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> <channel><title>Comments on: German Grand Prix tech- Ferrari updates in focus</title> <atom:link href="http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/</link> <description>Formula 1 / F1</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:27:49 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator> <item><title>By: Kenny</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-105521</link> <dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:20:21 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-105521</guid> <description>Will, yeah it does clear things up. I can see what you are meaning now so now I can see it could very well be possible.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, yeah it does clear things up. I can see what you are meaning now so now I can see it could very well be possible.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Will</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-105098</link> <dc:creator>Will</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:55:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-105098</guid> <description>Kenny, there&#039;s a lot of ambiguous explanation going on there, but so far as I can see, you seem to be suggesting that flexural response is dependent only on material properties.This is quite clearly not the case, and perhaps this is why such a design seems less feasible to you than it does to me. Both my suggestions (and they&#039;re just guesses at what might be possible) are based on the premise of miniscule deflections changing the effective structure of the wing by changing the alignment of normally-load-bearing members. In terms of your simple beam theory example, this is a change in effective beam cross-section, not elastic modulus.In the case of the first suggestion, I&#039;m not talking about loading upwards rather than downwards, or loading in an untested direction, but loading in a combination of modes already tested. The most likely example would be when experiencing drag and/or pitching moment, the wing being more flexible under downforce. I hope that clears things up...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenny, there&#8217;s a lot of ambiguous explanation going on there, but so far as I can see, you seem to be suggesting that flexural response is dependent only on material properties.</p><p>This is quite clearly not the case, and perhaps this is why such a design seems less feasible to you than it does to me. Both my suggestions (and they&#8217;re just guesses at what might be possible) are based on the premise of miniscule deflections changing the effective structure of the wing by changing the alignment of normally-load-bearing members. In terms of your simple beam theory example, this is a change in effective beam cross-section, not elastic modulus.</p><p>In the case of the first suggestion, I&#8217;m not talking about loading upwards rather than downwards, or loading in an untested direction, but loading in a combination of modes already tested. The most likely example would be when experiencing drag and/or pitching moment, the wing being more flexible under downforce. I hope that clears things up&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Pigloo</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104896</link> <dc:creator>Pigloo</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:16:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104896</guid> <description>Watch the RB front wing flex for yourself here. Its fairly obvious to me when comparing the position to the chasis. Just put your cursor on the top of the wing before the straight and watch it drop.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Wro6SYjRA&amp;feature=player_embedded</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch the RB front wing flex for yourself here. Its fairly obvious to me when comparing the position to the chasis. Just put your cursor on the top of the wing before the straight and watch it drop.</p><p><a
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Wro6SYjRA&#038;feature=player_embedded" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Wro6SYjRA&#038;feature=player_embedded</a></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kenny</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104645</link> <dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:07:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104645</guid> <description>Will, the only problem with your theory about the different direction to deflect, it doesn&#039;t work that way.
Since if you bend (or otherwise deflect) a beam or in this case a wing one direction, it will be able to withstand the same load in the exact opposite direction.
Admittedly the shape will obviously alter this somewhat, but by Young&#039;s Modulus if you have a beam, as long as you are bending the beam in the same manner with the same amount of loading then it will deflect that amount each time.
Albeit, after several tests it will probably start deflecting even more due to usage and the old &quot;wear and tear&quot; phrase.
In addition, you&#039;d hardly find a wing deflecting upwards when the car is travelling at high speed. (As far as I know anyways)The only other load direction they could test the wings would be in fact the direction of pointing parallel with the car and we already know the testing for that is in fact for crashing and that the structure holds up to a certain degree of force for it to be safe for the driver and they don&#039;t absorb the impact instead of the car&#039;s nose and monocoque. Again also Young&#039;s Modulus stuff.As for the &quot;stiffener&quot; on the wing, you&#039;d have to find some strange material that did that to put into the carbon fibre. I know as much as carbon fibre is significantly stronger in one direction than the other i.e. it can take loadings better in one direction than the other and that heat does have a factor in the amount of deflection occuring in a material, but you&#039;d have to be looking at massive temperature differences for that to occur.I think ultimately if the wings are flexing too much then it&#039;s a case of the wings are just a bit thin, but obviously still strong enough to take the load settings the car goes through. Alternatively wherever the wing elements are held, it&#039;s held somewhat more loosely and therefore is a bit free to move about to the air flow.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, the only problem with your theory about the different direction to deflect, it doesn&#8217;t work that way.<br
/> Since if you bend (or otherwise deflect) a beam or in this case a wing one direction, it will be able to withstand the same load in the exact opposite direction.<br
/> Admittedly the shape will obviously alter this somewhat, but by Young&#8217;s Modulus if you have a beam, as long as you are bending the beam in the same manner with the same amount of loading then it will deflect that amount each time.<br
/> Albeit, after several tests it will probably start deflecting even more due to usage and the old &#8220;wear and tear&#8221; phrase.<br
/> In addition, you&#8217;d hardly find a wing deflecting upwards when the car is travelling at high speed. (As far as I know anyways)</p><p>The only other load direction they could test the wings would be in fact the direction of pointing parallel with the car and we already know the testing for that is in fact for crashing and that the structure holds up to a certain degree of force for it to be safe for the driver and they don&#8217;t absorb the impact instead of the car&#8217;s nose and monocoque. Again also Young&#8217;s Modulus stuff.</p><p>As for the &#8220;stiffener&#8221; on the wing, you&#8217;d have to find some strange material that did that to put into the carbon fibre. I know as much as carbon fibre is significantly stronger in one direction than the other i.e. it can take loadings better in one direction than the other and that heat does have a factor in the amount of deflection occuring in a material, but you&#8217;d have to be looking at massive temperature differences for that to occur.</p><p>I think ultimately if the wings are flexing too much then it&#8217;s a case of the wings are just a bit thin, but obviously still strong enough to take the load settings the car goes through. Alternatively wherever the wing elements are held, it&#8217;s held somewhat more loosely and therefore is a bit free to move about to the air flow.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: James Allen</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104626</link> <dc:creator>James Allen</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:04:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104626</guid> <description>Very interesting. I have something particularly interesting for tomorrow..</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting. I have something particularly interesting for tomorrow..</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Will</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104598</link> <dc:creator>Will</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:11:32 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104598</guid> <description>The maximum deflections allowed are a centimetre, and this is under loads equivalent to around a tenth of the total maximum downforce on the car. I think we ought to be able to see from the onboard camera footage whether or not the front wing deflects a few centimetres or not...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The maximum deflections allowed are a centimetre, and this is under loads equivalent to around a tenth of the total maximum downforce on the car. I think we ought to be able to see from the onboard camera footage whether or not the front wing deflects a few centimetres or not&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Will</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104586</link> <dc:creator>Will</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:49:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104586</guid> <description>There&#039;s always the possibility that they&#039;ve found a way round the deflection tests.For example, the tests generally only consider loading in one direction at a time. If deflection in one direction caused parts which were touching but not connected to slide out of line, it&#039;s conceivable that the wing would then become more flexible in another direction.Or if a stiffener in the wing only worked properly when it was warm, and hence slightly longer through thermal expansion. Plenty of warm air in a hot garage, perhaps, but after a bit of breeze in the installation lap, such a stiffener might cease to do its job.Of course Red Bull (or anyone else for that matter) would have to not only get one of these or an equally outlandish scheme of their own to work as described, but also for the resulting flexibility to help them aerodynamically, all at the risk that the door be closed with the addition of a new deflection test, which would probably be joined by penalisation for breaking the spirit of the &quot;no deformable bodywork&quot; rule itself.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s always the possibility that they&#8217;ve found a way round the deflection tests.</p><p>For example, the tests generally only consider loading in one direction at a time. If deflection in one direction caused parts which were touching but not connected to slide out of line, it&#8217;s conceivable that the wing would then become more flexible in another direction.</p><p>Or if a stiffener in the wing only worked properly when it was warm, and hence slightly longer through thermal expansion. Plenty of warm air in a hot garage, perhaps, but after a bit of breeze in the installation lap, such a stiffener might cease to do its job.</p><p>Of course Red Bull (or anyone else for that matter) would have to not only get one of these or an equally outlandish scheme of their own to work as described, but also for the resulting flexibility to help them aerodynamically, all at the risk that the door be closed with the addition of a new deflection test, which would probably be joined by penalisation for breaking the spirit of the &#8220;no deformable bodywork&#8221; rule itself.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nando</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104557</link> <dc:creator>Nando</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:38:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104557</guid> <description>How effective is the static scrutineering? Is there any facility for the FIA to do on track testing independently of the teams?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How effective is the static scrutineering? Is there any facility for the FIA to do on track testing independently of the teams?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David Smith</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104530</link> <dc:creator>David Smith</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:13:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104530</guid> <description>This is interesting something i found on the net.
http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7134/rb6germany.gifNot sure if the link will work if not copy and paste. James any thoughts?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting something i found on the net.<br
/> <a
href="http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7134/rb6germany.gif" rel="nofollow">http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7134/rb6germany.gif</a></p><p>Not sure if the link will work if not copy and paste. James any thoughts?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Obster</title><link>http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/german-grand-prix-tech-ferrari-updates-in-focus/comment-page-1/#comment-104529</link> <dc:creator>Obster</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:12:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/?p=8871#comment-104529</guid> <description>Perhaps Alonso has helped Ferrari get quickly on the pace with these updates to the car. He seems pretty adept at car development-mass dampers and so forth.
Nice suprise on Sunday from the red team.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps Alonso has helped Ferrari get quickly on the pace with these updates to the car. He seems pretty adept at car development-mass dampers and so forth.<br
/> Nice suprise on Sunday from the red team.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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