Comments on: Getting rid of aero in F1 – the counterargument

By: What’s the story on overtaking? « Kate on F1

What’s the story on overtaking? « Kate on F1 — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:22:22 +0000

[...] Dernie, former aerodynamicist for Lotus and Toyota (among many others) recently wrote an impassioned defence of human error – also known as the counter-argument to getting rid of aero in F1 – for James [...]

By: Following the Storm « The Formula 1 and Motorsports Archive

Following the Storm « The Formula 1 and Motorsports Archive — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:02:34 +0000

[...] the banning of the controversial double-diffuser from 2011. On James Allen’s blog last week, he received “a note” from former Williams and Toyota aerodynamacist Frank Dernie about the aero problem and while Dernie made some valid points about the reduction of aerodynamic [...]

By: Stuart

Stuart — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:02:10 +0000

Have you never heard of a manual shift sequential gearbox.These gearboxes are in common use in many forms of motor racing.You cannot miss a gear,and with seamless shift technology clutchless changes both up and down are simple.

By: Encouraging overtaking «

Encouraging overtaking « — Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:21:07 +0000

[...] the races and overtaking of the 1980’s, and initially this all sounds reasonable but http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/getting-rid-of-aero-in-f1-the-counterargument/ does give another angle to the argument -manual gearboxes & harder tyres …no seriously, [...]

By: David Jerromes

David Jerromes — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 06:47:58 +0000

Like many contributors on this site I’ve been banging on about reducing aero and increasing mechanical grip.

Mr.Dernie still holds his hand firmly in the air for the aero camp, I respect his experience and opinion, but still think he’s wrong.

Interesting comments from Rubens published today on the ITV F1 website….
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48021

Rubens blames the lack of overtaking on the narrower tyres…

“”The fact that we had better racing last year was because we dropped the ugly grooved tyres for slicks.

“That’s what we need – we need more mechanical grip on the car and to lose the aerodynamics.

“We’re losing aerodynamics all the time, but if you follow another car you just understeer off the track.

“Unless you have a second advantage, which is not the normal thing, you just can’t pass.

“I overtook [Sebastien] Buemi on the track but I was doing 2m01s, he was doing 2m04s, and it wasn’t easy overtaking.”

Comments anyone, Mr.Dernie, James?

By: Juha

Juha — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:10:15 +0000

Of course FD wants to keep his job. But if he was correct (not meaning he doesn’t know what he is speaking but what he is trying to make you believe)then there would be no overtaking in karting.
It is as simple as that.

So the correct answer is to get rid of the aero -> you will need tires with more forgiving slipcurve to be able to drive the car at all -> more lively cars and wider racing line -> more places to overtake and tirewear would mean a lot (save tires, gain places in the end etc)

Of course F1 needs to be the fastest there is -> introduce free engine restrictions (don’t worry the limited grip on tires will automatically lower the cornering speeds so it would actually be safer than now). More power would be harder to control and that would yield more mistakes and overtaking chances etc etc.

Also the money would be such a big issue as the wind tunnels would be obsolete

What do you think?

By: Nick

Nick — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:41:31 +0000

how about just a “button” that would allow to set another max of engine rpm, say 21000 for some time? Of course the numbers to be limited as well, i would propose to have it only 3 times, so a pilot should use it for the attack, not for the defending.
And moreover nobody knows if someone behind you turn on that button or not …

By: Bren

Bren — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:07:10 +0000

I disagree with Mr. Dernie. Harder tires may help but are not the main problem. As many have stated above, the aerodynamic wake is the problem. Cars cannot get close enough to even attempt an overtake. My solution would be for the teams to be given standard front and back wings that make it easy to follow the car in front which would dramatically improve overtaking. I would allow teams almost free development on engines/kers/gearbox/suspensions. The millions that are spent each year on aero development each yera do noting to improve the racing and do nothing to improve technology for road cars. If teams were allowed to develop the mechanical side of the car there would be huge trickle down improvements to road car technology which would make it more attractive for car manufactures to get involved and would be more interesting for fan. Look at KERS for example, Ferrari have already put it on a road car and Porsche have bought Williams KERS technology.

By: Tim Wong

Tim Wong — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:06:40 +0000

This is by far the best idea offered. I’m with you on this 100% mate! : )

By: Bluem

Bluem — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:17:50 +0000

Spa and Montreal are always great too. I kinda miss the old Hockenheim layout. Silverstone would be fantastic if it had a bit more overtaking, hopefully the new changes will help.
Favourite tracks – Spa, Montreal, Interlagos, Suzuka and Monza. Turkey and Silverstone are okay too.
Tracks I miss are the original Hockenheim and perhaps Adelaide (best street circuit) and also the original Kyalami track (South Africa, either 70s or 80s).