewis
        To: Jenson

        Lol

        Oh by the way, after leaving your place, all my wheels were still on the car. Heard you werent so lucky. Still good to see the boys havn’t changed.

        Pass you again soon,
        Lewis

      2. heroberger says:

        From: Lewis
        To: Jenson

        You’re right! I couldn’t have yet another teammate beat me, it’s part of the reason I left you.
        I did feel a tinge sorry for Nico today, though, and even considered letting him pass me on the straight.
        But then I thought it would be much better to apologise on the podium as everyone will see that I’m actually a real nice guy. And I get to keep the points. Bonus!

        Cheerily yours,
        Lewis

        Ps – You seen my bulldog? He’s got star appeal. Have a chat with Martin and get him on Toons will ya?

    2. Timmay says:

      Dear Lewis,

      My girlfriend is still way hotter than yours.

      Love from Jenson

  79. Andrew S says:

    Too bad they couldn’t have gotten Rosberg up there on the podium so we could see the full spectrum of Team Order Obey/disobey reactions in the interviews.

  80. yassin says:

    Hi James,

    If the cars started on dry tyres do you think they would have suffered higher deg, in other words starting on inters helped as they had shorter stints on dry tyres?

    1. James Allen says:

      A little, but it would have been 4 stops either way probably

      1. yassin says:

        Thanks James

  81. dimitris says:

    I have been watching F1 since 1965 and today, I must confess, was not one of its finest days. Rosberg was denied his podium because his team mate foolishly wasted a lot of fuel on a futile early chase of the Red Bulls. Vettel was made to apologize for being faster than Webber and doing what a thoroubred has to do. Finish in fron of evebody. F1 does not need team orders, at least not the way they were used today. I can accept team orders when the championship is at stake, but not the kind we saw today, when in essence there was nothing at stake, except perhaps the need to keep the balance in a team, for which I do not, and I presume most of F1 fans, really do not give a damn, at the expense of racing and the credibility of the sport.

    As far as the race itself is concerned, I was a bit surprised by the pace Mercedes showed, and by the lack of pace of Lotus. Did they compromise their set up for a mixed wet-dry race and could not be in top form in the dry conditions? It would seem that way since Kimi lacked the final speed to overtake even with the DRS.

    1. Jonathan says:

      “Rosberg was denied his podium because his team mate foolishly wasted a lot of fuel on a futile early chase of the Red Bulls.”

      Would you like to read that through again? Nico only had a sniff of a podium BECAUSE Lewis was low on fuel! It was the team orders to turn their engines down that caused the controversy… and maybe they will both gain later in the season by having a stronger engine.

      1. dimitris says:

        Well, Nico said he had no fuel problem, and he is certainly not to blame if lewis had a fuel, or for that matter, a tyre problem. They had different strategies for the race, and you cannot penalize the driver who saves fuel and tyres in the last stint in order to make his attack in the final stages. The same applies to SEb and Webber. Seb had no fuel problem because he ran a more controlled race than Webber.

    2. mhilgtx says:

      Don’t forget how slow they were in qualifying. Kimi was 7th correct well well behind Vettel and even Weber.

      Australia looks more like the exception than the rule every day.

      If RBR is .75 seconds a lap faster than Kimi then Kimi will need to take 2 stops less per race to catch up. Sure there will be races Lotus is closer but not enough.

      1. dimitris says:

        Kimi said after the race that the car was not the same on Saturday morning and in qualifying, especially in the wet. Do not forget that Kimi was faster on Friday in both dry and wet conditions. Surely the Lotus is not good in the wet because of the fact it cannot pump enough energy into its tyres, this is the drawback for having a car that is kind to tyres, but the fact remains that it ws not fast in the dry conditions during the race.

      2. mhilgtx says:

        I was going by Q3 because that is the only time we are pretty sure they were running full out.

        They look at so much data and so many different scenarios in FP and Q1 and Q2 are exercises in tire management.

    3. Kbdavies says:

      Erm….Lewis was told by the team too chase the Bulls down, no holding back, no tyre management. Rosberg was given the same order.Lewis did a better job than Rosberg, hence used up more fuel. Hoa is that “foolishly wasting fuel”? Know the facts before you start insulting the dirvers.

    4. Elie says:

      Were it not for Lewis how would Mercedes know what their true pace is compared to the Bulls.
      Lewis was asked to turn down his engine well before Nico and it was made abundantly clear to Nico that Lewis too could be much faster if the team allowed.

      I’m not a fan of team orders but I’m also not a fan of seeing two vastly improving Mercedes clip each other for no reason or run out of petrol on the last lap- because the team did not do their job properly.

  82. goferet says:

    Oh boy, it’s all going down over at Red Bull for not only has the RB9 made it’s grand entrance into the 2013 championship fight but it appears the gloves between the drivers are now well and truly off.

    Our JA on F1 makes a good point for with one of the championship contenders not scoring, it would have been naive of Vettel not to take advantage of the situation by scoring maximum points.

    For sure, if Webber was nicer to Vettel in the past (both on and off track) maybe Vettel wouldn’t have been so ruthless kinda like the way Rosberg behaved towards Lewis.

    So yeah, the morale of the Red Bull story is be nice to people for you never know when the shoe will be on the other foot.

    Anyway Vettel has got the first win for the team and in certain situations, it’s better to apologize later than ask for permission >>> Schumi used to do the same all the time.

    As regards to the other controversial incident between the Mercedes drivers, I think it was the right call, for Brawn even during his Ferrari days made it clear to his drivers that they’re allowed to fight for position till the last pitstops, then the fight would get called off.

    Meanwhile this race showed that some teams and drivers are still a bit rusty e.g. Lewis’ pitstop visit and the Force India tyre gun woes

    Encouraging performances from Mclaren and good scraps for the minor points from Perez, Kimi, Grosjean and Hulkenburg.

    All in all, it was a good day of racing that again saw respect between all drivers on a damp track and also saw the drivers title get turned on it’s head e.g. Massa ahead of Alonso in the standings (when did that last happen)

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      Malaysia 2010. Alonso left there with 37 points, Massa had 39

      I’m surprised feret, you haven’t come up with your usual stats.

      I mean, last years world champion finished 2nd in Australia and scored no points in Malaysia…

    2. Angelina says:

      Excellent post goferet.
      I used to laugh reading ur posts but nowadays ur posts r really good.
      Good analysis and correct conclusions.

  83. Greg (Aus) says:

    Wow. Really Vettel?

    You won championships on the back of Webber holding station. What a wonderful team mate.

    1. Timmay says:

      Sums it up nicely.

  84. He's a spoilt brat says:

    I think you’re being pretty easy on Vettel with your analysis.

    Also this sentence:
    “Vettel apologised to Webber, but the Australian did not say that he accepted it, instead commenting that Red Bull management “protects” Vettel.”
    seems pretty disingenuous as Vettel “apologised” (which seemed to be more about admitting guilt than sincerely apologising from the interviews I’ve read) AFTER Webber made his podium top comments about Vettel making his own decision and being protected by the team.

  85. Clemo says:

    This race has left a really bad taste…on many levels….the teams Pre planning which of their driers should claim the greater points, with a fifth of the race to go…in the 2nd race of the season…stinks of artificial results.I don’t know what I find worse rosberg sitting behind Lewis and the team wanting Lewis to have the podium ( can only imagine the out rage if it had been Lewis behind) or sebs disregarding of team orders and then trying to pretend he didn’t mean to! Really?? If you’re that ruthless hold your hands up and be honest about it.
    But are red bull really that bothered, they could have told them to switch back?
    If alonso was disappointed by getting no points today he must be rubbing his hands in glee at how red bulls inter team rivalry is going to play out this season….webber is a tough team mate at the best of times.

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      Can you imagine the psychological games Alonso will start now..

  86. dim78 says:

    I think it’s about time team orders get banned for good.Surely from a team’s point of view they are useful and sometimes necessary but they are really destroying the sport.We witnessed yet another “fixed” result and obviously just learned that Rosberg is number two at Mercedes no matter what.It’s a shame really because it was otherwise a very interesting race.

    1. Random 79 says:

      Team orders were banned, but the teams found ways around it.

      There’s no point in having rules you can’t enforce – at least now we can see and be up front about what really happens.

    2. They’ve only just been un-banned!

      Would you really rather hear coded messages of “you have a gearbox issue” every time a team is trying to get x passed y?

      1. dim78 says:

        It might be complicated but I don’t really think it would be impossible.The communications are already open and even if there was a coded message like yesterday(multi21) the stewards could check the telemetry and the subsequent action the driver took after the coded message.If the action is justified fine,if not there should be a severe penalty.Maybe sometimes a team could get away with a team order but in a way the same is true for every other sport.Not every offside,red card or penalty in football is called correctly.

    3. Yak says:

      How do you suppose they’ll ban team orders? Even if they’re not allowed to openly use them, it’s not exactly hard to come up with code to get around it.

      Even with them banned (as has been previously demonstrated), there’ll always be team orders as it’s a team sport. It might be two drivers out on track, but there are also hundreds of other people working flat out to get the results.

      1. dimitris says:

        I think F1 has to decide if it is a sport or just a spectacle. If it is a sport, then it has to abide by the no 1 rule, which is competition. People follow F1 because they think it is a sport and as such has to follow the rules of sport. Who really cares about the constructor’s championship? Everyone thinks as champion the team that won the driver’s championship. And we certainly cannot have a true driver’s championship if results are decided in the paddock, not in the race track.
        For the matter at hand, I think Vettel paid back Webber for the Brazil race last year. Webber almost threw him out of the track and on numerous occasions would not allow him to pass when Vettel was noticeably faster, even when it was clear Webber was not fighting for the championship. He was, however, very kind to Alonso. I think Vettel pressed the issue made it clear to Red Bull that he needs a team mate who is either officially no. 2 or at least will not stand in his way if he has a chance to win the race, because he knows that without such support it will be extrenmely difficult to win this year’s championship. Both Alonso and Hamilton have their no 2 drivers.

    4. Peter says:

      Banning team order will not work because Fernando. Is faster. Than. You.

      Can you confirm you have understood the message?

  87. Jo Lgas says:

    Typical behaviour from Vettel who is not worthy of being a champion. Did anyone else hear him complaining on the radio earlier to his team that “Mark was slow and should be told to get out of the way”? Of course at the time Webber was seconds ahead.

    1. luqa says:

      Yep, I heard it, Vettel was actually in the DRS zone.. So your statement is spurious.

      1. Jo Lgas says:

        On UK transmission, Webber was over 2 seconds ahead and was not in the DRS zone. If he was as someone has suggested then he would have easily overtaken himself. Isn’t he supposed to be able to do that as a world champion instead of crying to his team showing his lack of true ability? I never really get the “My team mate is ahead of me and I am faster, so please get them to slow down so I can overtake” as said by Alonso over Massa and now Vettel over Webber. Has Hamilton ever asked for that? No he’s a racer who does it through sheer driving ability.

    2. Poyta says:

      Exactly, if he was slower why not use that skill you think you have and pass him? From memory I think Seb was on the option tyres too while Mark was on Primes so he should have easily caught Mark and wasn’t able too – it had to take Mark turning the engine down for Seb to pass. Pathetic

    3. Webber wasn’t seconds ahead at all at that time… he did pump in some pretty hot laps just after that message went out, though.

      1. Jo Lgas says:

        When Vettel complained that Webber was slow ahead of him, Webber WAS seconds ahead. I looked and saw the board at that moment, unless the radio transmission was delayed that is. Still the nerve of the guy … to express this cheap disregard for his colleague so publicly. RB should sack him they are a team after all.

      2. mhilgtx says:

        He was less than a second ahead. Mercdes and Hamilton also had a conversation that Weber was struggling with the medium tires.

        Then there was a message to Seb to slow down, and one to Weber to speed up.

        That immediately made it turn in to a 1.00something spread between the the two RBR’s and allowed Merc to catch up just a bit.

        At least that is how it played out on the US broadcast.

        The beauty of DVR’s

  88. Regis says:

    I have lost all the respect I could have for Vettel. In fact, I just hope for karma to get back on him and I just wish him a full trouble campaign. Webber beat him straight on the circit and he could not accept that showing that Vettel is an inmature driver even after three WDC. And once you are a three times WDC you should aspire to be a respectable driver. Shame on him.

  89. John says:

    Oh, Please…My first response to this victory is: Isn’t this a sport about winning and securing a championship? I’m so tired of Webber’s always complaining or is it whining. I’m thrilled that Vettel wants to win! I was disappointed that Vettel wasn’t recognized on this website as driver of the year last season. He won and it was a tough season. It’s enough that we have all these rules and I thought everyone was upset about “team orders”. I’ve followed this sport for years and now online. Can anyone recommend other websites that I may be missing?

      1. Thompson says:

        Lol…that one got me, good one…. :)

      2. Bomber says:

        LOL

  90. Ghayth says:

    Good for vettel remember he won last WDC by
    3 points only each point count in addition why Weber is
    complaining he almost put vettel into the pit lane wall
    above all vettel is faster than weber

    1. Luke Clements says:

      Yeh when his engine isn’t turned down and MW’s is, he is so much faster

      1. JL says:

        3 WDC to 0 – how much more do you need to know, come on

      2. luqa says:

        If Webber felt threatened why didn’t he turn his engine back up? Just as easy to do…

    2. Timmay says:

      Webber set the line early, Vettel is the one that decided to risk an accident.

  91. Kit says:

    The environment is getting more toxic at RB, not that things are already peaceful over there.

    Here we have one driver basically saying “Ooops , I accidentally won..”, which in itself is as good as “Say anything you like, I’ve won. So what?”

    He had 3 or 4 laps or some 6+ minutes to rectify the situation. Don’t tell me that he is not aware of what he has done even after being ticked off via pit radio.

    And the other driver will be fully watching his back from this time on, knowing not who to trust in this team…

    1. luqa says:

      Agree about the toxicity at RBR, but Webber didn’t help his own cause late in the season last year when he indicated he would prefer his “mate” Fernando to win the Championship and even raced Vettel tooth and nail to the bitter end.

  92. nenslo says:

    Clearly this is the week Vettel’s going to win Driver of the Day!

  93. Rob Newman says:

    What a circus!

    Do fans want to hear about team orders or they want to see a proper motor race? It was a fantastic race and then the British media nailed the 3 times world champion as a traitor. Didn’t they do the same thing to Schumacher a few years ago?

    If that was Hamilton or Alonso disobeying a team order against their team mate, then the media would have had a different story.

    Vettel won the race on merit and he did a better job than the others. As teams, clearly Red Bull and Mercedes are at fault here. Ultimately the top four drivers left the track disgruntled.

    [mod]

    1. Joe B says:

      @Rob Newman – I believe German media used the word ‘betrayal’ in reference to Vettel’s actions, so you might have to modify the range of your media outrage.

      Of course, that might also mean admitting that pretty much everyone thinks he was well in the wrong today (including RBR), and asking yourself why that might be…

    2. Bomber says:

      We didn’t see proper racing, we saw bad sportsmanship.

      I am a fan of Hamiltons and if he did what Vettel did I would be disgusted!

    3. Mike J says:

      There is no merit or dignity in winning that way.

      It still bothers me that people think that he won ‘on merit’ when the other driver was told at least twice after ‘turning down his engine setting’ that the second driver would not attack.

      Personally i think the tyres are at fault. They should have left them as per last year. At least everyone knew where they stood and they could race properly instead of at 80-90%

  94. F1Aficionado says:

    Pointless to comment on Vettel, I can see a Michael Schumacher in him just as everybody else. I would love to see more support for Mark now, but is asking too much. Enjoy the waves in Australia dude.

    Quite surprised with the Mercedes and McLaren pace, it was great to see Lewis and Nico with such a good rhythm. I have been a Lewis fan since GP2, and the only thing I can say about the order for Nico to back off is “ridiculous”; If the team did wrong the math with Lewis, let Nico pass him, and do not making feel he is going to be a Felipe Massa, a Rubens Barrichello, or whatever name you want to put in there. Not really happy about it, but team orders are team orders. Oh! by the way… Can you believe Hamilton stoping at McLaren!? Unbelievable.

    McLaren needs to avoid doing the mistakes done at the beginning of the last season which cost Hamilton possibly the 2012 championship. You can tell Jenson’s frustration in the post-race interviews. About my fellow national Checo Perez, he is doing good, but… just but.

    Ferrari and Lotus simply were not there today, Sauber showed good pace with Hulkenberg doing a great job, and Esteban was better than I thought. I still believe Gutierrez has better hands on the steering wheel than Checo, let’s see.

    Force India was a great example on how to self-destruct a great weekend.

    About the back of the grid, the only comment I would do is “Watch out for Jules Bianchi”. Great GP weekend, this is a great way to keep us on the seats waiting anxiously for the Chinese GP.

    1. Scott says:

      “team orders are team orders…”

      And therein lies the difference between a “nice guy” and a champion. By having no spine, Rosberg has already conceded defeat to Hamilton just two races into their partnership at Mercedes. That’s it. (And, one could argue that it wasn’t them team’s fault Hamilton had to save fuel, but rather his own fault for burning it up in a futile attempt to race the Red Bulls in the middle stints.)

      1. Yak says:

        I don’t think you could really argue one way or the other specifically, unless Hamilton did his own disobeying of orders. If the team had planned a lighter running strategy, they should have managed Lewis’ pace more. If they wanted Lewis to go for it, they should have given him more fuel. Similarly, if Lewis wants to push rather than worrying about managing fuel, maybe he needs to communicate that better with his engineer. Or maybe they told him to back off and he didn’t until it was too late and he was forced to crawl over the line.

        Still early days for him with the team though, and aside from the slightly dodgy circumstances of the closing stages of the race, a good result for the team overall.

    2. mhilgtx says:

      Boy you got that right about Force India, what shame.

  95. Tornillo Amarillo says:

    One thought: if Vettel disobeyed and Rosberg obeyed…

    …then Rosberg is the right candidate to replace Webber next year!

    Vettel wins, always. He did it because he knew he could do it (brake the rule).

    Note: team orders are freaking ridiculous in this early stage of the Championship. The only rule should be give each other enough room.

  96. Nic Maennling says:

    Another Pirelli Grand Prix. Ugly undertones. Vettel now behaving like Senna. I’d like to see the readouts at the time of Alonso “hitting” Vettel. The effect of team orders could be seen on the podium. We have moved too far away from the core values of motor racing. Sad. Webber incredibly restrained. We’ll see him win one by dint of more team orders. Sadder.

    1. Jonathan says:

      Why say that about Pirelli? They get so much flack that should be directed at the regulations. Turning an engine down has at least as much, if not more, to do with needing the engine for another race than about preserving tyres which will never be used again.

      1. Peter says:

        I think the point being made is that F1 as a whole is now, at the core, about showbiz first and sporting achievement second. But what did people expect? Too much money would be “lost” by poor ticket sales and cancelled TV subscriptions if F1 went back to the high performance days. F1 used to be a sprint but now it’s a marathon. A new generation of drivers will emerge that excell at driving to hit tyre and fuel consumption targets, and I for one welcome them.

  97. Richard says:

    What is it with these Germans? Schumi would have done it too. I think JA-F1 approves and I don’t – neither are right. We just have a different idea.

  98. Val from montreal says:

    I said it and it materialized … The british press just got their first taste of blood and Vettel will now be casted as the new villain of Formula One and he will be hated for a very long time to come ….

    Good on him ! As Alonso fans like to say : “He’s not there to make friends but to win championships ! ”

    Well so is Vettel ! The new Schumacher , another German ruthless ambitious personality ….

    Next time Webber should know better than squeezing his team mate in a title deciding race ( Brazil 12 ) …

    As for Ross Brawn , very dissappointed with him … Favouring the slower Mercedes driver ….

    Go Vettel ! your only 3 wins away !

    1. hero_was_senna says:

      I find your posts a great cure for insomnia

  99. Paul Devine says:

    Team Orders are a blight on the sport.

    This is why I hate F1 team orders. Not only webber and vettel (i think Vettel should have won anyway, he clearly had the pace and didnt need to conserve his engine, fuel or tires) but what really annoyed me was the team orders Ross Brawn gave, Nico Rosburg should have been able to overtake Hamilton. It was clear he could have and should have. Team Orders are a blight on the sport.

    1. Anne says:

      Team orders will always be there one way or another. It is better this way when rules allow them. But I think it is too early to use them in such a blatant way. I think that until midseason is better to disguise the orders with pit stops. And after all an order is an order it has to be followed

  100. Glennb says:

    Boo, Hiss to Vettel. Too late to take it back, never should have done it in the first place. Oh to be a fly on the wall at the debrief :)
    Reading some of Webber’s comments around the traps, it looks like he might pull the pin soon. Says he had time to think over the last 15 laps and none of it good stuff.
    Boo, Hiss to Mercedes. I honestly felt sorry for Lewis today. The guy was as embarrassed as Ive ever seen anybody before. At least he gets to keep the trophy ;) I assume Nico was there to push Lewis over the line in the event he ran out of fuel. Well done Nico.
    I reckon Webber was driver of the day with an honorable mention to Rosberg. Good to see Romain finish in front of Kimi too.

  101. kent says:

    just confirms the impression that Vettel is a spoiled brat who always gets his way. Mark is the man!

  102. Hank Hunter says:

    I hope Vettel is watching a replay of the last 5 laps of the Silverstone 2011 race on his private jet tonight. It’s the last time he’ll see Webber adhere to team orders.

    Vettel has now proved himself to be not just a bad loser, but a bad winner as well.

    Shameful.

    1. jake says:

      Did you watch that race?
      Mark disobeyed team orders and attacked Vettel, but couldn’t make the move stick. And he admitted he disobeyed team orders after the race.

      1. Troy Brisby says:

        Small difference was that Vettel had not been told to turn down engine etc and conserve to the line.

        They were both driving to the line and Webber had the stronger car. Webber made a move and it didn’t stick then sat back.

        RBR team management are going to have an interesting time for the rest of the year. I have read that people are thinking Webber could walk but that would only hurt himself. He has the upper hand at the moment with Seb being defensive so Mark has to put his head down and work harder as he lacks that last little bit of ultimate pace to Seb

    2. JL says:

      and MW should watch a replay of Brazil when he almost pushed VET to the wall at the restart !

      stop crying, just race pls

  103. johny bravo says:

    Real racer is the one who is able to overtake only when other guy is not racing anymore. Congrats to all fans of Sebastian Vettel. What a piece of rubbish he is

    1. KonPatTsh says:

      Are you sure Webber was not racing anymore? did he let him go? he fought back hardly but could not kept Vettel behind him that’s all

      1. AlexD says:

        He was not fighting, he could closed vettel….he has to turn engine down. It was not what they talked with the team and both were told by the team.
        I would have loved to see the same fight if only it was fair where both are open to race and are told so.

      2. KonPatTsh says:

        Webber’s engineer didn’t told him the gap with the following car (Vettel)when rejoigning the track after piting? When did he turn it down? it was supposed to be done after the last pit stop. But they were already side by side when he came from the pit lane. And if he was not fighting how could they be together for more than a complete lap? (so webber with engine mode turn down on cold hard tires, was as fast as a fighting Vettel engine on full racing mode with meidum tires in good temperature???) Webber didn’t give it up, he tried but he couldn’t keep vettel behind him.

  104. James Nye says:

    Really feel for Webber, Seb shown his true colours today, sure he got the win but more damage than good.

  105. Dave Aston says:

    Early days, but… Bianchi looks like an outstanding prospect! Re Red Bull, not very pleasant viewing, but… was Vettel clearly told to stay in p2? If he was, it’s an unimpressive display, but, he’s the best out there, he takes every chance, mean or otherwise. Bizarre for him to so clearly apologise post race.

    1. Angelina says:

      good post

  106. quattro says:

    Was on my way to turn TV off, when ALO was out, but opted not to. Bad decision!

    First, stabbing his team mate in the back, by attacking him and stealing first position, knowing he had turned down his engine – as both obviously has agreed to do beforehand. Then stating post race that he was confused and did not know what he was doing – an obvious lie given how determined he looked when executing his “move”.
    Last by not least, Horner stating that he does not know what WEB talks about when asked about his comment “Seb made his own decisions and will have protection as usual.”. You can safely say that integrity is not a (major) part of the redbull way.

    Quite (un)entertaining watching HAM and ROS “race”, as well. It looked as ROS was confusing HAM with the safety car, lap after lap after lap. Is it written in his contract that he is not allowed to overtake HAM, especially when HAM is down on fuel? Or did we have a “deal” there as well? Or what is the deal with “racing”??

    In several ways, a disgraceful “race” and a disgraceful podium.

    1. Miha Bevc says:

      It strange how people are not happy about VET/WEB situation and they are not happy about HAM/ROS situation, although they had the opposite endings. I guess the concept of team orders is at fault.

      1. quattro says:

        A small clarification, since you find my post strange.

        I the redbull case – I find it hugely disrespectful to say the least that first the team asks Webbers to turn down his engine, assuring twice that drivers will keep positions till the end, only for VET to take the opportunity (knowing engine is turned down) to use the full power of his package to catch WEB by surprise and overtake him. <== backstabbing not racing IMO. Had WEB been aware they were racing, there would be nothing to say about it.
        In the Mercedes case. Had this been (1) one of the final races and HAM was fighting for anything meaningful (eg the title), OR (2) if HAM has proven he is the by far better of the two and therefor was the teams first hand choice to fight for the title, OR (3) HAM was not badly low on fuel, I would not say a word as that move would have been the most logical call to make. But as matters stand, We are at the 2nd race of the season and nothing is at risk. HAM was at the looks of it SECONDS per lap slower than ROS. He was obviously very marginal on fuel! Still ROS is not allowed to overtake him. Overtaking would have been totally riskfree considering the difference in speed, so Ross explanation of "risking nothing" I do not buy. We do not get to see ROS overtaking HAM, we do not get to see a potential chase of the redbulls and last but not least, we do not get any explanation as to why! Instead we see those two lap after lap after lap driving around at "race car pace" and hear ROS at the radio begging Ross to be allowed to overtake, like a child begs for more candy. That was not what I had in mind when I payed to watch the F1 "race".

      2. Miha Bevc says:

        I don’t find your post strange and I fully see your point. It’s just interesting (not just your comment, ALL commnents) how we (myself included) don’t like VET/WEB outcome neither we like HAM/ROS outcome. And in both cases it is about team orders. If they would be banned or they could only be used in the last 5 races we wouldn’t have this discussions …

      3. quattro says:

        But the thing is, as I see it these two situations are upsetting people for totally different reasons than being team orders or a consequence of it. In the Redbull case it was the backstabbing that is upsetting. In the Mercedes case it was that total lack of transparency (to the fans) and lack of logic as to why ROS, at the 2nd race out of 19, was not allowed to PASS his teammate who did not have enough FUEL to complete the race let alone fight – and did not even WANT to take 3rd in that manner!!

        As I understand it, and maybe I am totally wrong, we cannot do without team orders, as it is an integral part of this sport?
        We have to learn from history and history teaches us that when team orders were banned, teams continued to use them in situations were needed in the team best interest and you could do very little to stop that.

        I guess Redbull could easily have decided PRIOR to the race that, “guys, no overtaking after last stop period!” – no need to order during the race. And the same goes for the mercedes case. How are you going to police that? You cannot, and I think you should not, since that is the business of the team and every team will always act in its best interest first.

        Team orders maybe need not only be legal, but also fully acceptable and certain media should stop using it as a tool. First when they are fully acceptable not only legal, we will maybe start to ask the teams the right questions. Teams will be forced to show more transparency and that will make it easier for everyone to understand what is going on better. Heck, maybe drivers themselves will start hesitating in requesting certain things given the transparency…

    2. Timmay says:

      Says the Ferrari fan… ;-/

  107. F1Fan4Life says:

    [mod]

    Anyhow, I thought it was a dull race really. Alonso and Ferrari combined to make a huge error and they really got punished. But without Alonso everyone just finished as their car’s speed dictates. I feel had he been in he would have challenged everyone, and the race lacked excitement. None of the others in the top teams were really able to go beyond their car.

    Good on Lewis for admitting the obvious at the end. I hope the hypocritical ignorant fans that routinely bash Ferrari and Alonso for apparently committing grievous hard to Massa take a lesson from today. Its not just Ferrari that practice team orders and in fact Ferrari have let both drivers race openly. Secondly, if you listened to these fans hailing Massa then he had a golden opportunity to prove them right today starting from 2nd. Yet all he proved was what history has consistently shown us. He isn’t in the same league as his team mate. Why there is any doubt over this is beyond me.

  108. Torchwood Five says:

    Ross Brawn told Rosberg over the radio, “Lewis is going at precisely the pace we want him to go. He could be going faster too.”

    I watched the Red Bull manouvres after the last pit stop with mixed emotions. On the one hand, it was great to see both cars battling it out, but then you hear Webber had already turned down his engine mapping for the cruise home, as ordered to, and reassured about by the team.
    On the other hand, Brazil 2012, I’m pretty sure Webber was told not to impede Vettel’s charge up through the field, yet made Sebastian work to get past him, so maybe this is not totally one-sided.

    One positive, that 3rd place, will be the first genuine F1 trophy that Lewis can take home to put on his mantlepiece. All his others went to the MacLaren trophy cabinet, and in that one statement, you have why he moved teams.

  109. Bryan J says:

    Hey James remember when this happened? http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/mark-webber-ignores-team-orders-as-he-claims-british-grand-prix-podium-place-20110711-1h9co.html
    Mark shouldn’t try to get on the high horse since he’s tried the same thing in 2010 and attempted multiple passes on the last lap.

    1. Richard says:

      Vettel already had an 80 point advantage at that point, in other words, completely diffrent situation.

      1. Luke Clements says:

        You’re forgetting who started this…remember Turkey 2010?? Exactly same situation, Webber told to turn down engine, Vettel allowed to go full power.

      2. Spinodontosaurus says:

        Maybe. But it isn’t the situation that people seem to be annoyed by, it is the sheer thought that Vettel disobeyed a team order.
        Webber was applauded for doing so in Silverstone a few years back. Now Vettel is getting slammed for doing the same thing, whilst simultaneously giving us some great racing.

      3. mhilgtx says:

        Not at all. Mark complains that he shouldn’t have to follow team orders but today Vettel should.

    2. Peter says:

      ..+ Brazil 2012.

    3. web head says:

      Difference being that Webber had turned his engine down where as in Silverstone, I presume vettel had the same engine performance as Webber (what where the tyre conditions as well), you need all the facts and most journalist don’t have all the info, as per Mark’s comments about Australian journalist so would not rely on the smh for the truth

      1. Bryan J says:

        The point I was more so trying to make was regardless of the circumstances, Webber has openly admitted to ignoring team orders in the past and wanting to disobey them on purpose.

        What I dislike seeing is Vettel being shown as a villain, even though if the roles were reversed Webber would be seen as a hero. I am an Australian F1 fan and I came to dislike Webber from the constant media attempts to shove support of him, purely for patriotism, down our throats. There is no other driver that gives their team mates demeaning nick names and gets away with unsportmanlike behaviour on track via giving the bird or forcing a team mate (Rosberg) off the track.

        I also see fuel consumption in the same light as tire usauge. Vettel obviously had enough fuel, tires and the pace to catch up and overtake at the end, which looks to be the exact circumstance Rosberg seemed to be when behind Hamilton. Rosberg showed what happens when you are a gentlemen racer and listen to your boss. While Vettel showed that a ruthless racer, will not tolerate being behind someone that they think they can pass.

      2. web head says:

        The problem is vettel is the villain, if you remember that vettel rammed into the back of Webber in Japan 07 whilst Webber was leading and then in Turkey vettel ran into the side of Webber (Webber should not have to adjust his line into a corner just because it is vettel, vettel should have braked and gone around the other side) and talking about hand gestures, well vettel started this with his hand gesture in Turkey.

        Even though Webber said he would ignore team orders does not necessarily me he actually did, it makes Webber look good by saying but adhering to his contract on the other hand by not completing the pass etc is just pressuring vettel.

        What vettel should have done was same as Rosberg and held station but vettel thinks he is entitled which just looks bad and exudes arrogance.

        I am not one for team orders but if they are legal than what can a fan do.

  110. MJSib says:

    All the great champions have that ‘evil genius’ inside them. Schumacher, Alonso, Prost and Senna all showed this at one time or another. Now Vettel has too!

  111. mytwocents says:

    Seb, a child in a man’s sport. You may have crossed the line first but you did not win the race. Nico you are a class act, congratulations on your maturity. History will reward you kindly.

  112. TJ says:

    Mean spirited of Vettel.

  113. Fer says:

    [mod]

    He did the right thing. You have to be ruthless sometimes. He isn’t called baby Schumi for nothing, after all. Today he lived up to that title. Great race from him, actually. It was some great racing.

    1. Anne says:

      He must obey an order.He is not the owner of the team. He has a boss. But also I think RB could have handle the situation in a different way. It is ok to be aggressive and a risktaker but today there was no need. Vettel didn´t have Alonso racing ahead of him. Not even Hamilton was too much of a challenge.

  114. tara_185 says:

    I am now with the majority of people who think Vettel is over rated.
    What a spoilt little child overtaking a team mate that had the car turned down . His apology didnt read like it was sincere either.
    With the contrast of brawn keeping rosberg under control I want to know what rocky and horner were doing 3 laps before the overtake?

    Respect to Lewis. Ive never been a fan – mainly because of the unbridled hero worship everywhere – but he truly stepped up today.
    Bad luck to jenson as well. I was hoping for a decent result

    1. Paul Devine says:

      Vettel isnt overated hes one of the best drivers. He is there to win, he would of won team orders or not. I follow MW every step I actually think Mark given the chance Vettel would have got him. He finished over 6secs behind…. Hamilton on the other hand that was humble, Ross Brawn I’m pissed off with Nico should have got 3rd.

    2. Rob says:

      Remember silverstone 2011!! Remember Brazil last year, and that was for the WDC.

      Why does everyone critize Vettel, but not Schumi, or Alonzo. Who have done the similar things and would have done the same thing if they had the chance.

      1. They have done similar things in the past, and they have been criticised.

    3. JL says:

      VET overrated.. ha ha.. 3 WDC to 0 with MW, 38 pole positions to MW 11….

      1. tara_185 says:

        you could say(like everyone else) that they were handed to him.
        he was in the right place at the right time.

        I’m over this Vettel stuff he did something pretty unforgivable. the team should have done something during the race – anything they do now (if at all)wont be good enough.

        lance armstrong did everything he could to win…just sayin

      2. JL says:

        non sense, what happened on Sunday just shows that MW has not handed all those wins and pole positions to him – you don’t get handed 38 pole positions, what is this non sense?

  115. Harry says:

    According to Martin Brundle Lewis Hamilton has No.1 status as part of his contract. If so, hi ‘apology’ is as much a cynical PR ploy as Vettel’s.

    James, what are your thoughts on Brundle’s comments?

    Make perfect sense, Merc desperately wanted Hamilton and he had the right to ask for such terms. It is the only reasonable explanation. If Rosberg had been allowed to take third, Merc would still have the ams points. Hamilton wasn’t under-fuelled, he just used more than Rosberg.

    1. Craig D says:

      I don’t believe he has outright number 1 status but there may be some preference clauses he has in his contract.

      It may have just been that as he had been in front for most of the race, and is ahead in the Championship, he was given the advantage. I agree it was sad to not let Nico have a go at the Red Bulls, however it appears he too was marginal on fuel.

    2. Paul Devine says:

      I struggle to believe that Hamilton would ask for those terms. He was/is good mates with Nico… In fact if any driver asks for those terms I think it should be made public (will never happen) but it would show that they have extreme insecurity about their true position in the sport.

      1. madmax says:

        He looks like me very much not the type to ask for that but it wouldn’t be Hamilton asking but his management.

    3. Danny Almonte says:

      You heard it on tv so it must be true.

    4. Richard says:

      No-one has number one status in the Mercedes team, and no it isn’t written into his contract. As team mates they are allowed to race unless things become critical, and both cars were low on fuel, and had they raced to the end one or both of them may have failed the FIA fuel test.

      1. hero_was_senna says:

        Cars have run out of fuel before the end of a race previously.

      2. Timmay says:

        You are dreaming.
        You really think Merc will pay $30m for LH and then not give every priority at every opportunity to her over Nico? This will happen again & again & again in 2013, 2014, 2015.
        Nico is in for a long year me thinks. But I never rated him to begin with so who cares. Unless Lewis blows him away his rep goes way down in my books.

      3. Richard says:

        I think you need to listen more carfully to what is said and not put your own interpretation on things. They had to pay a lot of money for Lewis because they were in competition with McLaren for him and wanted a top driver. Nico caught Lewis up because he was put into a fuel saving mode from about midway in the race after using more chasing the Bulls. On the other hand Nico drove a more controlled race which eventually allowed him to draw in Lewis because Lewis was fuel saving. At the end of the race they both needed to conserve fuel to pass the FIA fuel test.

    5. madmax says:

      According to a direct quote from Rosberg he has in his contract that he will always have equal opportunities with his team mate or wording to that effect.

      That was with Schumacher unless anything has changed. Maybe team mate meant as in Schumacher so now a new team mate means it doesn’t apply.

    6. Witan says:

      Brundle said that but it was based only on supposition as the rest of the Sky team hastily made clear that no one knows the details of any driver contract.

      Just one of those ‘Walker’ moments all commentators under pressure are prone to make.

  116. BenM says:

    “It puts a lot of heat on certain people, for sure. Inevitably it does, because unfortunately there’s no rewind button now so the scenario is a bit more challenging for certain people. It’s three weeks to the next race – we’re fortunate that we have three weeks – I will catch some waves in Australia on my board and I think this will be good medicine for me. But there was a lot of things in my mind in the last 15 laps of the grand prix to be honest so whether the medicine is enough we’ll see.”

    That last sentence almost sounds as though Webber is seriously considering his future with RB. As in whether he’ll even race for them in China.

    1. Paul Devine says:

      He’s under contract your reading far too much into it. Webber will finish his career with Red Bull, he’d be a fool not to.

  117. 69bhp says:

    Webber has blatantly disobeyed team orders before so he has no right to complain. At Silverstone 2011 he was told to “maintain the gap” yet went on to challenge Vettel (unsuccessfully) for 2nd place. And as Horner has just revealed today, Webber was asked to hold station in Brazil last year yet tried to race Vettel.

  118. Richard says:

    Say sorry, but add another win to the cabinet of trophies. I’m pretty sure Vettel did not mean one single bit of his apology.

  119. Craig D says:

    Wow, and it’s only race 2! Regarding Vettel and Webber, on the one hand the battle was a great spectacle and all successful sports people invariably require a good degree of selfishness, but it’s pretty clear Vettel overstepped the mark and it was underhand if Webber was under the impression of there being no threat.

    I see no reason now why Webber should support Vettel if the need comes towards the end of the Championship. And although Alonso will be gutted to not score I imagine he was rubbing his hands with glee at the friction!

    As for Mercedes, I do feel a little for Rosberg. It was bizarre to see all three podium guys feeling so uncomfortable! It makes sense to bring the cars home but if Rosberg had a car that needed less conserving, would it not have made sense to allow him to pressure the Red Bulls? The team would have still scored the same otherwise. I wonder if Lewis does have some clause in his contract along the lines of,’If I’m in front of my team mate in the final stint of a race, I hold position always.’

    Having said that, I’ve been impressed with Rosberg so far. Hamilton has settled in fantastically but Rosberg isn’t getting mugged by him.

    Final note about McLaren: the wheel gun woes rear their ugly head (but nothing as bad as Force India!), which was unfortunate as Button appeared to be having a decent race, so that’s promising for their troubled car; perhaps it does have potential. He’d likely have been in the 3rd place battle but whether his older tyres would have beaten the heavy fuel saving Mercedes cars will remain a mystery. I do expect McLaren to come good at some point but I can’t see them challenging for titles.

    Overall, Vettel’s character has been dented somewhat for me today. But the history books will remember him as the winner…

    1. Jeff says:

      Yet another operational error by McLaren. It’s only 2 races into the season, and they’ve already made two major operational errors. And people wonder why Lewis left!

      Nico is a fast racer. He’s not being shown up by Lewis. Since he and Lewis are friends, I suspect there will be a quid-pro-quo later in the season for the hold station orders. Lewis showed a lot of class in his reaction to the result on the podium.

      Vettel, on the other hand, showed a complete lack of class as he took the trophy that he mugged from his teammate. I suspect there will be payback for that by the end of the season, too.

      I suspect we’ll never know for sure who made the decision not to pit, but it looks like Alonso made a rare mistake today. At first, I thought Webber knocked his wing off, but the replay showed that the air coming off Mark’s car was the last straw for Fernando’s mainplane.

      1. Craig D says:

        Yes, I was impressed by Hamilton’s modesty. It’s a world difference from his “Maybe it’s cos I am black?” days.

        Alonso made the mistake in turn 2 but I think it was Ferrari’s error not to pit him. Alonso wouldn’t have known how precarious his wing was, especially as he was racing competitively. I’m sure they won’t gamble so much in the future though.

  120. Billy says:

    If I was Webber I wouldn’t trust Vettel as far as I could throw him!

    1. Random 79 says:

      I don’t know; I reckon Mark could throw him pretty far… ;)

  121. Bring Back Murray says:

    Awsome race. Two races in and I’m already hooked!

    Oh this season’s gonna fun now watching how things are going to flare up between Seb and Webber. As if we didn’t have enough excitement already!

    Was it right for Seb to have gone for the overtake? Perhaps not because of team orders.

    However if I was in second place in the race and desperately wanted those extra 7 points and felt I was a lot faster would I have just sat back and followed my team mate around till the end of the race? Probably not, I’d have just nailed him.

    Also something alreally bubbling between Hamilton and Rosberg. Wow fast foward China!

    1. Anne says:

      That´s the thing I don´t understand. Why was Vettel so desperate for those 7 points? It is only the second race. And we know the RB is fast and it will get faster and better with upgrades later on. He is not going to lose his seat because of some paid driver.

      1. 69bhp says:

        “Why was Vettel so desperate for those 7 points?”

        are you serious? Just look at the 2010 and 2012 drivers’ championship points tables for your answer.

      2. Anne says:

        yes I´m serious. In both seasons Vettel won the championship at the end not in the second race.It´s a long season, go step by step. Relax, enjoy your 3 championships

      3. Angelina says:

        Anne
        It was not just for 7 points but for a racewin.
        It is this obsession of Vettel which has made him 3X F1WDC .

      4. Anne says:

        Last season Vettel didn´t win until Barhain. And he didn´t have it easy until Singapore. So he should know he can win it all later on. I´m not asking Vettel to be happy about finishing P2. But at least he could pretend. And behind close doors he can have a word with the team and tell them not to do that again because he is not there to be a good samaritan with his team mate

      5. Kimi4WDC says:

        The reason is same as to why poverty is an essential element of human life.

  122. Giovanny says:

    Well, well. Some drivers can’t do no wrong. Others do everything wrong. Webber and Alonso are adored by the media and are well PR-trained to be looked as gods. Vettel, however, is vilified for whatever he does: He can’t overtake, but when he does he’s Shumacher in the making. He only wins because he’s got the best car, yet his ultra fast team mate has won nothing. He wins only because the team is build around him, but he’s had an absolutely rubbish team mate. Just look at last year’s Brazil, when Webber raced him aggressively, makig him lost positions at the start, when he had nothig to gain. Yet. he was nowhere the whole season to at least take points away from anyone. Hats off to Webber’s wife, a terrific PR agent, who’s trained this mediocrity well enough for the press to adore him and think he’s cool, fast, fair, etc. Well I think he should just move to Ferrari and clean Alonso’s boots, since they love each other so much.

    1. AlexD says:

      If Vettel did nothing wrong, why then he said that he made a mistake and that he will not be able to sleep tonight? If he did nothing wrong…he should sleep just fine.

    2. Yak says:

      Webber well PR-trained? Webber’s one of he most plain-spoken guys on the grid. He has a history of just saying what he thinks, regardless of whether it’s the “proper” way to go about it. That’s one of the reasons why people like him, because he’s not a polished team PR robot.

      As for him being nowhere last year, I seem to recall him winning a couple of races, adding 179 points to the team’s tally, and at one point leading the championship. All else the same, if he hadn’t taken the Silverstone win from Alonso, your precious Vettel wouldn’t have finished with another WDC. On I think 5 other occasions (not counting any retirements) Webber finished in front of Alonso.

  123. Harrison Vrbanjac says:

    I don’t understand why RedBull would give a such team order? In last six championship four was decided less than seven points. With that said, Vettel should never disobeyed the order. At least be honest and tell the team during the race that he disobeys the order so Webber can have a fair chance to defend his position. I think Vettel would win even if they were aloud to race, but Webber lost 14 points today and championship lead.

  124. dren says:

    Well, we can now say Mercedes is the real deal.

  125. Harrison Vrbanjac says:

    I don’t understand Mercedes decision today. If Hamilton couldn’t defend his position because of the fuel why keep Rosberg behind? It would be more logical to give team orders if they could race each other because of the crash risk, which today wasn’t the case because Hamilton couldn’t fight.

    1. quattro says:

      Ross had put a (big) bet on HAM taking 3rd. No other explanation.

    2. Aaron Noronha says:

      what i find surprising is that the stewards dint investigate the hamilton rosberg incident. IF this was at the end of the championship it would be understandable but i am pretty sure Rosberg had more fuel than Hamilton to make the move and keep Hamilton behind him, We as fans were robbed of a good result due to team orders. Rosberg was told to push much earlier during the same time Hamilton was told to cruise that proves that Rosberg whose race pace was quicker than Hamilton(see the live timing app) had more fuel than Hamilton to punish ahead. It also proves that Rosberg was faster than hamilton without running the engine at max as we can safely assume the team would have fueled both drivers to identical fuel loads

      1. Harrison Vrbanjac says:

        Team orders are legal so it’s nothing to investigate.
        But it completely illogical decision, for me it would be more logical to have team orders if both have enough fuel, because of crash risk, but this wasn’t the case Hamilton couldn’t fight so I assume that Rosberg would just pass him safely.

      2. Miha Bevc says:

        Team orders are legal now. There is nothing to investigate.

      3. Random 79 says:

        What incident?

        Ross told Nico to stay behind Lewis, and Nico stayed behind Lewis.

        Personally I didn’t like it, but that’s just my opinion. By the rules which the stewards deal with they did nothing wrong.

  126. Alex says:

    I am glad Vettel decided to go against team-orders because the 2 RBRs provided the best fight of the entire race and without which the race would’ve been entirely boring from the half way point.

    Just look at Nico and Lewis. No one was pleased (except for Mercedes team bosses) that Nico obeyed orders. Nico wasn’t happy, Lewis wasn’t happy and the fans weren’t happy. It would have been far more entertaining to let them compete.

    Personally I would love for team-orders to be banned again in order to let drivers race. Otherwise, if today is to be precedent for the rest of the season then you may as well stop watching half way through.

    1. quattro says:

      “I am glad Vettel decided to go against team-orders”

      The only catch is that he did not have the decency to inform WEB about that, before closing the gap and launching an attack.
      Off course, he had tried to overtake WEB once before right after WEB last stop. WEB was prepared that time and VET failed miserably. With that in mind, you start to understand why telling WEB about his plan, was not an option for the 3-time world “champ”.

    2. AlexD says:

      I am sure you can also serve as entertainment at work – ignore everything your management tells you to do, people will applaud you.

  127. Alex says:

    In Brazil 81 when Williams asked Reutemann to let Jones overtake him with 5 laps to go the argentinian refused and after the race said he did not see the signs. A year later he admitted saw them but could not gave away the victory, he then explained that in that moment he thought ” if I don’t fight for a win I am not longer a racing driver,I am finished,better to quit and go back to my farm in Argentina”. As much as I dislike to see the finger kudos to Vettel,Mark should have known that he does not share the team with Barrichello.

  128. nusratolla says:

    I amazed to see just how many people including are criticizing Vettel over passing Mark. Aren’t we adherent followers of F1 are accustomed to this kind of treatment to their star lead drivers (Schumacher & Alonso). Atleast Vettel didn’t needed Mark to be told that “Vettel is faster than you”. or dock Mark’s grid slot down so that he could start from the cleaner side of things.

    I think teams should back both their drivers without favoritism and let them attack each other during atleast the first half of the season and back the driver leading for the second half of the season.

    Redbull must realize that sooner Vettel wins the WDC and them the Constructors Crown the sooner they can allocate their complete resources for their 2014 car.

    In a close season where Vettel had to come from behind to win WDC required a continued development deep into the season so much so as to the last race.

    Got to be sensible guys.

    Finishing second to Mark… Vettel would have lost 7 points to Alonso…. and with the Ferraris’ form this year…. do you think it is wise to let the only driver in the team who is capable of taking the fight to the Ferraris lose 7 points? especially when you have a relentless challenger in Alonso in the fastest race-paced car on the grid…. One question? How many points did Vettel win last year’s WDC???

    I think this answers everything.

    1. Aaron Noronha says:

      +1

    2. Craig D says:

      But what would have happened if in their squabbling they ruined their tyres or took each other out? I want to see racing and thought it great until events afterwards came to light but (perhaps unfortunately) there’s a business side to this sport.

      It’s almost always the case that in the final phase of a race, team mates running together are told to be sensible and back off.

      Vettel risked the win and it paid off this time. Kudos for the racing instinct but it appears even he feels sickened by the win.

    3. AlexD says:

      When you are at work tomorrow, please ignore what your management explicitly tell you to do and show to them that the only think you care about is your pride and Ego that is bigger than life.

      They will applaud the spirit.

    4. hero_was_senna says:

      1) Vettel didn’t needed Mark to be told that “Vettel is faster than you”
      2) or dock Mark’s grid slot down so that he could start from the cleaner side of things

      Yet you answer your own statement with,
      “I think teams should back both their drivers without favoritism and let them attack each other during atleast the first half of the season and back the driver leading for the second half of the season.”

      I’m assuming that as the 2010 German GP was the 11th race that season, from a total of 19, I am safe to assume that you have got your argument wrong?

      Your last point,
      “especially when you have a relentless challenger in Alonso in the fastest race-paced car on the grid….”
      Why didn’t you mention Massa?

    5. Kimi4WDC says:

      Typical human misconception. It doesn’t matter how you plan it. It still will be close. Deriving your prediction out of an assumption is like predicting weather out of safe deposit box.

  129. jenks says:

    Well, nice to see that Schumacher is still with us in spirit.

    There are many great racers that would happily drive over their teammates for a win.

    1. zaidi rahman says:

      Agreed…

    2. Craig D says:

      The thing that bothers me isn’t so much a disrespect to a team mate – no one should allow a team mate to walk over them – but not respecting the team. It gives the impression of arrogance and that Vettel thinks he’s bigger than the team. That’s an attitude that can become unworkable. It also embarrasses the team bosses who look like they can’t control their employees.

      I think Vettel knew this afterwards but it’s hard to know if his apology is genuine or shows signs of a machiavellian character.

      In his defense I just guess it shows his passion and total desire to win and his judgement was clouded in the heat of the moment.

      And if the whole thing really was ok why is it that not a single party is defending the action. Man, even Helmet Marko is pleased!

      1. Emanuel says:

        Can I quote the best liked driver here?
        Kimi:”Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing!” How about that for a driver respecting the team? I know it’s not quite the same, but there are a lot of dreamers on this forum, believing any great driver would not go for a possible race win if they see the opportunity.
        The team wants money and the drivers want to win, that’s just how it works. It was in Marks power to turn the knob back up, but he didn’t, why? Because he just doesn’t have the killer instinct to take risks when needed, hence he will end his career without a title to his name.

      2. Craig D says:

        Totally different thing entirely. A driver reminding his engineer he knows how to do his job isn’t even close to Vettel’s action!!

        If anything your example would make more sense if you were describing the engineer being disrespectful (not that that would work either).

        And Mark was on the slower tyre so unlikely couldn’t catch up. He also probably didn’t want to make things worse getting in a tangle (he appeared to let Vettel go in the end). Finally, he was probably too angry and emotional to want to focus on the race anymore (saying how many things were going through his head at the end).

        Vettel may be a great driver and have got this win but he shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds him. It isn’t just him that’s made him a 3x WC.

        Plus I think it’s personally important to be remember as a great sportsperson too, which entails more than just stats. Many people can never favour Schumacher for instance due to his copy book blots even though he is the most successful.

  130. C Lin says:

    Well the drama at Redbull is not unexpected.
    But I am really disappointed with Ross Brawn!

    1. Timmay says:

      Why?

      His whole career has been like this!

      Thats why he liked the pushover Barrichello.

    2. Poyta says:

      We don’t have any idea why Ross made that decision. Only he does so lets wait to hear his reasons before being too disappointed with him.

  131. Kevin says:

    DUMB, having tires that have to be nursed in what is supposed to be the most advanced series in the world.

    Stupid, having to nurse the car home to the finish because there is no refueling allowed.

    F1 is screaming towards mediocrity. Dull and boring

    1. Craig D says:

      Tedious and misinformed. Even with refuelling in place, do you think teams would still heavily fuel a car needlessly (also wasting pitstop time)?

      It’s natural to under fuel a car as it tends to be faster. Hamilton used his fuel attacking to get into 2nd place. Perfectly fine but there is no free lunch and he had to pay that back eventually. If he’d started with more fuel he wouldn’t have been as fast earlier on and so likely would never have found himself challenging for 2nd.

      In many ways it’s analogous to anaerobic respiration when you exercise; eventually you have to pay back that oxygen debt.

      1. “Tedious and misinformed. Even with refuelling in place, do you think teams would still heavily fuel a car needlessly (also wasting pitstop time)?”

        Seriously? With refilling they have as many attempts to get it right as they have pitstops. Hamilton used up most his fuel in the fight with Vettel… in a refulling situation it means Hamilton has to pit a couple of laps early (which in Pijelli land is a given anyway…) In a no refulling situation it means they have to coast to the end.

        The only way your situation would pan out would be if a driver had to unexpectedly push to defend in a final stint.

      2. Craig D says:

        That’s a fair point. Stints would behave differently to full race fuel.

        I still don’t think refuelling would be a good thing though. One of the complaints against it was the tendency for drivers to do the overtaking in the pits since teams would pretty much know exactly the laps others would pit. I like the fact that with tyre-based stops there is an element of mystery and more flexibility to strategy. For example, no one knew Raikkonen was going for a 2 stop race in Australia until well into the back half of the race.

        The only way around teams not having to conserve fuel is to have a rule where all teams run a fixed amount that allows them to cover the race in full engine revs (since it would be wasteful to use slower engine modes and less fuel would result in the same conserving issue). Obvious problems of that are unwanted stresses on engine life and it being bad from a PR perspective to be needlessly wasting fuel like this. In fact a core aim of the 2014 engines to work with reduced quantities of fuel.

        With regard to tyres I fully understand and agree with the points of not wanting to see drivers not pushing 100% and how the drivers dislike it. But all I know is that in the Bridgestone days (and towards the end of last year even when tyre wear became less of an issue and races were 1 stoppers) the races were invariably duller and the result much more predictable. These days, every races tends to be eventful and exciting.

        So I don’t know what the solution is to allowing drivers to push but there not being an unstrategic procession.

        Having said that, the Mercedes drivers were told they could push like mad in their middle stints and Raikkonen was able to fly in Australia even at the end when he set fastest lap. So sometimes I think it’s a bit exaggerated.

        And I don’t subscribe to it being an artificial WWF affair since the rules are the same for all and each team has the same chances for success. It’s a challenge for the teams to find the best solutions, which is what they did after the first 7 or 8 races last year.

      3. Kevin says:

        The really neato thing about the internet is surface anonymity, but like most things, especially in racing, it is a compromise. You see, you can make your assumptions and call someone tedious and misinformed without knowing a thing about their knowledge or lack of such on the topic they are commenting on. It could be you are making such statements about someone who is rather tedious and misinformed or it could be that the labelled as such individual does not fit that description at all and you place yourself at risk of being considered obtuse.

        I’d say James Clayton pretty much covered what I might have said in reply to your oddly conceived response to my post. I might add that I don’t recall when refueling was allowed that we had a lot of instances of cars running well off the pace for many laps to make sure they could finish the race. Oh pardon me, I said race, I meant event.

        If this is the direction that the management of this series feels is best for the entertainment consuming public then they need to press on. I for one, do not believe it is a path that leads to gaining new followers/consumers. Can you hear it now, standing around the water cooler Monday morning and telling a gripping story of how a car sidled around the track for 20 or so laps while being tailed by another ordered not to pass? I can see that dragging folks to the tube or ticket booth. It’s an error in judgement if one believes this is a formula for success.

        I don’t blame the teams, given the proper sandbox they can and would provide the most entertaining motorsports imaginable. The series organizers, by limiting more and more variables and making things more contrived, are tossing F1 headlong down the same dead end alley that has made the Indy car series irrelevant in worldwide motorsports.

        Sorry if I was a wee bit tedious.

      4. Craig D says:

        I’m sorry if it came across as obtuse but what I referred to as ‘tedious’ was that it was just another generic post complaining about tyre nursing and how F1 is dull and boring and ‘DUMB’. It didn’t appear to be pertinent to this race and seems to be pedalled out every other week. I mean you used the word ‘boring.’ How could you call that race boring? For most of it you had the top 4 cars in sight of each and lead changing drama at the end.

        At least James critically analysed my argument, making some good observations that made me think and I accept.

        I guess your post referred to frustration in Lewis’s race culminating in a conservation-athon. But you forget that the aggressively fuelled Mercedes and Lewis running in rich early on allowed him to have his battle with Red Bull and climb to 2nd in the first place. In the end it didn’t work out and he couldn’t hold on to that spot but his attacking strategy was still of interest.

        The Red Bulls would have walked into the distance with Bridgestones and low fuel stints, allowing them to maximise their aero… and we’d be back to the tedium of aero dominating. There’s more angles to success now. And the best drivers and teams still win through.

        And as all teams tend to conserve their cars at the end of a race when there’s no longer a threat from another team, this isn’t about wearing tyre worries causing Webber to fall into Vettel’s clutches. Vettel did have the faster tyre so had better ability to catch him (but of course he was told not too – that’s the real issue of debate).

        So many appear to want the early 2000s style racing of flat out sprints with refuelling again. But they won’t stay happy for long. By wanting the drivers to be able to push to the limits constantly with durable tyres, you’re really stating you want them to be able to MAXIMISE their aero (hence Red Bull being currently peeved). That implies less reliance on mechanical grip, which the Pirelli tyres currently counter (I know that may sound counter intuitive). With such domineering aero effects this will lead back to the turbulence issue of cars not being able to follow closely enough to overtake (and shorter braking distances and the like). The complaints will move away from tyres and back to aero being a problem and the tracks not designed to promote overtaking. People will still refer to a boring race. It happened all the time back then.

        Lastly, tyres and car conservation, pace control, etc, have always been a part of F1 to some degree. People complain it’s all they hear now but that’s largely due to advances in media technology and consumption. Back in the 90s you’d just consume F1 through for example, 45 mins of pre-race chat and analysis, your monthly copy of F1 Racing, a weekend newspaper back page, and maybe a few (slow loading!) websites. You’d just get snippets of latest developments and controversies. Nowadays, new information is almost available every hour from myriad sources (especially twitter). It’s bound to be the case people will get bored of a topic because so much is out there about it!

        Of course the only place you really need is this site! :)

        [I suppose all that is an even greater definition of tedium! :)]

    2. Grant says:

      Agreed!
      All of this controversy is centred around protecting tyres…

    3. Random 79 says:

      Mediocrity, dull and boring were *last* decade.

      There is room for improvement, but I’ll take a 2013 race over a 2003 race any day.

  132. Rob says:

    Today, we learned who will _never_ become world champions – forever #2 drivers – Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg. No killer instinct.

    Mark should have taken the gloves off after Seb overruled team orders – a killer instinct would have forced him to admit that Seb violated the order, so the order really meant nothing, and may the best man win. He should have put everything at risk to show Seb who’s the man. He didn’t. Nice guys finish last.

    Seb (as much as I normally dislike him) showed a bit of Ayrton’s “the only thing that matters is winning” ethos. Personally, I congratulate him. World champions don’t get medals for following orders.

    Nico – forever the nice guy. Hamilton – great act, publicly contrite, but knowing full well that he now has the psychological edge, that Nico’s spirit has been broken just that little bit, which will make him easier to dismiss in the future. Nico, all the best, you’re a nice guy, really.

    Martin Brundle needs to do ALL the podium interviews!

    1. Aaron Noronha says:

      +1

      Although Nico might still surprise us lol

    2. Andrew M says:

      “Martin Brundle needs to do ALL the podium interviews!”

      I agree, they’re much more palatable now the local ex-drivers seem to have been phased out of the picture.

    3. jayf1 says:

      well said. Webber should have fought back. And Mercedes should have let Rosberg chase the squabbling Bulls

    4. Random 79 says:

      Two in a row…maybe he will!

    5. AlexD says:

      It is not a bog deal to win when you race a slower car, which Webber had as he was asked to turn the engine down.

      The only thing that Vettel showed today is that he is rude, selfish, arrogant person. He might win many-many races and titles, but it is not the most important win in life.

      He lost a lot today by winning the race the way he did.

    6. Poyta says:

      You realise that Lewis actually in the race asked to let Nico through and it was Brawn that told him No – see this article

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2298425/Malaysian-Grand-Prix-Lewis-Hamilton-admits-Mercedes-team-mate-Nico-Rosberg-shouldve-finished-podium-ahead-him.html

      so really both Merc boys were following team orders -he team knows best and they have their reasons for wanting to control the outcome.

  133. quattro says:

    “I am glad Vettel decided to go against team-orders”

    The only catch is that he did not have the decency to inform WEB about that, before closing the gap and launching an attack.
    Off course, he had tried to overtake WEB once before right after WEB last stop. WEB was prepared that time and VET failed miserably. With that in mind, you start to understand why telling WEB about his plan, was not an option for the 3-time world “champ”.

  134. Rocky1 says:

    Methinks Ferrari should be handed a reprimand for dangerous driving. A grid penalty and a possible fine will do! As for politics of the day, I have no interest save to say Merc, particularly Lewis Hamilton, is quietly forcing some few nay-sayers to eat humble pie.

    1. Kimi4WDC says:

      All I was thinking, someone is going to get puncture.

      1. Rocky1 says:

        So sorry Kimi didn’t live up to your expectations.

  135. Irish con says:

    I think now this is the beginning of the end for webber at red bull racing. Mark won’t be there next year. I don’t like a man doing what he wants and not when his team tell him to do but I can understand vettel doing it. But what can red bull do now to pay webber back. Also rosberg should of been let race Lewis at the end as he clearly had less fuel issues. Today was a strange race. I still think in a normal dry weekend the lotus and Ferrari are the fastest race cars with kimi and fernando driving them. Lotus Ferrari and especially force India will be thinking tonight that that race was a missed opportunity.

  136. amit says:

    Been a die hard Vettel fan since his win in Monza for Torro Rosso. Unfortunately though, the things that made him so likeable(humble, funny & general demeanour) are all but gone. It’s getting difficult to respect him with every passing season. Calling people names (Karthikayne), weird gestures, colourful language on the podium (it’s not a big deal, but you’d except a Champ to know how to conduct himself) and worst of all his disdain for fellow racers.

    Agreed all racers need a bit of ruthless streak in them, but today was just plain conceit. Maybe Vettel would have still won, if, they were racing, but the fact is Webber wasn’t. He was assured by the team that the race was settled and they just needed to coast home. Who knows what Webber would’ve done, if the race was still on. Maybe pitted earlier, pushed harder to build a gap??

    I think he would have done his fast fading reputation a lot of good if he’d stuck to his position and earned the respect of team mate and that of the entire team. Could it be the Helmut Marko effect? Whatever, I feel Vettle’s profile could read something like this
    _incredible talent
    _bad sportsman
    _least respected (especially by his Contemporaries)
    All great Champions are a combination of lot of things but the one that perhaps, fans admire most is integrity. I think today Vettel lost most of his.

    Hope we’ll see a more humble and mature Vettel soon or I am afraid his legacy will always be burdened with a major blemish.

    1. Brad says:

      Really sad to lose a die hard Vettel fan…. I like him more now.

  137. kevin n says:

    After this tacky move by Vettel all I can think of is Senna crashing into Prost intentionally in 1990 after Prost took Senna out in 1989 at Suzuka. Webber clearly has had enough of playing second fiddle and I for one wouldn’t be surprised if there is an accident coming. Choose a slow corner Web!! ;)

    At minimum Mark’s going to have the widest car in the universe from here on in.

  138. A-P says:

    “But on a day when likely main title rival Fernando Alonso scored no points after crashing out on the second lap, Vettel knew that with the difference between first and second place at seven points, he did not want to gift them to Alonso.”

    What do you think you meant when you wrote that?

    Extra points are worth precisely the same amount regardless of whether your rivals are ahead of you, behind you, or absent on the given day. (Except worth double relative only to the specific rival you’re overtaking to get them, of course.)

  139. Tinesh Boopathy says:

    “By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it’s not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it’s possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it’s impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I’m doing it right.”

    The quote sums my feelings on this matter. Vettel did what Schumacher, Senna & Prost do almost all the time. Be opportunistic, cold and ruthless. While I am not his biggest fan I cannot fault him for wanting to win.

    1. Kimi4WDC says:

      Way to put quote out of context.

      Vettel might resemble Senna statistic wise, he is no where close to him as a human being. Being Three Time World Champion, one should think he would have more character or class.

  140. Ryan Teages says:

    There seems to be a few misinformed comments by people who seem to think that Vettel passed Webber fair and square, so just to clear a few things up:

    -When Vettel said over team radio ‘Mark is too slow, get him out of the way.’ It was really more of a whinge than a valid complaint, as Webber duly proceeded to outpace Vettel and soon had the gap up to around 5 seconds.

    -As per the prior team agreement, Webber paced himself perfectly to be ahead of Vettel after the final round of pit stops, which (had the drivers been reversed) would have ensured that the leading car would be left to take home the victory. It was not a matter of Mark being slower than Seb.

    -Those that think that Vettel won fair and square by simply overtaking the slower Webber are failing to realize that if there had been any indication (let alone a prior team gaurentee) that Vettel would be challenging for the lead, then Webber would have not turned the engine down, looked after the tires, and nursed the car home. He would have been pushing as hard as he could to increase the gap over Vettel, so the situation Webber found himself in where he got mugged would have never eventuated. He would not have been jumped and been forced to defend his position with a clear disadvantage.

    My opinion of Vettel both as a Driver, and as a person, has sunk to a new low after this race. Vettel won by deception, pure and simple. No wonder he is the least popular world champion since Michael Schumacher.

    1. Bomber says:

      Ryan

      Spot on.

  141. dean cassady says:

    Regardless of how high one estimates Vettel, he’s a great driver, and champion, that is not in doubt, this 2013 F1 Malaysian GP incident has to do with what kind of a person he is.
    I’ve read all of the expected arguments for Vettel, and I have to say, I’ll ease off on Alonso and the Alonso Media Corporation) after seeing the shill support for Vettel.
    Yes it is true that Vettel won last year, by less than the margin between first and second in this race.
    But does that really matter?
    We all know that being a championship driver requires a ruthless drive to the finish line; and no other driver is better at working towards the strategic objective than Vettel; he is extremely intelligent.
    This was not a mistake?!?
    This was a calculation. And he is even better at that than driving.
    We may all be able to look back at the end of the season and compare the ethical actions of two German drivers, and decide, in hindsight, who we thought did ‘right’ in this race, but right now, Vettel looks NOT GOOD, Red Bull looks, NOT GOOD, Formula One looks NOT GOOD, but this incident may increase ratings, so the, ultimately, the money men will probably like it; so it will continue… until this kind of morally depravity ends all, and no one will care about Formula One.

  142. Hung says:

    The problem of Vettel is not that he doesn’t follow team order, it’s his “honesty”. If he wants to race Webber not following team order, do it fair and square, not after the team telling Webber to turn down the engine and pitting Webber to lose 5 seconds in a lap.

    1. Dan Green says:

      Totally Agree,

      I would not have an issue with what he did if he warned the team that he was going to attack and the team in turn warned Mark.

      The fact that he would have known Mark had the wick turned down was just a low blow.

    2. Poyta says:

      Here Here

    3. mbraz says:

      100 percent correct

  143. Trixie says:

    Don’t think I can name one happy driver after today’s Malaysian GP. Can’t remember the last time all the top 3 being so glum for their own reasons. Just as well Martin Brundle took charge of podium interviews today. He asked the appropriate questions with ease. Aussie Mark didn’t mince his words, Hamilton expressing guilt at finishing 3rd, and Seb knows a win is a win no matter at whose expense so long as it’s not his.
    Maybe the one happy driver I could name would be Grosjean for having finished his second race in a row in the points, and this time ahead of Kimi. Now, if Seb can learn some class and dignified grace from his good mate, he could earn himself half as many supporters as Kimi. ;-)
    And I leave Sepang not very happy either when Lotus showed such pace and promise, yet failed to maximise on the potential…

    1. RobertS says:

      I agree Martin did a great interview on the podium with good questions straight to the point

  144. Charan says:

    This is supercharged crack for fans.
    Two points:
    1. Nico made a big mistake by not passing Hamilton. He is well on his way to establishing himself as #2.

    2. Surprise everyone – but world champions are a ruthless. Championships are taken, they are not give.

  145. Ayrton says:

    James, just curious, Webber said he had turn down the engine as ordered and I am assuming that is something the driver can control within the car. If that is the case, why didn’t Webber turned it back up when he saw that Vettel was decided to pass him?

    1. I’d imagine it’s pretty difficult to turn up the engine and defend at the same time!

      1. Yak says:

        I don’t imagine so. He’d have had plenty of chances to change his engine setting if he wanted to. The drivers would know their wheel well enough to not even really have to look at it. If Mark can take his hand off the wheel to give Vettel the finger at 220km/h, I’m sure he could manage a quick turn of a knob on the steering wheel.

        I imagine it’s more a case that Webber would have expected the team to calm Vettel down and get him to fall back according to the original plan. He put up a bit of a fight thinking they’d tell Vettel to cut it out, but Vettel kept coming. Evidently the team didn’t calm him down.

      2. Giving somebody the one fingered salute in a straight line after being passed is surely a lot easier than turning dials and pressing buttons whilst going through corners and trying to keep somebody behind you.

    2. I’d imagine it’s pretty difficult to turn up your engine mode in the middle of a defence!

  146. Mitchel says:

    Words of the day:

    “Multi 21″ = “Play Fair, Hold Station as agreed”

    Seb got this mixed up with the following:

    “Multi 22″ = “Screw over your team-mate, then pretend it was a mistake”

    When Jacques said Schumi wouldn’t be missed, I get the same feeling about Seb- hard to love the pathological ruthlessness…

  147. zaidi rahman says:

    If senna did it… Is okay…that is how it should be…Racing!!!
    The Germans,… Nope… That’s unsporting behavior!!

    Remember something senna said in”SENNA” about winning!

    1. Poyta says:

      YOu guys need to get over the whole Senna comparisions – it was different era in F1 when F1 were allowed to race – these days its all about management – whether its fuel or tyres and co-operation with the team and their orders is the key to success.

  148. Nick_F1 says:

    Very interesting situation in RedBull, although looks like we already saw something similar in Macca.

    Turkish Grand Prix, 2010. Button overtook LH who was cruising and pretty sure, after the radio conversation, that Button had the same mode and he woudn’t try to pass him. But Button did that ! LH reacted immediately and re-passed Button.

    So, knowing Mark Webber, why he didn’t try to re-pass Vettel straight away?

    I think there was a reason. Actually, this is a gift that Vettel gave to Mark – to draw an attention to the situation of favoritism in RedBull.
    I am sure, if it was LH in Mark’s place – he would try to extend that battle and try to re-pass him but Webber is more about making noise than do a hasty things like LH.

    Anyway, I am not support what Vettel did, if there was a negotiation before the race then they needed to keep that, and this is for sure.

    Yes, James, agree I think the same – Vettel thought about that gift of “7 points” knowing Alonso was out, and that was one of the main reason to broke the team order.

    Regarding LH and Rosberg – why LH didn’t move over (i.e. run wide) intentionally if he consider that Rosberg should take 3-rd ? He could do that even not asking the team, just move over on the straight.

    All these things are talking to me if there will be some alternative to F1, with no team orders, I would switch to that alternative as right now there are too many artificial things. I want to see driver battles and not underground tactics.

    1. Poyta says:

      Lewis wanted to move over and let Nico pass, Brawn didn’t allow it. Its not the drivers place to decide, they take their orders from the team.

  149. Max Nalborczyk says:

    I was fuming at the time over the Vettel-Webber incident. As others have mentioned, Mark did not follow the team orders at the British GP in 2011, however, I’m sure that following their multiple ‘incidents’ the rules would have been strictly laid out for them both, being that whatever the team says, goes.

    Rosberg showed true character by remaining behind Hamilton and it is clear to see from Hamilton’s reaction that if the same situation repeats in reverse in China he would happily play the same role that Rosberg was forced into. It helps that they are good mates, that’s for sure, and it is shaping up to be a fascinating battle between the two.

    Regarding Alonso, he will not have known the extent of the damage to his front wing – remember drivers cannot see their wings and the fact that he was remaining pretty close to Vettel would have suggested to him that the damage wasn’t too severe. With the benefit of the TV coverage though, I was surprised Ferrari did not bring him in.

  150. Mike from Colombia says:

    Vettel has just shown today why he will always lack affection from the fans – as well as why he is not really considered as good as Hamilton or Alonso despite his stats.

    Webber obviously did not expect Vettel to creep up and get aggressive on him like that.

    No doubt that the partisan Marko will make some absurd statement. The problem of attitude seems to be his making. He seems to have some rather strange old fashioned views and we know that he was doing everything he could to stop Hamilton from coming over and whipping Vettel at Red Bull.

    The problem seems to be just as much as with Marko. I heard that even Peter Sauber, one of F1′s gentleman, has some pretty harsh things to say about Marko.

    1. Spinodontosaurus says:

      Marko didn’t look or sound too impressed when interviewed after the race, and seemed to struggle to think of anything to say.

      1. Mike from Colombia says:

        He was bumbling as just said that they ended up racing.

    2. Kbdavies says:

      He has already made it –

      “The team will have a word because we have to control the drivers. It’s not like at Mercedes where it’s clear number one and number two, basically we treat the drivers the same.” – H. Marko.

  151. Darren W says:

    One thing about F1 right now is that it generates a lot of commentary. Love it, hate it…but please talk about it. Something is definitely being done right because there is lots to talk about it. Engineering, driver wars, politics, subterfuge…

    James, data is such an important part of F1, do you and others in the F1 media have data showing a rise in fan attention and “participation”? A couple of graphs on that might be good fun.

  152. coronwen says:

    To me it’s Horner who comes out worst in all this. All those many, many times I’ve heard him in post race interviews saying “we don’t have team orders” ….. “we like to let them race” etc etc.

    Now the world knows about “multi 21″ where does that leave him?

    Still, three weeks to think up a new code before China. I’d suggest “sham too”, or “sham two” in honour of Webber.

    1. Random 79 says:

      How about just ‘do what you’re bloody well told!’. ?

  153. yassin says:

    Hi James,

    Was Lotus’s lackluster performance a result from varying weather,Bad car setup or being in the midfield too long?

    Thanks

    1. Brad says:

      I would say a combination of all these factors you mentioned

  154. adam says:

    when will alonso realise he is not a senna or a schumacher?! That’s what you get for trying to be clever!!

    1. Kay says:

      As if other drivers don’t make mistakes

      1. Random 79 says:

        Not like that they don’t…

        If you had asked me before the race if Alonso would fail to pit for a completely broken front wing that was dragging on the ground, I would have said ‘never in a million years’.

        If you ask me now if he’d do that again, well…maybe in three years ;)

  155. Bob says:

    I would put money on this. Ask any driver, or every driver, on the grid who they would have preferred to see win. Webber or Vettel? I can absolutely guarantee there isn’t a driver on the grid who either likes or supports Vettel’s classless behaviour.(Although, if Schumacher were still here, I suppose he would be the lone ass kisser.) Vettel’s an embarrassment to the sport. That’s one very ugly win. Totally undeserved. No apology or excuse can erase this “man-childs” behaviour.

  156. Fareed Ali says:

    Highlight for me was that couple minutes in the pits when we saw:
    1) Hamilton drive into the McLaren pit box. We always here how mentally strong the F1 drivers are. So to see this happen should make us all feel better when we have our own mental lapses.
    2) The disasterous Force India wheel gun: We always hear that F1 is right up there with NASA and the military when it comes to technological precision. This shows technology can always fail even in the best hands.
    3) Torro Rosso unsafe release: Even a well drilled F1 team can make such a big mistake. Again it should make us mere mortals feel better when we mess up.

  157. Paul H says:

    Just a quick public thank you to Hamilton for winning me a tenner – bet my dad he would pull into the McLaren team during a pitstop within the first 5 races!

    Really hope they remove the double DRS straights in the future. DRS is false enough without the silliness of having its effects magnified so much.

    1. madmax says:

      Nice one!

  158. Freeman says:

    Bit of topic here, from on board footage I noticed that massa’s front wing was flexing a great deal today to the extent of 2011 levels? Only it seemed to be the whole wing dropping? Not just the tips as previous years? When you watch it in relation to the front brake ducts? Seems Ferrari have found away around the new testing?

    1. MrNed says:

      The Bulls have been doing something clever with their front wings since 2010, allowing it to flex under racing conditions but not under FIA testing (the advantage being gained from allowing the wing to run closer to the ground). It can be seen pretty clearly in some shots.

      The FIA just hang weights on the wings in certain places to check the amount of flex – if the wing passes the test then it’s good-to-go.

      But I’ve always thought that the engineering geniuses in the top teams could no-doubt develop a wing (or more likely a method of layering the carbon fibre sheets) that allows flexing when a load is spread evenly across it, but not when a load is placed at a specific point.

      Think about Spa 2010, when Vettel attempted a pass on Button into the last corner: As Vettel pulled out of Buttons slipstream, his front wing twisted and bucked in a very strange way, and I am convinced this is what caused Vettel to lose control and spear into the side of Button. I am also convinced that this twisting and bucking was the result of (and a flaw in) the wing’s design.

      It then seemed to me in 2011 that Ferrari were trying to mimic the same technique. Think about the number of different front wing designs that they tried, as well as the bizarre oscillations and vibrations that we saw with some of the experimental wings during Friday practices (and even, for Massa, during a race if I remember correctly).

      In comparison, McLaren don’t seem to have been chasing this cos their wings always look absolutely solid… although I haven’t seen enough of this year’s Macca to guess if they may be trying it now.

      Is this “a way around the new testing”? I don’t know, but I’d probably call it an ingenious engineering solution.

      1. Freeman says:

        Hmm agreed the vettle button crash was with out doubt the wing felx, but this on the Ferrari looked different it seemed the whole of the front wing across the entire length? not just the ends bending as in previous years, I also noticed when massa took the nose off in oz quali a loop of thick high tensile wire hanging from the chassis?

  159. TK says:

    a rubbish race. last 15 or so laps completely manufactured by team orders and tire drama. everyone is highlighting vettel’s move on webber – which was truly exciting to watch – but had there not been team orders, we could have seen the fight start much, much earlier in the race. Note that it was not just vettel and rosberg who were muzzled by the team/tires today. had we had proper tires, no silly debates about engine maps etc etc, all four of the top finishers would have been freer to race.

    vettel of course showed killer motivation by still going after webber, but really, is it that impressive to go hunting after your team mate who has been asked by the team itself to run conservatively? going after webber knowing that he was not running at full capacity reeks more of opportunism/back stabbing than any real racing instinct.

    i think, ultimately, the real losers for today are the fans.

    1. JRay says:

      I agree and this fact seems to be missing from most of the conversation…

    2. mark says:

      Sebastian proved he really is little schumi today as you say going after a team mate who is not running at full capacity is hardly racing is it

      1. Nick_F1 says:

        At the time of the battle – I am sure Mark turned on the full car’s capacity. So, in general, the battle itself was fair but it was not fair for Vettel to close the gap when Mark was on “saving mode”.

  160. Darren Chandler says:

    Today has been a sad day for Formula One, not only are the team orders and poor tyres removing the spectacle of the whole point of the sport.
    RACING drivers are supposed to drive RACING cars and RACE each other.

    1. Sebastian says:

      The tyres make for awesome racing! Just those at a disadvantage that are whining.

    2. olivier says:

      +1

      I am surprised team orders are allready put in place in what is only the second race of the season …

    3. MrNed says:

      The racing drivers are racing each other. This is the nature of F1 racing, and it always has been. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. It’s always been about balancing raw speed against wear-and-tear on the car. It has always required clever people on the pitwall (and in the factory) to crunch numbers and info that isn’t available to the drivers, and then provide instruction to their drivers based on these calculations. This IS F1 racing – if you don’t like it then there’re loads of flat-out wheel-to-wheel sprint formulae out there to watch.

  161. brilliantcorner says:

    I challenge anyone to think about how they arrive at their conclusion on whether Vettel’s move was fair or not. There are quite a lot of factors to consider. I’d like to address a few:

    1. What’s the driver’s position within the team?
    - in my opinion, F1 clearly is a team sport but not to the same degree as, say, football or basketball. The driver needs an extraordinary amount of support to compete in races but ultimately it’s him who does the ‘sporting’ part. That’s why he has a higher standing than any other individual in the team, including the principal.

    2. Team orders…
    - should be allowed as their definitely is a strategic component to racing, especially in regards to winning not only one race but the whole championship. However, because the driver has a unique standing within the team, he should be the one to make the final decision while of course bearing full responsibility if it turns out to be the wrong one. In effect, this makes team orders more like team advice and drivers should not be chastised if they deem them contrary to their own reasoning.

    3. Team orders in this race…
    - As a fan of ‘pure racing’ I don’t like the fact that strategy has become an ever increasing part of F1. Tire management, especially this season, seems to be main deciding factor for winning races and while it is certainly a challenge, I don’t believe it’s a better challenge than having the drivers race their cars at the limit all the time nor do I think does it make for a better product for the fans. I understand that teams are concerned about losing meaningful points and good race results in a crash between their own drivers but the answer can’t be to tell them to hold position. It’s against the spirit of competition, plain and simple. Give the drivers advice, warn them about possible danger but have TRUST in them to sort it out on the track. There are many, many examples of exciting duels between the best drivers over the last years where they battle wheel to wheel without causing damage. (I believe most damage occurs when the top drivers try to overtake lesser ones who don’t have a lot of experience in these intense situations). So, both team orders today where rubbish, against the spirit of racing and sports and ultimately the cause for all this drama.

    What I saw was great racing between Seb and Mark, the way it should be. No reason for apologies.

    1. Arc says:

      Great racing? Only if they had pitted Mark the lap after Hamilton and before Vettel as there was no need to leave Mark out longer. Right when Webber didn’t come in on that lap I knew the team were screwing him in favour of Vettel.

  162. AlexD says:

    Three things for me in this race:
    1. Alonso made two mistakes today and this is how you loose the championship (made a mistake to hit vettel and did not go to change the front wing)
    2. Rosberg is not Vettel and will never a world champion
    3. Vettel is the number one Ego in F1. I hope that therre will be a situation this year when he will need webbers help and webber will do everything not to help.

    Vettel the biggest ego…and pride comes before the fall.

    1. F12012 says:

      Agree with all those points, especially the one about Webber helping Vettel

      Vettel will definitely be getting no help from Webber to beat Alonso and Massa in future races now

    2. Ghayth says:

      Even if he needs weber help ,weber will not do it
      ,he did not help last year in brazil and he was
      Proud about not doing it and no one blamed him in the
      Media ,so I do not think vettel realy can rely on weber help
      He had won 3 WDC without weber help and do not think he needs for his fourth

      1. AlexD says:

        Honestly, other drivers will hate Vettel even more after this…it is not going to be easy for him

      2. Siobhan says:

        Any more than they hate Alonso for getting Massa to move over? Anymore than they hated Schumacher for taking the win from Barrichello? I don’t think he will be hated by other drivers. He made a mistake, same as Hamilton did for most of 2011. Maybe there is an ego year with F1 drivers. We have seen it with Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton. Vettel is only 25 at the end of the day.

      3. AlexD says:

        Siobhan, and so what? It was not a mistake, it was deliberate, intentional

  163. JD says:

    The team orders controversy is great for F1. In what would have otherwise been a boring closing to a routine finish, we now have fans all fired up and agitated, wanting to tune in to see how this plays out for the next few races. Personal battles are more stimulating to a majority of fans than sporting battles. The F1 money-making machine is laughing all the way to the bank.

    Personal biases are coloring everyone’s reactions right now. It is interesting to see the comments. I think everyone was justified in their actions: Red Bull, Mercedes, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton, and Rosberg all did what they had to do today. If the pecking order changes, then maybe these same players would react differently in similar circumstances in the future.

  164. sharjeel says:

    i just can’t understand if nico n lewis had swapped positions,it would have been same thing, why not let faster nico go through n take points,the team would have got same number of points? i m sure lewis would have understood later……..

    1. Timmay says:

      Simple;

      Merc paid $30,000,000 for a top driver. Petronas are their no. 1 sponsor and are from Malaysia. They want to cash their sponsors cheque for obvious reasons – whether it was smart or not.

      Also, Ross Brawn has form for this kind of thing (no 1 & 2 drivers). Like 20 years of form… Only Schus disappointing comeback has ever put him off the team orders & favouritism bandwagon.

  165. adam says:

    I really cant see all the fuss!! Let em race! Hamilton was catching vettel! thats a good enough excuse!

  166. Cliff says:

    James, it’s probably me being over-optimistic, but was the McLaren performing well today? I was hoping that they could hang on to fifth place, who knows now? However, after the problem in the Pitstop, I watched for a few laps where JB basically, a lap down at the time, was able to follow the leading cars within a few seconds. Have McLaren actually made some progress?

    1. Craig D says:

      It did seem more promising. But the track is smooth so maybe just hid their issues.

      Jenson pitted right behind the Mercs. On fresher tyres he’d likely have jumped them and been 3rd as his pace was comparable throughout but probably wasn’t being as fuel aggressive as them.

      Whether he’d have stayed there and defended the Mercs on fresher tyres is hard to say. Maybe the Mercs fuel woes would have forced them to accede the fight.

      I can imagine a situation where with Button 3rd through the undercut, Nico would have been allowed past Lewis to attack and would have beaten Button for 3rd. Jenson would have finished 4th with Lewis forced to be 5th due to his fuel.

      I still expect McLaren to win races this year but I’m favouring Kimi!

      1. James Allen says:

        Smoothness definitely helped

  167. JH says:

    It almost looked like Massa pulled over for Alonso at the start while Alonso made it look like he was the faster of the two by trying to launch himself over the front runner. Rosberg paid his dues over many years and got his reward of being held off the podium behind Hamilton who maybe was considered to have the better chance at a World Championship. Red Bull ordered station keeping to ensure max team points and Vettel decided he was the Team Principal. The obvious solution to all this is to do away with the Constructor’s Championship altogether and only have a Driver’s Championship, and that way maybe we’ll get to see some real racing and not just a parade of sponsors, or a life sized slot car race controlled by the pit wall. Boring. ZZZZzzzzzz.

  168. Steve Selasky says:

    Bottom line… violation of team direction is not good and should not be tolerated.

    The 2011 race is ancient history. I doubt Seb gives a rip about payback.

    I think this whole thing speaks volume for Christian Horner’a authority. And I never figured out how RB was willing to risk a certain WC in 2010 by not instituting orders. If they did you would not gone into Abu Dhabi with a chance to lose it all…..

  169. Kevin says:

    Er, the Red Bull drivers didn’t race against each other, and I’m shocked that people here don’t see that Vettel raced against Webber in contravention of the team orders, but Webber didn’t race against Vettel until Vettel was already making the move That’s not racing. That’s just dishonest and underhanded. At least Webber now knows never to trust the little sneak ever again. I can’t wait for payback, and for Vettel to learn some lessons that you never learn when you’re fortunate enough to be gifted a car that’s dominant, which is what Vettel has had all along. What’s so great about Vettel? He nearly lost to Alonso/Ferrari last year, even though Vettel drove a way superior car all season and RBR stragegy always favoured him.

  170. shankar says:

    i think most of them here thinks JB was brilliant in a bad car.

    But can’t it be that Mclaren have figured solutions to some of the problems and that the car is much better than it was in AUS?

    Isn’t it 80% car and 20 % driver in F1? I think so and there maybe many who think otherwise but I disagree with them. To realise this I think they might want to compete in a casual go kart race at least. And yes I know because I have been in professional motor racing.

  171. Millenium says:

    Firs of all team orders should not be allowed. And then that this shoul start in the second race of the season is really a sad moment in F1 history. Drivers should obviously not be allowed to push their team mates against a concreate wall or any such thing like Vettel pushing Aslono of track at Monza 2012 giving him a well deserved penalty but apart from that there was never a big risk for the RED Bull team mates to chrach.

    We now have a situation where the in my personal view ever bad sportsman Mr Ross Brawn calls in one of his so verry usual Team orders. This is no surprice and will be something that poor Nico Rosberg is going to experiance a lot this season.

    The ones of you that believes that the like of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost would have accepted team orders in this manner are just plain ignorant or stupid. They would not have and did not. If this means that you find them unfit and undeserving of their driver world championship titels that will be up to every man on himself. This unwillingness to yeald at least gave us the greatest era of formula one bar some chrashes that we could have been without.

    Still this notion from several of you that F1 is a team sport, now where do you get this from? F1 is an individuell spor with teams of two drivers both competing in the same world championchip for drivers. This is the by far most important WC in F1. Mr Red Bull himself would piss on the Counstruction title if he had not won the Drivers titles these last three years, and that is the end of that.

    Also this race could have been ths deciding race in this years WC. Theese 7 points could verry well be the deciding points differens betwin the two drivers, Vettel and Webber if they wuould at the end of the season RBR would have shown itself to be the dominant team. So guys how do you like that for a championship a by RED Bull Mr Hornar decided World Champion. Eaven Mr Horner himself should be able to see how redicules that is.

    Maybe I should not hold my breath over it thoug.

    It is not by any means prettier then when Massa have to mouve