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Vettel cruises to win in controversial European Grand Prix
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Vettel cruises to win in controversial European Grand Prix
Posted By: James Allen  |  27 Jun 2010   |  2:56 pm GMT  |  381 comments

Sebastian Vettel won the European Grand Prix at Valencia today ahead of Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button.

But the stewards had a busy afternoon, investigating ten drivers in total.

It was Vettel’s second win of the season, the seventh of his career and it put him “back on track” as he said, after some races blighted with problems.

Rubens Barrichello capitalised on Williams’ improved performance and the safety car to pick up a well deserved fourth place, Robert Kubica was fifth and Adrian Sutil sixth. Kamui Kobayashi was a candidate for driver of the day with a barnstorming ride to seventh place.

Sebastien Buemi had a strong run helped by the safety car.

Sauber got both cars to the points for the first time this season, the first shoots of a recovery for the team.

It was another brilliant but controversial performance from Hamilton, who incurred a penalty which didn’t cost him any positions.

The majority of the race saw Vettel out on his own, as first Kobayashi got himself into third place during an early safety car period, which turned the race in the early stages and allowed Vettel and Hamilton to make a break.

Then Hamilton got a drive through penalty, which dropped him 15 seconds behind Vettel, but because of the Kobayashi factor he was able to serve the penalty without losing any positions, much to the fury of Ferrari and Fernando Alonso in particular.

The safety car was triggered by a monumental accident for Mark Webber, who flipped his Red Bull in a high speed collision with Heikki Kovalainen on lap 9.

Webber walked away from the accident, which is sure to raise all kinds of questions about the wisdom of rules to encourage overtaking by increasing speed differentials between cars.

At the start Hamilton passed Webber for second place into turn one, and as Webber got off line, the two Ferraris went through as well. As he struggled to recover and battled Button, Webber lost further ground, dropping to 9th place.

Hamilton had a run at Vettel into Turn 2 and the pair touched lightly, Hamilton reporting a vibration as a result.

Schumacher got a good start, jumping up to 11th from 15th on the grid. He started the race on the harder tyre, which gave him a strong tactical position. But that was squandered later when Mercedes mistimed his first stop and he had to wait at the pit lane exit as the cars behind the safety car went by.

In the opening stint Vettel pulled away from Hamilton at around half a second per lap, the Red Bull’s advantage was mainly in the faster corners of the final sector.

Webber made an early stop on lap 8 to try to jump ahead of the Williams cars, which were holding him up. But once again problems with the wheel nut delayed him by around four seconds.

On lap 9 Mark Webber suffered a huge accident when he closed quickly on the Lotus of Heikki Kovalainen and took off as he hit him. The Red Bull flew up into the air and flipped over, landing on its roll over hoop. With Webber having just pitted and dropped behind him, Kovalainen was trying to defend the position.

This brought out the safety car and a flurry of pit stops. Button was the first car to get to the pits and he jumped up to fourth as a result. He was followed by Barrichello and Kubica and Buemi.

Vettel and Hamilton pitted together, Hamilton taking the opportunity to change his front wing as he changed his tyres. They rejoined in first and second places.

The Ferraris lost out badly as the safety car came out just in front of them, Alonso dropping down to 9th place and Massa, who had to stack behind Alonso, dropped to P15.

At the restart Vettel made a mistake and Hamilton almost passed him, but Vettel held the position. With the safety car, Kobayashi did not pit and got himself up to third place. This held the field up and allowed the front two to get away at a second and a half per lap.

Alonso protested against Hamilton for overtaking the safety car as it was deployed and the stewards took a look at it during the race, giving him a drive though penalty.

Nine other drivers were investigated by the stewards for going too fast behind the safety car.

In the train behind Kobayashi, Button quickly fell to 10 seconds behind the leaders, with 13 cars nose to tail behind him.

Hamilton served the drive through penalty and stayed in second place, thanks to the train behind Kobayashi. Because it took the stewards quite a while to decide the penalty, this allowed a big enough gap to open up to Kobayashi for Hamilton to get a penalty-free penalty.

Kobayashi pitted with just four laps to go, rejoining ninth. This promoted Button to third place. On fresh tyres Kobayashi passed Alonso for eighth on the penultimate lap and Buemi on the last corner. It was the Kobayashi of old.

Hamilton retained his championhip lead to take to Silverstone in two weeks time.

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381 comments

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1

I am a Ferrari fan and Im upset with the shameful behaviour of Alonso who seems to be constantly WHINING bringing shame on himself and the team.

2

RACE WAS FIXED!

Ramilton should have been black flagged and the other 9 should have had a 20 – 30 sec pen

more scandalds! Ferrari should appeal and burn the FIA

3

redmist,

You have avoided the 2007 prevarication thing, the real issue that makes rules meaningless. For the time being however you are kindly referred to the notorious aggressor's own and I believe, phoney, apology as this is likely to be followed, as usual, by his next toys-thrown-out-of-pram act in the not too distant future. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=41277

4

Redmist, pretending you are not even remotely aware of what I have clearly stated won't do. Neither will trying and failing to refute my position. Clue: Plea bargain sucks big time.

5

my point! he should have been black flagged simple! its not the first time ither that Ramilton has passed the safety car It was 2006, GP2 race in Imola

6

Im not saying whos right or wrong but as a man if I were Alonso I would do my talking on the track the way hamilton does the fact that the rulings favoured Hamilton is not his fault the rules are there to be tested all great champions test them maybe Alonso should try it Oh yeah wasnt he involved in a race fixing scandal Alonso gets everything he deserves losing track position in the last corner what a mug he was probably whining on the radio at the time pound for pound Alonso is the most complete driver,so he needs too get back to racing the team need to give him and Massa a decent car Dominicalo get your act together PEACE

7

Redmix, for real (WMSC) prevaricating / fixing see Spygate and Crashgate. Everybody including true fans knew two super licences should have been withdrawn for life in 2007, but moral relativists in charge chose to please an alien, fickle mob instead.

8

Also not to mention the other 9! The FIA can't just make up the rules as they go along!

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 5 SEC PENALTY!

Ferrari can and should appeal against it Charlie should lose his job!

9

So you call deliberately holding up Alonso making it look like he was going to pull up behind the safety car and then going for it not bad then???

Looks like to me he slowed down way before the first corner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYyvHvO-jA&feature=player_embedded

Thought the safety car had a meaning to it!

Not to mention the 2009 lie gate! This bloke makes Schumacher look clean!

Btw I’m British but I’m disgraced to be after all that cheating that went on yesterday!

10

I'm no Alonso fan, but I think he has every right to be upset after this one. He lost a lot of points to one of his main championship rivals because his rival broke a rule and gained a big advantage.

11

James, I replied to you on Twitter that I thought it showed just how much Hamilton has got under Alonso's skin and therefore shows a weakness.

In post race interview Hamilton has suggested the same. Whilst I agree that Alonso has justification for feeling hard done by don't you think his complaint has more poignancy to him simply because it is Hamilton?

I imagine that Hamilton has gained a mental advantage over Alonso today and I think he will rather enjoy learning of Alonso's protestations.

12

I think you are wrong about the Hamilton grudge thing, Alonso wants to beat everyone which by definition means beating Hamilton as well as everyone else. I don't think Alonso likes Hamilton but to be honest I think you could say that about a lot of other drivers and fans, including myself.

Hamilton is by no means talent free but his career is largely manufactured which means he is more like the winner of "The X Factor" rather than Beethoven.

Anyway, the above is subjective but what is not subjective is the fact that Hamilton broke a very serious safety rule today and received (effectively) no punishment. That would get under anyone's skin and Alonso is no different. The message sent out by race control and the stewards today is to overtake the safety car and ignore safety car delta times as you will make up more time than the resulting penalty will cost you. Nice one guys!

I believe Alonso will soak this experience up and come out fighting at Silverstone. He is a much more mature driver than he used to be and will use this experience as positive reinforcement of his will to win. He who laughs last laughs longest! 🙂

13

The deployment of the safety car should surely not, of itself, change the race order. Of course, people may gain or lose advantage because of the chance of the timing of their pit stops. Here, through no fault of his own, Alonso lost 6 places. I wonder how even the most ardent Lewis fan can justify that? The point is not that LH gained places relative to Alonso bu that anyone did. Do the safety car related delta times need re-visiting? Having said that, all of this pales into insignifcance compared with Webber walking away from that shunt. Well done mate!

14

You know, under MS Ferrari were a power house. I can't help but feel they are doing damage to themselves as a team and as a brand by constantly moaning last few years. Their drivers moan. Team bosses moan. CEO moans. As a guy who has a Ferrari shirt or two from those MS years i'm sock and tired of these sore loosers. When they are on a taking end of a lucky or sneaky advantage no one at Ferrari moans. Alonso is a perfect fit on the post 2007 Ferrari team. I couldn't believe that was a two time champion wasting time, energy and concentration moaning on the radio. Why not pull over and ask FIA for a box of tissues?

15

The only one who was not moaning was axed out of the team.

16
Armchair Observer

My race observations:

- Webber scientifically proved Red Bull does gives you wings, after Vettel failed to prove it in Turkey.

- BBC commentators demand that drivers let their close friend Webber pass, even when they are in position to defend. Webber can never be blamed for his mistakes and bad judgement and the cars in front of him should dissolve into thin air.

- Spanish fans trying to sabotage the race by throwing a bottle on the track failed when Raikkonen dressed as a marshall made a sprint for it and collected it...ran all the way to that penthouse swimming pool we've seen 34 times during the race, to chill in it with the bikini girls while drinking the rather dull Spanish beer in the bottle.

- Alonso caused laughter when stating 'howwhat? ahemmeltun steel sekondah afta pinaltee???? nawt fairuh!!!'.

- Kobayashi makes Button remember Brasil 2009, showing he can still do it with a slower car with even a lack of colors.

- Backmarkers decided when getting lapped, the right way to do it is to race like it is your last race, drive the one in front of you off the track to make it easier for the frontrunners to lap the cars.

- Frentzen wanted to break the record of how many cars at once one can penalize after the race, wanting to enable Schumacher to get the 3rd position.

- Spanish director of the broadcast did not replay the humiliating and awesome move in front of the Spanish audience by Kobayashi on Alonso anymore. He did replay Kobayashi's brilliant last corner move on Buemi and made sure Alonso wasn't in the shot, way in the back sulking.

- Kobayashi is just an amazing driver. Give him the tools to show it.

- Vettel seems a bit deaf when talking to other drivers, everytime another driver says something to him he says, 'heeeh?'.

17

@Armchair Observer, Well done. 🙂 I wonder if Kobayashi thought of Alonso as a backmarker...?

18
Carlos Eduardo Del Valle

Now that's excelent. Thanks for that, Lmao

19

Thank you for making my weekend reading ending in tears of laughter!

20

I enjoyed your take on the race and agree with it. You mentioned the BBC commentators, does anyone else feel embarrassed by Eddie Jordan's antics? I thought he was quite a fresh change when he first came on last year but now I squirm at his self praising comments no matter what the subject.

I was quite surprised by Clive Chapman's put down prior to the race and thought that Martin Brundle was quite embarrassed by the cutting remark.

21

Tell us more. I didn't hear about that, what happened?

22

I couldn't help but think that it was a case of many a true word said in jest, but to my mind it certainly curtailed the conversation speedily.

23

I think that's when Eddie alluded to a business deal during the 90's where Jordan and Lotus almost merged(or something), and Chapman said "we were just using you Eddie".

I do remember being surprised but then put it down to a joke between friends.

24

one really funny perspective this is 🙂

25

"Alonso caused laughter when stating ‘howwhat? ahemmeltun steel sekondah afta pinaltee???? nawt fairuh!!!’."

Genius mate...pure genius...i'm still laughing!

:o)

26

This has got to be the funniest comment I've ever read in JA blog. Nice one mate.

27

That was a surprisingly good race, with an excellent, well-deserved result for Kamui.

I just hope the stewards don't mess around with the results too badly - while it would be good to see a Sauber get third, it would be much better if they got their moment on the podium.

And great to see Webber got through that crash unhurt.

28

James, I am 100% sure that the whole world understands that the decision of stewards was manipulated - Alonso and Massa stayed behind the safety car, as they should and Hamilton did not. More words are not needed - SHAME FOR THE SPORT. PERIOD.

29

3 points:

1) Hamilton did not overtake the safety car. The safety car was in the pitlane with alonso behind; Hamilton was ontrack at the time. This nonsense of drawing various lines across the track and penalising champions for the stewards interperation of them is making a joke of the sport.

2)why did the stewards decide to wait until after the race to penalise half the field for breaking the rules? As this was a clear matter of fact, the offenders should have been handed drive-through penalties - and everyone would know where the stand.

James, do you know on what grounds the stewards decide to issuse a drive-through or postpone the decision until after the race?

3)After the ledgend Schumacher passed the sleeping whinger in Monaco, after the safety car pulled in, after the so called "safety car line", under green flags, the stewards accepted that there were 2 different interputations of the rule. They however stated that they had no other option but to penalise Schumacher 25 seconds.....

Now; where has this 5 second, safety car related penalty come from? why was this not available to the stewards in Monaco??

Another example of the FIA making it up as they go along...

30

oh for goodness sake...

the reason the decision took so long was because the overtake of the safety care was so marginal...Lewis broke the rules by a tiny margin, to the point that he was confident he was in front fairly, it took the stewards time to get hold of the data and review the video footage...to me looking at the TV footage I thought Lewis's was just in front so I think it is fair enough they took their time to be sure, it is after all their job! ... he did hesitate though, and that probably caused Alonso to get stuck, but then that is Lewis' right as he had track position at that point... so Alonso should shut up and drive his own race.

There is no conspiracy, this was just one of those things, like Lewis losing his place at Spa in 2008...what goes around comes around...

I guess the problem with a drive through penalty has always been that the person serving it may have enough time to get in and out without losing a position. It must have happened before...

In fact I believe MS won a race (Silverstone?) in the pit lane serving a stop and go penalty! Sometimes it goes your way...sometimes it doesn't...

Just goes to show how close it all is at the top.

31

Reading throught to post-race conference there's a moment when Hamilton is asked whether he doubted before passing the SC, and he says 'no'. But the images show he slowed down for a moment, then floored it again when he decided he was going to pass the SC after all. Which to me looks like he is lying (remember, it would not be the first time).

Alonso has every right to be p**sed off, but he cannot afford his whining image to grow. As the man himself said on Tv after the race, all things normal he would have still finished 8th or 9th, with Hamilton just in front. It's in his own interest to let this story die and get on with his season.

The bottom line is, there is a pattern during the last 3-4 years where Hamilton has been consistently stretching a number of rules with little or no penalty, only for those rules to be strengthened right after his actions.

32

He thinks Hamilton backed him up on purpose to put him behind the safety car and screw his race.

So, he was most annoyed that Hamilton did this. Wasn't really anything to do with passing the safety car. The complaint was an attempt to reciprocate - to penalize a competitor.

And, when that failed unsurprisingly you have red mist. One of your main competitor just used the situation to the max, to screw your race. It can be argued that this is 'unsporting' but it ain't cheating (as far as I know - since there AFAIK there is no rule about backing up a competitor).

Hamilton however didn't quite time it right, thus overtook the safety car *AFTER* the line. For him to end up coming out of this without losing a position must have made Alonso blow a fuse.

Alonso will have to get past this though - the last thing any of these guys can afford is to let one of their competitors 'get in their head'.

33

Not only was it marginal, but the original complaint from Alonso was that Hamilton was going too slowly, and backed him up to be trapped behind the SC.

LH did indeed back off on seeing the SC, and had he kept his speed up, would have avoided his transgression. There is no guarantee though that Alonso himself wouldn't then have been caught out. In fact he probably would have, as he says he was only one second behind Hamilton.

34

That for me is the interesting question - Is there a rule which precludes a driver from backing up another putting them at a disadvantage.

My guess is that there isn't - after all it's a very unusual marginal situation. It would only occur when two drivers are approaching the safety car line almost at the exact same time as the safety car.

Plus, if I understand correctly, the drivers have a time 'delta' they have to drive to - i.e. a minimum and maximum time, then they have to be have enough margin in that delta to slow down to put their competitor behind the safety car.

All very unusual.

If Hamilton used the rules to his advantage then very smart thinking, and I would class it as great gamesmanship - NOT cheating. The difference of course importantly being cheating is breaking the rules, gamesmanship is using the rules to your upmost benefit.

Something which I'm absolutely convinced Alonso would have done if the positions were reversed. I can totally understand it pissing him off though, as it did screw his race. But... all's fair in love and war.

35

I'd love to know how it was marginal. From the helicopter shot even stevie wonder could see Hamilton was behind when they crossed the line. The amount of British based bias on here is unbelievable. The fact is lewis gained a huge amount for so little punishment. If he stuck to the rules like alonso did he would have finished behind alonso and maybe massa. People are forgetting he had to change his front wing. So that takes a dozen seconds or so and two Ferrari stops take 10 seconds at most. So maybe you can see why Ferrari and alonso are so annoyed. The team that broke the rules gained end of.

36

Pit Lap Time in Pit

Lewis 10 25.971

Fernando 10 20.649

Felipe 10 22.571

data from http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=375013&FS=F1

37

A common sence comment, i agree with you 100% Alonso has a bit of a cheek stating the race was manipulated, Piquet faking a crash to allow his team mate Alonso to pit 1st and win the race in 2008, now that is manipulation, not what Lewis did. Like you said the margin was so minimal, there was no intent there, it was just circumstance. Have a listen to Lewis's interview on the bbc F1 website, it is great the way he answers the questions, he makes Alonso sound pathetic which we know he his. Alonso really needs to grow up and concentrate on his race not Lewis. Oh and ive just remembered when Alonso waited to back Lewis up in the pits with mclaren so Lewis did not have the time to make quali. What goes around comes around. Lets just hope Alonso can get over this for the next race, im not sure he will.

38

Brent: It may look obvious from the helicopter shot after the event but not from where Lewis was in his car. Why on earth would Lewis purposly pass the saftey car after he crossed the line knowing he was going to get a penalty? At the time he would have no clue as to how things would turn out and would not want a penalty thats for sure. He just misjudged it as had he accelerated 1 second before he would have made it. Im really commenting on Alonsos outbursts considering his past. You have to admit he does seem obsessed with Lewis. The redbulls did not have an issue like Alonso or ferrari and its them that could really do with lewis not scoring so heavily.With safety cars there are winners and loosers, next time round it will no doubt be Lewis who gets effected, but you can bet he wont react like Alonso thats for sure.

39

DK when I read the drivel of Hamilton fans like yourself it makes me laugh. Hamilton cheats and Alonso is the bad guy, what a warped perspective. You sound like you believe Hamilton would admit it if he knew he passed the safety car illegally. His past lying would tell us differently.

40

What an arguments to defend Hamilton cheating. Is there in England any person who defend a race fair & square? Are real the holiganism even in F1? The BBC scientific shows are one of the best in TV, please try to learn some maths and understand cause and consequences to a good and a bad action. You are the evil in thios movie guys. You have the power and you decide for the glorious empire. Hamilton can do weaving, dangerous driving in pits, runnig out fuel in qualy, overtake SC, but no moaning spaniards "we can have the control" and Charlie and friends do their jobs brilliantly. No space for reasons here, just defend the english golden boy. Great example, great attittude, congratulations pirates, you have won again.

41

Hamilton only "broke the rules by a tiny margin". It was a "marginal" overtake was it DC, I remember seeing him pass the safety car after the line and accelerate away. Maybe Frentzen had to bring in forensic experts, but the rest of us saw the infraction first replay.

42

I am starting to think Alonso is using the Lewis penalty to cover for his own very poor performance in the race; how did that incidence change the race for him - Button, Barichello and Kubica could still have beaten him. Indeed if he had done anything close to a decent job as Kobayashi had done, he could have salvaged 6th. How rediculous it sounds for Ferrari's lead driver to explain that he finished 8th because Lewis finished 2nd - crazy! What is the cause and effect relationship between those two?

43

My guess is that you'll find that Alonso thinks Lewis purposely backed up behind the safety car, intending that only Lewis would be able to go past the safety car *just* before passing the safety car line. Thus effectively penalizing Alonso.

If so, and if there is nothing in the rules to preclude this, then smart gamesmanship from Hamilton.

You can be sure that Alonso as another fierce competitor would have done the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

Combine that with his history with Lewis, and you have a very pissed off Alonso.

44

James, now that refuelling is banned, do you think that the pits should be closed during SCs again?

It was a problem in the past as cars could run out of fuel, but that issue is gone now.

45

No I think the pits should be open as it provides a chance to shake things up, much needed with no refuelling strategy

46
malcolm.strachan

I completely disagree. The pits should be closed. It should never be an advantage to be in 10th place and be a disadvantage to be in the top three.

Beyond that, the pits should remain closed until the leaders are behind the safety car. If the safety car is slow out of the pits, then the leaders should not be able to gain an entire lap. That is patently ridiculous. One of two things should happen: 1) either the remaining field should be waved by the safety car until the leader is the first car behind the safety car, or 2) the leader should be radioed to slow down and wait for the safety car. The pits should remain closed until this is all sorted out.

Leaving the pits open under the whole caution is like randomly reversing grids. It is not a fair thing to do in a sport, and is more like a gimmick than anything.

I can't believe that more people aren't lambasting the safety car rules and procedures, since Vettel and Hamilton gained a wildly unfair advantage by not getting picked up by the safety car and Button, et al, got another unfair advantage by being just slow enough in the first 9 laps to take advantage of bad pitlane rules... and Alonso, is hung out to dry. I don't like the guy, but there is no denying he got a raw deal on Sunday.

47

No please leave it open. Adds interest, has an element of danger attached, which is ironic.

48

I have to disagree,unless a car is badly damaged,ie engine or body work,there is no need for cars to enter the pit lane once a SC is deployed,the whole spectacle today ruined the chance for fans to see SV,LH,FA,FM battle.

This F1 not GP2,and as for the penalties,they bore no relation to advantages gained,they were in fact a token jesture at best.

49

Safety car: close the pitlane until the cars are in the right order after the safety car. Then open the pitlane (there is no fuel problem anymore). If cars decide to pit it is at least a clear situation of the order and the consequences of pitting. Now it is a lottery. Again Valencia turns into a non-watchable race (okay, the Webber-Kovalainen clash was spectacular)

50
malcolm.strachan

Exactly! This lottery is ridiculous.

51

Actually this is an excellent point about the fuel. The rule was only changed because of cars running out of fuel when the pit was closed. This would be a lot clearer to spectators than deltas.

52

Now alonso is saying this was a 'manipulated' race because he was 9th and hamilton 2nd.... Hamilton served his penalty and worked hard to retain his 2nd place

when i think of a MANIPULATED race i think of singapore 08 when alonso only said 'no comments'.... Now he wants to comment... How funny

53

Served penalty long after he reaped the fruits of the his scam. By the time he was penalized, he already took what he needed from the situation and could afford the penalty. If he was penalized when he made mistake he would have ended up on the read end of the pack while cars were bunched up.

James, this is really travesty! How can stewards allow this to keep happening? This 5s penalty is also crap. If Alonso overtook safety car, drove fast race with Vettel and Hamilton, he would have finished much higher.

So where's the justice in that?!?

54

How sarcastic - Ferrari talking about unfairness and Alonso winner of the Renault fixed Singapore 2008 race talking about manipulation. I couldnt believe the amount of whinning from the Spaniard - he let Lewis who was minding his own business totally ruin his race; Alonso appears very fragile psychologically, even more fragile than most people believed - if i were LDM i would be realising i made a mistake on kicking Kimi out of the team.

55

You really do need to get over your Alonso complex!

56

mtb,

CH1UNDA made an accurate comment which you failed to refute. I merely brought you back to reality, as only a fool or a fraud thinks of plea bargain as a good, hence ElFred's superlicense is and can only be invalid regardless of the moral relativists who didn't take it (and PdlR's) away for life in 2007.

57

Alberto Dietz

And your point is what exactly?

I am not a fan of Alonso, never have been, and doubt that I ever will be. Hopefully that addresses the basis for your comment.

58

You mean complex like in:

"The e-mails show unequivocally that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Stepney."

(from p. 4 of the 13 September 2007 WMSC Decision)

59

Once again, different rules for Lewis and the rest. One car overtakes the SC; others, don't. The one that overtakes (in breach of the rules) gets no penalty (ok, he has been told seriously not to do it again, like when running out of fuel, like when changing three times his direction not to be overtaken by Petrov), and at the end of the day is 2nd. The ones that respect the rules are 9th or worse...

60

I don't think you watched the race, because he did get a penalty.

Hilarious.

61

People seem to have missed the point, Hamilton's original investigation was NOT actually about him overtaking the Safety Car, but about driving too slow when the SC warning appeared in their cars and holding up Alonso so that Alonso was stuck behind the safety car when they arrived at the 2nd SC line. Alonso complained about THIS and that started the investigation. McLaren retaliated initially by saying he was driving in accordance to the DELTA SPEED. The stewards only THEN realized that Hamilton actually overtook the SC illegally after finding nothing wrong with his speed on the data sheets during the SC period (courtesy of video footage). This speed during SC issue, is then what triggered the investigation into the other 9 cars afterwards which recieved their 5 second penalties. That is actually why it took so long. Safety Car periods are ALWAYS lottery situations and Alonso has benefited strongly from previous such periods. Hamilton innocently thought he was right to pass and was penalized accordingly, served his punishment and issue was finished and done. For Alonso to STILL be livid about the rookie that upstaged him all those years ago, in this day and age is both shocking and incredibly embarassing. Someone needs to sit him down and explain the way of the world to him. That sort of behaviour was okay back in school but now he must GROW UP and accept that Hamilton has just been a much better driver from day 1!!

62
Jean-Christophe

Gets no penalty??

63

He lost the chance to fight for 1st. He served his penalty and worked lots of fast laps to stay 2nd. A penalty is a penalty and he served it.

64

What a joke of a race... Pathetic. Shame on the FIA!

65

James, why in your opinion it took so many lapos to Race Control to investigate Lewis overtaking the medical car? Was it so difficult to tell? IMO, should he had been penalised sooner, the penalty would have costed him some racing positions. Do you agree?

66

It certainly was a long time and in that time Hamilton built a big enough lead to take the penalty and come out in P2. That does not seem fair

67

he only built a lead because Kobayashi was slow. That wasn't his fault. It was just the way the flower bloomed.

68

What's not fair here is that the FIA had to wait for Alonso to complain before any action was taken. No one seems to mention that, Sad hey.

69

Are you sure that the FIA waited for Alonso to complain? Remember, there were 10 cars who broke the rules at that stage. The stewards were undoubtedly busy.

70

yeah not to mention they waited 30 min to give out the penalty! of course he would have made up more time by then

should have been black flagged!

71

life isn't fair. And f1 suffered again because of it.

72

I'm sorry I have to disagree...looking at it on TV it looked marginal to me... i think they took their time to simply get the facts straight. It must take time to gather the data and review the footage...maybe there was a difference of opinion in the stewards office...

Will they publish the transcript? I Thought that was something new for this year, yet i've not seen one yet from any of the decisions made.

73

In reply to Eric...

Lewis was alongside the SC not behind when they crossed the line the stewards needed to take that into account. That is what made it marginal. From the on board you could not see the SC as Lewis crossed the line. Lewis himself thought he was in front. Alonso is where he is in the table because he is not quick enough. Nothing wrong with my eyes.

74

It probably looked marginal to you because you're viewing it with biased eyes. This is as far as I've read, and the amount of nonsensical posts is astounding. Especially those who are can't seem to understand why Alonso should be angry. Had Hamilton not broken the rules, he would have finished directly in front of Alonso. Look at the points distribution and it's pretty clear why Alonso is rightfully angry.

75

Let's be clear - for Alonso to after the race say that the race was, quote "manipulated" is a joke.

This is the man who won the Singapore GP in 2008 because his team mate crashed on purpose. Not his fault? Well maybe, if you believe that he had no input into it, but even so, when asked later if he still counted it as a win, he said yes.

Eddie Jordan called it right after the race, Alonso has this hatred eating him up.

And for Domenicali to act the way he did when his team have purposefully manipulated the testing rule so that they test new parts on a filming session is also quite funny.

I'm not saying Hamilton did nothing wrong, but he paid a penalty, and Ferrari and Alonso have to stop constantly playing this holier than thou attitude game. Also maybe Alonso's true colours might be showing in Ferrari now, after the way he belittled the guy on his radio in front of millions of people.

Within 24 hours of now di Montezemolo will be saying some new rule or other that has to be changed.

76

Yeah Eddie Jordan is 100% correct. Alonso is so hell bent with hatred it is blatantly obvious. At first the general concensus was that he was angry with McLaren and his relationship with Hamilton was always fine, but after this weekend one has to wonder. Surely by now he should have let go of it? If he feels so hard done by, he must relinquish that farce of a 2008 victory which he diligently declares a valid one. Talk about being a hypocrit of note!!! Hahaha!!

77

I think you are right. Surely this is a simple case of "you win some, you lose some." I think that Alonso and Ferrari are trying to cover over the cracks of their inept performances.

I am now surprised that Alonso did not cry foul when Hamilton overtook him when he was baulked by Buemi. His obvious insecurities are bound to seek a conspiracy at every juncture at this rate.

78

You were right - he has demanded the safety car rule be changed. LOL

79

James maybe next race there should be another competition like you held re. Virgin qualifying yesterday, only this time;

"who can guess which rule Ferrari will say needs sorting out after Silverstone"?

Lol!

81
Jean-Christophe

Can't agree more on this. I'm just amazed at how unprofessional Alonso and Ferrari sound.

Such comments coming from fans could be understood, but from a 2 times WDC and a team that have made such an impact in formula one is just shameful

82

Look to Montezemolo.

He sets the tone for the organization. A vain arrogant man with a tendency to polemics.

83

I've never been Kobayashi's biggest fan, but he was exceptional today. His pace in the middle of the race when he was a few tenths off the leaders on older tyres was phenomenal. It really was the Kobayashi we saw in Abu Dhabi. Now he needs to work on delivering this performance consistently. I just don't get the feeling that he could ever string a championship together. He's like a less error prone version of Sato in the respect that he has some amazing giant killing performances like today

84

Fantastic performance! He deserved a podium!

85

The Ferrari`s are such a lame car in this time of year. Alonso, proved again that he is a better talker than a driver. The man o the race Kobayashi, for passing big mouth alonso:)))), good job mate;)

86

And Alonso is moaning about a "manipulated race" already? What is it about Ferrari and their sour grapes?

According to Autosport he's whining about how "Unfortunately everything goes against us and it seems they are allowing everything." Even if this one decision was a little shaky, he seems to have forgotten about the many that always seemed to work in their favour instead.

87

What's the point of a penalty if it's a 'penalty free penalty' as James says!

The one's committing the offenses shouldn't be the ones that benefit the most from them!

88

Of course it was a penalty.

It's like saying if a penalty in football isn't scored then they should be able to keep taking it again and again until they do score to make sure the other team is punished. Webber won a race last year despite a drive-through. Should he now give up that win?

89

I cant agree with you more TM... you're right on the money there. This whole issue of the effect of a penalty being issued and visibly felt is nonsense, it's not hamilton's fault that Kobayashi was holding up the pack by over a second a lap at that stage. Hamilton took a chance and got punished, he cud easily have falled way behind even Alonso if the rest of the pack was right up close behind and at race leaders pace. Hamilton had NO WAY of knowing how things would be when the SC returned to the pits and therefore could NOT have 'manipulated' the race as the baseless accussation goes. What I would like to know is, who was doing the manipulation, and what was the original plan? Let me guess, to make sure Alonso doesn't win? In Spain? Yeah right!!

90

Was it really a 'penalty-free' penalty? It dropped Hamilton far enough back to mean he couldn't have a go at Vettel for the lead, even though he was demonstrably faster in the closing stages. He was also lucky in managing to rejoin the race just ahead of the 3rd and 4th cars (though, I admit, Hamilton is a driver who proves the saying that 'you make your own luck').

The drive-through was a fitting penalty for a minor infringement of the rule that a driver should drop behind the safety car if it's not ahead at the 2nd SC line. On the helicopter shot you could clearly see Hamilton dithering slightly and I believe he thought he had got away without infringing the rule.

Truly Alonso is a mardy bum (as we say in Yorkshire); he knows Hamilton served a fair penalty, yet he's still not happy because Hamilton got lucky and he, Fernando, was not able to benefit from that penalty.

91

Vettel demonstrated that he could go quicker when required. Given the nature of the track, I am not sure that Hamilton would ever have got past.

92

It's worth noting that McLaren set the fastest lap of the race. Without the penalty

Hamilton may well of pressured Vettel into making another mistake.

If Hamilton had not taken overtaken the SC Button would have been running second because he pitted earlier. He was the one who set the fastest lap once in clean air.

93
Jean-Christophe

May be. But the Red Bull is known for having reliability issues. So who knows what might happened if vettel had to push his car. Instead he just crused to victory?

94

Alonso's mid race raging about Hamilton was so revealing, talk about obsessed !

"Pit : 5 cars in front of us are under investigation for the safety car, so i want you to stay cool" Forgetting to mention Hamilton has served his, and is not one of them.

FA to Spanish TV [Translated] "for the 70 000 spectators here it was a race corrupted, [manipulada, no real]"

Posters whining about drivers who get drive through penalties, yet loose nothing, might do well to remember Webber, recently, twice and obviously, Schumi for famously winning a race in the pitlane.

95

That comment was made after Alonso had been told that Hamilton's penalty was served.

96

Kobayashi in the Sauber, wins my Driver of the Day hands down!

97

James,

For me, Hamilton overtaking the medical car was worthy of more than a drive throh penalty, especially if it turns out that Hamilton or Mclaren were intentionally trying to trap Alonso behind it. When Hamilton was asked in the press conference what happened he had a similar look in his eye when he said he "couldn't remember" as he had when embroiled in liar-gate.

Any evidence of pit radio traffic between Hamilton and the team about their intentions as Hamilton crossed the start finish line? He seemed to back right off very very early. If he had kept on it then both he and Fernando would have cleared the medical car. Was this him getting his own back on Fernando after that race in 2007 when Fernando made him wait in the pits to stop him putting in an extra qualy lap?

Look at his eyes in the press conference and see if you believe he "can't remember" what happened...

Cheers,

Craig.

98

I doubt Lewis thinks about Alonso as much as Alonso thinks about Lewis. To Alonso, it appeared the objective was to beat Lewis whilst for the Briton, the objective was beat the rest of the field - which is what the sport is all about. The one who got his objectives right maximised the points haulage.

99

I don't think Lewis 'thinks' very much when out there which is both a blessing and a curse. Then he blames the team when they make the wrong call for him regarding tyres etc.

Alonso was closing Hamilton down today until the safety car ruined our prospect of a good race between the two. Alonso didn't have the chance to race the leaders today which is the main reason he is upset. He was 3rd before the safety car and something like 12th after it. In retrospect he should have overtaken the safety car as well and then he would have probably beaten Hamilton because he needed a new nose at his stop and Alonso didn't.

Not fair!! Muchas!

😉

100

If, if, if... Alonso should let the wheels do the talking. We are getting tired of his 'ifs' after every race. In Montreal it was 'if the backmarkers hadnt held me, i would have won'. before that he had many other 'ifs'. Well, if hamilton hadnt taken a hit on his nose he would have won. if webber hadnt lost places on the first lap, he would have finished second and avoided the shunt. If Chandok had a Mclaren, he would have taken a podium. if, if, if, we could let the racing be decided on the track rather than on the microphone!

101

This is why there needs to be a human variable in the penalty process. The stewards should have penalised Hamilton as they did, but, also been able to take into account any advantage he had gained due to the delay in the decision and passed that on for a stop-go penalty. They made a great leap forward by adding a former driver to the stewards panel, then get archaic in the penalty process. It is really runing a great sport!

102

P.S. Had Alonso breached the rules as Hamilton did theoretically he would have finished 3rd, so this asks the question, Alonso followed the rules and lost, next time this sort of thing arises, will he ignore the rules and just accept the ridiculously small penalty for putting his own life and others in danger. The FIA is too tight with its penalties, they need to relax them a bit and let the panel judge the penalty. For crying out loud, what is the point of having former drivers on the panel if they still can't make the penalty fit the crime! The same as Schumacher being held up in the pits by an errant red light when he clearly had time to go, and button being penalised for his delta time for the sector when he got the slow down message just before he crossed the line. It really was a joke. My point above about the cars all slowing and pits closing would solve all these issues.

104

Sorry but I absolutely disagree. It's not Hamilton's fault how much time they took to decide. If penalties are going to be given based on that then they should stop mid race penalties and just demote drivers a certain number of places at the end. There are far too many variables for penalties to be handed out in that way; i.e. if this time it was too long then what isn't? What would be the exact cut-off time for him to deserve a stop-go?

105

The determination for the stop-go would be the laps elapsed since the infringement. When it is such a simple thing to check the overhead and see that Hamilton overtook the SC, the infringement should have been levelled at him within 3 laps. The easy option would be that under safety car, the pits are immediately closed (no re-fuelling so no-one needs to pit) and the entire grid must slow to Pit lane limited speed on track until the safety car can overtake and assume the lead, then the cars can form up behind it. This would solve all these problems and then allow for an entertaining race instead of a ruined race that wasn't worth watching after lap 15!

106

Apparently Alonso needs a 1-year break to cool down his nerves. Inability to pass Sutil and Buemi, followed by losing his place to Kobayashi, is a real disaster.

107

How many overtaking manoeuvres were made in the race? Kobayashi's late charge, whilst excellent, was aided by fresh tyres.

108

I'm a big fan of Fernando, but even I have to say it: Boy, oh boy! does this guy need help!

He was literally going ballistic over the radio after Hamilton escaped unharmed from his drive-through penalty.

I suppose for all his genius and skill, 3 years having not held the championship has made him desperate or driven him crazy altogether. Sadly, that's what's making him vulnerable. I really hope he comes out of it.

109

Will be upset if the FIA gives a time penalty to the 9 drivers who "Aledgedly" broke the safety car speed limit. The drivers themselves said that the Safety car was initiated too late for them to realise. A grid penalty for Silverstone would suffice, but if it is a time penalty, then what happens to Hulkenberg, who crashed out? He looked extremely upset...

110

Anyone else sick of Alonso's incessant whinging? Oh how I cheered when Kobayashi passed both him and Buemi at the end. Yes I know he was on fresh tyres but an inspired strategy, skilfully carried out. So glad and relieved that Webber looks OK too.

111

I used to support Alonso vehemently from 2005 to mid 2008 when his relationship with McLaren was coming apart at the seams because he wanted 'preferentail treatment' and McLaren refused to favour him. His bitterness is surely worthy of professional help as it's bordering on an illness now. The whole race was ruined because Hamilton came 2nd while he came 8th? No one else on the track seems to think so, LOL!! Ferrari have a major liability in that guy. Funny how Massa is incredibly quiet this year though - wonder why.

112

The sad thing is that Alonso is (or at least was) good enough not to have to resort to this bitching and whining. He should concentrate on letting his driving do the talking.

113

That's an interesting concept there (that he was good enough) - do you think that perhaps he already peaked and there is nothing more to come from him? I happen to think he WAS a good driver, but not necessarily a shockingly fast one. He has always had one thing going for him and that is a 'never give up' attitude. His success may have been misconstrued by himself as being a very good driver which I have to disagree with, for one I think given the same car, Kobayashi would whip him from pillar to post coz that chap is a dare devil and just straight up fast! Massa needs to believe in himself more and he can do exactly the same.

114

James do you not think that they should close the pit lane again when the safety car comes out ala pre 2009. The reason this rule was abolished was because teams who needed to make a fuel stop were unfairly penalised.

Now as refuelling is now banned there is no reason for teams to make a pit stop during this time and would stop the nonsense we got today where the Ferraris were penalised so heavily for the safety car coming out.

115

The safety car seems to be presenting a lot of problems, if you think back to Monaco. In previous SC rules it was very unfair if drivers were caught out needing fuel when it was deployed. It's time for a real rethink on the S Car, in my view

116

I don't understand why the stewards are needed in these sorts of situation. The computer knows where the line is, where Lewis was and where the safety car was. The correct decision to award a drive through penalty could have been taken immediately by a computer.

Having said that, if Hamilton had been given a penalty immediately and then finished out of the points then he would have been very hard done by considering everyone else only got 5 second penalties.

Infringements of the rules need rigidly defined penalties to avoid any doubt of bias.

However I don't think that there was a deliberate attempt by Hamilton to break the rules any more than I think the FIA are trying to manipulate the race.

117

It's quite obvious from the Helicopter shot that Hamilton overtook the safety car. From the car shot it isn't. So it could be that the stewards decided straight away that it was a penalty but spent some time debating how much.

118

The stewards were probably busy with all ten cases.

119

I don't think a re-think is needed. There are already so many rule changes and grey areas that drivers have no idea what to do. Hamilton marginally broke the rules, served the penalty and that should be the end of it. Alonso got held up out of pure bad luck and he and Ferrari should have concentrated on their own race rather than worry about Hamilton's.

Ferrari need to stop denigrating the on track action. Just get on with it.

120

Hamiltons situation is not really an issue, neither is the 9 drivers who were under investigation. It is the fact that 2 drivers from 1 team were penalised severely (especially Felipe). It is because the safety car came out at a certain point.

121

I repeat my comment. I´m not trying to disturb (my post is "waiting for moderation", mmm.

All this manipulation…

James, your point of view shoud be free, have the courage to say the true about the safety car and what happened. A driver forget about the rules and his punishment means nothing.

¿Why is Charles Whiting commanding these decisions?

God, Todt will make good Mosley´s baloney.

Thank you

122
Jean-Christophe

He did not forget about the rule. I think the contrary should be said. He slowed down wondering wether he should pass the SC or not. Had he not done that, he would have cleared the SC and all this controversy would not have come up. Why risk a drive through? May be he knew at the time that Kobayashi would hold everybody up

123

very well said. the thing is that everything is coming out right for him. He is on the zone, and the opposite can be said about alonso and ferrari.

Mclaren and hamilton have the habit... the winning habit.

124

Nothing to do with Charley Whiting, it was a Steward decision. He's race director not a steward, at least that is my understanding of the setup.

125

Sorry about this, if JA believes it, please delete it:

40) SAFETY CAR

40.1 The FIA safety car will be driven by an FIA appointed driver and will carry an FIA observer capable of

recognising all the competing cars who is in permanent radio contact with race control.

40.2 Thirty minutes before the start of the formation lap the safety car will take up position at the front of the grid

and remain there until the five minute signal is given. At this point (except under 40.14 below) it will cover a

whole lap of the circuit and take up position.

40.3 The safety car may be brought into operation to neutralise a race upon the order of the clerk of the course.

It will be used only if competitors or officials are in immediate physical danger but the circumstances are

not such as to necessitate suspending the race.

40.4 When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be

displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards

for the duration of the intervention.

40.5 From this time, any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially

dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards.

This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

40.6 The safety car will join the track with its orange lights illuminated and will do so regardless of where the

race leader is.

40.7 All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car

lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which the “SAFETY

CAR DEPLOYED” message is shown on the timing monitors until the time that each car crosses the first

safety car line for the first time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU.

With the following exceptions, no car may overtake until it has passed the first safety car line for the first

time when the safety car is returning to the pits. However, if the safety car is still deployed at the beginning

of the last lap, or is deployed during the last lap, Article 40.13 will apply.

- if a car is signalled to do so from the safety car ;

- under 40.14 below ;

- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has

crossed the first safety car line ;

- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second

safety car line ;

- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has

crossed the first safety car line ;

- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10

below) may be overtaken ;

- if any car slows with an obvious problem.

40.8 When ordered to do so by the clerk of the course the observer in the car will use a green light to signal to

any cars between it and the race leader that they should pass. These cars will continue at reduced speed

and without overtaking until they reach the line of cars behind the safety car.

40.9 The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind

him.

Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within ten car lengths of it (except under 40.11

below) and all remaining cars must keep the formation as tight as possible.

40.10 Whilst the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the track

when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the safety car and

the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit . A car rejoining the track must

proceed at an appropriate speed until it reaches the end of the line of cars behind the safety car.

Under certain circumstances the clerk of the course may ask the safety car to use the pit lane. In these

cases, and provided its orange lights remain illuminated, all cars must follow it into the pit lane without

overtaking. Any car entering the pit lane under these circumstances may stop at its designated garage

area.

40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN

THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will

be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.

At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than

ten car lengths behind it.

In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which

the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or

braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and, other

than on the last lap of the race, replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be

displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

40.12 Each lap completed while the safety car is deployed will be counted as a race lap.

40.13 If the safety car is still deployed at the beginning of the last lap, or is deployed during the last lap, it will

enter the pit lane at the end of the lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without

overtaking.

40.14 Under certain circumstances the race may be started behind the safety car or resumed in accordance with

Article 42.5(a). In either case, at the ten minute signal its orange lights will be illuminated, this being the

signal to the drivers that the race will be started (or resumed) behind the safety car. At the same time a

message confirming this will be displayed on the timing monitors.

When the green lights are illuminated the safety car will leave the grid with all cars following in grid order

no more than ten car lengths apart. During a race start there will be no formation lap and race will start

when the green lights are illuminated.

Overtaking, during the first lap only, is permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars

behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field. In this case, drivers may

only overtake to re-establish the original starting order.

Any driver who is delayed leaving the grid may not overtake another moving car if he was stationary after

the remainder of the cars had crossed the Line, and must form up at the back of the line of cars behind the

safety car. If more than one driver is affected, they must form up at the back of the field in the order they

left the grid.

Either of the penalties under Articles 16.3a) or b) will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the

Stewards, unnecessarily overtook another car during the first lap.

126

Lewis should get stop/go penalty

127

hamilton reminds me more and more of schumacher. being close to the limit of legality and most of the times coming out on top.

128

Hamilton hasnt put any driver in danger yet.

129

er... I've never seen Hamilton drive into anybody (let alone twice!) for a championship. I've never seen him pretend to crash to block the rest of qualifying.

130
Prof Bolshaviks

I've never seen Schumacher lie about a car passing him under the safety car. Also I've never seen Schumacher overtake the safety car when he shouldn't.
Get over it, Schumacher has done some things, Hamilton has done some things. Stop being blind about the whole thing.

131

Well it seems like they've each done a lot of things that the other one hasn't done. Not exactly proving the point that they're alike.

You don't know anything about me, what is this 'whole thing' I'm being blind about. I said further up I agreed that Hamilton deserved a penalty.

132

is that supposed to be a compliment or what? if I remember correctly Schumi is a 7 times world champion!

I hope Lewis follow his steps then...

133

both. They are both top drivers taking advantage of anything that comes their way. But schumi did some things that hamilton hasn't done yet, and i think never will, because the fia wouldn't allow. But yes they are alike, because their mental process is the same.

Alonso should have followed him and pass the sc as well, and pay the penalty, but that's easy to say now.

134
ashley edwards

I felt that race was better than last years. It wasn't great but it wasn't crap. If the 9 drivers do get a penalty do they get a grid drop for the next race or 25 sec time penalty?

135

Infact the safety car was deployed infront of Hamilton along with Alonso and Massa with a less than 1 second between the three, Alonso and Massa respected the saftey car and stayed behind but Hamilton decided to break it and passed the SC and by the end of the day, he was rewarded for that with 18 points and a hilarious penalty compared to loss he would have if he respected the rules (Look where Alonso and Massa ended the race) .....it was just unfair!!!

136

I think today's situation with the safety car and penalties was an abject failure of the system. Ferrari played it correct and were the only ones to suffer.

Anyway, moreover this season is exciting me less than seemingly most fans. In EVERY race now, after the pitstop it's just follow the leader until the flag unless you're an odd-duck on strategy.

137

i believe the outcome of Hamiltons penalty was fair. it was a margional mistake on his part - less than a carlength - and he shouldnt have to suffer for that.

138

I cannot believe how anyone can say (including coulthard and brundle) how webbers crash was anyone fault but his own.

As David kept stressing the redbull was so much faster "4 seconds a lap" that there was no need for Mark to be running so close to Heikki towrd the breaking zone. If the Lotus is 4 seconds a lap slower because it doesnt have the huge performance of the red bull then it will need to break earlier. If webber had not been so "greedily slipstreaming" as Eddie jordan so beautifully put it and even jinking to the left to follow Heikki as he moved back toward the braking zone (leaving tones of room on the right for mark to brake 80m later) he would not have to react so quickly. Webber left no margin and ended up crashing them both out of the race. And it was a race for position so matter what the speed difference Lotus have no need to jump out of anyones way especially as, as David & even Mark kept said he would have been through in the next 15 seconds.

No need to be so close. Did make learn nothing from his run in with Vettel in Turkey.

I still cant beleive Coulthard and mark pointing finger at heikki saying he was moving all over the place. He was in front and it was Webbers jink in behind Heikki that caused the crash when the lotus breaked at his useual breaking point.

Alonso! Whats his problem? If Hamilton had not lifted so much when he saw the safety car he'd have cruised by before the line and Alonso would still have ended up in 9th!

139

True about Alonso, he was about 15m back and couldnt have passed the SC in time anyway. Funny though because his original complaint was that he was held up by Hamilton going too slow and that's why he couldn't pass the SC. Alonso needs serious help to get over 2007, it's like a cancer in him and he is starting to sound like a bitter old fart living in the past.

140

After watching it over and over I think it was just a (rather spectacular) racing incident. Kovy was moving around a lot but not exactly weaving. Mark then reacted and didn't know which side to go.

It's like when you're walking towards someone in the street and you both try to let each other through but keep stepping in the same direction blocking each other!

Certainly I agree with EJ that the (rather patronisingly termed) 'B' teams should not let anyone they're racing through.

141

+1 to all of this - both seemed to be confused as to which side the other wanted to be on. I think some people need to keep in mind that the most important thing is that both are OK.

142

Agree - a racing incident.

143
Jeff Doununder

Another great race, but the FIA still can't get the safety car rules right. It is still a complete lottery who benefits and who's race is ruined. Plus how can the fans tell what the delta time is?

Surely a NASCAR/Indycar situation would work better, where the safety car comes out and bunches everyone up for a lap, then those who choose to can pit, leaving those who don't with dominant track position. Effective (in creating a safe racetrack and nullifying the competitive advantage) and much more simple!

144
Jeff Doununder

Good point Jeff! Not much has been said about the clear advantage Vettel received by being ahead of the safety car, which one could argue won him the race.

In regards to the bunching up/teammate disadvantage, one could argue that it forces teams to split their strategy, where the 2nd driver could use better track position to their advantage (a la Kobayashi). Personally I never saw anything wrong with the 2nd driver slowing down to create a 25-30 sec gap between themselves and their teammate, thus ensuring they did not lose track position.

145

The biggest catch with the 'bunch them up first' concept, is that the driver in each team who is lower down the order at that point ends up having to queue up behind his teammate in the pits, and if you bunch them up first, that maximises the penalty applied to the second driver.

It seems to me that a more fundamental question in the last race is this. If the safety car is supposed to pick up the race leader, then why did the car come out when the leader was long gone and block others instead?

146
malcolm.strachan

100% agreed. Notice how you never hear whining and complaining about safety car rules in NASCAR or IndyCar? They have a solid system, and it would be great to implement in F1.

I still think, even in the refueling era, that the pits should have been closed; if you are that close to the limit that you need to pit that lap, then tough for you and maybe you should have factored that possibility into your strategy and pitted a lap earlier.

147

Then Alonso/Ferrari would complain that it removes the gap that they work so hard to get, theres no pleasing those people.

148

This is incredible. Driver now know it is better to brake rules. SHAME to Charlie Whiting. HE SHOULD GO TO NEVER COME BACK

149

As a Schumacher fan I was very angry at Mercedes decision to pull Schumacher in after the safety car. He started on hard tyres for a reason and that was so that he could run a long first stint, so why bring him in after 12 laps. If they kept him out like Sauber did with Kobayashi, then Schumacher would have been at least 6th instead of 16th. Shocking decision by Mercedes but all the media will remember is that he was 16th.

It is very ironic how Schumacher was known to always have luck fall in his favour, but it now looks like it has all run out as he's been very unlucky lately.

150

According to Ross Brawn, they believed the soft tyres can last till the end of the race that's why they pitted him. But they were surprised the light on the pit lane exit was red even though it wasn't supposed to be.

151

I think it is enough. For me F1 is over until the right spirit of fairplay will comeback. No more warns to Hamilton, no more concessions, no more privileges denied to other drivers since Tony Scott Andrews alogside Whiting. It is too much. There is not argument capable to justify a bad example for the youth: Do the bad thing and do not respect the rules, you will be prized, especially if you have a name defended inconditionally by the english press. I forecast three months before Hamilton arrived to McLaren the problems with Alonso and you can read it in spanish. Every thing it is too clear and very sad for the real competition. No tv brodcast, no 100 replays as usually does when the break is commited by "other". Until Alonso coment by radio the break in the rule, no action: nothing! Astonishing justice! Enjoy your F1: really it is for you.

152

Slightly over dramatic there.

1) I don't think you can solely blame Hamilton for the situation at McLaren in 07... or do you?

2) Hamilton didn't get a warning, he got a penalty.

3) How do you know whether they would have investigated if Alonso hadn't said anything? Did he also complain about the other 9 driver's deltas not being correct?

4) re. the replays, this is down to the TV director surely? Probably Spanish considering it was in Spain. It wasn't that they weren't interested in showing replays, it was that they were more interested in showing women in boats and pools.

153

It was obvious from the moment the Ferraris came into the pits much later than LH that something weird was on.

As far as I know the broadcasting in Spain is done by the FOM team, most probably English.

154

Sergio came down no one is out there to get Alonso, although I didn't really get what you trying to imply here, however I guess you're saying Lewis is getting a preferential treatment, and if that's the case, then I'll say your memories are failing you because you seem to have forgotten what happened to Lewis in 2008 in terms of penalties that is, but I guess as an Alonso fan for you the penalties were fair.

If I were you, I will be concerned about Alonso getting caught napping at the end of pretty much every race, Monaco, Turkey, and now Valencia.

155

Maybe ElFred's past his sell-by date.

156

I think Sergio's point is that the investigation on Hamilton's infraction only came when Alonso complained to his team over the radio. I think it's a very good point. What where the stewards doing until then?

157

Your statement suggests that stewards are capable of watching every inch of the race track like hawks and this is impossible. The offense was less than a car length and unless scrutenized, it would have been impossible to tell from the track side. The offense so angrily reported was NOT even what Hamilton was punished for anyway.

158
Jean-Christophe

May be just making sure that what made the safety car come out in the first place was cleared and the track was safe to race which is their main focus while the SC is still out.

159

lol - Get over it. Alonso won a race that was fixed from the start and still has the nerve to count it among his wins. Controversial things happen, this is motor racing.

160

Sergio - Lewis served a drive through penalty, 9 other drivers were given time penalties which lifted Alonso one position up - what else could have been done?

161

Just giving a fast response to Lewis infraction. As simple as that. Before the SC he was 10 meters before Alonso. After the SC and breaking the safety rules, he was 7 positions ahead. That's it.

162

What a farce. People who obey the rules get burned again by F1 incompetence. A real shamefull race.

163

China, 2010; Alonso jumps the start; he gets a drive through penalty on lap 5. Valencia, 2010; Hamilton overtakes the safety car on lap 9; he gets a drive through penalty on lap 20!!! It is good to get this kind of penalties, isn't it? How many positions lost Alonso in China because of the penalty? 14!! And Hamilton in Valencia? None!!

164

Currency of penalty is time, not positions. Comparing how many positions a driver has lost as a result of a penalty is irrelevant

165

OK, that's your opinion. Mine is that drivers are racing for positions, not for time, so the relevant point is how many positions the penalty means - if not, it could be worthy not to respect the rules and creating dangerous situations, like Lewis did today.

166

Valencia, 2008; Massa unsafe release into pit lane on lap 37, gets a $10,000 fine after the race. These things happen, its just this time it's for a team you don't follow.

167

Sorry, I mean Hamilton got his penalty on lap 27.

168

I think it would help Alonso if he concentrated on his race rather than crying about Lewis - he was so distracted he allowed Kobayashi to overtake him! If he had stayed ahead of the Japanese and overtaken Buemi, he would have been P6 and much closer to Lewis

169

Kobayashi had a fresh set of soft tyres against Alonso's worn hard tyres.

170

Alonso was disgraceful today and summed up the modern Ferrari attitude of relying on the stewards than getting on with it.

They can bring out all the regulations they like but Domenicali basically told Alonso not to race and wait for the stewards today.

171

I have no hatred for Hamilton and no love for Alonso... You want to compare outbursts over the radio between the two this season? Don't take out England's annihilation in football on Alonso. Alonso was basically told to calm down, get the incident out of your and don't be stupid... he did NOT tell him not to race, he was told to let the stewards to do their job and their response was typically late... and weak...

172

It did sound to me like a message saying there was no need to race the cars under investigation in front (although I don't have anything against this).

173

I agree with Fernando Alonso, the race it is been manipulated by Charlie Whiting taking the Hamilton drive though penalty so late 'on purpose'.

174

Why would they do that?

175

James, you have talked about it: "... thanks to the train behind Kobayashi. Because it took the stewards quite a while to decide the penalty, this allowed a big enough gap to open up to Kobayashi for Hamilton to get a penalty-free penalty." Did they actually need almost 30' to make the decission?

176

CH1UNDA

"...all in his team were punished except himself..."

I was under the impression that Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds were the only Renault employees who were punished.

Can you enlighten me?

177

James you're quite right here. Thank you. I got a lot of negativity after the same remark a couple of races ago on a different website. In my opinion the SC incident was not taken into consideration at all by the stewards until they were pointed to it by Ferrari. I think they were overwhelmed by what all happened and were looking at all the standard info ie the times of all the drivers. When they got around to investigate it it was already too late. It was in fact sloppy stewarding. Can you verify what really happened at race control? ie time line?

178
michael grievson

But I think the poster was suggesting the delay was deliberate to affect the outcome of the race

179

I don't think it was deliberate manipulation of the result (at least I hope not) just incompetence in not dishing out the penalty sooner.

I think the stewarding has been as bad as ever this season yet this seems to be forgotten amid everyone thinking how wonderful it is former drivers are involved.

180

why would the FIA favour Hamilton? What a load of nonsense, especially in light of all the penalties they handed out in 2008 to him.

Plenty of drivers have served penalties and suffered no position drops (Webber and Rosberg off the top of my head in recent years).

When it happened to them we all applauded them for making up a big enough gap but when it's Hamilton suddenly all the knives are out!

The double-standards are in how some fans perceive these penalties not in how they're distributed.

181

Is this the same Alonso that won a manipulated Singapore 2008 and all in his team were punished except himself?

182

Re the Hamilton/safety car incident, it seemed to me that when the safety car came out it briefly crossed the merge line on pit exit that the racing cars aren't allowed to cross. It seemed to be at this point that Hamilton slowed up, perhaps confused as to whether the safety car was going to continue coming across the track.

The safety car then seemed to pull back into the pit exit lane and soon after Lewis pulled forward again.

Obviously Alonso is annoyed, and legitimately so as it compromised him, but I don't think Lewis was trying to compromise Alonso, he was simply briefly confused by slightly erratic safety car driving.

183

Very good point.

The video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vI5IWkg9Q&feature=related is enlightening. At the start of the video, Hamilton is taking the short line around the corner passing the two cars exiting the pits.

The forward car moves towards the pit exit demarcation line, and you can see Lewis brakes and moves to the outer edge of the racetrack to give the car the maximum amount of room. Evidently, as it becomes obvious that the safety car is not going to cut across the track, he then decides to go forward and pass before the 'do not pass' line, which is still ahead of him at this point.

He doesn't make it in time, and therefore gets a justifiable (though delayed enough to make it ineffectual) penalty. It appears that Alonso thinks he slowed down deliberately to gain a competitive advantage, but it looks more likely that he acted to avoid potentially punting a safety car, then accelerated again once the danger had passed.

Poor safety car management, slightly erratic driving of the safety car, slack stewarding, a minor lapse in judgment by Lewis, and ElFred's (and Luca's) toys fly out of the pram once more 🙂

Time penalties are always going to have a variable impact. If they're applied on lap 1, the impact can be a drop from first to last. If they're applied late in the race, it may not even cause a single loss of position. That's racing.

Lewis has been on the receiving end of some very unfair stewarding decisions in the past. This one went in his favour. Score one for Karma, particularly given the team and driver it hurt the most.

184

James, i am looking forward to your technical analysis of the Red Bull underbody following Webber's crash. Your piece on Ferrari's was very informative. Hope there was still enough pieces left of the blown diffuser. But important to say it was great to see Webber alright after that very frightfull crash.

So Alonso is still obsessed with Lewis - his comments about the race being manipulated were very amusing considering the Singapore 2008 race he won! It was surprising how Alonso was so consumed with Lewis being punished until his team had to ask him to focus on his own race - terrible whining on the part of a 2 time WDC.

Can somebody clarify whether if found guilty a time penality would be mandatory for the 9 cars under investigation? Or is there an option for lose of grid slots at the British GP? Hope if there is an option the stewards go for lose of grid slots.

Good to know Lewis was not racing Vettel for the win but rather driving the mature race to bring the car home. He surely has learnt alot since his first season back in 2007. It was also refreshing hearing him call to save fuel once he determined he had nailed the second postion and was out of Kobayashi's threat.

So neither Alonso nor Button could not overtake blaming Valencia for their processional races only for the Japanese warrior to pass two cars in the last lap! Kobayashi definitely driver of the day - wonderfull racing, almost Lewis-que overtaking if not on this occasion even more exciting considering he took Buemi virtually on the last corner!

185

Not that big a deal. Hamilton was to finish second.

186

Totally unfair to Alonso and Massa what happened with the safety care and Hamilton. A bit of a farce that penalty after 20 laps.

187

I seem to get the feeling that the issue here is about Alonso beating Hamilton. How about winning the race? Why is it only unfair to Alonso and Massa? Did Hamilton beat only those two or the rest of the field? Why is there such bitterness about Hamilton beating Alonso soundly?

188

life isn't fair. During the dominant years, ferrari most of the time got the best part of the deal, now they are getting the worst and they whine. Sorry but we are not buying it. We still remember the schumi years, and you are just suffering the same pain that you inflicted.

189

What does Hamilton have to do with it?

They were always going to end up where they did because of how Ferrari played the strategy. It's not that Lewis deliberately bottled them up behind the SC and then made a sprint for it, how could he have possibly known that the SC was going to emerge from pit-lane at that precise moment?!

I know Lewis is brilliant but he's not omniscient. 😉

190

Lewis also seems a nice chap with excellent taste, i. e. not exactly a mysoginist.

191

In my humble opinion, this is a race to erase from a Formula1 championship... boring track, hyper strange race, and bored people launching bottles inside the track are not so good for this sport.

Is almost incredible how an exit of a safety-car can change a race.

Formula1 must return to Montjuich...

192

Whoever threw that bottle on the track should be thrown in jail.

Reckless endangerment of the driver's lives. Totally irresponsible.

193

I agree, the track is shocking to say the least. Extremely unattractive and not conducive to much risk taking. Can 1 overtake, yes but not easily which is what we want. The track must not be a hinderance to overtaking at all, but must encourage it. As spectators we would like to see that.

194

lotus hk acting as a ramp for webbers flyby

Should have got out of the way

195

Maybe Red Bull REALLY does give you wings....!

196

James or anybody outthere explain to me how the guys and teams that stuck to the rules got totally screwed by the silver team. I'm not saying lewis deliberately cheated but how can it be that if you stick to the rules your punished more. No doubt about it the penalty did not fit the crime considering it's gained him so much time. I'm not a bitter Ferrari nut but till someone watching our sport for the first time today how could you explain that. Surely the next time you should just overtake the safety car if it gains you so much.

197

Some comments seem to imply that it is somehow hamiltons fault that Alonso finished where he did. If Hamilton did not pass the sc do you think alonso's finish place would have been different?

Maybe next Alonso can start a conspiracy theory that Hamilton has a special button on his steering wheel to trigger a sc. It would then all make sense!

198

if hamilton had of done what alonso done he would have finished behind alonso. hamilton had to change front wing in pitstops so would probably not scored a point today if he done the correct thing.if alonso done what hamilton done he would have finished second. maybe the british bias can be done away with on here and people can see that it actualy was advantageous to cheat today.

199

It looked to me very much like a 'technical' infringement by Lewis - ie if he had not momentarily lifted he would have been ahead of the Safety Car line and that would be that. As it was either (I suspect) a moment of indecision, or a reaction to the possibility of the SC crossing into his path, my view is that it was barely due a penalty at all.

200

May I remind you that under yellow flags and safety car conditions that lewis shouldn't be flat. The simple facts are lewis overtook the safety car or after the line. He then had an enormous advantage as alonso had to sit behind for the whole lap. It cost alonso a second place today. Lewis hamilton got away with murder today.

201

No, it cost him a third place. It's unlikely he would have been able to get past Lewis even if he'd been faster.

202

Both Ferraris should have sped past the safety car and accepted a drive through. Would have been better off to breach the rules then follow them! IT takes the stewards over 25minutes to decide on a penalty and by that time it was a pointless penalty.

203

Real problem here is that safety car is deployed for, you know, safety reasons.

From now on, it seems the winning strategy is to overtake the SC and run like hell. Most you will get is a DT that you may be able to overcome if it takes them 20 laps to decide the penalty.

Result would be a risk increase on the track.

The only way that the SC would work in total fairness would be if "after the risks are gone", drivers are allowed to return to the position they were before the SC entered the track. It would mean 1-2 laps more but IMHO, SC is out 1-2 laps more than needed already.

204

How come it took so much time for the stewards to penalise Hamilton? It almost felt like they were waiting for Hamilton to pull big enough gap to Kobayashi, not to lose a position. I hope that's not the case but there's been too many times already this season when Hamilton has broke the rules and got away with it. Makes you think there's something more than just luck on his side.

205
Chris Anderson

Heads need to roll at Mercedes If it was not Schumacher’s choice to come in when running 3rd

They keep destroying his races as a fan its getting frustrating. Schumacher must be furious.

206

he is having all the bad luck he never did when he was at ferrari. What goes around comes around.

207

A Valencia GP that wasn't boring!! Hard luck on Alonso, I don't think people should be blaming Hamilton though. Even if he hadn't passed the SC they would have been 8 and 9. It's the SC rules at fault, why should Vettel be handed the race just because Hamilton and Alonso got caught behind the SC?

208

I really don't understand why are all those drivers "under investigation". FIA know they didn't obey the time delta, so give them appropriate penalty right away. This is just stupid. More arbitrary ruling for the clear cut rules. That's what brings those moves like Hamilton did today on safety car. You know "let's see if I can get away with it".

Someone breaks the rule, give him penalty right away and get on with racing.

Today's race is totally messed up. Made it pretty much pointless for watching.

209

The point is he did not get away with it - he was penalised. Alonso should be delighted his whining got his nemesis some much needed punishment.

210

Hence the term 'alonsonia', the haunting fear (found in ElFred and deluded alonsisti) that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

211

I hope, at the regrettable expense of Webber, that all this deformed wing/KERS business is binned as a result of that incident.

There was a moment in that incident when I really thought Webber was seriously injured - he threw his steering wheel out and seemed to rest his head back as Mansell did when he crashed heavily at Japan '87, like he knew he was out for the season. Glad to see him out, shaken but not stirred.

212

Yeah this movable wing that can be adjusted when within 1 second of the car in front is shocking, you have to wonder at logic of this. Ban the F-duct coz it costs money to develop, but impliment KERS and a movable rear wing which i) COST ALOT MORE to develop; ii) are incomparably less safe than a simple F-duct; iii) and iv) will make the car atleast 50kg heavier thus increasing the average fuel consumption of F1 per annum - as such WE as FOTA in conjunction with our trusty brainless FIA are i) saving costs; ii) increasing over-all driver and spectator safety and iii) making Formula 1 a greener sport. Go figure!!

213

Staggering that a car can flip and land upside down at 190mph then crash at probably 130+mph and the driver can walk away - and then be interviewed afterwards, seemingly calm and unshocked.

Who cares about the result? The biggest result is that Mark Webber (and Heiki) is still in one piece.

Steve

214

Amen to that.

I mean, I wanted Vettel to win this race, so it's not as though I don't care about the result at *all* - but my relief at Webber (and Kovalainen) being okay has outweighed pretty much everything else.

215

I can't believe all of the comments on the TV commentary against Kovalienen on BBC - at the last part of the incident just before the crash, the Lotus went left and Webber did too - if the problem was the Lotus, why didn't Webber just go right, or at the least stay straight?

I saw it as Webber misjudging the Lotus' braking distance, and as such therefore Webber carries almost all of the blame - it cannot be right for faster cars to plow into the backs of slower ones just because they don't know their braking points (they should learn them first!), especially when they actively steer to be directly behind the slower car in front when it brakes!!!

Or, as Webber was so much faster, why didn't he just try to overtake somewhere else less risky!

But, even if Coulthard on BBC again showed his Red Bull bias, at least it has brought to a head one area of stupidity with the newly proposed rules for next year 😉

216

Well, we've gone from the most exciting dry race of the season at Montreal to, in my opinion, the most boring (after the first 10 laps) at a track that for TV viewers has to be very disappointing. Even during quali yesterday I believe Martin Brundle said of the 25 corners that the drivers have difficulty knowing 'where they are' on the race track. How about the television audience?

It seems to me that the released 2011 rules allowing drivers to manipulate body work according to a computer controlled and enabled system so they can pass is turning the driver into a computer gamer instead of a driver.

Why not install cruise control, blind-spot sensors, anti-collision sensors, etc. into a driver-look-a-like black box and let the talented drivers get on with a more fitting occupation.

Also, bring back testing for new/young teams so that they can get up to speed before endangering other drivers on race day because of vast speed differentials. Charging them huge amounts of money for the privilege of racing in F1 then taking away their paid-for right because of the 107% rule removes any incentive for investors in these new teams.

Sorry, I just had to rant.

Brian

217

Oh I know the Ferrari/Alonso fans are going to go on and on and on about the injustice of it all but I think there needs to be some realization that just like the woeful England football team, you just weren't good enough. I counted 3 teams faster than the red cars in race trim.

218

You call this controversial? How about that goal for England that never was? How disgusting!

The sooner FiFa allows for TV incident reviews the better, until then the game of football will be reduced to a joke every other match, or every single match as is the case with this World Cup.

Never mind, back to F1 I am happy for Hamilton's second plays mainly because this boy makes his own luck, and he is lucky, isn't he just?

Hang on a sec, didn't Germany produce their luck as well?

219

Yeah there is a logic to that actually, in anything you have to go out and make your own luck sometimes. I think to sit around waiting for luck to happen is not going to work too often so like Lewis, you take your chances and do what you think is right. If you incurr a penalty so be it, but do what you have to to put you in the best possible position to succeed.

220

Just notice the how I spelled the word 'place'

I must have been really furious.

221

sorry for alonso. He was whining alot. haha

222

What are Alonso & Ferarri moaning about ? I am I right in thinking that if Hamilton had been a metre or so further up the road at the safety car line, he would have been ahead of the safety car without penalty and Alonso would have been ligitimately behind it as he was?

For a double world champion, he should grow up and let his racing do the talking. . .

223

correct. He hesitated and that cost him the penalty. He made a mistake and got the drive through. As simple as that. ferrari think he should have paid more for it. So talk to the fia to rethink the rule. End of story.

224

hear! hear!

225
Armchair Observer

A quick question James. If Kobayashi had pitted in the last lap, he would be in front of the finish line when getting the soft tires on....and cross the finish line in the pits with the new tires. Similar to Schumacher Silverstone. Is that allowed? He would have been at least 5th then, maybe even 4th.

226

since silverstone they re wrote the rule. You can't finish the race on the pits. The same that's going to happen with this one i assume.

227

Hamilton and rules?? no no. What a cheat he is!

228

hamilton broke the rules and got a penalty which he served. How is this cheating? Is Alonso also a cheat for his race win in 2008 and holding up Hamilton behind him in the pit lane in 2007? I bet you enjoyed that one and cheered wildly didn't you?

229

5 seconds penalty for all drivers under investigation over SC rule breach - apart from Glock who gets 20 seconds - how many places does Alonso gain as a result?

230

Hmmm! I don't get it, where in the rules did the 5 seconds come from?

231

Very strange considering the penalty that Schumacher received at Monaco!

232

1 place from 9th to 8th - that is adding injury to insult for the Spaniard - i am sure he and Ferrari will have a few saucy comments to make about that!

233

Firstly, really glad that Mark Webber is okay. Not so long ago that could have been fatal.

Meanwhile: ooh, there's a hornet's nest - Alonso complaining about Hamilton.

James - the stewards seem to have treated what Hamilton did as a similar level to speeding in the pit-lane (though ironically Hamilton's problem was going too slow here). Do you think that's fair? Doesn't seem to be a matter of safety or attempting to gain an advantage really - though I think he needs to read the rule book a bit more.

PS If I remember correctly, we had a similar end result, where a drive-through penalty was given late after a complicated safety car scenario and didn't end up costing the driver much - Rosberg and Kubica at Singapore 2008 (though they got stop and go penalties).

234

I am very confused with this race...

the order changed so much after SC...

I am glad for webber that he is ok

someone please tell the CLOWNS to not fight with faster cars.. do they want to wait till someone gets KILLED???

phew that was very scary.. Kova couldn't decide which way he wanted to move...

Also glock handed over 20 sec penalty? what difference does it make anyways when these teams are upto 4 laps down ????

Bottom line.... FIA is a joke... the race results were definitely effected by FIA

BIG THUMBS DOWN FOR FIA!!!!!!

In my books, F1's sports credibility went down.. i will think hard if i really want to be following such a sport

good bye!!!!

235

I've not been a fan of the FIA (in the past) but you have to say that the strength of the Red Bull car saved Webbers life today - thumbs UP to the FIA for that one that one I say!

236

Whiting and Hamilton "picked up" money and time to F1 fans (again).

What a joke!! I don't want to be in the skin of a spanish familiy father that come to Valencia from Madrid, Seville or Barcelona, and spent maybe 1500 euros or more to pay tickets and stay in the city for to see this new chapter of "Hamilton rules".

At least I see all in tv and I've not spent this kind of money, but after years and years to give Formula 1 my love and my time, I'm seriously considering to stop watching races, specially cause what we've seen today is a procession of cars looking for a result previously manipulated by the lack of efficiency of 20 stewards sited in a refrigerated room with 120 tv monitors. What the hell are they doing for to realise so late that something happened between Hamilton and Alonso?

F1 s**ks!!

237

another f1 fan that's upset. Do, like me, and travel to moto gp races. They are not gaining me back as a fan. I cheated on them, because they didn't take care of my wants and needs. Like a woman would say.

238

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!

239

Lucky Hamilton. The penalty the stewards imposed was amazingly lenient and did nothing whatsoever to cancel out the huge advantage he gained by overtaking the SC.

240

A very eventful race. I don't know where to start from; so much to talk about.

241

Now I'm hearing about 5 second penalties being applied to the SC speeders! Where in the regulations does it mention 5 second time penalties? I'll bet MSC would have been happier if they had pulled one of these out in Monaco for him rather than the 25 second penalty.

Seriously, I though the only options were a 20 second penalty, a 30 second penalty or a grid drop at the next race?

James, can you elaborate?

242

If you read the three or four analysis that James made to the penalty Schumacher received at Monaco, you will fine there's nothing preventing the stewarts to give arbitrary times penalties.

It has to do with something along the lines that The Sporting Code used in F1 is just a special case of a more general The Code, in which penalties available to the stewarts are more flexible.

243

he can't. It's imposible to elaborate on the fia way of ruling. They are the worst enemies of the sport.

244

Shame: shame on Whiting, only thinking of how to benefit Hamilton (it is amazing how he is faster that the electronic devices to see Alonso jump-starting and takes 20 laps to see Hamilton overtaking the SC). Shame on the FIA with the absurd rules that steal the show from the fans (why don't they hire someone with some common sense to make the rules?). Shame, shame, shame! I feel robbed, and I feel that the rule-breakers are the only ones who take profit at last. This is not sport, if F1 keeps going this way, I'll quit.

245

Wonder if anyone managed to get a good snap of the underside of Webber's car?

246

What a "lucky" driver is Hamilton! When he seemed to hesitate when in parallel with the safety car, maybe he was thinking in letting Alonso stuck with the SC, which in the end he did. And walked by without penalty! Such a "lucky" boy!

247

What is a post-race 5 second penalty?

Is there another part of the regs to cover this - because looks like it should be 20 or 30 - which would have had a much bigger effect.

"16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:

a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;

b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.

c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver's next Event.

However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b)."

248

I bet Webber feels like he won the race after walking out of that one and it was nice to hear the top 3 show concern.

It'd be nice to see Alonso and company quit the whinging and quietly focus their energy on beating the competition

249

This really frustrates me that the safety car issue is still an issue. It should be easy with all this technology in F1 to say to the drivers and teams, the moment a safety period is called, all cars have to conform to a controlled pace immediately after the next braking zone, no matter where they are on the track. This controlled pace is then maintained until the safety period is over. This is the fairest solution, and we all care about fair race results don't we!

250

I'd like to comment the Stewards. They did an excellent job, despite having to rule on the most incidents I can recall for any one race.

The punishments, if any, fitted the crime and were metted out fairly. While Ferrari and Alonso are moaning about some stupid conspiracy or manipulation, they should be reminded of 1)Singapore and 2)last week's filming, i.e. test session, respectively.

Ferrari have benefitted from so many rulings and circumstances in their favour that they should be the last to bitch when circumstances just don't go their way. Too damn bad.

251

I prefer to see just rulings that are fair with respect to the situation, without having to take history into account.

252

History didn't have anything to do with the rulings. Hamilton made a mistake, he got punished, but, as it turns out it didn't affect the outcome. The rules were applied fairly. Don't blame Hamilton, or the stewards for that matter, blame the rules.

254

Wow! what a race it has been, first canada, now this one.. and i have high hopes for the brand new silverstone as well.

i watched webber's red bull flying over kovie's lotus with eyes wide open and it was really shocking to see him walk right away. we all know how far F1 has developed over the years but i guess, today, the audience, like me, saw that for themselves. that was truly amazing.

another amazing thing is that kobayashi passed the home boy alonso in the end. maybe alonso should have concentrated on his own race, instead of trying to ruin hamilton's and complaining when lewis did not miss his position in the race. this reminded me of button passing alonso in canada.. something still doesn't work for alonso in the rosso corsa, it seems..

and mentioning kobayashi's result, as a hopeless fan of schumacher (hopeless for this season at least), that made me think, what if schumi, too, had not made those fatal pit stops? although those two fastest laps and reducing the 20s gap between jaime and himself down to 0.5s in 10 or so laps were rewarding, i wonder when driver#3 would give us, his fans, a true rest with a podium..

related with that, i wonder how the results of the investigation of the 9 drivers deliver for the rest of the pack.

anyway, congrats to seb on his "mature" and clean racing this week. he would give himself a break after the last few races and i hope he really is "back on track".

and on a more unrelated note, christian horner was wrong when saying "germany's best result of the day" 🙂

255

Now I am understand the english strategy naming whiners to the "enemy" contenders. This privilege is just for Lewis Hamilton in, for example, Montecarlo 2007 in a press conference (nº2 driver remember?). No way. It is an english formula with english bosses with english press with english located teams (majority of them) and the special way to handle a championship. You are good saying words like "Team" or "moaning always at your convenience. Tha facts are clear, no moaning, just watch the tv and see haw is the golden star of the every GP: waving, dangering in boxes twice, one more lap in quali without fuel, overtaking SC. A shame for the real contenders and honorable people. Please defend Hamilton's actions and Whiting way to aply the rules, don't desapoint me and be the EMPIRE.

At least in football no chance to break the rules and obtain a prize.

256

"At least in football no chance to break the rules and obtain a prize."

I believe that, 2 matches into this world cup, there would be an entire nation of people on the western end of 'the pond' who would disagree with you. Thankfully the USA still got through to the group of 16 despite the best (worst) efforts of the referees to prevent it.

You could also point to the Ivory Coast player's blatant play-acting to get Kaka sent off as another example of the huge opportunities for unfairness built in to 'the beautiful game'. But this is a thread about F1, so I'll stop the digression.

If it is such an 'English' formula, how come the chief of the FIA is a French, ex-Ferrari man? You'd also need to explain decisions such as Lewis having the win stripped from him at Spa in 2008, Alonso getting away scot-free from both Spy-Gate and Sing-gate, not to mention most of the Schumacher years where almost every decision seemed to go in his favour.

Lewis slowed when he thought that the safety car was going to cut across the track, then got on the gas again, but had then blown his momentum to cross the safety car line before the safety car (just). Alonso thought Lewis did it to mess up Alonso's race, hence he spat his dummy out. The stewards should have been on it faster, and the safety car driver should have been driving a bit less erratically coming out of the pits.

Did Lewis create a technical infringement deserving a penalty? Yes.

Did he deliberately cheat? No.

257

I'm getting a little sick of people implying or as it appears in your case outright saying that Formula 1 is 'rigged by the English'.

How exactly does this work? When did it start? I seem to remember this being an international series since forever. A series which has had a whole host of different drivers of different nationalities win it.

But no, because Alonso gets unlucky it's all the fault of the English.

Got to wonder when this decision was made to rig things against him. At what point after Alonso won his 2 WDCs was the decision made to rig things against him?

I blame the press for geeing up nationalism. And it's getting kind of ugly.

258

There has always been this undercurrent with F1. The non Anglo Saxons in the sport and following it looked at Max, Bernie, Frank, Ron etc and took the view that the Anglo Saxon element dominates what happens in the sport

259

Seems like Bernie/Max favoured Ferrari more than any team, with the skewed revenue distribution and the several times they got away with cheating themselves [Malaysia 99 really solidified Ferrari's image in my mind, to be honest]. I don't understand the reasons for this undercurrent that you talk about.

260

Is it the fault of the English that their country is the preferred venue for running an F1 team?

I do agree about the inconsistency. I remember the big moan that Button had in Suzuka last year because of Nico Rosberg gaining an advantage during the safety car period, and the sympathetic hearing that he was given.

261

Frankly, your whining is as bad as Alonso's was in his 'finest' moments today.

He wasn't fast enough to challenge, he drove badly, and just cried about it and won himself absolutely NO followers with his performance.

The reasons it took so long to adjudicate a decision on Hamilton? Easy. A penalty like jumping the start is cut and dried, but almost any other penalty has cases for human judgment to be applied, this is why they brought a driver onto the stewards committee staff. In Hamilton's case, they would likely have looked at telemetry to determine speed and acceleration/deceleration of the car, and also reviewed how far ahead the safety car was when Hamilton passed it.

There's no question Hamilton broke the rules (and he knows it, I'm sure), but to accuse him of doing it deliberately or with intent to attack Alonso purposely, or to suggest that race control were in collusion with him is just absurd hyperbole fueled by Alonso's manic ranting.

He (Hamilton) got penalised as was fair for what he did with all circumstances considered. The fact that he was so much faster than the cars directly behind him and able to pull out that lead are simply to his credit, and nothing else.

Penalties that cost the driver nothing aren't a new thing in F1, so let's not get carried away with declaring Hamilton and Whiting as in cahoots over something ridiculous like this, eh?

262

Alonso saying “I think it was unreal this result, and unfair as well,” is a bit rich coming from the winner of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix....

Great drive from Lewis, always controversial, always brilliant.

My driver of the day - Kobayashi.

263

The difference there is that Alonso knew nothing about the arranged crash and the truth only came out weeks or months after the race by which time the result was official and couldn't be changed.

F1 results are provisional for a certain amount of time after the race to allow any issues to come to light and be investigated but I think the limit is 6 hours or so, not 6 months!

264

Craig: Crashgate = Cui bono?

265

Just because Fernando benefited from crash gate doesn't automatically make him guilty of anything.

To me, his incredulous comments about the safety car openly and publicly to Flavio just before going to the podium highlights his surprise that the strategy worked.

266
Jean-Christophe

Right. But still manipulated and unfair. And when asked if he counted it as a win he still said "yes"

267

My point is that Alonso did nothing wrong either today or in Singapore 2008.

Hamilton did do something wrong, he overtook the safety car but due to the delay in issuing the drive-through penalty the punishment was neutralised.

Hamilton is far from "always brilliant". Remember him running into Kimi in the pitlane? Crashing in Monza on the last couple of laps? Beaching himself in the gravel in China?

268

Great point!!!!!!!!!

269

I think it's time Alonso grew up and stopped moaning about Lewis Hamilton. He is simply a sad individual with an axe to grind, but he should let the past go.

270

Mr James , please you have some input in this

can you please explain how can sefty car allow

Vetel,driving 'Red Bul' to continue and to some extend allowin Hamilton though penalised

leter,but stop Ferrari drivers who run 3rd and 4th,result a shables.

If Luca Di Montezemolo have any back bone he would pull his team out of the reminder of F1 calender and sue FIA of negligence to adminisrate its rules.

271

It was the timing of when the S car came out. Vettel had already gone through

272

Truly one have to say what we witnessed is not professional at all.

Sefty car should have let all through till Vetel come bihind the safty car again as he was the leader of the race.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

273

The much vaunted 'dream team' of Alonso and Ferrari is starting to look more like a nightmare to me. It looks as if rather than bringing out their strengths they are bolstering and bringing out each others' weaknesses, which are remarkably similar.

Both the driver and the team seem to suffer from a sense of entitelement and a tendency to blame everyone but themselves when things aren't going well. Alonso's obsession during the race with Hamilton and his punishment demonstrated a complete inability to put annoyance to one side in order to focus on the task in hand - which is one of the fundamental skills needed in any sport.

Unfortunately Ferrari and Alonso have both underperformed this year. The car has not been fast enough and the driver has made too many mistakes. Focus on blaming and putting down others rather than taking responsibility for their own failings is not the way back to the front.

274

Luca knew better yet he signed ElFred of all people.

275

Ferrari are making an awful fuss, but this was completely avoidable - why not have the Safety Car wait at the pitlane exit until the leader comes around instead of creating confusion as to whether it can be overtaken or not? If it trundles around waiting for the leader it takes even longer to find him.

I disagree with Ferrari that the race was a scandal, but it was poor that it took the stewards so long to decide on Hamilton's penalty, which was a simple enough thing to decide on - it was quite clear what had happened from the helicopter shot.

276

Is a 5 sec penalty sufficient for speeding during safety car conditions?

The penalty that Hamilton received for overtaking the safety car was far less than the time that he gained by doing so, hence the punishment for such actions needs to be reviewed in the future.

277

Absolutely correct! A stop and go penalty would have cost around 25 seconds so would have done nothing more than put Hamilton back where he should have been (ie. just ahead of Alonso or in fact due to the fact he needed a nose at his pitstop, just behind Alonso). The drive through only cost him about half the time he made by overtaking the safety car. It's like stealing £1000 and only getting fined £500 when you are caught!

I would have thought that overtaking the safety car would have been a very serious offence with possible DQ penalty.

278

It should be. It is a very dangerous action.

279

First it's the Petrov weave (subsequently outlawed), then it's the old low fuel trick (also subsequently outlawed), whats next, a safety car clarification. Wow he really breaks new ground in every race, at this rate he'll win for sure, especially with the addition of legitimate points, if he earns any.

280

outragious! Hamilton cheated and the stewards manipulated the race to allow him to finish 2nd! Should have been black flagged - Ferrari are right to be angry.! And how hard is it to drive round a Lotus on a wide track? Very according to Webber! Useless

281

Of course with your plethora of F1 experience I'm sure you would have nailed Heikki in the perfect passing manouver.

If you think that like about F1 and the stewards dont bother watching. If you want to see Ferrari win, what about a one make championship?

I like a lot of fans are getting sick of hearing Alonso come up with lots of excuses. Presumably the stewards also put dust on the track to allow Kamui to get past Fernando at the end?

282
Prof Bolshaviks

Well, we now have a situation where Ferrari are crying foul play, saying the race was manipulated. A bit rich from Alonso considering his win at the same track for Renault.

However, looking at the penalties and how they were applied, it can be advantageous to break a rule, get track position and then take a penalty later.

When teams are pushing so hard to gain small amounts, we could now see professional fouls coming into team strategy.

I'm not saying that teams should break rules deliberately, but if you get an advantage and don't suffer anything more than a reprimand or 5 seconds added to your time, drive throughs that do not inconvenience you anything like losing track position does, it would be foolish to not exploit the situation.

Simply put, would you rather spend 20 laps behind a slow car, or dive across a chicane and see if you can pull out the 15 seconds a drive through will cost you?

I understand the above example may not receive a drive through, but you see my point.

283

Exactly. The matter requires urgent review.

284

If you insinuate things please get the correct race.

285

I noticed Christian Horner said before the race that there had been no safety cars at this race for the last 2 years, so there was probably going to be one this year...

Did he know something? Singapore anyone?

Tongue firmly in cheek. Glad you're OK Mark

Ferrari were unlucky, but only Ferrari and Alonso would sulk so badly and whine so loudly. Surely anyone else would shrug, say "that's racing" and get on with it. Outrageous behaviour, and as much to do with their new exhaust which blows, but not in the way that they hoped.

They'll be back, but get a grip guys, it's not all about you.

286

Yes, it was a controversial race, displaying once again the lack of clarity of racing rules. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth seeing the inconsistency of the stewards' decisions, but think of horrific refereeing in World Cup in South Africa. It may be a kind of consolation to every F1 fun. Hamilton was once again very lucky, as was J. Button. Congratulations to both McLaren drivers though. What a bad luck for Fernando. I really feel sorry for him. I am very curious of in depth analysis of the race.

287

Who says Valencia is dull?

Conflicting stories coming out of Lotus: Kovy braked at his normal spot, which is some distance earlier than the front-line cars, or, alternatively, Webber missed his braking point. Perhaps I’m reading too much into this but I can’t help thinking that my first impression, that Kovy braked early, might be true.

Was he trying to slow Webber or put him off so that he’d mess up the corner? Whilst I’m not fully in agreement with DC as to Webber being a complete innocent I do think that discretion might have been the better option for Kovy.

As for the penalties, I’m with Ferrari with regards the length of time it took the stewards to come to a conclusion over Hamilton so I would suggest there should be a public explanation. The fact that LH was in error seemed clear enough so I would have thought that there could have been a disagreement over the penalty. But even so, 25 minutes?

The mass penalties seem reasonable. I can’t see their speed altering the result in any way so, as long as the offenders have a mark on their record, that seems enough.

Whilst the race wasn’t dull, it was far from exciting. Had Hamilton not been penalised we might have been sitting on the edges of our seat for the last dozen laps. As it was it sort of fizzled out, so a bit of a disappointment.

But I don’t think the spectators were as disappointed as Ferrari. I assume they would have had big hopes for their upgrade. But it too sort of fizzled out. They must be a bit nervous of McLaren’s promised major revisions for Silverstone. Perhaps that was what made Luca a bit tetchy. Or there might have been something else.

A scrappy race for most. Williams, despite a disappointing reliability issue for one car late on, must be well pleased. A bit like RBR I suppose. McLaren’s 2-3 was probably what they were hoping for at the start. But a disappointing result for Force India perhaps. I expected them to do better. Still, promises well for the next race.

Kobayashi’s tactics were superb. I thought he’d left it too late to go onto softs. I reckon he was twitching a bit though. Sauber with two top 10 finishes must be well chuffed.

An interesting race leaving us with lots to talk about.

288

if alonso took jump start 12 sec earlier then he won then won the race in china.

289

lol - it's worth a shot. Someone should try it.

290

Alonso is complaining about fixed results here he should not be so quick to claim this, him being the beneficiary gaining a win from cheating while at renault. What goes round surely comes round he should take that on the chin and keep quiet. If he makes too many waves the sneaky test session may yet bite him too.

291

Martin Whitmarsh: "So, yes, his penalty was frustrating for Lewis, frustrating for us, and ultimately I suppose you’d have to say it was frustrating for the spectators, at the track and in front of their TV screens, too. But, as I say, you have to accept these things and move on." Is he joking? What does he exactly mean? A harder punishment for Lewis' overtaking the SC, or simply what happend (no penalty at all)?

292

This is the sort of twaddle that only McLaren could come up with.

293

No, he means we were denied a battle for first place between Vettel and Hamilton.

You lot are really making a meal out of this safety car thing. It was a 50/50 situation that happened in the blink of an eye. A harsher penalty would have been a real shame as Hamilton was simply caught out by being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

If Lewis had braked and allowed the SC to merge in front of him Alonso would have complained of brake-testing instead.

294

What great conjurer Whitmarsh is!!

Really, he should have his own late night show!! Or give him a seat at UN!!

Common Martin, is better to shout out that to say this kind of bullshit!!

295

Call my naive, but I always thought the idea of a penalty was to penalise a driver/team. This race was yet another F1/FIA farce.

Hamilton loses nothing from his penalty, and 8 of the 10 post race penalties have the same none-effect. Pathetic.

An issue that seems to have been missed completely - due to uproar about the Hamilton overtake I presume - is why was the safety car deployed in the middle of the leaders anyway? That essentially gifted the race to Vettel and destroyed Ferrari's race.

Surely the safety car should pick up the leader. If it misses the leader it should wait until he comes around again.

Ferrari were running a strong 3rd and 4th before the Webber accident, and after they are 9th and 16th through no fault of their own. F1 races should not be decided on good/bad luck of a safety car deployment.

It's time for F1 to look to Nascar for safety car rules - close the pits, get the cars lined up behind the safety car and then open the pits for everyone together. OK the teams second cars would have to queue, but it would be same/fair for every team.

296

There was a dangerous situation on the track, and allowing the drivers to continue to race until the the leader reached the pit exit would have been irresponsible.

297

They are not allowed to race. Whether they are lined up behind the safety car or not they can not overtake. And they are given a delta time, a max speed (min lap time) they can travel at when the safety car is deployed.

The physical safety car is obsolete imo with the delta times - or it should be if the deltas are set correctly. But the clearly are not - Vettel and Hamilton were able to circulate much quicker under the delta time than the Ferraris were behind the safety car - 20-30 seconds quicker from what I saw on the timing screens. That makes no sense to me at all. If the safety car speed is there to control the cars to a safe speed for the marshalls how are the delta time speeds so much quicker?

298

The delta times have to be substantially faster than the safety car can go. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible for the field to close up behind the safety car, which is necessary so that the marshals have the maximum amount of time to clear the track. If everyone just dropped to the delta speed but maintained the gaps between cars, then the whole track would be still be populated with cars and the marshals wouldn't be able to do their work.

299

a complete embarrassment for f1.

hamilton again comes out of controversy completely untouched by (meaningful) penalty.

he should have been outright disqualified for such a severe safety infraction.

300

Had he been 3/4 of a car length further down the track at the safety car line, it would not even have been an infraction of the rules.

It's not like he was about to pile into broken cars and bodies on the track at that point, and he was still under delta-time rules once past the safety car, so would be way off racing speed.

It was not a 'severe safety infraction'. Note also that Alonso was not ticked that he passed the car, but that he slowed down first which prevented him doing the exact same thing.

301

I think someone should have a word in the ear of Alonso.

He is in danger of letting his hatred of Mclaren and Hamilton interfere with his driving .

302

Congrats to Vettel...... Probably the only driver to avoid controversy and craziness today

303

Yes, he seems to be the forgotten man in this thread! He was nursing a damaged gearbox, and paced himself well. He could go faster when necessary, as was evidenced late in the race.

304

if alonso took jump start 12 sec earlier then he won the china race.

305

James...

I think it must be noted the lack of race strategy of Ross Brawn and Mercedes. The Canadian race saw Michael Schumacher running third then pitted though he was on the harder tyres! then they run him on softs for nigh on 30 laps, this race again running third and on harder tyres, theyt pit him, while you can see from Kobayashi that if he staye dout he would have had Button and co behind him and would have had a different race. Where is the strategy? I think myself and alot of other fans are wondering what the heck is happening.. also the fact that Schumacher the man who always could read a race so well and make decisions (ie setup at Spa 1992, Spain 1996, Monaco 1997, Usa 2003 and such) could not think to himself the hards will last X laps I am running third now let me give it a go, Nico has pitted and so let me be different.. It just seems a like something strategicly and tactical from Ross and Schumi is missing.

Alonso!.. Needs to stop his obsession with Hamilton and focus on his own driving, I noticed today that the car changes seemed to suit Massa and he seemed reinvigorated well before the pit stop anyway, pace wise he was with Alonso. But he moans soo much its getting irritating 'Manipulated race' he calls it yet the race he won when his teammate was told to crash he never called that 'Manipulated' so he needs to sort himself out.. I would have LOVED to have heard his radio transmissions when Kobayashi overtook him, I really would!

Ferrari, should really sit him down and get him to focus.. he needs it as I believe he will not go forwards with his current attitude which is alienating him with F1 fans..

While Hamilton congrats, Rubens great race and also Jenson should not have said Germany 1 England 0 as he was a few goals short..

JB

306

Some very good points there. Worth examining more closely

307

James,

I can believe I am asking you to defend the FIA, but I think it is worth your while explaining the chain of events and a time line that lead to Seb passing the SC and Lewis and the rest getting mixed up with it. It is far too easy for us all to sit here and throw our opinions out there. You should devote a column to it. It would be great to be able to show logically what happened. Surely the FIA have no conspiracy or desired outcome, except for the safe running of a GP.

Thanks, Phil.

308

I will look at it in the FX Pro Strategy Briefing early in the week

309

My thoughts exactly on Merc strategy mate

310

The stewards this year are pathetic. And the season is still young, I'm sure that they will provide lot more "excitement" in the remaining races. I kinda miss Maximillian now.

311

I am just wondering if Ross Brawn has lost his tactical abilities? What a horrible strategy choice for Schumacher again?

Not only did they pit Schumacher way too early, he was on the hard tyre and had 3rd position in his pocket and he had Kobayashi behind him to hold up the others. Then to make matters even worse they put him on the soft tyre. Did they not learn from Canada? There was no way he could have gone to the end on the soft tyre from there.

They should have done what Sauber did, at least then a top 6 position would be possible.

No, Ross I think it's time you start eating your midrace banana again, cos quite frankly you just missed a huge opportunity today to salvage something from an miserable weekend.

Mercedes needs to start employ people who can read an f1 race... .

312

I have only the BBC broadcasts to go on, but I do not recall hearing details of exactly who decided what and when for the pit stops in question. Do you *know* these were all team strategy calls versus MSC having a say or no?

313

I think it just shows that his reputation was somewhat overblown; while he might have been slightly better than the others teams, he wasn't working miracles.

Basically, I think he was flattered somewhat by the era. The Brown-Michael partnership was during a period of two horse races, when the guy in third was frequently so far behind he was irrelevant.

With Michael in second, and third place soon more than a pitstop behind, Brawn could creatively throw the dice. If it worked he looked now a genius, if it didn't, he was still in second and it was soon overlooked.

By comparison, the last two years it's been so close between the top three or four teams we almost always see drivers losing four or five positions minimum when coming in to the pits.

314

brawn the same as alonso had lost their mojo. And there is no time machine to get it back.

315

Ditto... but do you not think that Schumacher (I am a lifelong fan) should also be able to give his opinion I mean he has been driving the car must know the durability of th ehard tyres and know that the team are fluffing it pulling me in, same as in Canada when he had hards and a clear track near enough..

The ability to read a race needs to be sorted or ross brawn needs to let norbert haug run the team for the duration of the race so that ross himself can read and make decisions, while Schumacher needs to know that Mercedes is not what ferrari was when he was there with strategy and he needs to use that race instinct and such..

But he could have stayed in 3rd and would actually have been on a very long stint and would have enjoyed a good result.

316

"Webber walked away from the accident, which is sure to raise all kinds of questions about the wisdom of rules to encourage overtaking by increasing speed differentials between cars."

I truly TRULY hope that we won’t end up with 'sanitised F1' where cars are deliberately frustrated from overtaking by the rules. The accident looked (to me) to be caused by Webber getting into a tow (and the Lotus’s braking zone) too close to the corner – I suspect Webber was anticipating darting down the side of Heiki by outbraking him but misjudged the slower cars braking point.

Hats off to the FIA for the safety of F1 cars mind – watching it live I feared the worst!!

317

Speed channel didnt relay the GP live and had to rely on BBC for todays race.

Schumi is absolutely right about the commentators.Two of the gems that came out today were

David"BS"Coulthard saying that there was no competition between the Lotus and Redbull so Heikki should have given way.WTF.They were fighting for position and if fastest car should be given way,why the heck conduct the race at all.Hand over the trophy to the fastest team then.

Again during later part of the race Michael set the fastest lap and what do we have here.The genius commentary team going gaga over Nico who fuel adjusted was the fastest in Canadian GP.Excuse me arent we on Valencia now?

Lady luck for sure need to smile a bit on Michael.She seems to have deserted him completely on his comeback.Why the heck did the pitlane show red lights?It was clearly obvious from Schumi's onboard camera to see the SC go by and then there was wait before the train followed.Schumi's race was spoilt by that.

318

Right...so this means that the risk of getting heavily penalised for breaking the rules are pretty small, so lets all overtake the safety car and speed behind it, because the worst that will happen is that you will get a drive-through 20 laps later or a 5 second penalty afterwards! The FIA has just set a precedent, so they cannot go worse than this in future now!

319

They've set a precedent for a driver passing the SC a couple of metres after it's past the SC line while still within the pit-lane lines.

320

Look at all these Alonso fans going crazy, hehe, love it. If Alonso did the same as Hamilton they would all be defending it.

Question to them; why couldn't Alonso in a Ferrari pass Buemi in a Torro Rosso? That is a champion? Whining like a little girl in the car and after the race, obsessed about Hamilton this Hamilton that? Lol.

9th/8th was the maximum he could get with his sulky whining like a little kid.

Kobayashi is the driver of the day for sure. His last lap, overtaking 2 cars, showed a master at work, one with balls.

321

With fresh tyres,and yes he did make light work passing FA and SB, both on tyres which had completed about 50 laps.

322

agree. Alonso was like him in 2005, but now he is a shadow of his former self. Get ready to change or move over, you are not making good use of a fast car. May be kovy could do better.

323

uhhh he was the fastest car on track before the SC came out!

and i agree with stephen fresh tires and the same engine don't compare to tyres that have done 50 laps lol

324