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Posted on November 28, 2012
Red Bull Racing

Three times world champion Sebastian Vettel returned to the Red Bull Racing factory in Milton Keynes yesterday, to celebrate with the team and to do some media commitments. And JA on F1 was there.

Vettel looked slightly weary after a late night in a Sao Paulo night club on Sunday night after the race and then a flight to London,

“We definitely had a very good time on Sunday night, you have to do that,” he said. “What we achieved for the team and for myself is very special.

“From a numbers point of view, you look at it as statistics, what we have achieved and if you compare it to what others have achieved.

“These things don’t happen too often and it’s up to us to enjoy it.”

However he is mindful of the fact that after winning there consecutive titles it gets harder to maintain the momentum. On paper he should have a good chance of winning a fourth title last year as Lewis Hamilton has moved to Mercedes, which has a lot of work to do, McLaren will be strong and focussed on Jenson Button, but the data shows he struggles to qualify consistently, while the question mark will be how competitive next year’s Ferrari will be,

“The hardest thing is to win after you have won,” said Vettel. “You get the attention and the pressure. Focusing on how to win again is harder than trying to win in the first place.”

Vettel has not yet watched the Brazil race back, “I was told it was a good one and obviously I “lived” to fight to the end; I had quite a bit to do, but it was a fun race, a tough race, but I enjoyed it.

“If I watched the race again I wouldn’t get too excited when I get turned around because I know there is a happy ending.”

Vettel said that the most important lesson he learned this year the value of every single point scored at the end of a 20 race season,

“We made some mistakes this year, but if you compare with 2010 we did way less mistakes which allowed us to be in a much better position at the end of the year, but still we can do better.”

As for the future, he reiterated that he has no plans to leave Red Bull before his contract is up at the end of 2014,

“I think I have said many times that I have not signed for anyone else and I’m not keen to sign for anyone,” he said. “We have a great atmosphere with the team that we have built in the last couple of years. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.”

Meanwhile team boss Christian Horner said that he believes that Vettel is still improving and that F1 has not seen the best of him yet.


Don’t miss your chance to order the JA on F1 2012 story of the year book – The Year of Living Dangerously, which is published on December 7th priced at £10.99;
it’s a limited edition 256 page large format paperback with stunning Darren Heath images and signed copies are available to order via our online shop now.

Vettel returns to Red Bull factory to celebrate with team
114 Responses

  1.   1. Posted By: GM Grand
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 11:15 am 

    A likeable champion. Now, if he could just get Raikkonen to replace Webber. That would be a team I could root for :)

    [Reply]

    Miha Bevc Reply:

    Oh, yeah!

    [Reply]

    Lynn Reply:

    A Vettel/Raikkonen pairing in 2014 will be fantastic!!!

    [Reply]

    Rob Newman Reply:

    Yes, that would be a great combination and they are very good friends.

    [Reply]

    KGBVD Reply:

    + 1,000,000!!!!

    [Reply]

    5reasonreviews.com Reply:

    I think people will root for Kimi no matter what team he is in

    But do you think you would still like the (hypothetical) team if they start playing favourites again like 2010?

    [Reply]

    GM Grand Reply:

    No I wouldn´t like that. But I don´t think Kimi would play that game. Or maybe he would. The outcome would be interesting, and the fight a bit more lively than with poor Webber.

    But I suspect we are all dreaming. Still, a nice dream.

    [Reply]


  2.   2. Posted By: HR
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 11:25 am 

    James,

    This youtube video clearly shows Vettel overtaking under yellows. This is not the the Sky footage, but video from Vettel’s in car not broadcast.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuMZzI8pOz4

    [Reply]

    Michael Spitale Reply:

    stop complaining. The title is over and Vettel deserved it.

    It just sounds like sour grapes

    [Reply]

    falonso Reply:

    Right. And what about the footage?

    [Reply]

    Txema Reply:

    If confirmed that Vettel overtakes one or more pilots irregularly and punishable, in my opinion is fair to report it. If Vettel won the title thanks to a irregularidad, at least there will be a denounce. And in the case RB can not defend him, Vettel wouldnt deserve the title. It would be funny that the behavior of the Toro Rosso finish hurting Vettel

    [Reply]

    db4tim Reply:

    Why stop it is fact

    [Reply]

    Bjornar Simonsen Reply:

    Yes, I have also seen the videos and would like the opinion of someone with a better understanding than myself and the other sofa experts.

    My personal view from how I understand the rules is that this should give a penalty.

    There are also some people claiming that RBR had the Toro Rosso car back off in case he should get a penalty. If this is true, then it would really provoke me as RBR slams Ferrari for using “dirty tricks”.

    James, care to comment?

    [Reply]

    Daniel B Reply:

    A comment on YouTube claims that there was a marshall waving a green flag at the start of the straight.

    Also, notice that the Toro Rosso of Verne slows down dramatically compared to that of Ricciardo “giving” Vettel the position – so probably not a formal overtake…

    Anybody know what the rules are in that situation if under yellow?

    [Reply]

    JR Reply:

    Nothing is normal when Vettel encounters a Toro Rosso on the track…

    [Reply]

    absolude Reply:

    Or when he gets squeezed at the start by his so called team mate…

    Victor Reply:

    Neither when Alonso meets Massa on track or qualify behind the brazilian in a GP…

    Optimaximal Reply:

    There’s a marshal with a green flag further up the track. Flags have priority over the light boards, because the latter are controlled by centralised posts in each of the sectors and aren’t accurate – they’re more for the TV audience to understand what’s going on.

    Also, Vettel apparently handed the place back to Vergne, but subsequently took it off him and it was a grey-area pass anyway because the Toro Rosso handed him the place.

    [Reply]

    KGBVD Reply:

    Indeed, the TR backs off.

    Is Seb supposed to slam on the brakes and wait when clearly being gifted a place? Hardly.

    I smell sour grapes.

    [Reply]

    Guillem Reply:

    HR, and what? The race is over and Vettel is Champion so stop crying and whining. You’re obviously an alonso fan. Funny seeing all the haters having a go at Vettel. Vettel won, self promoting Alonso lost. Get over it! Alonso and Hamilton would beat him blah blah blah in the same car blah blah blah….How do you know that??? And besides they aren’t and they chose which team they wanted to be in! Maclaren and Ferrari, the two most successful teams in F1 history, so stop banging on about how unlucky they are and stop your whining and crying!

    [Reply]

    KGBVD Reply:

    Funny thing is, Massa and Button can beat Alonso and Hamilton, respectively, in the same car.

    I always found it to be a strange argument.

    If you follow ‘this-teammate-beat-that-teammate-and-is-therefore-faster’ logic, then Nick Heidfeld ends up being the fastest man on the planet.

    [Reply]

    DonSimón Reply:

    Hahaha, really had a laugh at that one!

    Alex W Reply:

    Actually no, Heidfeld, while exceptinal was beaten by HHF and SV, SV is the only driver never to be beaten by a teammate making him the fastest man on the planet, Heidfeld maybe second fastest along with MS.

    HR Reply:

    BBC reporting that Ferrari are considering a protest.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

    [Reply]

    KGBVD Reply:

    Ferrari has already said they are not going to do anything about a few fans harping about an internet video.

    The stewards have ALL camera angles available to them. You’d think they’d have a better idea of who did what illegally.

    Funny thing is, if Seb was in a Ferrari, I would 100% say that the stewards turned a blind eye under the guises of Ferrari International Assistance. As it is, I feel that Ferrari fans are just sore losers.

    Strange how that happens.

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    That is not correct, Ferrari have said they are ‘reviewing the evidence’ – that’s all

    [Reply]

    Wu Reply:

    If he broke the rules, do penalise him. I hope the decision makers have the guts to overturn the championship. Yes, it won’t make F1 look good, but inaction would be much worse, at least for fans such as I.

    [Reply]


  3.   3. Posted By: trullifan
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 11:34 am 

    The fight between Sebastian and Fernando will make this season unforgettable. It was a titanic battle of incredible proportions until the last lap of the last race between the currently two fastest drivers on the planet. The old and in many battles approved Spaniard with tons of experience against the young and slightly faster German. In the end it was probably Sebastian’s incredible car control that made the difference. Anyway congratulations to both Sebastian and Fernando for keeping us entertained right until the end in a year in which the rest of the competitors fell by the wayside. Lets hope 2013 will be as exciting as 2012 was!

    [Reply]


  4.   4. Posted By: Dufus
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 11:49 am 

    You know what James ?
    Im hoping Webber has a great year in 2013.
    I know the car and team are built around Vettel but i can still have hope. I will still get up at godly hours to watch MW like i have for the past few years.
    Its possible and i beleive.
    Let the detractors post their comments and thats fine.
    Bring on 2013 asap.

    [Reply]

    Michael Spitale Reply:

    Not sure why some people say “the team is built around Vettel” Have you seen Ferrari?! Now that is a team built around a driver. RB would never ask Mark to break the seal on his gear box, or move over to let Seb win in any race let alone race 9 of a season like Ferrari made Felipe in Germany.

    The fact is, Seb is faster than Mark and does not tend to make as many errors. Look at Abu Dhabi, that was an easy win for Mark if he can get the car to move. Mark seems to be a great guy but it seems a lot of Webber fans have a conspiracy for everything instead of just saying. “Mark has a wicked fast teammate”. That takes nothing from Mark, he simply is not on Vettel’s level over all.

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    I read a Andrew Benson article of the way Newey wants the RBR drivers to race the cars. In short, Sebastian drives and and trust the car the way the driver should, while Webber is either not willing to or scared of the consequences of. Small differences that eventually makes a big difference

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    Sorry… Meant big impact

    Mike J Reply:

    I think it was Gary Andersons articles actually on BBC site. A driver has to have confidence in the way the car reacts to their style. The RB reacts to Vettels style more than Webbers. Webber was more happier with the feel of the car in the early part of the season than Vettel. Its a matter of choice. Newey ultimate package suits Vettel more.

    …but i don’t think Webber is ‘scared’ or not willing as you put it…

    CanadaF1Fan Reply:

    Brad – could you post a link to that article? I’d like to read it.

    Mike J Reply:

    @Brad re: your response to my comment below.

    So with your theory then, when the car was not to Vettels liking at the early part of the season you would say that ‘Vettel either was not willing or plain scared of the consequences… it means Vettel didn’t have the balls to drive the car the way you should!

    Just because you have not confidence in the way that the car design is at the time doesn’t mean you do not drive it flat out and as fast as you can and what your driving style allows.
    Look at Schumacher this year. The car didn’t suit the way he likes a car to be driven. He battled with it all year.(and wasn’t fast enough)
    I would love to see you go up to Webber and tell him to his face that ‘you’re either not willing or plain scared of the consequences and you don’t have the balls to drive the car the way you should!….i would pay to see the reaction and end result from Webber…Priceless.

    Adrian Newey Jnr Reply:

    Webber needs to learn how to launch/start the car when the light goes out. His qualifying is pretty good, but he never fails to lose 3-4 spots at the start and then consequently gets caught out of position.

    To me, the interesting design question for RB is the top end gearing. Now that the teams are a lot closer in terms of performance, the RB will need to pass more and therefore their lack of top end this year become an issue in recovering/taking positions.

    Brad Reply:

    Adrian Newey Jnr, I dont think that is a problem as Vettel has proved in Abu Dhabi when they were forced to change the gear settings etc to allow him to come through the field… It’s just a question of them considering which route to take…

    Brad Reply:

    “Mike J Reply:
    @Brad re: your response to my comment below.
    So with your theory then, when the car was not to Vettels liking at the early part of the season you would say that ‘Vettel either was not willing or plain scared of the consequences… it means Vettel didn’t have the balls to drive the car the way you should!”

    Given the extraordinary circumstances in which the FIA tried to curb RBR’s dominance (yes, you can contribute that to my conspiracy theory), Vettel had to overcome that deficit and to change one’s driving to suit the car does’nt mean it happens in a short space of time or overnight. It’s not like Newey told them to drive a certain way right from the beginning of the year, it could be after analysing tons of telemetry data and car behaviour to come to this conclusion, it could have been the middle of the season, we don’t know. Fact of the matter is that Vettel worked hard at this to get it right, as his accomplishments this year illustrates. Mark Webber simply faded.

    Mike J Reply:

    ”Not sure why some people say “the team is built around Vettel””
    .. well it’s simple. RBR stated publicly in 2009 and 2010 that the team and the car was being built around Sebastian Vettel. He was their future. Adrian Newey has stated that Vettel drives the car like he wants it to be driven when he has the rear end working properly. His driving style is different to Webbers.

    I am a supporter of Webber however have never gone down the path of conspiracy because of the above. His performances in qualifiying this year (8-12? to vettel and an average 0.1sec behind) i think was pretty good comparing to a guy like Vettel.
    However he will never be an Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel but i like the way he battles it out and being straight shooter. Sometimes good guys do come first.

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    “Following the big developments at the rear that Red Bull made from Singapore onwards, that’s what happened with the car again, even if not to the same extent as in 2011. That’s what design chief Adrian Newey told Vettel would happen if he drove that way – and Vettel believed him and did it.
    But Webber does not have the confidence to drive that way – it’s counter-intuitive.”
    MikeJ… I don’t know if both of us has the same comprehension of the english language, but if someone does not have the confidence to drive a certain way that the Racing Chief technical Officer would like you to, you’re either not willing or plain scared of the consequences… it means you don’t have the balls to drive the car the way you should!

    Brad Reply:

    Sorry guys, it’s actually Gary Anderson…Here u go CanadaF1fan, under the headline Vettel and redBull

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20501817

    [Reply]


  5.   5. Posted By: Chromatic
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 12:08 pm 

    We may be looking at a 15 times champion here.
    He will enjoy the next couple of years. But looking ahead to when Alonso and Kimi and Button have retired to live on their yachts. Winning will become a matter of routine for old Seb, taking all his rivals at the first turn every race then settling down to 60 laps of piped music, maybe a crossword.
    Then depression could set in and heavy drinking..
    Unless he has a solution already planned in advance

    [Reply]

    Ed Morris Reply:

    Lewis doesnt figure in your crystal ball lol?

    [Reply]

    Wu Reply:

    Lewis who?

    Great career move, reminds me of Jacques’ very own move to BAR. Ironically it’s still the same team – a team that can’t get itself together and its only success was based on bending of rules and a ridiculous amount of Honda Yen.

    Come to think of it, there are many parallels between Villeneuve Jnr’s career and Hamilton’s thus far.

    [Reply]


  6.   6. Posted By: JR
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 12:55 pm 

    Were Michael Schumacher and anybody from Mercedes present at the celebrations? I assume the Toro Rosso drivers and some other team members were there too, as all of them were an important part of this achievement. Maybe Charlie Whiting as well?

    I do not want to sound bitter but what I have seen in the last few races has pushed me beyond the limits. I acknowledge Vettel is a great driver and Red Bull has built the best cars by far on the last few seasons, but next time, Red Bull, please try to win the WC with two cars, as the rest of your competitors do, not with five. Thank you.

    [Reply]

    Uwe Reply:

    Screwing Massa over in Austin, anyone?

    If something was beyond the limits then it was punishing him with losing 5 places only to have Alonso on the clean side at race start.

    [Reply]

    JR Reply:

    Do I have to remind you that Massa drives for the same team as Alonso? That is why you will see two cars on each one of the different liveries, they are called teams for a reason, and they are free to choose their approach to racing within the given rules, which Ferrari did in Austin.

    On the other hand you got other drivers like Ricciardo, Vergne and Schumacher conceding positions to a rival team in Abu Dhabi and Brazil, when they were supposed to be fighting for track position.

    Please see my other comment on the subject here, I don’t want to repeat myself:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/when-planning-goes-out-of-the-window-and-reacting-is-everything/#comment-685604

    [Reply]

    Uwe Reply:

    You mean that FM being part of the same team makes this gross sort of fudging any less disgusting? You have some seriously skewed standards here.

    Andrew M Reply:

    Ferrari have received favourable treatment from Sauber drivers in the past when they provided them with Ferrari engines, it’s not like they haven’t exploited this type of behaviour before.

    JR Reply:

    @Uwe Not less disgusting as seeing Mark Webber’s front wing taken out and fitted in Sebastian Vettel’s car. Did you complain then?

    @Andrew M, please say when and where or I will have to think that you don’t know what you are talking about. For you information Sauber still runs Ferrari engines.

    Harvey Reply:

    Take away the 12 points Vettel scored and the 25 Webber scored at Monaco with a car ruled after the race as not in compliance with the regulations and you have a different drivers champion and Adrian Newey appearing almost human. The fact that Ferrari came so close in both championships while battling a far superior car (watch some of the on board race footage from several races, it’s not Vettel so easily handling the car, it’s the car so easily able to be handled, vs. Alonso so often on the razor’s edge of going off)is a tribute to Alonso’s ability. It would indeed be something to see both in the same car with the same setup to see who’s fastest.

    [Reply]

    Wu Reply:

    I (unlike you it seems) spent the last race running live timings as well as watching it live. Vettel was easily the fastest at that point in the race and Schumacher was driving fast enough only to try to break away from Kobayashi. (he was even slower than Koba!) There is no way in hell Schumacher could have held that position, in fact he instinctivly defended his position at first, but seeing RB’s superior pace, Schumi let him through.

    Why would he risk destroying the championship and part of his reputation (the cuddly feely touchy one he was working on so hard) like that over 2 points? I bet he would have done the same “for” Alonso if it was him in the mirrors.

    If Schumi, EJ and everyone else wants to make a big issue out of this, “passing the baton”, or “helping compatriots/friends out” that’s their right. The simple fact was Vettel, in a title winning car, fast enough for pole was going to get past that Merc pretty quick.

    Damn, I wish Schumacher came back to F1 in a Reb Bull. We’d definitly have a much more interesting time these past 3 years.

    [Reply]

    JR Reply:

    You are totally missing the point and showing a poor knowledge of what motor racing is about. I was watching the race with live timing as well. The fact that Vettel was much faster at that time is totally irrelevant. If you want to gain a track position you have to take some risk trying to overtake, especially on such difficult track conditions as the other day. That is what racing is about. Vettel needed the position to cover the eventuality that Alonso could gain more positions. Right, then take the risk and do a proper overtake, like the ones that Alonso had to pull at the first corner, on the second lap over Webber, and later over Kobayashi, risking the chance of a DNF. You cannot have both things, the track position and a no-risk situation, you have to make a choice, that is what racing is about. If the position is simply gifted to you because the other driver is your friend, well, then I rather go the theater, to the circus, or to a wrestling show, than watching a race where people do not want to race.

    I have seen my favorite driver Alonso losing a WC in 2010 because his best friend in the paddock, Rober Kubica, defended like hell his track position at Silverstone, and rightly so. I have seen Petrov in Abu Dhabi 2010 doing the race of his life with an incredible defensive driving to impede Alonso to pass, who at that moment was almost 2 seconds per lap faster than Petrov, but he couldn’t pass because Petrov was professional enough to do what he had to do, to try his best to finish in the highest position possible. Following your argument Petrov should have conceded the position to avoid the chance of touching Alonso. Can I ask you what the reaction towards Petrov and Ferrari would have been he had done such thing?

    A final stain on Schumacher’s career, great driver, but because of this kind of things he won’t be missed, at least not by me.

    [Reply]


  7.   7. Posted By: Charles Montera
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 1:35 pm 

    Hi James. is it true thar Vettel overtook Vergne under yellow flags? I just saw an onboard video footage which shows the german driver passing the Toro Rosso of Jean-Eric Vergne under yellow flags!!?? As a matter of fact, it seems that Red Bull knew that Vettel (6th) could be penalised, and ordered Vergne´s Toro Rosso (8th) to leave room enough between him and Vettel after the final safety car, to avoid loosing 2 positions. The point is that Vergne finalised 0.8 seconds shy of his target, finishing 19.2 seconds after Vettel. Now if Vettel is penalised 20 secs would loose the title.

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    I’ve seen the video. It’s marginal as he clears the Toro Rosso on the back straight as he comes to the green lights meaning “all clear.” He’s well past the danger zone when he comes alongside him. It’s one of those, people who dislike Vettel will be screaming for” justice”.

    [Reply]

    falonso Reply:

    Rules are there for everyone, aren’t they?

    [Reply]

    quest Reply:

    Hi Fernando,

    I think at this time you should enjoy your well earned second place and have another go next year.

    Mingojo Reply:

    James, I don’t dislike Vettel, but rules are rules. Double standards?

    [Reply]

    falonso Reply:

    James, please accept and don’t censor my opinion finding it a poor argument to simply discredit legitimate questions as coming from ‘people who dislike Vettel’. As a F1 fan I would actualy expect some light being shed on why no action was taken – the footage leaves little doubt – and on if it was legitimate by the stewards to (at least apparently) disregard their duty or if it was within their decision margin. This was not irrelevant at all to the outcome of nothing less than the drivers championship outcome.

    adam Reply:

    Seems to be a marshalling mistake. There was no reason for a yellow in that sector.

    [Reply]

    Mingojo Reply:

    How can it be a marshalling mistake when Vettel’s onboard lights are also yellow? If someone committed a mistake was Vettel. I know Ferrari and FIA have until Friday to act in this case, but I’m sure they won’t do anything about it. I feel sorry for Alonso though, but F1 is a business.

    falonso Reply:

    It is completely irrelevant why the yellow flags were on. This is just about one driver not sticking to the rules while the rest of drivers do and about why stewards did not apply sanctions written black on white precisely to punish such behaviour.

    adam Reply:

    falonso, there are plenty of instances where incorrect lights are on. I remember an incorrect yellow at Monaco a while back. If you and others can’t except the sport is not rigged don’t watch it.

    Bjornar Simonsen Reply:

    Ok, then what does the rules say? Are they allowed to pass under yellow flags as long as they have passed the danger?

    [Reply]

    Mister Grendel Reply:

    Indeed it was by a few meters, and in the comments to the video someone says (no idea where the info comes from) that there was a marshal waving a green flag on that straight, some distance before the light, which supposedly would take precedence. In which case it would be legal even by the exacting standards of Vettel/RB bashers. James, can you confirm that this is what the rules say? (And btw Allan McNish not knowing the difference between flashing yellow and steady yellow was a bit embarassing.)

    [Reply]

    CRT Reply:

    I have asked this before without getting a reply but I am going to try again. James, do you think that the FIA should analyse the situation of having B-teams under the same organization that other team? The actions of Toro Rosso have been quite controversial in the last part of the championship. In fact this yellow flag incident is caused by Vergne braking to let Vettel through (look in the video the distance between Vergne and the cars in front at the beginning and then in the straight). The fact that Vergne finished the race under SC 19.2 s from Vettel is curious to say the least.

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    No I don’t.

    Amritraj Reply:

    I think the season Red Bull has been let off for many transgressions. They ran an illegal floor in Bahrain and Monaco and were allowed to keep those points.

    I think it is Red Bull money that dictates the sport to an extent. Hence, these issues are overlooked.

    As for team-mate support, Vettel, for any given race has 3 team-mates in Webber, Ricardo and Vergne.In Brazil, he had four….

    Vettel has been very lucky to win this championship in my opinion. He has made several error in the key parts this season.

    Also, I think Vettel cracked under pressure in Brazil, and to an extent in Abu Dhabi.

    In Brazil, he made a mess of the start and then collided with Bruno Senna. He was damned lucky to continue at all, let alone be competitve in the wet. For me, his spatial awareness is poor for an F1 driver (well, way below that of Button’s or Alonso’), and it is something he will take another few years to develop.

    In Abu Dhabi, he crashed with Bruno Senna and with a board under the safety car, for which he had to pay no penalties.

    Also, his passing what with the DRS and KERS assistances, compounded by the SC interventions, was expected.

    He may be a triple World Champion, but I don’t think he was the best this year. Both Alonso and Hamilton drove and deserved more.

    IP Reply:

    going on that basis each team should also build their own engines and larger teams should not be able to load drivers out to smaller teams.

    tell me one young/junior team driver with ambitions to drive for a big team hasn’t moved over or made life easier for the team they hope to have a chance to drive for, with the possible exception of Vettel taking Webber out in 2007 at Fuji

    Txema Reply:

    James, i have the impression that the marshal with the green flag was there in lap 3, but not in lap 4 when Vettel overtake Vergne.
    We need a post in your blog explaining this pass and also another with Di Resta and De la Rosa.
    If for experts these overtakes are so clear, we need that experts as you explain to us. If not, there will still the doubt and the title will be devalued.

    [Reply]

    quest Reply:

    Check this link. This is no doubt the pass was legal.

    http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/11/case-closed.html#more

    There is a map which shows all the marshall flags and signals lights marked. After turn 3 there is a flag and a light. Just after the end of sector 1 before turn 4 is a flag on the right and light on the left.

    However inbetween these two, there is just a marshall with a flag and no light. This marshall waves a green flag and Vettel overtakes well after this flag and just before the sector 1 ends.

    The pass was clean. There should be no doubt.

    [Reply]

    Brace Reply:

    James there’s nothing marginal there. He has yellow lights on his steering wheel and they are clearly yellow when he makes the pass.

    That said I don’t care about that anymore. Alonso didn’t lose because of that. He lost because he was knocked out by Grosjean.
    It would have been nice if Alonso won, since he was the better man and the better driver this year, but as with everything in life, you don’t always get what you deserve. Neither in good not in bad way.

    We would like to think that the best man won, since we like to believe in karma and that all people have an equal chance in life and all that kind of stuff, but it isn’t like that.

    We watch the sports in hope to see our man or team win, hoping that it is a righteous arena which doesn’t suffer from tilted tables of the real, everyday life, but it isn’t. It’s just as unrighteous and often tilted.

    Just because Alonso was the best driver this year, doesn’t count much, against the fact that he was simply that much unluckier then Vettel to be punted out by Grosjean. I think Vettel also had many other things going for him that Alonso didn’t, but as Axl Rose said it “Life doesn’t own you a happy ending”, so let’s be even better next year and get that title that Alonso so thoroughly deserved.

    One thing that is here, be it with the title or not, is the new level Alonso has reached as a driver and no one can take that away from him. He knows that his driving, his mental strength and his motivation this year have been something unseen before and those things won’t be less amazing and inspiring just because of the few points difference.

    Go Fernando!

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    Watch the slow mo of that video..look on left before he passes Vergne

    Justin Reply:

    To me it looks like Vergne backs off a fair bit also as he was right behind the drivers in front going onto the straight but there is a large gap by the time Vettel brakes for the corner. Can you pass under yellows if a driver slows down too much? Sounds a little too grey and not sure how you would judge it either….

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    Apparently Vettel gave the position back then overtook him again

    [Reply]


  8.   8. Posted By: Miha Bevc
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 1:36 pm 

    Stay humble and keep improving, champ.
    Now go for the 4th one!

    [Reply]


  9.   9. Posted By: falonso
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 2:16 pm 

    Please someone comment on the footage below showing Vettel overtaking Vergne under yellow flags.
    http://www.marca.com/2012/11/27/motor/formula1/1354040626.html

    [Reply]

    Janis Reply:

    Sky F1 debated this extensively. Look for the footage where they went through the sequence on the SkyPad.

    [Reply]

    Daniel MA Reply:

    Apparently there’s a Marshall waving a green flag at the exit of turn three, so even if the digital boards or Vettel’s dashboard say there’s yellow flags it was a legal pass. Come on if there was an ilegal overtake you think Ferrari wouldn’t have done something by now?? that’s the biggest proof right there.

    [Reply]

    J Reply:

    Best part about that video is how obvious that marca.com stole it and badly re-edited so they could add their logo on someone else’s work.

    [Reply]


  10.   10. Posted By: Gene
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 2:36 pm 

    It’s baffles me how people can STILL not like this guy. He’s pleasant to chat with, has a great sense of humor, humble in victory, gracious in defeat, has a fire and passion while driving, is a student of F1 history, puts in the long hours to focus on his performance, never blames the team when things go wrong, gives great interviews… I guess I just don’t see it. I think people need to ask themselves: If your favorite driver had all of these qualities, wouldn’t you be happy? I’m a neutral (still waiting for a US driver to root for), but have grown to massively enjoy this guy over the years.

    What I enjoy about this era of F1, is that the racing is as close as ever, and we’ve got such an incredible lineup of world champions on the grid. Taking all that into account, Vettel’s been able to win the thing 3 straight years (and come pretty close the year before that!). How can you not respect that, no matter who you’re a fan of? I can somewhat understand when people came to dislike Schumacher’s era of dominance, but this is completely different. The races these days are always in doubt! We’re watching the most competetive era of F1 perhaps ever with the toughest grid ever, and one guy is rising above all of it.

    Respect.

    [Reply]

    falonso Reply:

    simple answer: diversity

    [Reply]

    Larry Reply:

    Couldn’t agree more. Well said!

    [Reply]

    Mister Grendel Reply:

    Well said.
    What baffles me is how a lot of people seem to diminish their own enjoyment of watching F1 by being so partisan.
    I am a Vettel fan for sure (though I didn’t appreciate his dirty tricks comments, I thought that left a bitter taste), but I enjoyed watching Alonso being near perfect this year (even though the dramaqueenery sometimes is a bit much), and I enjoyed watching the driving genius of Hamilton (even though he sometimes got on my nerves last season).
    I watch for the racing, not to win by proxy. Still, I cheered Vettel on and though he made mistakes (like the Senna incident) he gave us some incredible drives. Beating one of the best ever (Alonso) just made it more thrilling.
    And btw I am glad that now that I live in the UK I get to watch BBC race coverage. Anyone who has ever seen the jingoistic drivel on German RTL will know what I mean. They called Senna “moron of the year” for the crash and Kobayashi useless for overtaking Vettel. Thank you Beeb and thank you James.

    [Reply]

    CRT Reply:

    Don’t worry too much. When one driver is so successful as Vettel it is a fact of life that some people is not going to like it. It is the same for the other F1 top drivers, each of them has his own group of anti’s. Sad, because people lose a lot of fun. Be sure that F1 core fans do appreciate a lot Vettel achievements. In fact what he is doing is absolutely amazing. And I agree with you, the level of the current F1 grid just adds to Vettel merits.

    [Reply]

    Mingojo Reply:

    Why if someone questions or critiques a driver is seen as ‘dislike’. Certainly Vettel is a likeable boy and a great driver, however I believe Red Bull had the best car for a mile in comparison to Ferrari. Thus, in my book, Alonso was the best driver in this season.

    [Reply]

    Brad Reply:

    hint Gene: Ferrari has a huge fan base and Vettel is spoiling their god’s supposely period of domination, the one that was suppose to be on the throne ruling the lesser mortals below

    [Reply]

    Miha Bevc Reply:

    I agree with you, but then… I’m a Vettel fan.

    I guess people are looking for excuses why he beat their favorite driver. They say he’s having it to easy, they talk about Newey designed car, but they don’t see he actually managed to beat the strongest grid in 25 years. I seriously think we didn’t have so strong drivers on the grid since the 80′s. Vettel did it three years in a row and only second year was actually “easy” (although he did what he needed to do).

    It’s also true F1 is still very British sport and this is a British blog with a lot of British readers, I guess. I’m sure Germans like Vettel as much as Brits like Hamilton, Button, McLaren etc.

    [Reply]

    Mike J Reply:

    Good points. I support Webber and over the last few years have really taken to Vettel. I was very, very lucky enough to meet him at Albert Park this year one on one and he blew me away with his open honest and easy way to talk to on ‘my level’. Sure he has his ‘minor tantrums’ and shouldn’t have raised the ‘dirty tricks’ after Sunday however i put that down to emotions and passion.
    People forget that the majority of WDC’s have driven the best and fastest car.

    [Reply]


  11.   11. Posted By: zombie
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 3:11 pm 

    Seb looks like he is going balder with every title he takes.

    He may have walked into a Newey led team, but there is no denying the fact that the guy has deserved each one of his title that he’s won. Great sense of humor, keeps his head on his shoulders ( and from someone who was once in his early 20s, i tell you that aint easy ! ). I wouldn’t be too surprised if this man leaves F1 with records stacked so high that it may takes decades before anyone can surpass them.

    [Reply]


  12.   12. Posted By: wideangle123
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 3:13 pm 

    Dear all

    I have looked into my crystal balls and have come up with this long-term F1 forecast:

    - Vettel wins the next two driver championships to make it 5 in a row. He joins Ferrari for the 2015 season.

    - Hamilton makes some progress with Mercedes but is eventually lured by the bright lights of Red Bull also for 2015.

    - Webber and Button eventually succumb to age and end up joining/promoting the Formula E series (much like the Kudos raising moves of Beckham and Henry to the States).

    - Fed up with coming second, Alonso eventually bows out of F1 and either starts an F1 driver academy, or manoeuvres himself into team management.

    - In a tearful and much publicised move, Hamilton moves back to McLaren in 2017 and eventually ends his career arc there.

    Does someone know how to bookmark this comment so I can show it to the bookies in 2019?! :-)

    F1Fan

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    Your first two may end up being not far wrong..

    [Reply]

    Marcus in Canada Reply:

    God, I hope not.

    [Reply]

    Miha Bevc Reply:

    I hope Vettel keeps his feet on the ground and stays with Red Bull as long as they provide him car capable of winning races.
    If Ferrari start building better cars OK, otherwise he will just make Hamilton (or Alonso) happy by emptying his Red Bull seat.

    [Reply]

    Bav Reply:

    Hi James, why has there never been talk of Hamilton joining Ferrari in the future? Just puzzled why Luca has never talkies about it either….

    [Reply]

    trullifan Reply:

    Alonso vetoed his move for 2013.

    However Mateschitz reckoned that if Vettel were to change to Ferrari they would probably employ Alonso if he would be available. No mention of Hamilton there.


  13.   13. Posted By: Cakes
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 3:27 pm 

    To all those complaining that Vettel overtook the Toro Rosso while the yellow was still flashing on his dashboard:

    A flag marshal confirms why Vettel’s alleged “yellow flag Toro Rosso pass” was legal: http://bit.ly/vettelmarshal

    [Reply]

    Txema Reply:

    The green flag marshal was only in Pic´s pass, but not in Vergne´s pass. The overtook was illegal, and maybe other with Di Resta

    [Reply]

    falonso Reply:

    Thanks for this. It should interest not just ‘all those complaining’ but also every F1 fan who’s seen the footage and have obvious questions. This should include Vettel fans unless those too biaised to care.

    [Reply]


  14.   14. Posted By: Anil
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 5:53 pm 

    Hope you enjoyed your visit to Milton Keynes, James! I still find it very surreal that the Red Bull factory is just a few minutes from my front door.

    Hopefully they’ll be doing another street demo as last year it got over 60,000 people attending, I believe. Great stuff.

    [Reply]


  15.   15. Posted By: Nil
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 6:18 pm 

    Hi James,

    - What’s the inside word on Mark’s move on the opening lap? That nearly cost Sebastian the championship.

    - What is the paddock consensus on Kobayashi? Good? Bad? Average? Better or worse than Perez? Is the fan perception in line with those in the know?

    [Reply]

    Vivek Reply:

    I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, that SV winning the title probably meant that Mark’s opening lap move was ignored by RBR. If SV were to lose the title, quite simply Mark’s opening lap move would have to take the blame for Seb getting bundled down the pack. Seeing Mark make that move, made Seb even more cautious/tentative (Imagine what others could do, if your team-mate does that to you).

    I do really like Webber, but that move was not on. Sorry.

    This is a very interesting topic and it would be great to have some inside word on this.

    Last race, WDC at stake for the team, Surely Mark should have taken the higher line and allowed Seb through on the inside. But he thought differently.

    [Reply]

    Nil Reply:

    I’ve noticed that on occasions when Mark out-qualifies Seb, he tries to block him on the race start and loses places to others around himself! I’ll have to go back and look at the instances from this season to back that up though.

    [Reply]


  16.   16. Posted By: Anne
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 7:05 pm 

    Maybe Vettel deserves the title and maybe Vettel is the best driver ever. But unfortunately this year the WDC has been controversial at the end. Not only because the issue over the yellow flags with Vergne and Kobashashi but because his crash with Senna was not investigated. And also Vettel was helped by the Toro Rosso drivers and Schumacher. No other driver on the grid gets that extra help that Vettel has.

    [Reply]


  17.   17. Posted By: unF1nnished Business
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 7:18 pm 

    I have to give all you Anti-Vettel-armchair-experts credit of staying bitter & jaded for this long. I really don’t know how you do it and it shows great endurance of denial. Keep it up as I’m sure you’ll have much more of this in the future!

    [Reply]


  18.   18. Posted By: Nick Hipkin
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 7:58 pm 

    James,

    Although Seb says he has no intention of leaving RBR do you see him going for 5-6 straight titles there or will he find the lure of Ferrari too much?

    I sense that as he has such an appreciation of the history of F1 he will end up at Ferrari, especially as his friend Schumy will have probably told him many stories about his time there

    [Reply]

    James Allen Reply:

    I think that at some point he will want to show he can win in another car….but he’s not in any hurry and nor should he be.

    If Alonso was in Red Bull now, or Hamilton, do you think he’d be planning to leave?

    [Reply]

    Nick Hipkin Reply:

    No I think he wants to prove all the doubters wrong, I actually think if you put Alonso and Vettel together in a Red Bull or a Mclaren and Vettel would come out on top, put them together in a Ferrari or a Mercedes and it would be Alonso. Different strengths although its easy to forget they are at different stages of their careers

    [Reply]


  19.   19. Posted By: Nathan
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 9:07 pm 

    Congrats to Sebastian!

    To all those people complaining that Vettel overtook the Toro Rosso under yellow flags, look at this: http://s7.directupload.net/images/121128/xq7wq2yp.gif

    http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012/11/case-closed.html

    It’s very clear that there was a marshal with a green flag. Everything is perfectly legal.

    [Reply]

    David Jones Reply:

    That is very clear, probably the clearest I’ve seen. I can’t understand why this is still being debated when there is proof of a green flag. It smacks of sour grapes.

    Vettel and Alonso (and Hamilton and Kimi) all drove fabulously well in different ways and I find it frustrating that some people can’t seem to appreciate this. Either Alonso or Vettel would have been worthy champions and I’m just enjoying the talent we currently have on the grid.

    [Reply]


  20.   20. Posted By: richardc
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 9:33 pm 

    James please can you answer the question regarding Vettle,s drive through “the yellow lights”. It seems quite simple to me, either he did or he did not?? Personally I think he did. I also think that like most things in F1 there are double standards. This leads to accusations of FIA assistance, rule bending ect. Surely the FIA with it,s huge experiance and vast aray of staff can police these situations better???

    [Reply]

    Maxime Labelle Reply:

    This case is addressed exhaustively by “theJudge13″ website. It’s backed up with evidence of video footage and a picture of an alternate view.

    Basically, all of the three allegedly illegal passes were, in fact, perfectly legitimate.

    [Reply]


  21.   21. Posted By: IDR
        Date: November 28th, 2012 @ 10:36 pm 

  22.   22. Posted By: sri hartati
        Date: November 29th, 2012 @ 1:59 am 

    congre Seb

    [Reply]

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